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Robin Goffman is all in on Designing Brand Identity

How Brands Are Built

Fri Nov 14 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Robin Goffman Is All In on Designing Brand Identity”

How Brands Are Built | Host: Rob Meyerson | Guest: Robin Goffman
Date: November 14, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Rob Meyerson sits down with Robin Goffman, a branding and design strategist known for her key role in multiple editions of Designing Brand Identity (DBI), the iconic book by Alina Wheeler. The discussion focuses on Robin’s winding path into design, the nuts and bolts of book design (with special emphasis on DBI), insights from her work with branding legend Alina Wheeler, and what it really means to work as both a designer and strategist. The episode is a deep dive into career journeys, design education, and the craftsmanship required to produce a major branding reference manual.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining ‘Creative Strategist’

Robin’s Evolving Title: Robin shares her struggle with professional labels, explaining why "creative strategist" resonates with her more than just "designer" or "graphic designer".
- “Sometimes I feel like I only do design 50% of the time and the other 50% is brainstorming, creative ideation, thinking about… how we can use design to connect to the greater strategy, listening.”
  (Robin, 03:08)
The dual role is influenced both by being independent and having a hard time "staying in her lane," enjoying involvement across tactics and strategy.

2. Robin’s Path Into Design

Family Influence and Early Experience: Robin credits her sister, who started Edge Magazine in high school, for launching her design journey.
- “I wouldn’t be who I am or where I am without my sister. And she sort of chose this career for me…”
  (Robin, 05:21)
She learned Adobe programs from a local university student tutor as a young teen, leading to her early foray into practical design work.
Temple University’s Unique Fit:
Robin sought a program combining creativity with business/strategy—the art direction track in Temple University’s advertising program was the perfect match.

3. On Formal vs. Informal Design Education

Robin sees value in both routes: formal education provides networking and structure, while self-teaching and informal learning (like YouTube/Instagram tutorials) is vital for ongoing skills.
- “I think especially in today’s world, there’s no getting by without a little bit of the informal.”
  (Robin, 12:02)
Networking was a key benefit of Robin’s college experience.

4. Getting Involved with Designing Brand Identity

Through her professor, Kathy Mueller, Robin became Alina Wheeler’s assistant on DBI's 5th edition while still in college.
On Not Knowing What to Expect:
- “My mom’s favorite story to tell is after I left [the interview], I called her and I was like, I have no idea what the job is, but I got it and I’m so excited.”
  (Robin, 14:21)
Working closely with Alina was like a masterclass, and Robin observed firsthand how an independent designer runs a business.

5. Transition to Freelancing and Studio RBG

Robin’s freelance work for Kathy Mueller and then Alina lifted the curtain on working for oneself. She stayed on with DBI before taking a full-time job with a tech startup.

6. Behind the Scenes of Book Design

DBI is a massive logistical endeavor—over 300 pages, two-page spreads, images to source, and permissions to obtain.
- “We have to get permissions for every single image that is in this over 300-page book. And that is a beast…”
  (Robin, 21:05)
The Challenges:
Image permissions and file organization are uniquely challenging for book projects.
The Rewards:
The chance to connect with admired agencies, experts, and contributors is a highlight (“those conversations are the best part of working on it,” Rob, 23:50).

7. Book vs. Other Design Work

Rhythm, Pacing, and Curation:
Book design is about cumulative effect: rhythm, negative space, and how all decisions add up to a seamless experience.
- “It’s almost more about the accumulation of all the small and very thoughtful details that went into it…”
  (Robin, 30:05)
Grids & Constraints:
Structural systems (like a rigorous grid) help manage consistency and decision-making across hundreds of pages; editing and curation are essential.
Tools of the Trade:
InDesign is the go-to (“the layout tool”), with PowerPoint joked about as a (bad) alternative. Global changes and file organization are easier in InDesign.

8. Partnership & Workflow

Rob and Robin’s process involved crude slide-based mockups (Rob) refined into final pages (Robin), reflecting their need for both visual and textual structure.
- “I needed to see the text is going to go here. And I can’t even tell you exactly why…I just needed a tether to reality.”
  (Rob, 43:54)
The balance of curation, writing, and page layout is different from traditional publishing, far more collaborative and iterative.

9. Learning from Alina Wheeler: Philosophy & Legacy

Alina’s Impact:
Both Robin and Rob emphasize how Alina inspired belief and passion without force or agenda—her energy was “contagious,” and being around her made others want to care as deeply.
- “She made people believe in things…She made you just—people believe in the things that she was passionate about. She made you believe in just the idea of being passionate about things.”
  (Robin, 50:13)
Even with Alina’s passing, her lessons on passion, energy, and leadership-by-example remain central to both Robin and Rob’s work.

10. Advice & Takeaways for Designers

Pursue what feels right for your skills—find the intersections between design, strategy, and your own interests.
Harness both formal and informal learning.
Be intentional about passion; surround yourself (and others) with contagious enthusiasm.
Recognize the power of mentorship, networking, and the value of projects that are as challenging as they are rewarding.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Being a ‘Creative Strategist’:
“It often just feels like it’s not just design.”
(Robin, 03:08)
On the DBI Book Permissions Process:
“We have to get permissions for every single image that is in this over 300-page book. And that is a beast to…work on.”
(Robin, 21:05)
On Alina Wheeler’s Influence:
“She made you just—people believe in the things that she was passionate about. She made you believe in just the idea of being passionate about things.”
(Robin, 50:13)
On Passion:
“Not just for yourself, believe in things and again, like, want to and be excited to, but also to just bring that contagious energy to other people too…”
(Robin, 51:51)

Timestamps for Important Segments

03:08 – Robin explains why “creative strategist” is her chosen title
05:21 – Robin’s early design journey, thanks to her sister’s high school magazine
09:26 – 12:02 – Discussion on formal vs. informal education in design
13:08 – How Robin got involved with Designing Brand Identity
19:12 – 23:50 – The highs and lows of working on a book: logistics, permissions, and networking
30:05 – The importance of details, rhythm, and curation in book design
34:59 – 36:00 – Technical aspects: InDesign, grids, global changes
43:54 – 44:47 – How the collaborative author/designer workflow played out in practice
50:13 – Robin sums up Alina Wheeler’s mentoring magic and legacy

Closing Reflections

Robin’s story provides a close-up look at the paths designers can take into branding and publishing. The episode is a behind-the-scenes look at the real work of building a major design reference—equal parts tedious, exhilarating, collaborative, and, ultimately, deeply rewarding. Throughout, the spirit of mentorship, multidisciplinary thinking, and the power of passion shine through.

For more on Robin’s work:
robingaufman.com
For information on the book:
DBIBook.com

Summary compiled and formatted for clarity and completeness by an expert podcast summarizer. For questions or follow-up, visit the official “How Brands Are Built” website.

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Transcript

A (0:09)

Welcome to How Brands Are Built, where branding professionals get into the details of what they do and how they do it. I'm your host Rob Meyerson. Thanks for listening. This episode of How Brands Are Built is brought to you by Tracksuit Want always on Brand metrics to deliver value to stakeholders. Tracksuit is a beautiful, affordable and always on brand tracking tool that helps consumer, market and agencies answer the question is what we're doing working? Check them out@gotracksuit.com Today's guest is my friend Robin Goffman. Robin is a brand thinker and design strategist through Studio rbg. She provides services including brand development, graphic design and web design. And for over six years she's been involved with Designing Brand Identity, Alina Wheeler's iconic branding book. That, of course, is how I met Robin. One of the first things Alina did after asking me to co author the sixth edition of the book was introduced me to Robin, who'd been instrumental in the creation of the fifth edition. Partnering with Robin on the sixth edition was a joy. Not only did Robin lay out every page of the book, she also helped keep things organized, served as a second pair of eyes on text and more. I wanted to talk to Robin for two main reasons. First off, to get her perspective on starting a career in design and branding, the path she took and what she's learned along the way. Second, to learn more about the kind of design work she does, including book design, which is not something we've talked about on this podcast before. Robin is such a delight to talk to. I always have fun chatting with her and I think you'll enjoy this conversation as well. Here it is. Robin Goffman, thank you so much for joining on How Brands Are Built.

B (1:56)

Thanks for having me.

A (1:57)

I'm excited to finally have you on the show. I've been trying to get you on the show for a while, so thanks for making time in your busy schedule.

B (2:05)

Let's just be clear like it hasn't happened yet for a million reasons, but me being too busy popular is not my fault.

A (2:13)

But I have been wanting to chat with you about designing brand identity that we partnered on to create with Alina Wheeler for two years. I think it took us about for this sixth edition and I know you had worked on previous editions as well. So we want to talk a lot about the book, about Alina and then I also, just because I rarely have designers on the show at all to be honest, want to talk to you a little bit about your career including Designing Brand Identity, but also outside of that Sort of how you got to where you are and a couple of questions along those lines. So just to get us started, I was looking at your website in preparation for this conversation and I saw that you describe yourself there as a creative strategist. I'm sure some thought went into that. Can you talk a little bit about how you chose that and why you use that as opposed to something like designer or graphic designer or something along those lines?

A (36:52)

Yeah. As an author, having those constraints is actually really relieving. And the fact that every topic and every case study is just a two page spread in this book meant. Yeah, it forces you. So sometimes it's sad because to your point, you know, there are 10 incredible images and we can only fit three or maybe we can squeeze in a fourth somehow. But the squeezing in starts to really cut into to like the just attractiveness of the page and therefore the book. So there's always that trade off. But at the end of the day it was kind of nice to know like the word count has to be a little shorter and the images, you know, we can only choose this many. And you know, of these six quotes, we're just going to pick the two best ones. It allows you to feel like a lot of working on this book with Alina, it's like it's curation almost more than it is writing. And that's why, I mean this book compared to, I might have said this already, but compared to my first book about naming were just like light years apart. Right. I mean the naming book is like a brain dump of stuff that I already pretty much knew. And yeah, I had to maybe do some research or, or you know, things like that as I was working on it. But it's just kind of me talking into a book, whereas this one is me collecting information and case studies and talking to people who are experts in topics. And then sometimes they would write things and I would edit it. Sometimes I would write something and they would edit it. Sometimes, you know, Alina had already written it and we're really just kind of tweaking it so it has just such an incredibly different experience. And then obviously this book is so much more visual as well. So it was great having you as a partner on it because I know I do. I do a lot of design stuff. I work with a lot of designers, so I feel like I have a. An eye for it, but I don't really want to be on the hook for the decisions because, like, that's where I'm like, I just want a designer to say, this is how this should look, because I'm not confident in making some of those decisions. I. I can react maybe to two different options, but looking at a blank page is very daunting and just kind of having a sense of how it could be laid out, especially when it doesn't, because sometimes you're not fitting things super neatly into a template. It's sort of a new look for a page and it needs to feel similar enough to the rest of the book, even if it's breaking the grid somehow or it's sort of using it in a way that hasn't been used before. So, yeah, having you and Alina with her obvious, you know, expert eye on it, I, you know, couldn't have even thought about doing this without your help.

A (44:47)

Yeah. I've worked with a lot of great designers who will drop in headlines and stuff and sometimes it's like, oh, that's better than what I would have come up with. Let's just keep that. Yeah. Other times it's pretty much just Lorem Ipsum and. And you gotta, gotta change it. I don't know. I mean, I don't know what I expected diving into this book. And I can't remember now sort of what was a surprise and what wasn't. I knew it was pretty daunting. Just the size of it. Not only the size of it, but also the sort of responsibility of stewarding this masterpiece of design and Branding and not wanting to be the co author who came in and ruined it, but actually improved it or at least maintained the quality that people had come to expect of this book that's been around for 20 years. So there was that sort of dread aspect of it. I don't know that I thought as much about what the day to day would be like until we were kind of in it. But I very quickly realized that this was. I think I've maybe had a little bit of not overconfidence but like a thinking that, well, I wrote one book, so yes, this is bigger and different in a lot of ways. But. But really having written one book almost didn't connect to this at all because like I said, it's so different except for having just basic working practices of like, okay, in order to get this massive thing done by X date, we need to do this number of pages on average every week. And you were great working with me on that and having all kinds of things like spreadsheets about this page is going to change and we're going to move pages. So I mean overall it was like exactly the kind of project that I think you want in your career, which is really challenging but also really rewarding and fun at the same time. And of course sometimes it feels more challenging than fun. It's easy to look back on it and feel like it was a lot more fun than it was challenging. But you know, in the day to day I'm sure it wasn't all the time. But yeah, the, the rewards of like getting to know you and work with you, getting so close with Alina, having that opportunity, but also the dozens of people that we reached out to for case studies or insights, some of whom I knew, but this gave me an excuse to kind of contact them. Others I had never heard of. All of that was just so amazing for someone who spent about 20 years now working in the branding industry to really be able to kind of dive so deeply into it in such a different way. I didn't think this going in but you know, a really important part of my career I think I imagine always will be like a sort of a huge. I don't know, I'm glad, I'm glad I did it. It was more of a sort of deep experience than I expected it to be. I knew it was going to be a lot of work, but I didn't necessarily expect it to have the impact on it on me that it did. So yeah, it was great to get to work on it and maybe there'll be A seventh. Maybe there'll be more. I don't look forward to having to dive back into it. And I certainly don't think. I mean, this book is a year old as we're talking now, so it's got a long shelf life, literally. But, yeah, we'll see if it feels like a seventh is due or as Alina told me when I talked to her on the podcast years ago, it's not really up to us. It's partly up to the publisher. So we'll see if Wiley reaches out to us and says, hey, do you guys want to do a seventh? Yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens.