In Memory of Avaryl Halley (Shadow in the Cloud Matinee)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How Did This Get Made?" – In Memory of Avaryl Halley / Shadow in the Cloud Matinee

Date: November 4, 2025
Hosts: Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, Jason Mantzoukas
Episode Theme: Tribute to Avaryl Halley & A Comedic Deep Dive Into "Shadow in the Cloud"

---

Episode Overview

This poignant matinee episode serves a dual purpose:

• To commemorate the life, legacy, and humor of Avaryl Halley, the podcast’s super producer and secret weapon, who passed away after a battle with breast cancer.
• To analyze (and gently skewer) the 2020 WWII gremlin-action-fantasy movie "Shadow in the Cloud," staying true to the show's mission of celebrating the best of the worst films.

The episode balances heartfelt eulogies with characteristic banter and incisive movie breakdowns, embodying the fabric Avaryl wove into the show.

---

Remembering Avaryl Halley (00:30–15:04)

Tribute by Paul Scheer

• Paul announces Avaryl's passing after a year-and-a-half battle with breast cancer, emphasizing the outpouring of love from the show’s community and her pivotal, mostly behind-the-scenes role on the podcast.
• Avaryl’s unique impact: Since 2013, she’s been the gatekeeper for movie selection, shaping the show’s distinctive brand of “fun-bad” films. Paul shares anecdotes about her sharp eye and humorous rejections ("Never doubt Avaryl").
• Personal moments: Paul recalls Avaryl’s visit backstage in London, gifting his children special coins, and the warmth and humor she brought to everyone.
• Avaryl’s taste: Renowned for her love of “camp” and specific comedic oddness, she also co-hosted her own show (“Movie Bitches”), introducing the HDTGM team to hidden gems and developing a strong resilience and positivity as her illness progressed.
• Her legacy: The team resolves to keep her spirit alive in every episode and encourages listeners to check out Movie Bitches for more of Avaryl’s voice and perspective.

  “She set a guiding light for us... This loss is massive. It really is.” – Paul Scheer (10:37)

Avaryl in Her Own Words (15:04-17:23)

• Clip from Movie Bitches: Avaryl and Andrew discuss "Shadow in the Cloud" with enthusiasm and wit, illustrating her signature analytical humor:

  “I laughed so hard I cried, had a headache, felt nauseous, laughed some more... This is pure madness.” – Avaryl (15:04)
  “I think this is my favorite piece of hot garbage this year. It was some Gods of Egypt level nonsense with a lot of style.” – Andrew/Avaryl (15:36)

---

Signature Avaryl Mashup (Harry Hole) [11:25–12:01]

A snippet of Avaryl’s signature video mashups is played—a “Harry Hole” montage from The Snowman episode, beloved by live audiences for its absurdity and timing.

---

“Shadow in the Cloud” Matinee: Panel Discussion and Breakdown

First Impressions (20:12–21:41)

• Paul: Frames the basic plot: WWII, woman boarding a plane with a mysterious package.
• Jason: Immediately references the film’s tonal whiplash and the closed-captioning surprise of “Gremlin: Screeches.”

  “Whoa. This was some wild stuff... I was not prepared for it to say Gremlin: colon screeches.” – Jason (20:59)

• June: Surprisingly enjoyed the film, praising its ability to hold her attention, while noting the absence of gremlin origin explanation.

  “This was one of the rare movies that got my attention and kept it.” – June (21:41)

Plot and Style Deconstruction (21:44–34:52)

• Lack of Gremlin Explanation:

  “Not only did they never explain why and how, there were gremlins aboard the plane, the people on the plane seemed uninterested. Unfazed.” – Jason (21:58)

• Animated Opening & Gremlin Lore:
  • Paul explains the origin of the “gremlin” myth among WWII pilots (22:22), referencing Private Snafu cartoons and the idea of blaming mishaps on mischievous creatures (22:51), which is foundational to both the film and discussion.
• Structural Critique:
  • They marvel at how the first 30+ minutes are just Chloe Grace Moretz in a gun turret, talking to disembodied (often misogynist) men.
  • Jason and Paul compare this setup to “pandemic movies,” citing how little ensemble interaction happens.
  • Notable Quote:

    “I thought that was gonna be the whole movie... You’re alone, you’ll shoot the whole thing in this little rig.” – Jason (28:02)

  • The synthy, John Carpenter-inspired score is debated: June loves it; Paul and Jason find its period incongruity odd. (28:55)
• Misogyny As Horror:
  • Avaryl (via Movie Bitches) and June both highlight that the movie’s central horror is the men’s chauvinism, turning a genre expectation on its head (16:08, 32:47).

Absurdity and Stakes (32:07–42:51)

• Impossible Feats and Over-the-Top Action:
  • Panelists struggle to suspend disbelief as the protagonist survives outlandish scenarios (free-soloing a WWII bomber, being blown back into a hole by an explosion), joking about her indestructible, “Terminator” status.

  “She’s indestructible because she does some shit here... She gets blown... The Japanese plane below her explodes and its explosion rockets her back up and into the hole she came out of.” – Jason (39:05)

• Gremlins as Symbolism:
  • Jason argues (33:52) the film conflates literal monsters with the figurative ones of toxic masculinity, although the execution is “clumsy.”

  “There are monsters of all sorts... literal monsters and the figurative monsters of toxic masculinity.” – Jason (33:52)

• Wishful Reimagining:
  • Several joke about more coherent or satisfying versions:
    • The men are actually gremlins (“a special crew”).
    • The protagonist is a secret gremlin hunter.

    “I wanted her to be a spy... and she snuck aboard this plane because she knew there were gremlins.” – Jason (74:55)

Ensemble, Geography, and Budget (43:13–54:07)

• Disconnection from Supporting Cast:
  • The crew feels anonymous, with most interaction as voices on radio; this diminishes emotional stakes and makes twists (baby’s parentage reveal, ensemble deaths) less impactful.
• Budget & Pandemic Production History:
  • June and Jason theorize about the film’s one-woman-show structure being a product of pandemic constraints; the $10 million budget seems surprisingly high given its minimal cast interaction.

Thematic Questions & Plot Holes (56:08–67:57)

• Layered Stakes:
  • The panel jokes about the “hat on a hat on a hat” premise: Gremlins + dogfight + misogynist men + secret baby.

    “It’s a hat on a hat on a hat. Right. It’s not just, I have to protect my baby. It’s, I also have to fly and land this plane. It’s also, I have to fight these gremlins.” – Jason (50:04)

• Narrative Confusion and Missed Opportunities:
  • They wish for a better sense of gremlins’ motives, origins, and impact—especially since the film spends so much time not addressing them.

    “A movie that has Gremlins in it and have it not re- have none of the main characters really be like, what the fuck is up with these Gremlins?” – Jason (57:21)

  • Hilarious discussion on the improbability of the baby surviving, the lack of air holes in the box, and how the protagonist manages action scenes physically and logistically.

Gremlins Lore and Real WWII Context (69:08–73:15)

• Twilight Zone and Roald Dahl:

  • Jason (69:10) brings up the “Nightmare at 20,000 Feet” Twilight Zone episode.
  • Paul (69:51) reveals “gremlins” were indeed a WWII-era pilot myth (clarified at 71:14), popularized by Roald Dahl (the term precedes the famous Joe Dante movie), used as a kind of scapegoat for malfunctions.

  “They chose to, like, take that and make it like an actual thing, like, oh, an actual gremlin.” – Jason (72:12)

• Symbolic Victory:

  • June muses (73:15) that in the film’s logic, the protagonist triumphs over mechanical (gremlin) problems, enemy fire, and her crew’s incompetence, cementing her as the real “hero.”

---

Funniest / Most Memorable Moments & One-Liners

• On Gremlins Not Being a Big Deal:

  “The men in the movie seem more... furious they are more engaged on an emotional level with the fact that there is a woman on their plane. More so than gremlins.” – Jason (40:06)

• On the one-dimensional men:

  “It was actually really refreshing... there were so many one dimensional male characters, that you were like, I can’t wait for them to die.” – Avaryl, via Movie Bitches (18:04)

• On Chloe Grace Moretz and suspension of disbelief:

  “She is like Rambo is a good example... she’s adept and a badass in all way shape and form, including giving her baby nourishment with her boobs.” – Jason (77:00)

• On the ending and real WWII footage:

  “It is also confusing because, like League of Their Own, I want to see the women playing baseball. This is... This is a Rambo story. But to put real people there, I’m like, it is a little weird... it’s cool, but wait, what?” – Paul (79:04)

• On the 80s synth score:

  “I love a synth 40s movie. I was like, okay, interesting.” – Jason (28:55)

• Running “Gremless” joke:

  “You wanted Gremless” – June (56:48)
  “That’s the shirt.” – Paul (56:49)

---

Audience & Critical Response (80:10–83:40)

• Third Opinions:
  • Paul reads hilariously negative (and some positive) customer reviews, including one that times Chloe Grace Moretz’s screen absence at only 2.8 seconds and another that posits the script was written by elementary school interns.

---

Final Recommendations & Thoughts (83:05–85:08)

• Would They Recommend It?
  • June: Yes, she genuinely enjoyed it, particularly for its novelty and blend of genres.
  • Jason: In an “absurd way, yes,” appreciating its breakneck pacing and midnight-movie thrill, despite (perhaps because of) its flaws.
  • Paul: The film would shine as a communal, late-night movie screening—a perfect fit for “How Did This Get Made?” fans.

---

Closing Thoughts & Avaryl's Legacy (Throughout)

The episode showcases HDTGM’s ability to blend irreverent, laugh-out-loud movie analysis with heartfelt community-building and personal reflection. Avaryl Halley’s commitment to finding the weird, the wonderful, and the “just-right” kind of awfulness is celebrated not just in the films chosen but in the hilarious, loving spirit that infuses every moment of this show.

“All I can say is, we will miss you, Avaryl. You are forever part of the show... our hearts are broken. But I do think your legacy will live on.” – Paul (14:15)

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• On Avaryl’s role:

  “Never doubt Avril. That’s what I learned working with her.” – Paul (06:42)

• On the movie’s confusion:

  “Not only did they never explain why and how, there were gremlins aboard the plane, the people on the plane seemed uninterested. Unfazed.” – Jason (21:58)

• On gremlins as allegory:

  “There are monsters, literal monsters, and the figurative monsters of toxic masculinity.” – Jason (33:52)

• On Chloe Grace Moretz’s resiliency:

  “She’s indestructible because she does some shit here... She gets blown... The Japanese plane below her explodes and its explosion rockets her back up and into the hole she came out of.” – Jason (39:05)

• On enjoying the chaos:

  “I wonder if we’re just like, are we in a place in time where the world is full of such chaos that even a movie like this, we’re like, yes, thank you. Thank you, movie.” – Jason (84:37)

---

Key Timestamps for Segments

• Tribute to Avaryl Halley: 00:30–15:04
• Signature Avaryl Mashup (Harry Hole): 11:25–12:01
• Movie Bitches “Shadow in the Cloud” Clip: 15:04–17:23
• Panel First Impressions/Plot Recap: 20:12–21:41
• Analysis/Absurdities/Panel Banter: 21:44–73:50
• Audience Reviews (Third Opinions): 80:10–83:40
• Final Thoughts and Recommendations: 83:05–85:08

---

In the Spirit of Avaryl

If you’re interested in more of Avaryl’s tastes and humor, check out Movie Bitches on YouTube and @MovieBitches on Instagram.

---

Summary by [Podcast Summarizer]
Rich, engaging, and balanced for both newcomers and devoted listeners.

Transcript

[June Diane Raphael]

What if you could have reliable and intelligent wi fi at the same price for five years? That's the Xfinity five year price guarantee. No annual contracts, no hidden fees, and our best equipment included. Just five years of WI fi. That boosts speeds to the devices that need them most, that finds and fixes problems before you even notice them, and that keeps you gaming in the fast lane. Lock in your price and unlock the possibilities. Xfinity Imagine that Select plans. Only restrictions apply.

[Paul Scheer]

So the movies we talk about on this podcast all share a certain quality that begs the question, how did this get made? But you know what a great movie is in the eye of the beholder. And whatever movies you're into, you should know that Paramount has a mountain of them. New movies, classic movies. New takes on classic movies. Movies you'll want to talk about with your friends or co hosts. From Top Gun to the Naked Gun and Smurfs to to Sonic the Hedgehog. If you want to catch the latest blockbusters or rewatch the most unforgettable movie moments, there's a mountain of movies to discover on Paramount. Start streaming today. Alienware's biggest sale of the season lets you unleash peak performance at Black Friday savings. Prices start at 899.99 on select Alienware PCs like the groundbreaking Alienware 16 Aurora gaming laptop, taking performance to the next level with Intel Core processors. Plus, you can save on all the latest accessories and displays like the Alienware 32.4K QD OLED gaming monitor. Visit alienware.com deals before these limited time savings end. Hello people of Earth, it is me, Paul Scheer. And before we get into today's matinee Shadow in the Cloud, I wanted to share some devastating news with you. Last Thursday, after a year and a half long battle with breast cancer, we lost our super producer Avril Halley. She was not in pain. She was surrounded by her friends and her family. And since we shared this news on social media, I have been completely and utterly blown away by the absolutely lovely outpouring of love and condolences that you all have given to her, her friends and her family. I've been talking to different members of her friends and family over these last couple of days and I'm just in awe that you all recognize what Avril brought to this show. I'm not good at this. I wish I was someone who could just sit down and speak so eloquently from the heart. But I know that it will be choppy and I just want you to go with me here As I try to just celebrate this remarkable, singularly wonderful person who was such a part of this show. A part that you didn't quite ever hear, as a matter of fact. And I think that's what makes it even more interesting that the reaction to her was so sincere and so connected, because she is the fabric of this show. Back in 2013, we had been doing this podcast for a handful of years, and we. We kept on coming up on this impasse, which was, yeah, that was a bad movie, but it wasn't fun to watch. It felt like a slog. And we had this idea, why don't we reach out to our listeners and see if anyone would want to help us find bad movies? So we got all these submissions in, and I remember Avrils because she was not only a bad movie aficionado, but she was this hilarious editor. She had made these incredibly funny pieces for, like, MTV films. When she sent me her resume, it just jumped off the page. She had this kind of quirky, fun sensibility. And when we first zoomed, and I don't even think there was zoom back then, I think when we first FaceTimed, I was just blown away by the way that she was able to articulate the movies that worked for this show. And since 2013, she has been picking every movie for this show. All these characters, these insane worlds, these movies that I've never heard of came from her. I was always adamant to make sure that we gave her. Her proper due, her proper credit, because she really did control and help us find our own voice of the types of movies that we wanted to talk about here. And she was specific and funny about the specificness of it. I remember I would send her films like, what do you think about this? And she would shoot them down 90% of the time. That's why at a certain point, when people would submit movies to me, I'm like, I can't. I'm not even gonna do it. Because Avril has the secret sauce. And it was never adversarial, but it was like she knew why it wouldn't work. And then conversely, I'd be like, I'm not sure about this movie, and it would work perfectly. Never doubt Avril. That's what I learned working with her. And I just was looking back through our emails because we do have an interesting relationship. You know, she's somebody who was very much a part of my life in the fact that this show is a part of my life, but we had a relationship that was primarily based in emails. And occasionally I Would get to see her, you know, when she was in London, just on a trip, she came backstage and got to meet my kids and Jason and June. And we've met a handful of times in person over the years. But this one was really special because she was away with a friend. Just. She happened to be in Europe. We happened to be there as well. And I watched her interact with my boys, and it was so sweet and so kind and she was so interesting. She had these coins that her dad. Her dad would give coins to people that, you know, as a. Like a remembrance of them. Like, we met and they exchanged coins. I think it's very much like a military thing, right? You. You pass these special coins. And she gave both my sons these coins. And these coins are on our dresser, my kid's dresser, to this day. And I talk to them about Averill this past weekend and that moment, that just small moment that they spent with her, they remembered her and they lit up. When I was asking, do they remember the woman who came backstage and gave them these coins? And she goes, oh, she was so cool. She was so funny. And that, to me, is what is so kind of special about Avril. When I look at the response, the outpouring of love from our audience, you know, as she's been battling this cancer. When we first announced it, we had known about it for a while, but when we were first brought it to you, all the amount of gifts and emails that you sent to her were just overwhelming. I mean, not even just overwhelming. They were so heartfelt. And I'm reading people's messages, condolence messages to her and her family, and I'm just blown away because she is a person who you may not have ever even heard on the microphone, on how did this get made? But she is such a part of this show. She had her own show, Movie Bitches, which she co hosted with Andrew. And Andrew and I have been in touch over the last year. Most more and more as Avril was battling cancer. And I'm just blown away by the work that she did there too. Her show is really funny. She's always been very funny, and she opened us up to so many interesting things. I'm so thankful for her. And this loss is massive. It really is. You know, she was young, and when I talked to her when she first was diagnosed with breast cancer, her attitude was so incredibly positive and resilient. And as it progressed, there were highs and there were lows, and we've just been rooting her on and championing her, and I just Want you to know that talking to Andrew, her partner on Movie Bitches, and talking to certain members of her family, they are so blown away by your support of her. You know, she made a big difference. She was someone who I think made this show. She set a guiding light for us. And when we first had to start picking movies without her, I had this voice in my head of, how do we do this? Like Avril, how do we know that this is right? And it's something that we all take incredibly seriously. Because Avril took it seriously. She was a lover of camp. She was a lover of a certain type of specific oddness. And she was full of life and love and had this amazing laugh every time I got to spend time with her. I was so thankful that she was a part of the team. And like I said, not a part of the team that I spoke to every single day, but a part of the team that I looked forward to when I got an email from her and I felt bad when she rejected one of the movies that I would give her her eye for. Recognizing what was funny was second to none. And I wanna. I don't know how to celebrate her. I don't. Because there's not one thing I can say, but the show is a tribute to her. It's a testament to her. We will continue to work under her constraints that she has, you know, given us. And one of the things that we do in our live shows is we play these videos, these videos that mashed up certain things from movies that we have done. And she hosted these on Movie Bitches, but sometimes would send me one on the side and I would play it exclusively for our live audiences. And I wanna play this one because I just think it captures her ear. When we were talking about the movie the Snowman, we talked about this character, Harry Hole. And this one is just a mashup of people saying Harry Hole with a very straight face. So enjoy one of Averill's signature mashups, Harry Hole.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Harry Hole. Her husband asked specifically for Inspector Hole.

[Paul Scheer]

This is Harry Holl's farm. Ah, great. Harry Hole.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You can imagine Harry Hall. At least I could. I wanted to see who Harry hall was.

[Paul Scheer]

Could you delve into your Harry Hole.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And this detective Harry Hall.

[Paul Scheer]

The first thing that really enticed me.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Was the books and yo Nesbo's Harry Hole. I started to introduce myself to the books and to yo Nesbo's Harry Hole.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, come on, it doesn't get any better than that. Always kills in front of a live crowd, you know, we're still dealing with this hole, and we have been, you know, for the last two years, dealing with not having her around as much anymore, and I hate it. And we'll continue to deal with her absence as we move forward. And if you want to celebrate her and want to get to know what she was about a little bit more, I implore you to go watch Movie Bitches, her movie reviews on YouTube and go to the Instagram Movie Bitches channel. So I thought another way to continue to show you a little bit more about who Avril was was to kind of show you why her taste was so good. You know, she said at one time that Sleepaway Camp was her favorite bad movie. So maybe that's a good place for you all to start. Watch her review Sleep Boy Camp. And, you know, Andrew is a pretty amazing guy. Her family is wonderful in, like, brief conversations with them. If you want any updates on, you know, services or where you can send anything to, that would be on the Movie Bitches Instagram page. Um, and I want to. Why did I pick Shadow in the Cloud? Well, this is a movie that Avril picked, of course. And what I loved about Avril's picks is she found the things that were interesting. Like, we. I don't know if Shadow in the Cloud was a typical how did this get made movie, but what she saw was, there's so much to talk about in it. And I'd like to show you how she thought about this movie by listening to a snippet of her and Andrew's Movie Bitches episode on Shadow in the Cloud so you can hear her in her element. Also, if you're a RuPaul fan, you're gonna love the Movie Bitches channel. What she did for Drag Race is unmatched. So before we do our matinee, I wanna give the floor back to Avril in her own voice to show why she loves the weird, the campy, the bizarre. And all I can say is, we will miss you, Avril. You are forever part of the show. And everyone, June, Jason, Scott, Molly, Cody, going back to 2013, everyone knew your name, everyone respected your work, and our hearts are broken. But I do think your legacy will live on. This is Avril on Shadow in the Cloud.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Boy, yes, I did film myself watching it because I laughed so hard I cried, had a headache, felt nauseous, laughed some more, cried again. Hours after watching it, was still laughing when I recalled the events of the film. This is pure madness.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Come on, bitch.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

You can do it. Holy shit. I mean, I think this is my favorite piece of hot garbage this year. Year, it was some Gods of Egypt level nonsense with a lot of style.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, boy.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Oh, boy. Okay, so the basic plot, it starts. And. Well, it starts that. There's that. That weird cartoon of like, oh, the Gremlins are gonna get on your ship. And, you know, I was going, is this a prequel to Gremlins, by the way? If it is, I'm here for it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think that was the inspiration, and that's what I'm going. I'm sticking with it, certainly.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

I mean, Gremlins are historical outside of the film, but also here for this. Yes, here for. Oh, yeah. I mean, the speculations of. Well, babies. And we'll get to it. So anyway, Chloe Gerstnertz lies her way onto a B17 fortress. They call it something like a sort of fortress or something. And it starts, and there's a lot of attitude and there's this really great synth John Carpenter kind of soundtrack going on. Chloe Grace Moretz is doing an accent, right? She's got a sassy jumpsuit on. And she gets onto this plane and all of the men are horrific, chauvinistic nightmares. And I was like, oh, that's why this was listed as a horror film, as one of its genres. The only horror in the movie is how realistic the chauvinism is. So there's that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I agree. I think that there's a lot of style to this movie that really makes it. You know, there's kind of like a sky Captain vibe to it. There's like dark and.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, shadow in the cloud, I guess.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But, like.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's like a kind of. It's just very stylized.

[Paul Scheer]

I don't know how.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

It has a feel to it. It feels like someone who is, you know, trying to make a movie. You know, they succeed. They made a movie. It was the funniest comedy that I've seen all year. The first hour, 45, is the horror aspect of the movie. And then it becomes just a screwball comedy. So if you are watching it and going, what the. What the fuck is this? Why did you guys recommend. Just hold on.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just wait.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Just hold on. You gotta. You gotta make it through.

[Paul Scheer]

Hold on to that plane for dear.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Life because she's got a real good grip there.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my God.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

What? So, yes, she. She gets her. Gets onto this plane. She's got a. Like a camera. A leather camera bag thing. This is very important. Top secret General so and so. You know, this is the most important enigma. Secrets of the don't MacGuffin MacGuffin. MacGuffin. And they're all being disgusting. They say, well, if you're gonna get on the plane, the only seat available is in. What do they call that? The turret. Like in the looking. There's a name for it, but like the looking down turret at the bottom. So yes, once she gets down in there the next 35, 40 minutes, it's just her in the turret listening to them. Listening to them to be disgusting. I mean, like disgusting men. Truly horrifying. It was actually really refreshing to watch a movie where there was so many one dimensional male characters that you were like, I can't wait for them to die. It was very like, usually these roles are classified for women. Just like one dimensional ditzes that are gonna be picked off by Jason one by one. And it was just like, ooh, all of these one dimensional men. It was like kind of exciting on some level.

[Paul Scheer]

Again, thank you for sitting with me as I try to get through my own thoughts about Avril. And again, your love and your support means so much to her family and her friends. And they are reading the comments, so please keep them coming. It means the world. Now here's our episode on Shadow in the Cloud and we hope you think of Avril while listening to this and all of our past episodes, the movies that she picked for us. Rest in peace. There are three very important rules. Do not get them wet. Do not feed them after midnight. And most importantly, do not let them steal your baby. It's gremlins on a plane with a baby. We saw Shadow in the Cloud, so you know what that means.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now it's time for.

[Paul Scheer]

Failure.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Not just be a hater. Cuz you know, you wonder how did.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

This.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Find the answer to the question, how did this get made?

[Paul Scheer]

Hello people of Earth and welcome to how did this Get Made? I am your host, Tall John Shear. Each week we take a film, we look at it and ask a simple question, how did it get made? And this week is no different. We are talking about Shadow in the cloud. It's 1942, during World War II. A woman boards a plane with a mysterious package. But I want to say much more than that. Let me bring out my two amazing co hosts, Jason Mantzoukas and June Diane Rayfield. How are you both?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Whoa. This was. This was some wild stuff. This was, this was. You know, I was not prepared, I had closed captioning on I was not prepared for it to say Gremlin. Colon screeches okay, here's June.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, June, your first thoughts on this too. Because I have a couple of things I want to get off my chest here.

[June Diane Raphael]

I. Oh, okay.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

First of all, I enjoyed it, so let me put that over there for a second. I enjoyed it. I guess. What I cannot believe. And I don't know, maybe I missed a part of it. Well, this was one of the rare movies that got my attention and kept it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Whoa, you are blowing my mind right now.

[June Diane Raphael]

Really did. But I guess the question I'm coming back to, you know that at the. When it ended, I was like, did I miss an explanation of where these gremlins came from?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You did not. June. I would like. I would love to tell you that you did.

[Paul Scheer]

You.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You did not. Not only did they never explain why and how, there were gremlins aboard the plane, the people on the plane seemed uninterested. Unfazed. Unfazed. Uninterested in examining the where, the why, the how of the gremlins. Listen, I understand we're in a dog fight with the enemy. We crash land a plane. But at a certain point, you gotta be like, what the fuck are these gremlins?

[Paul Scheer]

You know, the movie opens up with this, like, animated segment based on these, like, Private Snafu, which is like a series of, like, not PSAs, but, like, soldier safety videos that they made during World War II. And there was this idea that, like, who did this? Oh, a gremlin did it. Like. Or, like, there was, like, this idea of a gremlin was kind of like in Family Circus. Like, not me.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, right. Yeah. That wasn't my fault. That was a gremlin. A gremlin.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. Everyone's heard of gremlin.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Screw up the navigation. They get their kicks from hurting us. Gremlins are all in your hands. We owe it to our boys to stay focused. It's not critters who cause accidents. It's careless airmen. It's your responsibility to be safe. A tidy workspace makes for a productive environment. Shape up. We need men with strong hearts and clear minds. Look after yourself to stay fighting fit. Stay on task, avoid distraction, and keep your wits about you. Let's keep our skies safe so we can win this war immediately.

[Paul Scheer]

I go, wait a second. Is this movie gonna be about a real life fucking gremlin? Like, that was when I was like, oh, I don't know what we're in store for here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because, by the way, I would have been on board for, like, if the movie concerned itself entirely with what's up with these gremlins. Where are these gremlins coming from we're under siege. Not only outside the plane from the enemy, but inside the plane from gremlins. But they seem the gremlins are like the sea story of this movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

I think, like, I was more interested. I was very interested in the other movie, the A and B story, which was, you know, about a woman in combat who's a fighter who. Who knows what's going on and is in this position and stuck in there. And even the baby. I mean, I knew the baby was in the box from the first moment we saw the box, but I did.

[Paul Scheer]

Not know a baby was in the box. I thought a gremlin was in the box. I thought she was transporting gremlins.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I assumed whatever was in the box had to do with the gremlins. It seemed like she purposefully got.

[June Diane Raphael]

A baby was in the box from the jump.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's interesting to me. It seemed like that box is very. She's getting on the gremlin plane for a reason. That must be the. This. That's what's up, you know, I don't know.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, that. But see, that movie, I enjoyed, like, what it must have been like for a woman who, you know, was a pilot in this situation. I was fascinated by that story. I was even into the love story and the romance of it all. What I could not wrap my mind around were the gremlins.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, see, by the way.

[June Diane Raphael]

Gremlins or gremlins.

[Paul Scheer]

Gremlins.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Gremlins. There were at least three.

[Paul Scheer]

I thought there was just one.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, there was at least three that she kills. I did the. She shoots. She shoots one. She beats one to death on the ground. And she. She. There's at least three gremlins.

[Paul Scheer]

I think it's all the same.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And there's a white shoe, a whitish one with wings. And then there are little brown ones that don't have. They have fur, but no wings.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, well, I did watch this on my iPhone. I will tell you this much. I watched it in landscape mode on my iPhone while I ate.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

My God.

[Paul Scheer]

Takeout meal in my kitchen where there is a tv. But I chose.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, strangely, I watched it on my computer. Now, my. Okay, I'll tell you. This is my experience of the movie. I'll be very honest right now. I'm not afraid to be honest about how I watched it. I was planning on watching the movie and, like, cleaning out my closet, which has been a goal for 2022.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I love a double duty. How did this get made? I'm doing a bad movie and a test because then the two hours, thank God, by the way, an hour and 20 minutes. Amazing.

[June Diane Raphael]

It was a nice time, so. But I was so interested that I let go of my task.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, wow. So, for me, the problem. Because I agree with you, June, all of these. All of these movies are interesting potential movies. The movie about the woman who, you know, not sneaks, but, like, falsifies her way onto a plane, woman in combat, in a man's world, all that kind of stuff. The love story with the baby and the blah, blah, blah, and the Gremlin movie. But the problem was, for me, none of them. It didn't commit to any of them. And so I never. I didn't. Unlike you, June, I didn't. I never got pulled into it. I kept being like, well, what about the Gremlins? If there was no Gremlins for a while, or if not, I'd be like, well, what about the baby?

[Paul Scheer]

You know, I'm gonna say something that I think also is a weird thing about this movie, which is you come into it like the first 30 minutes of the film is basically Chloe Grace Moritz alone in the bottom half of an airplane.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like a gun turret bubble.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. Talking to people that we've only seen glimpses of.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The paper said not to open the package. You shouldn't read the bloody paper.

[Paul Scheer]

Staff Sergeant Quaid, open the package. If it's Rygerd, I'll take the heat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sir, I just. Wait.

[Paul Scheer]

That's an order.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Quay, do not open the package. She wasn't lying about the jabs, and she wasn't lying about the Gremlin tenant.

[Paul Scheer]

Finch, retrieve the package from Quaid and open it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sir, do not open the package now.

[Paul Scheer]

Whatever's in that package is what's causing the failures on this plane.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Do not open the packet.

[Paul Scheer]

Wait, I beg you. Don't be dummy here. Please don't do this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I got it.

[Paul Scheer]

I got it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I thought that was gonna be the whole movie that went on for so long that I was like, oh, is this one of. Is this like a pandemic movie where they were like, you. You're alone. You'll shoot the whole thing in this little rig we have. And this is good. This is the movie. You know, I thought it was like.

[Paul Scheer]

A Ryan Reynolds buried Alive, like, coffin movie. And I was like, but it's weird because you want to have this relationship with all these people when she gets out, when. But I haven't put faces and names.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Together, and yet that's why they put that stuff in, where, you know, she would repeat a name, and there would be like this atmospheric shot of that actor and who he is, but it wouldn't. It wouldn't place him in the setting. They must have shot them afterwards. It was just like these red and black. It's got this, like, very kind of 80s John Carpenter vibe score and lighting. It's got, like.

[Paul Scheer]

Which also I didn't love. How incongruous. That scene score.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Very heavy synth score for a night. I love a synth 40s movie. I was like, okay, interesting. But then the stylistic shots of, like, who's that? Is that. What's his name? And then just like an anarchist. I didn't know who she was. I'd be like, I don't know which. Yes, that's what I wrote.

[Paul Scheer]

When she came. Which one is the. Came up?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Who's the father?

[Paul Scheer]

I was like. I'm like, who is who? I don't know. They're all just like. They all are gross dudes. Like, that's the one thing I know. And at one point when. When it's revealed there's one nice guy in the grossos, that's the one that she likes. But the rest is just. It was really hard. It's like. It would be like doing Knives out, but you would. Like, one character was trapped behind a door and like, oh, look at this. You know, this menagerie of characters here. Like, you don't get to meet them until.

[June Diane Raphael]

Here's my question, though. I don't know if, like, we want to bring Devin on to talk about this, but I have some questions about the sound communication.

[Paul Scheer]

Bring him on.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, well, Devin, our engineer, knows everything about World War II radio equipment.

[June Diane Raphael]

So she's down in that special spot that they put her in. Yeah. Now, in order for her to speak, she has to press a button for the sound to get to the rest of the grossos up there. Now, it seems to me that they should probably have to press a button to get on comms to be able to communicate with everyone throughout that.

[Paul Scheer]

Wait a second. Is this what you were gonna ask Devin about, like, the intricacies of B fighter in World War II?

[June Diane Raphael]

Because here's the thing. At certain points, it just seems like she's listening in.

[Paul Scheer]

She is like.

[June Diane Raphael]

She's just listening.

[Paul Scheer]

She listened for too long.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She listens for. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Paul Scheer]

For too long.

[June Diane Raphael]

But when she's listening. But what I'm saying is, like, there are moments where they cannot be pressing a button to speak.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I see. Cause they're all speaking. You mean they're having a conversation.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yes. I agree.

[June Diane Raphael]

Overhearing what's going on.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, that doesn't. I agree that. That, that is strange. I also wondered if you were on comms and your man. Cuz that's. She's in a gun turret, you wouldn't be able to shoot and press the button to talk to people. You'd need to be able to talk freely and say, you know, I'm there at my 6 o' clock or whatever. I'm. You know, you wouldn't be able to shoot and do that. That seemed like a contrivance so that they could shut her out almost when they turn her. When they turn her comm off, you know.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, good news, June. There are literally pages and pages and pages and pages of continuity and military anachronisms listed on IMDb. You can get into all. Yeah. Oh yeah. People got into it. I will tell you this. When I went on a USO tour to Iraq, we were in, you know, we were in these big, you know, these big ships and we were wearing the headsets and you did have to. Everyone had to purchase a button, but you were like a part of the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, that's why you say over, because that means I'm going to let go of the button now. You.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Right.

[June Diane Raphael]

But that's not what was happening. She was just hearing what was going on. But not everything that was going on, but just certain voices.

[Paul Scheer]

She was tuning into Misogyny Radio. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was like. It was like a live podcast of bros. Just like, I got a unit.

[Paul Scheer]

I'll put my thing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The new, like Misogynist.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's. Here's the thing that I liked about. Here's the thing that I liked about the movie and her being down there for as long she was. There was something about it. I was like, okay. I liked the way that things were unfolding. Like, she's down there, she's nervous about the package. Now we're nervous that these guys are going to maybe gang rape her now we're nervous that she's got to survive that. And she's now got to survive like Japanese missiles and now she's going to survive an alien. Like, there were already so much, so.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Many stakes, so, so many worthwhile stakes. We didn't really need the gremlins or we needed all the gremlins.

[June Diane Raphael]

All the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, we're the most of them, you know.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. It's like Mario Lopez in his hair. Give me all the hair or give me none of that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is that right there. I had the Mario Lopez rule of how did this get made I. I.

[Paul Scheer]

Thought the guys were Gremlins.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What?

[Paul Scheer]

So I thought, okay, so when she got into the plane, right, and put her in that lower deck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So, like, they are the. They are the personification of monsters.

[Paul Scheer]

They are essentially like werewolves. Like, get in this hatch. Because we. When we're flying, we become gremlins. Like, we are a special crew. And then I was like, ooh, that's interesting. Like, they don't want to. They don't want to see. You can't see us become the werewolves that, like. So I was building that story. I was like, ooh, there. That's a crew of gremlins. And that's why we got to see that video before, which, by the way, I'm into that movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

I mean, they were. By the way, they weren't new. Not Gremlins.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's what that. I think that's what the. I think that's what the movie is clumsily trying to say is like, there are monsters of all sorts. There are monsters, literal monsters, and the figurative monsters of, like, toxic masculinity, you know, and she has to face. She has to face them all.

[Paul Scheer]

All of them.

[June Diane Raphael]

It did seem like when she first saw this shadow in the cloud that she was. She had maybe seen it before, it seems.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I agree. Yes. I agree so much that that was my head cannon that I started to build is that's why she got on this plane, because what she has is going to combat the gremlins. She's here to get gremlins. And then when she was, like, not when she was, like, surprised, and it turned out she's just trying to escape with her baby, I was like, oh, so she accidentally got on a Gremlin ship, and Gremlin ship is like, a real thing. And the guys don't.

[June Diane Raphael]

They want her baby. The gremlins seem to only want her Gremlins.

[Paul Scheer]

Gremlin wants her baby. And by the way, she's indestructible because she does some shit here. Like, this is the problem.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I have the Gremlin raise the baby.

[Paul Scheer]

Just let the Gremlin raise the baby. Gremlins can be a good debt. Wait, was the dad the gremlin? Did she have sex with? Is that the guy?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I heard her plane crash, and she was raised for six years by Gremlins.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, by the way, I'm Kurt Gremlin. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help your business stand out and succeed online. Every dream needs a domain. Squarespace domain makes it easy to find the best name for your business at one fair, all inclusive price, no hidden fees and add ons required. And with Squarespace's collection of cutting edge design tools, anyone can build a beautiful professional online presence that that perfectly fits their brand or business. Even me. Because what did I do when I needed to start the dinosaur improv website? Well, I got on Squarespace, I looked at some of their award winning website templates and I created something that I would never have been able to conceive without seeing this beautiful template in front of me. It made it fast, it made it easy. And now the drag and drop technology, everything is clean and clear and you can even make it work for the phone and the computer. What are you waiting for? Head to squarespace.com bonkers for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code bonkers to save 10% on your first purchase of a website or domain. So the movies we talk about on this podcast all share a certain quality that begs the question, how did this get made? But you know what a great movie is in the eye of the beholder. And whatever movies you're into, you should know that Paramount has a mountain of them. New movies, classic movies, new takes on classic movies. Movies you'll want to talk about with your friends or co hosts. From Top Gun to the Naked Gun and Smurfs to Sonic the Hedgehog, if you want to catch the latest blockbusters or rewatch the most unforgettable movie moments, there's a mountain of movies to discover on Paramount. Start streaming today. Today's show is brought to you by BetterHelp. You know, I have this friend, old high school friend. I haven't seen them for a while and I just sent them a text just to say hi. And it just brightened their day. I know that because they told me. But more importantly, it brightened my day too. And you know, I think there's a importance in this holiday season to reach out, check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones and remind them that you're there. You know, it just takes a little courage to send that text or grab a coffee with someone you haven't seen in a while. It's kind of that simple step that you can take when you reach out for therapy too. Everybody that I talk to who has been new to therapy are like, why didn't I do this sooner? Clearly people are doing it. I mean, I. With 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is providing the world's largest online therapy platform. And BetterHelp's therapists are fully licensed in the U.S. they do the initial matching work for you so you can actually focus on your goals. And this month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easy to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off your first [e-mail] bonkers. That's betterhelp.com bonkers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The fact that they never made any effort. Nobody seemed shocked. There were gremlins. They kept calling them big rats. They kept calling them big rats. They were human size big rats. What? What are you talking about?

[Paul Scheer]

Big rats that literally took, that took the baby away. Then the baby is hanging very precariously on the outside of the airplane. And again, it's just a box. We don't know the baby. Do we know what baby's at the box? Yeah, at that point, we do.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, we do.

[Paul Scheer]

And she climbs out. Now I'm all for.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She free solos this plane while it's at like 10,000ft.

[Paul Scheer]

I think the plane's going upside down. But meanwhile, later in the, in the movie, when she's got to like, when they're preparing for the crash landing, she's like, oh, my God. I'm like, wait, you just hung on an airplane and like lassoed your baby to you with not even out?

[June Diane Raphael]

And was like pushed back by the.

[Paul Scheer]

She's indestructive. She's a Terminator.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Oh, she gets blown. She falls out of the plane. Literally. And simply. She only survives because the Japanese plane below her explodes and its explosion rockets her back up and into the hole she came out of.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, what. And without a mark on her.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And she again is unfazed. She, if I, if that happened, she, the rest of the movie, she should be like, did you see what just happened to me? I fell out of the plane and was exploded back into it.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, no, this is the problem. This is a movie. And I guess, like, you know, you're in the middle of war, so you don't react to anything because everything is crazy. But no one, the only thing they react to is that the pulling the plane up, that's the only moment of reaction. Even when she faces off against that gremlin in that final fight scene. Fisticuffs in the water.

[June Diane Raphael]

Like, there is no, like, holy shit, there's a gremlin.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Here's what I'll say. The men in the movie seem more upset and emotionally viscerally furious. They are more engaged on an emotional level with the fact that there is a woman on their plane. More so than gremlins.

[June Diane Raphael]

A thousand percent. It shakes them to their core. They're like, we can't do our job.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is she. Is that a real girl? Is that a dame? Is that a real dame? It was like episode of. Of Is that a real Dame? The podcast, like, what is happening? They're so upset about that. But they, they. They don't have a single word for the fact that there are goddamn life size. I mean, human size gremlins on the. That they are insisting on giant rats. What?

[Paul Scheer]

For a movie. For a movie that is only like a brisk 72 minutes or whatever it is. There is missing one scene, right? One scene where they go. Just one. If they give me this one scene and it changes it all where literally they don't believe her. Like, she's like, there's something out there. She fires a gun, she lies to them. I don't understand why she lied to them about firing a gun. I guess because she shouldn't have had a gun, whatever.

[June Diane Raphael]

But baby up there. I mean, she doesn't want them to think she has a gun.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I didn't understand why she's. I think that's true, but I didn't understand that. And I couldn't understand why she put her finger in between the lock to. So that it couldn't get opened. That it's just gonna rip your finger off.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, by the way, I also don't understand why that package couldn't fit on her lap. It seemed like that package was easy enough to fit in the hole for sure. Like, yeah, okay, but. But I guess what I'm missing is when she says, there's something out there, like, you don't know what you're talking about, you dumb dame. And then she's like, no, there's something out there. Like, yeah, you dummy. You know? And then all of a sudden, when they all see it, all you want is like a moment of like, I guess you were right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, no one ever. Like, no one even acknowledges, like, oh, has gone south here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, the version we get is from Taggart, who I think is the Scottish guy who is.

[Paul Scheer]

I like that he's the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's so aggressively misogynistic towards her. And he's. So. He pushes her into the gun turret. He's so like, you know, like. And she come. When she finally does emerge, when she free solos the plane and climbs back in with her baby, she's spent, like now minutes on the exterior of the Plane. She climbs out to the. She gets to the wing. She gets the baby. She climbs back in. He's fighting a gremlin. And he says to her, his final lines, his redemptive line is, get that baby out of here, you idiot. And then he gets sucked out of the plane by the gremlin. This guy is going down swinging. He is like, get that baby out of here, you idiot.

[Paul Scheer]

Look, he loves it. Like, he loves that baby. You know, There is so much here that is so, like. I get that it's a midnight movie. It's a genre movie. It's a horror movie. And it's, like, trying to hit you on all these things, but it just doesn't feel like. It almost feels like it crashed mid movie. Like, it is going towards a place, and then it just sort of, like everything goes off the rails in a way where I could figure out what.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think what it was. What was hard for me is there is so many. There's such high emotional stakes to it. It's. And it's got great dogfight action, set, PC kind of like, you know, planes are shooting at them in the world. A lot of stuff is happening. But they. I felt like the. The emotional weight was never there. Like, every time the. When. When Code Grates, Moretz would, like, interact with the baby, I was like, I feel like she just met that baby 30 seconds before they put the baby in her arms. And we're like, okay, we're gonna go. Ready? Okay, here's the baby. Great. We're gonna set the baby in the box. Okay, great. Go. You know, like, I didn't feel like. And same for the.

[Paul Scheer]

The.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The actor who's revealed to be the father of the baby. Like, I didn't feel like the emotional weight was there, so.

[Paul Scheer]

Because it all happened offsetting screen.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, you have no connection to any of these characters.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I wasn't in their loves. I wasn't inside of their love story at all. You know, and while we're on the.

[Paul Scheer]

Subject of Taggart, I just want to talk about this crew. Is this an American crew? Because it also is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, they're super international. There's a British guy. There's a. A Kiwi. There's a.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's the Allied forces.

[Paul Scheer]

It's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They're all. It's like a whole ragtag group. But they. They do, again, no favors because for 80% of the movie, they are just voices on a radio, you know?

[Paul Scheer]

I know.

[June Diane Raphael]

I do wonder, you know, so it came out in 2020. Like, I do wonder the Choice to have her down there for that long, it did really feel like something must have happened.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It felt pandemicy to me.

[June Diane Raphael]

Very much so. Now I did, you know, I did love the choice of her being in that little area and thinking that her child had died, like, and having her. I mean, she had to do a shit ton of acting down in that little bubble.

[Paul Scheer]

I think she carries a lot of the weight on her shoulders and does an amazing job. But I will tell you one thing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, she does her best to carry the whole movie. Like almost nobody else gets screen time for the most part, you know.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And I, I think the only thing that I felt bad about because I do think that she is very good in this film is when she dropped the accent. I didn't really notice it, like when they, hey, wait, she's talking different. Oh, yeah, she. I thought the accent.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She had been doing a real British. British accent, you know? Yes. And I guess I just became American.

[Paul Scheer]

I guess what I have a trouble with is maybe like a 1940s accent and a British accent were close enough that I was like, oh, I didn't, I didn't read it one way or the other.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

American accent. I just like a mid Atlantic.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm getting in that ship and I'm gonna go over there. I'm British, you see. We're gonna go get in the lorry and get in the lift. Come on there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, I'm so shocked. You don't get more period work. You don't work more in period films.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm trying.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I gotta accent work.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Hey there, boy.

[Paul Scheer]

You think I'm over here?

[June Diane Raphael]

Listen, I want to hear. I want to hear your monologue for the old audition in that accent.

[Paul Scheer]

Hey, you want to come on down to the beach? I got to go to all beach. We've been there since 1940.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, listen, here's where I, you know, obviously I just had a birthday. I'm getting older. But I was watching the movie and I'm like, I feel really like I'm watching it. I thought she was great and I enjoy watching her, but I'm like, is she like a 12 years old? And then I just was like, oh, I mean, I'm just getting so much older that when I see someone who's like, oh, this is an adult woman. This is like, this isn't a coming of age story. Like, this is a story about a grown woman. She's a grown woman. It was just. Did anyone else have it? But maybe I'm just like, no, this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Happens to me all the time in this. This exact same thing where I think a young especially it happens. Like Chloe Grace Maritz is a great example. I feel like I got to know her when she was quite young because she was hit girl in the kick ass movies and she was a kid. So the idea that she's now not just an adult who. Absolutely. It's organic for her to have a child. But in my mind I too was like, oh no, the kid has a baby. And I'm like, oh, wait a minute. No, that's like a 30 year old woman probably who has a baby that's entirely appropriate for 1942.

[June Diane Raphael]

Would be a middle aged woman. She's probably actually. Yes. She's probably actually like an older mom.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

So she's so confusing and I'm having a hard time connecting.

[Paul Scheer]

She is 23. She's 23 when she made this game.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So she still pretty young. Still, still.

[June Diane Raphael]

By the way, probably not too young for the role.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, no. Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

No, because it's like you're thinking about. These are soldiers are getting into the army.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They're all young. The whole cast is super young, you know.

[June Diane Raphael]

But she just seemed so young to me. I was like, I'm watching a child.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Can I say one thing that when I Even older.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Go ahead.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. When I typed in shadow in the cloud on Google, one of the first things that showed up was based on a true story. And then what? I click that. I clicked it and I was like, wait, how does anyone. How is that one of the most frequently asked questions based on the movie? It's not true story. Is that true? Should it happen? How could that like the fact that that is that often.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, yeah. There was. I. There was. I will say it is a testament to her kind of star power that the movie even is watchable at all because is so. It is so. So much of it is static. It's just her in the turret. And then the rest of it is so chaotic and geographically confusing. Who's where, when, who's who? Who are these actors? And when she comes up out of the bubble, I was like, is the guy that she was in love with still alive? Do we even know which one of these like we keep seeing bodies on the ground?

[June Diane Raphael]

I know. I think she was great, but I, I was really connected to the basic story. Okay. And even seeing her at the end, that last moment, even though there are gremlins running around and nobody's told me why or how or where. Even that last moment where I saw her Breastfeeding, you know, I was like, God damn it if this doesn't make me feel something. And I am absolutely intrigued by the premise of this story. So it really. I really did connect to it. And I did. And I was like, oh, I so wish. Because I think this could have been an incredible moment movie about a woman who's in this situation minus gremlins.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, that was. That's the thing is you can't have all these things because then it's like, are you. It becomes too much. It's like two. It's a hat on a hat on a hat. Right. It's not just, I have to protect my baby. It's. I also have to fly and land this plane. It's also, I have to fight this. These gremlins. Like, let's go back to basics.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Snakes on a Plane was only about snakes on a motherfucking plane. There were no babies.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's snakes. Like, it wasn't like, there are. Oh, no, there are wolves on the plane. Or like, it's gremlins. You have to answer, where are these gremlins from and why are they called gremlins? They. I mean, why are they called gremlins? And are these aliens? I also was like, when they crash landed and you The. The sea. And then she goes out. She goes out and she beats the shit out of a gremlin. She beats a gremlin to death with her bare hands.

[Paul Scheer]

Basically breaks his jaw into his own skull.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She uses the gremlin's taloned hand and does the why are you hitting yourself? Thing, kind of. And kills the gremlin with the gremlin's own taloned hand. The gremlin never bites her or never gets a hand on her. It doesn't matter. That's fine. I kind of wanted, though, at the end for her to be at what you're describing June as that final tableau of, she's done it. They've rescued the baby. There's a couple of people left alive. I kind of wanted, like, over the crest of the hill for there to be, like, hundreds of gremlins.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Let them land on Gremlin Island. And then tell me, guess what? Gremlins are part of the mythology of this story.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, but this is, like, again, and this is where my mind is going. And this is what it's like to, you know, to watch a movie with me. When she put the baby on her breast, which I thought was actually a very, you know, the breastfeeding moment was a very cool visual for the end. I don't know if I feel like it worked.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Super cool visual.

[June Diane Raphael]

I didn't know like how her milk didn't dry up after all that trauma. I mean she had. She had been hanging off a plane. I'm glad we're talking about earlier.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm glad we're talking about.

[June Diane Raphael]

She was still lacking.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She was still just. She. Well, in a lot of takes, in a lot of scenes, you can see that she's leaking. She's leaking milk. You can see it. It's out there.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I mean that was, that was giveaway. That was a dead giveaway that. That was a dead giveaway that it was a baby in the box. But I thought at the end the baby would be like. It would be like, I'm going to put this baby in my breast. And then the final scare back like in the baby was a Kremlin and bite her. Her in the chest. So that's. I thought.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I, I never thought that. But I was, I did think like somehow these gremlins have to win. Right? Like. Or not.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I mean that one gremlin fell from the sky.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

The one that she fights and punches in the face with his own fist. Yes. I'm. I'm like that one fell from the fucking sky and she chopped his tail off.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And it had wings. Like we think she kills it, but then it sprouts wings and flies away.

[June Diane Raphael]

I thought that was a great moment. There were a couple of moments like that where I thought it was really well directed where like she, when she. And I agree the geography was insane. Not seeing anybody up there. Like, here's what, here's what I justified. I was like, something happened. It is pre pandemic, but something happened with this cast or the plane or something where they could not shoot anything up there or they just didn't have like something major. Must have gone.

[Paul Scheer]

How much you think this movie cost?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

$7 million.

[June Diane Raphael]

I bet more than that. Like 20 million.

[Paul Scheer]

10. 10 mil. Oh, I mean it's not, not a, not a, not a small budgeted movie. I guess there are some really big.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's a couple of exteriors. There's a couple. But there. But you know, but it is sort.

[June Diane Raphael]

Of like at a certain point it's like a one woman show.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Exactly.

[June Diane Raphael]

Down in.

[Paul Scheer]

I was going to say, would you guys help finance me to do the. Yeah. On the West End only. Good old London theater. Yang ding baby.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Only if you breastfeed.

[Paul Scheer]

You know that feeling when you're watching a movie and you can't Stop analyzing every choice. Well, that's where Claude comes in. It's the AI that helps you dig deeper into the things that fascinate you. Whether you're researching the production history behind Hollywood's strangest decisions or exploring the context that made these films possible, Claude works with you to uncover the stories behind the stories. Try Claude for free at Claude AI HD DTGM and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. On ebay, every find has a story. Like if you're looking for a vintage band tee, the one you wore everywhere until you lost it. Now you're on ebay. And there it is. The things you love have a way of finding their way back to you, especially on ebay. From rare collectibles and vintage cars to designer fashion, it's all there. Shop ebay for millions of finds, each with a story. Ebay. Things people love. Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the idea of learning a new language? I know that I always want to do it, but then feel like, well, I don't have enough time. And then I try, I maybe buy a book or I commit to it for about a day or two and then it drops. That's why Babbel is built to help you not only get started, but stay started. Look, learning a language with Babbel is all about small steps, big wins and your progress. Their bite sized lessons fit easily into your daily routine and they're easy to remember. Now, I love Babbel because it gives me something to do on my phone when I'm kind of like, well, should I just doom scroll? No, I can actually learn something. Like, it actually pulls me out of bad habits because Babbel is always there. My tutor is always ready. I love Babbel. And here's a special limited time deal for our listeners. Right now. You get 55% off your Babbel subscription at babel.com forward slash bonkers. Get up to 55% off at babel.com bonkers spelled B A, B, B E L.com forward slash bonkers. Rules and restrictions may apply.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would have, yeah, there was a lot of. To me, this could have been like alien, right?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, oh yeah. Oh no, there's a gremlin on the ship. Or there's gremlins on the ship. Okay. And there it could have had, like for. I think for me there was too much going on and that's why the movie ultimately kind of didn't work. I enjoyed parts of it, but if.

[Paul Scheer]

It would have, you would like Gremlin.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would have liked more of the horror Gremlins movie. And I didn't need the. The one in Gremlin Dog Fight. I didn't need her.

[Paul Scheer]

What'd you say?

[June Diane Raphael]

I said you wanted Gremless.

[Paul Scheer]

That's the shirt.

[June Diane Raphael]

Little Gremless.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Gremless.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, by the way, Gremless.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That element of it. I would have liked almost more of her in the plane with the other actors and the Gremlins. So we would get to know the ensemble better, we would get to understand the stakes better and that the threat was truly these.

[Paul Scheer]

Somebody need to be transporting Gremlins. They're nest. They need to be a rumor about Gremlins.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This much. A movie that has Gremlins in it and have it not re. Have none of the main characters really be like, what the fuck is up with these Gremlins?

[Paul Scheer]

Snakes are playing. They tell you how they're. They don't. They don't just like, say that snakes are on a plane. They tell you how the snakes get on a plane in Gremlins. You understand the rules of the Gremlins, Why they even exist. Every one of these movies, the thing. You get it. Like you get Alien. You get it. Here's a couple questions, though, that are grim. Less the baby in the box. I didn't see too many holes in that box with the.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, that was the. The. So that's why I kept showing. By the way, I knew there was a baby in the box because in the very beginning, when she's packing up the box in that montage sequence, there's like an air. There's like a little ventilation.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's the speaker. It's the speaker area for it. Because it's a radio bag, she calls it.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, so yes, that was down on the lower right hand side.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right.

[Paul Scheer]

Which would mean that the bait, like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now I will still in a way that the blanket is probably covering that thing.

[Paul Scheer]

That is my thing that I was like the baby. Like the baby's arm and head in a blank because that baby is swaddled to the. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I want to. I want to say shame on this movie for. There's a moment where she crash lands the plane and they. They. They give. The one and only fantasy sequence in this movie is she visualizes her dead lover and dead baby. Like she visualizes. I'm gonna. I'm gonna turn around and I'm gonna. And. But the movie shows it to you in a way that is almost as.

[June Diane Raphael]

If it's really what's happening all of those Visualizations. I thought all of those were fantasy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sequence like that one, but in this one, it's like. It's like, you see the. The baby thing is crushed and the. The lover is on the floor dead, and there's blood seeping out of the, the. The radio box. And I was like, oh, fucking did this. And then, and then it cuts out and it's clearly a. It's a fantasy. But I was like, hey, man, don't make me think the baby is dead. Don't, don't give me, don't, don't. Don't do this just to get. Just. Just to zap me, you know, like. Like she did.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, it's a very. It's a very hard, fancy, manipulative to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Me in a way that I was.

[June Diane Raphael]

Like, I don't appreciate seeing. Even like dream baby blood. Like, it was too much for me. It was just too much for me.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, they also. I mean, this is just dumb little stuff, but she says at some point we have to crash land, we have to dump the fuel and dump all the cargo or we're going to explode. They do neither of those things and they crash land and it explodes, but they manage to get away. There was just like, dumb little stuff that I was like, I don't again, did anybody.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay. I laughed so hard when that gremlin whose tail she cut off and they started flying back to her when she was just trying to throw out like various pieces of cargo to try to hit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just to try and drop it on.

[June Diane Raphael]

The ground like that. You really have to have, like, you're.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Traveling hundreds of hours, hundreds of miles per hour.

[Paul Scheer]

Hey, look, she's actually one of those great people at a carnival that can drop like the circles over, like the pyramid and then you get a big prize.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I laughed so hard at that. And I laughed so hard also at her with a piece of pipe trying to catch the baby who's like 10ft away. Yeah, you are traveling. You are traveling at hundreds of miles an hour. She's in the air.

[Paul Scheer]

Face wasn't even like, really rippling her hair.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sheer. There's no wind. There's no. They're in a dog fight. The plane must be doing evasive maneuvers because they're getting shot up by the Japanese aircraft that are attacking them. She is just reaching out with that pole. Gonna catch this baby on a stick. I was like, what is happening?

[Paul Scheer]

So again, I know I don't want to keep on circling back to it, but why do the gremlins want that baby so bad? Or is it just.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Or why do they want that plane? Like, I mean, they want the baby.

[June Diane Raphael]

They want the baby, and I think wanted the baby before she got on that plane.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, that's what I'm asking. Are they. Did the gremlins show up because of the baby, or do the gremlins work.

[Paul Scheer]

For the abusive husband?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Was this plane just riddled with gremlins and she happened to get on it? Oh, the gremlins want the baby now.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, the minute that she sees that guy in the beginning, right. Who gets disappeared right before she gets on the plane, right? She see, like, she's in the Air Force. She's in the airfield. There's a guy in front of her, and then he goes. And so the gremlins are on the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ground, and the gremlins are there on the wing. She sees the hydraulics have been ripped out, and she. She mentions it to the crew, and the crew's like, you didn't. You didn't see that you're alive when they're saying, shut up. There's a dame, you know, she doesn't know anything.

[Paul Scheer]

You know, there's a lot of questions about why. Like. Like, are gremlins mischievous? Or are they baby like. Or do they want that baby's blood? Because I also feel like they took the baby, like, the way that you would be, like, oh, I'm gonna save this for later.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, you know, like, tell us, like, oh, Hitler invented gremlins in this world.

[Paul Scheer]

Or the Japanese, when the Japanese are underneath.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They have. In this World War II story, the Nazis have gremlins. They've succeeded in their supernatural.

[Paul Scheer]

The secrets in their Luftwaffe stuff.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Exactly.

[June Diane Raphael]

I didn't think. I think you're right, Paul. That it was. You know, I think the war was a backdrop to what was happening with the gremlins. That the gremlins wanted to take that baby somewhere else and make it a. Something. Either make it a gremlin or make hybrids or some.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, because here's my thought. I think that the gremlins look like. Remember that movie we watched, Sleepwalkers? Whereas, like, the mother and son. Who are the cats? Oh, my gosh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All right, so, I mean, vaguely. Aren't there a bunch of dead cats hanging in a tree?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, there's a bunch of.

[June Diane Raphael]

I was there for that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You 100% were, because. Oh, I remember they were an incestuous mother and son, which you refused to believe was an incestuous mother and son. You did. You think they were a couple?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. Yeah. You were very ups. You were very upset about the mother and son there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I can't remember. There was some. There was.

[June Diane Raphael]

God, I don't remember.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There was some funny conversation.

[June Diane Raphael]

Nothing is sparking anything.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Lauren Lapis was the guess. We. We basically.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's funny.

[Paul Scheer]

And. But the. But there's a really famous scene where, like, a cop is trying to pull over a man cat and he's like. And his face turns into like a man cat. But they looked like hair. They look like the cats from Sleepwalkers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

When the gremlin is on the outside of the bubble and it's like tongue starts to expand and get.

[June Diane Raphael]

Like that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was like, what is this? Let it do something. I thought it was going to like. You like saying, I thought it was going to spit acid so it could get into the bubble. Or. I didn't understand. Like, they give you specifics, but they don't give you specifics. They don't follow through. You don't get third act explanations.

[Paul Scheer]

There's no this movie, no time, no exposition.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was like, what? These men and this woman have survived on this baby? Have survived an insane thing. A plane crash, a dog fight, war itself, misogyny, the threats to a baby. But the highlight should be we saw gremlins and we fought them like, what the what?

[June Diane Raphael]

And won. Yeah, you know, that one shot. You're right. Like, I never knew. I really didn't know what the gremlins could do. Like, did they ever really kill someone or just sort of throw them planes?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They also seem to be mostly like pulling the plane apart midair. They're destroying the engines. They're just tearing. They're tear. They. They seem to. Exactly. That's why the guy's like, there's a big. I saw a big rat. Like, is that what they are? Are they just like rodents that have infested, like, pigeons? Yeah, they've infested this plane. And they're just.

[Paul Scheer]

These are not real, though. It's like, it's like, like, this is like. Like, like I can get under. I can understand. Okay, there's a. They're like, they seem to have ill will towards our, like, our group in particular. Or like, why do they need three.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They are the villains in a way that I'm like, what is their motive? What is the gremlins motivation?

[Paul Scheer]

If it crashes, don't they die?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No. Well, because at least one of them can fly.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay. And I guess the other question. The other question I have is this. And this is a.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Are these aliens? Are these aliens? Or are these just a species they might be aliens, I assume aliens as well. But are these just a species of animal we haven't seen?

[Paul Scheer]

One of the best. One of the best things about.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I thought they were vampire bats. At one point I was like, are these going to be vampires?

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, it. None of it really makes any sense. But I will ask you about this because this is another trope that I noticed, and this is off Gremlins, again, just to every now and then bring it away from Gremlins and ask you this. A lot of times in these movies, like, people are being very pessimistic in a moment where it feels like total shock should be happening. Like, when they're about to crash that plane, like, it's not gonna make it. You're not gonna make it. You're not gonna make it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know?

[Paul Scheer]

And I was wondering, first of all, does that help? Like, would you do that if you're in a moment like Dom Toretto shooting off the, you know, thing? Like, once you're in mid flight, once you are in free fall, don't you.

[June Diane Raphael]

Want to be a positive quiet?

[Paul Scheer]

Actually, that's what I would imagine.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, do you think that you would be June, like, if you and I were, you know, flying off a cliff, do you think you would hold your criticism back? Because at that point, what can we do? We've already committed to making it. So at that point, I just. I always find it such a funny, weird thing that people are so pessimistic in the middle of a moment of life and death. Like, my last thing I said is, take the baby, you dummy, and we're not gonna make it. Like, your last, last words are, I'm not gonna make it is really like a dark.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They also execute a crash landing that is so insane. And, And. And so, like, bananas. Like, they don't just crash land. They have to do a full 180 in the plane in order to crash land correctly. And yes, they execute it flawlessly. Like, they execute something that I suspect is it literally impossible and do it. And it is so funny to me. That's the thing is, like, every. Everybody is just doing stuff in a way that I was like, okay, cool, all. You're all, like, badasses in the air. Fine. Still Gremlins, guys.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wouldn't you still be saying, what the fuck was that? What was what?

[Paul Scheer]

Do what?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Do what? What was that? What did they want? Where did you. Where did we pick them up? Like, I know we can't get over this.

[June Diane Raphael]

Tell you. I will tell you that Casey Has a gremlin. No, she has a cousin. His name is Jimmy Jett. He is a former airline pilot.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

And Jimmy Jet was. Well, he worked for like, Delta and.

[Paul Scheer]

Wait, is his name really Jimmy Jett? Or that is like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. Wait, so his name was Jimmy Jet, but he calls himself Jimmy Jet?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was gonna say, if your name is Jim, you have to become a pilot.

[June Diane Raphael]

And Jimmy Jett maintains that he has seen not one, not two, but dozens of aliens up in the sky.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah. No, this is a big thing.

[June Diane Raphael]

This is a big thing. Now, I think. I'm pretty sure Delta asked him to not return after he started publishing his newsletter. But wow.

[Paul Scheer]

We get so.

[June Diane Raphael]

But, But I will say that it occurred to me watching the movie, like, maybe at one point I thought maybe these guys have just seen so many creatures up there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sure.

[June Diane Raphael]

That they are non plussed.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, it also, it reminded me, of course, of the Twilight Zone. Famous Twilight Zone episode with William Shatner.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Where there's a mon. Is it. Is it William Shatner where there's a monster wing? Yeah, exactly. A monster on the wing of the plane. And so I, when it started, I was like, oh, is this going to be like one of those kind of stories? Is this a. And then when it, when it. When the closed captioning told me that it was a gremlin, I was like, oh, here we go. This movie is going to be Gremlins on this plane. And then it kind of was, but it also kind of wasn't like they were just as concerned about other things as they were about the gr. Again, I'm obsessed with the gremlins. And also, I can't believe that we're allowed to call them gremlins, even though.

[Paul Scheer]

Gremlins actually was created by Rodol. Right. Or is that how you pronounce?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I didn't know that. Okay.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. He actually came up with that term in his first children's book.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, wow.

[Paul Scheer]

To. He and Gremlins were fighting against. Fighting humans because of deforestation. But.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But he was the. Joe Dante. Gremlins is not about. Is not an adaptation of the Roald Dahlia. Gremlins.

[Paul Scheer]

No, no, no. Yeah. So, but like, but, but that term, Gremlins has been around since he was a fighter pilot. His first story was about Gremlins, and then Gremlins became a whole thing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's interesting.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, but now I do have a question about.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, I like then that. Okay, so I take it back. So I like then that this movie, which I did not know and I guess I could have Inferred from the cartoon at the beginning that this movie is taking a. An actual thing that pilots would describe something bad, shoddy workmanship as gremlins, having gotten at it. And it has actually said, what if really gremlins were the cause of the plane's problems? What if actual gremlins rather than just bad workmanship? Right. This. That's what this movie's launching point is. What if that saying or that phrase was actually true and that the engine failure was due to. Not because the mechanics did a bad job, but because an actual gremlin is tearing out the wiring or whatever.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, I will. I want to just. Because I just googled it to make sure I was right. It did start among airmen. Ok, so, like this. And Roald Dahl, like, popularized it. So there was this idea.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

That there are. Yeah, spirits, fairies, leprechauns and gremlins. And it. And so basically there was this, you know, this. It got very popularized during World War II, but it was even starting in 1938 about these mystical creatures, you know, and there. A lot of servicemen talked about these gremlins. So, I mean, Britain saw the first gremlins. That's basically all we know. They're the. They're the product of a machine age. They believe it was a passing of the buck, important to the morale of the pilots, that it wasn't their fault, it was another person's fault because they were such a complex machine. So they didn't want to be blamed for any of these things going wrong.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So. Wow. Wow. Okay. I mean, that's interesting. They. They chose to, like, take that and make it like an actual thing, like, oh, an actual gremlin. But then I feel like they just did. That's what they did. They did that alone. And they.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, this is really funny. It's really funny that they created like, a fake person to help boost the morale because, listen, of these ads, gremlins are floor greasers, so watch your step. Gremlins love to pitch things at your eyes, so wear safety goggles.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

These are real.

[Paul Scheer]

These are all real. Gremlins will push you around, so watch where you're going. Gremlins will get you if you don't watch out. Why help little gremlins, you know, dust in the corner? Like, it's like they basically are creating someone not to make you feel bad for fucking up, which is a really, like, amazing and weird thing to do. Yeah. To basically like, like, like to be like, hey, it's not your fault.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's a scapegoat yeah, it's a. It's a scapegoat to. To cover up, you know, bad workmanship on complicated. On flying machines, maybe.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I guess that was the whole point of the story, right? That she was more capable. She saved them from the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The mechanical problems that these literal gremlins were causing.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, but she also saved them from enemy fire, and she was. Saved them from their incompetence, in a way. And I guess. I guess that's all the explanation we needed about the gremlins.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I guess so. I guess I would have liked a little more. I would have liked to have known, like, what's. Where. Where these gremlins come from.

[Paul Scheer]

I just say.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think, well, I mean, what's up with these gremlins? I would have loved her to be at the end, like, what's up with these gremlins?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, not only is she like, all right, so she fights gremlins. She hangs out on the airplane. She's got this baby. She's transporting it. She writes her own fake letters. She's good at shooting a gun. She's good at beating up people, saving the day, exploding and all of that. And she, I think, creates the term shoot your shot because at one point, she turns to the pilot of this plane and says, you got to shoot your shot.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, really?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And that would. That, to me, made me laugh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I also didn't understand. She at some point says, you have no idea how far I'll go. You have no idea how far I'll go. And I'm like, who are you talking to right now?

[June Diane Raphael]

I think to the gremlins.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, by the way, at that point, I want to say. I want to say we do. We do know how far you will go. You got blown up out of. Like, you've done it.

[June Diane Raphael]

Not yet. She had.

[Paul Scheer]

Not yet.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is before that. This is when she's about to climb out and hook the baby.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, you're right. Yes. So it was to the gremlins. It was maybe telepathically to the gremlins.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God. I almost wish she had been like, she. I wanted her to be like a. A spy. In my mind, she was a spy. And she snuck aboard this plane because she knew there were gremlins. And she's on board to fight gremlins, you know, she's like hellboy or something, you know, and they have no idea. And she's like, that's. That's. Her job is she's like a badass monster killer. But when she was Just as surprised by the Gremlins as everybody else. I was like, oh, no, this movie is very different. I don't know. I don't know what's happening. She doesn't know about the Gremlins. Nobody knows about the Gremlins.

[Paul Scheer]

But even her first reaction is like, there's a gremlin out there. I'm gonna take a gun and I'm gonna shoot right away.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

First thing was, I'm not gonna say anything.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. I'm taking this one to the grave.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm not gonna tell anybody I just saw a Gremlin.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Holy. This was some wild stuff.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. But you know what? I don't know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You were in.

[June Diane Raphael]

I was. I was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Holy cow.

[June Diane Raphael]

I like a plane movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

So scratch. Certainly scratched that itch.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yep.

[June Diane Raphael]

And then I. I enjoyed the motherhood piece of it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And it really was very cool things. I was on the fence until Brett breastfeeding and, you know, automatically breastfeeding in a movie just. I'm like. It skyrockets to the top of the list. So I thought it was great.

[June Diane Raphael]

I loved that moment.

[Paul Scheer]

I did, too. I actually like the two moments that I remember the most from the film. Well, I get. I should say three. One, when she's working that artillery gun, when she's like. Like, Rambo style. Like, that was awesome. Like, and just, like, she's, like. She can really do it all. And I think that she does a great job of, like, you buy her. Like, I don't. I never at a certain point. And there are certain action movies where you're like, oh, I don't buy that that person could hit that. Like, Which, I mean, maybe it's because of the hit girl of it all, but the way she beat the fuck out of that Gremlin, it seemed believable to me. Like, she. I felt like she wasn't a person who was into fisticuffs all the time.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, she was the anger of a mother. The only part, which you mentioned earlier, the only part that I made her look silly was when she was trying to drop cargo on the flying Gremlin below. Because I was like, well, that just wouldn't. The minute you drop it out, it's going to immediately rock it behind you. You're. You're moving in a plane. That's not how it works. But otherwise. Yeah, I loved when. When she shoots. Because she shoots two of the Japanese bomber guys. One from her turret and one from a different turret. Like, she is. And she flies. She. She lands the plane. She is like, Rambo is a good example. Like, she's adept and a badass in all way shape and form, including giving her baby nourishment with. With her boobs.

[Paul Scheer]

All I would have needed was a tight. I already said I needed one scene, but now I'll say this. I won't even take a scene. Just at the end of the movie, the credits go to black and it says reports of this were. Were blacked out for like just put a thing up there. Like the government hid the thing. Like she went off and did this. But. But here's the thing. And again, I guess the reason why.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

People ask me and her lover, the guy that. The father of the baby, he lives too, right?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

See, I never was like, it never. I was.

[Paul Scheer]

They wanted all three of them to be together. They wanted like, I wanted his. Him to be with her while she was breastfeeding. Then to be triumphant on that mountain and then to hear this screech of a gremlin in the background.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, give me like a. Give me like 200 gremlins, like descending upon them. I want to know.

[Paul Scheer]

I want that monster from the book of Boba Fett first episode. Pop that out of the ground.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Let's get us. Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Why people ask. It's real. I do think it is confusing and I think it's. Again, you talked about like these moments in this movie that like, are tropes or made you feel a certain way. You watch this movie, crazy ass movie. We've already talked about why it's so crazy. And then you cut to this end where it's like you're seeing all of our crew members for more screen time than they even really had in the actual film. A lot of them, like in these, like, nice, like, hey, this is them at work and play before the gremlins hit. And then they just casually mix in real footage of actual soldiers. I think it's a weird choice.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, wait, I didn't see that.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh yeah, the whole credit sequence is all these amazing women.

[June Diane Raphael]

Because on Hulu. Oh, I would have loved to have seen that on Hulu. You couldn't watch the credit sequence. It prompts to another movie so quickly.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I know, it's sort of like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Outtakes, but I didn't see.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, so they basically have this like, montage of all the wasps, which are the women Air Force service pilots. Oh, that's cool. So it's really cool. But it is also confusing because, like League of Their Own, I want to see the women playing baseball. Like, this is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is a Ramp. You're saying people might have thought it was real?

[Paul Scheer]

Because I do think there's something. It's like, this is not even a story about you. Like, this is not even like, oh my gosh, this is the first woman pilot who did something. It's like, this is just a straight up Rambo story. Like, but to put real people there, I'm like, it is a little weird. I was like, that's cool. But it's also like, wait, what?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would have also liked it if they did that. If there's like a black and white photo of, you know, a female pilot. But then I was just gonna say a black and white photo of like a plane with gremlins on it.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, or, or just. Or a black and white photo of gremlins. Like, you know, and just like, hey. And they're like mikto. You know, it's like all these different. Just classic gremlin black and white shots. Gremlins and bikinis. Anyway, obviously we have have an opinion about this movie, but there are people out there with a different opinion. Actually, scratch that. There are people out there with this same exact opinion. We're going to hear from them. That's right. It's not second opinions, it's third opinions. Love these unlike rules apply. Second opinions for you and me. That's right, it's third opinions. There are a lot of positive reviews of this film. 42% are five star reviews. But they seem to be bogged down in technicalities. It's not really fun five star reviews. So we wanted to get into some of the more fun one star reviews. This is written by just Amazon customer. What a complete and utter disappointment. The entire premise of the movie is a joke. There's no plot, no rhyme, no reason, it makes no sense. And the whole thing's about a baby one star. This one's written by Brian L. Nasty Vogel. And it goes like this. This is possibly the worst movie ever made. And I watch a lot of movies. I feel obliged not to let the unsuspecting viewers purchase or rent this mess. I managed to get through this movie only by making a game out of how many consecutive seconds Chloe Grace Maritz's face was not on the screen. I only got to 2.8 seconds. That's the highest length by far. The movie has nothing other than a ridiculous dialogue featuring only voices talking to Chloe Grace Moritz. And then it goes. The plot is even worse than the ill prepared props of the Sperry gun turret. I want my money back. That is one star. And that Was written just a couple of days ago. This one's written. And our final one is written by Nat. I think this movie disrespects the audience's intelligence. It's a ridiculous excuse for storytelling. Did interns write this? And by interns. They must have been interns to an elementary student council. That's it. Children wrote and directed this. That's the only explanation. Now I don't feel so bad. You kids should pat each other on the head job. Well done. Don't let anyone squash your imagination until you're adults and you actually want to make something that you're proud of. In that case, don't do this. Just quit. Run away from any association to this movie. It will be a step in the right direction. Kids, one stop.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That he invented the kids.

[Paul Scheer]

That he invented.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He invent.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What a. What a wild rant.

[Paul Scheer]

What a journey. Anyway, Jason, June, any final thoughts? Would you recommend this movie? I mean, June, you. You said yes, right?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, in an absurd way. Yeah. And like I said, at an hour and 20, it zips by. Great. I was like, okay, I'm having fun. I did. I had some structural problems with it, but, you know, I'm like, I'm into gremlins. Plus World War II plus plus dog fight, plus, you know, protect the baby movie. It just.

[June Diane Raphael]

Ah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It almost. I really. I was viscerally upset, though, that I didn't think the movie was. I, you know, I. The movie is flawed, but they used Kate Bush in the closing credits. And that broke my heart because it was. It. That's just too great a song to use in too bad a movie. So that I had a real issue.

[Paul Scheer]

With, especially after the. The techno synth. Especially after.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. The Cynthia John Carpenter ripoff score to give us Kate Bush, Hounds of Love at the end. I was like, how dare you?

[June Diane Raphael]

I hear that. I. I really love the score, but it just that. That since it's just scratching and trimming. I loved it. But I. I enjoyed it, you know, I just enjoyed it. And the gremlins were shocking. And we have. We still have no answers. But. But even with them, I enjoyed it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I wonder if we're just like, are we in a place in time where the world is full of such chaos that even a movie like this, we're like, yes, thank you. Thank you, movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

Listen, it took me a while. A place that I didn't expect to go. And at an hour and 20 minutes, I thought it was a fine use of my time.

[Paul Scheer]

I will agree that if you were in a Theater at midnight with a bunch of people. It would be a fun.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I can see this as a midnight movie type. Yes, absolutely.

[Paul Scheer]

All right, so now here's my dumb joke that I saved to the end. And I've set it up now, so it's gonna be too complex, but I'll say it anyway. You know, one of the characters in the film is Stu Beckle. And I said, did Beckle pass the Bechdel test by not talking about Chloe Grace Moritz with another person for one scene? And he did not. So that's. That's my answer there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, did Beckle pass?

[June Diane Raphael]

Great job, babe.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow. I'm not sure that you understand what the Bechtel test.

[Paul Scheer]

No, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So that joke is just about the. The near the sound alike of their names.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good one. I'd say that one. I save that one at the end because I knew we had to get.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Out of high note. It's really worth it.

[Paul Scheer]

I looked at this note that I had wrote down. I was like, what is this? I was like, I got to read that. June, you have something really fun coming up right at the Jane club.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. On January 22nd. Second, we are hosting our third virtual day long retreat. And it will be incredible. We have different speakers, we do writing sessions. There's meditation. It's just one of my favorite days of the year.

[Paul Scheer]

All right, great. And Jason, anything else that you want.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

To talk about, you know? No, not really. Star Trek Prodigy is back out and doing great stuff.

[Paul Scheer]

And I'll just remind everybody that every Thursday night over on Twitch, which is not a scary place at all. It's just like YouTube. It's totally free. You can just log on. Rob Huebel and I host a show there, and you can watch the recaps of that show every weekend on my YouTube channel. And a big thank you to our movie picking producer Avril Halley, who picked this film, found this film, watched this film, which came out only a year ago. She described it as, this movie is simultaneously the worst and possibly my favorite movie of 2020. And I think, honestly, like, she's kind of right. There's enough stuff in here that really makes it fun, but it's so weird. And a big thank you to our producer, Cody Fisher, our audio engineer, Devin Bryant, our mvp, Molly Reynolds, our person who kind of oversees it all, July Diaz, and everybody else at Earwolf who makes this show all come together. And thank you to Nate Kiley for all of his amazing research. His third opinions, his first opinions, and of course the ghost of Craig T. Nelson who designs all of our crazy fun art, and Kyle Waldron who does all of our great Facebook art. You can check out teepublic.com for all of our shirts and you bet there will be a gremless shirt right next to a Googie and our snowman shirt. There's always sales going on there, so just go to Teepublic. You'll find it. It's easy. Just type in how did this get made in the search bar. You're smart, I love you all and if you want to weigh in, you could do that on our mini episode. Just give me a call at 619p a u l a s k. That's 619paul ask. You can talk about this movie or you can call for my advice line where I'll give you some tips about how to how to be a new you in 2022. All right, that's all for now. We'll see you next week on the mini episode. Hi, I'm Jenny Slate and believe it.

[June Diane Raphael]

Or not, someone is allowing us to have a podcast.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm Gabe Liedman.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm Max Silvestri and we've been friends.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

For 20 years and we like to.

[Paul Scheer]

Reach out to kind of get advice.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

On how to live our lives. It's called I need you guys.

[Paul Scheer]

Should I give my baby fresh vegetables?

[June Diane Raphael]

Can I drink the water at the hospital?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

My landlord plays the trombone and I.

[Paul Scheer]

Can'T ask him to stop.

[June Diane Raphael]

You should make sure that you subscribe so that you never miss an episode.

[Paul Scheer]

Holiday burnout is real.

[June Diane Raphael]

From delayed flights to unexpected guests and.

[Paul Scheer]

All the cooking and wrapping in between. That's why Coop Sleepgoods curated a gift guide and everything is 25% off for a limited time. The guide is packed with award winning.

[June Diane Raphael]

Pillows, best selling super soft sheets and.

[Paul Scheer]

Cooling pillows for the hot sleepers in your life.

[June Diane Raphael]

Shop effortlessly this year by skipping the.

[Paul Scheer]

Guesswork and wrapping a thoughtful gift they'll actually use every night.

[June Diane Raphael]

And don't forget, you deserve better sleep too.

[Paul Scheer]

So go ahead, add an extra pillow or a sheet set for yourself.

[June Diane Raphael]

Everyone needs a good night's rest so you can't go wrong with a gift from Coop.

[Paul Scheer]

Visit coopsleepgoods.com comedy to get 25% off.

[June Diane Raphael]

Their gift guide picks that's C-O-O-P sleepgoods.com comedy.