Jason Mantzoukas (6:23)

Give them a call.

Michael Tara Garver (6:24)

You give them a.

Paul Scheer (6:35)

Thank you, Chris Purcell. For that theme song, let's go to Mitch Kappa, AKA Chunk style. It was funny how Jason brought up how hot Ewan McGregor is because there were two different instances in the movie where people describe him as being very plain and unremarkable. Like they just kind of forgot to change the script after he was cast. Also, there was no mention of the section of the movie when he was living in a bell tower. Obviously, he was already mentally unwell before that point, but it seems like a level of torture that would be outlawed by the Geneva Convention because it would make anyone insane. You know, you bring up a good point. And I think I wrote it off in my head that he wasn't actually living there. He was kind of like hanging out there a lot. But you're right, that would drive any human insane. I mean, he's become like the Hunchback of Notre Dame. But even in the first scene when he's getting the incriminating pictures on the boss, it looks like he's living in that place, too. Maybe he just likes to take naps, I don't know. But he really does settle in really well. And I think we described it in the episode, but the character was supposed to be an older, overweight gentleman. And so I think that, yeah, they never changed it. They never changed it. And I guess they made him look. I mean, they dressed him a little bit less cool and hip. I don't know. It was the 90s. So at that point, I can't tell you the styles Dove writes. Let's talk more about how insane it was that Ewan's character had a surveillance microphone setup. That when we first see it, we're meant to assume it's a rifle, and then it's revealed just to be a super sensitive microphone. But then later, it is actually a rifle with a barrel located right next to the sensitive microphones, which means Ewan would have probably made himself deaf by firing it if he wasn't already deaf from living in that bell tower. People, you're calling out all the right stuff. I think it was a gun, too, but, yeah, that doesn't. I don't know. Now I'm confused. You're right. He would go. He would blow out his own eardrums. Why would he need a rifle? Someone caught him, but he wasn't a sniper. He wasn't a killer dove. Why does he have a gun? Why does he have a gun at all? Joe Tangelo writes, the wildest scene that you didn't talk about is when Ewan McGregor confronts the blind guy to warn him about Ashley Judd instead of just discreetly warning him that she's a serial killer and that he's witnessed her kill multiple people. He runs at him, punches him in the face, knocks him to the ground, starts kicking him and screams, open your eyes, you stupid blind bastard. She's going to kill you. And then he runs away. Oh, my God, Joe, I totally forgot about that scene until you just said it. You're right. I mean, that whole section of the movie is, like, where the movie cratered for me a little bit. And I just felt like I was. I was watching, but I wasn't really invested at that point. And you're right. Like, well, he did a. I mean, look, he tried to save that blind man by blowing out the tire in the car and then killed him. Look, he is mentally unwell. We have to just put that there. I mean, he should be using one of our great sponsors, which I won't mention, because if they're not paying for this episode, I'm not going to mention them. Loves Tarps writes, this is Ewan's second worst haircut and a film that came out in 1999. I assume you are, of course, alluding to the Phantom Menace when he was rocking that rat tail. Oh, man. George Lucas. You got it. You figured out what the kids wanted to see Jedis with rat tails. Why? We didn't need that. We didn't need. We didn't want that. I mean, Boba Fett has, like, a little rat tail, but that feels like he killed somebody and then took their rat tail. I don't like, did Boba Fett kill a Jedi? Is that a Jedi rat tail? Ooh, Star wars fanfic. Let's get started. All right. And then Loves Tarps writes, you didn't talk about how Ewan was also wearing a jacket that made him look like Santa Claus to go with the Merry Christmas, Daddy stuff. Well, okay, look, I get it. That jacket does look a little puffy. I'm looking at a picture of it right now, and it does have a fur lining. I think that that was. I don't know. I don't think he's trying to dress like Santa. I don't think so. In a movie with bad hair, they probably also had just some bad production design cobbled with bad wardrobe. Dr. Guts1003 writes, maybe Paul was aware of this and just didn't mention it when discussing the scene. But in the closing moments, when Ashley Judd tells Ewan, I wish you love, that is a reference to the title of the song that both her and Ewan's hallucination daughter sings throughout the movie. Dr. Guts, I was not aware, and no one was because clearly no one picked up on it. So what are we saying? Is that a real song? Or are they joined in a Drop Dead Fred world of imaginary friends who all sing? Which would prove my point, that they all live together in heaven space. Oh, I don't know, Dr. Guts, I did not know that. But now you've opened up a real can of worms about invisible friends. Oh, it's a whole Team Fred, Team sanity all over again. But this one proves my point anyway. Sean McBee writes, the snow globe transition from New York to San Francisco was particularly galling. As he's walking away from the bar to New York, the bartender holds up the snow globe, saying, hey, you forgot this. But as we push in, we see it's San Francisco. That's right, it's a San Francisco snow globe. Which then transitions us to that city. Does that mean that he bought the San Francisco snow globe in New York. Here's what I'm gonna say, Sean. And I don't want to defend this movie, but I will tell you this. I believe that the entire movie was built on snow globe transitions. Because in the deleted scene, there's another transition with the snow globe. I have a feeling they cut that out and every snow globe was the next location. Right. So we were to assume, like, if he's in Atlanta, he's holding up an Atlanta snow globe, but when we see the snow globe, it's going to London or wherever he's going. So that, I think, was the. That was like our transition point. It didn't work because you can't just do that once. There's no pattern there. You know, once is odd, twice is a coincidence. Third time, it's a pattern. I think this movie did it once, but there were two times undeleted scenes. All right, so many great corrections and omissions this week, but there can only be one that is the best. Oh, my gosh. This is going to be really hard here because some of you came after me. And I got to say, the person who really brought this whole thing together, you're really, you know, made me look at this in a totally different way. Yes. I gotta say, Mitch Kappa, you brought up the. That he was living in a bell tower. I get that. But it was really that Dr. Guts made me rethink. Or makes you all rethink your Team Fred positions. Because I believe that Fred hangs out with a group of imaginary friends. And this would assume that same logic. Okay, so, Dr. Guts, you are right, or you are the winner because you prove me right. And now you get this amazing song from Caleb Gillow. Hit it. Thank you, Caleb. All right, remember, if you want to submit a theme song to us, email your theme to how did this get made? @earwolf.com. please keep them short 15 to 20 seconds. And if you want to chime in with your own thoughts about the latest episode, hit up the discord at discord gg hdtgm. Or call us at 619p a u l a s k. Coming up after the break, Jason and I will chat with Michael Tara Garver about immersive entertainment. So stick around. You know, when you go get your car serviced, it feels like everything is wrong, right? Oh, you need to fix this. You need to get that done. And it just feels like, am I getting taken for a ride? Well, with Midas, you don't have to deal with upsells, intimidation or unnecessary stress from oil changes to tires. Midas provides the services that you need and doesn't pressure you into services that you don't. Midas believes in honest, straightforward auto care that you can Trust. Welcome to AutoCare Without Bad Service. Visit Midus.com for a location near you. Hey, everybody. Just wanted to give you a quick heads up here. There's something we should all be doing. It's going to improve your life, make every day a little bit better. And that is eat more Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. Yes. Think about it. All the gurus, all the coaches out there, they've never said the words eat more Reese's. I mean, the combination of sweet chocolate and salty peanut butter, I mean, this is something that brings other people and ourselves joy. That's why there's two in a pack shop. Reese's Peanut Butter Cups now at a store near you found wherever candy is sold and often in my pantry because I love these. Every memorable gift starts with a story. And what better gift to give this holiday season than giving something that represents pure power, Nature's power. I'm talking about Jefferson's Ocean Bourbon and Jefferson's Ocean Rye. They are aged at sea. They have dealt with elements you could only dream of. You'll taste the journey in every sip. It's darkened by the pounding waves, it's kissed by ocean air, and it's caramelized by equatorial heat. Give the gift of adventure. Give Jefferson's Ocean Bourbon and Jefferson's Ocean Rye. Please sip responsibly. Copyright 2023 Jefferson's Bourbon Co. Crestwood, Kentucky. All right, people. You know, every Monday we are releasing old how did this get made Episodes back into our feed. This week's matinee Monday was the Adventures of Pluto Nash with Jessica Sinclair and Linda Parham. So keep on checking out our replays of classic episodes every Monday. And without any further ado, now it is time for just Chat with Jason and our guest Michael. Tara Garver. John Cohen play us in what's up Jerks? It's time for Just Chat with Paul Scheer and Jason Manzoukas. So, Michael, I want to have you kind of tell us about what you do because in trying to put it together, even in describing it to other people, I was having a hard time and I didn't want to, like, say too much, too little, give you too much credit. Take away too much credit. So I wanted you to kind of let us know because I am so excited for this conversation. But I want you to set the table for Us in what you do.

Michael Tara Garver (16:59)

Okay. The first thing that I do is I usually explain what I do because, you know, like, it's a weird, unique space that in a weird way, I started doing 25 years ago. Before we had words like immersive or fandom or collective experiences, we just did it. And about 25 years ago, I was just in Chicago making theater and art and trying to figure out how to make a business out of it. And so started making these immersive experiences as part of an art form, as part of, like, how to bring comedy. I was really obsessed with live music. How do we make that even into more of an experience of live music? So anyway, cut two. I make large scale immersive experiences everywhere that connect digital and physical. So most recently, I was the director of immersive experience for the Star Wars Galactic Star Cruiser, which we should absolutely talk about.

Jason Mantzoukas (17:52)

Amazing. Yes. Would love. Would love to hear every.

Michael Tara Garver (17:55)

Some of my fandom. Fandom paraphernalia is in the back right there.

Jason Mantzoukas (18:01)

Is that a lightsaber hilt?

Michael Tara Garver (18:03)

That is a lightsaber hilt. I was gifted by the ship as the General Organa. Whoa.

Jason Mantzoukas (18:09)

Do you know what color your Kyber crystal is?

Michael Tara Garver (18:12)

I'm purple.

Jason Mantzoukas (18:13)

Okay. Okay. Mace Windu.

Paul Scheer (18:15)

Yeah, I love it.

Michael Tara Garver (18:17)

So I've done everything from that to I made a project years ago in Boston called Fornicated, which started with text and led to live rock shows. And we could do it with a different band every night. And it was about kind of the fandom of rock show music. And then I'd get hired by the UN to make the museum of international drug policy.

Jason Mantzoukas (18:37)

So that's an immersive drug policy experience.

Michael Tara Garver (18:41)

Correct? That is what that is.

Jason Mantzoukas (18:43)

So you're really digging in on mandatory minimums.

Michael Tara Garver (18:47)

What that is is like, how do you have many people with many languages and many different points of view in one space and give them ways to communicate with each other? So for Disney, I was a consultant for Imagineering, and I traveled and did international projects for them of, like, how to make collective experiences. And then I think a lot about fandom, like your fandom, I think is like, podcasts have some of the strongest and coolest fandom.

Jason Mantzoukas (19:16)

The worst.

Paul Scheer (19:18)

It's balcony monsters.

Michael Tara Garver (19:20)

I know, right? And then. But, like, how that happens, it's because we're. You're in our ears and in our brains.

Paul Scheer (19:25)

Yeah.

Michael Tara Garver (19:26)

So I think a lot about that make experiences. Now I run Culture House Immersive, which is an entertainment studio, black, brown, female owned, which is to build this entertainment kind of as a leading Way to lead entertainment and to give creators more of a stake in the ownership.

Paul Scheer (19:43)

You know, it's so interesting because I have been excited about immersive entertainment for a long time. I think it's a. It's a wonderful evolution of things that we see and we want to interact with, but also it gives you a reason to get out of the house. Right. I think for a lot of people it's like, oh, like you can't experience this anywhere else. And you know, I think the first time my mind was blown was by like, Sleep no More and going to this thing that had no. It did have a beginning, middle and end, but your beginning, middle and end could be completely different. I went there three times and enjoyed it in three completely different ways. And that was really like, mind blowing to me. To be in this place that you like, the want was to get lost, to find your way, to find and.

Jason Mantzoukas (20:30)

That to be experiencing something and be able to make active choices. Yes. Inside of receiving a narrative, receiving a story or something like that, to be able to feel as though you have choices, you have agency inside of the event is kind of amazing. And it really gets at play. It really gets at that idea of play.

Michael Tara Garver (20:55)

Well, and the permission. So I was one of the original directors on Sleep no More in Boston and some of the permission of, you know, as adults, I know, like, it's weird to play. It's weird to feel permission to play if there aren't children around.

Paul Scheer (21:09)

Right.

Michael Tara Garver (21:10)

And so like. And also we all play differently. And so a lot of the work I focus on is like, also how do we create work where people who are not comfortable with others can have a way to slowly transition into play? Because that's some of the hard stuff with theme parks. Right. Like, it's for the front row, not necessarily the eighth row.

Paul Scheer (21:29)

Well, this is I guess the question that I wasn't going to think to ask right away, but how do you deal with that people in the sense that.

Jason Mantzoukas (21:38)

Right.

Paul Scheer (21:40)

You know, you see it a lot of times, you know, when you're on stage, you can experience it. People come to shows with different energies. I've been to many a Halloween themed event and.

Michael Tara Garver (21:55)

Right.

Paul Scheer (21:55)

And I think part of it is like bringing you in. But then where is that line drawn? And how do you teach the people in the immersive space to draw that line? Because it is still like in. It's a sacred space. You're not going into these. You know, these people are actors, they're performers. Like, is that something that you think a lot about and trying to like, also draw the line, bring them in, but also keep them out to a certain degree.

Michael Tara Garver (22:19)

I don't think about keeping them out. I think about creating. But I understand exactly what you're saying. I think about like, there's this craft that actually hasn't been mined very much. Right. It's the craft I'm slightly obsessed with, which is how do we create pathways for people to enter where we give them. I call it directed freedom. So they have ways to put their energy forward. And you have to train performers in that. I think narrative helps a lot. So we build large scale, multi narrative. Right. That's the thing I've been doing. When you go to a haunted house, right. There's one path. You're going on a path and the only real response you have the agency to make is no or like push someone. Right?

Paul Scheer (23:04)

Right.

Michael Tara Garver (23:05)

You don't have many options. You can kind of move forward through the thing. And so as human beings, without those ways of participating differently, I think we're setting ourselves up for a lot of challenges. Right. The same time when you go to an experience and it's like free for all, then the same thing happens. So I spend most of my time thinking about that. But starcruiser is the highest and best example of like getting to build that where I just came back from. I mean, I can speak about it, but our fandom are all people who are not fans of Star Wars. They're fans of that experience because they could participate differently.

Paul Scheer (23:40)

Well, this is so exciting because that was the kind of the promise of the premise of the new Star wars world. And then this hotel was going to be attached to that world. And I think in the beginning there was going to be some more interactive games. But I remember that I was at Disneyland when they were trying to play with the immersive in the frontier land. Like they had like a dead. Like they had a day where they would like they actually were just trying to see if you can engage in a theme park differently. And from what I heard, and I tried to get on that cruiser, I tried to get in that hotel in those final days when the reservations were going before it closed. I'm so upset that it's closed because it also seems so kind of amazing. Like, talk to us about, like, how you even approached that. Like, because it's like very corporate. And I also think of immersive as being very. I hate this term, but I'm gonna use it punk rock. Right? Like, I mean, I think it's like a little Bit more like it's not following those rules.

Michael Tara Garver (24:35)

So I got a phone call just to give you context. People have been working on this ship, which is a hotel, an experience. It's like all the things, all the technology for about six years. And I got a phone call nine months before it opened.

Paul Scheer (24:48)

Wow.

Michael Tara Garver (24:48)

And they were like, hey, could you be here in three weeks? And I was not a Star wars fan, so I think that should be the context here.

Paul Scheer (24:58)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael Tara Garver (24:59)

But I'm usually like a fan of fandoms. So when I get hired to do a job, I, like, immerse myself. And then I make sure there's a lot of experts around me. Like, there's a T shirt behind me that says bleep. Bloop. Star Wars. Because I would be in a scene, writing a scene, I'd be like, what's the bleep loop over there? And someone smarter than me would say, sure. So the thing about building that was it had every single tool you could ever imagine. Everything from holograms to ability to have your phone, have communication from characters that was triggered off of actual conversations you were having. So you were fully in it. But the power of it, the power that has been responded, was the design of how we built the story and the performers. And so we integrated that with all the technology and you became necessary and not like in a. Like you're necessary. And then it's 15 minutes later and the asteroids are gonna come no matter what. Literally, the thing you did in the front of the bridge of the ship, if you hit an asteroid, and I was in my room in my cabin on the side that asteroid in real time went by the ship and I saw it.

Paul Scheer (26:13)

Wow. Whoa.

Michael Tara Garver (26:14)

Now, I didn't know that.

Jason Mantzoukas (26:15)

Now you wouldn't know how or why, but nonetheless, everybody is participating in the same narrative.

Michael Tara Garver (26:22)

Everybody is connected. And when you start to make a world that way, Right. Like, we feel it. Like I always say what people want when they hire me is like that feeling. They want to feel, like really present where they are and connected to something larger. That's it.

Jason Mantzoukas (26:39)

Just that.

Michael Tara Garver (26:39)

And there's a craft of that. Right. So like. Or if you went upstairs and you saw Chewbacca come out the launch pad, someone else downstairs helped him get on the ship through the engineering room at the exact same time.

Paul Scheer (26:56)

Oh, wow.

Michael Tara Garver (26:58)

So it's all that and it's 46 hours of that.

Jason Mantzoukas (27:02)

And is there a forward moving narrative that starts at a specific time and ends at a specific time and everybody similar, I guess, to Sleep no more Everybody can kind of at their own choosing, with their own agency, choose to opt in or out of all of these events, or is it just happening more passively to them?

Michael Tara Garver (27:24)

So you're implicated in it from the beginning. This is one of the big things I think about, which is, like, why I do work in rock concerts, right? We know how to behave there. We know how to show up. And then if another thing happens around us and invites us from that known behavior, we'll do it. So we were all, you're all passengers on a cruise. You board the cruise. You just happen to be taking a cruise into space and a spaceship, you take off, you see your launch pad from Orlando up into the ship, and you watch yourself take off and go to this ship. And when you enter, you're a passenger on a luxury cruise line and you're told, look, it's a dangerous time in the galaxy, but don't worry, we'll take care of you. And then the First Order enters the ship during the muster, which is what launches a cruise, right? And you are implicated because, you know, even if you disagree, even if you work for the First Order, or you work for the Resistance, or you work for this, like, do the heist, which is reclaiming a stone for the Ryloth people. You are implicated because you're trying to save the ship. And all of these questions of, like, how do we care about each other and still disagree become a part of it. And so, like, at dinner, you watch stormtroopers walk by and you're under occupation. And so you have a choice when the Beyonce of the galaxy sings to, like, to care. I mean, you're right. It's very different than sleep. No more in that narrative, is its core.

Jason Mantzoukas (28:54)

Got it.

Michael Tara Garver (28:55)

Right.

Jason Mantzoukas (28:55)

Yes.

Michael Tara Garver (28:55)

And many narratives are its core, but you're not. You could engage in that just because you're having a drink at the bar and you see something happen.

Paul Scheer (29:02)

I did an event like this in LA one time with some friends, and you had, like, missions that you had to do. And if you did it or if you didn't do it, it really affected the end of the show. I saw it again. I saw it twice. Whenever I see something like this, I want to see it twice, because I want to see where, just as a fan of it, where the railings are and how much it can change. Is there a world in which people didn't want to go to sleep in this Star wars cruiser? Like, I mean, they're like, is there 24 hour content or 40, you know, like, or the entire time or do things shut down.

Michael Tara Garver (29:32)

Nothing shut down. But like on a cruise we went to bed, right? And I mean, that's the crazy part. They went into their cabin and they went to bed. And my job was building, I think, unfortunately tell narratives in spreadsheets. So there's like 600 stories that are happening that all could go in different directions. And so I knew when I had physical performers to create those stories. And then, you know, so at night, on the first night, the droid gets captured. And so if you walked upstairs at 4 in the morning, you would still see the droid captured to the thing and them being part and like that happening, right? That is still happening. And so we have things that you launch in story that it makes sense that it's happening overnight. So you can see the seeds of that throughout. And like if you go to the bridge at 9am, it's a very different thing than when you go to the bridge at 9pm but it's still there and we're still in space in real time where we said we would be.

Jason Mantzoukas (30:32)

How cool. I love it.

Paul Scheer (30:35)

Talking Pictures, the podcast from TCM and Max is back with a new season. Here hosts Ben Mankiewicz in intimate conversations with the people who live to make us laugh. Carol Burnett, Bill Murray, Paul Scheer, Henry Winkler and more all. Join Ben to talk about the movies that made them. Talking Pictures isn't just about film. It's about the powerful role movies play in our lives. It's about where you were, who you were with and what you were feeling. Listen to Talking Pictures on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. You already love DoorDash and now there's even more to love with the new DoorDash Dash Pass annual Plan benefit. All right, here it is. Drumroll, please. Max with ads is now included at no extra cost. That means you can have dinner delivered with DoorDash and settle in for a night on the couch watching the HBO original series House of the Dragon. Plus, while you're watching Gotham's own Oz COBB and the HBO's original series the Penguin, you can enjoy some New York City pizza or soft pretzel with DoorDash. And if you're rewatching Friends, don't be surprised if those coffee shop scenes make you crave having a latte delivered fast. Of course, you still get all your favorite Dash Pass Annual Plan benefits too, like unlimited zero dollar delivery fees on eligible orders and exclusive member only offers and menu items. Sign up for DashPass annual plan and get Max included at no extra cost. It's your door to More terms and conditions apply. Max is now included with your DashPass annual plan. Stream Max with ads up to $120 value included at no extra cost. Terms apply. See doordash.com max for details. With big wireless providers, what you see is never what you get. Somewhere in between the store and the first month's bill, the price just magically skyrockets. What happened there? Well, with Mint Mobile, you'll never have to worry about Gotchas again. When mint mobile says 15 bucks a month when you purchase a three month plan, they mean it. Now I gotta tell you, our producer Scott recently got fed up after noticing another surprise fee from his big wireless provider. And then he made the switch to Mint Mobile. He says not only is his new plan way cheaper, but now he knows exactly how much he pays every month, straight up. To get this new customer offer and a new 3 month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com hdtgm that's mint mobile.com hdtgm cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com hdtgM $45 upfront payment fee required. Equivalent to $15 a month. New custom customers on first 3 month plan only. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Well, now my question is this. You have like 100 rooms in there, right? This is a hundred different families, right? Going into this thing, I'm mad that this thing, I feel like it didn't get its proper due, right? It was open from March 1st to like September 30th, 2022 to 2023. And like, my thought was like, well, you should open it up like three times a year and just do this event three times a year and then get people in, you know, or what do you think in looking at such a large scale thing under such a big banner, like, what were the lessons that you learned about that that you're bringing into what you're doing now at Culture House too?

Michael Tara Garver (33:54)

Well, like, to go back to the corporate question, I'll just say that, right? Which is like Disney has a structure, it's worked really well for them. They open theme parks. Lots of people come. It takes a certain type of operations. This project was successful. Like when they announced it was selling out or they were closing it, it sold out in four hours. Like, yeah, I mean, it's bananas and it is things I can't say, but it is a. It was very highly successful for guests.

Paul Scheer (34:23)

That's what I've heard. I've only heard a plus, like, thumbs.

Michael Tara Garver (34:27)

Up, like, when I tell you there's a fandom for this that just sold out the fan convening, that they organized twice over and then had a waiting list the size of the list to go to this con that is just. The ship is called the Halcyon. Called the Halcyon. That's it.

Paul Scheer (34:44)

Wow.

Michael Tara Garver (34:45)

Exactly. And so I think that all corporations, Disney included, are trying to figure out how to participate with their fandoms differently. Like, they're not set up to participate with their fandoms in this way. In a way where it's generative. In a way where. And so I think there's that. I think that how I build the work, I think about how we're building it at Culture House is like, you need many different ways to experience a big investment. So you need a half day, you need a one day, you need a two day. So that there's different ways to come on. And that also might have changed the narrative that was marketed, which is that it was a hotel and it was well beyond that. And the. And like, I believe we don't need every experience to be $5,000.

Paul Scheer (35:32)

Right.

Michael Tara Garver (35:32)

Yeah, that was. That was not.

Paul Scheer (35:34)

Yeah, that's big. Yeah.

Jason Mantzoukas (35:35)

That's a tough barrier to entry for. For this experience is totally.

Michael Tara Garver (35:40)

Exactly. And also, it's less than people pay for a cruise at Disney. But it. But if it's a new experience, it's really hard to, you know, so.

Paul Scheer (35:49)

Well, you're also doing something that's kind of crazy. Right. Which is you're going to the number one vacation destination and you're saying, hey, don't for. Yeah, I know that there's like a tram where you go into the galaxy's edge, but you're basically saying, don't go there. And you have to almost carve out like, two days where you're not doing. I mean, it's a tricky mindset for people who have. Yeah, yeah.

Jason Mantzoukas (36:13)

Because, like, we're talking about sleep no more or some of these other things. These are the event you go to.

Michael Tara Garver (36:18)

Yep.

Jason Mantzoukas (36:18)

This is your hotel. And it's a very hard thing to switch your brain into being like, no, no, the. The. I'm going to the hotel to stay in the hotel to be part of a story, you know? And this gets into a real blurring of the lines that I feel like is really a part of what you have been. It sounds like baked into from the beginning, which is like the. The audience as not just receivers of an event, but the participants of.

Michael Tara Garver (36:46)

Yeah, well, and what does it mean? And part and that for me. So I'm an eighth row person. Like, I'm not a participator. I'm shy, actually, and kind of awkward when I go into a room and like, I want us also. I think the other reason that this was unique was that we were designing it. It was designed that you could literally, like, there are some amazing stories of people who sat quietly in the atrium watching everything. And then a performer would come sit next to them and then like, sit next to them four different times. And then the fifth time, that person would look at them and be like, I'm scared. Like grown men.

Jason Mantzoukas (37:22)

Wow.

Michael Tara Garver (37:23)

Like, they would share something because the relationship had been developed. Right. Which is what I believed could happen. But if someone had gone right up to them and been like, how do you feel? What can we do? They would have been like. They would have shut down.

Jason Mantzoukas (37:35)

Sure.

Michael Tara Garver (37:35)

Right. So I do think the lines there are muddy, are complicated, but there's a craft. And that's the part that, like, I call it immersive involvement. Now, I didn't have words before. Right now it's what I can call it.

Jason Mantzoukas (37:48)

How interesting.

Michael Tara Garver (37:48)

But yeah, I think more of the work, you know, I've used it to help design everything from an event and how to think about how to welcome people in when they're not. Priya Parker, if you've ever read her book the Art of Gathering, she's incredible. It's so good. But like that thinking about how all of us who don't really know how to human well together need help.

Paul Scheer (38:12)

Yeah.

Michael Tara Garver (38:13)

And so if that can be done in entertainment. I think the thing with starcruiser was it was doing something actually, you're kind of right. Like punk rock and revolutionary inside a container that was hard for Disney to know how to talk about that.

Paul Scheer (38:28)

Right, right.

Jason Mantzoukas (38:28)

There was something about. And I can't remember when he started it, and I'm sure you'll know. Do you know Charlie Todd's improv everywhere that he has done for many years, There was something about that was like. I feel like one of the first times that I felt like I understood or saw someone take the audience out of the seats and make them the participants and the receivers of a show that was still happening, but now it was happening on the streets of New York. Now it was happening. It was taking the show out of the confines of the space and making the participants not just passive receivers, but they have agency. They can operate inside of the thing. Even if there is this macro umbrella. And that is particularly exciting. You know, it feels again, like we were talking about. It feels like we're all doing a play, we're all putting on a show, we all get to do it.

Michael Tara Garver (39:21)

You know, we all matter. Right? Yeah, that's the other piece.

Jason Mantzoukas (39:25)

But that's a danger. That's a dangerous lesson to teach the audience that they matter.

Michael Tara Garver (39:29)

Oof.

Jason Mantzoukas (39:29)

Boy. Boy, do I not like that.

Michael Tara Garver (39:31)

If you don't have boundaries, it's at 100% dangerous.

Paul Scheer (39:34)

I think that that's kind of like what we. Jason and I started off at the Upright Citizens Brigade, which started in Chicago, and they did a whole show where they took the audience out into the street and worked around the street. And there were all these, like, big things that became like, you know, they. I think they saw suicide. And then Adam McKay tells a story about how they set up a fake, like, Pepsi executive at Navy Piercing and did like a Q and A with the audience and stuff. You know, so it's like, it is an interesting way to engage with people. And I guess the question is, you've come from these seminal things, these giant. Like, if you don't know anything about immersive theater, you've heard of Sleep no More, I would imagine, but you definitely probably have heard of the Star Wars Hotel. What's next and where? And you are now at this company, Culture House, developing more of these, or where is it going? Like, what's the future hold?

Jason Mantzoukas (40:21)

What's exciting to you now about this? Yes, I guess.

Michael Tara Garver (40:24)

Well, so pre Covid even, this is the largest growing entertainment space ever. It's growing at like 30% financially. So, like, when you think about the fact that I'm here in LA and I have friends in television and film who are like, this whole industry is changing. I think I should have more agency, I think I should have more ownership. Part of this also for me is really a cultural thing of how do we start and launch utilizing this immersive entertainment platform or this way of making things and let it so that people can own their content and then they can make it into a TV series, they can make it into a film, but they hold on to more of the content from the outset. So we're launching. We just. We raised some money for an incubator. We're incubating 20 plus immersive experiences. Everything from. And when we do it, we develop out the universe. So we have a project, Layla and the Starship Afrotopia. And it was originally an animated series outlined, received from a Woman named Jemi Youssef. And I looked at it and I was like, well, what if we made the whole universe and there's a band Ain't Afraid that is connected to the story? And what if you could go to their concert on Afrotopia, the spaceship, and what if that's the way you engaged with it? And then we start releasing the animated pieces and what does that do about Jumai's ownership of that content and that world and the merchandise and all of those things? So we're looking at it that way. We have another project called Fair F a I R E that is a Renaissance festival, but also we're filming a series backstage where, like, this came from my Disney time. Like the absurdity of, like, backstage in an.

Jason Mantzoukas (42:08)

Sure.

Michael Tara Garver (42:08)

In those things. Right. But also you could end up following kind of the story of like Bob the actor. Or you could go with Bob the blacksmith. Right. Who's Now.

Jason Mantzoukas (42:20)

Yeah. You know, you could choose to be behind the scenes or participate. Oh, that's cool.

Paul Scheer (42:25)

That's great.

Michael Tara Garver (42:25)

So thinking about what I like to think about is the ways we already know how to participate and then kind of expand that. Right, right. And think about how then that lets us tell stories in different ways. Many stories. And from there, like, we get excited about how that expands to other media, podcasts, all of those things.

Jason Mantzoukas (42:47)

Sure. When we do the how did this get made convention, and it's a week long, a weekend long convention that you've built a 48 hour, insane, immersive experience that includes all of the movies that we've done in the past and all of our fans get to experience it. That's gonna be where it really takes it to the next level.

Michael Tara Garver (43:06)

Look, I'm signed up. Like, I cannot wait to make all. That's the thing, right. Is you can do many things all at once.

Paul Scheer (43:14)

Yeah.

Jason Mantzoukas (43:14)

But I still want to be a Jedi, if that's cool.

Michael Tara Garver (43:17)

That's totally cool. And also, you know, you look at things like the sphere, or you look at things even like Taylor Swift and bracelets. Like, it's happening everywhere. It's all part of that same desire and need for coming together. So the how did this get made? Immersive experience is on its way.

Paul Scheer (43:33)

All right, that's it. The Drop Dead Fred room. The Drop Dead Fred part of it is going to be really controversial. This is so amazing. Now, for people who are fans of this or intrigued by you, where can they follow you or find out more, you know, what can they do?

Michael Tara Garver (43:47)

Yeah, they can follow us at Culturehousemedia and then I am on Instagram and I am TGExperience. OK. Those are my initials.

Paul Scheer (43:57)

Thank you so much. And please come back when you have something cool to tell us about because we'd love to hear what's up next.

Michael Tara Garver (44:05)

I would love that. Thank you guys, so much.

Paul Scheer (44:07)

Thank you.

Jason Mantzoukas (44:07)

Thank you, Michael.

Paul Scheer (44:08)

Thank you, Michael, for chatting with us. But now it is finally time to announce our next movie. Okay, we are going to go from New York City snow globes to New York City monster probes. Yes, that's right. Next episode, we will be watching the 1982 campy monster movie Q the Winged Serpent, starring David Carradine, Michael Moriarty, Candy Clark, and Richard Roundtree. Oh, I cannot wait. Here is a breakdown of the plot. A petty swindler accidentally intrudes on a New York Police Department murder case involving a winged deity Monster. That's right. A swindler intrudes on an NYPD murder case with a monster. Oh, I can't wait. Rotten Tomatoes gives this film a 72% score on the tomato meter. And Janet Maslin from the New York Times writes, the only movie in which you may ever see a gnawed, bloody skeleton wearing a gold charm bracelet. Well, look, if you're gonna be eating a winged deity, you're not gonna eat that bracelet. It's bad for your belly. All right, listen to the trailer for Q the Winged Serpent. Q is coming. Q is coming.

Michael Tara Garver (45:25)

Its name is Quetzalcoatl.

Paul Scheer (45:27)

Just call it Q.

Michael Tara Garver (45:30)

That's all you'll have time to say.

Paul Scheer (45:32)

Before it tears you apart. Q is coming. Q the Winged Serpent is available to stream on Peacock, Amazon Prime Video, Tubi, Crackle, Plex, AMC and Shudder. And I encourage you to check out Hoopla, Canopy and Libby, which are digital media services offered by your local public library that allow you to consume movies, TV, music, audiobooks, eBooks, and comics for free. All right, remember, people, how did this get made? And Dinosaur Improv are on the road in November. It's November 15th through the 22nd. Go to hdtgm.com for more information and tickets. That's right, we'll be announcing the movies there. And if you want a personalized copy of my book, head on over to hdtgm.com and I'll put a little link right there on the front page. All right, that's it, people. If you listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please rate and review us. Please also make sure you're following us and have automatic downloads turned on. It helps the show and we appreciate it. You can visit us on social media at HDTGM. And I want to shout out the Action Jackson 5 for making our opening theme song. And a big thank you to our producers Scott Sahny and Molly Reynolds and our movie picking producer Avril Halle, our associate producer Jess Cisneros and our engineer Casey Holford. We'll see you next week for Q. The Winged Serpent the kind of burgers you get today tells you a lot about yourself. You're either someone who settles for sad, same old same old burgers or you're at a Carl's Juice Jr obsessed with.

Jason Mantzoukas (47:16)

A tangy OG Western bacon cheeseburger, demanding.

Paul Scheer (47:19)

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