Last Looks: You Got Served w/ Larry Charles

Summary

Podcast Summary: How Did This Get Made? – Episode: Last Looks: You Got Served w/ Larry Charles

Release Date: June 20, 2025

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Introduction

In this vibrant episode of "How Did This Get Made?" titled "Last Looks: You Got Served w/ Larry Charles," hosts Paul Scheer and Jason Mantzoukas delve deep into the intricacies of the cult classic dance movie "You Got Served." The episode not only dissects the film through listener corrections and omissions but also features an insightful conversation with comedy legend Larry Charles.

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Corrections and Omissions: You Got Served

The segment begins with Paul Scheer inviting listeners to contribute corrections and omissions regarding the movie "You Got Served." Engaging with their audience via Discord, Paul and Jason address various fan inputs that shed new light on behind-the-scenes moments and historical contexts of the film.

• Technical Scene Clarifications:

  • ASG 1982 questions the setting of the rain dance practice scene, suspecting it to be outdoors despite appearing to be inside a warehouse. Paul responds thoughtfully, discussing the practicalities of filming and lighting, ultimately affirming the outdoor setting with historical lighting references. (03:50)

• Casting and Script Details:

  • Dr. Guts1003 reveals that "You Got Served" was initially intended to star Aaliyah and Gavin Houston, with a different title, highlighting the tragic impact of Aaliyah's untimely death on the film's development. Paul acknowledges the sensitivity around this information, appreciating the factual input while maintaining the show's positive atmosphere. (04:18)

• Financial Dynamics in Dance Battles:

  • Anna provides an analytical breakdown of the film's $5,000 dance battle, elucidating the financial stakes and proposed profit-sharing between the competing teams. Paul concurs with Anna's interpretation, emphasizing the strategic risk undertaken by the characters. (09:17)

• Behind-the-Scenes Insights:

  • Billy, a former PA on "You Got Served," confirms the use of a body double for the character Little Kim, recounting the challenges faced during filming, such as scheduling conflicts and set discipline enforced by the assistant director. (14:03)

• Actor Analysis:

  • J Bro theorizes that a seemingly LAPD officer character is actually a high-ranking gang member, pointing out the reuse of the same actor and mannerisms in key scenes. Paul is impressed by this nuanced observation, appreciating the depth it adds to the narrative analysis. (15:54)

These interactions not only enrich the understanding of "You Got Served" but also demonstrate the podcast's commitment to engaging with its audience's insights.

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Interview with Larry Charles

The heart of the episode features an in-depth conversation with Larry Charles, a prolific screenwriter, director, and producer renowned for his work on "Seinfeld," "Curb Your Enthusiasm," "Borat," and "The Dictator." Larry also brings his newly released memoir, Comedy Samurai: 40 Years of Blood, Guts, and Laughter, into the discussion.

1. Larry's Career Highlights:

   • Paul Scheer introduces Larry Charles, highlighting his extensive contributions to comedy both in television and film. From shaping the character of Kramer in "Seinfeld" to collaborating with Sacha Baron Cohen on iconic films, Larry's influence is profound. (22:44)

2. Collaboration with Top Comedians and Actors:

   • Larry praises Jason Mantzoukas as a "comedy samurai," noting his collaborative spirit and ability to adapt across diverse creative projects. They discuss Jason's work on "The Dictator" and "Army of One," emphasizing the trust and mutual respect that underpin their professional relationships. (23:07)

3. Story about Bob Dylan:

   • Jason shares a personal anecdote about meeting Bob Dylan, illustrating Dylan's enigmatic and spontaneous nature. The story highlights the organic and trust-based relationship between Jason and Dylan, showcasing Larry's role in facilitating such unique collaborations. (25:50)

   Jason Mantzoukas (25:50): "He trusts himself. He trusts his instincts. That's just the key with him."

4. Release of "Army of One" Cut on YouTube:

   • Jason discusses the challenges he faced in releasing his preferred cut of "Army of One" due to conflicts with producers, particularly Bob Weinstein. Through perseverance and support from the DGA, Jason was able to publish his original vision of the film on YouTube, contrasting sharply with the altered version available elsewhere. Larry commends this achievement, recognizing the artistic integrity it represents. (41:16)

5. Philosophy on Comedy and Directing:

   • The conversation delves into Larry's approach to directing and comedy, emphasizing the importance of entering "forbidden territory" to elicit genuine and powerful laughter. Jason echoes this sentiment, advocating for comedy that provokes deep emotional responses, akin to the collective experience of watching a horror movie.

   Jason Mantzoukas (46:30): "If you could get comedy out of something that isn't funny, that's the place where the audience can finally liberate themselves and release all those emotions and laugh in a way they normally don't laugh at things."

6. Discussion on "Comedy Samurai" Book:

   • Larry Charles elaborates on his memoir, sharing that it offers an unfiltered glimpse into his 40-year journey in comedy. The book covers his collaborations, creative processes, and personal anecdotes, providing fans and aspiring comedians with valuable insights. Paul and Jason commend the book's honesty and storytelling prowess, highlighting its appeal to comedy enthusiasts.

   Paul Scheer (62:49): "It's so much bigger on both sides of it and continues to grow. And it's sort of not even a career book because, like you said, your career is still going. You're very active, you're doing a bunch of stuff."

7. Recommendations:

   • To wrap up the interview, Jason recommends the obscure 1960s black-and-white comedy "The Loved One," praising its unique take on the funeral industry in Los Angeles. Larry encourages listeners to explore such hidden gems to broaden their comedic horizons. (64:47)

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Conclusion and Upcoming Episode Teaser

As the episode concludes, Paul and Jason announce the upcoming review of "Surf 2," promising an entertaining analysis of this quirky surf saga. They encourage listeners to rate and review the podcast on their preferred platforms and express gratitude to their production team.

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Key Takeaways

• Engagement with Audience Insights: The hosts adeptly incorporate listener feedback, enhancing the discussion around "You Got Served" with fresh perspectives and lesser-known facts.

• Larry Charles' Influence: The interview underscores Larry's pivotal role in shaping modern comedy, his dedication to artistic integrity, and his ability to foster meaningful collaborations.

• Philosophy on Comedy: Emphasizing the power of comedy to evoke deep, reflexive laughter, the conversation advocates for bold and innovative comedic endeavors that push boundaries.

• Resilience in Creative Control: Jason Mantzoukas' experience with "Army of One" serves as a testament to the importance of maintaining creative vision and the lengths one can go to preserve it.

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Notable Quotes

• Jason Mantzoukas (01:59): "It wasn't fun like a gay parade. I'd rather dig my own grave than watch it again."

• Larry Charles (22:07): "I feel like, Larry, you are. You attract people. You're an incredible collaborator."

• Jason Mantzoukas (25:20): "I want the audience to lose control, like in a horror movie. Instead of screaming, I want people to be laughing on that same level."

• Paul Scheer (46:30): "If you could get comedy out of something that isn't funny, that's the place where the audience can finally liberate themselves and release all those emotions and laugh in a way they normally don't laugh at things."

• Jason Mantzoukas (43:27): "That's incredible."

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Final Thoughts

"Last Looks: You Got Served w/ Larry Charles" is a compelling episode that blends fan interaction with expert insights, offering a multifaceted exploration of a beloved yet flawed film. The candid conversation with Larry Charles provides invaluable lessons on creativity, collaboration, and the enduring power of comedy. Whether you're a fan of "You Got Served," an aspiring comedian, or simply appreciate behind-the-scenes stories, this episode delivers rich content with humor and heart.

Transcript

[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

It wasn't sweet like lemonade I'd rather lay on a hand grenade than watch it again.

[Paul Scheer]

Last looks. Look, look. Last, Last look.

[Larry Charles]

How did this get made?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It wasn't fun like a gay parade I'd rather dig my own grave than watch it again. Last look French shiner. Look, class.

[Paul Scheer]

Hello all. My story, listeners of America. That's right, S L O A. What's up? By the way, if you are an sloa, make sure that you get yourself a sticker, a mug, a T shirt. We made them after our you got served show. And I love the design. It's a little USA with headphones on. It's great. But by the way, who am I? I'm Paul Scheer and welcome to how did this get made last looks, people. We got so much stuff to get through today, okay? Because this is not an episode about me. No, no, no, no. This is about you because we're going to be hearing about all your corrections and omissions to youo Got Served, which I don't think there could possibly be any because we did such a great job of breaking down every aspect of that film. But I'll open it up. I will look at it just in case. And I am so excited about our guest today. Jason and I are sitting down with a comedy legend, a comedy samurai, if you will. Someone who, you might not know his name, but you definitely know his work from Seinfeld and Curb and Bruno and Borat. Even Bill Maher's religilous and the A24 musical dicks, which I absolutely loved. Larry Charles is joining us. He's gonna talk about the movie I did with him. He's also gonna talk about Bob Dylan. Jason and I are gonna really break it down with Larry, who I think if you are a comedy fan, it is a must. Listen. Now, before we get too far into things, I. I gotta give a big shout out to War Widow. War Widow. You killed it with that opening song. Oh, my gosh. I love these songs. I truly do like. This is the best part of the show for me. And if you have a song that you want to bring to us here on Last Looks, we would love, love to have them. Okay? And if you have any Last look themes, just go to hdtgm.com right? And then you can upload your song right there. We made it even easier for you to upload new songs to the show, but keep them short. Now, people, we are going to go on a little mini tour now, not just how did this get made? Which will be in Vancouver on July 12th. Get your tickets now for Sylvester Stallone's Driven. But Jason and I are going to be in Portland and Seattle with Dinosaur. Mary Holland will be there. Carl Tart will be there. Owen Burke, Chad Carter, Seth Morris, Rob Hubel will be in the house. So check us out in Seattle and Portland and make sure that if you're in the Los Angeles area, you are coming to see all of us at Largo. On June 26th. We will be at Largo. So come see Dinosaur Edie Patterson sitting in. In la. And like I said, on the road, we have a killer crew. Tickets are [e-mail] or just go to hdtgm.com everything is there. You can even get our tickets for Vancouver. Now, if you haven't heard, our amazing movie producer Avril Halley is going through some van very serious treatments. She was diagnosed with brain cancer and she has been overwhelmed by the outpouring of love that everyone has given her in these last few weeks. And you know what? Let's keep on doing it. That's right. We want to pump her up. We want to send her some good vibes. And the best way that you can do that is to send a message to her through her movie bitches partner. That's Andrew at Movie Bitches. Or you can actually send her something in the mail. A little snail mail right to her P.O. box. Nothing perishable, nothing scented. To Avril Halle, P.O. box 641, Agora Hills, California, 91376. I've been blown away by what everyone has been doing. Avril is such a crucial part of our show. We love her so much. And if you can just take 20 seconds out of your day to send an email, take a couple minutes out of your day to send her a piece of snail mail, it would make the world of difference. It's really boosting your spirits and it makes. We're just thankful for all the love. So thank you everybody for stepping up. Now, that's all the plugs I got. So let's get into it. Last week we talked at length about you got served. Well, we had questions and we might have even missed a few things. Here's your chance to set us straight. Fact check us, if you will. It is now time for corrections and omissions. And omission. Thank you. Cool Skull. I like that name too. That is a great name. Cool Skull. Let's go to the discord. ASG 1982 writes. Are we sure in the in the rain dance practice. That scene was outside in the rain because it sure looked to be inside a warehouse or something. I mean, if it's outside in the rain, where is that light that's hanging coming from? Okay, let me tell you something. ASG 1982. Yes, you got a point. There's a light in the alleyway, but that is a light that would. It seems like, you know, one of those, like, back alley lights. I just saw the new Karate Kid movie Legends, which was great. I think that there are back alley lights. Very Dick Tracy kind of old school lighting. I feel like that's kind of Jean Kelly was on a light post that was outside. Okay, there, there are lights. There are lights in back alleys. You have to illuminate it somehow. I look, I do Believe it's out in the rain because I don't think they would make it rain inside a stage, not for this movie. Dr. Guts1003 writes, according to Marquis Houston, who played l, the movie was originally going to be called dance, and it was going to star genuine and Aaliyah. However, after Aaliyah's untimely death, the film got reworked to what it ultimately became. Well, yeah, Dr. Guts, we know that. I didn't bring it up because you want to bum us out about Aaliyah, who just was hot off of queen of the damned, who died very tragically and very young. I didn't want to bring that up to bring us down. That's what I do. I don't need to bring us down. But you did. It's good information. I appreciate it, but you're not winning this week. You're not. You're not winning by bumming us out. Now. Anna writes, I looked up the script and I read the discussion about the $5,000 dance battle, and this is what I think happens. Okay. I love it. Anna is getting into some math. Each team puts up $5,000. So there is $10,000 in the pot, and whoever wins gets to keep it all. Elle and David are putting up the initial 5,000, which they will get back if they win. It's like the deposit to put down at a hotel, which you get back. If you don't damage anything, it cancels itself out. That leaves the other 5,000 in profit for the team. Elle and David are going to take 3000 of the profit, 1500 each. And the rest of the team is have to split the remaining 2,000. Elle and David's argument is that they've already put up something on the line. They've already put up the 5,000. So if they lose, they're losing 5,000. They should get more of the reward because of that. And Sunny thinks they should split the whole 5,000 profit evenly.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now.

[Paul Scheer]

Now, let me tell you, Anna, I was on this page. This is what I was saying. They. They. They need to get. I agree with this. I mean, yes, you explained what I think I was saying very clearly in the show, but maybe I wasn't. And Sunny, he. He lost the screw there because I. I doubt that Sunny is getting an equal split on that other team. Can someone do some research? Can someone figure that it was Sunny promised an equal split on the other team? Maybe because he was bringing dance moves, he would upgrade his cut. I would buy that, but I would not buy that if he wasn't bringing Something to the table. That was extra. Anyway, let's go to the phones. Liz from Wisconsin.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Hey, Paul, it's Liz.

[Paul Scheer]

This is about you Got Served, which.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I admit I haven't seen. However, I was listening to the episode.

[Larry Charles]

And I felt like you might have.

[Paul Scheer]

Missed something big and mysterious when you talked a lot about Will Saint and his death. And then you were talking about the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Weird door at the one guy's house.

[Larry Charles]

And how there's this symbol on it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And you were theorizing about what could that symbol mean.

[Paul Scheer]

And you all mentioned the New Orleans.

[Larry Charles]

Saints logo and why would they have.

[Paul Scheer]

A Saints logo in la.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I was like, ooh, maybe.

[Paul Scheer]

Why are we not coming up with a conspiracy theory that it has something to do with the Little Saints?

[Larry Charles]

Obviously it doesn't really, but I still.

[Paul Scheer]

Thought that was interesting and I'm mentioning it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, you guys agree?

[Paul Scheer]

Bye. All right, Liz from Wisconsin, first of all, love that you have not seen the movie, but you have a hot take. Honestly, it may sound sarcastic that I'm saying that, but it's not. This is the kind of correction and omission I want. You're right. We need to have some sort of New Orleans Saints conspiracy theories here. Not just that maybe they rented a house that had a New Orleans Saint logo on it. I will tell you, I worked seven years on a football show. We could never get the logos to any team ever, even when those team members were on our show. So I did a little Googling to figure out what's going on here. And look, this is a very interesting symbol. There are a lot of connotations to it. The very general one would be like, it's a sign of community, togetherness. But it also has this historical association with slavery because in the French colony of Louisiana, the fleur de lis was used used to brand slaves who attempted to escape as a form of punishment and identification. So there's also interpretations here as a reminder. Never again. So either way, it does have some meaning. I don't know what it does with Little Saint. I mean, unless he's a little saint. Again, more interesting than I thought. Liz, thank you for not watching the movie, but coming in with a hot take. Melissa from Connecticut, what do you got? This is Melissa, longtime listener, first time caller reaching out from Connecticut.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I wanted to touch down on one.

[Paul Scheer]

Particular moment slash person of note. So I think you guys are like, oh, yeah, I'm that choreographer who was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Doing the announcing at the final contest.

[Paul Scheer]

Featuring Lil Kim or maybe Boba Little Kim.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

His name is Wade Robson.

[Paul Scheer]

He also had the 90s hair thing going with, like, the tips and all that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wade Robson is a cultural touchstone for.

[Paul Scheer]

The late 90s, and here is why.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Britney Spears made out with him.

[Paul Scheer]

And while she was with Justin Timberlake, she revealed this in her Tell all book, the Woman and Me. At the time, there were a lot of rumors that Cry me a River, Justin Timberlake's hit single was about that relationship. But it's come to be found out.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That Justin was constantly cheating.

[Paul Scheer]

So Britney does admit that she was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Dancing with him and kissed him.

[Paul Scheer]

Also, Wade Robson, a very good choreographer. He did a ton of NSYNC stuff. Britney Spears, Pepsi commercial, this, that Slave for you music video, which I still know the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The move, so. So I was pretty pumped to see him.

[Paul Scheer]

This whole movie brought me back.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You guys rock.

[Paul Scheer]

Bye. Okay, so this is great. We actually did talk about this in the show. We cut a lot of it out because it was just sort of like we just went off on weird tangents. This was the better way to deliver it. I love it. Yes, I did read that book, or I should say I listened to that book read by Michelle Williams, and it's great. Well, you know what? Honestly, it's not great. It's interesting. Michelle Williams does a great job reading it. I think the book is a little bit too vague. Anyway. Next up, what do we got? Ooh, a good one. Billy, tell me.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Hi, this is Billy. I was a PA on you got Served. And you are absolutely correct that there was a body double for Little Kim. I remember we had her for a day and she was crazy late. So they pulled a woman out of extras holding and dressed her up as Little Kim.

[Paul Scheer]

And I guess she's a method actress.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because at some point she really became Little Kim. Walking around set in a robe, sitting in a director's chair, it was really fascinating to watch her process. Also, Exers holding the first AD had to come down and lecture everybody about not smoking weed and cooking food on Foreman grills. It was crazy up there, but had a lot of fun. Going down memory lane listening to the show. Thanks a lot. Bye.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, yes, yes. King. First of all, George Foreman Grills. What are people doing? Worried about their fat content. I love that George Foreman Grill that was so in and so out. Like it just. That was a shot, man off Foreman grills for those. I just love that you're going around there as people are grilling up very healthy pieces of chicken and burgers. All right, thank you, Billy. All right, now let's go back to the discord I feel overwhelmed by the information we got. I mean really on all sides. We went from society and our history to pop culture history to. Well, I mean, honestly on set behavior in history. We. It was really just history lesson. Jbro writes this. There is a theory about the kids clearing debt with Maurice. In the Movie, we see Mr. A.D. enlist the help of an LAPD officer to provide security for the dance competition with Wade's crew. Later, we see that same actor jump out of the black SUV to nab Elgin when Maurice comes along looking for his money. Watch both scenes carefully.

[Larry Charles]

Ooh.

[Paul Scheer]

Not only is it the same actor, but he repeats the same mannerisms from earlier in the movie as he stands watch at the dance competition and the SUV scene. I think that character was never an LAPD officer, but a high ranking gang member in Maurice's crew who clearly knows Mr. Rad and through their relationship is able to influence Maurice to some degree. Oh yeah. J Bro. J Bro. Now I like this. Wow. This is the first time I've been gobsmacked by a correction in omission. That was great. Okay, this is interesting here. Just a little call out. And I noticed people know that I'm a huge Lost fan and I didn't call it out, but Little Saint was played by Malcolm David Kelly, who was Walt on Lost, but he was also half of the pop duo mkto which you might have heard in their classic song. Classic. Here take a listen to Lil Saint, aka Walt, aka Malcolm David Kelly. He is in under 30 seconds of the entire three minute song. So it's a feature. It's a feature. But by the way, listen to, listen to our friend Walt. A star in the world. 40s center fold in the 50s got me tripping out like 60s queen of the discotech, a 70s dream and an 80s best Heckburn Beyonce, Marilyn Mass girl your Thomas just so. Wow. So many great corrections and omissions this week. But there can only be one that is the best. And I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm not gonna make you wait for it at all. Because there is one person who came in and blew my effing mind. That is J Bro. Bro. J Bro. Wow. Thank you for illuminating us to what is really going on. I wish I could give you something, but I can't. I can give you this song from Mike Cerda. Hit it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You win nothing.

[Paul Scheer]

Now, if you want to chime in with your own thoughts about the latest episode, hit up the discord at Discord. Discord. Or call us at 619 P A U L A S K Coming up after the break, Jason stops by to chat with Larry Charles and myself. We're going to talk about Larry's new book, Comedy Samurai. We're also going to talk about Jason in the Dictator Me, an army of One, and how Larry Charles managed to convince the DGA and New Line to release his cut of the movie years after it has been completed.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

If you went on a road trip and you didn't stop for a Big Mac or drop a crispy fry between the car seats or use your McDonald's bag as a placemat, then that wasn't a road trip. It was just a really long drive.

[Paul Scheer]

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[Larry Charles]

Luck to be hungry on game day.

[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

Race the sails. Race the sails.

[Paul Scheer]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Roger, wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?

[Paul Scheer]

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[Larry Charles]

We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign.

[Paul Scheer]

Get started today at LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. All right, and we are back. Make sure you're listening to our matinee episodes. Okay. Every Tuesday we get a classic episode pulled out of the vault. This week's matinee was Xanadu. Next week will be Speed two Cruise Control with Scott Aukerman. That's right, Hot Saucerman is here. Keep on checking out all of our replays of classic episodes every Tuesday. And without any further ado, it is now time to welcome Jason to Last Looks. For little. Just chat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just chill.

[Paul Scheer]

Just chat. Jason, I am so excited about our guest today. This is a comedy icon, a legend, and a legend that you might not know by name, but you definitely know by work. His name is Larry Charles. He is a screenwriter, a director, a producer. He started off as a standup, worked on the show Fridays, which was a competitor to Saturday Night Live that actually starred Larry David, which, by the way, check it out. Then went on to write jokes for Arsenio hall, then moves into television and becomes a key voice on Seinfeld he is kind of known for crafting a lot of what we love about Kramer. He produces on shows like Mad about yout and Entourage, directs and is very heavily involved in Curb youb Enthusiasm. Has been Emmy and DGA nominated and goes on to work with Sacha Baron Cohen in movies like Bruno and Borat and the Dictator. He directed Jason in the Dictator and me in a Nicolas Cage movie called army of One. He made a movie with Bob Dylan. He worked with Bill Maher on a documentary about religion and very recently directed the A24 musical Dicks. I mean, this is a man who has gone all over the comedy circuit for the last 40 years.

[Larry Charles]

I would say one of the, like, curious agitators of this generation.

[Paul Scheer]

He has just released a memoir called comedy samurai. 40 years of blood, Guts and Laughter. It is everything that you want from a person who has traveled with all of these giantly talented people. He is raw, honest, gives you a true behind the scenes look at what it's like to make these bold, satiric, legendary films. And I just can't wait to talk to him. So without any further ado, please welcome Larry Charles.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. Yes. Well, first of all, thank you for the kind words. I think career. You mentioned my career. And I think one of the things that's important to me is I don't have a career. That's one of the keys to my interesting work is that I'm just flailing and groping and trying to find cool things to do. And that's been the body of work. You know, it just happened to work out. I'm very, very lucky.

[Larry Charles]

I feel like, Larry, you are. You attract people. You're an incredible collaborator. And I will say, like, both Paul and I have been directed by you, and you are a fantastic director, but I think you are an incredible collaborator. And specifically, you are always working. You are someone that people seek out in order to help them do their thing. Whether that person is Sacha Baron Cohen or whether it's Bill Maher or whether it's Larry David. You are someone for whom people are like, I don't know how to do this thing. Maybe Larry does, you know, and that is incredible.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, that's. That's the samurai part of it, you know, going from village to village and trying to save the village, you know, and make the village great again and then moving on, you know, And I. That has kind of happened, you know, inadvertently over the years.

[Larry Charles]

You're a comedic mifune.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's right.

[Paul Scheer]

There's something interesting, though, because each one of these people, if you look at just Larry David, Sacha Baron Cohen and Bill Maher, the fact that you are able to get in with these guys who are very opinionated, very different, and they respect you, what do you think that is? That you are able to, I mean, you, you're a whisperer, too, because you're able to manipulate people who I think, have very strong beliefs of how things should be done. I mean, Jason and I work with Jeff Schaefer for seven years on the league. And, you know, and he has a, and he worked on Seinfeld. You worked on Seinfeld and Curb with him. They want to do things very specifically, but you're able to get in there and, and I think push, but also make them feel like they're not being pushed.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, I'm very open. I, I, I want to discover as much as anybody else does, you know, I don't want to know everything. I want to be surprised. And I think in that respect, I stay very open to the process. I don't force anything. I don't try to make things happen. I try to just kind of absorb what's happening and then direct it in the right place. So it's very much about my integrity, really. I think that all those people trusted me because I am trustworthy when it comes to that. I am not going to compromise anyone's vision. I'm going to add my vision to your vision, and I'm going to take it to the natural place that it's supposed to go.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, then I need to ask this question about Bob Dylan. How does Bob Dylan find you? Because, like, in this world, right, and we talk about it in the book, but like, Bob Dylan goes up. I think I'm gonna write a movie with Larry Charles. Like that is, that is, I mean, again, talking about enigmatic people who are very much in a, in their own shell and know what they want to do. I mean, for him to reach out to you, are you, are you. Imagine you're a fan. But what is that like to work on that level, too?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, he, you know, the thing that's one of the great things. I mean, there's many great things about Bob Dylan we could spend the whole time talking about him is that he doesn't have any pretenses, any sort of assumptions. So he didn't care who I was, if he connected with me. He felt that was sufficient and adequate to move ahead, you know, and so we met that first time at the coffee shop. He wanted to do a half hour comedy, you know, he had been on tour, on the Never Ending Tour. He had a vcr, which was the technology of the time. And he was watching Jerry Lewis movies. I mean, that alone is such a juxtaposition. Bob Dylan laughing at Jerry Lewis movies. And he thought, hey, I could do that. Which is a very presumptuous thing for him. But he wanted to do a half hour comedy. And so they came to me and said, would you be interested in meeting with Bob and talking about a half hour comedy? And I was like, sure, of course. You know, why wouldn't I? But I thought it would be like one meeting. We'd have a cup of coffee, and then I could tell all my friends that I met Bob Dylan. That was the extent of my expectation for that. And I went to the meeting, and at that time, I was wearing pajamas. I wore pajamas for years. I guess I was in some sort of weird space that I was wearing pajamas. And I met him. He had a coffee shop in Santa Monica. He might still have it. And he came out and he was dressed like a homeless guy, which is sort of his look at the time. And we sat down, and the first thing he said. His assistant came over and said, can I get you guys something to drink? And I said, I'll have an iced coffee. And he said, I want something hot. I want a hot beverage. That was like the first thing he said. And they brought the two drinks. And immediately he took my drink, the iced coffee, and started drinking it.

[Larry Charles]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I'm. And now I'm like, in this quandary, you know, do I say something? Do I let it go? You know? And I don't say anything for a while. And finally he actually says to me, why aren't you drinking your drink? And I said, because you stole my drink. And he. He cracks up. And we really started working from that moment on. He never. He. That was it. He just has an organic trust in the process, you know?

[Larry Charles]

And do you think that was for him, like, a bit. Like he was doing a bit with the drinks or see. Or was it a test? Are you going to, you know, come back at him or say, like, I'm so curious about, like. Because Dylan is such an odd character, truly?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. Yes. Well, I think that the answer is yes to everything. Yeah, I think it was a test. I think it was a bit. I think it was inadvertent on some level. On purpose. On some level. I mean, that he is operating. He's one of the few people that I've ever met who's operating on all these levels at once. And so he trusts. He trusts himself. He trusts his instincts. That's just the key with him.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, I guess also, if you can tell Bob Dylan he stole your drink, then you can actually give him a note on any creative project. Right. Because most people wouldn't.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's right.

[Paul Scheer]

Wouldn't admit to that. Right. Like, I'm sure he lives in, like a rarefied air. I heard a great story about Bob Dylan, you know, known for not really speaking in his shows. Right. Like, he just kind of plays his music and goes. And someone said that they went to go see him in concert, this may be like two or three years ago. And in the middle of his set, he stops and goes, anyone see Creed 2? And he's like, great movie, great movie, Great boxing. And then just went back to playing stuff. And I just love that. Like, it was on his mind. Whatever. I know he is into boxing. He has like, you know, he must have just watched that because it was way after Creed 2 had come out. I think Creed 3 had already been out. And so it was like he just caught Creed 2 and wanted to talk.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He probably saw it on the bus. On the bus, behind the coffee shop that we met in that first day was a boxing gym that he owned. And he's heavily into boxing, and he did boxing workouts for years. And we would sit in a cubicle, a closed cubicle in the boxing office. He would chain smoke cigarettes for 12 hours a day. We would sit and write in this kind of cloud filled cubicle. And so that's. He's. He's very connected to Box. Of course. He wrote the great song Hurricane.

[Larry Charles]

Yep.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Which is about Reuben Carter. So he's. He loves. He loves boxing. Or at least he used to. Anyway. The story that reminds me. My story that reminds me of that story is sitting with him and writing. And it's true, at a certain point, that got comfortable enough to give him a note, and he would bring in little pieces of paper with like a monologue or a line or a name of a character. And one day he was like. He had this line, I'm not a pig without a wig. And I was like, you know, Bob, I have to say that even in this weird movie that we're making, that line doesn't make any sense. No one's gonna know what that line means. It's like, no one's gonna understand it. And he just looked at me and went, what's so bad about misunderstanding? And I was like, whoa. Wow. And that's the Kind of logic that he throws out at you that kind of cracks your skull open, you know?

[Larry Charles]

Oh, because we're. Yeah, we're working so hard to make sure what we say can only be understood the way we want it to be.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's been understood. He's done.

[Paul Scheer]

Right? Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's interested now. And what happens when you're not understood? What is the. What is the consequences of that?

[Paul Scheer]

I love that.

[Larry Charles]

Oh, that's so fantastic.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Fascinating guy.

[Paul Scheer]

Now, you also, you know, talking about, like, you and I, we work together with Nick Cage, another interesting guy. Right. And yes, you know, a larger than life person. And, and I feel like there's something about you as you are a writer, you are a director, and you can kind of, I think, talk to people on a lot of different levels. Can you. Do you feel like there is a secret to, to getting people to trust you? Do you feel like it, or, or do you just listen or, like, do you have a technique to kind of engage with these people who might be more suspicious? I know we just talked about that a little bit, but, like, any way to kind of gain that trust and favor so they can kind of give you this performance that they're not being overly conscious of?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's a great question. The answer, though, is I don't have a technique. I am me. And I think that just the natural version of who I am just connects very well with larger than life characters. Growing up in Brooklyn, on the streets, dealing with crazy characters all the time, dealing with intimidating people all the time, I just learned how to find common ground to survive so I wouldn't get my ass kicked, essentially. And I think that that gave me some unique traits that I've been able, luckily, to apply to someone like Nick or Bob or those kind of people.

[Paul Scheer]

But when I first met you, I got to say, I don't know if you felt this Jason too. I was intimidated because the only images I've seen of you, you look like a fucking badass. I mean, you've. You got this beard, you're sometimes wearing a hat like you, you. And like you said, you showed up in like maybe pajamas because you're in that. That, like, you just didn't know what you were going to get. And I was like, oh, man, I don't want to upset this guy. And you are exactly who you are in this interview. You're just very down to earth, very funny, and you don't take yourself seriously, but there is a presence to you. If, if we were just to put pictures of you up, you'd be like, don't fuck with this guy.

[Larry Charles]

Oh, yeah, there's a real. There's a real dark prince of comedy vibe.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Larry Charles]

Off of Elsie, but I remember. But then, like, to Paul's point, like, what a sweetheart you are. Larry. We did. We've done a couple of things together. First, we did a pilot that I'm not going to remember the name of. Forgive me, but it was Ant pilot. And I think it was. What was the guy's name?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Paul.

[Larry Charles]

The star's name was Paul. British guy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, Paul British guy. Right, right.

[Larry Charles]

Anyway, we. We were on. I was doing that, and it was. It was genuinely, like, a very early job for me, and I had my beard and the. I needed to shave my beard for the part, you know, and you pulled me aside beforehand and gave me a real, like, hey, I'm a beard guy, too. Don't worry about, like, you gave me a very sweet conversation that was like. That felt like you were saying, hey, I know I'm asking you to shave your beard, and that's a hassle, and I get that, but. But I appreciate it. It'll be okay. And I was like, wow, what a sweet move. And what a generous thing to do. And, like, I'm sure by the. The next morning, my beard had already grown back. I'm, you know, it grows so fast. But it was just such a. Like, such a generous move to put me at ease and to like, and to really get me feeling comfortable. And that is, I feel like an essential part of what you're great at is really getting really connecting with everybody and helping everybody connect with each other.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Making. I want to be like a human safety net. I want people to feel like they could go crazy. They could go over the line, they could be wrong, they could do too much, and it's fine.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, we'll do another take, you know, if it has to change. And a lot of time giving people permission to be whatever they're going to be. And, Jason, you're a great example of it. In the Dictator, you discovered new things all the time. You were always finding new material, new ways to approach it. You never did the same thing twice. And it was always like a revelation. And that's what I want. I want to be surprised by you, and I'll do anything I can to try to make that happen.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I think that idea of mixing improv into writing, some writers are very strict. They don't want you to change anything. It has to kind of be letter perfect. And I think you've definitely found in these later years this ability to kind of have something that's written that you feel good about, but then you can kind of continually craft. Even on army of One, the movie that we did with Nic Cage, you were constantly, like, retooling the script, getting it down to its core essence and just finding things, but again, allowing the day to be whatever the day was, and then not overdoing it. If you got it, you got it. And that's, I feel like, a real trust in the entire process. The actors, yourself, and, you know, and I think, like a lot of people, you were one of the very few sets I've ever rapped early on. And I was like. And I was like. And that's extreme. It wasn't because you were like, yeah, we got it. Like, you and Clint Eastwood are the two.

[Larry Charles]

Somehow we never ramped early on the dick date.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right. That's. Right.

[Larry Charles]

Now that. That's interesting.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There were other forces at work at the Dictator.

[Larry Charles]

Indeed. Indeed.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm a big admirer of Clint Eastwood, of all people. And not that he's big on comedy, but he's somebody, too, who trusts his instincts. And when he's got it, he's got it. He doesn't belabor the point. On the Dictator, it was a little different because Sasha never felt we got it, and so we were going. And then we might come back the next day and do it again, or we would try completely different version of it sometimes. And so it was a little bit more of a challenge on the Dictator, but on army of One.

[Larry Charles]

Yeah, I've never seen anything that loose scaled up that big, you know, like the. The looseness with which I feel like your sets, or like the traditional kind of, okay, let's improvise. Let's find moments. I'd never seen it on a scale that big as the Dictator, with hundreds of extras and stunt elements and all this stuff.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, it was a little crazy, and it was a little stressful at times, too.

[Larry Charles]

I'm aware.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But you were always. You know, the thing I would say to you is you were always there. You were so present, and you always had something new to play with, and you never gave up, and. And at times it was challenging, and you were always amazing, and your performance really was fantastic in that movie. Thank you, Larry. I was so blown away. And then, of course, I lost control of the editing, and some of that got lost, sadly, but. Sadly for me as well. But really, that was a tremendous one of a kind performance.

[Larry Charles]

Thank you, Larry. That's very sweet. Of you to say. I will say it was truly one of the most incredible experiences of my life on a process level.

[Paul Scheer]

And Jason, you are still in the dictator, right? You are still in.

[Larry Charles]

I am still in the movie. Yes, I am still in the.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You're in the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true.

[Larry Charles]

I will say, like, anytime I work in New York, Larry, anytime I'm on a set in New York, somebody on that set worked on the dictator and wants to pull me aside and talk about it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right, Right. That is the way. That's why the chapter is so large in the book also.

[Larry Charles]

Oh, yeah, it was a, it was a wild ride. And I loved reading that part of the book and seeing like, you know, legendary A.D. joe Reedy's name, all these kind, all these wonderful people who came through that.

[Paul Scheer]

Hi there, it's Andy Richter, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, the three Questions with Andy Richter. Each week I invite friends, comedians, actors, and musicians to discuss these three where do you come from, where are you going, and what have you learned? New episodes are out every Tuesday with guests like Julie Bowe and Ted Danson, Tig Notaro, Will Arnett, Phoebe Bridgers, and more. You can also tune in for my weekly Andy Richter call in show episodes, where me and a special guest invite callers to weigh in on topics like dating, disasters, bad teachers, and lots more. Listen to the three Questions with Andy Richter. Wherever you get your podcasts, every speaker can play the hits, but not every speaker can take the hits after hits, after hits, after Splash. The new JBL Charge 6.

[Larry Charles]

Waterproof, drop proof, dust proof, lifeproof.

[Paul Scheer]

Wherever you listen, JBL Charge 6 made to be heard. This is your moment, your time to shine your comeback. You're ready for the next step in your career and you want an education, employer's respect. So you're not just going back to to school. You're coming back with Purdue Global. Backed by Purdue University, one of the nation's most respected public universities, Purdue Global is built for people who bring their life experience into the online classroom. Purdue Global, Purdue's online university for working adults. Start your comeback today at purdueglobal. Edu. Well, you know, Larry, you're talking about, like, losing control or getting out of the edit on the dictator. You've done something that I was blown away by. On the movie that we did, army of One, you were allowed to release your cut on YouTube. So it's the cut that you actually wanted to make. I thought that was one of the coolest things ever because There are these, you know, we obviously hear about it in the grand, like the superhero thing, like what's the cut, you know, the Snyder cut and stuff like that. But to see the movie that you wanted to make, what was the impetus to continue to kind of push that forward? Because obviously it's a comedy. You don't often hear about the comedy alt version of it. But this came out maybe, I want to say like a year and a half ago. You were able to release your cut. Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, it took me that long. First of all, I had a battle with Bob Weinstein. Bob Weinstein, you know, I finished the movie and then the producers basically bailed on me. I mean, it's funny in both these cases, the Dictator and Army of One, I lost control of that final edit. I wish I could put out my version of the dictator also, but it's a little bit more complicated. But I went to the. I eventually I looked into litigation, I looked into all kinds of alternatives to sort of get control of the cut again, because I thought the cut that they did was such a betrayal of what the intention of the movie was. The movie was a very dark, strange, surreal movie. And they tried to make it into like a fairy tale. And I thought they really ruined the movie. They ruined the whole point of the movie, you know, which has a kind of a sad, poignant ending to it also. And they changed that even. And they couldn't do it because I didn't give them the footage. So it's very cobbled together in a very incoherent way as well. And it really bothered me because I didn't want it to be reflective of my work, you know, and I went to lawyers and nobody wanted to take on Bob Weinstein. My own lawyers, my own agents at the time did not want to mess with it because the Weinsteins was so. Still so powerful at that point. And I finally went to the DGA and there was a guy at the DGA named David Dreyfuss who said, this is ridiculous. I can't believe this happened. And he single handedly got me the agreement to be able to do my own cut and put that cut out as long as I didn't make money with it, which was not my, my goal anyway. And so that's what I was able to. I was able to fashion my own cut and which was the original cut that I had done and put that out on YouTube and it's available for people to see. And it's in stark contrast to the version which died by the way anyway. I mean, if the movie was. If the movie was gonna bomb, let my version of the movie bomb, you know. So now this version does exist for people who wanna see it, and they'll see it in stark contrast to what they may have seen on Amazon or wherever the other version is.

[Larry Charles]

That's incredible.

[Paul Scheer]

It's really. It's such a better movie. Your movie is such a better movie than the one that was released. And it is that thing as a director or as even like a. You know, you started directing in TV, too. Like you can get your work taken away from you. And I think a lot of people don't realize how quickly that can happen and how this mindset that you have and this ability to kind of move from town to town and not carry that weight, because I think it can get very. I think it could beat you down a little bit. Right. Because you don't know who to trust. Like, we're talking about other, you know, idiosyncratic people trusting you, but you have to also trust that you're not going to be over. Right. Because it's sort of like it feels like that's often what happens a lot of the times.

[Larry Charles]

Well, it's also. Yeah. How comfortable are you knowing or assuming that at some point in this process, this difficult person is going to turn on me, you know, And. And how do you handle that?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's a lot of betrayal, a lot of backstabbing, a lot of bad behavior, you know, and one of the reasons I did this with army of One was I felt like I had let Nick down, actually. Nick had really given everything to that movie. And he gave a really one of a kind performance. And I promised him that that version of the movie would be the movie, you know, and then it was taken away from me. And I wrote to him and I apologized and I just felt like I had let him down. And so I really wanted to put out the version that we had agreed on because that was the version that he really showed all the levels that he was trying to reach in that part. So a lot of it was just to kind of make things right with Nick. I felt like I owed Nick that, you know. Yeah, that was important to me.

[Larry Charles]

That's great.

[Paul Scheer]

And I feel like that's the reason why you work with these people, because they know that you'll. You'll look out for them on some level. And I think there was a. There's like a great quote in the book about, like, I think. Well, I'm going to paraphrase it, but you do things that seem dangerous and. Or reckless, but you don't actually. They. They appear that way, but you're. You are approaching it with a lot of care and thought. How do you approach that? You know, that idea of being, quote, unquote, reckless, but also having, like, a structure to it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, I want to push. To me, it's all about the best comedy is entering forbidden territory, trying to get to a place that really wouldn't normally be even thought of as funny. I mean, religion is a very serious topic to most people. But for me, I knew that therefore it was great fodder for comedy and the dictator in the same way. And even army of One, the story of Gary Faulkner, is not really a funny story. But that's where comedy, the richest comedy lies for me, is the places where you're not supposed to be laughing. If you could get comedy out of something that isn't funny, that's the place where the audience can finally liberate themselves and release all those emotions and laugh in a way they normally don't laugh at things.

[Larry Charles]

And that wave of that discomfort. That discomfort is so important and it's missing from so much of what's funny right now.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You can't now. It's very hard to do, actually. But it is a release for the audience. And that's when you achieve those gales of laughter. And that. I'm addicted to that. I want. I want the audience to lose control, like in a horror movie. Instead of screaming, I want people to be laughing on that same level.

[Larry Charles]

Well, it's that thing too, where we have lost. We used to all share in the collective experience of being scared together in the movie theater. Screaming together at the movie theater, being having a collective experience. And the same was true for laughing together. Not just, I think that's funny, but the waves of laughter that take over an audience, that's missing. We don't do that anymore. We don't put people in a room. I remember seeing Borat in a theater and thinking, this theater is going to crumble to the ground. So cacophonous and so physically committed to laughter are these people that it is like, shaking the room, basically, you know, and that we don't do anymore.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was just gonna say the audience is now broken down and fragmented. It's really not a mass audience anymore. And the moviegoing experience really doesn't exist for comedies like it once did. It reminds me of that great. The final scene of Sullivan's Travels where, you know, all the convicts and all the people are all together. From all these different walks of life. And they're laughing hysterically at the movie. And it's like, that is the power of laughter. And we've kind of lost that power a little bit. I agree.

[Paul Scheer]

You also forget that when you're in an audience, the laughter kind of will check you. Like, if you look around. I felt like when we first started performing in la, there was a little bit of a vibe, especially when we were doing improv, where people were looking to the left and their right being, is this funny? Is it okay to laugh at this? Whereas New York, I feel like we could push any boundary, any limit, and it was getting a laugh. And I think so many people consume things at home now or in the privacy of their. Just on their phone and in their head, that you can manipulate a joke and you cease to see why it's funny. But if you're in a crowd of people and you're hearing it, you're much, you know, you're much more willing to be like, okay, I'm the odd person out or I'm not gonna be judging this. Cause it clearly is working. But when you're only one person receiving comedy, you can manipulate it in any which way or take a quote out of context. It really is. It's a bummer because you see things that are clearly sarcastic or, you know, just being silly, and people just miss the whole point of it. And that's a bummer right now, too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, you want that process to be unconscious. You want people to not be thinking about it. Now we watch things, we go, okay, that's a joke. That's supposed to be funny. And you're going through a thought process, a conscious thought process, instead of like on Borat, where you don't know what's going to happen. It's completely unpredictable. And now you're laughing out of a reflex, not because of something you thought about, but something you just are reacting to naturally. And that. That sort of natural reaction, that reflex reaction which happens with horror movies too, when they work, is kind of being lost and sort of filtered down and flattened by the algorithm, by the fragmented audience, by the various pressures, the corporate pressures also, that are on most comedy today.

[Larry Charles]

It seems there's also something about comedy really thrives in your ability to surprise the audience. For them to feel as though they are being surprised or they are discovering the moment, an avenue forward that they didn't see happening, but you've just shown it to them, right? You're saying, look at this. You know, you thought it was going to Be this. Maybe it's this or whatever. And that entire thought process now is. Is suspect to people. Like, they don't want to be surprised. You know, it feels as though to surprise people now is for them to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't do that. Let's not get crazy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Exactly. Right. Let's stick with the plan here. And that's why the purity of comedy today is in what you guys do is in improv, is in standup. Those are the places where that purity, that connection with the audience, that unpredictability you're talking about still exists. And you could have that connection still and have it be an eruption because of that, and because the audience does want to be surprised, but they're afraid of it, and they've been taught not to really. They've been conditioned not to really be seeking it anymore, you know, so it's great that you guys are still doing that, because that's the place on the stage with a live audience where you could still achieve that sort of level.

[Paul Scheer]

There's two things that you've done recently that really blew my mind, and one, I think, speaks to this, which is, like, the dangerous world of comedy that you did for Netflix. There's a documentary about, you know, people, you know, doing comedy in, like, Liberia and Somalia, and you forget that there is comedy in these other places. Right. Like, we don't think of it like that. I think that there's. At least when you are looking at it, I don't know, I think we can be very, you know, we can get very pigeonholed in thinking about it. And so that really was wonderful to see. Like, oh, yeah, how do you do it in these countries where free speech is at stake? Or how do you be funny in these worlds? And. And I. I just. If you have not watched that, this is to people who are listening. Check that out. It's just a really beautiful way of kind of blowing out what comedy is to so many groups of people. We have so much longitude and latitude here to do whatever we want. But there's other people who have to work in smaller parameters and are still doing amazing work and really interesting work. I also just want to talk to you about the musical that you did. That musical Dicks that you did was one of, like, it was one of those moments where I don't know if I even knew that you directed it or whatever it was, but I, like, sat up off the couch in the first moments, like, holy shit. Like. And I feel like that. Like, that energy is kind of electric and it's very different for you, right? Like, this is like a bold, like, queer comedy, and it's like. And it's a musical. Like, how do you get involved in that? Is that something you've always wanted to do? I heard Tom Cruise wants to do a musical. I didn't know if Larry Charles had had that on his list.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, again, first of all, I was very lucky. Josh and Aaron, the stars of the movie, who I insisted be the stars of the movie, not. I didn't want Matt Damon and Ben Affleck to play those two parts. They actually came to me and asked me if I'd be interested, and they gave me the script, and they showed me their UCB sketch that it was based on.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, that was a UCB show, right?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was a UCB show. Yeah. And I read the script, and I remember, I remembered so well. I read the first two pages and I was laughing so hard at the script. And I went to my wife and I said, this is like, the funniest script I've read since, you know, Borat or whatever. And I kept reading, and it kept getting funnier and funnier and funnier. And then the music was amazing.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I was like, I was so excited that I had to make that movie. And when I feel that way, I really trust that feeling. And I also knew that we get very little money for it. I liked the idea, the challenge of doing this on a low budget and shot it kind of like, let's do a show together kind of feeling, proscenium style, very in your face. And I thought it was really, really fun. And I thought the language transcended its queerness, its gayness. It was just funny, you know?

[Larry Charles]

Oh, yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

It's an electric movie that again, I feel like when it came out or theaters were just coming back, but it's like, that's a movie that I wish I saw surrounded by people, right?

[Larry Charles]

Yes. Because that is a big. That's a, like, belly laugh, very funny, constantly surprising movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. Yes. Well, we did a number of previews with audiences and like, a Toronto and places like that where it kills, right?

[Larry Charles]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And it was like. It was great to watch an audience again. We've been talking about how it's also fragmented, but their audiences came together in these various screenings and really were, like, rocking. They were, like, rocking audiences. And I want that rock concert, live event sort of feeling to it. And it really had that. And the music was amazing. I mean, that was one of the most special things about it, too. And it was fun to do choreography and shoot that kind of stuff as well.

[Paul Scheer]

Now you are working with, like we said in the beginning, so many amazing people. Like, in Dixie, you have, like, Megan the Stallion. You have, you know, you have stories about Mel Brooks and Larry David and Sacha Baron Cohen. These are stories that I would imagine when I'm reading this book, I'm like, are you nervous to be like, can I tell these stories? Because, I mean, I'm sure that there are some things you maybe had to take out, but when you put it in a book, do you feel nervous? Like, oh, I don't want to say that about this person, or I, you know, maybe that's crossing a line.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, I felt like I. As long as I was honest about myself, I thought I could be honest about others, and I certainly, you know, bust myself as much as I bust anybody else, you know, And I think so. You know, you're getting truth, you know, and it's like you can hide the truth only so long. It seemed to me this is the truth of my life, you know, for better or for worse. And that includes my own failings, which are legion. I've had tremendous failure, tremendous humiliating failure, as well as success. And I felt, you know, that was what justified me talking about these things. When I was hurting somebody that seemed to not deserve to be hurt in some way, I would take that out. I wasn't interested in hurting people, but I was interested in telling people the truth of my life and my saga, essentially.

[Paul Scheer]

And I imagine, too, there's probably this thing where when people hear about you, they were like, oh, well, tell us about Seinfeld. What about the masturbation episode? What? You know, I'm sure there's these things that you have talked about, and there's. And there are no good stories to it, right? Like, it's like, well, what was it like to shoot that? It's like, well, I don't know if we had any notes on the contest, right? It's like, there's no but, you know, but, like. But come with me, because I actually, actually have like, 20 other more interesting stories. I don't know if this is in the book or if I remember reading this, but when you were working on Arsenio hall, which I love, and you were a joke writer for Arsenio hall, you started out as a standup. You couldn't get any jokes on the air, right? And you had this, like, come to Jesus moment. It was. I remember you. Maybe you just told me this, but like Jack Nicholson, you're like out in front of the Arsenio hall stages. Like, can you talk about that for a second? Like, yeah, just like being in this moment of just like, Like, I'm fucked. Like, I have a kid and I don't know what to do.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, yeah, that isn't the book, by the way.

[Paul Scheer]

That's why then I remembered it the right way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right, right. No, I, I, you know, I initially had gone to Arsenio and I said, you know, I want to write these Richard Pryor type monologues. And he was really into it. And I did that at first. And he was getting so much shit for just being a black guy on tv. He was getting such hate mail pre Internet. He would actually literally get, like, crayon hate mail, threatening him and sexually wanting to destroy him. And we had metal screeners up in the, in the, in the audience so that people would come through and we had to take their weapons off of them. It was a very weird, crazy. He was under a lot of pressure that people don't really know about, so he couldn't do this controversial material. It was too much for him. It was too much to take on. And I could not write those kind of generic jokes that he needed. I just couldn't do it. So I went for six months without getting a joke on the air. And I knew at the end of that my contract would be over and I was going to be fired. And I came to that point where it was almost over, the contract was almost over. And I went outside and I'm standing in front of the trailer where the writers worked. This dank trailer on the Paramount. People think Paramount. They think of the glamour. But we worked in a dank trailer. It was disgusting. You know, there's little rooms in a dank trailer. And I knew that Jack Nicholson was on the lot because he was doing the Two Jakes at the time, the sequel to Chinatown. And I'd seen his parking space, and I'd seen his Mercedes in the parking space. And I'm standing outside the trailer and I'm just looking at the sky, literally going, what am I gonna do? Like, my career is over. Where do I go from here? You know, I have no idea what I was gonna do. And as you said, I had a baby and I felt like, wow, man, I am fucked. This is it. It's over. I had a ride, and now the ride is over. And suddenly, out of the corner of my eye, I saw slowly moving towards me, this Mercedes. And I saw inside a guy wearing the Laker hat and the sunglasses, and it was Jack Nicholson. And he's slowly moving past me. And as he moves past me and he's in the car, he's got everything. He's really beat. He's beat the system, you know, he looks at me and I look at him, and we both just burst out laughing. Apropos of nothing, we just both burst out laughing. And he just says, yeah, it's funny, and just keeps going.

[Larry Charles]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I interpreted that as like, It's a game, man. It's a game. I played the game. I did. Okay, Just play the game. Don't take it so seriously. It's going to be all right, you know? And I really. He gave me kind of hope in a weird way in that little moment, you know? And then I got fired. And the next thing that happened was Larry David called me and asked me if I wanted to come to work on Seinfeld.

[Larry Charles]

Wow. Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

Is there a piece of your body of work, not your career, but your body of work that you like a lot, that you feel like people don't appreciate? Because obviously you. There's so many things I'm sure that people are gonna run up and talk to you about, but you're like, oh, no one ever talks to me about this. I think this is, like, one of my favorite things, whether it's like, you know, you were working on sketches on Friday all the way through, you know, through now. I mean, like, anything that stands out that people don't talk to you about enough.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, it's an interesting point, because I often think, and I think I talk about it in the book even, that we're defined by our body of work, by our public body of work. But in a lot of ways, I think you know me better and you know a lot of people better by the stuff that doesn't get produced or that fails, that nobody sees. And I would even look at army of One, for instance, is a perfect example of that. I mean, I really was proud. I was excited about making it. I was excited about working with all of you. I loved the movie. I thought, wow, we really have done something very, very unique. And it got kind of crushed, and it crushed me at the same time. And so I think that's a perfect example of something that most people don't even know exists. And I have a lot of work like that that has either been made that people haven't seen or that hasn't been made. I've made a lot of pilots, like the pilot that Jason's talking about or a number of Other pilots that were really cool. Interesting. Weird pilots with. Interesting.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, you made the Kanye west pilot, too, at that point. I mean.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's right. His whole life would be different today if that had been picked up, if you think about it.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. I mean, Seven Seasons would be a whole different story.

[Larry Charles]

Can you imagine?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's right. He would be a totally different trip now. But. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of my work, a lot of it is unseen for one reason or another. And that work that is unseen, I think, defines me as much as the work that is out there that people know about. And I try to talk about as much of it as I can in the book.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, the book is really great in the sense that if you are a fan of comedy, you have touched something like. And. And it's. And it's not like, this is not a book that. Oh, yeah, Larry worked on, you know, Seinfeld, and this is. Now your Seinfeld is a. Is a part of the book. It's so much bigger on both sides of it and continues to grow. And it's sort of not even a career book because, like you said, your career is still going. You're very active, you're doing a bunch of stuff. And this is like a chance to sit down with just a great comedy mind. And in a sense of. This is what everybody wants to hear. I think it's the stories. It's the.

[Larry Charles]

Well, it's like, it's no bullshit, too. Like, if you're listening to this, you're getting a sense of it.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Larry Charles]

You're one of my favorite people to run into, to talk to. You are a. Not only are you at all these things or all these places are inside of all of these iconic, or as we're talking about maybe not iconic things, things that have lost their way or been taken away from you, there's something really incredible about all the stuff you've done. And you're just a great storyteller. You're a great. You're perfect at telling your story in a way that is warts and all. It is not like, look at me putting yourself up on a pedestal or something. It is. It's a blast to read these chapters. It's a blast to read this book.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Thank you. You. Thank you.

[Paul Scheer]

You know, you are also narrating your book as an audiobook. So for people here, a lot of our audience are going to listen to it, and it's you telling these stories, which makes it a million times better. And because it's. It's I, I think it's, you know, there's something really fun about being able to say your word. I mean, writing your words is one thing, but then also being able to perform them, you know, you, you started off as a standup too. Was it fun to go back to and perform your book? Because you're not often, you know, you're not often on camera like that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I loved it, actually. I had a really great time making the audiobook. We did it in this really small studio and it was just. I did enjoy performing because I wrote it the way I talk. And so reading it was a really natural, organic kind of process for me and I really had a good time doing that. Yeah. And I do see it as one big monologue in a way.

[Paul Scheer]

I love it. Well, we're gonna let you go. I just wanna ask one quick question. Cause you did say you mentioned Sullivan's Travels, which was one of my favorite movies. Comedy movies. Anything that you would recommend that just tickles your fancy that you're like, oh, this is something you should check out. It doesn't have to be new, could be old, like just something that you wanna turn us onto. Cause we always talk about things that we're recommending to each other, but like, what have you been into? It could be music, it could be movie, it could be anything. Just. Yeah, what are you into?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, I recently watched a movie which most people don't know exists and it's about LA and it's called the Loved One. Have you ever heard of this movie?

[Larry Charles]

No.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The Loved One. It's directed by Tony Richardson who is a really great director of the 60s. It stars Robert Morse and an all star cast of cameos. Oh wow. Jonathan Winters and all kinds of really interesting people. And it's about the funeral industry in Los Angeles. And it's basically a comedy about the funeral industry in Los Angeles. It's in black and white, but it's a really super cool, funny, one of a kind movie. I happened to watch it recently and I thought, wow, this is an undiscovered gem.

[Paul Scheer]

I love this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So anybody who's interested in comedy and looking for something esoteric, that's something I would definitely recommend. It's on, you know, streaming somewhere.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, it's on Amazon Prime. You can get it on a Blu ray too. It's a nice Blu ray. Larry, your book Comedy Samurai is out right now. So you can get the audiobook, you can get the regular book. Are you gonna be doing any signings or getting anywhere out like that on the road or are you just staying in?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I have a book soup event at the Wilshire Ebell on next week, next sometime, I'm not sure when. And I'm going to New York and I'll be in a couple of shows and I'm doing the podcast and yeah, I'm trying to make the rounds.

[Paul Scheer]

You know, I love it. Well, everyone should check out this book. I was so excited to have you on here. And yeah, like I said, one of my best experiences, I think Jason said too, is like working with you is truly.

[Larry Charles]

Oh, I mean, truly, truly. It has been what a pleasure, you know, and that the Dictator was a real capital M movie to be on and you were an essential part of making that an insane and incredible experience.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Well, thank you guys both. And again, my apologies for the way things turned out, but I loved working with both of you and I hope I get a chance to do it again.

[Larry Charles]

Oh, absolutely.

[Paul Scheer]

Anytime. I mean, we'll show up. And I will tell you this much, when your book came, I was reading it, my dad was visiting, took it, read it, and took it home with him. So I am now buying another copy of your book so it can live on my bookcase. All right, thank you, Larry.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All right, thanks, guys. Great to see you.

[Paul Scheer]

Thank you, Jason, for just chatting with me. But now it is finally time to announce our next movie. We're going to be going from Mr. Rad to getting rad. That's right. Next week we are shredding the gnar as we watch Surf 2 starring Eddie Deason and Eric Stoltz. I love this movie. We did this on tour. It is one of my favorites. I recommend you watching it. Here's a short breakdown of the plot. A disgruntled nerd who was bullied in high school creates Buzz Cola, a soft drink that turns surfers into zombies. Yes, it only has a 53% score on rotten Tomatoes. And Woody Anders says it's a one star film because it's a horribly stupid and annoyingly would be send up of both 1960 beach party pictures and cheesy 70s drive in horror. But guess what? It works. Take a listen to the trailer. The surf wars continue when a mad genius pollutes innocent surfer youth and the free beaches of America.

[Larry Charles]

Do you know how many brain surface.

[Paul Scheer]

Nuclear fish or Nobel laureates have been surfered? I'll tell you, none. It's a sprawling surf saga of rebellion, romance, adventure beneath boiling seas, struggle against uncontrolled substances, and a race to the death by freedom fighters protecting your right to surf and the American Way. It's twice the fun of Surf 1, Surf 2. You can stream Surface for free on YouTube prime or Roku with a subscription membership or check it out over at the Vinegar Syndrome. Oh I love the Vinegar Syndrome. They're re releasing Dirty Work, a new dirtier cut. In addition, I also encourage you to check out Hoopla Canopy and Libby, which are digital media services offered by your local public library that allow you to consume movies, tv, music, audiobooks, ebooks and comics for free. That is it for Last Looks. If you listen to us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please take a moment, rate us, review us. It helps and make sure that you are following us and have automatic downloads turned on. That really helps the show have automatic downloads turned on and you can always visit us on social media at hdtgm. A big thank you to our producer Scott Soni, Molly Reynolds and our movie Picking producer Avril Halley, our Associate producer Jess Cisneros and our engineer Casey Holford. We will see you next week for SIR2. Hi there, it's Andy Richter and I'm here to tell you about my podcast the three Questions with Andy Richter. Each week I invite friends, comedians, actors and musicians to discuss these three questions. Where do you come from, where are you going and what have you learned? New episodes are out every Tuesday with guests like Julie Bowe and Ted Danson, Tig Notaro, Will Arnett, Phoebe Bridgers and more. You can also tune in for my weekly Andy Richter Call in show episodes where me and a special guest invite callers to weigh in on topics like dating, disasters, bad teachers and lots more. Listen to the three Questions with Andy Richter. Wherever you get your podcasts, get ready.

[Larry Charles]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

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[Paul Scheer]

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