How Did This Get Made? — Return to Oz

Hosts: Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, Jason Mantzoukas
Episode Date: January 30, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives into Return to Oz (1985), a dark and unsettling sequel to The Wizard of Oz produced by Disney. Paul, June, and Jason dissect the film’s bizarre tone, narrative choices, and unsettling imagery, exploring why it traumatized a generation of young viewers and remains one of the most debated children’s movies ever made. The conversation spans analysis, personal reactions, memorable moments, and a critical look at the film's place in pop culture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Trauma of "Return to Oz"

• Initial Reactions

  • Jason: "Traumatized." (02:44)
  • Paul: "Yes, truly traumatized." (02:45)
  • The film is collectively agreed to be more horror than children’s fantasy, setting it apart from the joyful 1939 original.

• Comparing to The Wizard of Oz:

  • June reflects on the importance of the original:
    “The Wizard of Oz is very important to me, and it’s such a perfect movie that this Return to Oz… is really distressing to me.” (05:10)
  • Jason observes the tonal whiplash: “This to me felt like Wizard of Oz meets The Dark Crystal.” (05:43)

Faithful Adaptation or Unforgivable Detour?

• Paul provides background on Disney’s confusion in the 1980s and its string of “darker” fantasy films (The Black Hole, Condorman, Escape from Witch Mountain).
• June on source material:
  “This is a faithful adaptation … but it’s so grim … an example of why it is important sometimes to not at all be faithful to the original.” (14:40)
• Jason: Suggests a hypothetical adaptation route, wishing they’d done a faithful dark Wizard of Oz first, then adapted this sequel (17:08).

The Bleak, Psychologically Disturbing Tone

• The film’s opening (Dorothy is almost given electroshock therapy):
  “She’s also institutionalized and on the verge of getting 1930s electroshock treatment. That … was the part of the movie…” (07:05 - Jason)
• Paul points out the narrative disconnect: “This is a sequel to a movie we’ve not seen.” (10:43)
• June: “This isn’t a sequel to The Wizard of Oz as far as I’m concerned. This is sort of another telling of the book.” (08:15)

Disturbing Imagery & Characters

• Memorable scenes:
  • Dorothy brushing a jack-o-lantern’s nonexistent hair: “This is the scariest thing I’ve ever seen in my life.” (11:49 - Paul)
  • Dr. Worley giving the electroshock device a face and naming its parts as facial features:
    Paul (12:10): “Oh, this electrical marvel will make it possible for you to sleep again.” Jason (12:49): "Here's this machine that's gonna rob you of who you are... such insidious malice to it."
• The “Hallway of Heads” with Princess Mombi cited as a highlight:
  "Scary, believable... really incredible." (16:09 - June)
• Pumpkin Jack calling Dorothy “Mom,” and Dorothy going along with it:
  “Really, really distressing. And then even worse, she started responding to it.” (18:41 - June)

The Bizarre Logic, Subpar Companions, and Mechanical Themes

• June laments: “Not a single one of them has a human face... which felt very pointed.” (29:14)
• Jason calls Dorothy’s new companions “the B team… like Expendables 7.” (26:59)
• Discussion on mechanical characters (TikTok the robot):
  “A potbelly robot is an odd choice. It doesn’t seem functional to give your robot girth.” (03:44 - Paul)
• They joke about Jason’s “TikTok man” character from John Wick 3 possibly being related.

Existential Overtones & Bleak World-Building

• Everyone, including Dorothy and her companions, is experiencing an existential crisis (30:40).
• June: “All in, like, deep psychic distress. And it’s very uncomfortable to watch.” (30:49)

The Weakness of the "Sequel" Device

• They argue the film would be better enjoyed if it weren’t attached to The Wizard of Oz at all: "It has more in common with Pan’s Labyrinth than it does the Wizard of Oz." (20:59 - Jason) "Would you enjoy a movie in which a little girl descends into a… Wonderland type of story that’s dark and scary?” (37:07 - Jason)

The Chicken as an Agent of Chaos

• The chicken Bellina, who is surprisingly crucial, ultimately kills the Gnome King by laying an egg in his mouth—eggs being his fatal weakness.
  • “Does she know that's poison?...Is that how you shit an egg?” (46:51 - June)
  • Jason’s childhood severe egg allergy draws personal parallels. (47:15)

Thematic and Visual Contrasts

• The hosts bemoan the lack of color, beauty, and clarity in Dorothy’s journey;
• June on Dorothy’s wardrobe: “Her bows were too big. That dress, I can’t even track… was so sort of shapeless and strange.” (39:25–40:28)

The Wheelers

• All are unsettled by the design and movement of the Wheelers:
  • “I thought the design and the execution of those Wheelers was cool as hell.” (57:02 - Jason)
  • “These guys looked like... body horror... this felt like David Cronenberg’s Return to Oz.” (57:54 - Jason)
• June: “They were scarier because they were human, and they were chaotic in a way that the monkeys seemed ruled by something.” (57:21)

The Movie’s Target Audience & Enduring Legacy

• 80% of over 5,000 Amazon reviews are five stars, shocking the hosts (61:26).
• They acknowledge that many children now-adults maintain a deep nostalgic connection, possibly BECAUSE the film disturbed them.
  • “Sometimes when you get traumatized by a movie very young, it can seep in… like a rite of passage.” (60:05 - Paul)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• June, on adaptation vs. faithfulness (14:40):
  “This is an example of why it is important sometimes to not at all be faithful to the original source material.”
• Paul, on Dorothy’s drab home life (08:15):
  “Why would she ever want to go back? ... Your parents are putting you in an institution...”
• Jason, summing up Dorothy (19:49):
  “She feels much older… She looks like an actual 10 year old from that era… She’s been hungry before. She’s gone to bed hungry many, many nights.”
• Jason, existential crisis summation (30:40):
  “Everybody in the movie, with the exception, actually, no, including Dorothy, are having an existential crisis.”
• June, on the Wheelers (57:21):
  “They were scarier because they were human, and they were chaotic in a way that the monkeys seemed ruled by something… completely out of control.”
• Paul, on recommending the film (64:44):
  “Would you recommend it? I kind of … say yes. Because it’s so odd. It’s so weird. It’s worth a watch.”

Segment Timestamps

• [02:44] – Traumatizing impact of Return to Oz
• [05:10-08:15] – Comparing to The Wizard of Oz; distress over adaptation choices
• [07:05] – Disturbing opening: Dorothy is institutionalized
• [11:47] – The Jack Pumpkin Head horror scene
• [14:40] – Discussion on adaptation faithfulness
• [16:09] – Hallway of Heads scene
• [17:08-18:41] – Dorothy’s companions and emotional detachment
• [26:59-29:14] – Opinions on the new Oz companions as “the B team”
• [46:27] – Defeating the Gnome King with a chicken egg
• [57:02-58:04] – Wheelers as unnerving, body horror villains
• [61:26] – Amazon reviews: 80% five stars
• [64:44] – Would you recommend? Roundtable wrap-up

Final Thoughts & Recommendations

• Paul: Odd and worth a watch for sheer weirdness, but not for those seeking narrative clarity or continuity with the original. (64:44)
• Jason: Enjoyable when decoupled from The Wizard of Oz, with impressive practical effects, but confusing as a sequel.
• June: No overlap between fans of the original film and this; likely beloved by those attached to the Oz books or who saw it repeatedly as children (66:17).
• They agree its dark, bizarre, and (despite its flaws) visually interesting—an enduring curiosity that horrified a generation.

For Listeners

If you’re a Wizard of Oz purist, proceed with caution. If you love offbeat ‘80s fantasy, inventive puppetry, or want to show your kids a “good, scary movie”—or just want to relive that childhood trauma—you might find Return to Oz compelling viewing. Just don’t expect any closure or joy.

Notable Callback:
Jason, on fans: “I was gonna say I’m not curious to hear from fans, and I don’t want to hear from fans, so… you can cut that straight out of the podcast.” (67:36)

How Did This Get Made? is available Fridays wherever you listen to podcasts.