The Christmas Tree (1991)

Summary

How Did This Get Made? - The Christmas Tree (1991)

Episode Date: November 28, 2025
Hosts: Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, Jason Mantzoukas
Topic: Dissecting the notoriously bizarre and low-budget animated holiday film The Christmas Tree (1991).

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the hosts undertake a hilarious and bewildered breakdown of the 1991 animated "film" The Christmas Tree—an obscure, low-budget Christmas special infamous for its strange animation, erratic pacing, and oddly bleak storylines. Clocking in at an allegedly brisk 45 minutes (which the hosts agree feels much longer), the trio tries to make sense of the movie's nonsensical plot, odd creative choices, and unintentionally disturbing moments—all while sharing personal anecdotes, especially about Paul’s wild and “Little House on the Prairie”-esque childhood.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Impressions and Physical Endurance

• Recommendation Debate: Paul suggests listeners watch the film (“your eyes need to see it, and your ears need to hear it”—[03:04]), while June and Jason argue it feels interminable, with June stating, “I felt those minutes” ([03:24]).
• Relativity of Runtime: Despite its short length, the film’s pacing makes it drag. Jason: “Every time I had only gotten like three more minutes in and it felt eternal” ([03:37]).

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2. Plot Basics and Storytelling Problems

• IMDB Logline vs. Movie Reality: Paul reads the bland IMDb description, which leads into a discussion of how it buries the weirdest elements, like Mrs. Hopewell, the sentient tree ([05:13]).
• Opening Narration: The film’s narrator speed-reads through massive context, cramming exposition to cover plot holes (“like the Micro Machines guy”—Paul, [06:16]).

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3. Production Quality & Animation Weirdness

• Cheap Aesthetic & Dated Animation: The animation looks decades older; Jason: “This is 1970s or 80s level animation and voice work... it looks like something you’d watch as a child simply because it was on TV” ([07:34]).
• Reuse and Errors: Obvious animation shortcuts, continuity errors (e.g., missing child appears among the others—[09:44]) and evolving art style (e.g., Santa looks like “clip art” from another movie, [29:47]).

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4. Dissecting Character Motivations and Plot Nonsense

• Mrs. Mavilda as Villain: The trio discusses her gambling addiction—June: “She doesn’t seem to be doing well at it…” Jason: “No wonder she’s still running the orphanage after all these years” ([11:48]).
• Symbolism and Social Commentary?: June half-seriously proposes the movie’s about addiction; Paul and Jason struggle to grant the movie that much depth ([13:12]).
• The Tree as a Friend: The children treat Mrs. Hopewell, the tree, as their only friend; hosts question why the film chooses isolation instead of community or found family ([08:23]).

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5. Inexplicable Narrative Choices

• Pacing Issues: The film spends significant time on table-setting and narration, then abruptly rushes through the finale ([49:00], [49:53]).
• Santa’s Weird Vibe: Santa is weirdly sexualized by the animation style, and his deus ex machina role is both unearned and creepy. June: “...my mind went, what the fuck happened?” ([30:23]).

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6. Wild Personal Tangents: Paul’s Childhood

• Dog Sleds & Dead Quail: A simple question about sleds leads to Paul revealing he did “dry land mushing” with pointers, raised quail, and participated in quasi-black-market bird sales. The others are stunned (“We’ve done this show for 15 years and we’re just finding out that you had Iditarod-style dog sled in Long Island, New York”—Jason, [33:18]).
• Hosts’ Shock & Humorous Prodding: June and Jason interrogate Paul about his rural chores, dog sleds, and bizarre family business deals ([33:31]–[44:02]).
• Memorable Exchange:
  • June: “What did I marry into? Is there a quail fortune I don’t know?” ([41:09])
  • Paul: “I remember distinctly saying, ‘we’ll leave the garage open. You can come and get the quail’” ([41:45])
  • Jason: “You were part of something that I don’t think you understand.” ([40:13])

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7. Back to the Film: Host Observations and Riffs

• Property Law & Orphan Logic: They analyze the implausible setup—questioning whether the tree is on the orphanage’s property, why the mayor is omnipotent, and how orphans/children interact with adults ([17:17]–[17:46], [22:26]).
• Ludicrous Details: The mayor brings bags of cash, Mrs. Mavilda’s cartoonish villainy, community inaction when kids are in danger, and missing concern over actual missing children ([29:01], [54:13]).
• Orphans’ Passivity: The kids are the least resourceful orphans in movie history (“they are not doing a goddamn thing”—Jason, [60:08]).

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8. What IS the Movie’s Message?

• No Clear Moral: The hosts struggle to find the intended Christmas lesson:
  • Jason: “It’s not about believing. It’s not about the Christmas spirit. It’s not about love for one another instead of craving gifts and so forth...” ([61:10])
  • June: “The fun thing about orphan movies... there is something so appealing about seeing kids being together. Even Oliver! ...there’s something so compelling watching these stories as a kid.” ([62:08])

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9. Second Opinions and Movie Facts

• Sparse Real Reviews: Paul reports only two Amazon reviews exist for this “not a real movie” ([70:00]).
• Children’s Voices: All the orphans are voiced by the children of the creators (“...most of the cast is made up mainly of friends and family of the animation crew members”—Paul, [67:38]).
• Strange Five-Star Reviews: One reviewer describes the movie as “enchanting” with “somber eyes,” which baffles the hosts ([67:10]).

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10. Holiday Movie Traditions Chat

• Preferred Holiday Movies: The hosts discuss what they watch with their families—Home Alone, Elf, Christmas Vacation, Eight Bit Christmas, and more, with Paul’s kids rejecting Muppet Christmas Carol ([71:14]–[74:10]).
• Changing Tastes: Paul admits he’s soured on A Christmas Story, June (and her family) embraces more modern offerings ([74:10]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Runtime:
  • Jason: “This was interminably long.” ([03:32])
• On the Orphans’ Relationship to the Tree:
  • June: “They describe this tree as their only friend,... but they never turn to each other.” ([08:34])
• On Mrs. Mavilda’s Gambling:
  • Jason: “She’s a bad gambler.” ([11:40])
  • Paul: “I feel like she was losing to torture the children.” ([12:08])
• On Animation Quality:
  • Jason: “This is 1970s or 80s level animation and voice work. This looks like the kind of movie I would have watched as a child around Christmas simply because it was on TV.” ([07:34])
• On Santa:
  • Paul: “I think the way that he looks at everyone in this town is very sexual.” ([29:53])
  • June: “What's going on? What the fuck happened?” ([30:23])
• On the Lack of Clear Themes:
  • Jason: “It’s not about believing. It’s not about the Christmas spirit. It’s not about love for one another. ...I don't think there is [a moral].” ([61:10])
• On Paul’s Childhood:
  • Jason: “We’ve done this show for 15 years and we’re just finding out that you had Iditarod style dog sled in Long Island, New York.” ([33:18])
  • June: “What did I marry into? Is there a quail fortune I don’t know?” ([41:09])
  • Jason: “You were part of something that I don’t think you understand.” ([40:13])
• On the Orphans' Passivity:
  • Jason: “Orphans, do better... These orphans are just standing around. They are not doing a goddamn thing.” ([60:01])

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Timestamps For Key Segments

• [02:00] – Opening songs & setup
• [03:04] – Paul urges everyone to watch the film
• [05:13] – Reciting and debunking IMDb synopsis
• [07:34] – Critique of animation quality
• [11:32] – [13:22] – Mrs. Mavilda’s gambling and psychological motivations
• [29:47] – [31:01] – Santa’s weird animation style and role
• [33:31] – [44:02] – Paul’s childhood stories (dog sledding, quail businesses)
• [49:00] & [49:53] – Climax pacing and abrupt wrap-up
• [60:52] – Grappling with the movie’s (lack of) message
• [67:10] – [70:00] – Reading and dissecting scant “Second Opinions” / real reviews
• [71:14] – Hosts’ favorite holiday movies

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Overall Tone & Takeaway

The episode is a blend of genuine befuddlement, sharp comedic takedowns, and delightfully absurd tangents. The hosts are united in their amazement at how something so short could feel so punishingly long, and in their complete inability to determine what message, if any, the film delivers. The conversation is rich with exasperated, riff-filled banter and, as always, a warm camaraderie—which especially shines through in their reactions to Paul’s wild Long Island upbringing.

By the end, the consensus:

• This is not a “so bad it’s good” gem—it’s simply bizarre.
• The only reason to watch The Christmas Tree is to appreciate just how bad a Christmas special can be (and to love the classics that much more).
• “Orphans, do better.”

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For Listeners: Should I Watch The Christmas Tree (1991)?

• Paul (reluctantly): “Your eyes need to see it, and your ears need to hear it.”
• Jason: “I do not recommend this.”
• June: “I kind of feel the same… even my 9-year-old wanted to go to sleep.”

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For more How Did This Get Made?, visit HDGTM.com or your podcast app of choice.

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For official transcripts, merch, live show info, and holiday specials, see the show website or socials. If you have thoughts or want to add to the madness, the team encourages messages on Discord or their hotline (619-PAUL-ASK).

Transcript

[Paul Shear]

Why does St. Nick get all the credit when moms do all the work? Michelle Pfeiffer stars as Claire Closter in oh, what Fun, a heartwarming holiday comedy from acclaimed director Michael Showalter. When Claire's family accidentally leaves her at home after she's planned the perfect Christmas outing, she's had enough. So she embarks on an impromptu adventure that turns into the holiday freedom that she never knew she needed. Stream oh what fun on December 3rd on Prime Video and discover why sometimes the best traditions are are the ones you never planned. Alienware's biggest sale of the season lets you unleash peak performance at Black Friday savings. Save on select Alienware PCs like the groundbreaking Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop, taking performance to the next level with Intel Core Ultra processors. Plus, you can save on all the latest accessories and displays like the Alienware 27 4K QD OLED gaming monitor. Visit alienware.com deals before these limited time savings end. This message is brought to you by Sonos this holiday season, Sonos makes an amazing gift. Surprise someone who loves music. Upgrade a home theater for movie nights or keep it simple with a little to me from me moment. I have been on the Sonos train forever and guess what? I just put one of those bass amps in a smaller room and now every movie sounds a million times better. If you want studio quality sound at home, explore Sonos speakers, soundbars and [e-mail] and discover how easy it is to build your own whole home audio system. Finally, a Christmas movie unsuitable for the entire family. We saw the Christmas Tree so you know what that means.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now it's time for how to discover.

[Paul Shear]

We're gonna have a good time, celebrate some failure, not just be a hater. Cause you know you wonder how did this create.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Let's wallow the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the.

[Paul Shear]

Question how did this get made? Hello people of Earth, and welcome to how did this Get Made? Boy oh boy, we got a doozy for you today. We are Talking about the 1991 animated feature, if you can call it that, the Christmas Tree. Coming in at a tight 45 minutes. Not to be confused with the TV movie The Christmas Tree in 1986, which was Sally Field's directorial debut that very different films. Yeah, yeah. So there you go.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Should we watch all the Christmas trees?

[Paul Shear]

I would love to just really dig.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

On in the Christmas Tree.

[Paul Shear]

This movie. I would recommend people watching because it is free on YouTube and it's only 45 minutes. But I.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And that's interesting. So you would say that people should watch it.

[Paul Shear]

I think that you, your eyes need to see it. And if you say your eyes need to see it, your eyes need to see it and your ears need to hear it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That should be the motto of the show. Your eyes need to see it and your ears need to hear it. How did this get made?

[June Diane Raphael]

Let me just tell you something.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, sure.

[June Diane Raphael]

Because you. Everybody this whole how does get made team is really selling me on the 45 minutes of it all. I got lot of you must only 45. Get ready.

[Paul Shear]

43. Jen.

[June Diane Raphael]

43 is 43. It's 40 for. It's going to be so quick. Good news. Good news. Only 43. Here's the link. 43. I felt those minutes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This was interminably long.

[Paul Shear]

It did feel about 90. It did. I did.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Look at the watch when we do that thing where you pause it to see how much is left. I. Every time I had only gotten like three more minutes in and it felt eternal.

[Paul Shear]

I. I was at one point like checking my own because I was like, wait a second, is it not 45 minutes? Because I was watching it all.

[June Diane Raphael]

Lied to me.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The brutalist went by quicker.

[Paul Shear]

Here's. Here's what I will say. I've taken more notes on a 43 minute movie than I've taken in recent memory on. On much longer films.

[June Diane Raphael]

And well, I think the really distressing part. I'm sorry to interrupt, Paul, but you're not. We were in kind of a time panic was also because about 15 minutes had gone by when the narrator announced. So let's begin our story. Yes, that really I was like oh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So much table setting for 43 minute movie. In a way that I was like, I don't. Not only that, but like even now, having watched the movie in its entirety, I believe I still am not sure the story the movie's telling. You know what I mean? So little happens in the movie, you.

[Paul Shear]

Know, I mean, and yet so many things happen that are terrifying.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The kids do get lost in the wilderness.

[Paul Shear]

A girl falls off a cliff.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, that's true. A bear does attack them.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, I guess they take it back.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

A lot does happen.

[Paul Shear]

Here's what I just will say for those of you who have not seen the film, of course that's Jason and June. You don't need to introduce the show.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's a film.

[Paul Shear]

Well, you know, this short. If you've not seen the Christmas tree, this is how IMDb describes it. The heartless Mrs. Mavilda runs an orphanage where kids live in miserable conditions. Because she keeps all the donation money for herself, she hires a new assistant who, along with Santa, helps the kids finally have a Merry Christmas. Now that very much buries the lead, we'll get into all the reasons why, but I do want to start off with just the. The opening sequence, because this is a film that we both. We all agree is interminably long, but yet the narrator is rushing through it. Like, the narrator is like the Micro Machine guy. Like, here's like that opening narration. Mrs. Mavilda was a very tricky person. She didn't really take good care of the children, but she made people think she did. For example, she had a pretty dress with bows and lace and a new pair of pants and a sweater to put on whichever child she was going to show off to the mayor. This way, every time the mayor came by, he always thought that Mrs. Mavilda was taking good care of her children. But after he left a donation collected by the townspeople for the orphanage, Mrs. Mavilda would immediately take off the child's clothes and put them away in a closet for the mayor's next visit. That is insane. The speed in which he is reading that is very quick.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Do you think that's just because they were like, oh, we gotta fill the plot holes. We don't have enough anime. We don't have enough money to animate the whole movie. So we'll just have the narrator.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's weird, though, because at times I did feel like the voices were being sped up, and then there were times I felt like the voices were being.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Slowed down and the scenes felt like the scene is over. The scene has been over for minutes. Why are we still in it?

[Paul Shear]

What is this? They didn't. Animation is expensive. The opening sequence shows you just how cheap this movie is. Because as they're flipping through this Christmas book, it looks like sections of the book are redacted. It's like the Epstein files in book form. It's like they're not even fake text. And when they finally land on the Christmas tree story, the story that we are about to hear, it's a blank page. There's not even a semblance of writing on this page at all. And I was like, that seems like easy animation. You don't have to move it.

[June Diane Raphael]

You just.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's also shocking to me, and I mean this truly shocking when you said 1991, because this is 1970s or 80s level animation and voice work. This looks like the kind of movie that I would have watched as a child around Christmas simply because it was on tv.

[June Diane Raphael]

It was pre vcr, pre choice, you know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. When there was only four channels plus three, you know, UHF channels. You watched like this because whatever was there.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right now I just want to talk about the. The premise of the movie.

[Paul Shear]

Sure.

[June Diane Raphael]

Cause I actually don't think that that logline from IMDb got to the heart of the matter, which is really about this tree named Mrs. Hopewell.

[Paul Shear]

Oh boy. This is. I will say that this is probably the thing that upsets me the most about this movie. That these orphans are so longing for companionship even though they have each other.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay. That's what I wanted to talk about actually, Paul. That right there. They describe this tree as their only friend, as the only. The branches being the arms that wrapped around them. The tree being a place where they could finally connect. Now they all seem like nice kids. They never turn to each other.

[Paul Shear]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Not only that, not only do they never turn to each other, find solace in each other, find community with each other, they're putting it so much on the tree that when the center.

[June Diane Raphael]

The.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would say the central threat in the movie is the chainsaw to the tree. During this scene, there is a missing little girl in the wilderness. She has been. She is gone. But we.

[June Diane Raphael]

Her brother has announced she's gone.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We care more about the tree somehow.

[June Diane Raphael]

As does her mother. Jason.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Her mother stays for that scene instead of going to find.

[Paul Shear]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Going to find her child.

[Paul Shear]

I will say for eagle eyed viewers, when the chainsaw is pulled out, Lily, the missing girl, is in the crowd of children. So she.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh God.

[Paul Shear]

So like, don't be. Don't be alarmed. They might have run out of some animation cells. They had to use the one where Lily is in it. Even though technically in that part of the story, she is missing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I wonder if this was a feature length. Made as a feature length movie, then was cut down to this because then I would understand its choppiness.

[Paul Shear]

There's only one version and it premiered direct to video in September of 91. It played on the USA Network a handful of times and it re aired in 92 and 93 and it was picked up by some small independent Christian television stations. So of course.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, that's okay. Okay, so just to go back to this story For a second, Mrs. McVilda, whatever her name is.

[Paul Shear]

Mavilda, not a real name. Mavilda is a kind of Portuguese for evil and wicked.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, so Mrs. Mavilda is taking the money that the mayor is giving her to run this orphanage because he. She's dressing the kids up very nicely when he arrives, and so he thinks everything's great and gives her, you know, bags of cash.

[Paul Shear]

Two big bags.

[June Diane Raphael]

Big bags of cash. I was also interested in the portrayal of the mayor. Like, not usually seen as, like, generous, you know.

[Paul Shear]

Well, the mayor is running the town because when two people arrive in town, they go, if you need a job.

[June Diane Raphael]

Straight to the mayor's office. But. But Mrs. Mavilda, she's using that cash. This is what I was fascinated by, this choice. Not on herself to buy, you know, luxury items to buy herself. Beautiful clothing to. I guess she is eating. Well, we see that scene of her at the dinner table with a giant turkey. But she's mainly using that cash to bet on card games to play.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's gambling.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yep, she's gambling with it. But she does. I guess my point is she doesn't seem to be doing well at it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, she's a bad gambler.

[June Diane Raphael]

She's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She loses the money card. Well, I mean, like, you know, like, no wonder she's still running the orphanage after all these years.

[June Diane Raphael]

Interesting choice, though. You rarely see a female gambler.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yep.

[June Diane Raphael]

We're not. That's usually not our vice.

[Paul Shear]

Well, here's what I'll say. I feel like she was losing to torture the children. Like, her losses were so egregious because she's like, you know what? I don't care. They'll go hungry.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, really?

[Paul Shear]

Yeah. Because at one point she puts in all the money. She goes, oh, here goes the children's money again. She's enjoying putting the money for. Because she's like, it's. It's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But I don't think she's to lose. Yeah, I agree with you. She's not taking it seriously. She's enjoying the game, but I don't think she's trying to lose it so that she doesn't have to spend it on them. But I am curious that she doesn't want to keep it for herself. She just. She wants that thrill of the game.

[Paul Shear]

I'm also freaked out about this house that she lives in, because the house seemingly that. Well, it's. It looks like a nice house. She has a bedroom that looks like it's maybe in a mansion that would be on, like, you know, a very, you know, like a Bravo show. And. And her office also shining. But then the kids live in abject filth, like wooden floors. Like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I think here's the question, I guess, and I'm dead ass right now when I say this dead ass. Okay, here's the question. Yeah. If she didn't have a gambling addiction, okay. Would she be taking care of the children?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No.

[June Diane Raphael]

Meaning which comes. Okay, but really think about it. Framework of just like through the lens of this is a story about addiction.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[Paul Shear]

Right.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay.

[Paul Shear]

Oh, wait, you're giving this movie way too much credit. I think, I think that you're saying.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Do you think she took the job at the orphanage in order to have access to petty cash and that's what she can use to fuel her gambling? Who was like, I don't think she started out a good orphanage runner. You know, what's, you know, this is. She's like, what's, what's the villain's name in Annie? Carol Burnett. Jesus. Wow, that was wild. Anyway, you know this. How come. Let me ask you this. How come we don't make orphan content anymore? How come we don't. How come we don't seem to care there. Let's be clear. There are certainly so many orphans, but we don't make any modern content set in orphanages about orphans. That's about the plight of orphans. That is aimed. Let me be very clear. At children.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I think a part of that is because there aren't really any American orphans. We. It's a foster care system and it's deeply, deeply flawed. And we fund foster care instead of like funding services for biological parents to actually be able to keep their children. That's a fucked up system in and of itself.

[Paul Shear]

Well, here's what I will say. I feel like orphan movies went through this kind of like euphoria cation. Like, you know, like everything in euphoria is like through the mind of a 30 year old man who is not in high school. And I feel like everything we know about orphan movies are through like Hollywood writers who just saw something ages ago.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is it Orphoria? Our pitch is. It's, it's euphoria. But with four orphans.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

Because I do think that, like, what we have been building on is this idea of what an orphanage is. Just a bunch of kids running around in ragged clothes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This movie feels like it's set in the 30s.

[Paul Shear]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's what's so wild. I mean, I do think that the other trouble, the other trouble the movie has is.

[Paul Shear]

Wait, do we think that this movie was in 91? No. Right. It can't be in 91.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't know.

[Paul Shear]

What.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, the cars are old.

[Paul Shear]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh yeah, the cars are old.

[Paul Shear]

And. And she is wearing a headscarf.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. To me, the trouble is also that. That Mrs. Hopewell, the tree, we never get to really see them connect with this tree.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Can I ask you a question? Yeah, sure. Where's Mr. Hopewell? Like, are we to presume this tree is Mary?

[Paul Shear]

Right. You're right.

[June Diane Raphael]

It is a Mrs. Well, where's Mr. Mavilda?

[Paul Shear]

Well, miss. But that. But yeah, because she's a Mrs. As well.

[June Diane Raphael]

Maybe Mr. Hope Tree and Mr. Mavilda ran off together.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow. Whoa.

[Paul Shear]

Can I just say one thing about the tree? And I hope you guys don't come down too hard on me on this. I didn't find the tree to be that interesting.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Tree sucked.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah. The tree was not an.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, the tree didn't have any personality.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Paul Shear]

Give me, like, a Peanuts level. Like, bad Christmas tree that then Santa at the end will sprinkle some things on it and it grows out, and it's a beautiful tree. And we all are like, oh, my God.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God. Great. That's a great pitch. A tree that represents the orphans themselves. Kind of down on its luck and ragged the way that they do in Charlie Brown. Great point.

[Paul Shear]

And then Mrs. Mavilda, why do you like that tree? It's disgusting. It's an eyesore.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

By the way. Great, Mavilda. Thank you.

[Paul Shear]

I've been working on it. I did not get the part.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But you might be. Maybe hold out hope for Mr. Mavilda in the sequel.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, I will. Love it.

[Paul Shear]

I love it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God. At the end of the movie when Mrs. Mavilda first gets electrocuted by light.

[Paul Shear]

Hit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Struck by lightning.

[Paul Shear]

Yep.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Then is fine. Then goes to work as Judy's assistant in the orphanage, and the line is.

[Paul Shear]

Well, don't worry about Mrs. Mavilda. She's good.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now, this woman has tortured these children and now still is in charge of them. But don't worry, she's good now.

[Paul Shear]

But by the way, she's good now. She learned that you always win when you are good. Wait, what? She never was good.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why is it still about winning?

[Paul Shear]

And why is she working at an orphanage where all the kids have been adopted?

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I have to to say that that's true. They seem to just live there, so.

[Paul Shear]

I don't know, like, reckless to adopt that many kids in one school.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They adopt seven kids and they have two more. But you know what? This town is going to keep producing orphans.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What are they going to do?

[June Diane Raphael]

But I did think that that was pretty bold of Judy's husband, who had been away in the. In the mines, in the yeah, he killed somewhere.

[Paul Shear]

Although he came back looking crystal clear. Like, I mean, he's like.

[June Diane Raphael]

But I mean, like to come back to take a look around and then say we now have nine kids.

[Paul Shear]

Like, which is, by the way, wrong math.

[June Diane Raphael]

A conversation.

[Paul Shear]

Just so you know, when he tells. Yeah, so he said she'll be helping raise their nine children. They already have two, so they're adding five orphans, so it'd be seven total. Oh, like, so there was. There was again, Ray is not.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Plus Licorice the dog and Mrs. Hopewell the tree. I'm sure he's counting those as their children.

[Paul Shear]

By the way. Hopewell felt, felt far away enough from the orphanage house that it didn't seem like Mailda would have like jurisdiction over that tree. It wasn't like a front yard tree.

[June Diane Raphael]

You don't think it was on a property line?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have loved it. I would have loved a scene where they go to city hall and they get actual, the actual property lines laid out.

[Paul Shear]

Well, they do get into that at the end of the movie they go, and technically the mayor says that this tree now is public property. And it's like, oh, we don't have to get into, we don't have to get into like the logistics of, of who can chop down a tree. Oh my God, I don't even know. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help your business stand out and succeed online. Every dream needs a domain. Squarespace Domain makes it easy to find the best name for your business at one fair price, all inclusive price, no hidden fees and add ons required. And with Squarespace's collection of cutting edge design tools, anyone can build a beautiful professional online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business. Even me. Because what did I do when I needed to start the dinosaur improv website? Well, I got on Squarespace, I looked at some of their award winning website templates and I created something that I would never have been able to conceive without seeing this beautiful template in front of me. It made it fast, made it easy, and now the drag and drop technology, everything is clean and clear and you can even make it work for the phone and the computer. What are you waiting for? Head to squarespace.com bonkers for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use Offer Code bonkers to save 10% on your first purchase of a website or domain. You know what? Most holiday gifts end up in a drawer. Mint Mobile is offering unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month. That's their best deal of the year. AKA the only holiday gift you'll actually use every day. You know, Mint Mobile's wireless service is truly next level. Our producer Scott switched to Mint Mobile and he says he notices no difference at all in his cell service and it costs him 40 less per month than his old plan. With savings like that, he doesn't even need to sell the jewels that he stole at the Louvre. That's right, Scott, keep them. Give them to your wife and family. Now don't get them socks, get them Premium Wireless for $15 a month. Shop Mint Unlimited [e-mail] HDTGM that's mintmobile.com HDTGM Limited time offer upfront payment of $45 for three months, 90 dol six months or $180 for 12 months. Plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term Only greater than 35 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com I love my Aura Frame. Why? Because it's like a text chain that never ends. It's the photos that I want to share with my family, but I forget. Aura Frames keeps your family connected even when you're miles apart, making it a perfect gift to give. With Aura Frames you can share photos and videos effortlessly stream from your phone all year long. Plus you get unlimited free photos and videos with the Aura app just connected to WI Fi. I love my Aura frame. It is a staple not only in my house, but my parents house and my friends houses. We share pictures and then you feel like you know what? I know what's going on in their life. They know what's going on in our life. And here's the best part. You don't have to look at the same boring picture on your mantel day after day. Because it's changing. It's constantly evolving. It's a wallpaper of life, people. You can't wrap togetherness, but you can frame it for a limited time. Visit auraframes.com and get $45 off Aura's best selling Carver Matte frames named number one by Wirecutter by using the promo code Bonkers at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code bonkers. This exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal is the best deal of the year. So order now before it ends, support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. I mean, this mayor seemingly is very involved. This mayor is giving out jobs. The Mayor looks at you, you can work in the mine, you can go work in the orphanage, and you can bring your kids there. And like the mayor, why does.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why does Judy and her two children, the only blondes in this town, why do they have to live in the orphanage? Why can't they live in their own home?

[Paul Shear]

Well, because the money isn't coming in yet.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. So, but then she is working off. She's basically working for that room. I mean, I. I struggle with Judy as a mom because she. Well, obviously she doesn't, like, go after her. Her daughter when it's reported that she's missing. But she also, she doesn't seem to take the kids seriously when they are trying to tell her, like, something's very wrong.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, yeah. She.

[June Diane Raphael]

Something's very wrong here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. This. It feels again, it feels like, I would say 1991. Still shocking, because this feels like 1970s parenting.

[Paul Shear]

Right?

[June Diane Raphael]

Exactly.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know what I mean? It has the vibe of like, I don't want to hear from you. Like, when the. When Mrs. Mavilda says to Judy, you have to do this, you have to do this, you have to do this. And then at the end of the day, you can see your children for 30 minutes. Judy's like, that's plenty. Got it. That's plenty. And if anything, maybe too much.

[Paul Shear]

Judy does not react at all when this says, and your children will be treated as orphans.

[June Diane Raphael]

She's like, copy.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, she's got it. By the way, why do they have.

[June Diane Raphael]

To sleep in there?

[Paul Shear]

And it also seems like the orphans aren't being put through any rigorous schedule. Like, it seems like they're going to be bumping into each other a lot. Like, I mean, it's, you know, what.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Happens with Mrs. Mavilda's plan to frame Judy for stealing.

[Paul Shear]

I was just about to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

From the guy. There's a whole thing that gets put in motion that I kind of didn't then track.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I think that's put in motion so that the kids can escape to try to get to Santa, to have Santa solve their problems. But. But basically there's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Those kids would freeze to death so immediately, so quick.

[Paul Shear]

Well, the plan changes twice, right? Because it's. First, the kids are going to go see the mayor, to talk to the mayor and say, hey.

[June Diane Raphael]

But then, Paul, it's after business hours because someone didn't know how to get to the mayor's office because, of course, they had been there the first day.

[Paul Shear]

And this is all happening on Christmas, Ev.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, but.

[June Diane Raphael]

But then they realize I did laugh at this. Then the kids, these kids, these hungry kids realize it's after business hours, it's EOB and a business and that the mayor, this is how locked in this community is that the mayor, they know the mayor's already on the way home.

[Paul Shear]

And the mayor lives way out in the country.

[June Diane Raphael]

The mayor, which by the way, why so far away?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It'll be so much easier to go to where Santa lives.

[Paul Shear]

Right. And this is not a community that seemingly is set in Alaska. Like I would say this is probably Minnesota. Like, let's just say like it's a very, you know, it's, it's a suburban.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Rural, but we've all seen alone. And they are in conditions that are absolutely. These kids are out there with no sweaters on, no hats, they're chit chatting away. They get chased by a bear. A bear that I'm going to say is three stories tall. The bear is so big.

[Paul Shear]

I mean, here's the thing that I'm going to say about that big bear. I think that these kids not knowing jack shit about anything helps them because at a certain point the mom has to explain what Santa Claus and Christmas is like. The kids have no idea what that is. So I guess I'm starting to look at the kids and being like, they have been. Have you heard that story where parents only taught Klingon to their son? And then like child protective services came in and like they had to take the child away because the parents were just intent on only teaching Klingon. So what.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Were they Starfleet officers?

[Paul Shear]

I think that they were. They were, they were part time cling.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Were they? Oh, wow.

[Paul Shear]

Yes. So they were cosplayers who, you know, look, I went to Comic Con one time and I watched the Klingon play, play out in Comic Con Rune and it was great. And they were all in a Klingon language doing a, you know, a piece of, a piece of Klingon literature. But you know, so like, So the. So that to me feels like these kids have no idea what's going on. So they're like, yeah, trees are people. I didn't know about Santa. So when that bear comes to me, I think that they look at that bear like licorice. Oh, it's another dog. It's a big dog.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Big dog.

[Paul Shear]

Like they're not like they don't know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'll be honest, I was rooting for the bear. I was rooting for the bear just because I was like to come out here like, this is so irresponsible I.

[Paul Shear]

Just felt bad that the bear had no Christmas Eve plans.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Did anybody wonder what happened with that giant accident that stopped Judy on the road from getting to pick up the package where she was going to be framed? Like, what?

[Paul Shear]

Judy?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What was that all about?

[Paul Shear]

Judy? I. I have issues with Judy as well, because at one point, like, the kids are not speaking, and Judy's like, hey, hey, settle down. I'm like, they are settled. No one's speaking.

[June Diane Raphael]

Listen, I want a little respect on Judy's name, though. I was deeply impressed with Judy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait a minute.

[June Diane Raphael]

Let's put some respect on her name.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just moments ago, you were dragging Judy's name through the mud.

[June Diane Raphael]

I know, but then I remembered how absolutely intrepid Judy was when she built that. That swing and that platform, whatever. That. That slide.

[Paul Shear]

I have issues with that slide. A wooden slide. Splinters in the butt.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, but, like, they. They didn't have.

[Paul Shear]

No, she was very good.

[June Diane Raphael]

Like, that was real. Now, where'd that stuff go? Did Mrs. Mavilda tear it down?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She wanted to. I think so. Yeah. That. She didn't like that it was there.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. But when she goes.

[Paul Shear]

We never see her.

[June Diane Raphael]

Saw to it. I don't think it's there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. Doesn't. It doesn't appear as though those animated elements were included in the wide shot.

[Paul Shear]

I have a feeling that they had a daylight scene of the slide and the swing, but that the climax at night, so they could not bring it over. Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Hold on one second. Are we to. Are we to understand that Santa sent the lightning to strike Mrs. Mavilda?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's. And didn't we all think that the lightning was going to bring the tree to life, or am I the only one?

[Paul Shear]

I thought that there would be, like. Yes. I almost felt like if the lightning was going to make Mrs. Hopewell come to life and be like, I will now run the orphanage. Not like Judy would take over.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, there was. I felt like there was so much import placed on the tree and Mrs. Hopewell and its protection. The. The tree was personified so much for the children that it seemed to me at some point it must become sentient. It must. It must become the thing the kids are saying it is. And in fact, Judy becomes that thing. I believe. It's not Mrs. Hopewell. Judy becomes Mrs. Hopewell for them. She becomes their advocate. But why does the tree still get all the fucking credit?

[Paul Shear]

Well, the tree gets a lot of credit, but I also think that something's weird with Santa. I do think that the Santa that we Meet because. Okay, first of all, Santa is a very different animation style than anything else in the movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's very true.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

And does seem like that was clip art.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It does seem like it's borrowed from maybe another. Another movie.

[Paul Shear]

And he. I think the way that he looks at everyone in this town is very sexual. I think that he has a glimmer in his eye.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I'm not gonna lie to you, I did. We don't see what happened with Lily and Santa and where he found her, what. That scene, what happened there. But when he appeared with her, I feel like the movie we wanted to feel like, oh, my gosh, Santa found her and dropped her off. And where my mind went was like, what the fuck?

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

What's going on? What the fuck happened?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, we don't get really. We don't get almost any time with Santa, so he's so just deus ex machina kind of dropped at the very, very, very end that it kind of is like, wait, who the fuck is this guy?

[Paul Shear]

And yet he has saved this little girl. But he doesn't say, I saved her. She didn't fall off the cliff. She fell into my sl.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's like, I gotta go.

[Paul Shear]

Gotta go. Yeah, I got these parachutes attached to my presence.

[June Diane Raphael]

I gotta get the out of here. There was something.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I gotta get the out of here before the cops arrive. And if they ask any questions, no presents next year.

[Paul Shear]

I'm worse than Mrs. Mavilda. That's what I think was really going on. Maybe he is Mr. Mavilda.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, that would be cool.

[June Diane Raphael]

Did anybody else question why after we have been told over and over, these kids. Kids don't have anything. They don't have dolls. They don't have any toys. Like, why didn't they ever play with the sled that was outside?

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, well, you're obsessed with sleds. You both are. You guys bought into.

[June Diane Raphael]

I love sleds.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sleds were, like, the greatest thing.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's what I'm saying. That's the most fun thing you could.

[Paul Shear]

Have in a town.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Basically a snow car. You basically had the ability to go fast.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, It's. It could be a child's entire winter.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

One sled.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's an. It's independence. I could ride my sled to other towns. I could ride my sled freedom up and down the coast.

[Paul Shear]

Wait, hold on one second. Wait a second here. This is just a. No. Now. I had a dog sled. I attached dogs to it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And we would run.

[Paul Shear]

We would run much to my Parents chagrin. But like this they feel like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Seriously, Paul.

[Paul Shear]

Oh yeah. What we had.

[June Diane Raphael]

You had a dog sled.

[Paul Shear]

We had a dog sled. Like not like it was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, like an Iditarod. No, no, no, no.

[Paul Shear]

Well, we had.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What are you talking about?

[Paul Shear]

All right. So we had two sleds. One was much more of a metal. So it had two wheels in the back, a little platform that you stood on and then handlebars. And you attached dogs to the front and then they would take off. There was a wheel in the front too. So that was the non snow one. That was the one for.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is not real.

[Paul Shear]

You didn't have. Oh, 100%. So it was like bicycle handle. So it was like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I might have need photos.

[Paul Shear]

I wish. Yeah, it was like a dog.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's like a dog sled train. That's like an out of season training sled for Iditarod dogs. Right, right. Yeah, I would imagine and so forth.

[Paul Shear]

I mean as far as I knew, I just hooked the dogs up to it and they would run and I could. And by when I turn the handle four.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay.

[Paul Shear]

You know, and so, you know, so then I would, I would hook them up to it and they would run with me and then, you know, and I would take them around the neighborhood. I'm looking right now on some websites and I'm seeing it right here. I will, I will kind of show you exactly what it was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There is no. What are you, what are you talking. There's no way. We've done this show for 15 years and we're just finding out that you had Iditarod style dog sled in Long Island, New York.

[Paul Shear]

I'll show you a picture of it right here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What on earth is happening?

[Paul Shear]

All right here. Hold on one second. I'm going to share my screen.

[June Diane Raphael]

Are you serious, Paul?

[Paul Shear]

Okay, yeah, here it is. That's what I had.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What?

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

How can you had enough dogs?

[June Diane Raphael]

Please make it bigger.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, let me see if I can.

[June Diane Raphael]

Looks like fun. I'm not going to lie.

[Paul Shear]

There we go. Sorry. I'm going make it bigger right here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, I get it. But did you have huskies?

[Paul Shear]

No, we had pointers which were like hunting dogs. So. Yeah, that was exact. That's exactly it. It's like, like it almost looks like a tricycle that you attach.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, no, no, I get it, I get it. I'm just like. I don't, I'm explaining it for the.

[Paul Shear]

People who can't see it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I can't rectify. I, I, I, I, I can't, I Can't make it make sense.

[Paul Shear]

Yes. Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Question. You. You're riding around in that thing, and did anyone say, like, whoa, whoa. What, Buddy?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Hey, hey, little guys.

[June Diane Raphael]

Sweetie, sweetie, hold up, hold up.

[Paul Shear]

I would. I would attach the dogs to it to impress my sitter, like, my babysitter, like, who was often a high school girl to show her that I could control the dogs.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You. You. You got the pointers for the sitter?

[Paul Shear]

Well, I didn't get the pointers for the sitter, but I would, like, say, like, hey, you know, hook up the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Pointers just for the sitter.

[Paul Shear]

By the way, what they call this, according to what I'm seeing online, is dry land mushing.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

Okay, so that's what I was doing. I was doing dry land mushing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[Paul Shear]

So.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Which I'm sure. I'm sure made the sitter absolutely soaking wet. What on earth is happening?

[June Diane Raphael]

I am absolutely stunned.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I can't accept this. I really hope we as new information.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, that's really the craziest thing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

When. So is this the same era? Because to have that, you have to have a open space to ride around in. Is this the same era where you had horses?

[Paul Shear]

Yes. Oh, 100. Yeah. We had a dog run behind the barn, and that's where the pointers lived outside. And that was like. Yeah. So I would be cleaning the dog run. So I would go in there and, you know, take the shovel and clean up the poop and everything and hose it all down.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What. What year was this?

[Paul Shear]

I mean, this is all.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sounds like you're describing the teens, the 19 teens. I mean, you look, it was my job to go around the back of this. Of the stables and feed the dogs.

[Paul Shear]

I mean, I had enough. I had to get the salt licks for the horses, and I had to make sure that I put the hay in there. I had to put more hay in their kennels during the winter so they had a warmth, you know, to keep them warm, you know, but they were outdoor dogs. They lived in their outdoor kennels, you know, and that was it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is astonishing.

[Paul Shear]

I don't know where we were going, but I was gonna say, like, now, that's a sleigh. That's a sleigh. That's what I want to see some dogs up to this stuff. Because these kids seemingly are just going uphill at all points. They are using that sleigh as if it has an engine.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, the engine is licorice. You know, eventually licorice is hooked up, Paul shear style, pointer style, to dry. But this is obviously. This is snow mushing, not dry mushing. Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

I guess. We did also have a regular sleigh, too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You did? That was. That was available to you if you.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's. That's good to know. Just for people who are keeping track at home as to what. What you had available at what point in life.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Vis a vis modes of transportation.

[Paul Shear]

And I am looking right now that pointers are good dogs for sled dog racing because they're fast. Yeah. And they have, I guess, a good chest.

[June Diane Raphael]

Just the last question about this, I promise, but was there anybody else that you knew that had this.

[Paul Shear]

No, no, no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I have another question.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, sure.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And this one is real significant.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why. Why did you have both.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The dry and the snow sleds. Did you or anyone in your race these dogs.

[Paul Shear]

That's a good question.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Did you use these as transportation? Like what? Right.

[Paul Shear]

Well, we didn't use it. No, we didn't use it as transportation. We didn't.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm just gonna say why.

[Paul Shear]

This is. Is something that comes up in my book a lot.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I understand why Jesse has the dogs in Life Below Zero. That makes sense. He gets around with them. He needs them. Because he's in a place in Alaska where he needs the dogs for transportation.

[Paul Shear]

Well, no, this. The dogs were. The dogs kind of just were for the dogs. Yeah. I mean, I guess we had them. These dogs were going out. We were hunting with them. We were. I mean, we were always. These dogs were always coming out and doing something. They were, you know, they're pointers. So when they saw a bird, their tail would go up, you know, and then you. And then that's how, you know. Okay, we got a bird.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Did you hunt, like, a lot?

[Paul Shear]

I had. I had multiple guns, but I never was out there to kill animals. I. I would shoot much more.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You had multiple guns? But I was never out there to kill animals.

[Paul Shear]

No, I was out there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Were you out there to kill the most dangerous game?

[Paul Shear]

I would hunt humans, sure. But that's a different thing now. And these pointers are really good at finding bodies. Human bodies. Wow. So interesting. And I. You know, I think. I don't know if I ever mentioned this, but most of my fifth grade class were weirdly shot. I don't know why. Weirdly shot.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

How they. How they were shot was weird.

[Paul Shear]

Weird. It was weird.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah. So I shot a lot more skeet than I did. You know, that was my. That was my bread and butter.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That was my bread and butter. I shot plenty of skeet. That was my bread and butter.

[Paul Shear]

I mean, I've told. I think I've told this on the podcast, that I did kill a lot of quail.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, yeah. So, like, that's what you guys would do. You would go out and do quail hunting?

[Paul Shear]

No, no, no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We.

[Paul Shear]

We raised them and then I would. Then we would chop off their heads and then put them into a featherer and then. And then sell them.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Featherer.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

God, this is so horrible. How does that work?

[Paul Shear]

It's basically like imagine. And I'll give the. The funnier description of it. I didn't do the chopping off that. I did them. I did the thing where I'd stick them in the defeather, where you would hold them by their legs. And it's basically like a steel drum with, let me just say, for your visual, like a bunch of dildos attached to it. And so you. Like. So it's like these rubber things and you put the bird in.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You're gonna pull it off. Oh, okay.

[Paul Shear]

You know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And you would sell the quail?

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, we sell that meat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You'd sell the quail meat in what? Where. Where would you go to do that again?

[Paul Shear]

These are the things I just did the chores, I guess.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I gotta be honest with you. We're just a worker. I wish you'd asked more questions.

[Paul Shear]

I know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I do, too.

[Paul Shear]

As I.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

As I like, you were part of. I want to be clear. You were part of something.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You were part of something that I don't think you understand.

[Paul Shear]

I guess I call it a chicken plucker machine. A chicken plucker machine is what I'm looking at. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why, Paul, who sold the quail? Where? And what were the proceeds used for? Like, what. What system was this a part of?

[Paul Shear]

You know, this crazy stuff. These machines are bringing back memories now.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, God. How are there more memories?

[Paul Shear]

I guess I just felt like we were raising quail, so then we had to. Did you eat them? We had to sell them. We're not going to just keep a bunch. Like, we were raising a tremendous amount of quail.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I understand the concept of if you're raising quail, you're probably selling them.

[Paul Shear]

But.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But in what capacity?

[Paul Shear]

Like, I don't know. I mean, I never went to a farmer's market.

[June Diane Raphael]

We're trying to understand what the funnel looks like.

[Paul Shear]

Well, yeah. So I don't know. I mean, I never. We never.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Black market quail sale.

[June Diane Raphael]

I mean, what did I marry into? Is there a quail fortune. I don't know.

[Paul Shear]

I never went to a farmer's market. I never did that. So I know that we didn't sell it there, but I also think there, we had a big freezer. We were putting things in the freezer. And then I think that people were picking up things from the freezer. People would come by.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think it was much more of a picking up. You think you had a. It was an open freezer and people would just take a quail. Leave a dollar. What is this?

[Paul Shear]

I remember. I remember distinctly saying, we'll leave the garage open. You can come and get the quail.

[June Diane Raphael]

What?

[Paul Shear]

So I think we were selling. We were selling animal meat locally.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Got it.

[Paul Shear]

I think.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Got it again, sure, sure.

[Paul Shear]

Not quite positive. And again, I should have asked these questions. These are great, all these great questions.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would love to know if these were fda. Yeah, go ahead.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. You were just trying to get your chores done. It's like, so you could get on your. Your dog sled and enjoy yourself. Like, I understand. I don't blame you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I just. Hey, guys, I want to hang out. I just have to de feather 300 quail so I can fill up the quail freezer in the garage that everybody will be open.

[Paul Shear]

Now, here's the thing that I will say. I definitely believe that we ate them as well.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sure.

[Paul Shear]

Because we were not raising. When you say 300, I would say we didn't have 300 at a time. You know, so we were probably raising maybe like 50 quail. Like, so we were a little. We were a low tier, you know. You know, probably like. Yeah, like. And you'd go in there and the coop was just a mess and feathers and shit. And you'd have to get in there and dig around.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You lived with a quail coop. We're getting. This is again, this is just astonishing new information.

[Paul Shear]

The quail coop was on the property next to ours, which we rented the house of, but we kept the backyard. So that was like a deal that we had to give.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay. So you had the stables for the horses on our yard, kennels for the dogs.

[Paul Shear]

That was in our yard. That was in our yard.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then the other yard coop and anything. What else is in. Just so I have a. And I would love it if a fan could maybe just do a property sketch of all the information we now know from Paul. I mean, what a. I mean, what a. What a childhood. You know? Like, it feels like when you talk about your childhood, it feels somehow like even though I know you grew up in Long Island. It feels to me like you grew up on Little House on the Prairie.

[Paul Shear]

Well, that, you know, it is interesting. When I do talk about it, it doesn't seem natural or right. And so when I did go back to like look at the house, I was like, did I make any of this stuff up? And nope, I did not. Everything is still aggressively there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is wild. I love this. I love the excavation of your childhood is it is what drives the show.

[June Diane Raphael]

At least two more books coming like men.

[Paul Shear]

I did as you said it, I I forgot about us Mushing Amazon five Star Theater presents Real customer reviews performed by professional Second Opinions reader Tall John Shear Today's a Scented Spice Candle I was gifted the kitchen spice candle at a Christmas bazaar this past year and seeing that my life is surrounded by odd smells. I'm a mortician. I decided to bring it to work. This candle masks the smell completely. My workspace is tolerable. Again, I am recommending this to all my colleagues and friends. This candle literally masks the smell of death. 5 stars Technologic 80 this has been another Amazon 5 star theater performance. I don't know where they got this idea for an ad campaign, but it's really smart. Whatever you're thinking for this holiday, find the perfect gift on Amazon. Why does St. Nick get all the credit when moms do all the work? Michelle Pfeiffer stars as Claire Kloster in oh what Fun, a heartwarming holiday comedy from acclaimed director Michael Showalter. When Claire's family accidentally leaves her at home after she's planned the perfect Christmas outing, she's had enough. So she embarks on an impromptu adventure that turns into the holiday freedom that she never knew she needed. Stream oh what fun on December 3rd on Prime Video and discover why sometimes the best traditions are the ones you never planned. Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the idea of learning a new language? I know that I always want to do it, but then feel like, well, I don't have enough time. And then I try. I maybe buy a book or I commit to it for about a day or two and then it drops. That's why Babbel is built to help you not only get started, but stay started. Look, learning a language with Babel is all about small steps, big wins, and your progress. Their bite sized lessons fit easily into your daily routine and they are easy to remember. Now I love Babel because it's it gives me something to do on my phone when I'm kind of like, well, should I just doom scroll? No, I can actually Learn something. Like, it actually pulls me out of bad habits because Babel is always there. My tutor is always ready. I love Babel. And here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. You can get 55% off your Babel subscription at babel.com bonkers get up to 55% off at babel.com bonkers spelled B-A-B-B-E-L.com bonkers rules and restrictions may apply. Okay, so I'm sorry for that detour.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I apologize. In all sincerity, it was so much better than the movie, truly. But now the fact that we now know you are a, you are a frequent dry musher as a child is huge information.

[Paul Shear]

I have big information that I know.

[June Diane Raphael]

The term dry mushing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, we now we all do.

[Paul Shear]

I, I, I thought that there was something sexual when Ms. Mavilda called Mel fast fingers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

And Mel for sure.

[Paul Shear]

She really does hang out with a bunch of degenerates.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. Like, like, which I like. I do. Oh, yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

That was a choice that I really loved about the movie, which was that she was a gambling addict. And also that, like, her choice of she wasn't hobnobbing with the rich and famous. You know, she was with the dregs of society.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And she also didn't aspirationally have hope. She wasn't trying to buy her way into society or get her or buy her way out of the orphanage into a this or that. Like, she just wants, I think, to party and gamble and fund her habits.

[Paul Shear]

That's why I think that she was losing the money on purpose because she wasn't like, she just wants to shut everybody down because she doesn't even invite the girl, the mom, to play cards. Like, it's not even like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Paul, I'm sort of coming around to your point of view because they do say that about gambling addicts, that they don't actually want to win.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, really?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, that they the, that, that the desire is to try and there's something in the risk of it, but it's not about actually winning.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, okay. Oh, wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

So you might, you might be onto something there. I did appreciate, you know, it's definitely the animation of the time, but I did appreciate.

[Paul Shear]

Just want to be, I want to be clear. It's not the anime. This is, this is like there was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Better some of the other animated movies that are out in 1991. Like, there's toy stories that exist.

[Paul Shear]

No, I mean, this is like, okay, a time of like Rover Dangerfield, Rock a Doodle American Tale.

[June Diane Raphael]

American Tale. Yeah. Okay.

[Paul Shear]

I mean, you know, I love.

[June Diane Raphael]

I love that at least in the 90s, all the women who were villains had purple eyeshadow. That seemed to be very, very important. And I also love you, like those pink lips that when Judy. When Judy went driving and she was on the road and told by that police officer, like, you're not going to get through. Better turn around. She sped off like a bat out of hell. Did anyone notice how fast she drove?

[Paul Shear]

I did not clock it.

[June Diane Raphael]

She knew that car around into a turn and sped away.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

It was hilarious.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm just gonna say that Beauty and the Beast comes out in 1991.

[Paul Shear]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

An American tail comes out in 1991. Fievel goes west. Of course.

[Paul Shear]

Of course.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Rock a Doodle comes out in 1991. These are movies that look very different from this movie.

[Paul Shear]

Well, I mean, there is something about it where it feels like these cells might have been purchased on a black market. You would even say maybe a quail market. You know, bespoke. And you would get this, like. Because there is something about it where this all feels left over. And. And look, I know these kids are supposed to look sweet and kind, but they all look like kids who are having terrible allergy attacks. Like, their eyes are just big enough and watery enough to look like they're just like. Oh, they're like their sneeze is, like, living right in their headspace. They don't.

[June Diane Raphael]

They don't look well facing out. They all stand in the exact same direction at all times.

[Paul Shear]

They have to. I mean, they must. They only had one.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They're using the same cells. Yeah, they're using the same cells over and over again. And it's clear because none of the. You know, they just have written a script to cells that they had, I think, to. To scenes that they had. Because I don't think, like, none of this makes. None of this adds up as a movie.

[Paul Shear]

Well, I mean, I. I also don't understand how the whole town gets involved. At the end of the movie, the entire town is around the tree. It seems like this is a very small issue. Mavilda is gonna cut down a tree and then everyone shows up. But yet again, I just wanna call it back, which is. It is a weird moment because a child is missing, reportedly falling off a cliff in the woods. And a town is much more concerned about a tree that no one has any connection to, because at this point, the tree is not a national landmark. And it seemed like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The boy is crying. The boy is crying. And he says, she fell down. I lost her. He's, like, beside himself. And then it's like, start up that chainsaw. We're killing this tree. And everybody's like, the little girl. We have to save the tree. Which is bizarre.

[Paul Shear]

I mean, is it an ecological story? I don't know. I mean, that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't know.

[June Diane Raphael]

I mean, I do think the way he tells that, the way he shares the news about Lily, like, it does seem so definitive, like, she's gone.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's dead.

[June Diane Raphael]

She's. She's dead. So there is something I. I can't believe I'm on their side, but there's something I do understand. Like, they radically have to accept that news.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Can I ask a question, please? Is the little blonde boy's name Pappy?

[Paul Shear]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Or Happy?

[Paul Shear]

Pappy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Pappy. Happy.

[June Diane Raphael]

Happy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now, why is he named Pappy? Isn't Pappy like, an old man? Like, a grandfather's nickname? Like, you know, my Pappy? Like, yeah, Pappy is not like. It's not a nickname. It's not a. It's not a nickname for, like, a. Like, Patrick or something. I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that this little boy's name is Pappy Lily.

[Paul Shear]

Pappy. Pappy Kindle. You should call my full name also Wonder.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The Kindle family is this Amazon product.

[Paul Shear]

I mean, this is like War of the World's level stuff. You know, let's have the Kindles come in. And you know what? She can read to them. Any story, access anything they want. Magazines, audio books, now in color.

[June Diane Raphael]

By the way, did anyone else wonder, like, what happened to the Kindles in their previous town? Where are they running from?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. And when they show up, the mayor is basically like, I'm going to put you in this thing of this job over here. Like. Like, it seems like he's just getting placed. Not based on his skill set, none of it.

[Paul Shear]

He's just being told to work at a lumber mill.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's communism. I'm going to be honest. That's communism. Whatever your trade is, it doesn't matter. You do this now, right? You are a people. Your family belongs to the town. They're not yours anymore. Your family belongs to the town. They are community property. This is communism. I believe this is a story about communists.

[Paul Shear]

Well, I guess here's the other part of it. The mayor is coming with the bags of money. And the way he gives the bags of money is by seeing that the orphans are in nice clothes, right? But these orphans never leave. So she is doing A bad job. Because I imagine part of being an. Of somebody running an orphanage is like, you want to get some out the door. It's like running a car dealership. You wouldn't get more money in a car dealership if you're not, I don't know, moving products.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think she's getting money.

[June Diane Raphael]

Fill out a report, though, every year. Like, I. You know, there. There were. Maybe there weren't any placements, but, like, this many people came to see the orphans as potential adoptees. Like, because she must have to. She must have to account for something.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There doesn't seem to be. I believe, I'll be honest, any oversight. There's no cps. There's no seems. His.

[June Diane Raphael]

His arrival with the bags of money.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is that this town seems to be the mayor and Mrs. Mavilda.

[Paul Shear]

I mean, it is an orphanage that is run. I mean, like, literally, with the least oversight. It's an orphanage of fear that is run with the least oversight because all he needs to do is see that they are in a pretty dress, and then he. By the way, this is disturbing to me. You look. I've seen a lot of weird stuff, but seeing kids get naked, like, ripping clothes off a kid and having them in their underwear, I'm like, I don't need to see little kids and this, like, this ragtag, big, generic Peanuts gang. I don't need to. I don't ever want to see Lucy in her underwear. I don't want to see the Linus.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't even want you saying. I don't even want you saying what you're saying.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I want it available. Those words I don't want are putting.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Images into my brain that I didn't ask for.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know, I don't want it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Especially about Linus.

[Paul Shear]

I mean, the other thing is, what world is this? Like, is he like. I mean, we are also in a world where, like, why is the money in bags? Why is the money. I'm just thinking about that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Money's always in bags.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, if this is. If this is run. If. If he's sort of running this as a communist utopia, then I do think that in Alaska. Stand in Alaska. I do understand Mrs. M. Vilda's gambling addiction a little bit more.

[Paul Shear]

Right.

[June Diane Raphael]

I understand the need for, like, you know, excess. And stepping out like that does. Even if it doesn't lead anywhere.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, it also. It does. That also feels to me like the idea that this takes place in a frontier town, basically, where it is. People are working in the mine or the mill or whatever. That's how they make their living. But really what it is, it's just lowlifes who are doing gambling and scheming, and it's Mrs. Mavilda and her poker friends. You know, what we don't see is a ton of, like, townspeople who are, like, good people. We just see villains. And the only good person, really, is the mayor, I think, and Mrs. Hopewell, the tree.

[June Diane Raphael]

And Judy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sure, sure, sure.

[June Diane Raphael]

And Licorice.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't trust licorice.

[Paul Shear]

I don't trust licorice either. Licorice, I feel like, left Lily. Licorice should have gone after Lily.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, I will say no. I just. Justice for Licorice because I think Licorice did do a good job fighting the bear.

[Paul Shear]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You're right, you know.

[Paul Shear]

Yes. Which.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But should have been killed. I think. Should have been killed.

[Paul Shear]

Was that bear the same bear from the Jungle Book? It did look like they may have stolen Baloo.

[June Diane Raphael]

Exactly.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's definitely Baloo.

[Paul Shear]

But there was this one moment where the mayor does say. Like, there's weird editing, of course. Like, I think you're right, Jason. Like, there's points where they're, like, they have too much time and they're rushing. Then there's points where they don't have enough time and they're cutting. So you're this weird thing where, like, the end of the movie's like. And then it's all good, and she's great, and we don't even see any images of her. It's just a wide shot saying that everything worked out great. It's like. It's like the way that I get when I'm trying to tell my kids something. I'm like, yeah, it's fine. It's fine. They worked out. Yeah, yeah. Don't worry about it. They're fine.

[June Diane Raphael]

They're good.

[Paul Shear]

But there's this one moment where the mayor goes, I've got enough money here to get the children new clothes and still some left for their Christmas present. Like, it's like, there's a long beat. I've got enough money here to get.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The children new clothes.

[Paul Shear]

Clothes and still some left for their Christmas presents. Like, it's like. Like, I was like, what? What happened? Like, did he have a mini stroke?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's a lot of that kind of stuff where it feels like it's just because they have more footage of the mayor talking, so they're gonna fill it up and make it last. It almost feels like it's. That's what I mean. It feels like when you watch an old TV show. And you're like, why is this scene seven minutes long?

[Paul Shear]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The plot points were over minutes ago. So why is Magnum still hanging out at the King Kamehameha Club? Just to watch somebody fall down in the sand, by the way.

[Paul Shear]

I mean, I would imagine that there. That Mavilda would also get put in jail. It seems like a very lax system. That would be like, you know what?

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, not Judy's fatal flaw.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

And that's where Judy is. You know, her under reaction, her willingness to turn a blind eye. Her. Her, you know, need to, like, rescue Mrs. Mavilda and not restore justice to this town is really deeply troubling.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's a. You know, there is no. Mrs. Mavilda shows no remorse. She really doesn't have a. She doesn't have a real turn in a way that you're like, she got caught.

[Paul Shear]

Do you feel like the lightning strike, like. Like kind of shocked it out of her? Like electro shock therapy. Like, it just. Like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would have loved if they showed that. If she was like. If after the lightning strike, she was, like, wonderful and loving and lovely, you'd be like, okay, she's changed. Santa changed her with lightning. Or like it was a stroke or something, you know, and.

[June Diane Raphael]

Because what we don't hear at the end is that Mrs. Mavilda stopped gambling.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, no, she's just good.

[Paul Shear]

Well, now she maybe just gambles smaller amounts.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

By the way, again, you said justice for Judy. June, I just wrote this line down. There's a moment where Judy tells the kids that they won't be getting the new clothes. And then the kids are upset, and she says, please, children, don't make it more difficult for me.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I know. Listen, I'm so back and forth with her. I just admired her carpentry. What can I say?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Here's the thing. Judy is up against insurmountable odds, so she cannot help but fail over and over again because it's simply too much. That being said, she could do better. She could do better.

[June Diane Raphael]

Judy do better.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know, Judy just do better.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But also, orphans do better. Like, these orphans are just standing around. They are not doing a goddamn thing.

[June Diane Raphael]

And orphans, by the way, do better and turn to each other.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Builds community. Like, people always say that if you feel unhappy in your life and depressed and, like, are constantly making yourself the victim, like, turn around and put some energy into what is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Into the people around you, into the spaces around you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, invest in the opportunities of your. The person to your right. The Person to your left. Don't try and tell me that you can't make yourself a better life unless that tree is your best friend.

[Paul Shear]

Well, okay, so I guess, I guess if I'm. If I'm gonna take away all the things that we've been saying about this movie and just judge it in a. In a way that's like, what was the intention here? Like, what is the Christmas moral of this story?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Such a good question. Like, I don't think there is one believing.

[June Diane Raphael]

No.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Nope. It's not about believing. It's not about the Christmas spirit. It's not about love for one. For each other instead of craving gifts and so forth. I mean, it's not about the spirit of Christmas.

[Paul Shear]

They do say wish harder at one point.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's about one of the. Oh, you know what they do do is the kids all want things. And then the kids are like, I shouldn't want things. I should wish instead for Mrs. Hopewell the tree to be saved.

[Paul Shear]

Right. But also of all the people who don't want things, the kids should get some things. The kids have not gotten anything. They don't have clothes, they don't have toys. They don't know a Christmas.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They have such shitty attitudes.

[Paul Shear]

I mean, they really do. The kids are. The kids are sleepy. I mean, the kids seem like they are.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, starving kids seem like. I'll be honest, the kids seem like Mrs. Mavilda is giving them a Benadryl every morning.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know, you think they might be on drugs because like the fun thing about orphan movies, and I know this is wrong, but when you're watching them as a kid and you're watching Annie, as horrible as the Miss Hannigans of the world are, there's something so appealing about seeing about kids being together.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Even Oliver sleeping in the same. Sleeping in the same quarters. One of the. The little one being way more of a rascal and taking risks and the other ones having, like. There is something so compelling story wise. Watching these stories as a kid.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, I am this, I am that one. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm a voice in the. I'm a voice in the animated movie the Twits, which is one of the Roald Dahl books.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Which has very fun up to stuff. Orphans. The orphans are driving the story because they are. They have the ability to go out into the world and, and stir up. And so they do. And it's. It's a blast because the orphans are. They have agency. They're not just sitting around waiting for some Judy to come make it better.

[Paul Shear]

But, Jason, this is the thing that you have refused to talk about. You also play a mayor in the Twitch, and you are not talking about, oh, boy. Like you have been in this position. I mean, what is the mayor doing right? What is the mayor doing wrong?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So true. It's so true. Because the mayor does not support the. The orphanage in any way. Like, he doesn't show up. My character, the mayor doesn't show up with bags of money. He is so much more focused on his reelection campaign.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, so does your character address Roald Dahl's anti Semitism at all?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He does not. But I will say his butt explodes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, okay.

[Paul Shear]

Hey, that's fair. You know, look, you can't win them all.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

His butt swells and swells and swells and swells until it explodes. Not a fart. His butt explodes.

[Paul Shear]

Well, that is. That is upsetting. So do you. Do you feel like it was an asshole that exploded or it was like a butt cheek explosion?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'll be honest. The. The director, the wonderful director, Phil Johnston, I asked him so many times, what has happened here?

[Paul Shear]

What.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What has. What is the injury? Because you then later see him in the hospital in traction, and it looks like they've done some like, cheek surgery.

[Paul Shear]

Right?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know what I mean? What, like, what was the. What was this like? I need to know so I understand.

[Paul Shear]

How to play it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, of course I understand how to inform my vocal performance.

[Paul Shear]

Right. You don't want to be like this guy who becomes Jimmy Stewart at the end of the movie and in the beginning of the movie. Sounds perfectly normal.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Holy shit.

[Paul Shear]

This is truly one of. Wow. I mean, one of like, again, we keep on saying this recently, like, these are movies that are blowing our minds. Because I'm like, I did not know this existed. And in 45 minutes, I have more questions than I ever have had.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But here's the thing. I am so looking forward to the time when in I'm gonna say 45 minutes from now when I have forgotten this moment movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's already.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm so looking forward to that time. It I like, I still am. I'm thrilled by the way, to still be thinking about and laughing about and talking about my boyfriend's back.

[Paul Shear]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But this I hope to never revisit. This is. This I want wiped clean from my memory as soon as possible. This is to answer the question you're. You're leading us towards. Paul, I do not recommend this.

[June Diane Raphael]

Really.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is. I found this to be to what we were saying earlier so weirdly long, even though it's short. The scenes are so boring and so drag on with just either exposition or unnecessary information. I couldn't make heads or tails out of it.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, and I will say I kind of feel the same. And we did keep our 9 year old up last night a little bit later than usual. 10:00pm you can watch the movie with us. Oh God. And he wanted to go to sleep.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He was like, wait until your sons write books that are revealing the way Paul's book is revealing. But all of the stories are about all of the movies they were exposed.

[Paul Shear]

To, they have seen. And by the way, we get excited when it's a kids movie. Like, oh, finally you can watch it with us. Like the fart movie with Rupert Griff.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh yes.

[Paul Shear]

You know, like they like they. And. And that one I think went over better. I'll tell you this much. I will read you one or two of these second opinions because. But I don't trust them. But here we go. It's now time for second opinions.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Tell me, what is the message? Maybe that art is subjective. I need a second opinion.

[Paul Shear]

So it was very hard to find second opinions for this. So we had to go to Letterbox.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's not a real movie.

[Paul Shear]

It's not a real movie. Yes. So we had to go to Letterbox, even though it went straight to dvd. So it should be able to be reviewed on Amazon. Piss water. Dead girl on letterbox wrote, this is so wonderful. The real children voice acting adds such a beautiful, homey vibe to the whole thing. Their eyes are so somber. It's enchanting. I like this a lot. Five stars. That does seem earnest.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It. It does seem earnest. And I will say one of the things that they mentioned that we did not mention, I don't think is that, yes, all of the orphaned children's voices are little kids voices.

[Paul Shear]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And you can tell. And the kids are struggling.

[Paul Shear]

Well, I will tell you this much. The actress who played Lily, 7 years old, is the real life daughter of the actress who played Judy. And the actor who played Pappy, who is 10, is the real life son of the actor who played Bob.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[Paul Shear]

And all of the actors in this have one credit. Most of the cast is made up mainly of friends and family of the animation crew members. I'm not surprised they save some money here. No union. No union fees here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And of course there's a little boy in this movie named Pappy. So we follow Pappy. I mean like just talking about. I can't wrap my head around a little boy named Pappy.

[Paul Shear]

I will say that 47 Ronin writes a tragedy. Ms. Mavilda is what Lily will become in a few decades. Surrounded by simpering plastic children, a life unfulfilled with shattered dreams. Already she's numbing the pain of her pathetic existence, as evidenced by her drooping eyelids that indicate that she is on substances. No matter the bitterness that will morph into hatred, she too becomes just like her employer, exploiting and abusing those gremlins until years have passed. They will call upon that entity, Santa Claus, to smite her rotten, blackened heart. Another will take her place. And the vicious cycle begins anew. Five stars. What I mean, I mean, I think that what they're saying is, you know, you are destined. Destined. Now this is another one that feels. Again, these are, you know, these are different reviews, but this one, Darth Raider on IMDb we went to go everywhere. Molly went everywhere this week to find these.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Thank you, Molly.

[Paul Shear]

8 out of 10 stars on IMDb and the subject line is Cute Chris Flick for toddlers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Nope.

[Paul Shear]

Saw this when it was on the USA network years ago. And now my kid watches the DVD and loves dancing around to the music. It's a cute little show that young kids can enjoy. Adults and older kids might prefer the standard peanut specials since this one is comparatively a bit rougher and over narrated. The story is non traditional, but it's a nice change from those same old archaic stories of reindeer with light up noses and talking blobs of snow that our grandparents grew up with. Apparently there were some former artists from Hanna Barbera and Disney working on it. And it's played all over the world in multiple languages since its release decades ago. So while it hasn't become a classic locally, there must be a following out there somewhere. I believe this was written by someone who worked on the movie. Yeah, it feels like it. It feels like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Gotta be. It makes no sense otherwise. This is that. That's. This isn't that. By the way, what we saw is not that.

[Paul Shear]

By the way, this is the first time ever in the history of the show that there are only two reviews on Amazon. Two.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, oh.

[Paul Shear]

So that we didn't even pull them because out of two reviews, 68% are five star.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This was the. Okay, so this is the kind.

[Paul Shear]

I don't even understand that math.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

As I was watching it, you know, I don't know, an hour before we recorded, I got, I don't know, 20 minutes into it and panicked because I was like, this can't be what we're actually doing. And I texted the chain to be like, are we. Is this what we're doing?

[Paul Shear]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, just to confirm, because I was so nervous I was watching the wrong thing. Also because it was 47 minutes long and none of it. I was like, am I waste? And then I was like, oh, no, for sure. This is what we're doing doing. And it was. It was very upsetting.

[Paul Shear]

I truly. I truly was disturbed by this movie. It takes a lot to. To shake me to my core. That's why I think I want people to see it. I know that YouTube. Don't you want to. You want to gatekeep this movie, But I believe that. I believe that children, everyone needs to see it and, and then respect the Rankin Bass, the Peanuts a little bit more. A little bit more.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What are the. What are the. Do you guys have holiday movies now in your family that you watch in the holiday season?

[Paul Shear]

Oh, yeah, big time.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, my main one is Mixed Nuts.

[Paul Shear]

Well, that's. That's June's, of course, Efron movie. I think that Jason was asking a movie that I really was Pooh poohing. And now I enjoy it. The family ones, Home Alone, big hit. Home Alone 2. Maybe even a bigger hit than Home Alone 1.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, is that the. Is that Manhattan? Is that New York?

[Paul Shear]

Yes, that's New York.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Great.

[Paul Shear]

Then we're talking about Elf Christmas Vacation is a big one. Those.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What about like Muppet Christmas Carol? No, no.

[Paul Shear]

Took them to see it at the New Beverly. Not into it. They don't like the Muppets.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, oh, okay.

[Paul Shear]

They love June's movie, Eight Bit Christmas.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sure. Of course.

[Paul Shear]

As well as my Christmas movie, the Family Switch, which is a little more of a body switch movie, even though it does take place at Christmas. Christmas. But yeah, those are kind of like the ones that we really.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

By the way, solid list. But do you guys watch like the Rankin Bass? Do you watch the TV specials? Do you watch a Charlie Brown Christmas? The. The. Like any of the ones that we.

[June Diane Raphael]

Watch Christmas will have on, but we won't. It's not really like something.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We'll sit down so you guys don't. It's not like these are the ones we watched as kids now. We'll. You now have like the modern movies that you all watch together.

[Paul Shear]

Together. Yes. I think that that's. And we like that. And our kids taste is getting. It's. It's evolving. They have a lot more. You know, like, this is a big. This is a big year. We might even, you know, show them Lethal Weapon. Well, I was hoping that would be the Christmas movie of my choice. Or, you know, Die Hard has been very close to being shown.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. Die Hard.

[Paul Shear]

Die Hard. I mean, Lethal Weapon and of course, Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Lethal Weapon's pretty brutal. Die Hard.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah. Lethal Weapon is a tough. Goes down. A little tougher.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, no, I think so. But fun, though.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So I like it.

[Paul Shear]

Maybe we'll try a ranking best. Although I.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Family Stone. Were you guys on Family?

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, you know what? I would love to try that out. I hadn't. I honestly had forgotten about it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know what? I haven't watched. I. Because I like the Family Stone. People hate it. But you know what I'm going to. I haven't watched in ages. That I'm going to revisit this year is Home for the Hollow Holidays.

[Paul Shear]

I love Home for the Holidays. And that's a Thanksgiving movie, in my opinion. Yeah. So I. With, like, planes printed on.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

One of the very few.

[Paul Shear]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

One of the very few.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, also, did we. We talk about Christmas vacation? You said that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

Christmas vacation.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay. Yeah. Christmas vacation to me is a very important. It was a very important piece of my child or I just. It felt like a formative Christmas movie.

[Paul Shear]

I. I will tell you the movie that I have gone off of. I used to love A Christmas Story. Love it. Now if I put it on, it irks me in a way and it bothers me in a way that I don't like at all.

[June Diane Raphael]

I prefer to watch. And I know I'm in it, but I do prefer to watch 8 Bit Christmas.

[Paul Shear]

There you go. Yeah, I mean, I also. I think the Holdovers is gonna make a showing now. I think I will watch that. I like the Holdovers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's a good one. I like that. In a plane's Trains and Automobiles way.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, that's a nice one. And I think we were enjoying. You know, we're gonna watch them all. We. We get into it. Like, I feel like the kids might, like, Jingle all the Way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah. That's good.

[Paul Shear]

You know? Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm so excited to stop talking about this movie and watch all of those movies.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So excited. I'm. I'm already. I'm so. I'm. I'm so glad to tell you guys. I'm already forgetting this.

[Paul Shear]

Wow. But please don't forget me mushing dogs on dry land.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Jason, none of us will ever forget you Dry mushing. And also your. Your gray market quail hunting and your de feathering here's.

[Paul Shear]

The thing. We are going to continue talking about Christmas, the three of us, in person with Jessica St. Clair on December 10th. We are going live and worldwide with our annual holiday tradition. How did this get made a holiday for your ears and your eyes? Because we are doing it via video. We'll be in the same room. It'll be a lot of fun. There might even be some fun treats. We'll be announcing the movie very shortly. But you can get tickets.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, you've been listening to this podcast for so many years, you have no idea what we look like.

[Paul Shear]

No idea.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why not tune in to streamline, See.

[Paul Shear]

Us in real life. And so get your [e-mail] or just go right to veeps. Jessica St. Clair will be there in person, which means no tech issues. But. But will she get there on time? Question mark?

[June Diane Raphael]

It really is a question mark.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, there's no way she'll be on time. I'm willing to say that.

[Paul Shear]

Now, June, you are going to be doing a Christmas special a couple days before ours, right?

[June Diane Raphael]

That's right. Now, this is a different type of Christmas special, and I do hope Jessica can make it because she is, well, hosting it.

[Paul Shear]

Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know, so I do hope she will be there, but this is our deep dive second annual Christmas spectacular. Paul will be doing a tour of his Christmas village.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

So we'll be able to check in on what all the villagers are up to, what's happening in the town. That's really exciting. It's such a fun show. We will be talking trees and we will talking Krampus. Professor of holiday studies. Yeah, Stoff Shear, Paul's cousin will be coming on to discuss Krampus. So we'll be learning. We'll be celebrating head to head thedeepdiveacademy.com for tickets and you can use code howdy for $5 off.

[Paul Shear]

Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

All ticket prices making us look bad.

[Paul Shear]

By not having a code.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Howdy. Howdy. Why? Or Howdy I E. Great question.

[June Diane Raphael]

H O W D I E. Why?

[Paul Shear]

Why pick up such an odd password? Howdy. How does that tie into the just dive divers?

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, because. Well, this code is just for hats get made list.

[Paul Shear]

Oh, got it, got it. Okay, okay. Got it, got it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, so it's a tip of the hat to the Howie.

[Paul Shear]

I love it. Yeah, I still love that. For our show, we use code Bonkers for mental health. Yes. For a mental health advertiser. Like, hey, you want to get your brain in check? Use the code Bonkers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Hey, you know what? It'd be great for you to talk to a mental health professional. All you need to do is for 15% off. Put in the password. I'm cuckoo bananas.

[Paul Shear]

Jason man on The Inside Season 2 is now on Netflix.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Man on the Inside Season 2. Get it while the getting's good. And Percy Jackson Season 2 is right around the corner. And then as always, guys, you know it's a great holiday watch when you've got downtime. It's called taskmaster. Yes, season 19 is all on YouTube. Season 20 just finished. Fantastic season. Watch that as well. Why not?

[Paul Shear]

And if you are looking for a gift, you can get my book now in paperback and hardcover. And you know what? If you get it in early, I can even sign it for you. All right, well, don't watch it. Or maybe watch it. If you do watch it, don't tell June that you did. That's a wrap on the Christmas tree. We hope you all sit down with your family after Thanksgiving and enjoy this wonderful film together. If you have anything that we might have missed. And you know what? There's a lot here. We didn't even talk about the fact that there are two characters that are just shadows. They weren't even colored in or even drawn for that matter. So there's a lot to add to this conversation. You can give us a call at 619 Paul A S K. That's 619 Paul. Ask or write a comment on our Discord. You can go to our discord at Discord GG hdtgm and we will respond to your messages and your comments on next week's last looks. Plus, Jason and I will sit down, talk about what we're watching. Also meet up with our old engineer, Devin Bryant. Will be a blast. And if you want to give a gift of how did this get made this holiday? Well, guess what? We have brought back our first shirt. That's right. Ridiculous cage is up. Take a look. The very first shirt that we took down because we were going to get sued and now we've put it back up. It's in our merch store. Just go to hdtgm.com you can also get a How did this get made Hat that are very fashionable. And remember, if you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, please make sure you are subscribed to our feed and have automatic downloads turned on in the show settings. It helps us and we appreciate it a lot. A big thank you to our entire team. Our producer, Scott Sonne, Molly Reynolds, our audio engineer, Casey Holford, our social media manager Zoe Applebaum and of course, our intern, Quinn Jennings. We always want to just also give a shout out to Avril Halle and just put good wishes in the air for her. We are always thinking about her and that's all we got for now. See you next week on LAST looks. Your co workers eating mystery leftovers again. But you, you respect your lunch break. Grab a new toasted pizza sandwich from Jimmy John's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, toasted.

[Paul Shear]

Try the Sicilian salami capicolo ham, rich marinara, gooey mozzarella and oregano basil, all on golden French bread. Or go cheese mode with the three cheese parmesan provolone mozzarella dripping with marinara and herbs. Hot melty seafood, seriously satisfying. Order one pronto. Jimmy John's new toasted pizza sandwiches. Oh, that's good. At participating locations for a limited time while supplies last.

[June Diane Raphael]

Black Friday is here. And Pandora Jewelry is offering up to.

[Paul Shear]

40% off storewide and site wide.

[June Diane Raphael]

Now through December 2nd. Explore jewelry designed to last beyond this season, from classic charms to modern rings, bracelets, earrings and more. Whether your holiday shopping, shopping or treating yourself, now's the perfect time to find something special. Save up to 40% on the jewelry you love. [e-mail] or your local Pandora store. Exclusions apply.