Tuff Turf (HDTGM Matinee)

Summary

How Did This Get Made? - Episode: Tuff Turf (HDTGM Matinee)
Release Date: April 22, 2025
Hosts: Paul Scheer, Jason Mantzoukas, June Diane Raphael
Guest: Laci Mosley

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Introduction

In this episode of "How Did This Get Made?", hosts Paul Scheer, Jason Mantzoukas, and guest Laci Mosley dive deep into the 1985 teen drama "Tuff Turf". Featuring a young James Spader, Kim Richards, and Robert Downey Jr., the film blends high school antics with unexpected levels of violence and questionable plot choices. The trio dissects the film's strengths and glaring weaknesses, offering humorous and insightful commentary throughout.

Movie Overview

"Tuff Turf" centers around Morgan, portrayed by James Spader, a rebellious teenager who moves to Southern California after his family's business collapses in Connecticut. As Morgan navigates his new high school environment, he encounters Frankie (Kim Richards) and gets entangled with a gang led by the menacing Nick (Robert Downey Jr.). The film attempts to blend elements of high school drama with more intense action sequences, resulting in a confusing narrative that oscillates between genres.

Cast Performance

• James Spader as Morgan:
  Paul praises Spader's early performance, noting, "This is the first time that James Spader has top billing. So this is a big movie for James Spader" ([03:09]). However, he expresses confusion over Morgan's character arc, stating, "I couldn't quite tell in that scene. It's like, is it supposed to be like the dad has nothing to say or the writer is like, these are good platitudes" ([26:03]).

• Kim Richards as Frankie:
  Laci comments on Richards' hairstyle, initially mistaking her for another character due to her "novelty long" hair ([04:17]). Later, she appreciates Richards' depth, saying, "I have so much respect for that dad... it's such a good choice for her, and it made me really care about her" ([50:54]).

• Robert Downey Jr. as Nick:
  Jason highlights Downey's "comedic heavy lifting" and chemistry with Spader, though he criticizes the lack of setup for Nick's eventual rescue of Morgan, stating, "I would have loved it more if those had been established better" ([54:12]).

Plot Analysis

The hosts identify significant plot inconsistencies and tonal shifts that undermine the film's credibility:

• Violence vs. High School Drama:
  Jason notes, "Once I realize people can be shot, you're like, I don't know if this is a teen movie or something else" ([35:08]). Paul adds, "This movie is like that heightened quick. We did we get out of the fun High school immediately" ([37:39]).

• Character Motivations and Development:
  The trio questions Morgan's motivations, especially his seemingly indifferent reaction to his father's shooting:

  • Paul: "James Spader... is truly unmoved by his father being shot taking multiple times" ([34:04]).
  • Jason: "She is having a complete emotional arc based on the events... he is completely disconnected" ([63:26]).

• Logical Inconsistencies:
  Concerns are raised about Morgan's ability to thwart the gang's plans without consequences, and the lack of follow-up after significant events:

  • Paul: "Why does the brother not help more? It seems that the brother is doing well" ([56:02]).
  • Jason: "I can't figure that out" regarding why Nick isn't detained longer ([53:49]).

Notable Scenes

1. Opening Robbery:
   The gang's attempt to rob a man is criticized for being overly complicated and poorly executed:

   • Jason: "So the split is gonna be very unsatisfying" ([12:00]).
   • Paul: "They had worked out so much that everybody had a role. And so they all had to like nod and be like, okay, now you go" ([12:25]).

2. Morgan's Vigilante Moment:
   Morgan's impromptu heroics are likened to a "happy Batman" cliché but are marred by awkward execution:

   • Paul: "He's like a happy Batman... grabs a spray paint can, spray paints all the attackers, unarms them" ([08:24]).
   • Laci: "I just wanna see him beat their asses, but every time he gets like one step ahead, he gets caught and just beat down" ([38:56]).

3. Music and Concert Scenes:
   The film's incessant musical interludes are both praised and panned:

   • Jason: "The songs are shot cool... the soundtrack is great" ([89:39]).
   • Paul: "We cut to a live band dance sequence... and how they keep clipping between high-octane scenes and musical numbers feels jarring" ([87:35]).

4. Final Warehouse Fight:
   The climax in the warehouse where Morgan seemingly kills Nick is critiqued for its abruptness and lack of resolution:

   • Paul: "Why can't James Spader save the day? I want him... I don't feel triumphant that he kills this kid" ([59:16]).
   • Jason: "Once I realize... he's a psychopath killer who has... you're like the dissonance between, wait, I thought these were kids" ([57:47]).

Critical Insights

• Tone and Genre Confusion:
  The movie struggles to balance its high school drama with unexpected violence, leading to a disjointed viewing experience. The hosts agree that this lack of consistent tone is a primary reason the film is considered "bad."

• Character Depth and Development:
  While James Spader's and Robert Downey Jr.'s performances are highlighted as strong, their characters lack sufficient development to justify their actions, especially Morgan's detached response to traumatic events.

• Production Choices:
  Decisions like Kim Richards' exaggerated hairstyle and the inconsistent lighting in scenes are pointed out as distractors that detract from the film's overall quality.

• Box Office Performance vs. Legacy:
  Though "Tuff Turf" achieved modest box office success, its legacy is marred by the aforementioned issues, making it a prime example of an 80s film that didn't quite hit the mark despite a talented cast.

Conclusion

"Tuff Turf" serves as an intriguing case study in how blending genres without a clear vision can lead to a disjointed and underwhelming film experience. While it boasts a noteworthy cast and a catchy soundtrack, the movie's inconsistent tone, flawed character development, and plot inconsistencies prevent it from achieving its potential. The hosts appreciate moments of genuine effort but ultimately question how the film managed to gain any commercial success, aligning perfectly with the podcast's mission to celebrate and dissect "the very best of the worst" movies.

Notable Quotes:

1. Paul Scheer ([03:09]): "This is the first time that James Spader has top billing. So this is a big movie for James Spader."
2. Laci Mosley ([04:17]): "I was worried about it. It was such a disgusting length."
3. Jason Mantzoukas ([12:00]): "The split is gonna be very unsatisfying. Each of them's walking away with maybe five bucks."
4. Paul Scheer ([26:03]): "I couldn't quite tell in that scene. It's like, is it supposed to be like the dad has nothing to say or the writer is like, these are good platitudes."
5. Jason Mantzoukas ([57:47]): "It's really like the movie is very bifurcated in that sense because it is like up tempo new wave dance. This is a dance scene..."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the main discussions, insights, and critiques from the "Tuff Turf" episode of "How Did This Get Made?", providing a clear and engaging overview for those who haven't listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Paul Scheer]

This episode is brought to you by max. The critically acclaimed HBO original comedy series the rehearsal. Season 2 is streaming now on Max. The rehearsal follows one man's journey to reduce life's uncertainties. With a construction crew, actors and vast resources, Nathan Fielder helps people prepare for life's biggest moments. In Season two, his project grows to address an issue affecting everyone. Created by and starring Nathan Fielder, new episodes of The Rehearsal Season 2 debut Sundays at 10:30pm exclusively on MAX.

[Laci Mosley]

What's Poppin listeners? I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake errors? We got em. What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know they are represented. Cause representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison iii, Conan o' and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

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[Paul Scheer]

Car antennas, weighted gym socks, old billboards, and axes are all things that hit people. In this movie we saw tough turf, so you know what that means.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now it's time for how to discover.

[Paul Scheer]

We'Re gonna have a good time, celebrate.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Some failure, not just be a hater.

[Paul Scheer]

Catch.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know you wonder how did this debate let's wall in mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question how did this get made?

[Paul Scheer]

Hello people of Earth, and welcome to how did this Get Made? I am Paul Scheer, and today we are talking about tough turf. James Spader, Kim Richards, and Robert Downey before he was a junior. It's a story basically just like Rebel Without a Cause, but different and less dramatic. But a young kid comes to a new town, starts to flirt with a girl and the gang doesn't like it. I mean, there's more nuance than that. But we'll get into it all with my two co hosts. Please welcome Jason Mantzoukas and June Diane Rayfield. Welcome, both of you.

[Laci Mosley]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Laci Mosley]

Thank you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow. How. I'm curious. I had not only never seen this movie, but I was not, because this is, like, square. This is. Now I looked it up, 1985. This is square. In the period of my life, you know, I'm 13 years old, at that point where I would have known. I knew all these actors I knew. Why have I never seen or even heard of this movie?

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, well, this is the first time that James Spader has top billing. So this is a big movie for James Spader. But I feel like this might have been the beginning of the wave that we know. Spader. I think it's there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, we see Spader and Downey later in Less Than Zero, but, you know, this is. I mean, and to see young Kim Richards, who I also recently saw in an episode of Magnum P.I. go ahead, June.

[Laci Mosley]

Well, I was actually. I did not realize it was Kim Richards till I was so distracted by the length of that hair. So it took me a while to realize that she felt so familiar. And then I. It hit me like a ton of bricks.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Was anybody else worried that that long hair was gonna get caught in the bike wheels when she's riding?

[Laci Mosley]

I was worried about it. I was worried about it the entire time. It was such a disgusting length.

[Paul Scheer]

And when you say long, it wasn't like long for the time. It was like Guinness World.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was like Crystal Gale long.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, it was like novelty long.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Laci Mosley]

And crimped and. Yeah, so actually longer.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So even longer.

[Laci Mosley]

We saw it with a curl that was strai. It was so. And you know, it's something interesting about long hair and women because it's like it. It's seen as attractive, attractive, attractive, attractive. And then it gets too long. And hers was actually like a foot too long. But anyway, all of this is to say, Paul, I'm actually really upset that we didn't do a crossover episode with Casey and Danielle of Bitch Sesh to have some, like, Real Housewives historians on. And dramatic.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm mad as well. We're both mad at you.

[Laci Mosley]

I was really upset.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm upset, too.

[Laci Mosley]

I have to turn on this movie and nobody tells me, nobody alerts me, nobody says boo about the fact that there's a real Housewife starring in it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

By the way, I know either.

[Paul Scheer]

Secondly, until mid movie, I also didn't put it together, so it was weird. Sneaker upper.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think maybe just because, like I said, I saw her recently on an episode of Magnum P.I. the minute she showed up, I was like, oh, my God, that's. And I've never seen her. I don't know Real Housewives. But I was like, that's that same woman who I just saw in Magna PI. That was one of the Real Housewives.

[Laci Mosley]

And what's so tough. What's so tough in this moment for me is that you don't know Real Housewives.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I know I can't now trade on any of the.

[Paul Scheer]

I know a little bit because this is my one that I like. I like Beverly Hills, but I can't go as deep as June. I can't go as deep as Kayce. If we want to maybe try to get them on the phone for the end of the episode to see if they can weigh in. I mean, I'm all for it.

[Laci Mosley]

It's just so hard. Cause it just feels so.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Should we write to them right now and ask them to immediately start watching the movie? And then we'll call them in 45 minutes?

[Laci Mosley]

I will say. Cause I guess I have to speak on Behal half of, like, the canon, you know, the Bravo lore. Like, it's so crazy because, like, it's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like the great works of literature. Like, speak to it.

[Laci Mosley]

She needs to speak to it. It's like, I'm not gonna not say something. You know, my silence would be deafening. So what's so wild for those of us who know current Kim is she's so out of her mind. And.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, it's.

[Laci Mosley]

It's pills.

[Paul Scheer]

It's.

[Laci Mosley]

I don't know what it is, but it's something. And she is Gone Girl as a person. And I have such a movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Gone Girl as a person.

[Laci Mosley]

Yes. Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

To me, I feel like she is this character. If she hung out with the leader of the gang for, like, 30 more years.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. If she stayed with Nick. Is that his name?

[Laci Mosley]

Well, what. That's. What's so shocking to watch. Kim Rich Young Kim Rich. I thought she did a fantastic job.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But I'm like, she's great.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow.

[Laci Mosley]

She's putting sentences together. She's getting a thought, you know, communicated. She's walking and talking like it was such a. It was such a shock to see her this way. And I never knew she had hair that long. So there's just a lot that I need to connect on, and I don't. I feel alone here.

[Paul Scheer]

Not extensions. That was real hair. That was real hair.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, it was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's real hair.

[Laci Mosley]

It's 1000% real hair.

[Paul Scheer]

I do want to just speak to what Jason was saying about knowing all these people at this point. This is a year before Pretty in Pink comes out in the. In the theater. So, you know, so this kind of walks us back a little bit. I also would argue that James Spader, even though he looks like a man in his mid-20s, is doing something very different than any other James spader in the 80s role. He's normally like the coked up dude, the rich dude, and there is an element to that, but he's also kind of like this Batman character. Like, I felt like, am I watching, like, high school version of Drive that movie? You know, it's like there's, like, there's an energy here. I was like, oh, I was waiting for him to, like, well, go crazy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, it had all of the. Like you said, Rebel Without a Cause. It had. It was like 10 movies in one. It's like, it's a. It's a 1985 movie, and it's set in. It's set then. So everybody's got all the. All the styles, all the new wave music. Everything is 80s, but it has the structure of, like, you know, 50s style gangs who are concerned with turf. Like, we didn't. Nobody talked about, like, whose turf is this in the 80s? That's like 50s gang speak. That's like west side Story or Grease. Or again, it's another 80s looking back at 50s style, like. Like, heist. Because again, this is a high school gang of toughs. We.

[Paul Scheer]

We open up this movie with a. First of all, someone needed to tell the dp, like, hey, we. We should put a light on some of these nighttime scenes. Because when. When Spader is biking around and there's another time when they're driving around at night. Like, it is dark. It's like if I took an iPhone photo.

[Laci Mosley]

Because then, yes, it's too dark there. But then like, when they're at the club where Robert Downey, period, just Downey is playing with his band in the warehouse, it's bright as day.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yeah. No, they light the scenes inside.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Great. Or. Or they just shot them during the day.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, but it shouldn't be so bright. Like, I was like, who wants to party in this? I want a nice dim.

[Paul Scheer]

That. That one dance sequence with Jim Carroll. Jim Carroll.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Carroll band. Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Jim Carroll. Basketball Diaries. Like, I'm like, wait, this movie is truly blowing. Like, I wrote down, I think I love this movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm not sure my only grievance with this movie, quite honestly, is that. It's almost two hours long.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, it's very long.

[Paul Scheer]

One hour and 52 minutes. And I looked at it, I was like, that has to be a mistake, right?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's got to be. Yeah. Otherwise though, I like you. I was like, I would have loved this in the 80s. I would have loved a high school set. Drama, contemporary drama a la those kind of those old movies, like, you know, gangs and fights and all the. But. And then good music. It's like Marianne Faithful, Jim Carroll. Like, there's all these great new wave artists. There's all this great music that's in. I mean, they've also got like throwback, like Booker t. And the MGs, you know, like, there's like. It's a great soundtrack. It's really interesting. Good, good actors. I was like, but this movie, I've never even this. I don't know anything about this, but.

[Paul Scheer]

It also, to me, I mean, I enjoyed it. And I also have so many questions because the movie opens up in this sequence where you're watching this kid go, well, I don't even know if it's kids because it's so dark. And we learn it's James Spader, but bicycling through and it's not even a cool bike. It's just kind of like a normal 10 speed. It doesn't, you know, and you're like, what am. What's the tone here? What am I seeing? No parking sign. Okay. That doesn't really give me that much. Cocktails. Well, that's just a bar. It doesn't seem like, I don't know what kind of city they're trying to let me know that we're in, like. But it just seems kind of normal. And then you get to this scene where there's an old man, you know, middle aged man, not an old man, middle aged man out on the street waiting for a cab. Young woman comes up to him to ask him for some money, which he immediately thinks is gonna go his direction. He asks her for a drink, even though she does look like she is a high school student. And this is all a ploy to kind of violently rob him. I mean, the way that, that opening.

[Laci Mosley]

Sequence, I don't know why they needed like eight people.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, the split. Why.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So I wrote that too. The split is gonna be very unsatisfying. Each of them's walking away with maybe five bucks, you know what I mean? Or ten bucks.

[Laci Mosley]

And what a risk, you know, too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Many people to just be mugging one guy.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm the dude that holds the antenna. Well, I'm the dude who does the lookout. I'm the girl who's the guy. I hold the knife.

[Laci Mosley]

No, you know what? There was really. The extraneous person was the other girl.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yes.

[Laci Mosley]

She's the one who just gave like sort of a thumbs up. But it's like. But, but she's the lookout. But Kim Richards could have easily done that. That was really. That felt extra, felt bloated.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They had worked out so much that everybody had a role. And so they all had to like nod and be like, okay, now you go. And I was like, well, they've clearly put work into this, but actually they've overdone it. You don't, you don't. Like, once Kim Richards starts talking to the guy, if you're just gonna grab him and push him up against the wall, you can do that now.

[Laci Mosley]

I mean, too many cooks in the.

[Paul Scheer]

Kitchen because that guy is not gonna put up a fight that you don't need. You don't need to run game on this man too. Because all they did was grab him and throw him into a wall. Like, they didn't need anything more than the one guy to grab him and throw him into the wall.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It felt like a. And in doing so, like. So like the opening of this movie is this, you know, street toughs robbing a guy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But. So it felt like I almost like the warriors or something, you know, it felt like. And then hard cut to Spader rides his 10 speed in foils the robbery, rides off, and next thing you know, it's a high school set montage. And, and, and I was like, what is this?

[Paul Scheer]

Can we just talk about Hill? He comes in. Cause again, we're following this person on his bike. It just seems like he's riding around in the middle of the night. It has those feelings of like, I can't sleep, insomnia, whatever. And then he's whistling a jaunty tune. He's like a happy Batman. He is so fluid. He grabs a spray paint can, spray paints all the. The attackers, like unarms them, and he's singing a song and then just kind of rides off into the night. And the gang is like, oh, who the hell is that? But it's so weird because you're like, oh, this is a story. This is a vigilante story. This is like a.

[Laci Mosley]

This is a. I thought it was gonna be a very cool writer from Grease 2. Grease 2.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, we remember it.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, Grease 2, which I did buy June, the LP. We have the vinyl here in the house. I will say, though, that I still think it's a high school movie because before that sequence that you talked about Jason, that high school sequence, we cut to James Spader in his bed full of roaches. His bedroom is full of roaches and.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You'Re on the wall.

[Paul Scheer]

I was like, and his room is a mess. And we see him under these covers like Cameron from Ferris Bueller's Day off. And, like, is he sick? What's going on? Is he. Has he gone catatonic? What is happening? And then he all of a sudden moves with these two. What we learn are like paintball guns.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They seem to be shooting darts.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay. Because I thought there was like a little blue splat. All right, so two dart guns that he then perfectly aims at these two cockroaches on a Albert Einstein posters, like, bam, Bam. And I'm like, oh, shit, this is a revenge movie. He never shows that. Again, like, he never shows.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, he's not a sharpshooter. He's not a. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Never shows any.

[Laci Mosley]

He's used them at the very end.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, he uses.

[Laci Mosley]

I think what you're getting at, Paul, is. Was my concern as well, which is, like, I never quite understood what Spader. And I love Spader. I've always loved Spader. I just love him. I never quite understood what his character Morgan. Wanted. Wanted.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. And. Or what he cared about.

[Laci Mosley]

What he cared about. Like, I get that he's sort of taken with Frankie, but in that first scene on the bicycle, it doesn't seem like he has this moral compass and is this sort of crime stopper or anything like that. It just seems like he happened to be there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think he just likes mixing it up, you know, and it sounds like he's always getting in trouble. Like, he. They got. He got in trouble in Connecticut. He got in trouble at boarding school, got kicked out. It seems like he just gets into trouble.

[Laci Mosley]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, and like to. Not to jump ahead too far, but, you know, later in the movie, his father is shot by the. By the main guy who's bullying him and who's, you know, you know, issuing him savage beatdowns with the. The locks in the towels. That was like a brutal scene anyway, but Spader doesn't even react to his father being shot. He doesn't.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my God. When that happens. Well, he seems to be like, what we're trying to bond with is this kid used to be super rich and now he's poor and he's like mad. His brother still seemingly is rich. Is he mad though?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Did he poor?

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, he wants to show up the rich. Cause I think there's an element to him like, the rich kicked me out. That's why he wants to break into the country club. I think he wants to be like, I used to play this game, I don't play it anymore. But he also doesn't feel like Spader.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is still in that world and he's, he's. Well, once again, a little bit to what you both have said so far, like Spader. It doesn't. Spader feels great in this movie and is doing a gangbusters performance. But he doesn't seem. I don't believe him. The only thing I don't believe is that he's these people's son.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yes. No, I mean.

[Laci Mosley]

Okay, well, I have so many questions.

[Paul Scheer]

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[Laci Mosley]

The scene where Spaders Morgan's older brother Brian is, is back. And we've heard before that like Brian is, you know, the, the son and his son, all the right things. Fine. So with the scene where he's introduced, he's sitting with his mom outside and they're drinking wine. And I thought for sure, sure. Oh, when I first saw them together, this is a date. Or this is her boyfriend and the guy we saw earlier was his grandfather. Okay. Like the ages. And this sort of. Because that guy seems so old.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, when we saw his dad or oh, I see the brother, the dad. So when I. Because, so when we see him. Spader, jump on his bike and leave for school. His dad's coming in from being a cab driver at night. And I. And in my mind, I was like, okay, I buy this version of it. I buy Spader as the independent son of a single father who's older and is. They don't really. They're not connected much. That made sense to me. But when they were instead, like, a family unit that had just been displaced from, like, Tony, Connecticut, kind of then I was like, oh, wait a minute now. I don't understand what this is.

[Laci Mosley]

What happened in Connecticut?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, his dad's business went under at one point. That's all we know is it went under. He didn't seem like his dad did anything wrong. It just went under, I think. And. But there's a moment, okay. There's a moment in the movie where he's like, this isn't Connecticut, Mom. Things are different here in Southern California. Like, you could almost make a very clear connection to, like, the OC and Connecticut, Laguna beach and.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, but this, I think, is receded.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Laci Mosley]

This is.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, is it? Oh, yeah. Because it's like, what this is. What does it say on all the signs? Like, to Hunga or like, Toluca? Like, oh, does it? Yeah.

[Laci Mosley]

But this is not the oc. This is not Dana Point. This is.

[Paul Scheer]

It doesn't seem that. I mean, I guess it is rough, but it's like, it doesn't seem like this is a whole different world than Connecticut.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Definitely is different than, like, Tony kind of country club town. It's not that, you know, they have to drive to whatever Beverly Hills were, wherever they go to go to the country club, you know, which is. Which is fun and a funny set piece to give him an opportunity to kind of flex the nonsense of what he used to the systems he used to live in.

[Paul Scheer]

I have so many clips from that, by the way. I think that that moment might have been Robert Downey Jr's audition tape for Saturday Night Live, because he does shoot this movie and then goes the next year to Saturday Night Live. Like, oh, his character work is great. Oh, yeah. Because he. And again, Robert. I'm not making fun of it. Robert Downey is likable and fun and whatever, but it's like, he definitely does a lot of the comedy heavy lifting and that scene. You feel like they're like, improvise, and he just improvised and did his own thing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. And it. And it felt. They very much felt. Even though they only share a couple of scenes together, he and Spader feel very comfortable with each other. And they have great chemistry and they also are both doing really good versions already. Pretty great versions of like their performance style to come.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. This is even though there's like a weird prequel to like Less Than Zero. It's like a, it's a low stakes Less Than Zero. Like you're like, oh, I, I like, like somebody clearly saw this movie and was like, oh, we'll put them all together. I just want to, I just want to play this one clip because we're talking about the dad and we may not get back to the dad rip of with the dad giving like all these platitudes to him. Like when he talks to him about like what it takes to be a real man. It's like, it's. He's saying. And I, he, well, listen, just, just.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Cut out that self pitying crap. I don't want you to be Brian.

[Paul Scheer]

I want you to be you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All right, so you screwed up.

[Paul Scheer]

So what?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I expect you to make mistakes. That's what life's all about, for God's sake. How else are you gonna learn who you are and what you believe in?

[Paul Scheer]

What do I do right now?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right now? You do what you really want to do. Do whatever it is that you know is right, that you believe in. That's all. And feel good about it. Life isn't a problem to be solved. It's a mystery to be lived. So live it.

[Paul Scheer]

I couldn't quite tell in that scene. It's like, is it supposed to be like the dad has nothing to say or the writer is like, these are good platitudes.

[Laci Mosley]

You know what's interesting? Cause I was actually thinking about that. I'm like, gosh, if our children were getting into trouble, like, I'm not sure that the first thing I would say is just do what you want to do. Which is essentially what the dad says. Like, do you like, what you want to do is great? Don't worry about your older brother. Do you? And it's like, well, I don't know. You know, I think that he is doing him and it's not working out.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think that I felt like.

[Paul Scheer]

But what is even him? Like, what is like, what is him? What is like, I don't know what his goal is. His goal is like, he stopped a crime, the gang is mad, they wreck his bike. And that's really.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then, and then he likes the girl.

[Paul Scheer]

And he likes the girl. And then he gets them arrested by stealing a car and then making them steal it from him. Like he, he thought that process out but he really doesn't do, like. He just kind of agitates the gang. He doesn't do anything with a larger worldview. At one point, the principal's like, and you played those concerts on the roof. He's in multiple scenes with musical.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

For sure. When that principal said that, I thought, for sure, inside of this movie, we were gonna get a concert on the roof.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way.

[Laci Mosley]

No, we didn't. We did get a concert in the, you know, country club. And that's What. If I were his dad, I would say, like, let's get you into music lessons.

[Paul Scheer]

But by the way, let's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Which. Because, you know, in this movie, every single location has a live band playing. Whether it's lunch at a Tony country club or a warehouse party, every place has a full band.

[Paul Scheer]

And he never gets up to play. But yet, when he does play, this is not the song that you think of somebody saying, oh, you got up on the roof I feel the thunder.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I feel the pain I know the struggles you keep the nights in the.

[Paul Scheer]

Rain.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I feel your face I hear your eyes I know the nights that.

[Laci Mosley]

You cry but still he's crazy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We survive I don't believe this. I walk the night I walk the.

[Paul Scheer]

Night well, my darling Would you care to dance?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Fighting the darkness that breaks our heart.

[Paul Scheer]

We hold each other tight yeah. He sings, like, this Neil diamond song. It's like, that doesn't seem like the rock. You're mad that this kid likes Neil Diamond? Like, he doesn't seem to be, like, a tough dude. Like, what's wrong? What's wrong with this kid?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I agree. You said it earlier, but I also wrote it in my notes, too, Paul, which is. There are elements of this that I was like, I had to look it up. This came out the year before Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And there are real Ferris Bueller moments, like the in the bed thing. And then also. So this, like, let's break into the country club, pretend like we belong, and then let's get on stage and perform is kind of like taking over the parade float and kind of making everybody look at you, you know? And I felt like this was that. But that he chooses to sing a ballad, like a piano ballad was so. And the crowd just completely goes along with it. Like the Richie Rich country club people.

[Laci Mosley]

The Richie Riches I love so much. Because, you know, it seems like in the 80s, the only thing you needed to do as either a costume designer or as an actual rich person was just take a sweater, drape it over your shoulders, and then tie it in a knot right at your chest.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, that was my outfit. That was the way that my mom dressed me 90% of the time.

[Laci Mosley]

Okay. A couple follow up questions, though, Paul.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, pictures.

[Laci Mosley]

You had to be pictures. Are there old enough? Like, at what age? Because at a certain age you were. Should have been dressing yourself.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, was your mom dressing you like that in high school? Oh, no, no, no. Literally, no, no, no, no.

[Paul Scheer]

When I was a kid. When I was a kid. But I will say that my mom.

[Laci Mosley]

Power drape.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yeah. Like, my mom also used to dress my stepdad up like that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is there a picture available? Like, currently?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, I can get you a picture right here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because that's so. That's a wild reality. If you're like a little. A little businessman, a little weekend businessman.

[Laci Mosley]

It's also like, you're a kid. Like, how do you use your arms and play and climb and do things?

[Paul Scheer]

My mom, we were not of that ilk. We were not of the James Spader Connecticut ilk, But we definitely tried to dress that way. I mean, we definitely tried to dress that way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That is.

[Laci Mosley]

I mean, your mom to this day rocks a, you know, a sweater over a T shirt or oxford, white button down.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I have no problem with that.

[Laci Mosley]

I know you don't, Jason, but always throws a nice little sweater over it.

[Paul Scheer]

So this is a little sampling, a little flavor of all of my looks. Okay, so this is number one. This is kind of.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, that's pretty good.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, that's, you know, that's like a, you know.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, that's good.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's good. All right, so I mean, it's not quite country club good, but it's good all by hand.

[Paul Scheer]

No, it's just a button at the collar. White button, shirt to the collar with a V neck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Very also very patriotic. Red, white and blue.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, that's a little. Again, like a little turtleneck. White turtleneck again. Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I only wish you were wearing a little blazer. All right, and then, listeners, these are really delightful. And then there's you frenching your mom.

[Paul Scheer]

There you go.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, baby.

[Paul Scheer]

There it is.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's a tie. It's a tie with a sweater draped over it. So it's not even a casual look because the tie dresses it up.

[Laci Mosley]

Now, where were you going?

[Paul Scheer]

I think I was maybe going to school. I'm not positive.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, there you go. That's me in my audition for Tough Turf.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I also love. There's so much in this picture that I'm obsessed with the lines in the rug, which I needed.

[Paul Scheer]

Which I needed to do. I had to essentially vacuum the rug as if I was hoeing a field, like, up one side, down the other.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Totally. I remember that's it. Like mowing the lawn. It was the same. Yeah, I remember because I used to also do the vacuuming, so of course I noticed that. And then the table, this whole picture, this is incredible stuff.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, do you like the empty wine rack that I'm next to?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Empty?

[Paul Scheer]

Exactly. Completely empty wine rack and a wall with nothing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Nothing on it. And the outlet cover is a different white than the wall color.

[Laci Mosley]

White, yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, there we go.

[Laci Mosley]

It's also like, the table is pretty far away from both the chair and the outlet.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm obsessed with this picture.

[Laci Mosley]

You look so cute. I can't honestly.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The sweater draped over the shoulders is some next level stuff.

[Paul Scheer]

Y. Uh, you know, here's another. Here's another. You know, this is another shot of me, you know, in my little Lacoste. I mean, look, I'm always. I'm. I'm a kid who's wearing a tie and a white sweater a lot. I'm wearing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I will say this too, though. Your mom's blouse. I'm assuming that's your mom.

[Laci Mosley]

Yes, yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Your mom's blouse in this picture is really the focus. This is. This is gangbusters. This is ruffles on. Ruffles on, ruffles on sleeves. And then I think also like a princess sleeve.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, that's a puffed. That's a puffed sleeve. Like Anne from Anne of Green Gables.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, there's some good shots.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

These are great.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. So that. That is some tough turf. Looks for sheer.

[Laci Mosley]

You know, going back to what we were saying about Spader, you know, I couldn't quite get to the bottom of why nobody pressed charges after Spader's father was shot.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, James Spader, literally, like, I understand, like, we're not talking about an acting choice. He is truly unmoved by his father being shot taking multiple times.

[Laci Mosley]

I found that scene to be pretty brutal. I mean, this was the weird thing overall about the movie for me. There was it. To me, it vacillated between being like, oh, this is like a high school movie, you know, very similar to Grease and like this sort of class struggle and, you know, people from the wrong side of the tracks mixing up with these Richie Riches and all of that. And then there's music and there's these fun elements, and then there's Some brutal violence that really.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Surprise.

[Laci Mosley]

Really escalates to the point where it's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like in like a. In a Saturday Night Fever way.

[Laci Mosley]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, with radical violence. You know, like, you know, at one point, Nick is gonna, like, kill Kim Richards. You know, like, there's really. The stakes are jump from high school. You're right. High school level stuff. You know, switchblades and. And.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Fist fights to, like, true family massacres.

[Laci Mosley]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

To like. Yes. Killing people. Like, murder in a way that like. Like, I don't understand why Nick is even able to be in the rest of the movie. He should be arrested immediately, by the way.

[Paul Scheer]

He stole a car and he gets out, like, the next day. Like, he basically. You know, and I guess maybe you can get out if you post bail. But it didn't seem like they had a lot of. I don't know what's going on there, because Kim Richards dad. I mean, that whole scene was really upsetting. He gets out of jail, and then basically they come in to just reveal, like, we're married. Frankie, get out of here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now do you see why you have to go?

[Paul Scheer]

I'm coming.

[Laci Mosley]

Come to my house for dinner tomorrow night. No way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Hey, Frankie, forget it, all right? Come on. I'm coming.

[Paul Scheer]

I'll be there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just read it. Read it.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, go, Morgan, inside.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Go. Get out of here. I'm coming. God. What are you doing in here?

[Paul Scheer]

Nothing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Can't a girl have any privacy around here?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, but not when we want to celebrate. Celebrate.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's right. It's not every night. I could ask for my baby's hand and open that. What?

[Paul Scheer]

Yep.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Can you believe this? And he said, yes. I'm so happy, sweetheart.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, what surprise.

[Laci Mosley]

Like, that was very upsetting when she said, I'm not gonna go to school. I'll just get married.

[Paul Scheer]

I felt this movie has dark. Like, there's a lot of dark stuff. And compared to what Jason said earlier, when a movie opens up with this montage of fun 80s high school, where it's like, hey, you know, all the groups, the weird walking kids. Oh, the big boombox people, because they all had heightening of big boomboxes, the break dancers. And it's like, oh, you know, the Snap bracelet girls. It's like. Like we're building on this kind of fun high school. And then the next thing is, like, these tough girls talking about dicks and people getting stabbed. Like, there are some. Like there are some turn. Like I said, this movie is like that heightened quick. Like we did we get out of the fun High school immediately.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, it really is like, you know, like these kids are dealing with not just the machinations of high school itself, because you almost never see them in class or doing any of that. What you are seeing is them engaging in life or death battles. Like, like the locker room scene, I mentioned it earlier, where all of the bad guys, the bully guys, load up towels full of combination lockers, or locks.

[Laci Mosley]

Rather keys, all sorts of different items.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Spader was so savage and brutal that I was like, he would not survive this. These would break his skull.

[Paul Scheer]

But James Spader also, and this is what was upsetting about the movie. Yes, I understand at the end, spoiler alert, he doesn't save the day. He just escapes with his life and accidentally kind of kills the other guy. I was waiting for him to go like, full Hulk. Like I wanted him to be like, now you've pissed me off. But like, people just whip out guns in this movie. Like, guns are out. Like, there are a lot of just like. But he never does anything clever or cool. And you, I don't feel like triumphant that he kills this kid. Like you want to just see him beat their asses, but every time he gets like one step ahead, he gets caught and just beat down.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, it's really like the movie is very bifurcated in that sense because it is like up tempo new wave dance. This is a dance scene. We're gonna, we're gonna have an R B band. They're gonna dance and be together. And then juxtaposed with like savage fight. Brutal, like brutal fight that ends up with his dad getting shot. Cut to teenagers having sex, you know, and you're like, oh, wait a minute, what is, what is the. I, I don't know if this is a teen movie or if this is like the warriors, you know, but then.

[Paul Scheer]

I also thought, then this is where I'm gonna also just be very honest and say I also had a couple thoughts where like, man, the 80s must have been fun as hell. Because when you look at these people dancing, it's like, you look at, you got rich kids, you got punks, you got break dancers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, every one of those scenes were like true representations of the 80s documentary. So you're saying they nailed that part.

[Laci Mosley]

You liked that everyone was standing dancing. I just like young, rich, poor.

[Paul Scheer]

I just like. It sort of like dancing brought everybody together. Like, they all like the same kind of music. But also it was sort of like, hey, you dress like that. You dress like that. Because some people are dancing like a court. Like they've like, it was almost like 80s line dancing.

[Laci Mosley]

I. I don't think that there was that kind of group community dance, I don't think.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, you also did. They seem to live in a world in which where whatever location they arrive at, there's a band playing and everyone's dancing. It doesn't matter what age bracket. It doesn't matter. Like, when they are. When they go to the country club, which is full of old people, there's still a band, a new wave band playing Twist and Shout.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And everybody's up dancing during lunch at, like, the Beverly Hills Country Club.

[Laci Mosley]

So was it a weekend? I don't know. But so. Oh, God, I was so upset when they're getting. When Spader's kind of prepping everybody to go into the country club and giving them, like, makeshift, you know, makeovers to get.

[Paul Scheer]

Paul makeovers.

[Laci Mosley]

Preppy. Yeah. I was so upset to see Kim Richards take that mane and, like, tie it on itself multiple times. Like, she took her hair and made a ponytail. Like, it was so distressing to me. I still. I don't know that we spent enough time on that hair. Like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, the hair is like, it was an actual character. Yes, it is. It has. It has. It's making choices. The hair is making acting choices.

[Laci Mosley]

Honestly, it was.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, it's a very malignant kind of hairstyle. Like, you wouldn't surprise me if she had a.

[Laci Mosley]

This. I'll give her hair this. It is so long that, I mean, usually, like, when someone's hair is that long, I would say about a foot of it is split ends at the bottom. But it did look pretty healthy.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I'm gonna. I'm gonna say I'm just gonna, like, open this up for everybody. If you want to imagine how long her hair is, I'm looking at a picture of right now. It is obviously from her head past her.

[Laci Mosley]

It's the kind of hair that starts at her head.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's good.

[Paul Scheer]

Good to know as someone without a lot of hair. I gotta start there. And it goes past her waist. It is like. It is almost down to, like, I'm looking at it here. I would say if you put your thumb and forefinger, like, if you put your thumb on your belt.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What is your belt?

[Paul Scheer]

They would be about that thin.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

If you put your thumb on your belt and then.

[Paul Scheer]

And then dropped your forefinger down.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What? And dropped your finger down, like.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, just dropped your finger down. That's how long the hair is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You put your thumb. Okay, you put. Put your thumb on your belt. You Drop your finger down. That's how long her hair is.

[Laci Mosley]

Here's the thing too. The reason why.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know the classic measurement of thumb in belt? Finger down. Yes. Go ahead.

[Paul Scheer]

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[Laci Mosley]

So here's what's also so crazy about the hair. So at one point I'm looking at hair and I'm like, if she didn't have bangs and also if she wasn't wearing the hair in a way so that the top also went up. Like she has about like 2 inches going up. Would it look as long? You know, because that's the other piece of it is that. Yes, it's really long hair. It's also crimped. But then there's also this other hair around her face that's big.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's like a. It's a different framing device. Yeah, exactly. It's not like cascading on either side. Split in the middle. I parted in the middle or something like framing her face. There are wispy bangs going down. This is a classic 80s whiskey. Bangs going down, wispy bangs going up, up going up. We're looking at a picture still from the movie behind Paul. And both of the women in the picture have that, you know, claw going. Claw of hair going down, claw of hair going.

[Laci Mosley]

Which, by the way, I did. I did that as afraid. And I was like, this looks fucking great. Like, I've never looked better.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, another reason why I like this movie, and I think it was shocking to me. But when we are looking at these women, like, not only do they look good, I mean, these are tough girls, but they're also just eating hamburgers. I haven't seen a girl in a movie like, eat it, like, just go to town on hamburgers. And Kim Richards, like, shoves that hamburger in her face. I don't know, like this scene, like, just seeing girls, it's like eating burgers. Like there's like there. I don't know why, like, it seems so Foreign to me. I'm like, I don't see that in movies. Don't see this, like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, like, all the way to, like. I loved all of the outfits in this movie. It, like, this was. This movie was, I think, one of the best versions of, like, 80s style that we've watched. You know, like, some of the other ones that we've recently done, like Attack of the Rock, Aliens, or whatever, they really go for it.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, in a way. And these felt, like, subtle.

[Laci Mosley]

This was very.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This felt like me in high school or junior high in high school. This felt like. These felt like ordinary 80s clothes, you know, I mean, even though they're, I.

[Paul Scheer]

Think, crazy, I think they're trying to show that they are less well off. Off, right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I think so too.

[Paul Scheer]

You know, I think a lot of the 80s stuff that we see, it's like, oh, these are not rich kids, but they are, like, they have a little bit more money. I mean, this is supposed to be the poor side of town.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Laci Mosley]

I'm not gonna lie. At one point, early on in the movie is actually before I realized it was Kim Richards, I thought she had a face tattoo. I thought that that thing, the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The thing on her headband, so close to her face, and it was so thin. Yeah. It was such a thin headband that she's wearing early on. I. I could see that. Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I wanted to ask you about this, too, like, about their wealth, because I think that they are trying to make a statement about class in here as well. But there is, like, this idea where it's like, are they that poor that Robert Downey Jr. Needs to save that loaf of bread that he puts down his pants? Like, because at one point, Robert Downey Jr. Puts a giant baguette down his pants, and then the. The country club representative, who is very suspicious of them, pulls it out and then places it back down on the buffet table.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Back on the buffet. Whoa.

[Paul Scheer]

That really got me. But I'm also like, is he still.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Meanwhile, one of the other girls, not the. Not Kim Riches, but the other woman in the gang, is just grabbing fistfuls of, like, buffet material, like, shrimp and whatever, and, like, putting them in her purse. It is very funny.

[Laci Mosley]

I mean, it's. I think your point, though, Paul, is like, well, can they not afford food?

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Laci Mosley]

You know, and.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I think they're just doing what they can. They're just making do.

[Laci Mosley]

And I think it's fun to crash a party and steal a bunch of food.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Totally.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah. I mean, you know, my dad used to do that at cocktail parties.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Kim Richard's dad seems to own a convenience store. Her mother has passed away. We find out, obviously, the rest of the gang members are in and out of jail. They seem to be very badly off. Robert Downey Jr. We see where he lives. That's not.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah. I wanted to say one thing about Kim Richards and her mom, because I always find in a lot of these. A lot of teen dramas, like, you see either a boy loses his mom or a girl loses her dad. But it was very nice to see that a. That a girl had lost her mom and to establish, like, that grief, because I don't think it's portrayed often in movies. And. And she is clearly. I mean, this is the thing about the movie. It's so weird because I was like, oh, what an interesting choice to give her that, because to me, it explains so much of her behavior.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Laci Mosley]

You know, smashing the hamburger into her friend's face, being in this, like, totally toxic relationship, but also wanting, like, the safety and security of Morgan. And, like, it was so. It was such a good choice for her, and it made me really care about her, even though I didn't understand why she was so mad at Morgan's mom for just bringing it up.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. I mean, but also, like, I could chalk that up to just, she's a teenager. 80s teen, histrionic.

[Laci Mosley]

She's a teenager. But there are moments like that in this movie where you do. Or at least I found, like, there. There are really interesting, weird choices that are unexpected that I really liked, and then there's just a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, that's the. I was gonna say, like, I think it's. I think this movie does both. This movie is constantly making wild choices or interesting choices, some of which work and make the movie actually quite a bit better than I might have thought it would be. And then some of them are just like head scratchers. Like, whoa, why did you take this this far? Now it's very hard to enjoy the more high school level stakes of the movie. Once I realized people can be shot, you know, like.

[Laci Mosley]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Once I realize, like. Because that's not even at the end of the movie, like, they shoot his dad, like, pretty. At the beginning of, like, at the end of Act 2.

[Laci Mosley]

Well, let me ask you this, though. The choice on James Spader's part, as soon as he, him and Frankie sort of make a connection after the country club, to immediately want to take her not on a date, not to a restaurant, not to, like, get to Know her better. But take her home to his parents.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Laci Mosley]

And sit her down at a family dinner.

[Paul Scheer]

That's straight up Rebel Without a Cause, by the way. Like, that is. That is.

[Laci Mosley]

You're right.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, this movie has so many, like, legit parallel scenes, so I don't think that there was any reason for it. But in Rebel Without a Cause, maybe it makes more sense here. It doesn't.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, it doesn't. And it also especially doesn't because he has such an already established antagonistic relationship with those parents, you know, so, you know, he. He never wants to be home. So why is he. You know what I mean? Like, why? But I think you're right. They are just. This movie is full of references to other. Other things.

[Paul Scheer]

But it's also like, here's the thing that's so weird. Rebel Without a Cause. There is a class difference. There is no class difference between.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right.

[Paul Scheer]

You know, between any of these characters. They all seem to be roughly in the same thing, except for Robert Downey's character, who his brother, like, has Dobermans and runs a repair shop. I mean, when Robert Downey Jr. When Robert Downey Jr. Comes in to save the day with two rogue Dobermans, like, he's like, crazy. I'm here to help you.

[Laci Mosley]

My favorite part of the movie, I.

[Paul Scheer]

Mean, it was amazing. And releases Dobermans upon the bad guys to, like, bite their arms.

[Laci Mosley]

I just wish the Dobermans had been introduced earlier and more effectively because I would have been. I would have been like, on my feet screaming. Like, I was so excited to see them come in, even without having any setup or connection.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah, the fact that he arrives and is like, hey. And like. And it's like, here's backup and two dogs.

[Paul Scheer]

Great.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I loved it. But I agree, like, I would have loved it more if those. If that had been established better, if that. If there had been a little bit more legwork to that also. So if you're spader, like, you are fine to get those guys arrested when you can frame them for stealing a car, but you know, they're gonna be at the warehouse, whatever o'clock. Why not send the police there to arrest them? People who shot your father, who. Who attempted to murder your father. Like, I don't. I can't figure that out. By the way, the dad. The dad kicked some serious ass.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh. I mean, the dad proud of the dad.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, the dad was great. The dad knew that dad. I have a lot of respect for that dad. I know. I made fun of his platitudes. And I know I'm gonna slam him in just a second, but that guy was studying real estate driving. Cause here's my issue. This guy, he's what, he's trying to drive a cab or is he trying to read the newspaper? Because when we see him, he's got the newspaper laid out like he's in New York City reading it on the hood of the cab in the middle of the night. Like, oh, like do some work. This is not an uber world. Like, first of all, don't take the night shifts, you know, start yet.

[Laci Mosley]

I think there is something for doors to close. You don't want to go out there or, you know, the day shift workers might still be on. Like, you don't want to grab someone else's fare.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You also don't want to waste gas.

[Paul Scheer]

You know, I guess, I mean, idling just to open up that then nothing tells me more I'm unavailable than opening up a newspaper on the hood of the vehicle that you are using to perform your business.

[Laci Mosley]

I also had a great amount of respect for the dad. I thought, you know, what he was. I don't know what happened with that business. I really don't. But he is trying to make some money.

[Paul Scheer]

And why does the brother not help more? It seems that the brother is doing well.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, why not? Why doesn't the brother like take some money from his shoulder sweater budget and give it to the folks?

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, I did like the two brothers at each other because it was like just a lot of white. It was like, I'll have a yellow shirt on with a white top. I'll have a white top on with a yellow shirt. It was just a.

[Laci Mosley]

So many pastels on rich people in the 80s.

[Paul Scheer]

And by the way, the principal was a great character that they really set up. And then he never came back to do a guy really.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The movie couldn't decide whether it wanted to occur during high school or not. And they kept like really struggling with that in a way that it was a bummer. I really. Because I mean, for the most part, this high school gang, Nick and the bad guys, they seem to really mostly be concerned with beating up dad. They beat up and shoot. James Vader said then in a rage, this guy gives such a good rage filled performance. He goes into Kim Richards father's corner store and basically body slams the old man. And Kim Richards, he basically goes in there and like WWE's the whole place. It's really nuts.

[Laci Mosley]

Okay, so, so. And this is again like the movie like steps over these lines because you think, oh, yeah, he's just, he's like a high school bully, you know, gang leader. And then you're like, oh, no, he's a psychopath killer who has, who is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

A, who is a grown man. Yeah, that's the thing that happens when you cast people who are actually adults to play high school students. When they start doing the violence at the level of adults, you're like, like the dissonance between, wait, I thought these were kids. And you're like, oh, no, this is a 27 year old man suplexing an elderly gender.

[Paul Scheer]

And I will say he picks Kim.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Richards up and throws her to the ground.

[Laci Mosley]

And I was like, very upset.

[Paul Scheer]

It was very upsetting. And you know what it was about that movie too is like the stunts. I mean, there's one or two bigger stunts, like when the billboard falls on somebody and then when the main bad guy falls off the ledge. But for the most part, it felt to me like the violence was painful. Like, it wasn't like a movie violence where it's like, oh, I'm falling off the Sears Tower. It's more like I just fell 8ft, but I fucked up my neck. Like my collarbone is broken. The damage felt weird. And then the movie ends with like, you feel dirty, like people were hurt. And then cut to, well, not hurt.

[Laci Mosley]

Paula, I think I wanna know how many casualties there were in that warehouse because I know Nick is dead.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Nick appears to be dead.

[Paul Scheer]

Robert Downey Jr. Got shot in that part of your leg where it's like, if you get shot there, you can bleed out. I mean, he's wearing a helmet.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He definitely was shot in his femoral artery. And you can see he's like, he basically has bled out. And the dog comes up and like, seems to bring him like something to tie a tourniquet with.

[Laci Mosley]

That's what it looks like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I couldn't figure that out. I was like, is the dog helping? Are these dogs medical professionals?

[Laci Mosley]

Those dogs were incredible and saved the day. You know, I mean, by the way.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm mad about this movie. Why can't, why can't James Spader save the day? Like, I want him.

[Laci Mosley]

It was more triumphant to have those two Dobermans appear. And I, I felt like a swelling in my heart when they came in and I, I was so excited to see them do their thing. And I didn't feel that at all.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, I will say, don't you feel that Dobermans are such an 80s scary dog? Like, like we don't hear that much about Dobermans being attacking anyone anymore. Like, but like, in the 80s, it's like, oh, God, they got Dobermans Doberman.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Terrifying Zeus and Apollo on Magnum PI that's right.

[Laci Mosley]

The neighbors there across the street from us had a Doberman. And they would have him on, like, this very long chain.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[Laci Mosley]

And from the house, but the chain, the way it worked, like, he. If you started to walk down the sidewalk, he would start racing toward you and, like, just stop right before he got you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, God.

[Laci Mosley]

It was absolutely terrifying.

[Paul Scheer]

I do want to talk about, like, some other terrifying things here. And I know we mentioned it before. Could we just go back to Robert Downey Jr. Chasing James Spader with the car. We don't know It's Robert Downey Jr. But James Spader is, like, waiting on a bus stop. He's having like, a very, like, music video moment where he's like, grabbing like, a stanchion of like, a bus sign. He's like, ugh, I'm so conflicted. Sitting, moping. But it's like, very much like music should be playing under it. Like the music Voyager, the rock aliens music, which I'm always up for and by the way, just came out in Vinegar Syndrome as a pristine dvd, which I bought. But then this car, like, one of the bad guys cars, spots him and starts chasing him. And James Fader's running and he's throwing at it in the core. The car is, like, bashing him into a corner and James Fader's about to jump over like, a barbed wire fence. And he can't get up, and he's going to get, you know, hurt. And then, like, Robert Downey Jr. Pops out. He's like, gotcha. I was like, that's not good, man.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. I will say this. This. This kind of speaks to what we were talking about earlier in this way that, like, Spader, and I'm certain he's young when he made this, you know, he's a. You know, he's. He's young in the movie. He's playing a high school person. Spader, to me, doesn't appear to ever be a character who has parents or who has a family or who feels tethered to anything. He is, like, in everything, like an individual only, right? So much so that in the scene where he and Kim Richards, right before they have sex, she is talking about. All she keeps hearing is the sound of the gun going off and the shooting and the gun and the blah, blah, blah. And she gets to have this whole breakdown where she's reacting to the gun violence that she witnessed and was a part of. And he never is like, that was my father that was shot. Like, he has.

[Laci Mosley]

He's not experiencing much more connected to his shot.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She is having a complete emotional arc based on the events that led to and were a part of his father's shooting. And he is completely disconnected. Not uninterested, but he's really unaffected in a weird way.

[Laci Mosley]

It's very strange.

[Paul Scheer]

It's a weird. But I think that there's a plot. I mean, God knows where it was cut out because the movie is almost two hours. Like, there needed to be something else here. Like, did the dad do something? Like, it's like. Like, I could understand that the dad gambled their money away, did something where he lost respect for his parents. But you don't even get that. You don't get anything. The dad just looks like a. Like a lumpy mess of a guy until he gets, you know, fighting out.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's like a Harry Dean Stanton scene.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, I want Harry Dan Stanton.

[Laci Mosley]

Paul, you seem to be, like, so back and forth on the dad. Like, one minute you're proud of him, and then the next.

[Paul Scheer]

I know, I know. I'm very conflicted about this dad, because I do feel like. I just. I guess what I'm saying is the dad looks beaten down, and I'm like, God. And he can't even get the love of his son. It would only make sense if the dad brought it upon himself, I guess. And that's what I'm trying to. Like, I'm feeling I'm missing one part of it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, the son. What's crazy is Spader feels no guilt.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The scene where Kim Richards is, like, she feels guilt for being part of this shooting. Shooting. He. Spader feels nothing. Even though it's his relationship with Kim and his continuous antagonizing of the gang that has caused the gang to get revenge on him. You know what I mean? Like that it's. He is. He is into. His father was assaulted and shot because of Spader's actions. You know, I mean, not. Spader didn't know that they would take it this far.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, but, I mean, but he keeps on. He keeps on antagonizing them, and there's no reason for it. Like, there's just no reason.

[Laci Mosley]

Why do you think he's antagonizing them?

[Paul Scheer]

Because they wrecked his bike?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I think. Yes. I. But I think he starts antagonizing them just because I think he's a. I think he sees them trying to rob that guy. And I think he thinks. I think he knows they are, in that moment, bullies or very upset with.

[Laci Mosley]

Him now because he is going after Frankie.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, no, but it's kind of a threefold thing, Right. It's like it starts off where he foils their robbery, then the next day.

[Laci Mosley]

They'Re going to make roughly $3, right?

[Paul Scheer]

So they foil the $3 robbery, then they get his bike and destroy it. So now he's mad. So then he steals a car and concocts a pretty elaborate scenario where then he gets them to take his car as a collateral. And then.

[Laci Mosley]

I didn't think. I thought he came up with that kind of in the money moment.

[Paul Scheer]

No. When he saw the car on the side of the road, he was like, got it. Like that. And they went in there today. He went in there to dance with Kim to get them that mad. So they would steal the car.

[Laci Mosley]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So that he could then get him arrested.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Laci Mosley]

Okay.

[Paul Scheer]

So then they get arrested, and then the next morning, he finds a dead rat in his locker. And he's like, a squirrel. Oh, maybe it's a squirrel. Dead something. It was pretty. And that was also very.

[Laci Mosley]

That was another moment of, like, the violence is too much for what the movie is.

[Paul Scheer]

And then I think the next moment is the guy gets out of jail, sees him with his girl, and now he's like, now we're gonna go beat him up in the gym. And I just wanna call one thing about that gym. And as someone who's been to many a gym and seen lockers, I really appreciated that the lockers. There were drawers. I thought drawers is such a better way to do a locker.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Interesting.

[Paul Scheer]

Instead of a long locker. I like the drawer idea. Yeah. I thought that was an interesting way of doing things.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Anyway, I think you need a long locker so that you can hang a towel inside.

[Laci Mosley]

Well, why are you hanging a towel?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, this is in high school. In high school, you needed to have a towel in your locker so that you could. When you had to take a shower.

[Paul Scheer]

Wait, wait, but you. Okay, first of all, you took a shower in high school. Like, I mean, like, you were.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You had to.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, I never did.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They made you after gym. After gym class, they made you take a shower.

[Laci Mosley]

We went back dirty.

[Paul Scheer]

Dirty.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah, we did, too. Our showers never really worked, but I was like, I would never have.

[Paul Scheer]

I would never take off my shower.

[Laci Mosley]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Paul Scheer]

Wait. But so you're. You're like. So you keep a towel in your locker, and then like, next week, when you go back to gym, it's like, that towel has dried out.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That towel is dry.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, you don't throw it into a general wash. Wow.

[Laci Mosley]

That I'm also.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And it's a towel you bring from home.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Laci Mosley]

Yeah. But then that you. You're putting a wet towel back into a tiny area. Like, that can't be great either.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, no, no, no. I'm sure it's bad.

[Laci Mosley]

It's very bad.

[Paul Scheer]

So.

[Laci Mosley]

But here's my thing. Like, because I've thought about this before. When I go to a spa, the robe is always hanging up, but then I have to.

[Paul Scheer]

You're wearing it?

[Laci Mosley]

Well, yeah. I put the robe on, but I take off my clothes and put them in the locker, but I always end up just folding them and trying to put them down. There's nothing to hang is what I. I see. And so it seems like. Like I've had that thought before.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

A drawer would make sense.

[Paul Scheer]

I like a drawer.

[Laci Mosley]

I mean, I never even, like, thought of a drawer, but I'm kind of like. Yeah, because it's so much extra space now. I just stayed at a hotel in Williamsburg, and. Very deep closet. No drawers. Not a single one.

[Paul Scheer]

I hate that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I'm gonna make a controversial statement. I never use drawers.

[Paul Scheer]

What?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What? When I go to a hotel, when I. If I unpack, I. I unpack onto, like, a shelf or. I want to be able to see what I have.

[Paul Scheer]

But don't you. Aren't you afraid of, like, the housekeeping coming in and looking at your. Your undies?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No.

[Laci Mosley]

You should be, because I went on.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You think they're looking at my undies?

[Laci Mosley]

Yes, I think they're looking at me on the undies. I went on a carnival cruise when I was in high school.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[Laci Mosley]

And in the middle of dinner, I went back to the room to grab something, and I walked in, and there was a gentleman holding my underwear.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What?

[Paul Scheer]

What?

[Laci Mosley]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

Wait. I don't know if I've heard this story.

[Laci Mosley]

Yep.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What are you talking. And what transpired?

[Laci Mosley]

I closed the door, and I walked out.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, wow. And did you tell your parents or did you do anything?

[Laci Mosley]

I never spoke about it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Did you ever see that gentleman again?

[Laci Mosley]

I don't think so, but I was so.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Did you ever see that underwear again?

[Laci Mosley]

No. I remember. I was like. Cause I remember what it looked like, and I. I don't know what I did with it. I must. I think I, like, put it in my suitcase or something. But I also, like, I. I did have to wear the rest of my underwear and couldn't explain to my parents, like, I know someone, because I was too. I, of course, was embarrassed and didn't want to tell my parents that someone was holding my underwear. I mean, that is crazy. That's why Paul brings up a good point, like, to have them out and about. You are kind of asking for it, Jason.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I guess I'm asking for somebody to just, you know, peep through my.

[Laci Mosley]

Why don't you keep them in drawers? I'm so confounded.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think the drawers are dirty.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think people are putting dirty clothes in those drawers, and nobody ever washes the drawers.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, of course they're not gonna wash the drawer, but, yeah, I hear what you're saying.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think people use, like, hotel drawers as hampers, and they put their dirty clothes in them.

[Laci Mosley]

I do you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So I don't want to put my clean. So I don't know which one you. You were using as a hamper, and I'll never tell. So it's like. It's the same as, like, a. Like, the seat. The. The pocket in the seat on the airplane in front of you. The back pocket where you put people. You know, I can't. I don't know. Somebody probably just had a dirty diaper in there. Now I'm like, I'm gonna put my phone and my book in there, and then, like, give. Get. Like, that's the dirtiest place in the world. Like, it's a dark drawer that's full of potentially bacteria that I'm, like, not gonna throw my clean clothes in.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now I'm so upset about everything.

[Laci Mosley]

I can't take that on. I'll bring a Lysol wipe. And I gotta put stuff in drawers. I'm sorry.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I also will frequently. I also will frequently just live out of my suitcase.

[Laci Mosley]

See the honest settling. Sometimes I do, but often I like to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I know. I understand.

[Paul Scheer]

The minute I get into a room, I like to fully unpack so I can feel like I am in the next. I'm in the zone now. Like, I'm in this place. But I hear what you're saying. I don't disagree.

[Laci Mosley]

We're going on tour. Paul, will you. Do you think you'll unpack in every city?

[Paul Scheer]

No, definitely not, because that's too short. We're going. I mean, we're. We're popping. I mean, this tour is intense. Yeah. This is like. I. I don't. I barely want to move anything. I almost want to pick an outfit for the live show that I get into. Right before the live show and get out of after the live show and just recycle that out.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ready? Because it's going to be I how we end ended up with this, I do not know. We in the middle of August, we are going to Texas and Louisiana. Oh my God, 100 degrees with 200 humidity. It's going to be disgusting.

[Paul Scheer]

I remember being in Louisiana shooting a movie down there and it was like May 2nd. They're like, oh, you better get out because by the time it gets to the fifth, it's oppressive. And I was like. And it was, it was awful. And I think that, yeah, I think the locals all leave. I think everyone leaves.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. And we're like, we're coming to your town.

[Paul Scheer]

Coming. Nola. Welcome us with open arms. That's why we need some of that. Detroit Energy, Indianapolis Energy. And by the way, I know that we've announced at the top of the show, but we do have a live virtual show coming up. So if you can't make the tour, that is at the just go to the moment house.com hdtgm if you can't remember that, just go to hdtgm.com and we'll announce the movie and it'll be a live show. So everyone in London and stuff. I know we were talking a lot about this movie. I want to bring up something from last week's movie. I'll bring that up at the end. But I think it might now be time for second opinions. What's up, jerks? I need a second. I need a second opinion about that. You're giving me giving the villainy holes in the story. You thought that this was your moment of glory. You thought that this was prestige. You thought we wouldn't be laughing at days hatings prosthetics and wigs. I mean, what's it directed by kids?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, what's that about?

[Paul Scheer]

But I think you did.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, maybe it wasn't for me.

[Paul Scheer]

Maybe a few other people agree. Maybe the Internet loved it. Let's see. Paul. All right, so thank you for that amazing second opinion theme. Here's the deal, people. Tough Turf has 78% of five star reviews. I mean, that's a, that's a pretty high volume. And I have to say if I'm not surprised. Yeah, I'm not surprised. Only 4% are one star. And and there are a lot of Marvel Avenger fans here because of the Easter egg in this movie, which is there's graffiti on one of the walls that says the New Avengers and Robert Downey Jr. Stands in front of it and people think that that's odd.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I didn't realize.

[Paul Scheer]

And obviously James Spader played Ultron. So this is a prequel to Avengers. Here we are. Isn't that interesting?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like those two guys have been working together in some capacity.

[Laci Mosley]

Even if it is, that's so amazing and cool.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, this is where they became friends. And then Robert Downey Jr. Named his cat Jimmy in honor of James Spader.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, wow.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, I will say that there are moments like I again, fan of James Spader. Like James Spader, but as a 25 year old man, which is what he is in this movie. There are moments where if I close my eyes, I'm like, this is blacklist. James Spader, like, this is. He delivers some lines just like, like now, James.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Would you guys be surprised to find out that the blacklist is still on?

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, I know, because our good friend Connor Ratliff has been on it and he came on our Twitch show, the one that Hubel and I do, and he told us this. Connor had to have like a parakeet, like in a scene. And the way he described. And you could check it out, it's online. We have it up. The way he describes, like the acting style of James Spader, it's like, seen it all, been there. And the idea was that the parakeet was supposed to go up his arm and land on his big bald head. And he was like, okay, clearly this is not working. What we're gonna do is I'm going to place the bird here, we're gonna do one take of it and then we are going to move on. And it was just very.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm not surprised by that.

[Paul Scheer]

Giving the right stuff, but we're not wasting time. Yeah, let's not fuck around. And he basically. Yeah.

[Laci Mosley]

Has the blacklist been on for 15 years? I mean, how long?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think it's been on for something close to that.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, I'm gonna Google it right now.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's like Grey's Anatomy, which also is still on the air at season like 19.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I mean, like that show Supernatural has been on forever as well.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is it still on? I think that's finally done.

[Paul Scheer]

But that was on for. And you look at the. Oh my God. That was on for over a decade. So the Blacklist started in 2013 and it is still on the air.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, okay. Okay. So it's. It's 10 years. It's about 10 years, but that's 10 years.

[Paul Scheer]

Decade. A decade of the blacklist.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I can't Believe that after he was already on Boston Legal for however long.

[Paul Scheer]

That was on, by the way, it's my understanding of the Blacklist that it was about this woman, and they had to bring in a Hannibal Lecter type of character, Red Reddington. That's James Spader. And James Spader was like, the Lecter.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

His name is Red Reddington.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yes. Oh, I favorite thing, Red Reddington. So they bring in Red Reddington to, like, help them solve these bigger crimes because he's like this Hannibal Lecter genius. And then at a certain point, they're like, yeah, we don't care about that girl anymore. Now this show is straight up. James Spader is solving crimes. Like, he's like. He used to be like, we visit him in the jail and he talks to them. Now he's like, out and about running a whole team. Like, the show completely reconfigured around Red Redding. Like, it is wild. That Reddington.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow, that's like. That's a first draft name.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And by the way, they. For their Covid episode, they just did an animated one.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Whoa.

[Paul Scheer]

Really? Yeah, because they're like, oh, we have all. Yeah, they've done some interesting stuff. Like, Connor again walked me through all the Blacklist.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's an episode of Dead Eyes, Connor's podcast, all about all of the times he's auditioned for the Blacklist for all the different parts. He talks about all the different parts he's auditioned for and didn't get, and then talks to all the actors who did get those parts on the Blacklist. So it's a great. The series is incredible.

[Paul Scheer]

And by the way, just so you know, if you can't get enough of the nine seasons of the Blacklist, you can check out their novels. There are Blacklist novels?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, three. Is the Blacklist based on the novels.

[Paul Scheer]

Or went the other way?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So now we can. You can follow Red Reddington's adventures in print.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, boy.

[Laci Mosley]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I know what the rest of my summer is going to be. I'll know what I'll be reading on tour.

[Paul Scheer]

Blacklist. The beekeeper number 59, the ring number 6. I think that he's trying to take down the Blacklist. I. I don't know. But anyway, these are five star reviews and they're not great. I'm going to just be honest. The five star reviews here are. They're just very positive. This one is from Frank Tyre God. Frank Tyre God. Maybe this is Robert Downey's brother who works on cars. Frank Tyre God says early James Spader and Robert Downey. I am old. I remember when this movie was a coming attraction and I actually saw it in a theater. 5 stars. So not really anything about the acting. Just the fact that he remembers it, gives himself five stars in a weird way. This one from Helen Damnation. She writes, james Spader and Robert Downey Jr. Are deliciously hot. And at age 13, I thought Kim Richards must have been the most woman in the world. I think probably the most beautiful woman in the world. I wish I knew why this one wasn't as popular as the other 80s films. But I enjoy introducing it to people. 5 stars. We walk the night.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Great, great music drops in this, like, there is so many good songs that are never.

[Paul Scheer]

The soundtrack is great that I'd either.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Never heard or was like, what is this?

[Paul Scheer]

And then this one I really like from Mike H. Great film. And I still watch it from time to time. I'm in my mid to late 40s. Hate to say it, but it reminds me a lot of my own high school upbringing. Five stars.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

True words. True words. I felt the same, you know, and then.

[Paul Scheer]

And then this one, which I just like, because why not? From. From Scott Spinage. The turf is tough. Yeah. Okay.

[Laci Mosley]

Any relationships with Red Runnington?

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, I don't know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Maybe Scotty spins. You know, Scotty spins.

[Paul Scheer]

This one is maybe just one visually that I like, because this is. The turf is tough. T O U G h, I'm sorry. I mean, tough T U F F.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, that's the whole five stars. Amazing. But anyway, the name Tough Turf, I.

[Laci Mosley]

Mean, it's when I had to, like, search for it on Amazon, by the way. I woke up, Jason, just so you know, at 4:50 in the morning to watch this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What are you talking about?

[Laci Mosley]

Put in. I had to fly back from New York yesterday. And I was like, Paul was watching it last night and I was on a different time. I was like, I can't stay away.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God.

[Laci Mosley]

Last night I'm just gonna wake up early. So it was really wild to, like, get up and, like, get coffee and sit and, like, drink water because I'm so dehydrated and watch this movie. But I was searching for, like, two hours. For two hours. It was so my children woke up and I was like, you can't watch this with me. Like, go on your iPads. But I had to at like 4:50 search for tough turf. And I knew it in my head, but I couldn't find my phone or anything to look at how that was spelled.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Laci Mosley]

And it's such a wild name to search for because it's not exactly what you think it is.

[Paul Scheer]

It's a little. It's felt in the. By the way, I'm finding more blacklist facts as we're talking here. There are 10 issues of a comic series of the blacklist. It is produced novels, comics, TV shows, podcasts. I bet you there has to be a blacklist.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm sure there is. I'm surprised there hasn't been a blacklist spinoff, or maybe they've tried and it just didn't work. I don't know.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, there's so many blacklist podcasts. Believe in the blacklist. A blacklist podcast. The blacklist.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, this is like a. A sanctioned.

[Paul Scheer]

No, no, there. There are. There are sanctions. This is. These are fan ones. And it looks like there is one official one, but they all are pictures of Red Reddington and they are. All. These are not. This is. This is. This is it. And the black.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So many people.

[Paul Scheer]

The blacklist Exposed is the 2017 Academy of Podcasters Award winning TV and film podcast that looks at the world of Red Reddington and all of his criminal enterprises sizes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow. Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my God. And then this one. There's enough. That's. That's the blacklist.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Watching Paul read and discover this information, I listeners, I only wish you could see the. The unadulterated joy in space.

[Paul Scheer]

I just love when there's something like this that is like. Like, you know what it is, is like there whenever there's like a real nerdy culture around something that is like, that is. Is more mainstream. I love it. I'm like, oh, wow. You have like. You don't get this for Chicago Fire. No offense to Chicago Fire. You know, it's like even law and.

[Laci Mosley]

Order can't pull this off.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. The deep. It's. It is really interesting to think about and I'd love to hear from our audience. How many of you are blacklist watchers, right? How many people. How many millions and millions of people must. To have kept it on the air on network TV for this long? It must be massively popular. So to think that I Today, what a. June 30, 2022, heard the name Red Reddington for the first time for other people. They've spent a decade in the trenches with Red Reddington. Just in the trenches.

[Paul Scheer]

They grew up with him.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They listened to the podcast. They grew up. Yeah, they were like, I started watching Red Reddington in high school and now I have a child. I'm in my 20s. You know, like their lives like well, you know, it's shocking.

[Paul Scheer]

We've been doing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

How did this get made longer than the Blacklist?

[Paul Scheer]

Just barely. Just barely. By the way, the Blacklist is getting about 3 million viewers an episode, which in this day and age is pretty.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

High for a show that long in the tooth. It's incredibly high.

[Paul Scheer]

This is what I always think about. And I'm looking at all these lists of TV shows that have been on for a very long time, and there's tremendous. And, you know, and I think about, like, John Francis Daley, great funny guy, great writer who was on that David Boreanas show, Bones, Bones, Bones. And he was the jargon guy. He was the funny lab guy. Like, him and Carla Gallo, like, really fun people. But I'm just thinking about this idea. When you're on a show like Star Trek and you're that character and you gotta put on the six hours of makeup every day.

[Laci Mosley]

Oh, that is amazing.

[Paul Scheer]

And then you're still doing an hour.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Long just to say, like, the warp drive is there.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. There's no easy in, easy out. It's like I'm putting on Klingon makeup and I'm going. I mean, that was the premise of our human giant sketch where my character was like Worf on a show. And I was so upset about it that I got myself. I got surgically implanted into my. My skin. And then the show gets canceled, and then I have to try to find work as an actor with, like, this fucked up, unpainted Klingon face. But. Oh. So this is what I wanted to talk to you about. So we got a great call in the last episode of Last Books of what I saw in Last. This is. This is a.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Keep this in.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, keep this in. That's the episode Last Looks.

[Laci Mosley]

That's what we call ya, Last Looks.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, Last Looks is what the mini episodes are now.

[Paul Scheer]

Got it. So we got a phone call here, and this person brought up something that I did not know. Okay, let's play that.

[Laci Mosley]

Hi, Paul, this is Lauren from San Francisco.

[Paul Scheer]

I have an admission for Until We Meet again.

[Laci Mosley]

I was hoping you guys would mention the last shot of the movie where Eddie shows up in the audience of Lisa's concerto performance. It's the last half second of the movie. He's shrouded in darkness, but he purposefully.

[Paul Scheer]

Turns his head just enough before the.

[Laci Mosley]

Movie fades to black.

[Paul Scheer]

You can tell it's him.

[Laci Mosley]

And then she turns to look at.

[Paul Scheer]

Him with a surprised look on her face. What was the movie trying to do? Is this meant to tell us that he's back after all, and they get a happy ending. Does this concert take place in the afterlife where she and he are long since dead? It's so perplexing to me. I absolutely have to know what you think of it. Thank you so much. And until we meet again.

[Laci Mosley]

I don't remember. I don't remember. Until we meet again. The Piano movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What have you. Did you look well?

[Paul Scheer]

I wrote it down and I was too nervous to say it because I was like, oh, now you're just gonna.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You did notice it because the camera.

[Paul Scheer]

Does linger on a face in the audience. Audience. And I was like, wait a second. So this movie says that he did figure out a way to get back from the dead. Like he is corporealized or he was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just as a ghost able to go and watch her perform. What do you think?

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, well, I mean, I thought the idea was that he couldn't go hang around it. I don't know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, that's. I agree.

[Paul Scheer]

Anyway, for all of us to kind of miss it and not be a big part of the. Maybe I think it could have been directed a little bit better. But it is in there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I didn't notice that.

[Laci Mosley]

First of all, I'm so confused. I thought we were talking about the Piano Locksmith movie with John Cusack.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah. No.

[Laci Mosley]

Okay. The Piano. Until we Meet again, the Ghost movie.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

So Molly says that he. That he went to the afterlife but can come down to watch her play. But he is corporeal. Like, he is taking up a seat in the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Did he buy a seat?

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, it looks like he bought a seat. It's funny.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It would have been better if he had been sitting on someone's lap.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, who didn't realize he was there.

[Paul Scheer]

And a lot of people bring it up to me. Have brought it up to me. And I will acknowledge it that, yes, I worked with Jackson Rathbone and he was great. He was in an NTSF episode. He was really fantastic. And. And also spice is real. Spice is real as a thin synthetic marijuana that caused a lot of problems.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

For a lot of people.

[Paul Scheer]

So just a couple of things.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think somebody said that last week when we were. Or last time when we were recording. Someone said it in the chat.

[Paul Scheer]

So there's a lot of. A lot of good. A lot of good last looks cheeses there. Anyway.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We got to bring it back to this movie for a brief second. It really is like, we. We talked about, like, how this movie really vacillates Jarringly between high school style kind of hijinks and ruthless violence. No more a better example than the final scene in the warehouse where Spader fights Nick, seems to kill him, and then it's hard cut to toe tapping on a B band.

[Paul Scheer]

Look at you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. And we cut back to live band dance sequences.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, by the way, the original end was them all taking the sats and Kim Richards going, I'm not smart enough. And then they kind of fade out on that, which is darker. That was the original line. So I think they just cut this mu music number where they all seemed like. Like Robert Downey Jr. Seems to have not have seen James Spader. Like, oh, we murdered that guy. This is the first time we're getting together at the live band.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. I was like, I don't understand how you cut to this. This, like, red dress. We're all dressed up, getting ready to have a dance again. Like. Like, aren't they. Mustn't they be haunted by what they've seen and done?

[Paul Scheer]

Or more by the police. Anyway, I will say this tough turf came out in 1985. It has a 17% of rotten tomatoes but a 60% audience score, which is higher. The log line is where enemies are made, reputations are earned, and love is the most risky affair of all. Now, check it out. The budget was 1.5. Domestic gross was 9.3. The top three movies of 85. Back to the Future, Beverly Hills Cop and Rambo, First Blood. Now, this movie came in 104th place place. But it was beaten by all these other. How did this get made movies. A View to a Kill, Lady Hawk, Life Force, and this movie beat Break into Jim K. And that Tom Selleck movie, Runaway. So it wasn't.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was.

[Paul Scheer]

It was successful.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Something. I mean, it was successful, certainly a budget at one point, whatever. And then it made nine. I mean, that. And I bet it made money on video.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, so tough. I can't believe I never saw this tough.

[Paul Scheer]

I know. Somebody was really up my butt online about doing this movie. I'm glad that we did. I mean, I would recommend it. Would you both recommend it?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would. It is too long.

[Paul Scheer]

It is too long.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Absolutely.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm trying to think of all the musical numbers. If you took out all the musical numbers, it's an hour and 30 for sure. Because there's, like, about five. Because it's like, there's not a lot of plot. It's not boring. It's like. But you do sit through the musical numbers. Like, okay, three songs.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I Feel like they play full songs whenever. If you fast forward when you see a live band, if you don't want. That's.

[Paul Scheer]

The music is good though too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was just going to say the music is good. So I don't necessarily think you need to do this, but that is areas you could fast forward because if they start playing a song, guess what? They're going to play the full song.

[Paul Scheer]

And I will say that the. The songs are shot cool. Like they intercut them really interesting. And. And by the way, you can get the whole Tough turf soundtrack for only like 14 bucks on Amazon. Like this movie looks good.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like again, it doesn't seem. It's not like it's Tammy and the T. Rex or that Ed Burns dinosaur movie we just saw. Oh, my God.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, like it's. This movie feels akin to those 80s teen movies in a. In a way that I was into, you know, it just is too, too long.

[Paul Scheer]

Obviously we're going on Tour. Go to hdtgm.com to find out where we'll be, but it be in August. We're in the hottest cities. We're coming up the middle Midwest. Tell your friends about it. Bring them all out. If you can't make it out to the tour, come check us out live. Virtually all these shows are one of a kind, A brand new movie. Every single show, we cut stuff out. It's. It is an experience. We're not just getting on stage and talking into microphones. I mean, there we are. But we also are doing other things that give you a very unique experience.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Come out to the tour, please. You know, get it, get out there. If I'm gonna get on an airplane, you guys gotta get in the seats. Come on.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, that's. I mean, Jason. Jason. When I heard Jason on the Howard Stern wrap up show this week, when you said I'm about a year behind everyone, I was like, people don't even understand what this means that you are going out on the road. Like support Jason here. All right, people, I want to give a big shout out and a thank you to our producers, Cody Fisher and Molly Reynolds, our engineer and maestro, jack of all trades, Devin Bryant, our producer, sitting in this week, Matt Apodaca, our publisher, Deli Diaz, of course, our producer Avril Halley, who found this movie, gave it to us. Cut these clips. Avril's been working overtime at finding all these movies for all these shows that we're trying to do, and we can't be thankful enough. Nate Kiley coming in hot, giving us all the research at the last minute's notice. I love this team that we have and I also want to give a big thanks to the ghost of Craig D. Nelson on Instagram who does all of our amazing art, as well as Kyle Waldron. You can find all of our episodes ad free on Stitcher Premium, but if you are a fan of the show, please follow us on Apple Podcasts, check out our cheap public store, and most importantly, keep on telling your friends. So we will see you next time. Bye for now.

[Laci Mosley]

What's Poppin listeners? I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess. The show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice. Every week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake errors we got em? What about a career con man? We've got them too guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh you know they are represented cause representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole byer, Ira Madison III, Conan O'Brien and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess. Wherever you get your podcast gas.

[Paul Scheer]

Let's talk about self care. If you want good skin, whether you have acne or you feel like you're, I don't know, looking a little bit older than you want or maybe your under eyes are showing that you've been staying up a little bit too late, there is only one mask that can help. It is the Shark Cryo Glow. I love this thing. Okay. It is the first LED mask with under eye cooling in the US only Cryoglow combines high energy blue and red LEDs with deep penetrating infrared light to help with signs of aging and acne. And this under eye Cooling. This under eye cooling. I got to tell you, it feels so damn good. Plus this IQ LED tech delivers red, blue and deep infrared light in customizable modes. It's easy to wear. You can put it on day, night whenever you want. I could be folding laundry and wearing it. It is ready is next gen. I feel like I'm in Mission Impossible of skincare. Okay, get ready. Ready to change your life and your skin? Head to sharkbeauty.com to get yours. Okay. You're going to love it. I guarantee it.