How Did This Get Made? - Episode Summary: Zack Snyder’s Justice League with Griffin Newman & David Sims

Podcast Information:

• Title: How Did This Get Made?
• Hosts: Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, Jason Mantzoukas
• Guests: Griffin Newman, David Sims
• Episode: Zack Snyder’s Justice League w/ Griffin Newman, David Sims (HDTGM Matinee)
• Release Date: March 4, 2025

Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of "How Did This Get Made?", hosts Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, and Jason Mantzoukas delve deep into "Zack Snyder’s Justice League". Joined by special guests Griffin Newman from "The Tick" and David Sims, a film critic at The Atlantic, the discussion revolves around the complexities, triumphs, and tribulations of bringing Snyder's visionary project to life.

Background on Zack Snyder’s Justice League

Zack Snyder, renowned for his distinct visual style and commitment to a cohesive cinematic universe, initially envisioned a five-film DC Extended Universe (DCEU) starting with "Man of Steel" and culminating in a "Justice League" trilogy. However, following mixed reactions to "Batman v Superman" and "Suicide Squad," Warner Brothers sought to lighten the tone by bringing in Joss Whedon. Whedon’s intervention resulted in significant alterations:

• Script Rewrite: Added 80 pages, shifting the movie’s tone to be more humorous.
• Visual Changes: Only 10% of Snyder’s original footage was used.
• Duration: The theatrical cut was a disjointed two-hour film that failed to resonate with audiences, leading to poor box office performance.

The fan-driven demand led to the release of "Zack Snyder’s Justice League" in 2021, a four-hour director's cut that restored Snyder’s original vision with minor reshoots and a significantly increased budget of $70 million.

Discussion with Guests

Griffin Newman’s Perspective

Griffin Newman shared his journey of immersing himself in the DCEU, watching all cuts of "Batman v Superman" and "Justice League." He highlighted the shift in tone and storytelling between Snyder’s and Whedon’s versions, expressing initial skepticism but eventual appreciation for the depth and cohesion in Snyder’s vision.

Notable Quote:

“The Snyder cut is a better version of the movie Justice League, full stop.”
— Paul Scheer [12:11]

David Sims’ Insight

David Sims provided a critical analysis of Snyder’s approach, emphasizing the architectural brilliance of the film's structure. He compared Snyder’s style to Christopher Nolan’s meticulous filmmaking, acknowledging the aesthetic prowess while critiquing the underlying worldview depicted in the movie.

Notable Quote:

“Zack Snyder is an incredibly compelling visual stylist. He's not a bad filmmaker. I don't like his worldview or his point of view, and so the movies don't tend to resonate with me, but I still like them.”
— Paul Scheer [75:28]

Key Points and Insights

The Snyder vs. Whedon Cuts

• Narrative Cohesion: Snyder’s version is lauded for its consistent tone and comprehensive character development, particularly for characters like Cyborg and Flash.
• Visual Style: The four-hour runtime allows for elaborate world-building and intricate action sequences that align with Snyder’s signature style.
• Fan Influence: The persistent fan campaign, characterized by substantial online petitions, was instrumental in bringing Snyder’s cut to fruition.

Notable Quote:

“Every time they are showing Themyscira, it's fantastic because Zack Snyder's style works. It looks like 300.”
— Paul Scheer [66:23]

DC vs. Marvel Cinematic Universes

• DC’s Singular Vision: Snyder aimed for a unified DCEU with interconnected storylines, contrasting Marvel’s diverse and flexible approach.
• Marvel’s Success: Marvel, under Kevin Feige, successfully manages a sprawling universe by allowing distinct tones and styles across its properties.
• DC’s Fragmentation: Post-Snyder, DC has embraced multiple interpretations of its characters across various mediums, reducing the necessity for a single cohesive narrative.

Notable Quote:

“Marvel works with ownership. DC has diversified more, the films are becoming more individual, more separate from each other.”
— Paul Scheer [71:05]

Technical and Storytelling Choices

• Slow Motion and Visual Effects: The extensive use of slow motion in Snyder’s cut is both praised for its stylistic flair and critiqued for overuse, potentially alienating some viewers.
• Character Development: Snyder’s Justice League provides deeper emotional arcs, especially for Cyborg, positioning him as the emotional core of the film.
• Epilogue and Future Setups: The extended epilogue in Snyder’s cut hints at future storylines involving Darkseid and an apocalyptic vision, though it raises questions about narrative completeness and feasibility.

Notable Quote:

“I stopped taking notes because I'm here, I'm in. Every now and then, I might jot down one thing, but I was like, you have pulled me into a world.”
— Jason Mantzoukas [19:33]

Conclusions

The episode offers a nuanced exploration of "Zack Snyder’s Justice League", acknowledging both its artistic strengths and its polarizing elements. While the hosts and guests appreciate the film's ambitious scope and visual storytelling, they also recognize the challenges posed by its length and tonal complexity. The discussion underscores the distinct differences between DC’s and Marvel’s approaches to building cinematic universes, highlighting the importance of cohesive storytelling and visionary direction.

Final Notable Quote:

“These are movies that I go back to over and over again because they vibrate at the frequency of superhero storytelling that I'm interested in watching in a way that these Snyder movies do not.”
— Paul Scheer [89:08]

Note: This summary focuses solely on the content-rich sections of the transcript, excluding advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content segments to provide a comprehensive overview of the episode's main discussions and insights.