Zack Snyder’s Justice League w/ Griffin Newman, David Sims (HDTGM Matinee)

Tue Mar 04 2025

In a special HDTGM and Blank Check crossover episode, Griffin Newman and David Sims join Paul and Jason to discuss Zack Snyder’s Justice League aka The Snyder Cut. They talk all about the differences between the theatrical version and the Snyder cut, Cyborg’s fleshed out arc, the 'knightmare' epilogue, the Icelandic folk song, and much more. (Originally released 3/25/21)

Transcript

Paul Scheer (0:00)

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June Diane Raphael (0:06)

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Griffin Newman (1:45)

Now it's time for how to Discover Made.

Jason Mantzoukas (1:48)

We're gonna have a good time celebrating failure, not just be a hater.

Paul Scheer (1:51)

Cause you know you wonder how did this remain? Let's wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art.

Griffin Newman (1:58)

Perhaps we'll find the answ to the.

Paul Scheer (2:00)

Question how did this get Made?

Jason Mantzoukas (2:02)

Hello people of Earth. I have gone by many names. Some have called me Martian Manhunter. Others call me Tall John Shear. Welcome to how did this Get Made? And hold on to your mother boxes. Today we are talking about Zack Snyder's the Justice League. It's an epic. Consider it Bat Her Return to the Superman. Here's the premise. Batman and Wonder Woman team up with the Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg to protect the Earth from an evil that threatens to eradicate life on the planet. In doing so, they must Revives Superman and it all ends in Russia. Now that's the plot. Now, if you're wondering what is Zack Snyder's Justice League, let me explain it as quickly as I can possibly do it. Zack Snyder, he had planned on a five film series in the DC universe. That's man of Steel, Batman vs Superman, a Justice League trilogy. But because of Batman vs Superman and suicide Squad, not really working, people being upset with it, they decided they would bring in somebody to make it a little bit lighter, a little bit more fun. So they brought in Chris Terrio, who is responsible for Rise of Skywalker as well as Argo. They shoot the movie, they finish it. They're like, okay, this is pretty good. 90% complete. Warner Brothers watches it. They say this is unwatchable. They hire Joss Whedon to come in and rewrite the script and help with the reshoots. During this time, Zack Snyder suffers a terrible family tragedy. He leaves the project. Joss Whedon then gets full control of the production. He adds 80 pages to the script, only uses 10% of Snyder's original footage, changes the score, and the movie comes out. And basically people are like, at best, it's a Frankenstein movie. It's just it, incongruous tones. People don't really love it at all. The movie kind of tanks. They go away from the franchises, they go into these individual films and then online, this growing movement of release, the Snyder cut comes out. It seems like a joke. It seems like this is never gonna Happen. They get 180,000 signatures on some virtual petition, and all of a sudden in 2019, we hear that it's happening. The Snyder cut is happening. It initially is gonna involve some reshoots. It's gonna cost about 30 million doll. Zack Snyder comes in, he adds five minutes or less of new footage, and the budget is now at $70 million to complete the film. That is what we watched. Four hours and two minutes of a film that was 90% complete via, you know, not including VFX shots. So this is the version and this is what we're gonna get into today. And. And there's no better person and there's no better people to talk about this with today than our guests, but also my co host, please, Welco Manzukas.

Summary

How Did This Get Made? - Episode Summary: Zack Snyder’s Justice League with Griffin Newman & David Sims

Podcast Information:

Title: How Did This Get Made?
Hosts: Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, Jason Mantzoukas
Guests: Griffin Newman, David Sims
Episode: Zack Snyder’s Justice League w/ Griffin Newman, David Sims (HDTGM Matinee)
Release Date: March 4, 2025

Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of "How Did This Get Made?", hosts Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, and Jason Mantzoukas delve deep into "Zack Snyder’s Justice League". Joined by special guests Griffin Newman from "The Tick" and David Sims, a film critic at The Atlantic, the discussion revolves around the complexities, triumphs, and tribulations of bringing Snyder's visionary project to life.

Background on Zack Snyder’s Justice League

Zack Snyder, renowned for his distinct visual style and commitment to a cohesive cinematic universe, initially envisioned a five-film DC Extended Universe (DCEU) starting with "Man of Steel" and culminating in a "Justice League" trilogy. However, following mixed reactions to "Batman v Superman" and "Suicide Squad," Warner Brothers sought to lighten the tone by bringing in Joss Whedon. Whedon’s intervention resulted in significant alterations:

Script Rewrite: Added 80 pages, shifting the movie’s tone to be more humorous.
Visual Changes: Only 10% of Snyder’s original footage was used.
Duration: The theatrical cut was a disjointed two-hour film that failed to resonate with audiences, leading to poor box office performance.

The fan-driven demand led to the release of "Zack Snyder’s Justice League" in 2021, a four-hour director's cut that restored Snyder’s original vision with minor reshoots and a significantly increased budget of $70 million.

Discussion with Guests

Griffin Newman’s Perspective

Griffin Newman shared his journey of immersing himself in the DCEU, watching all cuts of "Batman v Superman" and "Justice League." He highlighted the shift in tone and storytelling between Snyder’s and Whedon’s versions, expressing initial skepticism but eventual appreciation for the depth and cohesion in Snyder’s vision.

Notable Quote:

“The Snyder cut is a better version of the movie Justice League, full stop.”
— Paul Scheer [12:11]

David Sims’ Insight

David Sims provided a critical analysis of Snyder’s approach, emphasizing the architectural brilliance of the film's structure. He compared Snyder’s style to Christopher Nolan’s meticulous filmmaking, acknowledging the aesthetic prowess while critiquing the underlying worldview depicted in the movie.

Notable Quote:

“Zack Snyder is an incredibly compelling visual stylist. He's not a bad filmmaker. I don't like his worldview or his point of view, and so the movies don't tend to resonate with me, but I still like them.”
— Paul Scheer [75:28]

Key Points and Insights

The Snyder vs. Whedon Cuts

Narrative Cohesion: Snyder’s version is lauded for its consistent tone and comprehensive character development, particularly for characters like Cyborg and Flash.
Visual Style: The four-hour runtime allows for elaborate world-building and intricate action sequences that align with Snyder’s signature style.
Fan Influence: The persistent fan campaign, characterized by substantial online petitions, was instrumental in bringing Snyder’s cut to fruition.

Notable Quote:

“Every time they are showing Themyscira, it's fantastic because Zack Snyder's style works. It looks like 300.”
— Paul Scheer [66:23]

DC vs. Marvel Cinematic Universes

DC’s Singular Vision: Snyder aimed for a unified DCEU with interconnected storylines, contrasting Marvel’s diverse and flexible approach.
Marvel’s Success: Marvel, under Kevin Feige, successfully manages a sprawling universe by allowing distinct tones and styles across its properties.
DC’s Fragmentation: Post-Snyder, DC has embraced multiple interpretations of its characters across various mediums, reducing the necessity for a single cohesive narrative.

Notable Quote:

“Marvel works with ownership. DC has diversified more, the films are becoming more individual, more separate from each other.”
— Paul Scheer [71:05]

Technical and Storytelling Choices

Slow Motion and Visual Effects: The extensive use of slow motion in Snyder’s cut is both praised for its stylistic flair and critiqued for overuse, potentially alienating some viewers.
Character Development: Snyder’s Justice League provides deeper emotional arcs, especially for Cyborg, positioning him as the emotional core of the film.
Epilogue and Future Setups: The extended epilogue in Snyder’s cut hints at future storylines involving Darkseid and an apocalyptic vision, though it raises questions about narrative completeness and feasibility.

Notable Quote:

“I stopped taking notes because I'm here, I'm in. Every now and then, I might jot down one thing, but I was like, you have pulled me into a world.”
— Jason Mantzoukas [19:33]

Conclusions

The episode offers a nuanced exploration of "Zack Snyder’s Justice League", acknowledging both its artistic strengths and its polarizing elements. While the hosts and guests appreciate the film's ambitious scope and visual storytelling, they also recognize the challenges posed by its length and tonal complexity. The discussion underscores the distinct differences between DC’s and Marvel’s approaches to building cinematic universes, highlighting the importance of cohesive storytelling and visionary direction.

Final Notable Quote:

“These are movies that I go back to over and over again because they vibrate at the frequency of superhero storytelling that I'm interested in watching in a way that these Snyder movies do not.”
— Paul Scheer [89:08]

Note: This summary focuses solely on the content-rich sections of the transcript, excluding advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content segments to provide a comprehensive overview of the episode's main discussions and insights.