Is it possible to find points of agreement on some of the most heated and divisive issues in American politics? Can people who profoundly disagree sit down and learn from each other? The answers to both questions is an emphatic "yes!".

In this episode we hear about the current work of the Citizens Commission on Immigration from its Director, Braver Angels co-founder, David Lapp.

The goal of the Citizens Commission is to demonstrate to Congress and the nation that Americans with differing views on immigration can find common ground. The Commission works in a red/blue balanced way and includes Americans from all sides of the issue. Over the past two years, grassroots Americans and national experts and advocates of all sides of the immigration issue have met together.

"There have now been about 50 immigration events across the country," David tells us. "We can find some meaningful areas of agreement." Large majorities of participants from the left and right agree on the need for secure borders, and believe that businesses should face penalties for hiring undocumented workers. Some agreement was also found on a pathway to citizenship for "Dreamers" who came to the US as children.

The Commission was launched after about 750 delegates at the 2024 Braver Angels National Convention voted to establish immigration as a Braver Angels priority issue. By the end of this year The Commission aims to hold one hundred grassroots events across the country, and eight National Roundtable meetings.

The point of having a citizens commission on immigration speaks to what Abraham Lincoln said: "In America we're a government of the people, by the people, for the people", says David. "Our laws and our policies should reflect what we the ordinary people think."

In our interview we also discuss what David has learned in his years of committed work with Braver Angels. If you want to get a sense of the heart and soul of this movement, it's well worth listening to him. Before helping to start Braver Angels, David spent several years interviewing working-class Ohioans about their life experiences and families. He lives with his wife, Amber, and their six children in South Lebanon, Ohio—the site of the first-ever Braver Angels workshop in December 2016.

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