← How I AI
How I AI
Guillermo Rauch: Vercel CEO on how v0 hit 3,200 PRs merged per day (and lets anyone ship)
00:43:35
Loading summary
Transcript107 lines
- [00:00]
Guillermo Rauch
I'll say one thing about Vibe coding. It's really easy to go from zero to one. I think we've all seen the demos of I Promise Something and it's cool. I think what's harder is to iterate on a project at scale and to deploy changes safely. Every marketer ever sell wants to change this page at some point. And the old way was one of two ways. One is what I call you had a petition to the government, you had to go to engineers and say, engineers, can you please add a logo over here or whatnot, or pray that the CMS was perfectly wired up for any ambiguity or dream or idea you had. So now they can just open this page in V0 and prompt anything that they want.
- [00:39]
Claire Vo
It reduces the friction of getting something live really, really low. The humiliation ritual of prioritization goes away and you can actually focus your time on defending the merits of an idea on the actual idea, as opposed to the hypothesis of the idea that then has to be implemented. And so I think it changes the speed of companies in a really significant way. So this truly a first time Vibe podcast podcast that we're doing together and I wanted to introduce myself. I'm Claire Vo. I'm a product leader and obsessed with AI and I have a podcast, How I AI, where I teach people how to build better with all these new tools, including ones that we're going to see today. And I'm really excited to have you here. G First we're just going to get to the thing that everybody's wondering about. What is your most favorite feature that you released this week on V0?
- [01:35]
Guillermo Rauch
Well, I'll tell you, the hottest thing in AI today is skills. Everyone is excited about the fact that we can now augment agents and AI applications and agentic engineering with skills like skills that the model doesn't yet have. And so we launched Skills Sh. And the beautiful thing about what we'll show you today is that V0 can seriously go from prototype all the way to production. So we're able to conceive changes to things like Skills Sh. I'm going to show you really quickly. Skills Sh is a new. You can think of it as like npm. It's a hub, an open ecosystem of skills. And it's pretty dramatic what's happening to this site. So you can see that we now have 34,000 skills submitted by the community and this website has gone viral all over the Internet. It's hosted on Vercel. But the most exciting part to me is that it was conceived in V0
- [02:34]
Claire Vo
I have a quick question for the audience. How many of you have installed a skill in the last week?
- [02:40]
Guillermo Rauch
Oh, wow.
- [02:40]
Claire Vo
Okay.
- [02:40]
Guillermo Rauch
A lot of people skill build.
- [02:42]
Claire Vo
How many of you have the top three installed? Actually, top.
- [02:46]
Guillermo Rauch
It's very heavy at the top, right? It's like these are ripping.
- [02:50]
Claire Vo
No, I have top seven. Okay. Yeah, I have the top seven installed right now. This is a really great resource. So for folks that are maybe watching this later or haven't been familiar with Skills, Skills is now this standard that a lot of these agentic frameworks are using to help you repurpose and reuse best practices step by step flows. And so for example, I use this remotion best practices one to let me import components and regularly create videos really, really quickly. And I would not have been able to do this without the expertise that's been packaged in these best practices that were installed with one line using Skills Sh.
- [03:32]
Guillermo Rauch
I think it's also worth noting maybe to peel the covers of how Vercel builds products. Yep, Skills Sh was a thing that was just conceived. At the moment of inspiration we started prompting, hey, wouldn't it be cool if this thing took shape? Would we discuss, for example, what it should look like? We've been calling this a style terminal core because it looks a little bit like this is my contribution to the project. I was like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if we make the top of the website look like a terminal? And so the, the, the process itself of building this was very much prompt driven, I'll say, like chatting in Slack and saying, hey, wouldn't be nice if we had a hub for this. Just very iterative, very collaborative between the team members at Vercel. And what's really cool about this again is that it's really fast. So it takes advantage of all of the Vercel infrastructure primitives. Even though it has 35,000 of these skills. Like if I start like, like hardcore scrolling this and then pick a random one. All right, Swift, Taylor Swift. You're going to see like the page transitions are, are. It's SwiftUI. Okay, but like all the patient solutions are instant production grade. You needed to scale. There were gonna be a lot of eyes on this thing.
- [04:41]
Claire Vo
Okay, so I think we wanna get to our first workflow for how I AI and you just wanna show us how you either and the team improve this over time using the tool.
- [04:51]
Guillermo Rauch
I'll say one thing about Vibe coding. It's really easy to go from 0 to 1. Like I think we've all seen the demos of I promise something and it's cool. And I think what's harder is to iterate on a project at scale and to deploy changes safely. In the case of how we work on Vercel products, we always work on branches and we take advantage of branch previews and then we code review and then we merge them. So we're basically going to be showing you today is how we brought those ideas of hardcore heavy duty production grade engineering to V0 itself. So I'm here, I'm finding that same project that you just saw Skills Sh, which is piped into it's basically backed by git. The engineer who built this pushed some code three hours ago and you have this new button within V0 which is a new branch. So what this is showing you is that V0 is making the git flow of creating branches a first class citizen of the product. So I'm going to create a branch and basically this is going to give me the same sort of like chat experience you're used to. But notice here at the top I get this beautiful new convention of project branch, right? So I have the v 0/route G branch. And here within the preview you're going to notice that just like if you had cloned the project to your local device, we both have a full scale VS code editor as well as the real project running within v0.
- [06:40]
Claire Vo
One thing I want to pause and notice because I just have a laser eye for product is I love that you use the convention that all of us with engineering teams use on our Git branches, which is who's the contributor? What's the future? And so what I think this is really interesting. You know, we're going to talk about how you actually use these tools to build, but I also think there's a flip side of how you design great AI products and agentic products. And I still like the small design tweaks that make something like a V0 feel like a collaborative teammate on your pool. So for all the engineers out there, I noticed that little convention.
- [07:14]
Guillermo Rauch
So. And what you're going to see in the design philosophy of the product is that we really wanted to embed those little details of what makes a real engineering workflow come to life, but in a really easy way. Right? Like at the end of the day I didn't have to go to a terminal or boot up GitHub desktop and branch manually like it's the stone age, just press the button and now I have a branch running. So the main idea here is that within this preview I have the Full skills SH project running, it downloaded dependencies, it installed the exact versions of Next JS and every dependency within the project. I have it all running here. I have it obviously within a staging or dev sort of environment. And now, you know, I could navigate it like I could navigate the production website, I could explore it, I could, you know, use all the capabilities that V0 brings to the table. But I figured let's actually build a feature that we could ship to product.
- [08:14]
Claire Vo
Yeah. And one thing I want to pause on what you I think glossed over a little bit, which is the fact that you have this VS code instance, the fact that you have all your dependencies installed, the fact that this is running both with code and a preview for anybody who's less technical out there and maybe a lot of your users that are using v0 app are less technical. This even like downloading VS code, getting your local environment set up. Like I spent this morning with my designer installing homebrew like, like it just wasn't on her laptop.
- [08:43]
Guillermo Rauch
And so it's nightmare for you.
- [08:45]
Claire Vo
It's nightmare. And so if you're trying to step from this like vibe coding prototype in web experience into feeling more like a software engineer without having to have Claire handhold you through like Brew install, this gets you like halfway there. And so I think there's also this learning aspect of it I want to make sure people don't miss. But let's get into building something.
- [09:08]
Guillermo Rauch
So one another part of our product development process is really listening to community and listening to customers. So people have been asking for a lot of different tools so that we could guide them towards knowing if a skill is high quality, vetted, verified because there's so many skills. Last we checked were 500 skills being added every hour. And so one of the ideas that we came up with is like, could we add a rating system? So let's add a five star based system rating system board skills, put it on the sidebar. Be mindful. So I'll also give you a little bit of my real time consciousness on if I were talking to an engineer and say what could go wrong if we accept ratings from the Internet? One of the things that can go wrong if you accept ratings from the Internet is abuse. So let's sell V0. Be mindful that we should rate, limit or prevent abuse on the scores that we receive. And again, for me it's all about thinking from a production readiness point of view. When I think about the new V0 and make it make sense within the style of this skills website What I
- [10:27]
Claire Vo
love about what you're showing us is you have this very, very high sophistication prompt here, which is make it make sense. So we have three incomplete sentences on a production app serving thousands, millions of people.
- [10:40]
Guillermo Rauch
That's right. So let's.
- [10:41]
Claire Vo
And you're gonna fire it off. And while you do this, one of the things I want to just call out that I think you know why this feature is maybe important right now is I don't know if you've heard there's like this crustacean crawling all over everybody's MacBook minis and skills can be a prompt injected vector for things. And so as you're trying to make sure that this becomes the centralized hub for discovering skills, which I think it's starting to be, it is upon you to. To make sure that the quality is there. At least you have the right thing, right things in place so people can make the decisions.
- [11:10]
Guillermo Rauch
To follow with your analogy, this is a little bit like we're vibe coding on top GitHub.com or npmjs.com it's like a really, really big deal. All right, so I was going to walk you through what V0 is doing, which of course, if you've used V0 before, everyone does the whole like talk over the thinking trace because agents are not the fastest. But I do want to point out a few things that are really important. So V0 is all about leveraging the integration and marketplace capabilities of Vercel. So in this case it knows what the data source is of this project. Right. We're storing data in Redis by app stash. Obviously it's going to go through the whole file system is going to try to interpret my requirements. This is already like really nice to see that it's not inventing a new way to store the data. Like it's actually paying attention to the data that I use. And so we'll take a look at again here. Like it actually gave me something that kind of meets my requirements. Right. Like it fits within the design style. I can submit a rating, it stores the rating. So I have now my 5 star 1 rating. I guess I'm gonna.
- [12:19]
Claire Vo
It's terminal core. You got your model space font.
- [12:23]
Guillermo Rauch
Um, let's refresh the page to see that persistence actually works. Beautiful. There's a tiny bit of layout shift that triggers my neurosis. So we'll tell it, hey, when we don't have data, make sure there's no layout shift. By the way, for those of you that are like less neurotic, I guess so it bothered me that when we refreshed the page when we didn't have data like it jittered the sidebar a little bit. So we're just gonna have a zero.
- [12:49]
Claire Vo
So while we're jibber jabbering while the. It's thinking, which I have to get very good at as a podcast. So I will call out that I have observed a vercel internal hackathon and I have seen this man screenshot like rounded corners that are not right and just put them in the chat with like a question mark. And so I. It's. It's. Yeah, it. It speaks to my. My very attention to detail heart that you saw. You saw that. Let's see, did it work?
- [13:17]
Guillermo Rauch
Yeah, no, I'm fairly satisfied like the, the skeleton was stable.
- [13:20]
Claire Vo
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [13:22]
Guillermo Rauch
Zero layer shift. So let's continue with the. We talked about this hardcore engineering workflow. Like if we were making a change like this on skills sh again, receiving hundreds of skills per hour with lots of visitors. We first want to make sure that things work right. And right now you can think of this as a very capable dev environment. We're booting up the next JS dev server in a virtual machine. It's basically very true to the actual end results. In fact, thank you to the next JS engineers who sweated all of the details of mirroring to the best of their ability, the dev environment and the production environment. But there is another layer of assurance that we can get right, which is. So if you're more familiar with the GitHub world, the GitHub side of things, you know that when you push a new priority to GitHub, this beautiful Vercel bot comes to sort of save the day, right? You know that it builds what you. What you're changing and then it previews it. Not only that, but notice that V0 really cool. V0 is making me look so good here because I haven't written a PR description in like 25 years, 84 years. So V0 produced a PR described it. Um, and then the magic of Vercel is coming in, right? So it's giving me that preview. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna open it here. I'm gonna say visit preview.
- [14:48]
Claire Vo
I'm just. Again, I'm gonna be a software engineer for a second. Can we appreciate how quickly that preview branch deployed?
- [14:54]
Guillermo Rauch
Well, don't trigger me because it can be 10 times quicker. But yeah, I'm proud of it.
- [14:59]
Claire Vo
Question mark. Explain.
- [15:00]
Guillermo Rauch
Now I have a production like environment. So when you see this URL ending on Vercel sh. Vercel SH is our enterprise Vercel environment. That's why I had the 17 steps of logging in. But this is basically running on the production grade CDN on the production grade, rendering infrastructure, hosting infrastructure, et cetera. So now when I'm seeing that rating there, I have pretty good confidence. I was like, yeah, this is shippable.
- [15:27]
Claire Vo
Okay, so I have to ask a couple questions about the inside the house view of this. Is this how you all are shipping code or is this a big chunk of how you're shipping code to this? Is it a hundred percent? How are you actually using this for production?
- [15:41]
Guillermo Rauch
So it's really interesting. We, when we cook on a, on a project or a product internally, we hold ourselves to the same sort of high bar as if you had launched a product externally because you want to make sure that people are actually adopting it. Right. And so before, before we started chatting and I'm going to give you a glimpse of again, the behind the scenes of Vercell. We've talked a lot publicly about our Data Analyst, Agent D0. Yes. We're very creative with names. We take the first initial and we add a zero. So this is our data AI powered assistant. And I was actually asking it, I said V0. This is me, by the way. Tell me about PR's merge with V0 in the recent weeks. Tell me about its growth. So again, PR submerged with DZero is a totally novel thing. And Dzero cooked. Thank you, DZero. It said PR's merged via DZero have seen explosive growth in the last week. Wow. Explosive growth.
- [16:40]
Claire Vo
I have to appreciate whoever prompt managed this one because it did not put the explosion emoji in there, which I think would also trigger G. We should.
- [16:49]
Guillermo Rauch
Yeah, trigger warning. Starting from near zero in early January, the feature hit 3200. PR merged per day by 1-28-29, which is basically today an extra area a hundred X. The bots, the AIs do like to like, like, yeah, like sweet, sweet talk us, but it's, it's pretty amazing. So this is in very, very, very early preview. Right. Like we, we're just letting people in. But I mean, this is just such a beautiful workflow. I mean, imagine triggering a task like this from your phone, from Slack, from V0, that app. Another convenience that we're adding is that you can take a GitHub repo like this and I can go to the homepage and then I can paste it. And so now I could import something that I already have and create a chat from it. So anytime I have an idea for a real world project and product that Vercel has in production, I can now prompt. So I estimate that this is going to change fundamentally how we work. Right. It's also very visual in nature, which is really cool. Obviously, there's a lot of ways of like, getting preview, getting changes made by agents today out there in the world. Everyone's very excited about what, what AI can do, but this is actually showing me the actual results and like things that are going to happen. So I grade this really high for the kind of products that we build at Vercel, and I expect this to continue to have a lot of traction.
- [18:18]
Claire Vo
So I have to ask you, sort of operationally, how do you imagine companies do this? And one of the things I'm thinking is I was chatting with Caroline, who interrupted you all and said, we're going to start the podcast. And she said, last night I was prepping for this demo and I V0 coded something and somebody saw it and was like, well, that's a good idea. You should just merge it and ship it. Like, do you imagine or inside the company who's shipping code? How are you enabling that as a CEO, how does the culture support it? How does it not?
- [18:48]
Guillermo Rauch
Until now, everyone could cook, right? Everyone could create a prototype, a new design, a suggestion, in fact, moment of vulnerability because I haven't really even opened this in a while, but let's see if I have. I've probably created a bunch of things that I've been suggesting to the teams that we could look at, right? Ignore this one for a second, but. So anytime I have an idea on how to improve the product, I nowadays create a V0. Now, the difference is that until I had this mechanism to hand it off as a pull request to the engineering team, then I was kind of like playing in La La Land. I was like out there in this prototype world. And now we have a common foundation and a common substrate. So that if you have an idea, whether you work in marketing, marketers always want to change the website. Like imagine, like, go to vercel.com, i'll show you a page that is actually quite fun at Vercel. So our enterprise page. Every marketer at Vercel wants to change this page at some point, right? And the old way was one of two ways. One is what I called you had a petition to the government. You had to go to engineers and say, engineers, please, can you, can you please add a logo over here or Whatnot or pray that the CMS was perfectly wired up for any ambition or dream or idea you had. So now they can just open this page in V0 and prompt anything that they want. But it would be somewhat irresponsible to just ship it. Right? So with the git workflow and opening a priority and being able to preview it, we can all build confidence that it's going to be a good change, roll it back if needed and, and again, this is a website that's pretty, pretty large.
- [20:37]
Claire Vo
What I think is fun about this from an org perspective perspective is it reduces the friction of getting something live really, really low. Right? And like the humiliation ritual of prioritization goes away and you can actually focus your time on defending the merits of an idea on the actual idea as opposed to the hypothesis of the idea that then has to be implemented. And so I think it changes the speed of companies and in a really significant way.
- [21:04]
Guillermo Rauch
And you worked, I mean to say the least at launchdarkly. And you know that a true production grade release process involves things like feature flags and experiments and things need to be measured and there is events that are critical to report from these product services. And so this is also where I see the skills that we can add to V0 and that you can contribute yourself to play a very important role because sometimes you know like we're all operating on this like websites and pixels and whatnot and we say like ah, it's seems easy. How risky could it be to move this button 20 pixels to the right? And so I think we can make by coding scale to that kind of rigor that exists within enterprises and companies at scale.
- [21:48]
Claire Vo
Well and if we're being honest on that enterprise, it's not going to be moving a button two pixels, it's going to be switching the emphasis. I know this because I've spent my life in enterprise switching the emphasis between contact sales and view the product. There's going to be a perpetual debate which one's the primary call to action, which is the secondary. Okay, I we so we've shown new v0 import GitHub, which I think is really great. Do a pull request, copy and paste your GitHub URL in to import it. Actually push to production, make friends with your engineers. Three sentence prompting, no more than that. I want to go to a quick because we want to keep this tight. I want to go to a quick lightning round with you and ask you a couple different AI questions. So what is your favorite non. I mean everything's a coding use case I'm sure with you, but what is your favorite non coding use case of AI?
- [22:37]
Guillermo Rauch
Well, I'm conflicted. My mind immediately went to image generation because I use. So we built up banger playgrounds. I don't want to share screen again, I want to take it from you, but this is.
- [22:48]
Claire Vo
Oh no, I was just going to say image generation is how I got this pretty, pretty background.
- [22:52]
Guillermo Rauch
B0 Nano Banana Pro, Vercel.
- [22:54]
Claire Vo
Banana. Banana.
- [22:55]
Guillermo Rauch
So what's really cool that's happening at Vercel today is that we're building so many of our own internal tools and agents and so we're building our own design tools, like for example, to create new images. We created a playground for nanobanana and I use that a lot. So I use it to make memes. Guilty as charged. But I also use it when I want to present information in really cool ways, when I tweet, when I sometimes have to make present my vision in a way that's more like on the image side of things. I combine it a lot with V0 because nano banana is really good at like again, letting me fire off 20 generations in parallel and then pick the one that I actually like and then I toss it into V0 and then I actually get more fidelity of what I want to implement. So image generation is a big one. But also I'm very excited about video generation. We're going to be dropping something. I don't want to spoil it too much. We're going to be dropping something on the video side as well. But yeah, all AI is. I also kick off a lot of research tasks, like Long Horizon research tasks. Yeah.
- [24:01]
Claire Vo
So one of the things I want to call out from a Nano Banana perspective or podcast is I've used Nano Banana to turn every conversation. I think we're now at 118 workflows. Every AI workflow that we talk about on the podcast gets its own pretty consistent Nano Banana infographic. And so I just think there's just such undervalued use cases in both image and videogen. And I'm about to take this and turn them all into little mini videos.
- [24:27]
Guillermo Rauch
We also created a really awesome. I don't know if we've written about it yet, we're going to publish on the blog post. We have an OG image like Open Graph Card, Twitter Card generator that we use internally that combines more traditional rendering techniques, but also image generation. So a bottleneck in our team was sometimes literally like, can we get that social card to get the announcement through the door? And so now we've also sort of automated and agentified that every day we're basically asking ourselves, how can we build an agent that takes over a task that we were previously giving to a person? And typically the person that was working on that task, is that the one creating the agent? So something we said at the beginning is we want V0 to be really awesome for you all to create agents, not just traditional web applications. So that's, that's basically the, the, the run up of the product.
- [25:18]
Claire Vo
So I have to say my favorite. So that's your favorite use case. My favorite use case of your use of V0, which I don't know if you're. You're prepared for me to have this much knowledge about what you vibe code is your agent to agent chess game. My kids are obsessed with this. They think it's because they got the AI chessboard.
- [25:37]
Guillermo Rauch
Yeah.
- [25:37]
Claire Vo
And now they're like playing chess at various levels.
- [25:40]
Guillermo Rauch
By the way, I learn a lot, so. So it was really cool. Like during the holidays, I, I'm a. I'm kind of a visual person. So the chess AI thing has been done before, but I imagined this sort of imagine like ESPN is, is. Is is broadcasting a final of a chess match and they're going over the shoulder of each player and showing the. The chessboard obviously in 3D. And so I figured could V0 generate 3D code? Right. Could it render with three JS and things like that, a live chess match? And could I have two AIs battle it out and so you could open it? So the zero chess match resell app. And the other thing. The other thing. I wonder If I am SEO'd or not.
- [26:31]
Claire Vo
You're number one. Good job.
- [26:32]
Guillermo Rauch
Yes.
- [26:33]
Claire Vo
Oh, a little terminal core over here, so.
- [26:36]
Guillermo Rauch
Terminal core, of course. But so what I did is I started streaming the thinking tokens of the models. Apologies to Google in advance. We're using a very old model of theirs that is really cheap. But they're losing 2,205. At least they got five in. So you can see the thinking tokens of the models. This is combining all of the Vercel AI infrastructure. It's using a workflow so the game could run forever. The game could literally run forever or until I run into tokens.
- [27:07]
Claire Vo
AI Gateway.
- [27:08]
Guillermo Rauch
AI Gateway, of course, because we can change models. We could see Grok versus whatever what dropped this week. Gwen three max thinking. But also I learned chess, incidentally, because. Not from these guys. These guys are kind of dumb. But you can see how it thinks through what piece to move. And then it says, oh, no, because if I move it there, I'm going to get F'd. So I need to do this. So this is a fun V0 created during the holidays.
- [27:36]
Claire Vo
Yeah. So I need a kid core version of this. I also want to see how much these models are spending to beat and lose.
- [27:43]
Guillermo Rauch
Well, that's the beautiful thing about the AI Gateway is that we kind of report, you know, for this prompt, how much it costs you with this model, et cetera. But see, so this is GPT open source, which is actually pretty decent and pretty cheap. So great.
- [27:58]
Claire Vo
And then so on this. So that's my kid's favorite, your V0. I don't know if they have a favorite my V0.
- [28:05]
Guillermo Rauch
It's popular with kids. I also got another parent reach out to me and say, like, oh, this really inspired us and we're going to use v0 together to create more things.
- [28:11]
Claire Vo
My kids dau on v0. Don't worry about it. So this is my second question, which is, what is the last thing you built with your kids? That was really fun.
- [28:20]
Guillermo Rauch
So the other day I brought them all to the office and what we started, Vibe coding, is so now we want to do things that are more like physical AI, like bring AI to the real world. I think it's the next frontier. And so at the office we have a thing called Vesta Board, which is a board where you can basically render things in the real world. And I think I really broke their brains that day. Not all of them, because I brought four of them and one was on his iPad, not paying attention. It was almost like bringing them to Sunday school, for what it's worth. But two of them were like, holy crap, you can type in code and then you can change the real world. So I kind of taught them the concept of an API and yeah, all that coded. And I took one of the nannies too, and she was mind blown.
- [29:06]
Claire Vo
Well, that is, I am teaching everyone
- [29:07]
Guillermo Rauch
how to wipe code.
- [29:08]
Claire Vo
That is, you and I, we're like twin stars here because, well, you have the Vesta board, which is pretty big. I have this like tiny, like 32 by 32 pixel fake little mini computer that my kids and I are like vibe coding little screens on and little games on. So I completely agree. Take it off the screen for many reasons. If you have kids, put it in the real world and you can do some fun stuff and blow their mind
- [29:30]
Guillermo Rauch
sending a packet and responding to it. And the beautiful thing about V0 and things like this is like, you're literally speaking English to The computer. So I think if you can teach them that they can express their thoughts and desires, then they can make anything happen.
- [29:44]
Claire Vo
Okay, important question. Are you teaching your kids to type?
- [29:47]
Guillermo Rauch
That's a tough one. Because I was. When I grew up in Argentina, my dad got me this soccer game. He tricked me. I thought, oh, he's getting me FIFA or something. Cool. No, he got me a soccer typing game. So to score I had to type really fast. And that's how I learned to type really fast. But nowadays they're kind of getting really into the speech to text thing. I need to find that hack where like, oh, I got you Roblox. And it's not, it's just a typing.
- [30:13]
Claire Vo
So I'm tricking my youngest right now. We have a switch. And I really want to play Ocarina of Time for people that were born when that game came out a million years ago. And the only reason I let him play it is it's like 99% just reading.
- [30:27]
Guillermo Rauch
Nice.
- [30:28]
Claire Vo
And so I'm like, you can play this very slow paced game. It's a game. It's really just going NPC to NPC and reading two phrases.
- [30:35]
Guillermo Rauch
I really like that. Phrases. I like that. So we played a game like this with my kids during the holiday break. It was basically like a puzzle math game that looked like a game and that inspired. So, okay, good and bad. The good was the game was like really educational. The bad was like, it was like ad ridden brain rot slop. And so I was like, okay, huge opportunity for someone to create a game platform. You can combine all of these models. You can do image generation for the assets. We're about to drop something insanely cool text to svg. There's models that now produce really, really high quality. We're going to share recraft models through the Vercel AI gateway so you can create assets that are beautiful, game ready, scalable in high DPI, screens, whatever, iPad. And so I really, I see the future of really high quality content at our fingertips and getting rid of all this slop.
- [31:32]
Claire Vo
Yeah, well, you know, my, my feature roadmap releases are not as confidential as yours. And so I am in the back of my mind working on like Mama Claire's dojo for crack little hackers.
- [31:42]
Guillermo Rauch
Nice.
- [31:43]
Claire Vo
So maybe someday. And deployed on obviously Vercel. Okay, last question. Do you, when you're frustrated, prompt AI the same way I have seen you prompt in Zoom Chat, which is explain how do you. How do you, how do you. Yeah, question like, what do you do when it's not giving you what you want.
- [32:03]
Guillermo Rauch
So I do think that what we, what we're dropping now is going to help you so much for the moments where, I mean, let's be real, you can get stuck with AI, right? But now that you can essentially have this full, like, let's call it escape hatch, right? Like you can, if you want, you can clone the repo and keep cooking on your local machine or if you need some. Someone else to help you. This is fundamentally a collaborative medium. That's the thing that GitHub unlocked for the world. Collaboration between engineers, designers, marketers. And so I foresee that a lot less people are going to get stuck, frankly. The models also keep getting smarter skills is going to help you a lot as well. So I'll give you an example. We are always adding new frameworks and new capabilities. And next JS is getting more powerful. And the AI SDK, now that we have skills for those that we're going to preload into V0, the model itself is not gonna get it stuck as easily because now it has more resources to figure out how to solve that problem. Another thing that I've done is actually used it for this project. So there's a lot of subtleties about this 3D thing that I didn't know anything about 3D. So whenever I would get stuck, I would ask other models. I think it was something about the way that. And kudos to the awesome soul, the. The gentleman that Open sourced the 3D. So I got it from a sketchfab and he didn't design this for creating a game or anything like that. So all of the pieces were stuck together. It was almost like you had 3D printed it and the pieces were stuck together with the board. And so obviously I want that sweet animation that when the model decides, it moves the piece, right? And so I had to ask a lot of questions to other models about, hey, teach me what's going on with this 3D thing, how do I reason about it? And then I would copy what another model tells me and I would toss it into v0. So another thing that you can do when you get stuck is she can't see it here because it's only for me. But there's a debug button and what the debug button says, I asked V0, hey, give me debugging tools so that I can visualize the mesh of the 3D model. I can visualize, I can turn the textures on and off. And so the, the AI itself can help itself and can give you tools to debug problems, which is kind of meta, but try it, try it and it's going to work well for you.
- [34:27]
Claire Vo
Okay. So you, you ask an expert, which is another model, and you find out the right question to ask. Well, this has been very fun. Thank you for showing us a little bit behind the curtain of how you use v0. All the new stuff, some of the ways you use it in your personal life and fun projects. We love to see it. So you have this new V0, you have this room full of people. What do you want from them? What can they do for you?
- [34:48]
Guillermo Rauch
I mean, get busy shipping. So try it out, give us feedback. We will fix it very, very fast because we're going to be eating our own dog food and. Yeah, share the things that you built with V0.
- [35:02]
Claire Vo
Oh, we have a question back here. Oh, I love it.
- [35:05]
Audience Member 1
So I had a question. Thank you for sharing. Like the feedback process, how you loop in terms of from ideation to production. During that process, do you do any product market fit? How do you validate that what you're trying to build is actually useful or impactful for your ecosystem?
- [35:24]
Guillermo Rauch
Yeah, super hot off the presses. New sort of mental model that we've been using internally. There's a customer zero and a customer one. Customer zero. We like to be ourselves. We. It's like the Rick Rubin, the confidence in our ability to know what's good, whatever. Like, we like our taste. We. We've been around the block for a while. We want. We have ideas of products that we would like to see out there in the, in the universe. But customer one is also really important, like a close design partner, Claire Vo. Oh, Claire V0. And Claire and our CPO are constantly texting.
- [35:59]
Claire Vo
We're on a text chain. Yeah, she.
- [36:01]
Guillermo Rauch
She texts bug reports. She texts things she needs. So having that group of design partners, enterprise companies, individuals, community members, people that slide into my xdms. So it's. You always wanted that pressure test of the world and for skills, it was that, you know, people telling us, hey, like, why does opus4.5 kind of know the latest next JS but not really? And how can we embed your best practices? So that was kind of like in our backlog. Like we were thinking about that problem for a while, but then it also became really concrete. We were like, okay, how would we go about distributing and discovering the skills? And so sort of the idea became very concrete. And that's where a tool like V0 really helps you. Because when you want to extract out of your mind, you can just v0 it. And so pretty much what you see today, it started with like four or five V0 prompts in a conversation with our VP of Design, who then took it away further and made it actually good. And, and our, our CTO and our, and our product leader. So you mentioned about VMs, is there a possibility of having react native in V0? So what you saw today is if you feel the covers of how V0 is built, it's built on a bunch of Vercel infrastructure that you also all have access to. The virtual machine that we use to run that next JS preview is called Sandbox. So the Vercel Sandbox. And it's a very powerful computer. In fact, what's actually making agents really capable is not that they're perfect, is that they have a computer at their disposal in order to solve every, any problem. So the reason we showed you a glimpse of how we work internally with D0, the reason D0 is so good at data analysis is that it has a computer where it can do research, it can write Python code, it can run it, it can make a lookup to Snowflake, it can search the web, it can come back, it can fix it, it's like a four or five minute process. Right. And so this computers are very powerful general purpose computers. You could imagine them running React native, you could imagine them writing other programming languages, they can obviously already write Python and run it. And so the sky's the limit from that perspective.
- [38:11]
Claire Vo
I have a question on that topic. Is there going to be a point at which V0 is going to help you build those agents?
- [38:17]
Guillermo Rauch
Oh, absolutely. So the main idea of this chess thing, it's cute, but I mentioned the word workflow, so it's actually tricky for me to say this program is gonna run forever in the presence of network or compute failures. So in fact, like, you know, we're doing this live and just randomly came up with the idea. The reason I had confidence the demo is gonna work is that if an LLM provider is down or a function called dies or times out or whatever the workflow engine of Vercel will say we're doing live, we're going to try it again and we're going to try it again, and we're going to try it again. What we're going to help you do is create those kind of workflows from within v0. A lot of agents need that kind of reliability. For example, you send a message from Slack and you say GPT, go and spec out this PRD for me.
- [39:12]
Claire Vo
Yeah, it's called Chat Purity. It is running on workflows.
- [39:16]
Guillermo Rauch
And, yes, we didn't rehearse this.
- [39:18]
Claire Vo
Yeah. So we. We do have. We do have. I feel the pain on. On agents where workflows are really helpful because they give you durable overtime execution. You can retry things, things can fail. You can do them sequentially. You can do all sorts of things. And so I do think the ability for you to build that on the backend is very helpful for. Even for applications that don't have the same kind of UI that you have, because some.
- [39:40]
Guillermo Rauch
Some are very visual, and some are gonna be more headless. Like, some are gonna be background agents that are doing work for you. In fact, the world is excited about the artist formerly known as claudebot. Moldbot. I don't know what Moltbot means, by the way.
- [39:56]
Claire Vo
Well, crustaceans. This is how, you know you have kids in, like, elementary schools. Crustaceans, like, lose their shell, so they molt.
- [40:03]
Guillermo Rauch
Molt, yeah.
- [40:04]
Claire Vo
It's like a snake.
- [40:05]
Guillermo Rauch
Yeah. Got it.
- [40:07]
Claire Vo
And then emerge to steal your bank account.
- [40:10]
Guillermo Rauch
But so that's a beautiful example of the background thing. Right. Because you text it and it does a bunch of stuff for you, and then it responds. So that. That's the kind of thing that we want you to be able to build with V0, where it's going to use workflows. It might use Sandbox, and it might be more. I think Moldbot is, like, super general. It can do anything and even hack your computer. But I expect a lot of really cool agents to work that way. Like, you just WhatsApp them. Yeah. And we'll help you build those with V0.
- [40:40]
Claire Vo
And the last thing I actually deployed on Vercel was my live Multbot conversation. So if you want to see what is terminal, I. Well, I shut the computer and walked away. I did not enjoy my. It was an interesting experience. You can smash that subscribe button if you want to watch it. But I did. I did deploy to Vercel a terminal view of my conversation with Molebot. So you can go. It's like.
- [41:06]
Guillermo Rauch
It's Clawbot Confessions.
- [41:08]
Claire Vo
Yeah. Oh, that's exactly what it is. Yeah. It's real scary. Great. Maybe one more question.
- [41:13]
Audience Member 2
Oh, wow. What an honor. First of all, thank you so much for hosting the event. Thank you so much for the new V0. I ship a lot with V0. My co founder is using cursor, and now we have, like, a mutual compatibility.
- [41:24]
Guillermo Rauch
We're so back.
- [41:25]
Claire Vo
Love it.
- [41:25]
Audience Member 2
There you go. And so I wanted to again, I'm also a V0ambassador. There we go. Let's go. I wanted to ask two questions. Number one, a little bit different, but when do you think. So V0 has really democratized the ability to go from prompt to UI that works and UI that satisfies the prompt that the user created. When do you think that paradigm is going to happen within consumer in gen ui? I see that your team has been playing with a bunch of different libraries, different ways to create that. When do you think that switch is happening? And then the second question, when can I write a prompt and then deploy to the App Store?
- [42:06]
Guillermo Rauch
Yeah. So on the first question, sometimes you're going to want like a flash v0. So we're playing with ideas around generative UI where an agent might decide to render something and think of it as like spontaneously creating the UI code and then rendering it right away. You're not actually creating a code and an application and deploying it. You just want to make it happen. So we're doing a lot of research on like what would that look like? So it's another tool that we can give agents on the App Store. Question, you've seen some of the stuff that we've been doing with v0ios app react native skills. A long held dream of ours has been to really democratize pushing to the App Store like you would push to the web. And everything here is like sort of using that same, those same ingredients React based deployment platform. Just deploy with one press of a button and whatnot. So yeah, don't want to promise any timelines, but definitely something we want to do.
- [43:04]
Claire Vo
Thank you. Thanks everybody. Thanks so much for watching. If you enjoyed this show, please like and subscribe here on YouTube or even better, leave us a comment with your thoughts. You can also find this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite podcast podcast app. Please consider leaving us a rating and review which will help others find the show. You can see all our episodes and learn more about the show@howiaipod.com See you next time.