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- [00:00]
A
Wondery subscribers can listen to how I built this early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I love traveling with my family. We did an awesome trip this summer and we discovered so many cool things and one of the things that made the trip so special were the Airbnb experiences we did immersive tours, cooking classes, a chance to get coffee with a world class barista, even a meetup with a renowned chef. I had so much fun on those experiences that I decided to host my own Airbnb Original Experience in San Francisco. It's called the Reinvention Lab and it's designed to help you think about how to unlock your next big move in your career or even in your life. I'll help you discover your own story in ways I do on this show with my guests and attendees will get a chance to take a deep, deeper dive with me on so many lessons I've learned from this show, lessons that have transformed how I work and think about the future. So come join me in San Francisco and take your idea to the next level. To learn more about my Airbnb Original Experience, sign up for an Airbnb account and head to airbnb.com guy and I'm excited to see you there. Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. And no matter what you like, Audible's Romance collection has something to make you swoon. Here's your invitation to have it all. Find a book boyfriend in the city and another on the hockey field. Or if nothing on this earth touches your heart, you can always find love in another realm. Hear modern rom coms from authors like Lily Chu and Ali Hazelwood, the latest romantasy series from Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros, and Regency favorites like Bridgerton and Outlander. And that's only the beginning. Audible has an incredible selection with over 1 million audiobooks, podcasts and audiobooks Audible originals all in one easy app. And you can enjoy Audible anytime while doing other things. Household chores, exercising on the road, commuting, you name it. Audible makes it easy to drop into your fantasies during your everyday routine without needing to set aside extra time. There's more to imagine when you listen. Your first great love story is free. When you sign up For a free 30 day Audible trial, visit audible.com built if you've started your own business, you know just how many challenges there are, big and small. I mean, look at how I built this building. This show came with a lot of trials, late nights, very, very early mornings. But even though there were challenges getting started. There is something that makes setting up a new business easier. Getting connected with AT&T business. It doesn't matter what your business is dealing with, AT&T business helps to make it much, much easier. And that's the point of a provider in the first place. Making building your dream easier. Wake up to the power of ATT business@business.att.com that's business.att.com hello and welcome to the advice line on How I Built this Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And this week we have a special episode. It's a bit of a mashup. Three callers and three different former guests. But all three conversations find their way to a challenge all founders face, which is how do I play to my strengths? By the way, if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a 1 minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And you can also send us a voice memo@hibtid.wondery.com and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free@guyraz.com or on substack and we'll put all of this info in the podcast Descript. All right, let's get to it. Our first guest today is Troy Carter, the founder of Atom Factory, which managed stars like Lady Gaga and John Legend. Troy was first on How I Built this back in 2018. He told us about how he got a start working for the Fresh Prince in West Philadelphia and how he eventually went from there all the way to the top of the music business in la. It's an amazing story and we'll put a link to it in the show notes, so check it out. Of course, Troy has a lot of experience managing celebrities, but he cautioned our callers on the advice line to be careful with big names and influencers. It's not enough for you to be excited about a celebrity partner. The celebrity needs to be excited about your brand as well. Welcome to the Advice line. You're on with me And Troy Carter, tell us your name and where you're calling from. And just one line about your business, please.
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B
Hello, I am Onna, and I'm an Aussie, and my brand is Dosi. And we make beautiful pill organizers because pill takers deserve pretty things, too.
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A
All right, pill organizers, welcome to the show. Honor. Thank you for joining us. So the company's called Dozy, and you make organizers for pills. Like, you know, when you go to, like, CVS and get a plastic case with a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday on it. But yours are nicer. They're more elegant.
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B
Yeah, they're pretty. That was the whole thing when I wanted to create the brand because I'm a pill taker and I just wanted something that was aesthetic. Aesthetic. And it was felt more like me than just one of those sort of cheap plastic ones that you find.
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A
Yeah, it's interesting. Interesting, because this feels like a place ripe for disruption. Okay, how did you get into this business? What were you doing? Were you in consumer goods?
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B
Before I was in radio in Australia, I worked in radio for 15 years, getting up at 4am and doing all the fun things for radio and all the creativity that I was putting into that career, I just sort of got to a point where I was like, I want to sort of do my own thing, and I want to create my own creative thing and sort of channel my energy into that. And as I said, I'm a pill taker. So I sort of was looking around at products that I could sort of reinvent. And, yeah, it was the good old pill organizer that I finally stumbled on.
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A
It's a cool idea. I'm looking at it now. I'm looking at your website and seeing the different, like, pill cases. Because when I travel, honestly, I take, like, supplements, you know, vitamins and fish oil, and I just throw them in a Ziploc bag.
- [06:46]
B
Yeah, I was sitting there. I was literally sitting in a hotel one time, and I had my pills in this Ziploc bag. And, you know, I had this beautiful beauty case. I had a beautiful suitcase. I had all this beauty. And then I had these pills in this Ziploc bag, and I was just like, what is that about? You know, this is something I need to take for my health every, you know, like, a few times a day, and it's not pretty.
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A
Yeah. So you decided to go in this direction. Smart move. By the way, I'm always in favor of people leaving mainstream journalism, media organizations, and starting on their own, as I did. Honor, are you based in Australia still?
- [07:21]
B
No. So I launched the brand in Australia from my spare bedroom. Did you know the whole side hustle thing? The brand went viral on TikTok after about six months, and I was getting so much demand from the American market that that I just thought, okay, well, I'll do that. And I launched it in America after six months. Still just me, just by myself.
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A
You're now based here in the US?
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B
Yeah, now I'm based in America, and it's an American company, and we have an American warehouse, and it's all very American.
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A
Awesome. Tell me a little bit about what you project for sales this year in 2025.
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B
Yeah, so 2025, we're looking at $3.5 million in sales. In sales, yeah. Profitably, too. So we kept everything super lean and tried to keep it as streamlined as possible and just sell as many as we can.
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A
All right, so you've got a nice business going, and you've got some profit on those sales. Tell me, before we dive in further, what's the question you have for us?
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B
Well, I wanted to talk, Troy, to you about celebrities. We're sort of at that point where it'd be great to do some partnerships, but then you see these bigger brands, like Rhode selling for a billion dollars. Or there was this, a glitter freckle brand that sent their stuff to Taylor Swift, and she put it on, and they went ballistic. I just.
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A
How.
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B
How do you make a brand and a celebrity come together and it actually work and then even equity share, because it's not like we have billions of dollars to throw at a celebrity.
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A
Yeah, it's a great question, Troy. I want to bring you in. Troy Carter, before we answer her question, do you have any. Any questions for honor? No.
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C
It sounds like an amazing business. I got a chance to take a look at the product, too. Very beautiful and elegant product.
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B
Thank you.
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C
Definitely different from the ones that we see at Walgreens.
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A
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, Trey, what do you think? I mean, if there's a product like this, you know, you want to get a celebrity involved because the idea is that they're going to, you know, help sales. What's the approach?
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C
The way I would look at it is who would be my ideal person, slash, partner for this? And because this is a very specific category, it has to be directly related to being part of that person's lifestyle, essentially. So one, you know, that's probably a narrow list, and being able to sort of, from that list, kind of look at, does the brand values align? Is there any sort of reputational risk? How many other partnerships do they. Do they have. And how have they performed in those other partnerships? And what type of commitment will they give to the brand? Because there's certain things that happen sort of in front of the camera, but a lot of times there's more important things that happen behind the camera, you know, so in terms of, are they going to meet with the head of sales for your largest distributor or show up at certain events that might not be publicized? But like, how can you get the most out of that partnership and create mutual value? You know, John Legend's a really good example of somebody who is a great partner for a brand. Not. And I'm not saying you're a specific brand. I'm just saying where John is a guy who, behind the scenes, John can meet with any president, CEO of any company and clearly articulate the vision of the company because he's done an incredible amount of diligence before even the first meeting. And so by the time he says yes, he's knowledgeable and a real commitment around it. And that's the type of partner that you would want.
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A
That's an interesting example of John Legend. Let me ask you a question on her. Do you have a specific celebrity or specific types of celebrities in mind that you'd want to work with?
- [11:23]
B
It's a tricky one. Like, I get it, because you need them to be sort of in that wellness space, I guess. I mean, I'd love Selena Gomez. She's definitely in that space. So people, you know, there's that sort of thing.
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C
One of the things that I would say, and, you know, when I look at, you know, we invested in a company called Thrive Market, and when they first started, they found mom influencers and health influencers.
- [11:48]
A
And you could hear the episode on How I Built this with Nick Green.
- [11:50]
C
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I love those guys. But what worked really well, and we've seen a lot of other companies replicate it, is when you. When you're dealing with social influencers, they are used to promoting things, and that is built into their lifestyle. With celebrities, a lot of times they're going to look at the contract and it's going to say, you got to make four social posts. You got to show up to an event. You got to, you know, it's very rigid, Right. So you want to make sure that whoever you're bringing into your company, they're going to do the work in terms of promoting a brand and. But also do things that live outside of the contract. But influencers, you know, they call them influencers for a reason. They have a lot of influence. And so if you can find ones that are super authentic to your cause, it could be a great marriage. And in that way, it doesn't have to be just one. You could figure out, okay, let me. Let me pick three or four people that I feel like I have brand alignment with and use that as a platform.
- [12:59]
A
Yeah. I want to throw out an idea for you, Honor, because I think one of the challenges right now is I'm thinking about who would. Who would endorse this product. Right. When you think about a pill case, you think about medication, Right. And medication is very personal. Right. If somebody's taking antidepressants or medication for, you know, heart issues, like, it's a very. People don't necessarily want to talk about that openly. But I think one of the things that is interesting is probably a lot of people using your product. They're using it for supplements. Fish oil or.
- [13:28]
C
That's exactly what I'm saying.
- [13:30]
A
Palmetto, or, you know, vitamins, multivitamins. The one thing I don't see on your site is a product that would appeal to men. This is still a very. It's beautiful. It's very feminine. And guys travel, and, you know, they might be taking creatine and vitamin D and vitamin multivitamin and fish oil and, you know, all these supplements. Right. And so to me, it seems like there's an opportunity to create a case for the male traveler, too, because I think a lot of people think of pill cases. They think of old people who are infirm and sick and they have dementia and they can't remember to take their medication. What you're doing is something different. It's like, hey, you're traveled traveler, you're dynamic, you're busy, you're on the road. And here's a great way to organize your supplements.
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C
And the thing is, too, Guy, whether you're taking supplements or you're taking medication, you don't want to seem like the senior citizen pulling out the case or whatever.
- [14:26]
A
Right.
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C
And when you think about, you know, the health influencers like Huberman and, like, you know, it's like people with really large followings that are also recommending these supplements or whatever, it seems like that would be a great partnership. So, like, great idea, Guy.
- [14:42]
A
Yeah, Yeah. I would look into that, and then I would start with micro influencers, people with, you know, 50,000 followers. They're cheaper. You can find people who've got their tribe and start there. But I would really think about positioning, creating another design that maybe might appeal to men or that's more active looking, in a sense. Does that make sense?
- [15:02]
B
Yeah, absolutely. No, no. We do get that feedback, like, where are the ones for the boys? It's just a slow process with molding and, you know, production, and we sell out all the time and we're just constantly trying to keep up. So it's just. It's one of those small business things where you just got money stuck in product on boats and in, you know, warehouses and all the rest of it.
- [15:24]
A
Also, one last thing I would try, which is. And I. And please, I hope I'm not encouraging listeners to do this. Please don't do it. But they'll do it anyway. I get sent a lot of stuff. Okay. My mailing address is on my website. It's public. I get sent endless amounts of stuff. I don't see it all and I appreciate. It's really nice. And when I can try it, I will. But I do think it's worth it. Identifying five or ten people that you do want to work with. Yeah. Selena Gomez. But maybe there are people who are not as high profile who don't receive that much stuff that you think could be interesting. Just send them one and send a handwritten note and say, hey, I admire you. I use this for my supplements. I know you travel a lot. You're on set and tell me what you think. You know, I'd love to partner with you or whatever. Just try that. It's not that hard to find them.
- [16:13]
C
And why is celebrity important to you?
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B
You know, I mean, I'm an Aussie, I'm in America and it's all about celebrity. It feels like here, I just presume that they have the influence and they have the power and they have the momentum behind them.
- [16:28]
A
They can sometimes. It depends, Troy. Right. I mean, you've seen them. We've seen a lot of celebrity brands that just fizzle out. But I do think what Troy said earlier about finding that person with the authentic connection to it, a belief in it is the key. Right, Troy?
- [16:42]
C
Yeah. You know, it's. Most celebrity partnerships don't work. The majority don't work. The other piece that I find is when celebrities invest, they're more committed.
- [16:58]
B
That's. Yeah, that. Because that would be good.
- [17:00]
C
So where it's not just this sort of one way transaction of you writing a check or, you know, or giving up equity, you know, but it's for them to have some skin in the game and really feel a part of it. You get more of a partnership out of it.
- [17:14]
B
Yeah, I just listened to Hexclad and they got Gordon Ramsay.
- [17:18]
A
They did.
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B
I mean.
- [17:21]
A
But it was hard, right? And it takes time and whoop bands, the wristbands, you know, Will Ahmed Send one to LeBron James trainer. Right. And so not to LeBron, but his trainer. So there, there are ways to do it. It doesn't always work, but it does often work for the celebrity, especially if they're paid money. Ask Larry David, who got $10 million to an FTX commercial. Honor Elliott. The brand is called Dozy. Congrats. Good luck.
- [17:47]
B
Thank you so much.
- [17:48]
A
Awesome, awesome product. Thanks for calling in.
- [17:50]
B
Thank you.
- [17:52]
A
I really actually appreciate that, what you said, Troy, that about celebrity partnerships, most of the time they don't work. And I think that is so true. And I. People put too much faith in the power of celebrity. And the power of celebrity is vastly diminished today than it was 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago.
- [18:11]
C
It is. And you can clearly see it through TikTok. Like people who can actually move product and move the needle is not what it used to be, where you could just put a famous face next to your product and people believe the famous face.
- [18:24]
A
Yeah. I mean, there are plenty of brands that just don't move, you know, they don't sell if the person connected to them is not seen as somebody who's important or interesting in that space. Right. If you have a product or a brand that is coming from somebody who really genuinely lives that way, it's different.
- [18:42]
C
Yep.
- [18:44]
A
We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, Joe Gebbia, co founder of Airbnb, joins me on the Advice Line. Stay with us. You are listening to a special mashup episode of the Advice Line on how I built this lab. I love traveling with my family. We did an awesome trip this summer and we discovered so many cool things. And one of the things that made the trip so special were the Airbnb experiences. We did immersive tours, cooking classes, a chance to get coffee with a world class barista, even a meetup with a renowned chef. I had so much fun on those experiences that I decided to host my own Airbnb original experience in San Francisco. It's called the Reinvention Lab, and it's designed to help you think about how to unlock your next big move in your career or even in your life. I'll help you discover your own story in ways I do on this show with my guests. And attendees will get a chance to take a deep, deeper dive with me on so many lessons I've learned from this show. Lessons that have transformed how I work and think about the future. So come join me in San Francisco and take your idea to the next level. To learn more about my Airbnb original experience, sign up for an Airbnb account and head to airbnb.com guy and I'm excited to see you there. Shopping for eggs should be simple. A happy hen makes a happy egg, and that's why eggs from Happy Egg are so delicious. Happy Egg partners with family farms across the Midwest to raise happy hens outdoors. The proof is inside the shell. A tasty orange yolk. It's the difference you can see and taste. I just made an incredible omelet with eggs from Happy Egg. It was delicious and so fresh. Once you crack open a happy egg and you can see and taste the difference right away, it's obvious. Visit www.happyegg.com built to find happy Egg near you Ever had one of those afternoons where your brain just quits on you? You're sluggish, hangry, maybe even a little foggy. What if it's your glucose? See, glucose is an energy currency for your mind and body. When it's stable, you're on point. When it crashes, so can you. That's why Lingo is so interesting. Lingo is a glucose wearable designed to help you connect the dots between your glucose and what you eat, how you move and how you feel. It shows your glucose data in real time. Instead of guessing, you see the impact of your choices. Maybe that healthy snack is actually sending your glucose on a roller coaster. Or that afternoon walk is the perfect stabilizer. It's about unlocking your consistent best all day long by truly understanding your body's unique responses. Get to know your glucose and learn about how to build healthy habits that work for you. With Lingo, designed for you by Abbott through November 30th. Use code GUY10 on hello lingo.com to get 10% off a lingo plan purchase one use per customer. This offer cannot be combined with other offers, US, Puerto Rico and UK only. The lingo glucose system is for users 18 years and older, not on insulin. It is not intended for diagnosis of diseases including diabetes. Individual responses may vary. Hey, welcome back to the advice line on How I Built this Lab. I'm Guy Raz so our next return guest is Joe Jebbia. He co founded Airbnb and Joe was one of our very first guests on the show back in 2016 and we'll put a link to that episode in the podcast description when Joe and his co founders, including Brian Chesky first launched Airbnb. It was a controversial idea. A lot of people thought, why would I ever open up my house to strangers from the Internet? But Joe and Brian and their other co founder Nate stuck with it and eventually Airbnb became one of the most legendary unicorns in Silicon Valley. Anyway, Joe came back onto the show to help our callers figure out what makes their businesses stand out from the rest. All right. Hello, caller. Welcome to the advice line. You are on with Joe Jebbia, co founder of Airbnb. Please tell us where you are calling from, the name of your business and a little bit about it.
- [23:23]
D
Hey, Guy and Joe, my name is RV Shongwe and I'm calling from Johannesburg, South Africa. I'm the founder of Perdub Optics, a company specializing in manufacturing outdoor and sporting optical products. Over the past few years, we've built a strong reputation in the safari and outdoor markets with partnerships in wildlife conservation and high end safari lodges. My question is about scaling my business. I'd like to get guidance on how to approach major retail players and of course, securing the necessary investment to expand into mass retail while staying true to our core values.
- [24:00]
A
Awesome. Arvi, welcome to the show, all the way from Johannesburg. Thank you for listening to the show and for calling in. Pro it up. Okay, tell me a little bit about what you sell. Like what are your main products?
- [24:11]
D
Binoculars, rangefinders for golf. You know, the safari and outdoor space is mostly binoculars, spotting scopes, which we supply to safari lodges throughout Africa.
- [24:23]
A
Got it. Okay, tell me a little bit about your background. What gave you this idea to start this kind of business?
- [24:28]
D
You know, funny enough, we started specifically on the golf side and we thought we'd build like a really, really big business, just particularly in golf. And what we got to learn very quickly is, you know, the market wasn't as big as we thought.
- [24:43]
A
For rangefinders.
- [24:44]
D
For rangefinders, that is. And you know, specifically in the southern hemisphere, because for a very long time those markets have been dominated by international brands. And having come to college to the US Each time I went back home, it was really hard to find specific batteries for these rangefinder devices. And I was like, wow. Well, this is very interesting. And that's kind of how I got into the space. And then obviously, like I said, we started in golf and we saw more opportunity on the outdoor side. And that's where Perdop Optics was born.
- [25:15]
A
And so you, I'm assuming you came to the US to play golf?
- [25:19]
D
Yes, yeah, I came on a golf scholarship from 2016 and and so, funny enough, this is such a massive full circle moment for me because, guy, I started listening to how I built this the first, basically the first year I moved to the U.S. oh, nice.
- [25:35]
A
Well, here you are. Now you're on it. Okay, well, so a couple questions, right? So you're looking to figure out how to scale, how to get into retail. And there's a lot to answer there. And I want to bring Joe, I want to bring in Joe Jebbia from Airbnb. Joe, questions for RV first.
- [25:51]
E
Well, rv, it's great to meet you and congratulations. I would ask a couple things, you know, relative to other things on the market. If you want to get into, say, the Northern hemisphere, what do you think your competitive advantages are?
- [26:04]
D
I think our biggest competitive advantage is the fact that we have a high quality product just at an affordable price. Right. We're not too far off from your top end brands in the market. And so definitely price point sets us apart. But I think a very important part of that is, you know, we're obsessed with Africa, we obsessed with travel. And I think a big part of that is, you know, we play a massive role in the conservation of wildlife. And I think that's really what sets us apart to any other optics player is not only do we speak the game of wildlife conservation, but we on the ground and we wanting to do it.
- [26:43]
A
Harvey, I'm curious because I'm looking at your website now and so your binoculars, the prices are in South African Rands, but I think they're roughly about $220 right now.
- [26:51]
D
That's correct.
- [26:52]
A
Roughly. So I mean, $221, right. Seems like a good value. But again, I don't know because there are binoculars that are probably 50 bucks and some that are $5,000. Sure. So how are you positioning or how can you position what you're selling to underscore the value proposition? Sure.
- [27:10]
D
We back all our products with a 10 year warranty. So regardless of the price point, we give you that peace of mind to know that, hey, if anything goes wrong with your optics, you send them back to us, no questions asked, we replace them or we actually, you know, repair them ourselves. And I think that's been a big thing. And like I said earlier, you know, the African market in sporting optics has been dominated by international brands for the long time, but they're dominated by distributing brands. Right. And what I mean by that is there's no actual brand presence in the country that these products are consumed. And I think where we had opportunity is to have that actual Presence. You know, we're very proud to be one of Africa's first ever sporting optics companies.
- [27:54]
E
I think that's a great value proposition. The durability and the robustness of your offering. I'm looking on the website right now and I was trying to find where that showed up. I see it. It's at the bottom, and it's the fourth FAQ down at the bottom of the front, the homepage. I think it's a super valuable, interesting part of why you'd buy from Pro It Up. You may want to bring that up higher on the webpage.
- [28:18]
D
Okay.
- [28:19]
A
Yeah. I mean, so there are a couple stories you're telling. You're telling a story about value, quality, guarantee. That's one story. And that's, you know, a good story to tell. And there are going to be a lot of businesses and brands that tell that story. But to me, the story that you're not telling here that I think you could really tell is something you just referred to, which is this is a South African brand. I mean, people come to South Africa and Tanzania and Kenya from around the world to go on safari, right. It's like people come to California and, well, in South Africa, too, to drink wine or France, right?
- [28:52]
D
Sure.
- [28:53]
A
So you want to drink French or South African or Californian wine when you're there. Right. So to me, there seems like there's an opportunity here to lean into, hey, this is an African brand. We know what you need on safari. And so I feel like that story isn't being told on here, Joe. You know what I mean?
- [29:13]
E
Joe, I completely agree. It's like you do have a point of view that another binoculars company that's not based there, they can't do it. That's actually a very unique selling point for you guys from a storytelling standpoint.
- [29:25]
A
Yeah. I mean, I feel like, you know, you asked about how do you expand into. Into retail or how do you grow an international footprint? I feel like you have a little work to do on really developing the brand. Especially if you're the only South African optics brand, binoculars, rangefinders. That, to me, just feels like a great opportunity to really lean into that. Maybe you kind of play around with a slight rebrand. Nothing too extensive, but a rebrand where you kind of work on a new logo. You really lean into this being a brand from South Africa.
- [30:01]
D
No, absolutely. I think that's absolutely valuable. And a big part of the story retelling is how obsessed we are with Africa, how obsessed we are with the outdoors.
- [30:11]
E
I think, guys, it brings up A great point. You have the credibility to claim your space as a South African company or African company. And specifically it's about safari, it's about enjoying wildlife. I think you can double down on that more. And I think the visuals and the way you present on the website right now, it's like the product is in the consumer's hand, which maybe is fine because they're the end consumer, but it's kind of like I want to see this in the hands of somebody who's in the bush all day and night. You know, somebody who's like a real. They've got mud on their hands and they've been sleeping in a tent for the last.
- [30:51]
A
I love that two weeks.
- [30:52]
E
And they choose your product because it has the durability, because they know if something breaks, they can send it back to you. It's got all the, you know, functionality they need in order to, to do what they need to do out in nature.
- [31:05]
A
I love that. Arvi, I'm going to give you one suggestion. Okay. Because you asked how do you get into retail outlets, expand internationally? I think it's a step by step. There's an episode, we did the show about Sunbum suntan lotion. It's a huge brand in America. It's one of the top 10 brands started by a guy named Tom Rinks. And Tom very deliberately started his brand. But what he did was initially he went to very few boutiques in Hawaii, to hotel gift shops and boutiques in Hawaii. And he only sold Sunbum there because he knew that tourists from around the world go to Waikiki beach and certain hotels in Hawaii. Particularly wealthier tourists from Asia and also wealthy tourists from the mainland US by exposing them to this brand there, they would bring it back with them. And that's how he could start to expand the brand. And of course, he did eventually sold the brand to SC Johnson for hundreds of millions of dollars. That could be an interesting model. You may already be doing this safari lodges. Are you selling the binoculars there in their gift shops? Are you selling them in hotels in South Africa? Are you in touch with adventure shops in Europe and in the United States? And I think that's really how you do it. You got to go step by step, very methodically before you can think about a bigger, more scaled plan. Right.
- [32:24]
D
So a big part of our model is going directly to the safari lodges. So we servicing currently over 100 safari lodges throughout Africa. Right, Great. And so I think our approach with that is we have a three prong approach. We put it on their vehicles, put it in their, in their rooms and then we also offer it in their queue shops. So we take you through this, you know, entire experience where you, you try it, you have it in front of you and you buy it.
- [32:49]
A
That's. And you know what, when you've got tourists like the Jebia family on safari, I'm serious, you got like people coming from around the world and see it, that's where you're going to start to see traction. Sure. Arvi, Good luck. The brand is called Pro it Up. We will be. We're cheering you on, man. Good luck.
- [33:05]
D
Thank you so much, Guy and appreciate you, Joe.
- [33:07]
E
Good luck, Arvi.
- [33:08]
D
Thank you.
- [33:09]
A
Awesome. Joe, I do not think you're a golfer. Have you been on safari before?
- [33:14]
E
I went on with safari in Kenya once.
- [33:16]
A
Pretty cool, right?
- [33:17]
E
It was unbelievable.
- [33:18]
A
Yeah, unbelievable.
- [33:19]
E
It was 6am and sure enough, you know, it's like there was a male lion crossing the road right in front of us. It was like one of the first sights that we saw. And yeah, it looked like he had had a long night. He was going home from a long.
- [33:34]
A
Night out, long amount of eating other animals. We're going to take another quick break, but when we come back, Sadie Lincoln, founder of Bar3, joins me right here on the Advice line. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to a special mashup episode of the Advice line on how I built this lab. The entrepreneurs I talk to always want to know what the future holds for business. Are rates rising or falling? Is inflation up or down? Maybe someday someone will invent a crystal ball. But until then, over 42,000 companies have future proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one Cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory and HR all into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. With real time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next. I talk to hundreds of entrepreneurs every year and I hear from so many of them how NetSuite by Oracle has transformed the way they work. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com bilt the guide is free to you at netsuite.com built netsuite.com bilt if you've shopped online, chances are you've bought from a business powered by Shopify. You know that purple shop pay button you see at checkout, the one that makes buy buying so incredibly easy? That's Shopify. And there's a reason so many businesses sell with it. Because Shopify doesn't just make amazing buying experiences for customers, they're also the experts in helping small businesses grow big. Stop seeing carts going abandoned and turn those sales into sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.combilt go to shopify.combilt shopify.combilt welcome back to the advice line on How I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. So our last return guest is Sadie Lincoln. And when Sadie came, when Sadie first came onto the show back in 2018, she told us about how she launched her Fitness Co. Barre 3. Sadie and her husband gave up what seemed like the perfect life and sold basically everything they owned to pursue this idea. And that bet worked out pretty well. Today There are over 200 Bar 3 studios across the US and if you want to hear that story, we will put a link to it in the show notes here on the advice line, Sadie reminded our callers that their customers can be their greatest strength. Not just because they buy their products, but also because they want to see the businesses they love succeed. Hello, welcome to the advice line. You are on with Sadie Lincoln.
- [37:05]
F
Hi Guy and Sadie. This is Captain Genevieve from Go Sail Partners. I'm a solo funded CEO and founder of a sailing company. We offer premium learn to sail vacations in two locations right now on the Caribbean, the Virgin Islands and western Montana, Flathead Lake.
- [37:23]
A
All right, well, thanks so much for calling in, Genevieve. So you are, you've got a company that teaches sailing on vacation. And tell me where you're calling from.
- [37:32]
F
I'm calling from Montana today.
- [37:34]
A
Montana. Okay. So you so you run a sailing business and is, I'm sorry to ask, is there sailing in Montana?
- [37:42]
F
I know that's a common question I get. And actually Montana has gorgeous sailing. It's a lake called Flathead and it's the largest lake west of the Mississippi. It's 27 miles long, 17 miles wide. We get great wind, it's clear, beautiful water. It's awesome.
- [38:01]
A
Who knew, right? Montana, the home of world class. All right, so you have a business where you basically offer learn to sail vacation packages and you can do it in Montana or in the Virgin Islands?
- [38:14]
F
Yep, yep. In the, the British, the US and the Spanish Virgin Islands. We offer week long live aboard sailing vacations for people who are looking to bareboat charter, you know, learn how to sail boats that are 40, 50ft long.
- [38:28]
A
Wow. And do you, do you own these boats?
- [38:30]
F
Well, I have one boat that I race pretty regularly and I've had boats in the past, but I've really learned the best policy is other people's boats. So I charter boats to use for the classes.
- [38:42]
A
You basically you've got boats that you lease in these places and then you've got people who you hire to then teach other people how to sail. Is that more or less your business?
- [38:53]
F
Yes, that's exactly what it is. We have eight captains that work for us and nine other fractional employees. And we will get a booking with someone who wants to go on a learn to sail vacation. And then we sign a captain and they go on the schedule trip and learn how to operate that vessel during a week long live aboard class.
- [39:14]
A
Got it. Okay. And tell us what your question is.
- [39:17]
F
My question's really for you, Sadie and Guy is how to grow and scale and let go. I feel like I'm getting to the point with sales where I need to hire someone, but it's a very highly technical and knowledge based sales position because of the sailing lingo, the places that we go, and getting the right person that can convey that. You know, right now one of our best salespeople is me because I say, hi, I'm Captain Genevieve. Let me help you plan your vacation.
- [39:49]
A
Got it. Okay, before we get to your question, Sadie, any thoughts? Questions?
- [39:53]
G
How many people are on your excursions when you go to learn to sail? Is it one on one, is it groups? And also what kind of person, what type of person?
- [40:03]
F
Most of the people who take courses are in three categories. One, we have families who are multi generation. So we have 70 year olds that are taking sailing lessons with 10 year olds. And that would be a kind of a private group and up to six to eight students during the week. And it's modified and customized to the age groups that are there. And then the second main group that we have are sailing couples. So people who want to, you know, sell their business, cash out, go buy a boat and go live on it. And then our third main group is single people who are, you know, in retirement mode and they want to spend some their, their retirement years sailing. And they are, let's say 55 to 75 and they want to come and learn on the boat, how to operate it, because they're planning to rent a boat of this size, bring their family for vacations, cruise around the Caribbean, that kind of thing.
- [40:57]
A
Got it. Okay. And. And are you looking to do less? I mean, are you looking to be less hands on with the business? Is that. Is that what you're doing, hoping to do? Is that your challenge?
- [41:06]
F
Well, as we're growing, I'm starting to just become overwhelmed with the volume of calls and communications and sales leads. And I want to make sure that everything's getting followed through the correct way so each customer gets the value, the quality, the connection. Because we certify about three to four hundred sailors a year. And it's just getting to be quite. And I'd like to expand in some other locations.
- [41:34]
G
Genevieve, as an experience share, there's some similarities, Right. Of your business and mine. I started out teaching bar three. I taught 19 classes a week.
- [41:44]
A
Wow.
- [41:45]
G
And I had that awkward moment where I was like, how do I pull out of this and hire people to help me? Because there was nobody else teaching Bar 3 or Bar in all of Portland. And so my first best team members were clients who loved the product, who learned the product with me, and enjoyed Bar 3 authentically, and came from a background of sales, operations, marketing, finance, those areas that I didn't have the time, nor really the desire to drill down into. So I pulled my first team right from my very first clients. So that's one suggestion, if you haven't already, is to really tap into all those people who have already experienced this with you. If they can't work for you, do they know someone who could? I'm guessing the kind of caliber a person who can take the time and resources to do something like that probably has a pretty strong Rolodex and community.
- [42:48]
F
I agree. I think that's good advice. I've actually thought about reaching out to other American sailing instructors that I've worked with in the past to see if they'd be interested in spending a little less time on the boats and maybe helping out with the sails.
- [43:03]
G
Well, I was actually wondering about not necessarily your instructors, but the people who are learning to sail with you, just even having a casual conversation with them on the boat and training your instructors to have this conversation with them. Hey, we're looking for a videographer to market our programs better. Do you happen to know someone who'd be interested in this?
- [43:20]
F
I agree. I think that that's a great idea. And I think we can definitely reach out to some of those.
- [43:26]
G
And they probably want you to be successful.
- [43:28]
F
Yes.
- [43:29]
G
They want you to keep going. They're rooting for you.
- [43:31]
F
Yes. They really do.
- [43:32]
G
Yeah, it's really cool. It's really special.
- [43:34]
A
And Genevieve, tell me, what's the sort of the broad ambition for, you know, like in five or ten years from now, what do you want? What do you want this to look like?
- [43:44]
F
I can see that we would be in five to 10 years in more locations. We've kind of put together a very succinct model that allows people of a lot of different age groups to be able to come and do these classes. So we have a trail that all of our students are typically going on. And I can see that this is a system that works and is differentiated from other sailing schools because the boats that other schools use are all older. They don't have as much communication, they don't have as much availability. They don't have as experienced of instructors. And so I've got a model of a franchise, potentially. That's what really inspired me about your story, Sadie. It was hiring your customers to then be instructors and then take on, you know, their own studio and their own space. And then in their own sailing community, they can really use the backbone and the foundation of what you developed in order to make it their own.
- [44:44]
B
Right.
- [44:44]
G
You have the template and you've proven it out as well.
- [44:48]
A
Yeah. Genevieve Evans. The brand is called Go Sail Virgin Islands. Congrats. Thanks so much for calling in.
- [44:53]
F
Thank you.
- [44:54]
A
Good luck.
- [44:54]
F
Bye.
- [44:57]
A
I could use a sailing vacation right now, Sadie.
- [45:00]
G
Let's do it.
- [45:03]
A
Hey, thanks so much for listening to this special mashup edition of the advice line on how I built this lab. And special thanks to Troy Carter of Atom Factory, Joe Jebbia of Airbnb and Sadie Lincoln of Bar3 for joining me on the show again. If you haven't heard their original episodes or their full episodes of Advice Line, you'll definitely want to check them out. We will put links to them in the show notes. By the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free@guyraz.com or on substack. And of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo at Hibtid or call us at 1-800-433-1298. Leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Noor Gill and Alex Chung, with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce. Our engineers were James Willits and Maggie Luthar. Our production staff also includes Casey Herman, Sam Paulson, Carla Estevez, Kerry Thompson, Katherine Cipher, Romel Wood, Neva Grant, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the advice line right here on How I Built this Lab. If you like How I Built this, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus and the Wondery App app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com survey as a designer, you know clients want it all. A stunning site that runs their business and scales with their success. But tight deadlines shouldn't mean compromising your vision.
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F
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A
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