Advice Line with Angie & Dan Bastian of Angie's BOOMCHICKAPOP

Summary

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Podcast Summary

How I Built This with Guy Raz: Advice Line with Angie & Dan Bastian of Angie's BOOMCHICKAPOP

Release Date: April 2, 2026
Host: Guy Raz
Guests: Angie and Dan Bastian, Co-founders of Angie's BOOMCHICKAPOP

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This "Advice Line" episode brings back Angie and Dan Bastian, the founders of Angie's BOOMCHICKAPOP, for a special call-in edition focused on answering live business questions from budding entrepreneurs. Drawing from their journey turning a family kettle corn stand into a multimillion-dollar brand, Angie and Dan offer practical, hard-won advice on fundraising, scaling, marketing, and staying true to business values. The tone is encouraging, relatable, and full of actionable insights, with Guy Raz guiding the conversation and highlighting leadership lessons.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life After BOOMCHICKAPOP – Angie & Dan’s Update

• [04:05–04:57]
  • Angie and Dan have moved on from daily operations. Angie has focused on nonprofit work (Prospera Foods in Nicaragua), and both mentor food startups.
  • They reflect on the toll the "20-hour days" took and advocate for more balanced entrepreneurship if they could do it again.

"We were the 20 hour a day workers, which was not healthy ... For us, it really did damage to us ... in every aspect of our lives."
— Dan Bastian [05:11]

2. Balancing Life & Business

• [05:34–07:26]
  • They urge founders to intentionally unplug and prioritize relationships, even if the business feels all-consuming.
  • The couple admit missing small but important moments—like having dinner without phones—because of startup pressure.

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Caller Advice Sessions

Caller 1: Michelle Pusateri, Nana Joe’s Granola

• [07:42–20:59]

Her Story:

• Founder of a growing, Bay Area-based organic granola company ($2.2M in sales, self-manufactured, dedicated to organic/regenerative principles).
• Main Challenge: Should she seek outside capital to scale, and how can she find values-aligned investors without compromising integrity?

Key Advice & Insights:

• Angie & Dan:
  • Both caution against rushing into the wrong investment relationship and suggest exploring loans, minority investments, or pooling multiple angel investors.
  • Encourage Michelle to clearly pitch her values—there are investors out there seeking exactly the qualities she embodies.
  • Michelle shares having walked from deals when asked to compromise on organic status.

“There are investors out there that want to invest in exactly the set of core values that you highlighted.”
— Angie Bastian [13:32]

• Guy Raz:
  • Suggests alternatives like bringing on an experienced advisor or partner with industry know-how to fast-track distribution and scale, offering the example of Justin’s Nut Butter.

“You are doing this the hard way. Have you thought about bringing on someone who’s exited in CPG to help clear a path for distribution?”
— Guy Raz [19:43]

Notable Quotes

• “It took us 10 years to kind of figure it out before we brought investment on.”
  — Dan Bastian [12:23]
• “You can run the company no different than when [a minority investor] came on.”
  — Dan Bastian [12:58]
• “You can't ever do this being certified organic, and I want to invest in you, but you have to go conventional ... That’s not my plan.”
  — Michelle Pusateri [14:15]

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Caller 2: Gloria Kolb, Elida (Elitone Device)

• [22:20–33:59]

Her Story:

• Founder of a women’s health device company (FDA-cleared, at-home pelvic floor stimulator for incontinence).
• Main Challenge: Sales plateaued as digital healthcare marketing costs spiked and stigma limited word-of-mouth; seeks authentic ways to grow WOM in a “taboo” space.

Key Advice & Insights:

• Angie:
  • Suggests reframing the device from "medical" to broader wellness (prevention, sexual health), and pushing exposure via community spaces (gyms, medispas, retreats).
  • Emphasizes stigma is best tackled by education, proximity, and visible leadership.

“Stigma is really about education and exposure ... What you gotta do is expose your product to a much larger target market.”
— Angie Bastian [26:16]

• Dan:

  • Encourages embracing the stigma openly through personal storytelling in digital channels, even if social media targeting now has limits.

• Guy:

  • Highlights the power of authentic founder storytelling—Gloria should lead as the public face, sharing her “why” widely.
  • Suggests seeking a celebrity partner willing to take equity and be public about their journey, like On’s partnership with Roger Federer.

“If you start to talk about it or think about reframing how you're talking about it with you front and center ... you're the best sales rep for this thing.”
— Guy Raz [32:13]

Notable Quotes

• “You are the influencer, you are the face of this. You are a mom ... and you have this incredible background.”
  — Guy Raz [30:31]
• “If you can find the right person who wants to be a partner with you, they can be worth more than millions.”
  — Dan Bastian [33:43]

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Caller 3: Eric Poulain, Maple Roux (Organic Maple Sports Nutrition)

• [34:56–48:48]

His Story:

• Sydney-based founder making organic, gluten-free energy products (gels, waffles) centered on Canadian maple syrup; $250k in early sales, seeing unexpected market breadth.
• Main Challenge: How to scale and differentiate against massive, well-funded competitors without losing core product trust and identity.

Key Advice & Insights:

• Dan:
  • Suggests focusing on local, community-based growth and leveraging grassroots, event-based demoing—mirroring BOOMCHICKAPOP’s own path.

“We were a total grassroots brand company early on ... we went to fairs, festivals, events to just get it into people's mouths.”
— Dan Bastian [38:17]

• Angie:
  • Points out the need for packaging that tells the product’s value instantly (“clean carbs,” glycemic index), especially as he moves into retail.
  • Packaging and retail shelf presence should be intuitive and uniform to communicate benefits when Eric can’t be there to hand-sell.

“When you make that transition to retail, have somebody just go put it on the shelf ... ask what they see.”
— Angie Bastian [43:23]

• Guy:
  • Emphasizes the importance of patience and organic growth—target a strong local base and D2C repeat sales before expanding internationally.

“You want to try to grow organically to at least 500k, ideally a million, before you even think about [going international].”
— Guy Raz [46:12]

Notable Quotes

• “If you have unlimited resources, you can move a lot quicker. But I think this idea of, like, locally, you have an opportunity to build it up, learn from your mistakes.”
  — Dan Bastian [47:21]
• “Your job as the leader and founder will be to teach those people how to represent your product the way you want ... That’s where entrepreneurs succeed.”
  — Angie Bastian [47:56]

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Final Reflections: Angie & Dan’s “Future Advice”

• [49:13–50:15]
  • Dan: Slow down, be less reactionary, and reflect before pursuing every opportunity—balance is key.
  • Angie: Remember you will survive; prioritize family and rituals outside of work, even in startup “survival mode.”

“Try not to be so reactionary. Be a little more forward thinking in the process.”
— Dan Bastian [49:13]

“Even though you're in survival mode, just put the phone down for an hour and have dinner and don't talk about work.”
— Angie Bastian [49:57]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “Everything but the minivan.” (On putting up their home as collateral)
  — Angie Bastian [51:20]

• Michelle Pusateri: Standing firm on organic values even when it means walking from investors [14:15].

• Gloria Kolb’s vulnerability about facing stigma and the extra weight of being a female founder in health tech [30:17].

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:05] Angie & Dan's post-exit update and life lessons
• [09:33] Michelle Pusateri shares Nana Joe’s Granola growth story
• [13:32] Angie & Dan on finding aligned investors
• [22:20] Gloria Kolb describes Elitone device and stigma challenges
• [26:16] Angie on fighting stigma with education and exposure
• [30:31] Guy’s advice: Gloria as her own influencer/advocate
• [34:56] Eric Poulain explains Maple Roux’s maple-fuel energy products journey
• [38:17] Dan & Angie on grassroots brand-building
• [43:23] Angie on packaging for retail success
• [46:12] Guy on organic growth before scaling internationally
• [49:13] Angie & Dan’s advice to their younger selves

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Tone and Language

The conversation is friendly, accessible, and candor-driven—advice is given with empathy and encouragement. Angie and Dan are authentic in acknowledging both the highs and lows, reinforcing that entrepreneurial success is neither easy nor fast. The call-in founders are earnest, and the overall mood is practical but optimistic.

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Summary Takeaways

1. Stay true to your values: Don’t compromise mission or product integrity for the sake of growth or funding; aligned investors do exist.
2. Founder self-care: Avoid sacrificing physical and emotional health with endless work—balance creates longevity.
3. Grassroots & local growth: Build community, demo in person, and only scale to mass markets when the foundation is solid.
4. Amplify founder stories: Especially in stigma-laden or niche categories, founder vulnerability and authenticity are effective sales tools.
5. Packaging matters: As retail grows, clear, instantly communicative packaging is key—distance from founder means it must “sell itself.”
6. Organic, patient scaling: Resist the temptation to do everything everywhere; dominate your local or initial market, then thoughtfully expand.

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Transcript

[Guy Raz]

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[Guy Raz]

Hello and welcome to the advice line on How I built this Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Leave us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like. Help. All right, let's get to it. Joining me today are Angie and Dan Bastian, co founders of Angie's Boom Chickapok Popcorn. Angie and Dan, welcome back to the show.

[Angie Bastian]

Thank you guys.

[Dan Bastian]

Thanks, Katie.

[Angie Bastian]

I'm happy to be back.

[Guy Raz]

We first met back in, I think it was 2019. We sat down in front of a live audience in St. Paul, Minnesota. So fun. You told us this crazy story about how you saw an online ad that said make thousands of dollars by popping kettle corn, which sounds so crazy. Angie, you were a nurse practitioner at the time. Dan, you were a high school teacher. You guys were looking to make some extra cash to put away for your kids college. And so you bought some kettle corn equipment and started selling in parking lots and Vikings games. And eventually, somehow this becomes a multimillion dollar business. It's an amazing story and for those of you listening who have not heard the original episode of Angie's Boom Chicka Pop, you've got gotta listen to it. It's so good. We'll put a link to it in the show notes. Anyway, it's been a while since you were last on the show. Angie, I think you were still involved with Boom Chica Pop at the time. And Dan, I think you had moved on from the brand. So Angie, what are you still working with the company? Tell me what's going on.

[Angie Bastian]

No, I'm not. Dan and I started getting involved in some of the things that we were passionate about. And one of those things was with a nonprofit in Nicaragua working with small shareholder farmers that were producing yuca. And the CEO there had this vision to create a production plant and to create a product, cassava flour. So he created something called Prospera Foods, which I chaired the board for about five years. And the funding is now flowing back through into the non for profit organization. And now I'm trying to learn how to retire.

[Dan Bastian]

You know, Ange and I, we're still mentoring a lot, mentoring startups, especially in the food industry. And you know, we kind of get to set our schedule, which has been great.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. You know, I'm wondering if you were to start Boom Chickapop again today. Right. Or any food brand. Right. Do you think you would have done it differently now if you had to start it again?

[Dan Bastian]

I think one of the things that Ange and I have talked about was, you know, we were the 20 hour a day workers, which was not healthy. It's just it's how I knew how to operate. Just the pedal down. Go, go, go. Make sure we are doing everything we can. You know, I'm not the smartest guy, and so I had to make up for it.

[Guy Raz]

Oftentimes you're really smart. I can't, no.

[Dan Bastian]

But my point being is some people can operate and work 10 hour days and accomplish maybe what I worked took 20 hours, days to do. And I kind of knew I could outwork most people and startups. And I think both Angie and I probably would have tried to spend more time with each other, taken a step back. For us, it really did damage to us in the sense of just physically our bodies and emotionally and all of that. And I think it's taken a long time for us to kind of get healthy again in every aspect of our lives. And so that's probably the biggest thing that we would have done differently.

[Guy Raz]

I really appreciate you saying that. I know we only had an hour and a half live on stage when we did the interview, because normally I'll interview people for longer and we edit it down, but I do remember you guys talking about that, that grind. And this is the thing. And I think it's really important to re emphasize this. I mean, we try and make sure people understand this when they hear our show. Building a business is really hard. It's very, very, very hard. This is not a get rich quick scheme show. This is a slow, steady grind kind of show. Good news is you guys are both young. You've got another, what, 40, maybe 50 years to live? I hope so, guy.

[Dan Bastian]

We got kids.

[Angie Bastian]

That would be a lot of time. I mean, we could have done a few small tweaks like Dan was talking about, like, just have a dinner together without the phone on the table, like, and just turn off the phone. But we just didn't feel we could turn off the phone. And honestly, one time when Dan did turn off the phone, one of our delivery vehicles got into an accident and they were trying to reach him. So, I mean, it's just. That's what business is.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, fair enough. All right, you guys ready to take our first caller?

[Dan Bastian]

Let's do it.

[Angie Bastian]

Sure, sure. Let's go.

[Guy Raz]

All right, let's bring our first caller. Hello, welcome to the advice line. You're on with the founders of Angie's Boob Chickapop, Angie and Dan Bastian. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

[Michelle Pusateri]

Hi, I'm Michelle Pusateri. I'm the founder of Nana Joe's Granola based in San Francisco, and we make epically delicious, certified organic granola and granola bars that have out of the ordinary flavor combination. I myself am a trained pastry chef, so that comes into play. And it's fresh out of the oven. Texture, flavor and crunch.

[Guy Raz]

Awesome. Welcome to the show. Michelle, I have seen your products because I'm here in California and I've seen them at Whole Foods. And you guys do like sort of paleo granolas, I think, and gluten free granolas, right? Am I right about that?

[Michelle Pusateri]

Yeah, you're totally right. So we do the paleo blends, which are bound together with almond butter. Nobody else is doing that. We're all certified organic and we also have oat blends. And that's how we started. It's kind of following the evolution of my diet.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, tell me how, tell me how long you guys have been around. When did this business start?

[Michelle Pusateri]

So I started in 2010 and in

[Guy Raz]

San Francisco, in the Bay Area.

[Michelle Pusateri]

In San Francisco, we actually built a manufacturing facility in the dog patch in San Francisco in 2012. So we self manufacture everything.

[Guy Raz]

So you make everything. And tell me where, where you guys are distributed now. Where is it available?

[Michelle Pusateri]

Yeah, mostly on the west coast, so all of California up in the Pacific Northwest and then some in Texas, so predominantly West Coast.

[Guy Raz]

Got it. And tell me a little bit about the business. How are you guys doing? And give me your sort of top line numbers.

[Michelle Pusateri]

Yeah, so we're doing well. I think we're doing well. We've grown every year. We're about $2.2 million since in sales. So sold a lot of bags of granola.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, I bet.

[Angie Bastian]

Yeah.

[Guy Raz]

And so most of your business is coming through these stores, the Whole Foods in California and then the other grocery stores, or is it most of it coming through the website?

[Michelle Pusateri]

It's 30% direct to consumer and then around 60, 65. 70% wholesale and custom label and retail.

[Guy Raz]

That's really good news. And you mentioned you're a pastry chef. So how did this idea come about? Were you just, you know, 10 years ago or so? Were you kind of like, I want to start my own thing?

[Michelle Pusateri]

Well, I had actually started surfing and I was going out trying to surf early mornings at Ocean beach and I was having coconut yogurt. I've been dairy free my whole life. And I'm also gluten free. I have celiac, I have colitis, so I really have a strict diet. And I was eating like granola that I had bought at the store that was gluten Free. And my coconut yogurt that I always made. And I was crashing out, and I was like, why am I crashing out mid surf session? This isn't fueling me at all. And so I took a look at the back of the granola bag, and in 2010, there wasn't this better for you movement. There wasn't a lot of natural alternatives to cane sugar, and they were packed with sugar. And I looked at it, and One serving had 12 grams of sugar.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Michelle Pusateri]

And I was like, oh. And then I was like, I'm a trained pastry chef. Why am I not making my own? So that's how it came about. And as the story goes, friends and family loved it.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. And 12 grams of sugar, but for most people is still not that much. Right. I think you guys have, what. How many grams of sugar do you average in your.

[Angie Bastian]

In your granola?

[Michelle Pusateri]

Three.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. So you're a tiny amount of sugar, and you're using, like, you're not using cane sugar. You're using, what, maple syrup?

[Michelle Pusateri]

We're actually using Farm Direct certified organic maple syrup. We get it from New York. And just, like, the flavor combinations and really using the ingredients to sweeten it, like, almond butter is naturally sweet, and just, like, the seeds and stuff like that can be sweet if they're toasted correctly.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. All right, before we get to bringing Angie and Dan, tell us a little bit about what challenges you're facing and what you're hoping to get help with.

[Michelle Pusateri]

Yeah. So I think after bootstrapping for 15 years, we're definitely at an inflection point. And how do we decide whether outside capital accelerates our mission or compromises it? And then on the turn, how do we find investors who strengthen the business without diluting our values? I think we're very. We're pro regenerative. We're pro keeping our organic certification, and we care a lot like Dan and Angie. We care about our people. We pay a livable wage in San Francisco. We just want to make sure that whoever we partner with is really looking at our mission and our values in the same light and the same eyes that we are.

[Guy Raz]

All right, cool. Angie, Dan, I want to bring you in. First of all, thoughts or questions or ideas for Michelle.

[Dan Bastian]

Well, congratulations, Michelle. It took us 10 years to kind of figure it out before we brought investment on. So we understand the grit and the grind that you've gone through and are continuing to go through for us. You know, we were in a position back in 2010 where we didn't really need investment, but we found A partner that we thought we could work with and that would enhance the opportunity for us to scale, because we knew we were at that point of scaling. And so, I mean, for you, it's a matter of, like, when you interview or talk to potential investors, your focus is, you know, you don't want to lose the mission of your brand, of your company, and you can make that decision. I mean, there are investors out there that might only want to do a minority investment with you, which you control. I mean, that's what happened with us with Sherbrooke Capital and 2011. They took a minority position, and we ran the company no different than when we did before they came on. Ang, you might have some other insight on that.

[Angie Bastian]

Yeah.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Angie Bastian]

Again, congratulations. It's not easy to get to 2.2. I mean, and to get through Covid. I mean, it's unbelievable. And have your own manufacturing. I just. Yay. Great job, Michelle. I just want to cheer you on for that.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Angie Bastian]

And, you know, I think a couple of things. There are investors out there that want to invest in exactly the set of core values that you highlighted for us. I mean, there are investment groups, institutional money, family offices, angel investors that feel the same way you do about what you value. And so the first question I have is, have you talked to anyone yet?

[Michelle Pusateri]

We have, actually. We've been in a couple of conversations over the years, three to be exact, where we got close to signing the paperwork, and it just. It didn't work. I think one of the things that they came back and said after everything was settled was, oh, I think that we're going to actually have to help you, because it was a strategic investor, help you a little bit more than we thought. So we're going to take more percentage. And this was, like, at the signing table. And in my mind, that was a red flag. And that was also like, okay, you know, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for everything. It's not going to be a right fit. And then another one kind of early on, when we were about the million dollar point was like, you can't ever do this, being certified organic, and I want to invest in you, but you have to go conventional. And I said, well, that's not my plan. I went conventional to certified organic, which is extremely rare, and something that I'm really, really proud of. And our product integrity and the way that we make our granola is one of those things that I won't compromise on.

[Dan Bastian]

Nor should you.

[Michelle Pusateri]

Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah. Michelle, I have a question for you have you thought about alternatives? Because I'm assuming you want more capital to come in to scale the brand, to increase distribution, to increase your direct to sales channel. Right? I mean you want more money for maybe for advertising, for example.

[Michelle Pusateri]

Definitely, yeah, for sure.

[Guy Raz]

So money or raising capital sounds like it's important to you. And do you have sort of a number in mind? I mean, is it a million, is it 2 million? Is it around that range? Is it more or less?

[Michelle Pusateri]

My thought is between a million and a million and a half. And every time I've talked to somebody who's got an investment, they're always like go higher. So I think 2 million is where we need to be at. I run everything. I do sales, marketing, I run the production facility. We have an operations manager and fulfillment. But I think for us to be able to scale the way that we want to scale, we need more people. So 2 million would allow us to hire on sales, hire marketing, spend some money on some marketing, which we've never done, and also be able to automate. And I think that's where we're at right now. We're confined with, you know, my ability to do more 20 hour day cloud.

[Guy Raz]

Have you explored loans?

[Michelle Pusateri]

Yeah, we have loans. So we have three working capital loans currently.

[Guy Raz]

Angie, Dan, I'm curious to get your thoughts on this idea because you know, you could try and get some institutional cash which could, listen in this market it could be tricky, right? Even though you guys are doing so well for many of those institutional investors, you're too small. But there are plenty of certainly where you are in the Bay Area, interesting angel investors who have invested in food brands in the Bay Area. There's flour and water, for example, which is doing quite well. What's your sense, Angie? Dan, do you think that the opportunity might be, and it's hard work, but might be going to, you know, 10 or 15 or 20 or even more angel investors writing $15,000 to $50,000 checks?

[Michelle Pusateri]

That's a great question.

[Angie Bastian]

I wouldn't eliminate any possibility for you if that's. If you're really looking at trying to grow. And the question I have is do you have visibility to a large scale sale or sales opportunities coming up? Do you have anything in your back pocket? Do you have something that's on the horizon that. Yes, that would be interesting for investors to, that you could demonstrate, hey, this is where we're going. This is the velocity of we need this cash to get a salesperson in place and some promotional and marketing dollars behind it. And we need to Hone our manufacturing?

[Dan Bastian]

Yeah, just. Michelle. We were in a very similar position. I mean, we financed everything on our own up until 10 million. I mean, we had loans and we had a lot of debt and we went, you know, really, I think around the 1 million mark is when we went to a bank and got financing to build out our plant. And that gave us the bandwidth to, you know, when we got tied in with Trader Joe's and Target and Costco, we kind of grew. And that opened the door for, you know, our private equity. Is there opportunity for you to go back to the bank. You know, you probably have some collateral within your plant where it gives you just another year, like Ange said, to get to a point where all of a sudden, you know, you find an opportunity within Target or Costco or any other big retailer that is going to open the doors and bring awareness to potential investors.

[Michelle Pusateri]

I mean, yeah, definitely, I could for sure. I think I still have a little bit of wiggle room, but I'll be 55 this year, and I'm kind of cognizant of how much debt I incur. Totally. Because we all know we don't pay ourselves what we should pay ourselves when we're founders. So I think that's something that's top of mind as well.

[Guy Raz]

I have a question for you, Michelle. I mean, you have a lot of experience. You've been in this business for 15 years. So you know the food business. I'm sure you've been to trade shows. I'm sure you know a lot of players in the business. I wonder whether, even with all of the things you bring to the table, is there a world where you bring someone on as an advisor or consultant who might be retired or looking for their next thing who may have exited? Like somebody who worked at Boom Chickapop. Right. Who was the executive there who's kind of looking for the next thing or. This was what Justin Gold did with Justin's nut Butter. He found somebody who recently left Izzy because izzy sold to PepsiCo and they were looking to do something interesting. And that person had, you know, they could just clear the path for distribution. They had relationships at Kroger and Albertsons everywhere. It's an interesting model. Have you explored anything like that?

[Michelle Pusateri]

I haven't. I have a few mentors that have helped me out along the way for sure. Actually immensely helped me out, but I haven't thought about that. I think that's. That's an excellent, excellent idea.

[Guy Raz]

Cool. The brand is called Nana Joe's Granola. Michelle Pisuteri thank you for calling and good luck. Keep us posted.

[Dan Bastian]

Good luck, Michelle.

[Angie Bastian]

Good luck.

[Dan Bastian]

Great to chat.

[Michelle Pusateri]

Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

Thank you so much. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz. Stick around. You're listening to the advice line on how I built this lab. When it comes to your health and well being, the right care can change everything. That's why Cleveland Clinic has been elevating world class patient care for over a century. From the most specialized heart, neurology and cancer treatments to the latest surgical innovations and beyond. Cleveland Clinic is here for every care in the world. Whether you're exploring advanced care or just looking after your health, all the info you need is waiting for [e-mail]. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking your calls with Angie and Dan Bastian of Angie's Boom Chickapopop. So you guys ready? What do you say? Should we bring in our next caller?

[Angie Bastian]

Let's do it.

[Dan Bastian]

Let's go.

[Guy Raz]

All right, let's bring in our next caller. Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Dan and Angie Bastian, co founders of Angie's Boom Chickapopop. Welcome to the show. Tell us your name, where you're calling from and a little bit about your business.

[Gloria Kolb]

Hello, my name is Gloria Kolb and I'm the co founder and CEO of Elida and we're based in Newtown, Connecticut. So we have Elitone, which is a wearable medical device that treats bladder leaks by strengthening the pelvic floor muscles externally. And essentially it's doing those Kegel exercises for you, but longer and stronger than you could on your own. And it gives women back their control and their confidence.

[Guy Raz]

Thank you so much for calling in, Gloria. Okay, so Elida is the company name and the brand. The product is called the Elitone. And forgive me, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm a 50 something year old man. So I need some help here. Explain what the product is and how it works.

[Gloria Kolb]

And yeah, yeah, so most people don't realize that it's such a big problem, but one out of two women over the age of 50 has some incontinence where if they sneeze, they exercise, they leak some urine and that's often due after childbirth. Just the pelvic floor muscles are weak.

[Guy Raz]

And so how does this product work?

[Gloria Kolb]

So it's electrical stimulation and it's placed Right on the perennial area. It's a very easy wearable, like a thin gel pad goes right on that area and then we have a tiny controller that sends the slide signal. And it's just very discreet because you could get dressed, walk around the house while you're getting a 20 minute treatment at home.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. So it's all like fits almost like a maxi pad. And tightened your. Right, your muscles. Right, Certain muscles. Right, is that you're talking about.

[Gloria Kolb]

Yeah, we're talking about tightening those muscles down there, strengthening and actually giving it a workout.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, I get it now. Thank you. I really appreciate you indulging me. So tell me how this started. What I mean, you must have a background in. In medicine or medical devices.

[Gloria Kolb]

I have worked in the healthcare industry and I have a biomedical engineering background. But it really was when I had a nine and a half pound baby girl and then 13 pounds of twins that I started to leak. And I was looking for something for myself and everything I saw on the market I didn't like, it was vaginal, which meant that you had to lie on your back, lock yourself in a bedroom with this device inside of you for 20 minutes and no busy mom has time for that. And as a biomedical engineer, my husband and I started the company and we figured we can do a better job.

[Guy Raz]

That's amazing. And tell me a little bit about how the business is doing.

[Gloria Kolb]

So it's doing well in that we got grant funding and so we've hadn't needed to raise a ton of money and we were growing. We launched right before COVID which meant that we had to pivot and go from the doctor's office is straight to direct to consumer. We were growing 100% year over year until last year. And last year was a little bit of a doozy. Digital healthcare marketing changed a lot and last year was a struggle.

[Guy Raz]

You just stalled. Sales just stalled.

[Gloria Kolb]

Yeah.

[Guy Raz]

All right, before we dive in further, tell us what your question is for us. I think I know what it is, but please. Yeah.

[Gloria Kolb]

So. Well, due to all the changes in the digital marketing, our cost of acquisition has changed, skyrocketed. And so we are looking for other ways to bring consumers awareness. And so one of the things we are looking for is referral programs, affiliate programs, but all of the things we've tried doesn't take off because women hesitate to publicly associate themselves with this condition. So how do you create authentic word of mouth growth in a category that's embarrassing?

[Guy Raz]

Wow, this is such a fascinating question because I think this has the potential to be A massive, massive business. Right, Angie, Dan, please jump in. Questions, Thoughts? Ideas for Gloria?

[Angie Bastian]

Okay, I want to jump right in because I'm really excited about Gloria and the product that you created, because.

[Gloria Kolb]

Thank you.

[Angie Bastian]

Because I think your question hits right at the heart of stigma. You've got two problems. One is you're in a new product, new category. It's not surgery, it's not physical therapy, and it's not internal vaginal treatment. And so how do you sell in a new category with a new innovative product? That's the first question. The second question that is attached to that is how do you overcome stigma? And stigma is really about education and exposure, proximity, distance to a product. And I know you have FDA approval and you're over the counter, so your access isn't limited in a sense, but I don't know if there are any regulations around it. But where it sends me is, like, what you gotta do is expose your product to a much larger target market instead of seeing it just like a medical piece of equipment. I think it's parallel to sort of continuous glucose monitoring. It's parallel to the sleep ring. Like, those two sort of medical devices are in mass markets, and you can buy them on Amazon. I really do think that there is a human health movement where there are women who aren't yet identified with a diagnosis of urinary incontinence, but they are interested in prevention. They are interested in strengthening their pelvic floor muscles. And maybe it's not for the purpose of urinary incontinence. Maybe this product also helps with sexual function and experience. And that in itself, I would say, hey, get it into Medispas and women's retreat clinics. I'm curious about how you've thought about this.

[Gloria Kolb]

Yeah, so our end game is to be acquired by a medical device company. However, we have been told by a lot of these strategics that if you go down that sexual route, and yes, a lot of people do buy for that reason, but they are not going to be interested in us as an acquisition. So we have to be very careful about that. But, yes, people do buy our product for strengthening and for lots of different reasons. We've also been very cautious about where we go on. For example, on Amazon, we haven't fully put our product there because there's so many competitors that are vaginal or whatever, but they're not fda. And so they make all sorts of claims that as a medical device, yeah, we could try to compete with them, but I don't know if we want to go there.

[Guy Raz]

Before I jump in, Dan, do you have any thoughts or things you want to add?

[Dan Bastian]

Yeah, I mean, my first initial thought and just hearing what Ange is saying and what you're saying, you know, is to embrace the stigma, kind of. And going full at the digital marketing piece, whether it's yourself or others, someone else that can really kind of lay it out and do the video and whether it's TikTok or, you know, Insta or wherever that you can. And maybe you've already done this.

[Gloria Kolb]

We have tried. And so that's what, like in 2024 we were profitable, but in 2025, when Meta stopped us from targeting, it became unprofitable.

[Angie Bastian]

Well, can I just say, what that calls for is boots on the ground, right? Like in the gyms, in yoga studios, in medi spas, in places where women are. That you have direct contact with them. Is that possible?

[Gloria Kolb]

So I guess I go back to that. We haven't raised a lot of funding,

[Angie Bastian]

so we don't have a lot of

[Gloria Kolb]

people to do that.

[Dan Bastian]

Is that intentional, Gloria, that you don't wanna.

[Gloria Kolb]

No, that wasn't intentional. It's just we're in. A female founder gets no money and then Women's Health get 2% of all healthcare funding. So I've tried, I've been trying to raise money these last five years. It's just been really hard.

[Guy Raz]

I have some thoughts for you. I think all of these ideas are great ideas. I have a thought for you about how you are telling your story. So I'm looking at your website, Gloria, and we've been talking about this now for a few minutes and you've got to go deep into the website to find out about you here on the website. I found out that you have an engineering degree from MIT and Stanford and that you have this incredible background in developing these products and you are a user of this product, presumably? Yes, I believe you. You are the influencer, you are the face of this. You are a mom. Your story of having a 9 pound baby and then 13 pound twins that you told us here, you've got to go deep into your website to find that. And I feel like that's got to be the story from the beginning, right? I was recently in Chicago and I saw Serena Williams doing ads for GLP1s, right? And so it would be great if you could find a woman over 45 who's willing to partner with you and who's prominent to talk about this publicly. And maybe that could be a strategy. Find a strategic partner who's sort of a celebrity and respected and could be public. But in the meantime, you're that person. So I think that the challenge. One of the challenges. People are not gonna like these posts on Instagram. They're not gonna tag people or share it publicly. But if you start to talk about it or think about reframing how you're talking about it with you front and center, right? And then you're gonna talk about your story on every podcast you can get on every newsletter you can get on any, like, substacks that deal with menopause or. That's really where I think you're gonna find your audience, because you're the best sales rep for this thing.

[Gloria Kolb]

That's so good. I've been told that before, but I just feel like I have no time. I'm already spending those 80 hours.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, well, you gotta do it. You have got to be out there.

[Michelle Pusateri]

I know.

[Gloria Kolb]

That's true.

[Angie Bastian]

That's true, Guy. What you're saying is that if it comes to. From her, she's also fighting that stigma. She's also. You're doing it.

[Gloria Kolb]

Yeah.

[Guy Raz]

I want to go back to this. You know, it's a bit of a risk, but you're sort of at an inflection point where you've got this opportunity. If you can find the right person who really wants to partner with you, who has some prominence and is willing to be in addition to you, the face of this thing. You know, I think about. On shoes. Right? On shoes. It really took off Once Roger Federer joined that brand and made a very significant strategic investment. He didn't want to just be a quiet investor. He wanted to become the face of the brand, and it really helped to supercharge that brand. It's one of the biggest running shoe brands in the world now. That's where I think there's an opportunity. If you can find somebody who's like, yeah, I'm in. I can partner with you and, you know, get some equity in this brand.

[Gloria Kolb]

So you would give equity.

[Guy Raz]

Right?

[Gloria Kolb]

Because I. I always thought it took millions of dollars to. To get one of those influencers.

[Guy Raz]

If you can find the right person who wants to be a partner with, you know, get some equity in this

[Dan Bastian]

thing, it'll be worth more than millions.

[Guy Raz]

Many more. Much more.

[Gloria Kolb]

That's true.

[Dan Bastian]

Yeah.

[Michelle Pusateri]

Yeah.

[Gloria Kolb]

Okay.

[Guy Raz]

All right.

[Gloria Kolb]

Well taken.

[Guy Raz]

It's a great idea. Elida is the. The name of the company. Elatone is a product. Gloria Kolb, the. Thank you so much for calling in. Good luck.

[Dan Bastian]

Good luck. Thank you so much.

[Gloria Kolb]

Thank you, everyone.

[Angie Bastian]

Good Luck.

[Guy Raz]

All right, we're going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller and another round of advice. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and my guests today are Angie and Dan Bastian, co founders of Angie's Boom Chickapop popcorn. And we're taking your calls. You guys ready for another call?

[Angie Bastian]

We are so ready.

[Dan Bastian]

Let's do it.

[Guy Raz]

All right, let's bring in our next caller. Welcome to the advice line. You're on with the co founders of Angie's Boom Chickapop. Tell us your name, where you're calling from and a little bit about your business.

[Eric Poulain]

Thanks, Guy. Great to be here. My name is Eric Poulain. I'm based in Sydney, Australia, so down under. And along with my wife, I co founded an organic gluten free sports nutrition company called Maple Roux. Our products are designed for endurance athletes to anyone who wants to stay active. And now we're seeing strong interest from even the corporate world and the healthcare workers having to do long shifts who want natural energy without stomach issues.

[Guy Raz]

Awesome, Eric, thanks for calling in. All right, so tell us exactly what kinds of products you make. What are you selling?

[Eric Poulain]

Yeah, so energy gels, energy waffles, energy drink mix, and also what's called gummies or chewies, all natural, are all gluten

[Guy Raz]

free and all made with maple syrup or from maple syrup.

[Eric Poulain]

Yeah, hence the name Maple Roux. So all the research was done in Australia with a local university. We really wanted to do our research. So for two years we spent time researching the product, testing the product, and then the Maple is our partnership with maple from Canada. So we combined both to come up with Maple Roux as our name.

[Guy Raz]

Got so energy products with maple syrup or maple sugar as a center. Why maple? Tell me about what you found.

[Eric Poulain]

The story is I'm a very active person. I've done a lot of Ironmans in my life and marathons. And after one Ironman, I collapsed. I completely passed out. And my wife took a picture of me and she said to me the next day, I never want you to do that again. And she was really worried about me. And what I realized is it's not that I wasn't trained properly, it's that I didn't fuel properly. So I really found out the hard way of if you don't fuel properly, you could be in Real trouble. So we did didn't my research and I found out that maple syrup was actually a fuel that's easy to digest. And so I tried it to a point that I even qualified for world championship in the Ironman. So it worked for me. And that's when we said we have to do something, we have to bring this to the market. Australians see maple syrup as a syrup for their pancakes. So it's been an educational ride, but the feedback has been very impressive.

[Guy Raz]

Awesome. All right, before we dive in further, what's your question for us?

[Eric Poulain]

So even if it's our first year of sales, we've seen some meaningful traction and strong customer response. The market is broader than what we anticipated. Like I said, we thought this would be for endurance athletes, but now we're seeing that corporation are asking us for more information. Even hospitals and healthcare, we've got a bigger target audience than what we expected. But the reality is we are competing against massive, well funded brands. So the question is, how do we scale in a category dominated by massive brands without compromising the product that got us here and people trust.

[Guy Raz]

Got it. Okay. And just before I forget, how much did you guys do in sales last year?

[Eric Poulain]

So now this year, just even after first year, we're looking at about a quarter million in forecast.

[Guy Raz]

Amazing. And mostly direct to consumer or 80% direct to consumers.

[Eric Poulain]

And we're now slowly adding some retailers and hopefully have our Trader Joe moment. Like Dan and Angie.

[Angie Bastian]

Right.

[Guy Raz]

All right, Dan, Angie, I want to bring you in with some thoughts or questions or ideas for Eric.

[Dan Bastian]

Well, I mean, Eric, congratulations. Sounds like you found a solution to a major problem kind of in your world of competing. It sounds familiar to us. You know, we were a total grassroots brand company early on. I mean, we went to fairs, we went to festivals, we went to events to just get it into people's mouths. And you know, it sounds like you're involved with triathlons, running clubs, different endurance events and stuff like that. How we did it and what's familiar to us and I don't know if you've tackled it this way, is we were really local. Like we were local in the state and just organically grew out and you know, it sounds like Australia. You know, there's that opportunity to tap into people who kind of live their lives like you do. Have you focused on that?

[Eric Poulain]

Yes, absolutely. So that's a great point. So we decided to really stay local, focus on local events from run clubs to swim clubs. And that was our focus. It's interesting what you said, Dan, because I am getting some messages from international companies. It seems that people want to bring our products to different countries. And it's that challenge as a startup to say, do we just stay local? But then you also want to grow. And, you know, you've got New Zealand, you've got Singapore, other countries calling us. But what we decided to do is do local events for the next six to eight months. We've got over 15 events that we're going to be going, my wife and myself. But other athletes that tried our products, they are now offering to come to these events with us because they really believe in the products.

[Dan Bastian]

And where are you manufacturing your product?

[Eric Poulain]

We manufacture our products in North America and then we ship them to Australia.

[Angie Bastian]

So I think that plays a role in how you grow intelligently because the freight in itself could usurp any profits. You know, if you're shipping all over the world, if you're manufacturing in North America, are you selling in North America as well?

[Dan Bastian]

Yeah.

[Eric Poulain]

So right now we really want to focus in Australia because that was our key market. The reality is maple syrup is produced, and the one we're using is organic Canadian maple syrup. So we had to decide, do we ship the maple syrup and manufacture in Australia? And then it was better for us from a financial standpoint to do all the manufacturing in Canada, all the research in Australia, and then sell in Australia to start. So we did look at all the options. Like I said, we're in our first year, three years if you count the research. So we're always looking at our options right now to see what would be better for us.

[Guy Raz]

It's interesting because kind bars in their first year were made in Australia and sold in North America. And that really. That was really tough because it was really expensive. But I would imagine that shipping maple syrup is more expensive than shipping the finished product is heavier. I'm looking at your packaging, which is really nice. Got the maple leaf on it, and it's a nice logo. But when I go to your website, I'm learning more about what this does. And, you know, if you look at a product like RXBar, what really helped make that product take off was the macros. You know, it's like. Or the simple ingredients. And a lot of these brands now are saying, you know, 20 grams of protein, 3 grams of carbs, 0 grams of sugar on the front of the package. And it tells me something very simple, very quick. And I wonder if there's a way to kind of, you know, even. I'm looking at your website here. It says slow Burning energy, that's interesting to me. Right? Or you know, clean carbs or you know, the glycemic index or something that signals to, especially to a specialty athlete, that this is going to give you fuel for a long time. Right. Because maple syrup, it's interesting, it's a little weird, it's odd, Right? And that actually is your advantage. It's not a synthetic product, it's not lab grown, it's from a tree. And so it could really work to your advantage if you are able to in very short, simple, maybe just slow burning energy, just a few quick things right on the front of the package.

[Eric Poulain]

Yeah, no, that's a great point. The number one question we get when we go to events is always how much carbs in your product? And we're lucky to have 25 to 30 grams depending on the product and made from two ingredients, usually salt and maple syrup. So I'm trying to educate people. It's not the number of carbs, it's how many products do you need in order to hit those carbs. So you're right, guy, that's a great point. We should highlight that.

[Guy Raz]

Just on the thing, quick absorption, whatever. If you're running and you're starting to chomp one of these down and you know it's going to get in your bloodstream within a few minutes, tell me that on the package.

[Angie Bastian]

I'm so glad you brought up the packaging guide because I did go to your website too. And just a small piece of advice is there is a little bit of a difference when you hand the product to someone at a site in person because you can explain it to them, but when you go into retail, you're depending on that package to really explain it because you won't be there. And the other thing that you want to have happen as you go into retail is that that when someone looks at your product on shelf, they know all your products are from the same place, the same company. Like the brand architecture looks the same on each package so that there isn't confusion. What you want to do is keep it as simple and clean as possible. And this is something it took us years to figure out how to do. But when you make that transition to retail, have somebody just go put it on the shelf. Like ask somebody that's never seen your product before to tell you what they see when it's on shelf somewhere. No matter if it's in a nutritional store or you know, a sports specialty store, you want somebody that doesn't know your product to look at it. And Give you feedback about what they see.

[Eric Poulain]

Yeah, no, that's great feedback because I think that's the biggest challenge we have is if I'm in front of someone, usually I could convince them and they try it and they love it, but I can't be everywhere.

[Angie Bastian]

Well, and I think your question was about how do you scale and maintain your authenticity? Right. And that part of it is as you go into retail, what you're doing is bringing yourself, your passion, your authenticity as a founder into the buyer's office. And you're communicating to the buyer, just like you're communicating to us, like why this product is so important. And you're getting them excited about what they can offer their customers. And that's a little bit of a different proposition than direct to consumer. As you begin to work through retail, if that's the direction you end up going at some point, and then once they bring it in, you've got a third party endorser of your product and then it's your job to make sure that it looks unbelievable on their shelf and that you're communicating clearly to the consumer that's their customer.

[Eric Poulain]

Yeah. And you know, we just signed up about 20 retailers over the last couple of months and it's 100% repeat business that they've come back and ordered more. So I think if we listen to some of the suggestions you've made and improve our packaging, that we could grow definitely from a retail perspective.

[Guy Raz]

I also think when it comes to expanding outside of Australia right now, you know, you're small, 160k, it's great, it's impressive. But you want to try to grow organically to at least 500k, ideally a million. Before you even think about that, you want to maximize those D2C subscriptions, you want to maximize that repeat purchase, you want to get into those specialty stores that you're working on, really deepen the community relationship and presence at that point. Once you start to see 500, okay, a million in sales, that's when I think you have an opportunity to really think about going outside, going beyond going to Singapore or going to, you know, Southeast Asia, and then. And then maybe beyond.

[Eric Poulain]

Yeah, no, that, that's great. And we want to grow organically, but I think as an intrapreneurs, and I'm sure others listening to me, you know, we want to go fast. Right? Because we, you know, we get a, you get an email from somebody in another country that love our products, that they tried it at a marathon, and you want to say yes to everything. And I Think that's the biggest challenge. And I have to listen to what you just said, guy, is just to really focus, hit a certain number, and then move on.

[Dan Bastian]

I mean, Eric, a couple things. I mean, going fast. We didn't focus on going fast until we were in our millions, like even 10 million. It was all about kind of building the base and doing it right and getting customers and taking kind of a step at a time. I mean, if you have unlimited resources, you can move a lot quicker. But I think this idea of, like, locally, you have an opportunity to build it up, learn from your mistakes, and then kind of, you know, make some decisions about expansion.

[Angie Bastian]

I'm just going to challenge you, too, as you grow. And it sounds like you're going to grow because you've got a unique product. And when you begin hiring people to represent you, your job as the leader and founder of the company will be to teach those people how to represent your product the way that you want and that they have your voice in their ear when they go out to represent the mission, the vision, the passion, all of it. And that's where entrepreneurs succeed, is when they're able to relay that kind of passion and everything that I can feel from you.

[Eric Poulain]

That's a great point. Yes.

[Guy Raz]

The brand is called Maple Rue. Eric Poulain, thank you so much for calling in. Good luck.

[Eric Poulain]

Thank you very much.

[Dan Bastian]

Good luck, Eric.

[Angie Bastian]

Good luck.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, guys, thank you so much for all this amazing advice. Before I let you go, I want to ask you both the same question, which is if you could go back to when you were first starting this business, you could say, hey, I'm coming from the future. I'm going to tell you, I'm going to give you some advice. What do you think you would tell yourself back then that you now know?

[Dan Bastian]

I mean, I think for me, try not to be so reactionary. Be a little more forward thinking in the process. Like I said before, there's benefits and reacting on everything. But I think, you know, with entrepreneurs, it's like oftentimes you're either you're paralyzed or you're moving nonstop in and finding that balance between, okay, opportunity is here. Go at it, strategize a little bit. I mean, I think taking some time, slowing down a bit, and identifying kind of what the best options are for you at that given moment would have been beneficial for me in particular.

[Guy Raz]

All right, Angie.

[Angie Bastian]

Well, I'd say, yes, you're in survival mode, but you're gonna survive and it's gonna be okay. On the other side of it, and maybe even though you're in survival mode, just put the phone down for an hour and have dinner and don't talk about work with your family and your kids.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, I use, I've talked about this before. I use this device called the brick. I break my phone and I cannot use it. I gotta go physically back and scan it to try. It's really helpful for me. Angie and Dan Bastian, thank you guys so much for coming back on the show.

[Angie Bastian]

You're welcome. Thanks for having us.

[Guy Raz]

It's been great having you. That's Angie and Dan Bastian, co founders of Angie's Boom Chicka Pop. And by the way, if you haven't heard the episode we did with them, it's so good, it's funny, it's just awesome. Check it out. Incredible story. We're put going to put a link to it in the show notes and here's one of my favorite moments from that episode. You went to a bunch of banks and what did they say? Were they eager to lend you the money? No, you went to bank after bank and they just said what some were

[Dan Bastian]

more open to discussing than others. And you know, we eventually found a partner that worked with us and lent us the money.

[Guy Raz]

And what did you have to what kind of collateral did you have to buy? You said you had no collateral.

[Dan Bastian]

So, you know, probably receivables and personal guarantees. Personal guarantees, yeah.

[Angie Bastian]

Which was our home y future earnings, Everything but the minivan.

[Guy Raz]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for [e-mail] or on substack. And of course, if you are watching working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo@hibtid wondery.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298. Leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Nour Gill with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Sina Lofredo. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Casey Herman, Kerry Thompson, Chris Masini, Kathryn Cipher, Rommel Wood, Sam Paulson, Neva Grant, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.