How I Built This with Guy Raz

Episode: Advice Line with Bobbi Brown of Jones Road Beauty
Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Guy Raz
Guest: Bobbi Brown (Founder, Bobbi Brown Cosmetics & Jones Road Beauty)

Episode Overview

This “Advice Line” episode of How I Built This features legendary beauty entrepreneur Bobbi Brown, who returns to the show to help answer real-world business questions from callers at various entrepreneurial stages. The episode delves into Bobbi’s own journey—her reinvention post non-compete with Estée Lauder and the foundation of Jones Road Beauty—and draws out her honest, pragmatic advice for founders. Guy and Bobbi tackle challenges ranging from scaling a niche orthopedic product, to the pitfalls and opportunities facing a thriving custom phone case business, to launching a new oral care brand. The conversation is rich with practical takeaways, lively exchanges, and candid discussions on risk, growth, and authenticity in entrepreneurship.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Bobbi Brown’s Entrepreneurial Rebirth (03:48–09:57)

• Starting Over After a Major Exit:
  After her 25-year non-compete with Estée Lauder expired in 2020, Bobbi Brown launched Jones Road Beauty, driven by a desire to improve “clean” makeup textures she found lacking in the marketplace.

• The Drive to Create:
  Bobbi describes her creative compulsion—not building Jones Road wasn’t really an option. At age 62, she felt renewed and energized to do things “completely different the second time.”

• Staying Authentic and Scrappy:
  She emphasizes directness and efficiency: “I don’t like to waste money, I don’t like to waste time or energy, and I like to figure out what is worth my time and energy and how to do things without spending a ton.” (07:28, Bobbi Brown)

• On Trends Versus Staying Power:
  Bobbi reflects on the “nude makeup” aesthetic she pioneered:

  “You’ve got to pay attention to what you have and make sure it’s the best...Sometimes you have to make little fixes and sometimes you have to make big fixes but you always have to make sure that it’s the best thing on the market…” (09:17, Bobbi Brown)

Caller #1: Mark Sokolowski — Scaling a Niche Orthopedic Product (10:09–18:23)

Background

Mark, an orthopedic surgeon in Chicago, created Cab Dab, a muscle and joint rub using natural cabbage leaf extract, based on traditional remedies shared by his predominantly immigrant patient base.

Key Challenges

• Organic, profitable growth through direct distribution to patients (30,000 tubes sold, no advertising)
• How to scale beyond his personal network/“doctor-to-patient” model

Advice Highlights

PR and Scrappy Marketing:

• Bobbi: “There’s this little teeny thing called PR. It’s old fashioned, it’s free. Someone writes about you in the Chicago Tribune...your phone’s ringing off the hook.” (13:04)
• Guy: Consider hiring a local PR firm or a resourceful intern for multi-tasked marketing.

Product Sampling:

• Bobbi: Suggests smaller sample sizes (“Go to the Container Store and buy a bunch of empty containers...just make little samples...then just keep them in your pocket.” 15:33)
• Guy: Target distribution through adjacent channels—chiropractors, physical therapy offices, and chiropractors as trusted practitioners.

Scaling While Time-Constrained:

• Bobbi: “How can you get things done while you’re actually at work?...you have someone to do that...there’s no rush for this to take off. It’s going to happen especially the more people that know about it.” (17:07)

Memorable Exchange

• Guy (playful): “I want to take a cabbage bath right now…I woke up with some lower back pain from doing exercise last night.” (17:46)

Caller #2: Abby Rosalie — Breaking Out of the Handmade Custom Phone Case Plateau (21:48–34:52)

Background

Abby, a 23-year-old entrepreneur from Dallas, started Abbey Rose, an online custom phone case business (over $2M total sales since her teenage years). Most growth has come via live social media (especially TikTok, 400K+ followers), with fulfillment handled by family members.

Current Hurdles

• All sales stem from Abby’s live presentations—if she’s offline, sales flatline.
• Question: Should she keep doubling down on content/live selling, or look to wholesale or paid advertising to grow faster?

Advice Highlights

Don’t Over-Fetishize Explosive Growth:

• Bobbi: “Not everything has to be like a rocket ship...if things are so explosive...how are we going to anniversary that?” (26:23)
• Focus on sustainable growth and incremental improvements, not chasing viral moments.

Delegating and Scaling Your “Face”:

• Guy: “You can’t scale you, right? But maybe you can…can you feature other faces of Abbey Rose? Can you bring in other people and train them...?” (29:30)
• Bobbi: “Try it once and just do it once. See if you like it, see if it works.” (29:47)

Diversify Channels Mindfully:

• Bobbi warns of the costs and logistics headaches in retail (“It’s really tough, it’s really expensive”), but suggests experimenting with pop-ups or retail incubator programs at Target or Walmart (28:36).

Leverage Community:

• Abby’s main customers turn out to be a broader range—including stay-at-home moms seeking community via lives.
• Bobbi: “Keep building your community.” (31:08)

Memorable Moment

• Bobbi (excited about product innovation): “I love the phone that holds the three lip glosses...we’re launching some new lip glosses next year. That’s my dream.” (31:08)

Caller #3: Henry Davis — Rebranding and Growing a Niche Oral Care Brand (37:40–49:38)

Background

Henry, from Charlotte, NC, is co-founder of Tannin Oral Care, makers of a natural, post-coffee mouth rinse formulated to address common oral issues after drinking coffee.

Main Question

• Tannin is known locally as the coffee mouth rinse; how to reposition as a long-term, wellness-oriented oral care brand with legacy potential? Should they expand away from the “coffee” niche?

Advice Highlights

Evolving Beyond the Niche:

• Bobbi: “Doing the coffee thing is really cool and different but I think there’s an opportunity to expand that...reimagine the packaging and marketing. We’ve learned that even if you’re not a coffee drinker...you could use this.” (43:01)

• Guy: “This is a cool product, it’s very niche right now...but there are limits to how big you can take that.” (43:38)

Clarify and Celebrate Ingredients:

• Guy: “I want to know what’s in this and why is this better for me than Listerine, and what does it taste like?...Could you do a version of [ingredients transparency] like an RX bar?” (46:08)

Target a Community (“Tribe”) First:

• Guy: “Maybe it is young men like you...try and appeal to that group and build from that group...a lot like RX Bar did with CrossFit.” (47:09)
• Bobbi: Suggests partnerships with gyms and dentist offices to build early credibility and usage.

Candid on the Oral Care Space:

• Bobbi: “He’s got to look at the competition...there are a lot of clean mouthwashes on the market...it’s good to know what's out there and position yourself away—differently.” (49:38)

Memorable Exchange

• Bobbi (on business patience): “Don’t jump into something but just try it...dip your toes...grow your business first.” (48:42)

Notable Quotes

• Bobbi Brown (on reinventing herself):

  “I was sixty-two years old when I started this brand; I’m sixty-eight. I love that. So it’s invigorating to go back to the simple things…by the way, Guy, I love being in charge.” (06:55)

• Bobbi Brown (on the entrepreneur’s journey):

  “You look at what you’re doing...You always have to make sure it’s the best thing on the market so people will come back for it...but you need new things so people are interested. So it's just kind of figuring out the whole ecosystem.” (09:17)

• Mark Sokolowski, on organic product validation:

  “I don’t know anything about marketing so I just give it for free at the end of every visit...If it works, great...so we’ve just kind of grown this organically; no advertising.” (12:03)

• Abby Rosalie, on live-driven sales:

  “If I’m not online, like, sales aren’t coming in...My presence has to constantly be online for sales to keep going.” (27:37)

• Henry Davis, on product development:

  “We ordered a chemistry set off Amazon and I would meet with my high school chemistry teacher and just start mixing...what do you want in a mouthwash that’s as effective as possible?” (40:51)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:48–09:57: Bobbi Brown’s story—launching Jones Road after her non-compete; philosophy of reinvention, risk, and authenticity
• 10:09–18:23: Mark Sokolowski’s challenge—scaling “Cab Dab” from doctor’s office to public; advice on low-cost PR and scrappy sampling
• 21:48–34:52: Abby Rosalie’s challenge—scaling a handmade, live-driven custom phone case business; advice on delegation, community, and channel diversity
• 37:40–49:38: Henry Davis’ challenge—pivoting Tannin Oral Care from a niche “post-coffee” rinse to a mainstream wellness brand; ingredients transparency and finding a “tribe”
• 50:10–50:29: Bobbi’s parting wisdom to her younger self: “She should learn to breathe...shut off your brain sometimes and learn to recover.”
• 50:46–51:19: Throwback to a favorite moment—Bobbi on the importance of staying close to the details.

Final Thoughts & Tone

The episode balances inspiration with practical wisdom—the tone is supportive, direct, and energetic, mirroring both Guy Raz’s enthusiasm and Bobbi Brown’s no-nonsense, self-assured approach. Listeners will hear frank exchanges about the messiness of entrepreneurship, the value of experimentation, and the need for both patience and evolution in building a lasting business.