Advice Line with Curt Richardson of OtterBox

Summary

Podcast Summary: How I Built This with Guy Raz – Advice Line with Curt Richardson of OtterBox

Release Date: July 23, 2026
Host: Guy Raz
Guest: Curt Richardson (Founder, OtterBox & Blue Ocean Enterprises)

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Overview

This Advice Line episode of How I Built This features a return visit from Curt Richardson, founder of OtterBox and Blue Ocean Enterprises, who shares hard-won entrepreneurial insights and practical advice. Guy and Curt take calls from three founders wrestling with how to scale or reboot their businesses—including live event entertainment, fairy tale-inspired teas, and a circular-economy baby gear startup. Packed with candid mentorship, tactical tips, and memorable founder stories, the episode is a trove of actionable strategies for business growth, resilience, and reinvention.

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Main Themes and Purpose

• Scaling Beyond Yourself: How to scale businesses where the founder’s personal charisma or touch is central to the product.
• Regaining Momentum: Tactics for rebuilding a business after a hiatus or personal setback.
• Smart Growth and Marketing: Strategies for experimenting with and selecting the best marketing channels in a crowded or slow-conversion market.
• Lessons in Focus and Delegation: Reflections from Curt Richardson on transitioning from scrappy founder to effective leader, and on the power of focus and iteration.

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Key Discussion Points, Calls, and Insights

1. Curt Richardson’s Entrepreneurial Evolution

Timestamps: 03:38–07:37

• Curt reflects on exiting day-to-day leadership at OtterBox (“I was out or getting out of running day to day by then, which was something I desired.” – Curt, 03:57).
• Discusses the importance and challenges of hiring the right CEO and building a strong executive team.
• Shares insight on adapting as the market matured, emphasizing profit over mere revenue growth:

  “The market has shrunk. People don’t buy phones as often. So as far as overall revenue, we’ve dropped. But as far as overall profit, we’ve come up. So for Otter, it was all about getting better at what we do.”
  — Curt Richardson, 04:50

• On innovation: Not just about new products, but how you do the business itself:

  “The innovation isn’t always in the product. The innovation is very much so in the business.”
  — Curt Richardson, 06:44

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2. Advice Call #1: Mr. Game Show Florida – Scaling Live Events

Guest: Andy Jeremiah
Timestamps: 07:58–14:53

Business: Live game show events for gated communities in Florida; wants to expand model nationwide via content licensing.

Core Discussion:

• Scaling challenge: Can you replicate the founders' charisma and energy?
• Guy Raz’s key insight:

  “I would argue that you are the product, that you and Tracy are the product… So the challenge is, how do you scale Andy and Tracy?” (11:27)

• Practical suggestion: Run an experiment—train a new host in another market (like Tampa), give them your playbooks, and observe if the experience translates and customer happiness holds up.
• Franchising/licensing model comparison:

  “This is the whole Zumba model…you have to pay a license fee. That’s the value. So maybe…you start to build this out thinking, alright, can we make Mr. Game Show that thing?” (13:38)

• Curt’s candid take:

  “I’m kind of stumped by this. Just because I’m such a product guy…Can he duplicate himself? Can he sell that?...That’s a great experiment.” (13:07)

Memorable Quote:

“The innovation isn’t always in the product. The innovation is very much so in the business. How do I do this business right in the right way?”
— Curt Richardson, 06:44

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3. Advice Call #2: Gilded Coach Teas – Rebooting a Fairy Tale Tea Brand

Guest: Marissa Valenzuela
Timestamps: 19:08–29:22

Business: Fairy tale-inspired loose leaf teas; seeking to recapture sales after a yearlong hiatus post-childbirth.

Core Discussion:

• Unique brand proposition: Teas and blends inspired by global fairy tales, with storytelling at the heart of the product.
• Challenge: How to regain momentum and restart growth.
• Curt’s advice—act like you are starting from scratch, and double down on storytelling and direct-to-consumer (DTC) sales:

  “The nice thing is you’ve got product and I love your story. I think story is huge. You’ve got lots of opportunity with social media with this brand.” (22:26) “If you can go D2C, you’re gonna make so much more money for your efforts. I just…love D2C.” (23:00)

• Guy’s advice: Put less pressure on rapid growth after life events; focus on consistency, customer reactivation, and retention rather than costly new customer acquisition:

  “I don’t think enough businesses focus on customer retention. That’s really where…a lot of times, that’s where the sweet spot is, because that doesn’t cost much at all.” (25:13)

• Ideas for expansion: Offer a full experience—children’s tea sets, party packages, or upsells tied to the fairy tale theme (princess outfits, books, crumpets).

Memorable Quotes:

“Focus is so important. We focus on phone cases and mobile accessories.”
— Curt Richardson, 07:03

“There’s so much potential for storytelling here…you’re already telling stories in the tea.”
— Guy Raz, 26:38

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4. Advice Call #3: Everloop – Circular Economy for Baby Gear

Guest: Vince Giudice
Timestamps: 32:55–44:11

Business: Sustainable baby gear (high chairs, bouncers) from recycled materials, with 20% buyback offer—aims for zero waste.

Core Discussion:

• Problem: How to market higher-consideration products in a space where purchases are often months after initial discovery (baby registries).
• Vince’s question: Should I experiment across many channels (TikTok, Meta, Pinterest), or go deep on one?
• Curt’s tactical answer—experiment widely at low cost, then double-down on what works:

  “I would shoot BBs until I hit something. And then when I hit it, I’d kick up to a .22 caliber. And when it really took off, I’d go .50 mag…Don’t throw all your money down one hole at once.” (36:41)

• Guy’s nuanced perspective: Don’t over-spread—focus on understanding your core customer first, even calling them directly, before placing channel bets:

  “I think…founders don’t spend as much time as they should…getting obsessed with who is actually buying your product.” (38:23) “I would really shout [the buyback program] from the rafters… make that the core right now of what you are doing.” (43:00)

• Curt suggests a philanthropic twist—donate gently-used buybacks to families in need, integrating it into the brand’s story.

Memorable Quotes:

“Let other people talk about [your product]. It has more credibility than you anyway.”
— Curt Richardson, 37:55

“That buyback is just very meaningful. We got you. You’re never going to have to deal with, like, what to do with this thing when you’re done.”
— Guy Raz, 41:51

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5. Curt Richardson’s Founders’ Wisdom

Timestamps: 44:14–45:57

• On what he wishes he knew early on:

  “For me to wrestle with the question, what do you want?…Many times it doesn’t have to do with the business. It has to do with the heart, not the head. And I think it’s important that you discover that for yourself and let that be your guiding light.” (44:36)

• Importance of continuous learning:

  “You can learn so much on YouTube and podcasts like this… I learned that way from watching and listening, hearing other people’s stories, learning from other people’s mistakes and successes.” (45:09)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On business focus and learning from failure:

  “We did coolers, we did clothing, all of which we don’t do anymore. Focus is so important…The innovation isn’t always in the product. The innovation is very much so in the business.”
  — Curt Richardson, 06:44–07:03

• On customer experience as your product:

  “I would argue that you are the product…So the challenge is, how do you scale Andy and Tracy?”
  — Guy Raz, 11:27

• On finding what works in marketing:

  “I would shoot BBs until I hit something…Don’t throw all your money down one hole at once.”
  — Curt Richardson, 36:41

• Curt’s favorite Otterbox moment:
  Early skepticism about $49.95 iPhone case:

  “So he said, but we’ll do a test. So they did a test…they all sold out. They sold like crazy…We’re going, oh, crap.”
  — Curt Richardson, 46:34–46:59

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Curt Richardson’s Otterbox Reflection: 03:38–07:37
• Advice Call #1 (Mr. Game Show Florida): 07:58–14:53
• Advice Call #2 (Gilded Coach Teas): 19:08–29:22
• Advice Call #3 (Everloop): 32:55–44:11
• Curt’s Founders’ Wisdom: 44:14–45:57
• Favorite Otterbox Anecdote: 46:14–46:59

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Tone and Style

The episode maintains a warm, sincere, and practical tone, with Guy’s trademark curiosity and empathy. Curt’s advice is direct, no-nonsense, and rooted in deep experience, frequently blending humility (“I’m kind of stumped by this…”) with actionable wisdom. The energy between host and guest is supportive and collaborative, giving listeners both inspiration and concrete steps for moving forward.

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Takeaways for Entrepreneurs

• Don’t ignore the business model—sometimes innovation is in process, not product.
• If your ‘magic’ is personal, test whether you can replicate it before scaling.
• Customer retention is often a lower-cost, higher-impact lever than chasing new customers.
• Test broadly before doubling down in marketing, but always know who your customer really is.
• Clarity of personal and business goals is as important as any tactical move.

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This episode is a masterclass for founders seeking to scale, pivot, or restart, delivered with candor and encouragement from two world-class entrepreneurial minds.

Transcript

[Guy Raz]

Before we get into the episode, thanks to our presenting sponsor, Anthropic, they make Claude an AI built for the problems that take real thinking, research, strategy planning and making sense of a lot of moving pieces. Give it a try for the next thing you can't quite stop turning over in your head for problems worth solving. Get started with Claude at Claude AI hibt. Seeing your business idea come to life is exciting, but it's also incredibly complex. But Shopify can make it simple. They provide all the tools you need to launch from day one. If you're nervous about building a website, Shopify's templates and AI tools will get you up and running with no coding needed. If you hit a wall in the setup process, Shopify's built in AI Assistant Sidekick can help you build, troubleshoot and keep on moving. And when customers arrive, boom. Shopify checkout means more people actually buy and can checkout with just one click. With Shopify to handle setup and checkout, you have more time to focus on growing your business. That's why Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide. From household names like Gymshark and Mattel to businesses that are just getting started. All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest. Start your free [e-mail] that's shopify.combilt.shopify.combilt when it comes to your health and well being, the right care can change everything. That's why Cleveland Clinic has been elevating world class patient care for over a century. From the most specialized heart, neurology and cancer treatments to the latest surgical innovations and beyond. Cleveland Clinic is here for every care in the world. Whether you're exploring advanced care or just looking after your health or all the info you need is waiting for [e-mail]. Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-4 Leave us a 1 minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Otterbox founder Kurt Richardson. Kurt was first on the show back in 2019 and if you missed that episode and you want to go back and listen? We will drop a link to it in our episode. Show notes. Kurt grew up in a tiny mountain town in southern Colorado. And when he was just 21, Kurt bought his own small plastics company. And for years he had a really rough time of it until he came across a book called the E Myth, which helped him understand what truly matters at the core. And this insight eventually led Curt to build Otter Products, which started out as small waterproof boxes for outdoor enthusiasts. And when the iPhone exploded in popularity, Otterbox was in place to become the dominant phone case brand in the US growing the company from 5 to $575 million in just five years. Fast forward to today, Kurt is no longer longer the CEO, but he's now the company's chief Visionary officer and we are so happy to have him back on the show. Kurt, welcome back to How I Built this.

[Kurt Richardson]

Oh, thank you for having me. I remember when we met in Denver, it was a great time.

[Guy Raz]

We did, we did a live show together. It was super fun. When you were on that show back in 2019, what did you think the next sort of five years would look like? And of course, what eventually actually happened?

[Kurt Richardson]

I was out or getting out of running day to day by then, which was something I desired. I think any entrepreneur many times hits a size of a business where it's like, okay, this is beyond my skills. I'm great at startup, but this has turned in operational.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Kurt Richardson]

So went through a number of CEOs in the meantime. Learned some hard lessons there. And we've got a great CEO and great executive team now in place at Otter and seeing some great benefits from it.

[Guy Raz]

Initially, Otterbox was known as the protective case. Like if you dropped a phone from a building, you knew it was gonna be fine. Now you know you've got a whole range of products out there. I mean, when you are sort of the top brand, what does growth look like? Like, how do you, how do you innovate? How do you get bigger? Or is that even. Doesn't even matter.

[Kurt Richardson]

Well, we've been around 30 years, so for us it really is listening to the customer, watching the market. A lot of things have changed and continue to evolve in the marketplace, although we've really become a commodity. So, you know, when we grew, we went clear up to 1.1 billion in revenue and the market has shrunk. People don't buy phones as often. So as far as overall revenue, we've dropped. But as far as overall profit, we've come up. So for Otter, it was all about getting better at what we do and, you know, how we sell the product, whether it's D2C, whether it's through distribution. You don't always have to be first to be there, but when you get there, you need to be very present.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, Kurt, I remember we spoke about this a little bit, but one of the other things that you're focused on is this sort of other business that you started called Blue Ocean Enterprises, really focusing on investing in businesses that are designed to stimulate the economy and engage the community. You know, I. I hear from a lot of startup founders who are trying to build the next sort of interesting or cool consumer brand or consumer product. And often I'll say, you know, the businesses that are consistently successful in. In, at least in the US Are the ones you don't hear about. The sort of. The boring. I hate to use that word, but the sort of. The boring businesses. Right, that. That actually provide goods and services that that many industries need. Right. And really, Otterbox kind of started out that way. I mean, you weren't making. You know, it evolved into what it is today. If you were starting Otterbox today, right, with no brand and no distribution and no capital, really, could you still build it in the same way, or would you have to do it differently, do you think?

[Kurt Richardson]

I don't know that I would have to do it differently. Would I do it differently? Well, sure, I'd love to have the kind of capital to. To really just hit it hard. But you know what? There's a lot to be learned from bootstrapping it. There's a lot to be learned from having to do stuff the hard way. I think it makes you a better business person. It also makes you looking like, how do I do this differently? The innovation isn't always in the product. The innovation is very much so in the business. How do I do this business right in the right way? And I think that's a huge question that a lot of people never ask. They're always looking for the next new product, and we've done that. We did coolers, we did clothing, all of which we don't do anymore. Focus is so important. We focus on phone cases and mobile accessories.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Well, Kurt, we asked you to come onto the show to help us do what was one of the things that you really love doing, which is mentoring. And we've got some callers waiting for advice with some questions. You ready to take our first call?

[Kurt Richardson]

Sure.

[Guy Raz]

All right, let's bring on our first caller. Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Kurt Richardson, founder of Otterbox. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business, please.

[Andy Jeremiah]

Hello, Guy. Hello, Kurt. This is Andy Jeremiah in Sarasota, Florida. My wife Tracy and I founded Mr. Game Show Florida in 2020. We conduct live game show events in the many gated communities in the area. Our mission is to have everybody play a game at least once a week. So we offer free print and play games and game night ideas on our website as well.

[Guy Raz]

All right, thanks for calling in, andy. Okay, so, Mr. Game Show. So tell me you convene game nights. Tell me specifically what you do.

[Andy Jeremiah]

So our primary business is putting on live game show events. So communities here are always looking for something to put on their calendar. So we offer music bingo, a twist on Family Feud, a twist on the Wheel of Fortune. The unique part about our games is that we're very scalable, from 12 to 200 people, and we just make sure everybody has a ton of fun.

[Guy Raz]

And these are retirement communities, I'm assuming, right? Mainly, yeah.

[Andy Jeremiah]

I mean, most of them are definitely 50 plus, but yeah, there are some family communities now in this area as well.

[Guy Raz]

Got it. Okay, cool. And how long have you been doing this?

[Andy Jeremiah]

We started in 2020 out of COVID Our community was looking for games and we just started doing music bingo in the parking lot. It went so well, I started offering it to other nearby communities and things took off from there.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. And tell me, how many events do you do a year, roughly?

[Andy Jeremiah]

We average about 10 events a month. As a side hustle, we did just over 50k last year. All through word of mouth, no advertising, no social media.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, and what does an event cost?

[Andy Jeremiah]

We start at 350 for a 90 minute event, and it'll go a little bit more if we have to travel farther than the little radius that we like to stay in.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, so pretty relatively affordable even for an events budget at a community center. Okay, exactly. Before we dive in further, what's your question for us?

[Andy Jeremiah]

So we'd like to scale Mr. Game show nationwide by providing our content to others who want to start their own local game show business. It's relatively low cost to start. We have great unique content. We have a twist on a lot of popular, familiar games. We just want to get that material out to more folks, and we're just looking for a good pathway to get there.

[Guy Raz]

All right, Kurt Richardson, I'll bring you in here. Andy's got this business. They're hosting games, trying to figure out how to scale this, how to make this a Bigger brand or bigger business?

[Kurt Richardson]

Yeah, Scalability, big question. And a tough one when it's so dependent on you. There's a lot of different ways to go here. Maybe it's an app kind of thing that they can buy into and you're giving them new content all the time. Maybe it's a video play, it's a training tool, it's a kit somebody buys. Maybe it's a subscription based deal. That could be one way to go about it. To me it seems like you've got to create a lot of content. So I guess, are you technical enough to be able to do that on your own? Can you, you and your wife put together that where that's sellable?

[Andy Jeremiah]

We have, I mean, I was a former corporate trainer, so I'm great at developing documentation. And so we have a lot of, you know, for example, our trivia game, we have over 26 sets, you know, unique sets, you're ready to go, which I think are easy for other folks to kind of grab and, you know, promote themselves in their local market.

[Guy Raz]

Andy, I have a question for you. What do you. If I say to you, hey, what's your product? What are you selling? What's your answer?

[Andy Jeremiah]

Fun. We're selling fun.

[Guy Raz]

Fun. Okay. I would argue, I would argue, and I can tell by just talking to you here, and I haven't been there, I would argue that you are the product, that you and Tracy are the product. Because it's not just music, bingo. It's what you're bringing to it, the charisma and the excitement, probably the way you host, probably the way you write questions or jokes, you know, making sure that people have a great experience. And so the challenge is, how do you scale Andy and Tracy? Right. We had a question about similar to this in a recent advice line episode from somebody who had a training business and was trying to figure out how to scale that. And my advice to them is the same I would give to you, which is you may want to start with an experiment. So where in Florida are you?

[Andy Jeremiah]

Sarasota area.

[Guy Raz]

Sarasota.

[Kurt Richardson]

Okay.

[Guy Raz]

So you're not too far from Tampa, is that right? Okay, so maybe find somebody in Tampa that you can train, that you can give them your materials and let them run a few events and maybe show up and take notes and see what happens, see if customers are just as happy. And that's where you start to get the answer. Can this scale? Can I create material that I can license and build actually a business that is a Mr. Game show branded or certified host, you know, down, down the line. Anyway, that's my initial thought, Kurt. Sorry, back to you.

[Kurt Richardson]

I did. That was great. Because I was kind. I'm honestly, I'm kind of stumped by this. Just because I'm such a product guy and this is a product and you're right. And he's the product.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Kurt Richardson]

Can he duplicate himself? Can he sell that? I mean, that's, that's the question. And that's a great experiment. I think that's one of the. Probably a couple different ways for you to go, yeah, this is doable. Or eh, maybe not. Maybe it's just. Maybe I'm just gonna keep doing this and make my 50 to 75,000 a year and be good with it.

[Guy Raz]

Now, you did say something interesting about your background, Andy. You said you were in corporate training at some point, correct?

[Andy Jeremiah]

Yes.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, that's great. So you know what it means to build scripts and to build content and a playbook and write rules and all of the systems. So knowing that if you can find compelling, exciting people, theoretically, this could work. You know, this is the whole Zumba model. In Zumba, you pay a license fee to be a Zumba instructor. Anybody could kind of replicate a Zumba like class, but to actually be a Zumba certified instructor to get that, you know, on your, you know, on your title, when you're trying to advertise a course, you've got to pay a license fee. That's, that's the value. So maybe, you know, you start to build this out thinking, all right, can we make Mr. Game show that thing, you know, oh, it's a Mr. Game show host. We, we want this person in our retirement community. But I think I would start with identifying somebody who's interested in doing this who you think you could train and see what happens.

[Andy Jeremiah]

Great advice. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks for the many words of wisdom. And Guy, thank you for all the inspiration you give entrepreneurs.

[Guy Raz]

Thank you.

[Andy Jeremiah]

And Kurt, thank you for the great role model that you've been to entrepreneurs as well. Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

You bet you are, Kurt. In fact, all the work that you've done in building a sustainable company and also building a community of employees who really benefit from what you've done and what you've been doing.

[Kurt Richardson]

Well, thank you.

[Guy Raz]

I echo that. Thank you. Thanks, Andy.

[Kurt Richardson]

Thanks, Andy.

[Guy Raz]

We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab. Our Presenting sponsor today is Anthropic, the team behind Claude. I've been using Claude when I'm prepping for interviews, and it's become one of those tools that helps me get out of the messy middle faster. I can be looking at a founder's timeline, trying to understand what happened when, which early decisions mattered, what the real turning points were, and where the story actually starts. And instead of just giving me a quick summary, Claude helps me work through the material and find the thread, the thing that connects where someone started to where they ended up. And that's what I love about it. Claude doesn't just give me answers, it helps me think through the problem and organize what I already know and get to better questions. Claude is the AI for minds that don't don't stop at good enough. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. And now with Cowork, you can use Claude to help with the operational work that piles up, too. Point it at a folder on your computer or connect tools like Google Drive, Gmail, and Slack. Describe what you need, and it can help organize files, build spreadsheets, draft reports from scattered notes, and queue up tasks so you can come back to finished work. So whether you're in deep research, prepping for a conversation, thinking through strategy, or just trying to hand off the busy work that slows everything down, Claude helps you keep moving for problems worth solving. Get started with Claude at Claude AI HIBT Every day, shareholders meet to discuss

[Kurt Richardson]

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[Guy Raz]

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[Kurt Richardson]

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[Marissa Valenzuela]

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[Guy Raz]

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[Vince Giudice]

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[Kurt Richardson]

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[Vince Giudice]

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[Guy Raz]

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[Kurt Richardson]

All right, I'm excited to talk.

[Guy Raz]

Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Hi, I'm Marissa Valenzuela. I'm calling from Tampa, Florida, and I am the founder and lead fairy godmother of Gilded Coach Tees, where we create enchanted teas inspired by fairy tales from all around the world.

[Guy Raz]

Awesome. Welcome to the show, Marissa. So Gilded Coach teas, you sell loose leaf teas in bags.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

They're in like canisters. I have two sizes. So I have canisters, like a three ounce size and a one and a half ounce bag.

[Guy Raz]

And these are cardboard canisters?

[Marissa Valenzuela]

The canisters, yes.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, cool. And tell me. I love tea. I'm a big tea drinker. I've lately gotten into this really intense Chinese black tea that is, man, it gives me a big hit of caffeine in the morning because I switched from coffee. I gave up coffee beginning of this year. I love it. But tea just, I just, it's really my jam now. So what, tell me about your teas. Like, if I was like, all right, Marisa, why should I buy your teas?

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Well, you should buy our teas if you are someone who happens to enjoy magic and nostalgia. So we have blends inspired by Cinderella. In fact, the first blend I ever came up with was called Once Upon a Time, and it is a hazelnut black tea with French vanilla creme as well. It's hazelnut because in the original Grin's fairy tale, there's no fairy godmother. There's a hazel tree that Cinderella sort of cries to and it grants her wishes. So I like to go back to the original fairy tale and base each blend off of that.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. I'm looking at your Website. And this makes sense now I'm on the fairest of them all. I'm assuming this is from Snow White.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Yeah, of course.

[Guy Raz]

You've got herbal tea with candied apple that you would steep. Oh, that's so cool. Because she, of course, has the, you know, the poisonous apple.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Yes.

[Guy Raz]

So you are like a real fairy tale scholar.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Thank you so much. I haven't gotten fairytale scholar. That is. I'm gonna. I'm gonna steal that. Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

So you're blending these teas and selling them on your website. And tell me a little bit about how long has the business been around and.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Yeah, so we've been around since October 2020, and we've developed a couple blends, shelved A couple. We're in two stores at the moment. Locally.

[Guy Raz]

And how. And give me a sense of your sales. How are you doing roughly?

[Marissa Valenzuela]

So that kind of leads into my question.

[Guy Raz]

Okay.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Our sales were doing really, really great for a while, where they were projected to go up and up and up and up, if you will. But I sort of took like a one year hiatus when I had my first baby. First and only. And ever since then, I felt that we've lost momentum. And I want to know what I can do to sort of regain that momentum and recapture those sales.

[Guy Raz]

All right. Regain momentum and recapture sales. And you feel like you're starting from scratch. Okay, Curt Richardson, I want to bring you on. Any thoughts, any advice on how to regain momentum?

[Kurt Richardson]

Well, I guess right away you got to treat it like you're starting all over because you are in some ways. But the nice thing is you've got product and I love your story.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Thank you.

[Kurt Richardson]

I think story is huge. You've got lots of opportunity with social media with this brand. I mean, this just reeks social media. Good stuff. And I would really pour my attention into getting my story out. So people, people come to my website and direct to consumer. I mean, this has it written all over it. And that's where I would go. You can play with some stores and stuff, but, man, if you can go dtc, you're gonna make so much more money for your efforts. I just. I love D2C.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, I agree. I love the story. I mean, all these teas are inspired by fairy tales. And then you start to see it when you look at the ingredients. The ingredients are awesome and they sound delicious. I mean, looking at Little Sea Princess, obviously inspired by the mermaid, it's got. I didn't even know what this is. Danish bilberry and sweet honeysuckle. A white tea blend. That sounds delicious.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Bilberry is like a. It's like the Danish version of a blueberry.

[Guy Raz]

Okay. And that's, of course, a Danish story, right?

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Yes.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Kurt Richardson]

And what's this dust?

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Oh, pixie dust. So we. It's an edible. It's our edible glitter that we call pixie dust. And we say you need a fairy's handful and just the tiniest amount in your cup. And it makes everything so sparkly and magical and enchanted. We used to put it in the tea itself and then, like, shake it up. So that way when you scooped your tea out and steeped it, it was already covered for you. We've since stopped doing that because I don't own my commercial kitchen. And, you know, people don't like it when they get glitter on their tools.

[Guy Raz]

I think there is so much. I mean, I. And I'm going to tread carefully here because I know that all kinds of kids love fairy tales, but I've been to Disney World and Disneyland, and I've got two boys, and I can tell you right now, they did not run to the princesses, even though that is the biggest. I think it's the biggest part of what Disney sells. Like, I think it's the. It's just massive. Right. So I can imagine birthday parties for girls, little girls, and it's just so many cool things. Here's what I would. What I would say, right? Cause your question is, how do I jumpstart this? How do I regain the momentum? First of all, taking a year out again because you had a baby is awesome. And I think that's just amazing to give yourself that time with your kid.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

I would not put that kind of pressure on yourself, because that's exhausting, maybe. I think the question is, what can I start to do consistently each week for three, for six months? The other thing is, I imagine because you did reach sales that you were happy with, you probably still have the contacts of those people who bought your tees. So many businesses, and Kurt, you know this. So many businesses are focusing on customer acquisition, and costs are through the roof now. I mean, what used to be shooting fish in a barrel, you're now spending 80, 90, $100 more on customer acquisition costs. I don't think enough businesses focus on customer retention. That's really where. A lot of times, that's where the sweet spot is, because that doesn't cost that much at all. You've already got the customers and the contacts. I would really try and double down on identifying your best customers who Ordered from you more than once. Have you been in touch with them? Can you offer them some incentive to start buying your tea again?

[Kurt Richardson]

One other thing I might have is maybe really focus on those people that guy's talking about. Is it little girls with tea parties that you could sell a tea set with too? You could sell a whole experience, your whole story. I mean, there's so many more things you could add to the tea that are upselling. Could put you in a whole different spot. And you know, wow, my. My mom bought me this tea set. Well, the next little girl's gonna want the same tea set and teas. And maybe there's crackers or crumpets that can go with it too, right? I mean, have fun with this.

[Guy Raz]

I imagine right now you don't have a whole lot of cash to spend on social media advertising, but you can make social media posts and, you know, and who knows, sometimes that, you know, something can really go viral without any dollars behind it. It can still happen, especially on TikTok. But I do think that, as Kurt said, there's just so much potential for storytelling here. Right? I mean, you're already telling stories in the tea. And have you, by the way, have you reached out to your previous customers?

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Yes, I do have a newsletter that I do a pretty good job, if I may say so myself, of keeping up with. And a lot of people, when they find us, are very intrigued by the story and the fairy tale aspect. So in that way, I do stay in touch with a lot of my core customers.

[Guy Raz]

I would offer some kind of interesting incentive like, hey, for, you know, our most loyal customers. We're experimenting. You know, if you order tea, we'd love to send you a sample of some blends and tell us what you think. I mean, I'm just sort of spitballing here, but I do think that, or even, you know, a discount or something just to bring them, bring awareness back into their minds. Right. To get you back on their radar.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Yeah, that's a great idea.

[Kurt Richardson]

Yeah. And, you know, and I've got a granddaughter and I don't know how many princess outfits she has. It's crazy. I think you got a chance here to sell a whole experience. It's just, you know, tease part of it. You know, it's. It's maybe the outfits and the books and I mean, there's just, there's a lot of meat here that's good, but you're gonna have to focus. Don't try to be everything to everybody. Find that little niche, maybe that princess niche.

[Guy Raz]

Yep. Your core product is tea. But I think, Kurt, you're onto something. I can, I mean, I would start to see if I see you offer weddings or wedding blends, but I mean, man, could you mount, could you, could you mount a whole tea party for a seven or eight or nine year old girl's birthday? I would think that there are plenty of parents in Tampa who would be willing to spend, you know, pretty decent money on a party like that.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

I agree. I agree. I do believe they are indeed out there. I just have to find them. So thank you so much.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. The brand is called Gilded Coach Tease. Marissa Valenzuela, thanks for calling in. Good luck.

[Kurt Richardson]

Good luck.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Thank you so much. And before I go, Kurt, I just want to say thank you so much. You sparked my yearly re listen and reread of the e Myth. It's something every single year, I forget about it, something sparks me to reread it. And that was re listening to your episode. So thank you for that. There's so many good tidbits in there.

[Kurt Richardson]

You bet. Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Guy Raz]

Thank you, Marissa.

[Marissa Valenzuela]

Thank you so much.

[Guy Raz]

We're going to take another quick break, but we'll be right back with one more caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. I've noticed that a lot of people we talk to on this show, founders, entrepreneurs, creatives, they spend a surprising amount of time thinking about systems. Not because they love complexity, but because they're trying to reduce it. The best systems usually make life feel simpler, calmer, more manageable. Financial well being works the same way. Because most people don't want to spend all day thinking about money. They just want to understand where things are going, feel in control, and remove some of the stress and guesswork from everyday life. That's part of what Apple Card is designed to do. You can apply for Apple Card right in the wallet app on your iPhone in minutes. Once you're approved, you can use Apple Card right away with Apple Pay without any friction. And here's the fun part. You spend and then you earn unlimited daily cash back on every purchase, every day, not a month later. That's it. It really is that straightforward. And you earn 3% daily cash back on anything you buy from the Apple store and at select merchants when using Apple Card with Apple Pay. One more thing people really seem to like is being able to track spending right from their iPhone. You can see purchases, search, transactions easily and get a clearer picture of where your money's going over time. It just makes things feel a little more transparent and manageable. Easily pin down spending with Apple Card Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today subject to credit approval. Some transactions may not be displayed in maps. Merchant offers may change at any time. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail] When I pull up to a gas pump to fill my car, I'm not thinking about chemistry or engineering. I'm thinking about getting in, filling up and getting on with my day. And it reminds me a little bit of the founders I talked to on this show. Because the best ones obsess over things their customers will never see. Tiny details, invisible improvements, relentless iteration. And not because anyone's watching, but because it makes the product better. That's what the Mobil brand does. It engineers fuel the same way great founders engineer their products. Mobil supreme plus Premium gas helps keep engines three times cleaner, which can mean better performance and improved gas mileage. It's for people who care about what's under the hood, even if they never see it three times cleaner compared to mobile regular gas in port fuel injected engines. Actual results may vary. Visit mobilefuels.com for details. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking calls with Otterbox founder Kurt Richardson. Kurt, we have one more caller for today looking for some advice. You ready? Yeah, I'm ready caller. Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Kurt Richardson, founder of Otterbox. Tell us your name, where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business.

[Vince Giudice]

Hi Guy and Kurt. I'm really excited to be here. Big fan of the show. My name is Vince Giudice. I'm calling in from Chatham, New Jersey. My company or my wife and my company is called Everloop and it is a sustainable baby gear company. It's sustainable for two reasons. We make our products exclusively with recycled and regenerative materials. But also more importantly is that we buy our products back from our customers when they no longer need them. For 20% cash back so we can recycle it into new products. Our big thing is zero waste, nothing to landfill.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Andy Jeremiah]

Okay.

[Guy Raz]

Welcome to the show. Vin. So you make baby products? Tell me just just a couple of products you make.

[Vince Giudice]

We just launched this time last year. We launched with two products. A three in one high chair made from recycled hdpe. Given the plastic call out because I know Kurt knows plastics and an organic bouncer chair. So something that you'd put your baby in?

[Guy Raz]

Oh, yeah.

[Vince Giudice]

To lounge in. Yes. Products for now.

[Guy Raz]

And did you design these products yourself?

[Vince Giudice]

No. I worked with my, my career before this was in the toy space. And I worked with some really stellar designers and engineers. I have a strong understanding of injection molding and manufacturing, but I am not a designer and engineer by training, so I worked with them to design these products using exclusively these materials.

[Guy Raz]

And everything is. Is recycled. All the plastic, all the materials you use are recycled.

[Vince Giudice]

All the plastic is 100% curbside collected plastic, recycled plastic. We do use stainless steel, which will recycle when we get the product back. And when we use fabrics, for example, we use 100 organic cotton and organic wool. And we do that so that we can actually compost the product when we're done with it.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Vince Giudice]

So it's a mix of. It's a mix of different ingredients.

[Guy Raz]

So you were in the toy space for a while. And how did you come to this idea? I mean, baby products, I think, interesting category. Tell me about the decision just to start this brand.

[Vince Giudice]

Yeah. So the first decade of my career was at a environmentally friendly toy company. I loved every day of it. I enjoyed Mondays as much as Fridays. We used recycled materials for those toys. But it really kind of dawned on me that if you went to recycle one of those products, when you were done with it, it would go to landfill. And that's because recycling centers globally don't know what it is. They know what bottles are and cans are. So that's where I kind of had this idea brewing where it was like, what if we brought it back and recycled it ourselves? And that was kind of the jumping off point for the baby gear brand.

[Andy Jeremiah]

Wow.

[Guy Raz]

And tell me, you launched a year ago and it's direct to consumer entirely.

[Vince Giudice]

Yes. So we launched a year ago with our two products, leveraging some contacts, a lot of contacts I've had. We are now live with Nordstrom, Pottery Barn Kids. We're live on Target. We're live with Creighton Kids, Masonette, a lot of other third party e comm retailers and then direct on our site. So it's all direct to consumer. Most of these products are dropship, so we use their marketplace. Not too much gear is sold in store besides big box retailers. And things are, things are going well.

[Guy Raz]

Tell me, how'd you do in your first year?

[Vince Giudice]

Yeah, so our first, I mean, our first year we only did like 18k in revenue, but this year we're on track to do 100k.

[Guy Raz]

Amazing. Okay, before we dive in further, what's your question for us?

[Vince Giudice]

So my questioning is related to marketing. So most of our sales are baby registry driven. And what that means is there's about a three to six month lag from discovery to purchase. And that makes knowing what marketing channel is working very challenging. So my question is, if you were in my shoes, would you place a lot of small bets in different channels like TikTok, Meta or Pinterest or others, or would you pick a lane and go deep?

[Guy Raz]

Interesting question. Okay, Kurt Richardson, I'd love to bring you in. Say hello to Vince.

[Andy Jeremiah]

How are you?

[Vince Giudice]

Hi, Kurt.

[Guy Raz]

Thoughts, ideas, questions?

[Kurt Richardson]

Well, yeah, I get your question. First of all, I'm a big. I would shoot BBS until I hit something.

[Vince Giudice]

Okay.

[Kurt Richardson]

And then when I hit it, I'd kick up to a.22 caliber. And when it really took off, I'd go 50 mag. 50 cal. You know what I'm saying is don't throw all your money down one hole at once. You've got to fire a lot of bullets until you hit something significant. And then that's where you start to spend your money. I'd be very careful just picking one channel that can. Time is money. And if you spend all your time down one rat hole and don't go down multiple ones until you find what you're looking for, it's going to hurt you.

[Vince Giudice]

That's very refreshing to hear. I've talked to many different folks about it and agencies that focus on specific channels. And everyone's selling their channel as the

[Kurt Richardson]

place to be careful with agencies.

[Vince Giudice]

Exactly. Yes. We use consultants for the most part. My gut is said to do what you're suggesting and that's pepper the bets out there. And you know, take your time, be methodical.

[Kurt Richardson]

Right.

[Vince Giudice]

Until you start understanding.

[Kurt Richardson]

You know, back back in the day for Otter, we, we, we used a lot of different channels to get different people to write about our products. And there's a lot of free marketing out there. If you look for it, if you find the right people to talk about your product, let other people talk about it, has more credibility than you anyway. So, I mean, when you're blowing your own horn, people just know you're blowing your horn. But if somebody else is blowing it, it's much better advertising.

[Vince Giudice]

Definitely.

[Guy Raz]

Vince, I have a slightly different take, which is to say it depends in part on what you are prepared to spend. Right. I mean, if you're talking about tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, I think there's a compelling case to make that you, you do make small experiments. But one of the mistakes that we have seen early stage founders make often is that they will put $5,000 or $10,000 into multiple channels. And it doesn't always tell you much. And I think one of the reasons why is because oftentimes, especially at the early stage, founders don't spend as much time as they should really getting obsessed with who is actually buying your product. I would hasten to guess that most people buying your product are not buying it because they're necessarily environmentally conscious. Probably some are, but I would think that most people like the product. And the other thing that I think is probably the most compelling thing about this is the buyback.

[Vince Giudice]

100%.

[Guy Raz]

Right? I mean, I can't think of any. I mean, very few baby products where they're like, yeah, you buy it and enjoy it, and then we will give you 20% of what it costs. We'll buy it back when you're done. That's very significant. I mean, that's a big deal.

[Vince Giudice]

You hit the nail on the head. It's, you know, I go to a lot of consumer shows and we sell our pitch, we talk about the ingredients, and everyone says, oh, that's great, I love that. And then when we say the buyback, the eyes just light up and they say, sign me up, let's add it to registry.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. And I would say, before you even put a dollar down, I would try and call, literally. I'll buy things online and I use a pseudonym, but I'll get an email from the founder saying, hey, Tim, my pseudonym, we'd love to hear what you liked about a product. Give me a call, literally. And I'm very impressed when I see that. I mean, at this stage, I think you could do some of that. Just do a call instead of having people fill out forms and see if you can get 10, 15, 20 more people giving you reasons why they did that. And once you start to build a profile of who that person is, that really can help you sharpen your focus on where you want to put those dollars. Because I would say three channels, four channels. Great. 7, 10, 15 channels. I'm not sure. Unless, again, you've got huge amounts of money to spend. But I think knowing who those people are will help you figure out where to put those marketing dollars. Does that make sense?

[Vince Giudice]

That makes. Makes a lot of sense. Just going direct to the source to see.

[Kurt Richardson]

And mind you, I wasn't saying go ten places. I would really research and pick four to five and then see what lands, see what hits. And again, my philosophy early on was, I'm not going to spend money on advertising unless I can measure it. Because if you can't measure it, you have no clue where that money's going.

[Vince Giudice]

I'm in that camp as well, Kurt. And that's. That's been the challenge is I like. I like seeing the data in the flow through, and I'm having trouble. Trouble seeing that, which is tough for an OPS guy.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kurt Richardson]

But guy hit it. I mean, if you can get a hold of your customer, who bought it, where'd you hear about it? Why do you like it? Why'd you buy it? Great questions.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. And I think that the story is so compelling, and it really, to me, even beyond the regenerative. I love the regenerative stuff. I love that. I live for that. But I'm not the typical consumer on that. It's the buyback. I think of all of the baby stuff we had with our kids and just getting rid of it, and you sell some of it, you find people who want some of it, you throw away some of it. I mean, I'm embarrassed to tell you what we threw away. And that buyback is just very meaningful. It's basically saying, we got you. You're never gonna have to deal with, like, what to do with this thing when you're done.

[Vince Giudice]

Definitely. And it plays into the bigger vision, which is getting people locked into this circular ownership model, which is as soon as they use our highchair and send it back, you know, their child's probably ready for, you know, a walker or a rider stride, a bike of some sort or. Or a scooter. So I'm glad to hear that it resonates with you, because as a parent, like, yeah, it hit a home when I landed on it. And especially because, like, traditional donation channels won't take baby gear for liability reasons. So you have a lot of stuff that's gently used and no place to go.

[Guy Raz]

I would really shout that from the rafters on the. Even on your website, you know, I don't see that right at the front center. I would make that the core right now of what you are doing.

[Kurt Richardson]

One other slant I might have on this is maybe you look at the philanthropic side of this instead of, you know, you give this to. You have some programs you work with, you know, people who cannot afford this. So rather than recycling it because it costs money to recycle that. Right. It doesn't cost as much to get it into a program where now somebody else gets to use this thing that is you're just cleaning it up and shipping it on and really helping somebody else. And that that connects to that could be part of your story in a big way.

[Vince Giudice]

I love that. We've actually done some work with some hospitals. Again, not offering product, but steep discounts to get. We are a young company and we are a bootstrapped company, but it's a great way to build awareness. But honestly, I love that idea of offering the product that comes back to other folks that are in need.

[Guy Raz]

Awesome. It's just a really, really cool idea. Vince Guiducci, Everloop is the brand. Good luck and, yeah, keep us posted.

[Vince Giudice]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[Kurt Richardson]

Yeah, keep at it.

[Guy Raz]

Thank you. Kerr, thank you so much for coming back on the show and doing this. Before I let you go, I want to ask you a question that I've been asking everybody who does come back on, which is, you know, if you could go back to when you were first starting out, right, and give yourself some advice, what do you think might have been helpful for you to know that you didn't know then?

[Kurt Richardson]

I think for me to wrestle with the question, what do you want? What do I want? And many times it doesn't have to do with the business. It has to do with the heart, not the head. And I think it's important that you discover that for yourself and let that be your guiding light going forward. Also, I was really good at making things, but I wasn't really good at running things. So it's very important to get educated. There's different ways to do that. You go to college, but I'm not sure it's going to teach you that. There's a lot of great books out there. There's a lot of great mentors nowadays. I mean, you can learn so much on YouTube and podcasts. I mean, like, this are so educational. I would encourage people to dive into this type of media and learn learning, because I learned that way from watching and listening, hearing other people's stories, learning from other people's mistakes and successes.

[Guy Raz]

Yep, for sure. Well, Kurt, thanks so much for coming back onto the show. It was great having you.

[Kurt Richardson]

You bet. Thank you, guy. It's fun. Fun seeing you again. And you, too. And it's great watching what you're doing. Thank you for doing that for the entrepreneurial community. It's so big. It's so important. You really mean a need.

[Guy Raz]

Thanks for. And thanks for being part of it. That's Kurt Richardson, founder of Otterbox and Blue Ocean, and By the way, if you haven't heard Kurt's original How I Built this episode, go back and check it out, please. Great episode. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.

[Kurt Richardson]

This is a great story. So I remember being at CES and in Las Vegas. In Vegas, and Michael Cowan, who was the head guy for stuff at AT&T, came by and showed him the case and he said, well, how much is it? I said, well, it retails for $49.95. He's like, you're crazy. 49.95.

[Guy Raz]

Crazy to buy a case.

[Kurt Richardson]

All the cases were like five bucks.

[Guy Raz]

It's nuts.

[Kurt Richardson]

So he said, but we'll do a test. So they did a test and they were going to do a three month test. Well, I think they did a three day test because they all sold out. Wow. They sold like crazy. I mean, it was like that UPS commercial, you know, it's like, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. And we're going, oh, crap.

[Guy Raz]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to How I Built this Lab. This episode was produced by Carla Estevez with editing by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. Our music was composed by Ramtin Arablouei. Our production team also includes Alex Chung, J.C. howard, Casey Herman, Elaine Coates, Chris Masini, Kathryn Seifer, Carrie Thompson, Sam Paulson, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built this Lab. One more mention for our presenting sponsor, Anthropic. Claude is built for people who like to keep pulling on the thread. The research, the planning, the questions, the follow through until the work starts to make sense. So try Claude for the next problem worth solving.