Advice Line with Eric Ryan of Method

Summary

Podcast Summary: How I Built This with Guy Raz Episode: Advice Line with Eric Ryan of Method
Release Date: June 26, 2025

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Introduction to Eric Ryan

In this episode of How I Built This, host Guy Raz welcomes back Eric Ryan, a serial entrepreneur renowned for co-founding iconic brands such as Method, Ollie, and Welly. Eric shares his journey from childhood friends in Michigan to launching environmentally friendly cleaning products in the tech-centric landscape of San Francisco during the early 2000s.

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Strategies for Starting and Scaling Businesses

Eric Ryan emphasizes an academic approach to entrepreneurship, focusing on identifying categories with a "sea of sameness" and leveraging culture shifts or macro trends to differentiate products. For instance, with Method, Eric and his co-founder Adam Lowry capitalized on the trends of high design and deep sustainability, transforming everyday cleaning products into objects of desire through sleek, colorful packaging and environmentally friendly formulations.

Notable Quote:

"Failure is part of it. I've had failures both on the business side as well as within the companies that have been successful."
— Eric Ryan [08:17]

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Importance of Design and Branding

Design is central to Eric's brand-building philosophy. He believes that great design fosters an emotional connection with consumers, turning products into emotional experiences rather than mere functional items. This approach not only appeals visually but also instills a sense of innocence and inner childfulness in serious product categories.

Notable Quote:

"The heart of it is almost like an object of desire. I want to create an emotional connection through great design, great creativity."
— Eric Ryan [09:00]

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Omnichannel Distribution Approach

Eric advocates for an omnichannel strategy, integrating both online Direct-to-Consumer (D2C) platforms and traditional retail partnerships. He underscores the importance of being present where consumers are, whether that's on Instagram, TikTok, or securing prime retail placements like end caps in Target stores. This dual approach ensures brands remain visible and accessible across various shopping preferences.

Notable Quote:

"There's no more valuable real estate in America than an end cap at a Target."
— Eric Ryan [10:58]

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Caller Interaction 1: Transparent Hospitality and Seeking Mentorship

Caller: Maggie Girth from Franklin, Tennessee, co-owner of Transparent Hospitality with five locations in Nevada and newly expanded operations in Nashville.

Business Background: Maggie and her husband, Tyler, run a bakery and restaurant concept called Perrin, which combines naturally leavened bread and rotisserie cooking. Transitioning from private chefs to owning multiple locations, they now manage a team of 120 employees.

Challenge: Maggie seeks advice on finding a mentor to guide them through scaling challenges while maintaining their company ethos and vision.

Advice Provided: Eric and Aubrey Wolaski suggest assembling a small advisory board comprising individuals with expertise in operations, finance, and Consumer Packaged Goods (CPG). This structured approach can provide strategic guidance without necessitating immediate outside capital.

Notable Quote:

"If you want to build this for cash flow so you don't ever have that pressure to sell the business someday, finding somebody who's got that same passion that you have could be a nice Goldilocks fit."
— Aubrey Wolaski [19:04]

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Caller Interaction 2: Props Luggage and Funding Decisions

Caller: Matt Engorn from Chicago, Illinois, founder of Props Luggage, a carry-on suitcase with a built-in leg system eliminating the need for additional luggage racks.

Business Background: Props Luggage was born from Matt's personal experience as a parent managing travel with four daughters. The product gained traction through direct-to-consumer channels, Amazon, QVC, and recently, The Container Store.

Challenges: Matt grapples with the decision to either continue self-funding to maintain control or seek investors to scale the business more aggressively. Additionally, he contemplates licensing the leg system to larger brands and expanding the product line beyond a singular offering.

Advice Provided: Eric and Aubrey recommend evaluating the long-term vision and determining whether outside capital aligns with their growth objectives. They also suggest exploring licensing opportunities as a means to generate free cash flow while continuing to build the brand.

Notable Quote:

"You're making an incredible product, but you have to think about whether you're ready to scale and potentially give up some control in the process."
— Aubrey Wolaski [33:31]

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Caller Interaction 3: FlipKnits Adventure Gloves and Retail Challenges

Caller: Matt Engorn (possibly a typo in the transcript; assuming a different caller named Matt Engorn) from Scottsdale, Arizona, co-founder of FlipKnits, a versatile glove system for runners and other activities.

Business Background: FlipKnits offers 3-in-1 adventure gloves that transform into mittens or function as hand towels, addressing the varying needs of runners during different stages of their activity. The product is available on Shopify, Amazon, QVC, and recently, feedback from Walmart has posed challenges in determining appropriate in-store placement.

Challenges: Matt seeks guidance on scaling beyond existing sales channels, particularly overcoming retail placement obstacles and enhancing consumer education to drive in-store sales.

Advice Provided: Aubrey advises hyper-specialization by creating targeted versions of the gloves for specific activities (e.g., running, hunting, weightlifting) and licensing to entities like universities or sports teams. This strategy can enhance product recognition and align with familiar retail categories, facilitating better placement and sales.

Notable Quote:

"For retail to work, you've got to be able to really put it into that space of familiarity. Possibly the right way is to create different versions targeting different use occasions."
— Aubrey Wolaski [48:39]

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Eric Ryan's Reflections and Final Advice

During the episode's conclusion, Eric shares wisdom on time management and patience in entrepreneurship, emphasizing the importance of building strong foundations and pacing growth effectively.

Notable Quote:

"Be much more patient and don't be in such a rush. Building strong foundations takes time in entrepreneurship."
— Aubrey Wolaski [53:06]

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Closing Remarks

Guy Raz concludes the episode by highlighting a memorable moment from Eric's earlier appearance, reinforcing the non-toxic commitment of Method’s products through an anecdote where Eric and Adam Ryan ingested their own product to prove its safety.

Notable Quote:

"To prove that this really was non-toxic, you actually drank it."
— Guy Raz [54:08]

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Key Takeaways

• Strategic Brand Building: Focus on design and emotional connections to differentiate products in saturated markets.
• Omnichannel Distribution: Integrate online and offline sales channels to maximize brand visibility and accessibility.
• Mentorship and Advisory Boards: Assemble a team of advisors with diverse expertise to guide business growth without relinquishing core vision.
• Product Diversification and Licensing: Expand product lines strategically and explore licensing to increase revenue streams and market presence.
• Patience and Time Management: Recognize that building a business foundation requires time and deliberate pacing to ensure sustainable growth.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

1. "Failure is part of it." — Eric Ryan [08:17]
2. "The heart of it is almost like an object of desire." — Eric Ryan [09:00]
3. "There's no more valuable real estate in America than an end cap at a Target." — Eric Ryan [10:58]
4. "If you want to build this for cash flow so you don't ever have that pressure to sell the business someday, finding somebody who's got that same passion that you have could be a nice Goldilocks fit." — Aubrey Wolaski [19:04]
5. "For retail to work, you've got to be able to really put it into that space of familiarity." — Aubrey Wolaski [48:39]
6. "Be much more patient and don't be in such a rush." — Aubrey Wolaski [53:06]

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Conclusion This episode offers invaluable insights into brand building, scaling strategies, and mentorship, drawing from Eric Ryan's extensive experience in launching and growing successful consumer brands. Listeners gain practical advice applicable to various stages of entrepreneurship, enriched by real-world examples and dynamic interactions with fellow entrepreneurs.

Transcript

[Guy Raz]

Wondery subscribers can listen to How I Built this early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Thank you to our sponsor, American Express. Owning a business means you get to chart your own course and create a meaningful life for you and your family. With Amex Business Platinum, you can earn 1.5 times Membership Rewards points on select business purchases, plus stay refreshed on the go with access to more than 1400 lounges globally through the American Express Global Lounge Collection, including the Centurion Lounge. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] how I built this is supported by Ring. With Ring, you can be there from anywhere with doorbells and cameras that help you see more to exciting features that help you know more to the app that lets you connect more. See more at the front door, up high and down low with battery doorbell's head to toe video capture it all all day and all night and get smarter alerts that know the difference between a person and a package right in the Ring app. I use Ring to check in on my dog when I'm out of the house or running errands just to make sure everything's okay. It's awesome because I can see her wherever she's in the house. With Ring, you can check in and be there from anywhere. Some features require a subscription and are available only on select Ring devices. Exclusions apply. Limited learn [e-mail] if you've shopped online, chances are you bought from a business powered by Shopify. And there's a reason so many businesses sell with it. Because Shopify doesn't just make amazing buying experiences for customers, they're also the experts in helping small businesses grow big. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Tackle all the important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. Get all the big stuff for your small business right with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com built go to shopify.combilt.com shopify.com built hello and welcome to the advice line on How I Built this Lab.

[Eric Ryan]

I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help.

[Guy Raz]

Try to solve your business challenges. Each week I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a 1 minute message that tells us about your business and the.

[Eric Ryan]

Issues or questions that you'd like help with.

[Guy Raz]

You can also send us a voice [e-mail] and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entreprene. You can sign up for [e-mail] and we'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it.

[Eric Ryan]

Joining me this week is Eric Ryan. He's a serial entrepreneur, co founder of Wait for It, Method, Welly, Ollie and so many other brands. Eric, it's great to have you back.

[Guy Raz]

On the show, Guy.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Thanks for having me.

[Eric Ryan]

You were originally on the Show Back in 2018, you and Adam Lowry, your Method co founder. I interviewed you guys in person in San Francisco Francisco. And just to remind people of the story, you guys were childhood friends from Michigan. You were both on the sailing teams. And then after college you moved to San Francisco. And then the 90s you guys started to talk about starting a cleaning products business. And this by the way, was when everyone in San Francisco in the 90s was talking about a tech company. You guys are talking about a cleaning products company, but one that was like was environmentally friendly but that actually worked. And so in 2001 you launched Method, selling the now very well known colorful soaps in those sleek bottles which we talked about on the show, how you spend so much time designing those bottles. The brand was eventually acquired by Essie Johnson. Then you went on to co found, as I mentioned, a bunch of other brands including the gummy vitamin company Ollie and the first aid brand Welly, which were also acquired. By the way, if you guys haven't heard my original episode with Eric Ryan and Adam Lowry, I really recommend it. It's an excellent episode and we will put a link to it in the show. Notes Eric before we get to today's callers, it's been a few years since you've been on the show, so I wanted to just kind of ask a couple questions. First of all, you know, one of the things that you've done and really started with Method is you're not an expert necessarily in any of these things, in vitamins or soap or you know, first aid, but you go into spaces that, where you find opportunity. So how do you, how do you think about starting businesses? I mean, are you literally looking for where there might be an opportunity?

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah, so I definitely have like a little bit of an academic approach to it. Unlike a lot of founders will follow something they're really passionate about or they see a problem in the world they want to solve. I really start with like categories. And so I will look for spaces that I think are a sea of sameness. And that's kind of the clue dig here. And what I do is I look for what I call like the culture shift or the macro trend that that category is missing. So in the case of Method, we found too is lifestyling of the home. Like nobody thought about these products as a form of self expression in your home. I mean, you look at a dish soap more than you use it at the same time. This is back in 2000, you couldn't buy a natural product outside of a natural store, but yet you were asked to pollute when you clean or use poison to make your home healthier. So those are the two macro trends of high design and deep sustainability that we built the brand off of. And so within each business, that's the opportunity I look for. And I kind of then, you know, build a strategy around it and to your point of like, you just got to get in and figure it out.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah. I remember you talking about with Method that you used to just wander the aisles of grocery stores looking for ideas.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Still do.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

So right now I'm focused on building a functional candy brand called Tandy. You can find it, Target, Amazon, soon to be cvs.

[Eric Ryan]

And functional means that it's kind of got healthy things in it like nootropics or whatever.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

That's right. So it's. I've always wanted, I think Willy Wonka is my favorite movie of all time. So let's go be Willy. So Tandy is a better for you candy, low sugar, nothing artificial, tastes great. But each one has a functional benefit.

[Eric Ryan]

It's amazing how many different brands you've built and, and how so many of them have been successful. One of the things that I think is really critical to mention, Eric, is that you've also started brands that didn't work out. Right. Which is really important to know, right, Is that in order to have those big successes, you know, Ollie and Welly and Method, you also, you gotta take big swings, right?

[Aubrey Wolaski]

That's right. I loved my dear friend Tony Hsieh, who we lost, would always say like, sometimes you're sitting at the wrong poker table and, you know, until you get into an industry and really understand the characteristics of it and look, you always have to go in being naive and having that beginner's eye, otherwise you wouldn't do it. But no, failure is part of it. I've had failures of both on the business side as well as within the, you know, companies that have been, you know, successful. You know, Method, we had an original personal care line called Block that was a massive failure.

[Eric Ryan]

We talked about that massive failure and cost you guys a lot of money.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

That's right. And you pick yourself up and you get right back at it and you keep building, but no failure has to be part of it. And as I said to my kids, like with skiing, if you're not falling down, well, you're just not trying hard enough.

[Eric Ryan]

And really, you've become known as a sort of a creative brand builder like, you focus a lot on. In the Method conversation we talked, I think a significant part of that conversation was just talking about the bottle design that, that really was so important, even though you were making an organic. Because a lot of people think, okay, let's make an organic soap. We'll slap organic on the label. It'll say toxic free. And, you know, and people will FL to it for those reasons. And your, your view is, well, that's not good enough. Let's make a beautiful bottle that looks so nice you want to put on your sink and, you know, if they discover it's organic afterwards, great.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah.

[Eric Ryan]

Like, so is design for you the core, the sort of the center of how you build products?

[Aubrey Wolaski]

It is. And it's not just. I mean, I see design as part of a tool in creating brands that have an incredible emotional connection. And I want to create brands and products that the second you see it, you want it, and then hopefully you actually need it. Which is fun going into these more fundamental categories. But the heart of it, what I'm trying to create is almost like objects of desire. And I want to create this emotional connection through great design, great creativity, like working every touch point to be able to do that. And I think if you really dig down a little deeper, kind of part of, like I say, I'm a one trick pony, but part of my trick is I try to almost bring like an inner child approach to these very serious categories. And, and so, I mean, you look at Method, it almost looks like what a. What a kid would want to clean with. Ollie, what I did was I brought kids gummy vitamins to the adult market. Welly, I got adults to wear, you know, bandages that were supposed to be for kids. And I think that's how I create that emotional connection is this almost like innocent inner, inner child approach to these very, very serious categories.

[Eric Ryan]

Eric, when you launched method, you know, 25 years ago, it was a different landscape. But how, how does it, I mean, how. Think about distributing a product, selling a product. Is it, Is it. Are you leaning heavily into online? Is it. Do you still believe in the traditional, you know, Walmart's targets and, you know, Kroger's of the world?

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah, I very much do. I think today it's just much more of an omnichannel approach. I don't think it's. It's one or the other. And I don't think consumers look at that way. They don't. When they see a brand that started off as more of a traditional D2C online brand, they see it inside of a Target. They don't think of like, oh, there's that D2C brand now available in wholesale. They think like, oh, that's that brand I love. And I think vice versa. Then for someone like me, those retail partnerships are. I still think there's no more valuable real estate in America than an end cap at a target. And the efficiency of scales, working with them is still really important.

[Eric Ryan]

And for example, with the candy, is it enough to have an end cap or to have decent placement at Target and then if you build it, they will come kind of thing, it will sell on its own or do you still have to, you know, are you still, you know, putting in considerable dollars into marketing the thing?

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah, I think of, you know, I still think of advertising as a tax on an unremarkable product. And the better you get the product, the packaging and something that creates that immediate connection, then marketing is really just gravy and jet fuel to, to be able to accelerate that. But today, no, you've got to. You gotta be able to win on shelf immediately. You gotta do that through great visual merchandising, great packaging. A product, you know, a product that is instantly, you can instantly understand. But then, no, you have to be building through Instagram, social, TikTok. You kind of have to do it all today to build a modern brand. And the ones that are really breaking out, you're seeing their ability to do that.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah. Well, congrats on everything you've built and on what you're building now with Tandy. I'm excited to see where that goes. Why don't we bring in our first caller. You ready? All right.

[Guy Raz]

Hello, caller.

[Eric Ryan]

Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Eric Ryan. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

[Maggie Girth]

Hi, guy. Hi, Eric. My name is Aubrey Wolaski. I'm calling from Franklin, Tennessee. My husband and I own Transparent Hospitality. We have five locations in northern Nevada, and we recently just moved our four little kids to the greater Nashville area to expand our bakery and restaurant concept called Perrin.

[Eric Ryan]

All right, well, welcome to the show, Aubrey. So you have a business that is a food business, and what other. What's under that besides a bakery?

[Maggie Girth]

So we kind of expanded our bakery concept. It's a bakery, vanoastrie, naturally leavened bread restaurant. And we expanded it to Perrin Grocery, where we have three different locations. In Reno, we do have a little restaurant called Cleo. It's a rotisserie. So we recently decided to combine our rotisserie concept and our bakery concept and open in the Nashville area. So we are. We just opened, actually. I'm upstairs of the restaurant we opened this week in Franklin, Tennessee.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Oh, congrats.

[Maggie Girth]

Thank you.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Wait, do you have. You have five locations and four kids?

[Maggie Girth]

Yes.

[Eric Ryan]

It's amazing.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Oh, my.

[Eric Ryan]

So you've got. And you're splitting this between Reno, Nevada, and Franklin, Tennessee. Okay, let's dive into this. And you do this with your husband, you said?

[Maggie Girth]

Yes, my husband, Tyler.

[Eric Ryan]

Okay. And tell me how you guys, how this all started, because this is a sprawling business. You've got a bakery called Perenne.

[Guy Raz]

Right.

[Eric Ryan]

And then a grocery, and you've got a rotisserie restaurant and then bakery and restaurants in Tennessee.

[Maggie Girth]

Yes.

[Eric Ryan]

And all called Perenne.

[Maggie Girth]

All called Perenne. Yes. So we're kind of. I mean, we have never done this before. We're kind of just going for it. As you can tell, we had four kids, so we actually, we met at culinary school school at the CIA in Hyde Park, New York.

[Eric Ryan]

You and Tyler did?

[Maggie Girth]

Yes.

[Eric Ryan]

Oh, nice. Okay.

[Maggie Girth]

We're very passionate for the industry, but we also were really passionate about changing the industry. So we actually started as private chefs in the Lake Tahoe area that snowballed into having a catering company and to supply our own catering company with great bread. My husband taught himself the sourdough and then laminated pastries, and we decided to open a little bakery on the side while doing our catering company.

[Eric Ryan]

Wow. I'm looking at your website for Perenn, by the way. What does Perenn mean?

[Maggie Girth]

It's short for perennial.

[Eric Ryan]

Oh, nice. Okay. And it's great. I love the little rabbit logo you've got, it's really cool. And the wow, the pastries look absolutely amazing. Before I ask you more questions, tell me what question you brought for us today.

[Maggie Girth]

Okay. So as young entrepreneurs, my biggest question is how do we find a mentor that can help guide us, help us with large questions while still maintaining the ethos and the vision that we personally have?

[Eric Ryan]

All right, good. Place to be. You've got two of them right here for the next few minutes. But before we answer your question, Eric, any questions for Aubrey?

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah, first of all, I love your. I'm just looking at your site right now. I love your identity and I'm just in awe of how much you're doing. It's absolutely incredible. So congrats on everything. It's gotta be exhausting. But tell me a little bit more on Mentor Advisor. Where are the areas in the business that you're feeling most insecure or where you feel like you need the most support as you're scaling up this business probably around scale.

[Maggie Girth]

We started as 23, 24 year olds, really only leaning on our own intuition and what felt right, knowing that the backbone of everything was being very transparent. That's why we coined our company Transparent Hospitality with not only our customers, but with our own team. We have now a team of 120 people. We're not ever trying to become a, I mean, everyone says, are you going to, you know, franchise? Will you become a chain? I think we have so much energy and so much growth and we know all the things that we want to do and we want to be able to pace that out. So for us, we've never had a mentor. We've really just kind of gone with it and hoped for the best. But as we get a little bit more serious and have a little bit more people to take care of, we want to make sure that we're bouncing ideas off of people, especially as we grow into a larger city. So I would say it's predominantly about the growth and gauging whether or not it is a good point to grow or when to take a pause.

[Eric Ryan]

Aubry, I imagine you feel like you're on a hamster wheel that just is never going to stop. Is that fair to say?

[Maggie Girth]

Yes, but it's all our own doing, you know, so it's a happy hamster wheel, if you will.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah, I'm just in awe of what you guys have done because I know the food space so well. And Eric, you've been involved as an investor, I know, in some food brands and it's a challenging, you know, bakeries, restaurants, really challenging business.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah. To Guy's point. I sit on a couple restaurant boards. One of them, you're probably familiar with Flour and water here in San Francisco and they're going through a similar process that you are. We're building out a chain of pizzerias and starting to scale up the business. But have you thought, and you've taken new outside capital, have you thought about putting together either a small board or a small advisor group? And there's different ways to compensate them through cash. You know what's considered more phantom equity. But if you consider putting together like a small, maybe like a trio of advisors that could start to work with you almost as a board.

[Maggie Girth]

Yeah, I would love to do that.

[Eric Ryan]

I mean, you know, one of the ways many certainly high end restaurants make it and thrive is there is usually an investor or a group of investors behind it, but certainly one kind of main investor who joins as an operator as well. And I know that's that to be the case with several, you know, sort of Michelin style restaurants in the Bay Area. What you guys are doing is just high level and you want to, as you said, you want to find somebody like a Danny Meyer, somebody who's not going to compromise right. On quality, who's not. Somebody who's just going to want to expand and just sell franchises and you know, soon you're going to be going to your bakeries and people are going to be just making Pillsbury, you know, Pillsbury croissants or something. Right. You don't want that. You want somebody who really believes in the business. I wonder whether Eric, whether that person is also an investor, somebody who joins as an investor, but who also part of that is that they are helping to guide the business.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I get it too. Like you have full control right now and once you bring in outside capital comes with expectations of how you could provide a liquidity return on that. But if you could find the opportunity to bring in a long term partner who is, who wants to build it for cash flow so you don't ever have that pressure to sell the business someday. And to Guy's point, who can also be a great smart money, a great strategic partner. And look, this is a real passion industry too. And so finding somebody who's got that same passion that you have could be a nice Goldilocks fit.

[Maggie Girth]

Can I ask you a question regarding that investment piece? You know, we've had this for about six years now. So we do have, you know, pretty Decent sales. How do you classify what would be worth it to bring the investor to give up equity?

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah, well, if you haven't done it already, and I'm sure you and your husband probably get zero time together, but if you could like book a place to go for a few days and really build out what is your three to five year vision and really build that vision and that plan of where do you want to get to and then work backwards from there, Understand what you know, can you self fund it or do you need capital to get there? And then once you decide which path you need to go, I would then figure out what are the key areas that you feel like you need to bring some, you know, a few people in to really help you. Whether it's, it's operations, finance, and then populate around a small advisor board of maybe three people, then you and your husband. So it keeps it to five. Odd numbers are always best, I think then, then you have a real clear vision of who you need around the table. And the beauty of putting together, like if you don't take outside capital, you don't need a true board. But, but having a group of people function as a board, it kind of creates these like tentpole moments and puts structure around the business and to help you create a really clear rhythm to help you scale more. And then I think once you build that plan, I think everything flows from that. Whether you do need to take capital or not or if you want secondary to be able to get a little financial relief.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah. Aubrey, you are in the hospitality business, right? At the end of the day, I mean, obviously you're making an incredible product, I can see. But really, and I read your mission statement, really, you're in the business of bringing people together around a shared experience, which is food. And I would really lean on finding somebody from that world. Right. Somebody from the hospitality business. And sometimes it's hard to ask people like, can you be a mentor? Because I'm asked that a lot and it's tough, I don't always have time. But I think maybe a better approach might be can I talk to you and ask for advice? But in the course of that conversation, your ask should be, who do you know that I should talk to? Or who are some other people who might be worth reaching out to and could you make a connection? Because sometimes people really do want to help, but they don't have time. And sometimes it's just a matter of finding that right person at the right place at the right time, who has the time and the interest and the passion. And I think it's about having the conversations first before directly just saying, do you want to be my mentor, Eric? Do you get. Because I'm sure you get that a lot too, Eric.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

I do and that's why I think putting it into the structure of either a formal advisor or board I think helps people get their head around to what the expectations are. And I agree in the first, you know, always get a coffee date. And if you walk away from that coffee date being either both really inspired or they were able to push or challenge your thinking, then you know there's somebody that you want in your orbit.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah, right.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Again, get clear on like where you're taking this business. And then when you reach out to, to individuals you want to, you want to really bring, you know, recruit them onto your journey of like, hey, over the next five years we are going to scale this to here. I need, you know, we need an advisor group of three people. We need somebody who really helped, who's been there before and understands how do you scale a service multi unit business like this. I need somebody who really understands finance and how do we best capitalize this business. And something you may want to consider about so you, you, you can scale this without always your equity into it is cpg. You're building a brand that could really build a CPG business. But if you had three people around you, a great finance person, somebody who scaled this type of business before and a CPG person, you kind of recruit them together as a team with you and bring them onto your journey. That may really help what the next three to five years looks like for you.

[Eric Ryan]

Aubrey Olasky, the brand company called Perenne. Congrats. Good luck. It's awesome.

[Maggie Girth]

Thank you so much.

[Eric Ryan]

Thanks.

[Maggie Girth]

Thank you guy. It was such a pleasure.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Incredible. Great to meet you.

[Maggie Girth]

You too. Thanks.

[Eric Ryan]

I love, I mean I know you know this business because you work with flour and water and I in San Francisco and I just love, I love these businesses because they are not cutting corners. Like you can see how they're rolling those croissants and how they're laminating that dough and it's so much work and then it gets sold for a couple of bucks and that's it.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

It's such a bespoke business and the passion and energy that you have to put into this and do it every day and the fact that they're doing it as a married couple with four kids, it's unbelievable. I think I want her as my mentor.

[Eric Ryan]

Right. I know she could really and she will be clearly one day she's going to be mentoring people when she's kind of off the hamster wheel a little bit. But man, I don't think there's a direct flight from Nashville to Reno. So that must be a pretty challenging commute.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

No, but if we're like, I think Perrin has the potential to be a big brand and hopefully just somebody listening there who could reach out and potentially help them on their journey because I think they've got real potential.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, next up after the break, another caller with another business challenge. I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your business questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab. One of the hardest parts about B2B marketing is reaching the right audience. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue, all the professionals you need to reach in one place. Stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign, so you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com builtthis that's LinkedIn.com builtthis Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers. Rates will rise or fall. Inflation's up or down. Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 41,000 businesses have future proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one Cloud ERP bringing accounting, financial management, inventory and HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. With real time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data. When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next. As a business owner myself, I love the idea of having this much clarity and control. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com built. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com built netsuite.com built at How I Built this we meet the people behind the businesses we admire and hear firsthand how they got where they are today. Because every small choice, connection and transaction can mean much more. Our sponsor Mercury, understands just that, that it's more than a deposit into your bank account. It's landing your first fundraise. It's more than an invoice to a customer. It's your hard work becoming revenue. It's more than a wire. It's payroll for your crew. That's why Mercury offers banking that does more than hold money, so businesses of all stages and industries can do more. Businesses like Alma, a legal tech startup, use Mercury to simplify their financial work. Co founder Aizah Murat, a Kyrgyzstan born and Harvard educated attorney, founded Alma after receiving dubious immigration advice that put the brakes on her career. Now her team streamlines immigration for skilled professionals while empowering businesses to recruit and scale seamlessly with global talent. They use Mercury to create and send invoices right from their bank account or bogeybros, the E commerce apparel brand for the golfer who doesn't take themselves too seriously. While Bogeybros are known for their sense of humor, co founder Ryan Rizos doesn't joke about the company's finances. He chose Mercury to set up multiple checking accounts to implement the profit first method of accounting from day one and now uses Mercury's working capital as a cushion for big inventory purchases ahead of sales. Like Black Friday. And Throne, who built a first of its kind that monitors your gut health from your toilet. Co founder Scott Hickel raised two rounds of funding to bring Throne's vision to life. Now by investing their capital with Mercury Treasury, Scott can then invest more into engineering to get Throne just right. Visit mercury.com to see how Mercury brings together all the ways you use money into a single product. That feels extraordinary to use Mercury Banking that does more. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group, Column NA and Evolve bank and Trust Members FDIC Mercury treasury is offered by Mercury Advisory llc, an SEC registered investment advisor and wholly owned subsidiary of Mercury Technologies. Important information and [e-mail] Treasury.

[Eric Ryan]

Welcome back to the Advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and my guest today is Method Olli Welly co founder Eric Ryan. Eric, let's take another call.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

All right, let's do it.

[Eric Ryan]

Hello, welcome to the Advice Line. You're on with Eric Ryan. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

[Matt Engorn]

Hi, my name is Maggie Girth and I'm from Chicago, Illinois and I founded Props Luggage, which is a carry on suitcase that has its own built in leg system. So you no longer need a luggage rack when you travel.

[Eric Ryan]

You basically pull out the legs and you just got, you've got your bag is its own luggage rack. You don't have to bend down to get your stuff. It's just right there.

[Matt Engorn]

It's right there.

[Eric Ryan]

Maggie, it's great to have you on the show. You have been to How I Built the Summits in the past, in 2018 and 2019. You were at the Summits?

[Matt Engorn]

I was there at both summits.

[Eric Ryan]

And you met Eric. Yeah, at our How I Built the Summits.

[Matt Engorn]

Yeah, I did. I met you guy and I met Eric. So this is extremely thrilling. And I'm. I will tell you, I had this idea over years of traveling with four daughters and messy hotel rooms. I thought about it for years and a friend of mine invited me to join her at the summit. And so I went with this idea in my head and went again the next year. And I will say after the second year, I said, okay, it's time for me to.

[Eric Ryan]

I'm in.

[Matt Engorn]

Yes, I did.

[Eric Ryan]

I'm gonna do this. And what were you doing before, before you started this business?

[Matt Engorn]

I was in investment banking out of school. And after our first daughter was born, I decided to stay home. And so basically I was raising my girls. And when they got a little bit older, I decided to just go for it.

[Eric Ryan]

I love it. So you basically started to work on this idea, which now is a real thing. You've sent me one, so thank you for that. I have it. It's awesome. And it's a. You worked, I think you worked with a designer, right, to get, get everything right, like. Cause he wanted the legs to come out. And it's not just a. I think you can like, you can use it at the airport to put like a cup of coffee on it or even your legs to rest on it if you want. Like, I don't think you can sit on it.

[Matt Engorn]

No, but a lot of people. So originally my vision was to use it in hotel rooms because, you know, there's always one luggage rack. But when it was launched, what became even more popular was its use in the airports for people who travel a lot for work or pleasure. You know, how often are we all stranded in the airport for hours? And you know, you kind of, you set it up and you put your laptop on it and you've got your own workstation or you put your meal you Know, you don't want to be juggling your meal on your lap. So it really, it developed a lot more popularity for use in the airports, which was great.

[Eric Ryan]

Tell me. And I think you're mainly selling them direct to consumer, but you are in some stores, I think some boutiques, right?

[Matt Engorn]

Yes. Actually we started out, this has all been self funded.

[Eric Ryan]

Wow.

[Matt Engorn]

Yes.

[F]

Wow.

[Matt Engorn]

My husband has been huge support, so we work together. But we started out direct and then we were lucky enough to be put into the in motion stores in airports.

[Eric Ryan]

Yep.

[Matt Engorn]

We've also, we just recently got into the container store.

[Eric Ryan]

Nice.

[Matt Engorn]

Which is nice.

[Eric Ryan]

Maggie, just very briefly, how are sales doing? I mean, this is a tough category. Right. There are some very, very big players and it is a relatively crowded category, which isn't a problem. But how, you know, you're a small player. How so far, how's it been with sales?

[Matt Engorn]

The first year was a little bit slow because it was all direct on our Instagram. So it was about 50,000 the first year. Then we started to gain a little momentum and now we're on probably this year about 250.

[Eric Ryan]

That's helpful. All right, and your question for us before I bring in Eric.

[Matt Engorn]

So my question is, do I stop the self funding and just realize in order to really move this ahead aggressively, do I decide to take on investors or partner or bank loans?

[Eric Ryan]

All right, Eric Ryan, Lots to ponder, lots to think about.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah. So I think at the heart of it, that's a personal decision. And I've always heard a great expression of you can either go for control or financial win, meaning if you want to just continue to have full control and really build this yourself, it's going to be a slower, longer build, but you can have control. If you want to really scale up, you're going to have to and have a bigger financial win, you're going to have to give up some control. And that's, that's what is required when you bring in partners and advisors. So it really goes back to a very personal question of, of what do you want to do? What type of business do you want to build? There's no right or wrong answer here. I think you've done a great job of disrupting the category with what I call an attribute. But the way you think about attributes, benefits and experiences, I think the opportunity, if you brought in outside capital is how do you turn this into a brand and a product experience that's bigger than just the props on it and whether it's like you're really building a smart suitcase, a Smart way to travel. I might even drop the S and just call it prop. But I think you found a way into the category and a point of differentiation. But for this to be really a long term success, the props is going to have to be just one of the attributes of a smarter way to travel.

[Matt Engorn]

Right?

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And is this patented? Is your design patented? Yes, it is. Okay, so it's a patented design and it's really right now going to appeal to people who also have this same problem. The question is, can you broaden it out to people who don't have this problem? Like some people just don't care. They're just going to throw their suitcase on the ground at the hotel or on the, there's two beds and they just need one. They're going to throw on the other bed. When I think of suitcases that I have that work, I mean, some of them have actually, I guess fewer of them now have the plugs because the airlines don't like that. But just the different pockets or the different compartments or the different ways that they allow you to organize clothing inside. There are other features, the hard case and the hard shell. The look. I think a lot of what differentiates the higher end, the Ramo's from, you know, the others as they, they focus on the design, the look of it. You know, I think those are all things you want to think about. Right. And have you had any interest from, from investors so far? Have you been approached by anybody who said, hey, you know, I think I, this is something I'd like to get involved with.

[Matt Engorn]

We have had a few, but nobody that we've moved forward with. One thing that I would love to ask both of you is, you know, my intent was never to just have a one product. You can't have a brand. So this was never my intent just to have the one carry on suitcase. I always, I have a plan in my head. I've had high demand for the next size from those who have the carry on. They now want the larger case, but then the tariffs just hit. So things have been paused. But to that question, like how important do you think it is to expand the line? You can't just have a company or a brand that has one product.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah, I think it's really, really hard long term to build one product. I think it'd be in one category really well, I think the white space for you too. And some of those brands that Guy just mentioned that are really elevated in design and like to me, but they're at a very high price point. And you have a much more sophisticated customer and a younger customer that is traveling. You know, 20 year olds travel in ways that 20 year olds used not to travel. And so I think you could build, you know, elevate the design. You know, the prop feature is part of this overall more smart approach to baggage. But I think you gotta, you could ladder up, build a bigger brand that feels more elevated but at a affordable price point. I think that that's the real white space opportunity. But yeah, it's gotta be bigger than a product feature and it's gotta be bigger than just one suitcase to build a successful company here.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah, I agree. I would also go back to your original question about whether to seek out help. I think that, look, as you know, being a former investment banker yourself, it's a tough environment now. It's a tough time to raise money in any CPG category. I think, Eric, you can probably attest to that. Although you probably don't have a problem because of your track record.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

It's always hard.

[Eric Ryan]

It's a tough environment now. Right. Money is tight because of uncertainty. Right. Tariffs, economy, what's going to happen? The bond market's scared. But that being said, I mean, you're in Chicago, right. There's a robust sort of network of founders and builders. I was just in Chicago a couple weeks ago and met with some and it's just an awesome hub of entrepreneurship. I mean, if you have conversations and you can start to have conversations around potential partners, I would really consider it, especially if you could find somebody who has some experience in travel or in hospitality, something connected to this space, brand building who can help you sort of develop it. I think that it might be worth thinking about bringing somebody on if you can find it.

[Matt Engorn]

Right, right.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

And to build on that, you don't have to make the decision to raise capital. You can make the decision just to go explore it. So plan A could be to continue to bootstrap it and grow it organically. And then to guy's point, go out there, really socialize and see if you find a partner that would be a great fit that you're inspired by. And then you can make the decision whether you take the capital or not.

[Matt Engorn]

Right. I would also be open to the idea and I would love your thoughts on just licensing the leg system idea to larger brands.

[Eric Ryan]

I think it's a great thing to explore for sure. What do you think, Eric?

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah, I think it's free cash flow, so that's always a great, a great thing. Less likely to get knocked off and somebody trying to work around your patent if they're just able to access it. And, and I think it'll put pressure on you to build Props into something bigger than just that feature if you're going to be able to license it to others. So and same thing, like you don't have to make the choice to do or not. You just make the choice to go explore it, see what opportunities come along and then you can make the decision to execute a deal like that or not. But free cash flow for a founder like all day long, right?

[Eric Ryan]

Maggie Earth. The brand is called Props Luggage. Maggie, thank you so much for calling in. Thanks so much for coming to the summits and keep us posted.

[Matt Engorn]

Thank you so appreciate both of you and I hope you have another summit.

[Eric Ryan]

I hope so too.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Great to meet you, Maggie.

[Guy Raz]

All right, thanks Maggie.

[Matt Engorn]

Nice to meet you too.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah, I do not. I can't remember last time I checked a bag.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah, no, I think checking a bag is a failure as a traveler. I think I fell in love with my wife when I did our first trip together and I saw how small her carry on was.

[Guy Raz]

Stay with us because after the break we'll talk to another founder working to take their business to the the next level.

[Eric Ryan]

That's after the break.

[Guy Raz]

I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the advice line right here on How I built this lab. Did you know that 2 in 5 homeowners experience water leak damage? That means nearly half of us are at risk of experiencing catastrophic water damage, whether it's a slow hidden leak or a sudden pipe burst. And the worst part, most people don't realize they have a water leak until it's too late. That's why I have the Moen Flow Smart Water Monitor and Shutoff, a smart device that helps you better your odds against water damage before it happens. MoenFlow has FlowSense technology and uses AI to analyze your water usage patterns and runs daily microleak tests to detect any irregular activity, including leaks as small as a drop per minute. Moenflow sends real time alerts straight to your phone if it detects any abnormal activity and automatically shuts off your water if it senses a catastrophic is about to occur. And the app is super simple and super easy to use. Visit moen.com flow to learn how to protect your home and help stop leaks before they start. That's M-O-E-N.com Flo because when it comes to water damage, Moen knows it's not about luck. It's about being prepared. Automatic shutoff and real time alert capabilities will operate when the device is configured with the proper settings. Can AI predict the source of the next global pandemic? Or at least help convince a Hollywood.

[Eric Ryan]

Studio to buy a new screenplay from.

[Guy Raz]

Scott Z. Burns, the writer of Contagion.

[Eric Ryan]

With special guest appearances from director Steven.

[Guy Raz]

Soderbergh, Laurence Fishburne and Jennifer Ely.

[Eric Ryan]

Don't miss what Could Go Wrong, a deeply thoughtful, occasionally frightening and often hilarious.

[Guy Raz]

Audible original podcast that delves head and heart first into today's best burning question. Can humankind and AI actually work hand in hand? Follow Scott and an ever expanding cast.

[Eric Ryan]

Of AI generated partners including Lexter, an extraordinarily gifted sharp tongued AI as they.

[Guy Raz]

Co write and pitch Hollywood execs the Contagion sequel. Hear what Could Go Wrong now on audible.

[Eric Ryan]

Go to audible.com what could go Wrong? The next act begins with a prompt. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking your calls with Eric Ryan, brand builder extraordinaire. Eric, let's get back to it and take another call.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

All right, let's do it.

[Eric Ryan]

Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Eric Ryan. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business.

[F]

Yeah. Hi Guy. Hi Eric. Thrilled to be here. I'm Matt Engorn calling from Scottsdale, Arizona. I am co founder of FlipKnits 3 in 1 adventure gloves. Flipknit switch or flip between a mitten, a fingerless glove and sweatpants. They help you stay warm when you're cold and dry when you're hot.

[Eric Ryan]

So wait, like sweatpants for your hand basically? Is that what you're saying?

[F]

Yeah, yeah. Sweatbands.

[Eric Ryan]

So they sweat bands? Sweatbands.

[F]

Sweatbands, yeah. So they wear gloves.

[Eric Ryan]

I was like sweatpants?

[F]

Yeah. They convert to mittens.

[Eric Ryan]

Oh wow.

[F]

For like running and then yeah, they just slide them down and you're wearing the sweatbands and they keep you dry or act as a hand towel when you're running.

[Eric Ryan]

Okay, so this is a flip mitt. It's like a glove that opens up and then it can just. Your fingers are free or it can go on your wrist. Tell me what, just before I ask you about the business, what are the use cases here?

[F]

Yeah, so we initially created this for trail runners, was kind of our original case. You'd go running on a cold morning, your hands would be freezing, but then very quickly your hands get sweaty. You're looking for a place to put your gloves. And then at the end of your run, you've got soggy gloves and cold hands. And so this actually transitions through the whole run. It keeps you warm in the beginning, it keeps you dry in the middle of your run. And then at the end of your run, you can just slide them back on and then to keep your hands warm again.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah, I like that. I lived on the East Coast 10 years ago. I lived in Washington, DC. I used to love those freezing cold mornings, like 18, 19 degrees to take runs in. I just run better in them. But your hands, it's torture, right? They're so cold. But then when you warm up, obviously it's better. So that's where the idea came from. This was a problem you had?

[F]

Yeah, yeah, this was a problem I had. I used to run around in the trails in New Jersey and I just. My hands were. And I always had cold hands. I would wear fingerless gloves inside. I would buy them by packs of 12 and lose them. And so the ability to always have them on your wrist when you want them and then just slide them back onto your hand ended up having a lot of other value, too.

[Eric Ryan]

So tell me about where you're selling the Flipknits now. Like, where can you get them?

[F]

Sure. So primarily via Our Shopify store, flipknits.com we're also on Amazon and we're on QVC. We actually did a test run with QVC in January that went fairly well. So those are the three primary places we've gone out and visited Walmart. The real challenge there has been we've gotten a lot of great feedback from interest from retailers, but they don't really know where to put our product. Is it for runners? Is it for cyclists? Is it for hiking? And so that's kind of one of the challenges I'm calling about.

[Eric Ryan]

And tell me a little bit about sales. I mean, how are you doing so far? How are you doing this year?

[F]

Yeah, so it's been a roller coaster chasing inventory like so many different companies that call in. But we really. Well, we've done a little over 600,000 in sales to date.

[Eric Ryan]

That's over the course of your whole. Your whole business.

[F]

Yeah, yeah. About half of that came in 2024. So we kind of, you know, started off with one color, two sizes. We scaled to four sizes and four colors. And then we started launching graphics like skeleton hands and rainbows and trying to make it more fun. And so, yeah, and then we launched heavyweight sports last year. And then we're launching Sun Gloves this summer for sun and sweat. And we've been doing events, going to running events, and the feedback's been great. We've had customers buy 10, 12, 12 times.

[Eric Ryan]

Is this design patented at all?

[F]

We've got trademarks and copyrights, but very difficult to patent apparel.

[Guy Raz]

Yes.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Has anybody knocked you off yet?

[F]

Not yet. Waiting for it, worried.

[Eric Ryan]

Hopefully it doesn't happen. What question do you have or challenge are you facing?

[F]

Yeah, I would love your advice on scaling beyond Shopify and Amazon. Right. I did some boutique stores running cycling. In the beginning they were excited, but they didn't really move. And it does really well when I can explain it to people. People just go, oh, I get it when I give them a demo. But the moving it on, off the. Off the shelves on their own has been difficult. We have improved the packaging, we've put the photos of the product on the packaging. But I do wonder if we needed to take it to another level. Just kind of curious what kind of advice you would have for me on that.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah. First of all, like, seeing this is like, why did nobody think of this before? It's pretty genius.

[F]

Thank you.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

I think a couple ways to think about it. So I heard your problem before of like in conversations with Walmart and where, where does it go in the store and looking at your site, and to your point too, there's this, this consumer education, and I always look for things that, like, hit that intersection of novel and familiar. And you've got a really, really novel, obviously, approach to gloves. It takes some education. So I think for retail to work, you've got to be able to really put it into that space of familiarity. And possibly maybe the right way to do that is you create different versions of it, targeting different use occasions. So if you were to go into Walmart, so you've got a sport version that can live in the sports section that's calling out specifically for runners. Maybe you've got one that goes in a hunting section. Maybe you've got a seasonal one that comes out when the winter gloves and sits in the winter gloves.

[Eric Ryan]

Oh, yeah, I like that.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

So that way says that familiarity of like, I'm buying gloves. Oh. And then the novelty of like, oh, this is a different type of glove.

[Eric Ryan]

I love that idea of thinking about different ways. And you are doing some of that already, I think, Matt.

[F]

Yeah, yeah. And I love that approach. And you totally nailed it. Right. I've got hunters, cyclists, I have tattoo artists, people from all walks of life. Anytime your hands are cold and you want control, we have nurses that use them because you can wear them underneath rubber gloves. And so they are so adaptable. So I love that idea of packaging them for specific activities versus just doing infographic after infographic which is kind of the approach I've had so far.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

And you could call it like the runner's glove or the hunter's glove, but also too, you've kind of created the world's most versatile glove. I feel like you need to kind of ladder this up to the world's best at something.

[F]

Yeah, I go back and forth between the age old wisdom of like find your tribe and grow your tribe and really try and you know, grow with their needs versus this product that can go so many different ways. And I kind of look at like Crocs, I feel like as a similar example sometimes where it's kind of different, it's still a shoe but it's different. And trying to take what I can learn from that.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah. And I wonder whether you could do more of a weightlifting glove that has like grips on it. You know, something that is really designed for weights or for the bar, but gripped.

[F]

Yeah. Yeah, I love that idea. I've done leather prototype palms and I've tried to do the grip one we've been trying to produce in North America and I haven't been able to do find how to do the grip in North America. So if anybody's listening, call me. That can do that. But yeah, I love that idea. I've had rock climbers ask for extra grading on the side for rock abrasion and things like that. And so that's absolutely where I'd love to go. And it's been chasing that inventory and having that. We were sold out for almost all of January and just trying to get it back in stock before the season warmed up was, was a heart attack for myself and my partner.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah. Looking at, I was debating whether you should ladder up and build a brand because Flipbits is I think you're most more like a flip flop than a croc. And Flipnuts feels it's very much a product brand. And I was debating in my head like okay, should you go up and build a brand above and then Flipnuts is your product brand but I don't know what you'd ladder up to and I think I would do the opposite. I would like ladder down of what you're talking about. Be hyper specialized. So build, build these hyper specialized use uses just like you said. And also licensing could be really, I mean University of Michigan flip mitts Available in the stadium, you know, starting in late October and, like, look for those, you know, I think licensing also could be a great way to open up some of these usage occasions. But I would go hyper specialized.

[F]

I love that.

[Eric Ryan]

And we've had some. Some small businesses on this show that have done licensing deals with big schools. It's possible to do. It's not as onerous as one might imagine, and that's a great idea.

[F]

I love that. I do imagine it to be incredibly onerous, but I do think it's an amazing opportunity and I appreciate the encouragement.

[Eric Ryan]

The brand is called Flip Mitts. Matt Anghorn, thanks for calling in. Congrats. Good luck.

[F]

Thank you so much. Guy and Eric, appreciate it.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Great to meet you.

[F]

Likewise.

[Eric Ryan]

Are you a runner? Are you a runner? I can't remember.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Only when chased.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

I should run more.

[Eric Ryan]

Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. It's okay. I just did a long run the other day and I jacked up my Achilles heel and now I can't run, so I gotta wait for five days for it to heal up.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Isn't over 50 fun?

[Eric Ryan]

It's so fun. So fun.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

But I go to CrossFit. I work out a lot, but I don't know, running isn't.

[Eric Ryan]

That's good. That's very good. You can wear flip minutes next time.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

I know it's kind of like one of those things, like, why did nobody think of that before? A lot of inventions today.

[Eric Ryan]

A lot of inventions. Cool, right? Eric, before I let you go, a quick question that I ask everyone who comes on the show, which is now, with all of this experience, you know, as you become a wise old man, what would you have said to you, you know, when you're 22, 23, starting method 24. I can't. You're so young when you started that brand out with Adam. If you go back and say, hey, I'm going to give you a piece of advice. Here it is.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

It would have been my relationship to time. Be much more patient and don't be in such a rush. Building strong foundations takes time in entrepreneurship, but also at the same time, treat your time as what it is, the most precious, scarce commodity that you have. And I think pacing as an entrepreneurship is one of the biggest challenges. And I think it's a theme we heard today. If you really get to the heart of a lot of what everybody was struggling with, whether I take capital, how fast do I grow? It's really about the right pacing of building a business.

[Eric Ryan]

That's Eric Ryan, the man behind the brands Method, Ollie Welly and so many others. Eric, it's great, great having you on the show. Thanks so much for coming on.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Always a pleasure, guy. Thank you.

[Eric Ryan]

And by the way, if you haven't heard Eric's original How I Built this episode, you gotta go back and check it out. We'll put a link to it in the podcast description. And here's one of my favorite moments from that interview.

[Guy Raz]

I read at one point, Eric, that to prove that this really was non toxic, you actually drank it.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

Yeah. So I was in London, you know, I love the British press, they're so skeptical. And she said, is it, you know, safe enough to drink? I was like, sure. So we both took a shot at the toilet bowl cleaner.

[Guy Raz]

Okay.

[Aubrey Wolaski]

And then I immediately text Adam. Finally he got back to me and was like, hey, just drink the toilet bowl cleaner. I'm gonna be okay. Right?

[Guy Raz]

Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for [e-mail] each week. It's packed with tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions you'd like help with, and hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice [e-mail] or call us at 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there and we'll put all this in the podcast description as well.

[Eric Ryan]

This episode was produced by Kathryn Seifer with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce.

[Guy Raz]

Our audio engineer was Neil Rauch.

[Eric Ryan]

Our production staff also includes Chris masini, Alex Chung, J.C. howard, Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, Sam Paulson, Kerry Thompson, John Isabella, Neva Grant and Elaine Coates.

[Guy Raz]

I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built this.

[Eric Ryan]

If you like How I Built this.

[Guy Raz]

You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey this episode is brought to you by workhuman HR just changed for good with the introduction of human intelligence by combining AI and the uniquely authentic data of Workhuman's number one rated employee recognition platform. Human Intelligence helps you discover what good looks like in your company with previously unobtainable insights into skills, performance, culture and more. Human Intelligence also helps coach employees on what good peer to peer recognition looks like, turning every good job into better engagement, retention and well being. And it helps surface feel good stories that illustrate the best of your company culture. In short, it's how today's leading companies are turning AI into a force for good. Learn about human [e-mail].