Advice Line with Jeff and Curran Dandurand of Jack Black Skin Care

Summary

How I Built This with Guy Raz: Advice Line with Jeff and Curran Dandurand of Jack Black Skincare

Release Date: April 3, 2025

In this engaging episode of How I Built This with Guy Raz, host Guy Raz reconnects with Jeff and Curran Dandurand, the visionary co-founders of Jack Black Skincare. Originally guests on the show in 2023, Jeff and Curran delve deep into their entrepreneurial journey, offering invaluable insights and advice to budding business owners navigating the challenges of building a brand in a saturated market.

Revisiting the Journey: Jeff and Curran Reflect on Jack Black Skincare

Launching in a Niche Market

Jeff and Curran founded Jack Black Skincare in 2000, targeting the then-neglected men's skincare sector. At a time when men's grooming products were scarce, their innovative approach set them apart. Guy Raz highlights their unique branding inspiration, noting how "cigar labels on old cigar boxes... really helped you gain traction with the brand" ([04:05] Curran Dandurand).

Challenges in a Crowded Market Today

Reflecting on the current landscape, Jeff admits, “I really do think it'd be very, very hard to start a men's skincare company today” ([05:23] Jeff Dandurand). The proliferation of skincare brands and the dominance of direct-to-consumer strategies have significantly reduced retail shelf space, making it increasingly difficult for new entrants to gain visibility and traction.

Wholesale vs. Direct-to-Consumer Strategies

Guy Raz probes whether Jeff and Curran would adopt the same wholesale approach if they were starting today. Curran emphasizes the importance of a dual strategy: “For a strong brand, you need to have both. You need to be in brick and mortar and you need to have a strong presence online” ([06:18] Curran Dandurand). This balanced approach allows consumers to experience the product firsthand while maintaining an online presence for broader reach.

Beyond Jack Black: Current Ventures of Jeff and Curran

After stepping away from Jack Black Skincare post-acquisition, Jeff and Curran have ventured into new entrepreneurial efforts. Jeff’s son, Dylan, launched Not Beer, a sparkling water brand with the personality of a beer, aiming to provide a socially enjoyable alternative without alcohol. Curran is actively involved in branding and product development for Not Beer, while also serving on boards of various women’s beauty brands, drawing from his extensive experience in beauty marketing and product development.

Helping Fellow Entrepreneurs: The Advice Line Segment

The heart of this episode lies in the interactive Advice Line, where Jeff and Curran assist aspiring entrepreneurs with real-time business challenges.

Caller #1: Inga Potter of Cold Current Kelp

Business Overview

Inga Potter, co-founder of Cold Current Kelp, a Maine-based kelp farm and skincare company, seeks guidance on business development. Their flagship product, Kelp Glow, is a facial oil infused with regenerative kelp extract, launched in August 2023.

Challenges and Questions

Inga is grappling with:

• Deciding when and how to seek investment.
• Expanding their product line.
• Balancing marketing investments with organic growth.

Expert Advice

Curran advises focusing on sales and finding advisors experienced in bootstrapping beauty brands: “You need to focus on sales because nothing really happens until you sell something” ([13:59] Curran Dandurand). Jeff underscores the importance of a robust sales process, suggesting participation in trade shows and leveraging independent sales contractors to open new retail accounts ([15:06] Jeff Dandurand).

Guy Raz adds, “There is a strong community of entrepreneurs in Maine... cold contacting some Maine-based founders could yield supportive mentorship” ([16:12] Guy Raz).

Recommended Strategies

• Trade Shows and Independent Contractors: Actively participate in industry trade shows to network and showcase products.
• Local Collaborations: Utilize Maine's entrepreneurial community for mentorship and partnership opportunities.
• Clinical Validation: Conduct affordable clinical studies to demonstrate product efficacy and enhance credibility ([17:44] Curran Dandurand).

Caller #2: Ashley Gold of Aum Attend

Business Overview

Ashley Gold, founder of Aum Attend, an everyday luxury home and tableware brand, focuses on high-quality, small-batch products ranging from ceramics to glassware. Launched recently, the business has achieved modest sales of $25,000 in its first year.

Challenges and Questions

Ashley seeks advice on:

• Identifying and reaching the right customer base.
• Deciding between expanding product lines versus focusing on hero products.
• Balancing direct-to-consumer sales with retail partnerships.

Expert Advice

Curran highlights the importance of the Pareto Principle: “First they gotta fall in love with your product... focus on your hero products” ([27:29] Curran Dandurand). Emphasizing a streamlined product line can reduce inventory costs and simplify the customer decision-making process.

Recommended Strategies

• Retail Partnerships: Target high-end local boutiques and resorts to allow customers to physically experience the products.
• Community Engagement: Host in-store events and collaborate with local businesses to build brand presence.
• Selective Product Expansion: Focus on expanding colorways or variants of best-selling products rather than launching numerous new items.

Caller #3: Brent Frisker of GoSo Cookware

Business Overview

Brent Frisker, founder of GoSo Cookware, offers premium camp cookware designed for outdoor enthusiasts who love both cooking and camping. Their flagship product, the Everywhere Pan, features a carbon steel design with removable handles for compact storage.

Challenges and Questions

Brent is keen on building a cult-like community around his product, GoSo Cookware, encapsulated in the motto "Get Outside, Stay Outside."

Expert Advice

Curran suggests enhancing the website with compelling content and user-generated stories to foster community ([42:44] Curran Dandurand). Jeff recommends leveraging local outdoor events to demonstrate the product’s value and engage directly with the target audience ([34:14] Jeff Dandurand).

Recommended Strategies

• Content Marketing: Develop recipes, cooking tips, and outdoor adventure stories to attract and engage customers.
• Local Engagement: Organize cooking demonstrations at popular trailheads and outdoor events to showcase product functionality and build brand loyalty.
• Merchandising: Introduce branded apparel like T-shirts to strengthen community identity and awareness.

Lessons Learned: Reflections from Jeff and Curran

As the episode wraps up, Jeff and Curran offer reflective insights based on their entrepreneurial experiences:

Curran's Takeaways:

• Hiring Diligently: “You need to do background checks on people” to avoid the pitfalls of hiring unsuitable team members early on ([50:15] Curran Dandurand).
• Due Diligence with Partners: Ensuring retailers and distributors align with the brand to prevent disingenuous partnerships ([50:15] Curran Dandurand).

Jeff's Takeaways:

• Inventory Management: Being cautious with inventory to prevent cash flow issues, recounting his regret over excessive stock ([51:25] Jeff Dandurand).
• Product Knowledge: Deepening understanding of product formulations to enhance sales effectiveness and credibility ([51:25] Jeff Dandurand).

Both emphasize the importance of perseverance and self-confidence: “You just have to have confidence in yourself that you'll figure it out” ([51:48] Curran Dandurand).

Conclusion: Empowering the Next Generation of Entrepreneurs

This episode serves as a masterclass in entrepreneurship, blending personal anecdotes with practical advice. Jeff and Curran’s experiences underscore the significance of strategic planning, community building, and resilience in overcoming business challenges. Aspiring entrepreneurs glean actionable strategies on navigating competitive markets, optimizing product lines, and fostering authentic brand communities.

For those looking to embark on their own entrepreneurial journeys, this episode offers a treasure trove of wisdom, demonstrating that with the right mindset and support, building an iconic brand is an achievable feat.

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Notable Quotes:

• Curran Dandurand ([04:05]): "No relation. But a great guy. Seems like a great guy actually. I've interviewed him before. He's an amazing guy."
• Jeff Dandurand ([05:23]): "I really do think it'd be very, very hard to start a men's skincare company today."
• Curran Dandurand ([06:18]): "For a strong brand, you need to have both. You need to be in brick and mortar and you need to have a strong presence online."
• Curran Dandurand ([13:59]): "You need to focus on sales because nothing really happens until you sell something."
• Curran Dandurand ([27:29]): "I like this idea of potentially narrowing down... simplify the number of products that we offer."
• Curran Dandurand ([50:15]): "You need to do background checks on people... do more due diligence on retailers, distributors."

Key Insights:

• Balancing online presence with physical retail partnerships is crucial in saturated markets.
• Focusing on hero products can streamline operations and enhance brand identity.
• Building a community around a brand fosters loyalty and organic growth.

Actionable Advice:

• Participate in trade shows and leverage independent sales contractors for product distribution.
• Engage local communities and utilize user-generated content to build brand authenticity.
• Conduct affordable clinical studies to validate product efficacy and strengthen market credibility.

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Note: This summary is based on the transcript provided and adheres to the user’s instructions to omit advertisements, intros, and non-content sections.

Transcript

[Guy Raz]

Wondery subscribers can listen to how I built this early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Peloton has what you need to achieve your fitness goals. No matter why you got started. From four week strength building classes to running indoor and outdoor workouts and everything in between, Peloton will push you to achieve your goals. Peloton also helps you get stronger with workout generators and personalized programs on the peloton Tread and StrengthPlus app. It's backed by thousands of members whose lives have been changed by Peloton and the community around it. Find your push Find your power with [e-mail] this episode is sponsored by Canva. If you make decks at work, you should make the Switch to Canva Presentations. Canva Presentations might be the most visually impressive presentations you'll ever use. Start with a stunning template, drag and drop images, graphics, charts and data visualizations from Canva's massive media library. Add animations plus interactive polls and quizzes to really set your slides apart. Built in AI also lets you generate slides and text in seconds from a prompt and you can share your Canva presentations with anyone and instantly collaborate in real time. Canva is used by 95% of Fortune 500 companies. Whether you work at a small or big company, in a team of two or two thousand, Canva empowers workplaces everywhere to create captivating presentations, save time and be more productive together. You'll love the presentations you can easily design with Canva. Your audience will too. Love your work with canva [e-mail] Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.

[Curran Dandurand]

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[Guy Raz]

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[Curran Dandurand]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3.

[Guy Raz]

Month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges and each week I'm joined by a legendary founder of former guests on the show who will help me try to help you. And so if you are building something and you need advice, go ahead and give us a call and you might just be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a 1 minute message with your name, a bit about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. Or you can send us a voice memo@hibtid wondery.com and make sure to tell us how to reach you. Also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's filled with insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for [e-mail] or on substack and we'll put all all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's go. Joining me this week are Jeff and Kuran Dandurand, co founders of Jack Black Skincare. Jeff and Curran, it's great to have you back on the show.

[Curran Dandurand]

Great to be here.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Thanks for having us. Good to see you again.

[Guy Raz]

Great to see you. You, of course, were guests on How I Built this originally in 2023. And if you guys haven't heard that episode, we will put a link in the podcast description. You guys launched this business in 2000 as a men's skincare brand. And this is back when almost nobody was thinking about the, the men's skincare market. And I, we should be clear because I know this sometimes comes up, this is not the same name as the well known actor. You guys came up with that name independently. Just to confirm.

[Curran Dandurand]

Absolutely right. No relation.

[Guy Raz]

No relation. But a great, but a great guy. Seems like a great guy actually. I've interviewed him before. He's an amazing guy. There are so many awesome lessons in that episode, including how you like targeted golf clubs and men's locker rooms and sort of higher end gyms and, and how you sort of were inspired by cigar labels on old cigar boxes and how that really helped you gain traction with the brand. And again, we will put a link to that episode in the podcast description. But before we get to our callers today, I was hoping if I could ask you guys a couple of questions. So, you know, just sort of thinking about skincare. It is an incredibly crowded market, right? Even more skincare brands for men now than there were when you guys launched in 2000. And while it's not the same type of crowding as the women's skincare market, there's still a lot more competitors. So if you were starting Jack Black today, you know, it's a different environment. Do you think you would use the same playbook or do you think you might do things a little bit differently?

[Jeff Dandurand]

I think it'd be very difficult to start a men's skincare brand today. The space is very crowded. I've noticed going into stores that the retail space allowed for men's skin care has shrunk. I think a lot of that's because of the direct to consumer strategy that most brands take.

[Guy Raz]

Yes.

[Jeff Dandurand]

So there's less space available. Honestly, I don't think I would do it again. I think that our timing was so good. I just think it'd be very, very hard to start a men's skincare company today. I really do. And gain traction and build a big brand.

[Guy Raz]

Do you think that. I mean, obviously there's two ways of going about it. You guys started with the sort of the wholesale approach. Right. Trying to sell to boutiques and then department stores. But a lot of brands we talk to on the show are really focused on direct to consumer. Harder today than it was 10 years ago. Right. Because there are so many brands are doing this. But we have had, you know, recently we've told the story of a brand called Beyond Yoga, which really started back in 2005 as a wholesale brand, you know, really selling through retailers. I mean, it's almost counterintuitive, but do you think that if you were trying to start it today, you would still go with the wholesale route, still trying to sell it in retail?

[Curran Dandurand]

I think so. I think for a strong brand, you need to have both. You need to be in brick and mortar and you need to have a strong presence online because people do want to touch and feel and try the product and they want to experience it before they buy it. So I think, you know, the successful brands in the long term are going to be able to play well in both areas.

[Guy Raz]

You know, I know that both of you guys stepped away from the company a few years after it was acquired. Tell me a little bit about some of the things that you guys are up to. I mean, I know you're in Dallas. There's a lot of startups there. You're probably asked to come to all kinds of startup events and talk about what you built. You know, what. What kinds of things are you guys up to?

[Jeff Dandurand]

Our son Dylan started a company. He's called Not Beer, and Curran is helping him with the branding on that. I've helped him a little bit with the distribution side of it.

[Guy Raz]

And from what I understand, not beer is sparkling water.

[Curran Dandurand]

Right, right. But with a fun beer like positioning and personality. Yeah. So socially, it's really fun to drink when you don't want to drink a beer, but you feel like you're drinking a beer. And I think from the product standpoint, it's got a really smooth, mellow carbonation. So it's a lot easier to drink than say, Topo Chico. And he's already gotten some good distribution. So he's in what I call the dark days of a startup. There's a lot of heavy lifting and a lot of setbacks and a lot of tough sledding. But we've been there and so we can advise them on how to stay resilient and focused. I'm on a couple of boards of beauty companies, all women's brands.

[Guy Raz]

And you go way back in this industry because you were, you know, obviously had 15 years of experience in the industry even before you start more before you started Jack Black.

[Curran Dandurand]

Yep. Many decades. That's pretty much all I've done is beauty, beauty marketing, product development and branding.

[Guy Raz]

It's a really, really fascinating category. And we do, as you know, we do a lot of it on the show. Are you guys ready to take some calls?

[Jeff Dandurand]

Sure, let's do it.

[Curran Dandurand]

Yep, looking forward to it.

[Guy Raz]

All right, let's bring in our first caller. Hello, welcome to Advice Line. You're on with Jeff and Kern Danderand of Jack Black. Welcome to the show. Tell us your name, where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business.

[Inga Potter]

Hi guy, Jeff and Karen. It's so nice to be here. My name is Inga Potter. I'm calling from Kittery, Maine. I'm the co founder of Cold Current Kelp. We're a woman founded Kelp Farm and skincare company. We grow kelp regeneratively off the coast of Maine and we use our kelp to make our skincare products Amazing.

[Guy Raz]

Perfect people to have on. So tell me a little bit more about Cold Current kelp. So you harvest kelp off the coast of Maine and then you turn that into like creams or what? Like what are the products?

[Inga Potter]

So we make an extract from the kelp and we currently our product is a facial oil. It's called Kelp Glow. So we make it with nourishing oils that are great for your skin. We infuse our kelp extract into the oil. We have three scents and two sizes and that's, that's our product as of now. We launched in August of 2023 and.

[Guy Raz]

Selling directly to consumers through your website.

[Inga Potter]

We sell directly to consumers and we're currently in about 20 boutiques and a few small spas and Stores.

[Guy Raz]

Inge, before we bring Jeff and Corinne, tell us a little bit about how this started. How did you get into this? Do you have a background in skincare?

[Inga Potter]

No, actually I'm a marine biologist by background.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, that's a good background to be involved in sea kelp harvesting.

[Inga Potter]

Yes, exactly. So sort of what drew me first to the business is actually the environmental benefits of. Of growing kelp and farming kelp. And it's a really exciting and growing industry in Maine. So that was sort of the initial draw. But once my co founder's name is Krista Rose, and once we started doing some research about kelp, learning about all of these amazing bioactive compounds, we got really excited about finding some other high value uses for it besides just the dinner plate. So we found a lot of scientific research and evidence about the benefits of kelp for your skin and for your health. And we decided that a skincare product was an achievable goal. And that's sort of how we framed our company.

[Guy Raz]

That's super cool. And tell us what your question is for us today.

[Inga Potter]

So my question is we are sort of in those dark days, as Kiran referred to, where we're really just kind of very hands on and doing everything. But we're wondering about the role of advisors in business development, given the stage of growth our company is in. We're facing a lot of really critical decisions about expanding our product line, about whether or not we seek investment. We're doing some R and D. We have a lot of questions, and we're just sort of wondering what role at this stage advisors should play and how we obtain them and how do we choose them and sort of what capacity, what that should look like.

[Guy Raz]

All right, and you said about 18 months in. What have you guys done in sales so far?

[Inga Potter]

We've done about 50,000 in the last 12 months. We're growing really organically. We haven't invested anything in marketing, so we're actually seeing a lot of growth. We're getting a lot of earned media, so we're getting some great news coverage. We've earned some government grants. So we're getting a lot of attention and people are enjoying our product, and that's kind of where we are.

[Guy Raz]

All right, let me bring Jeff and Corinne. And Corinne first to you. I'm sure you may have some questions for Inga. Please, fire away.

[Curran Dandurand]

Okay, first of all, I love your concept. Bravo. I think it's brilliant. And I think you've got a lot of potential. I think my question to you is, where do you need Help expertise are you lacking? Because that's where you start, right?

[Inga Potter]

Yeah, that's a great question. My co founder, business partner is a former attorney so she brings a different skill set than I do. But we've never had a business, never had a skincare company. So I think some of our critical questions have to do with right now we have one flagship product which we manufacture on our own. We're looking to figure out sort of how to expand our product line. Do we seek a manufacturer to do that? That's one of our biggest questions. Seeking investment is another question. When to do that, how to go about doing it? I would say those are kind of two of our biggest questions. And also like a marketing, how much should we be investing in marketing versus sort of the organic growth that we're seeing just by doing our own social media and things like that. So kind of everything.

[Curran Dandurand]

I mean, I think you could benefit from having an advisor that has started a company in the, in the beauty space and has done it kind of bootstrapping with a lean staff, not a lot of financing. And how did they grow it? What decisions did they make, what trade offs did they make? I mean, I feel like you need to focus on sales because nothing really happens until you sell something and you've got a great brand, you got a great story, but you got to get it out there. And I think sales is super important, maybe even more so than marketing because you need to get distribution, you need to figure out how to place your product in the right retailers.

[Jeff Dandurand]

How are you opening retail stores today? What's your process to opening up the retail partners you have today?

[Inga Potter]

That is such a great question. Neither of us are particularly great at the selling point, so I really appreciate Curran's advice on that and I know Jeff, you are so talented at that as well. We've done a couple of trade shows. That's where we've gotten the majority of our retailers. We're also on a platform called Fair, so people are reaching out to us because they're finding us on Fair, which is kind of a platform where, you know, you can put your company and your products and retailers can find you. We've done a little bit of cold calling. We really would like to get into the spa market, but we're, we're not, we don't really have much of a process, I guess is the long answer to that question.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Yeah, I mean the sales process is going to be, you know, critical at this point in your development, I think. You know, going to gift shows, going to spa shows, Hiring independent contractors, salespeople to help you, you know, anything that you can do to drive sales.

[Inga Potter]

How much emphasis would you put on sort of the trade show circuit versus kind of choosing companies and approaching them because they look like they align with our brand and investing in that?

[Jeff Dandurand]

I think you have to do both. I think you have to cold call and try to connect with, with retailers that you think would be a good fit for your brand. I think you need to, you know, try to find salespeople that have similar type products that they're selling. They may be able to bring your brand in to sell as well. I mean, most of these salespeople are on straight commission. They're paid usually 15% of the wholesale order. So you don't have a lot of expense associated with having these people. But I think you got to really focus on opening up some accounts at this point.

[Inga Potter]

Okay, I appreciate that. So are there freelance salespeople then that.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Could represent multiple brands?

[Inga Potter]

Okay, okay.

[Jeff Dandurand]

And off groups we could do this. Yeah, Independent rep groups all over the country and we used them to help us build and open up accounts for Jack Black. I mean, we had almost 1000 accounts like that and you know, over the.

[Inga Potter]

Course of years, so even if we're small, they would still kind of represent us.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Maybe, maybe not. I think you have to have a, you know, a good story. You have to be persistent. You have to, you know, follow up with them even when they say no. You have to go to shows on your own without, without a rep group. You just have to talk to your existing retail partners and say, who's your best salesperson? I mean, you know, the retail account you have today, I think I saw 20 on your website. You know, whatever the best account is, I would go to that account and say, who's your best salesperson that comes in here and sells you product? That's the person that you need to talk to.

[Inga Potter]

Okay, that's great advice.

[Guy Raz]

You asked Inga about advisors and mentors and one thought I had was, you're in Maine. There is a, like in any state, and particularly Maine, where people really are proud of being Mainers, there's going to be a strong community of entrepreneurs. I mean, we've had, you know, Tom Chappell who founded Tom's Main, and Roxanne Quimby who founded Burt's Bees. I mean, it might be worthwhile just going on LinkedIn and cold, you know, cold contacting some Maine based founders that have managed to build an interesting business because, especially in the personal care space, because I think that could get. Goes pretty far. You know, people are hearing about another main based entrepreneur, they want to help you. And you'd be surprised at how many people will say, sure, I'll hop on a call.

[Inga Potter]

Okay. I love that. I love that. Yeah, those are definitely inspirational stories. So that's great advice, too. Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

One of the things that I'd love to see on your website is just, it's really cool, the video of you guys harvesting the kelp. And that's awesome. And I would keep that exactly how it is, but I would love to see just what it does for the skin. I'd love to see something like that.

[Inga Potter]

Okay, great. Yeah, we tried to include a section about the benefits of kelp and skin care, but maybe we need to do it a little more visually. Is that what you're suggesting?

[Guy Raz]

I think so, yeah.

[Inga Potter]

Okay. Okay, great.

[Guy Raz]

I think so for sure.

[Curran Dandurand]

Or even you could do a small clinical study that shows your product.

[Inga Potter]

Oh, gosh.

[Curran Dandurand]

And how it works and the before and afters and the measurements of the, you know, elasticity and the, you know, fine lines and wrinkles and hyperpigmentation. You really need to establish the efficacy of kelp for your product. I know you cited all the research, which is great, and that's very legit, but you want to talk about your product and how it works?

[Inga Potter]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Curran Dandurand]

And I'd also show your reviews. I see you have the stars, but you can't drill into it and read the reviews.

[Inga Potter]

Okay, so put more details about the reviews. I guess we would love to do a clinical trial. I really appreciate that advice. I guess we were sort of intimidated at the financial cost.

[Guy Raz]

How much would that cost? Current? How much do you think you could do a clinical trial? Could you do it for under $10,000?

[Curran Dandurand]

Yeah, I think you could. I mean, you're not going to have as many people in it, but you could have enough to talk about and to show before and afters and get some measurements and you could get different quotes. I mean, it all comes down to how many respondents you have in the study.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, that is good advice. All right. The brand is called Cold Current Kelp. Inga Potter, thank you so much for calling in. Good luck. It's awesome.

[Inga Potter]

Thank you guys so much.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Inga, good luck.

[Inga Potter]

Jeff Kern and Guy, it was so.

[Curran Dandurand]

Great to be here.

[Inga Potter]

Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

All right, thank you.

[Inga Potter]

Bye bye.

[Jeff Dandurand]

All right, bye bye.

[Guy Raz]

I mean, it makes sense to me that seek help. Right. You know, there would be some. A lot of benefits to it.

[Curran Dandurand]

It's a great story all around.

[Guy Raz]

Did you guys ever experiment with like sea vegetables or anything like that in any of your products?

[Curran Dandurand]

Oh, gosh, I think we had seaweed, but sea kelp was not on the radar. But it has a lot of great attributes. It's environmentally friendly. I just, I love their story.

[Guy Raz]

I mean, she's a PhD in biology. I mean, there's a legit science behind this. So I think they, the more they lean into that, the better as well.

[Curran Dandurand]

Yeah, no, I like it.

[Guy Raz]

We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz and we're answering your questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab. One of the hardest parts about B2B marketing is reaching the right audience. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, and that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue, all the professionals you need to reach in one place. Stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign, so you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com builtthis that's LinkedIn.com builtthis Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. You've heard of speed dating, but if you're the owner of a growing business, you may wonder, what if there was a feature like speed dating only for hiring? Some way you could meet multiple interested qualified candidates at once. Well, good news there is. It's zip intro from ZipRecruiter. You can post your job today and start talking to qualified candidates tomorrow. And right now you can try Zip Intro for free at ziprecruiter.com Bilt Zip Intro helps you quickly assess great candidates for your job via back to back video calls. Simply choose a time and zip Intro will find and schedule meetings with qualified candidates for you. Enjoy the benefits of speed hiring with new Zip Intro only from ZipRecruiter rated number one hiring site based on G2. Try Zip Intro for free at ZipRecruiter.com built again, that's ZipRecruiter.com bilt zip intro post jobs today, Talk to qualified candidates tomorrow Trust isn't just earned, it's demanded. Whether you're a startup founder navigating your first audit or a seasoned security professional scaling your GRC program. Proving your commitment to security has never been more critical or more complex. That's where VANTA comes in. Businesses use VANTA to establish trust by automating compliance needs across over 35 frameworks like SoC2 and ISO 27001. Centralize security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster, and proactively manage vendor risk. VANTA not only saves you time, it can also save you Money. A new IDC white paper found that Vant customers achieve $535,000 per year in benefits and a platform pays for itself in just three months. Join over 9,000 global companies like Atlassian, Quora and Factory who use VANTA to manage risk and prove security in real time. For a limited time, Our audience gets $1,000 off [e-mail] that's V A N T A dot com BILT for $1,000 off. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking your calls with Jeff and Kiran Danduran. So, Jeff Curren, let's get back to it. Take another call.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Yep.

[Curran Dandurand]

Let's go.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Let's go, caller.

[Guy Raz]

Welcome to the advice line, you, Honor, with Jeff and Kern Danderand, founders of Jack Black. Hello, welcome. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

[Ashley Gold]

Thank you. My name is Ashley Gold. I'm calling from Park City, Utah, and I'm the founder of Aum Attend, an everyday luxury home and tableware brand dedicated to helping people reconnect with themselves, their spaces and the people in their lives. We design our own products and we make them in small batch production all over the world, from the United States to France to the Czech Republic. And our designs are based on function, sensory experience and aesthetics.

[Guy Raz]

Welcome to the show, Ashley. Thanks for calling in. And I'm Atand. What does that mean, by the way? I should know?

[Ashley Gold]

No, that's French for to take care of your soul.

[Guy Raz]

Got. Oh, nice. Okay, so it's home goods or is it like dinnerware? Like plates.

[Ashley Gold]

So it's plates, yeah. We've got ceramics, glassware, crystal, wooden cutting boards, things that are in your home.

[Guy Raz]

And you design everything.

[Ashley Gold]

I have a designer, Dylan Williamson, who works with me, and the two of us work on them together.

[Guy Raz]

And you're based in Park City and do you sell any of this in shops in Park City? Because I'm looking at your website. This is fancy stuff. Park City's a fancy town.

[Ashley Gold]

We do not. And that actually Is actually my question is where to find our customers. We're currently direct to consumer only. We spend a lot of money on our photography and obviously the margins are better direct to consumer. But I do think we need to find the right places, the right retail locations for people to be able to touch and feel our products, to really see the quality because the price point is also high. They're expensive to design and manufacture in small batch production.

[Guy Raz]

Tell me a little bit about how you founded the business. What were you doing before? Were you like did you come from this industry?

[Ashley Gold]

I am a lawyer by training actually. I worked at Juul, which is an e cigarette company.

[Guy Raz]

Oh yes, the infamous Juul. So you were like their in house lawyer or one of the lawyers.

[Ashley Gold]

I wore a lot of different hats while I was there. I ended as the chief administrative officer. I testified before congress. It was a very, very challenging job and maybe not for the reasons you might think. I still very much believe in the product for addicted smokers. The way that society and news and everybody talked about it and I felt like failed to actually have the conversations just led me to this broader sense that we are having trouble disagreeing respectfully. So I moved to Park City during COVID and decided to completely change what I was doing. And it was really driven by being able to sit around the table, have difficult conversations, not necessarily agree, but spend the time together and connect as humans.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. All right, so you left that world behind and you moved to Park City to start this new business. And is this entirely self funded?

[Ashley Gold]

It is.

[Guy Raz]

And since you launched, how have you guys done in sales total?

[Ashley Gold]

It is slow going. We made about $25,000 last year and would obviously love to see that grow substantially.

[Guy Raz]

Got it. Okay. So your question is how can we reach the right people and kind of convince them. I want to bring Jeff and Kirin in before we answer Ashley's questions. Do you have any questions for her?

[Curran Dandurand]

Yeah, I do. First of all, your website is beautiful. I love your concept. I was struck by how broad your product line is and that makes it extremely challeng when you're a startup, just your inventory costs, the cost of maintaining all those skus. So my question is, do you see the 8020 rule coming into play in your product line thus far? Meaning that 20% of your products generate 80% of your sales?

[Ashley Gold]

Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much, Karin. So I had a consultant who actually suggested that we had to have a relatively large number of products to launch. And yet to your point, we are definitely seeing a few products be the Ones that resonate with people. So I mean, I like this idea of potentially narrowing down. For example, we have these beautiful hand blown crystal tumblers that are made in the Czech Republic and we have three colorways right now. And now we're expanding into a couple more colorways. So maybe if we find the products that people are gravitating to, we give people more color options of those products, but simplify the number of products that we offer.

[Curran Dandurand]

I totally agree. And I think you're going to build your community by focusing on your hero products at this stage in your development and making people fall in love with those products and then you introduce them to the rest of your line as you evolve and as you get stronger. And that's how you build your community. First they gotta fall in love with your product. And it's a bit overwhelming when you look at your site because you have so much there. It's all very beautiful, but you kind of don't know where to start. And I think if you're gonna go wholesale, that is way too much for a retailer to bring in. You know, they're gonna focus on the best sellers and your hero product and what is that entry point product to your brand. And that's where you need to really focus right now, I think.

[Ashley Gold]

And do you think that that entry point product needs to be a more affordable product or is it okay if it's a more expensive product?

[Curran Dandurand]

I think it depends on how expensive and how you can justify the price point, how easily you can communicate that it's worth the step up. It's always nice to have something that's a little more accessible to bring them into the brand and, and again, have them fall in love with you and then you can upgrade them as they become a fan. So I would be sensitive to that.

[Ashley Gold]

Okay.

[Guy Raz]

One of the things that I thought of was you're in Park City. You're in an area just filled with affluent people throughout the year, especially as we speak, people getting ready to go to Sundance. And I wonder whether you've tried to or considered working with some of the boutiques in Park City to at least have some of your items in the stores.

[Ashley Gold]

I haven't, but I think it's a great idea.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, I mean, because, you know, you were in the Bay Area for a long time. So I'm sure you're familiar with Heath Heath Ceramics. Absolutely. Heath Ceramics is a product that people are willing to spend a lot of money for. I have a few Heath serving bowls. They're very expensive, but they've Been around for a long time and they've done things like collaborations with Alice Waters, one of the most famous chefs in America, where you go to her restaurant and everything is served on heath plates. Now that business was really revived in the last decade or so by people who bought it. So to me, there's some interesting things that you could try to get people to say, oh, that's Amitande. I mean that's a really high end brand. But you've gotta. Going from the website alone to that perception is challenging unless you have a celebrity who's behind you and, and backing this and also promoting it. I feel like you want to kind of build this out, I would say starting in Park City because it's such a. I mean, it's one of those places that's small but really influential because of the people who go there. Does that make sense?

[Ashley Gold]

It totally makes sense. I think it's a great idea and I like the idea. We've thought about influencers, but that's. So I really want this to be authentic. I want people who really, really love the products and when people use them, they do fall in love with, but the price point is high. So they need to be. There needs to be some reason to try it. And so maybe that is a local restaurant or some of the local retail shops.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the way to go. I mean, because it's a premium product. And by the way, with Jack Black, I mean you guys were also making a premium product. I mean this was not, it wasn't out of, you know, sort of astronomically expensive for most people, but there was a premium price on it and. But that's how you guys also positioned it. Right?

[Curran Dandurand]

Right. But to your point, we made sure we did a lot of sampling and we demonstrated in store so people could feel it and touch it and see the textures and go, yeah, this is worth the premium. And so I like Guy's idea of getting placement in the right retailers so people can see your product, feel it and see the context that it's marketed at in the right stores. To establish your price point, I would.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Even consider pinpointing five or six retailers in Park City, Deer Valley, these super high end ski resort areas, and going to them with I don't know how much inventory you have right now of certain items, but you could even go to them. And I don't like to sell on consignment. We never did it. But I think you could, could at least offer that as a option to open up a retail Account, Just say, hey, I'm specifically targeting your store. I think it's beautiful. I think our products are beautiful. And I'd like to have the opportunity to sell my products here for the next 30 days. I'll come back in 30 days if whatever you've sold, you pay me for. If we don't sell anything, I'll just pick it up and move on. But I need a chance in your store. I love your store. I mean, we used to do that all the time.

[Ashley Gold]

I love that idea. That's a great idea.

[Curran Dandurand]

And you could do events. You could do events at the store and talk about your concept and talk about your products.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. And you also have the access to some really high end hotels and resorts. Montage and Waldorf and St. Regis. There's a bunch of really super fancy hotels out there. I mean, people are paying 2, $3,000 a night to stay in these places and ski. I think there's a world where you try and get into those gift shops. I mean, those kinds of gift shops. In those kinds of places, they want high end local products. Especially high end local products.

[Ashley Gold]

And do you think that I need to go and sell this personally to each of these places? Yes.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Okay, absolutely.

[Curran Dandurand]

And it's easy to do because you're there.

[Ashley Gold]

Yeah, that's true.

[Guy Raz]

Jeff, you led the sales. Right. It's hard. You got to go into it. How would you suggest she go and do that? Like, what should our pitch be?

[Jeff Dandurand]

I mean, I would just. I would target the top five or six retailers. I'd find out who their buyer was or whoever owned the store. I would show up at their store unannounced. I'd ask for that person. I'd tell them, hey, I love your store. And I would say that, hey, I've got this product line and I want to find a home for it. I think you'd be a perfect home for this. And would you give me a shot?

[Ashley Gold]

I can do that.

[Guy Raz]

All right. You got a plan? We've given you a plan, Ashley.

[Ashley Gold]

I love it.

[Guy Raz]

The brand is called Amatand. Thanks so much. Good luck.

[Ashley Gold]

Thank you so much.

[Curran Dandurand]

Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

Thanks for calling in.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Yeah, bye, bye, bye.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, it's. I mean, I'm looking at our website. It's really, really nice stuff. But to convince, Right. To convince people to spend that on this brand, I think they have to know it first a little bit.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Right to Curran's point, there's a lot of items on that website. I mean, it's everything.

[Curran Dandurand]

They've got to have a lot of their capital tied up in inventory to maintain all those skus and the different colors. And just makes it tough when you're just starting out like that to have that kind of carrying costs in your inventory.

[Jeff Dandurand]

They have sculptures, games.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Moving the sculptures. Yeah.

[Jeff Dandurand]

All kinds of things.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. And over time, they can move that inventory. But it may make sense to focus on the serveware, the dinnerware, the drinkware. Right. And then, you know, because you got stationary and food and gifts, but really nice stuff. We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab. South of Midnight is a third person.

[Curran Dandurand]

Action adventure game set in a version.

[Guy Raz]

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[Curran Dandurand]

When a hurricane rips through Prospero, Hazel.

[Inga Potter]

Is pulled into a magical Southern gothic.

[Curran Dandurand]

World where reality and fantasy are intertwined. Learn the ancient powers of a weaver.

[Guy Raz]

And face mythical creatures inspired by real.

[Curran Dandurand]

Folklore as you explore a beautifully handcrafted world featuring a soundtrack inspired by the American South. Unravel the past in south of midnight. Available April 8, 2025 on Xbox Series XS Game Pass ultimate and PC and Steam. Pre install on Game Pass or pre order now.

[Guy Raz]

Terms apply.

[Inga Potter]

See xbox.com subscription terms rated M for mature.

[Guy Raz]

With the Spark Cash plus card from Capital One, you earn unlimited 2% cash.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Back on every purchase.

[Guy Raz]

And you get big purchasing power so your business can spend more and earn more. Steven, Brandon, and Bruno, the business owners of Sandcloud, reinvested their 2% cash back to help build their retail presence. Now that's serious business.

[Jeff Dandurand]

What could the SparkCash plus card from.

[Guy Raz]

Capital One do for your business?

[Brent Frisker]

Capital One?

[Guy Raz]

What's in your wallet? Find out [e-mail] SparkCashPlus terms apply. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and my guests today are Jack Black Skincare co founders Curran and Jeff Danderand. Jeff Curran, let's take another call.

[Curran Dandurand]

Yep. Let's do it.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Yeah. Let's go.

[Guy Raz]

All right, let's bring in our final caller. Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Jeff and Kuran Dan Duran, founders of Jack Black Skincare. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

[Brent Frisker]

Yeah. Hi, everyone. I'm really excited to be here. My name is Brent and I'm calling from the beautiful mountain town of Nelson, British Columbia, Canada, and I'm the founder of goso Cookware. So goso Cookware is a line of premium quality camp cookware, so designed for people who both love to cook and love to camp.

[Guy Raz]

Got it. Okay. And tell us a little bit about what makes this, because cookware for camping exists. So what, what's so special about goso?

[Brent Frisker]

Totally. So cookware for camping definitely exists. You have, you know, heavy duty cast iron pans, which are great, but they're really bulky, heavy.

[Guy Raz]

Heavy. You don't want to. You don't want to backpack with that on?

[Brent Frisker]

No, you don't.

[Guy Raz]

Within there.

[Brent Frisker]

Yeah, yeah. So then the answer to that is. Well, there's also really lightweight backpacking equipment. Equipment, Right. Backpacking cookware, which is great if you like to boil water, but if you want to do anything else, then there's like nothing really in between. And so I created a frying pan that is a carbon steel frying pan. So carbon steel has all of the great benefits of a cast iron frying pan where there's no toxic evenly, totally heats evenly. There's no toxic coatings. My pan is made in America out of 14 gauge American carbon steel. It's great cooking properties that you can season it so it's almost non stick. But then we created a custom made, completely removable handle. So it's a handle that can lock onto the pan or you can take it off. So if you pack up the pan and the handle, they all pack down to a very small footprint.

[Guy Raz]

So it packs as a. As like a. A bowls basically.

[Brent Frisker]

Yeah, exactly. It's two pans, an 8 inch and a 10 inch pan that's stacked together and then the handle nestles in the side. So you have two frying pans in the. The footprint of like a 10 inch.

[Guy Raz]

Circle and you get two pans. Okay. How did you start? I'm assuming you're a camper. So tell me the idea behind this. When did this business start?

[Brent Frisker]

I love to camp. I love to cook. I've been doing it for a long time with my family. And to this day, that's what me and my friends love to do, is we get outside and eat good food together, essentially. I actually started a YouTube channel a couple years ago, a Covid project around teaching people who ride motorcycles then go camping off their motorcycles how to cook better. The idea was that, you know, there are passing past a grocery store at some like at some point in the day usually. So like, why not cook something a little bit better than rehydrated food, right. You're out there you're having this beautiful experience. Eat a good meal, you know, like, it's fully worth it. So that was my motivation. But then my frustration came in that I didn't have.

[Jeff Dandurand]

I.

[Brent Frisker]

The. I bought, like, the best camp frying pan I could find, but it was aluminum. It was coated in Teflon. The handle wasn't that great. It got banged up, scratched, and when I tried to cook something at a higher temperature, the whole thing warped and burned. And I was like, man, this, this, this. It really wasn't meeting what I. What I, what I needed and wanted. So, yeah, I started on the journey earnestly in around 20, early 2023. Did lots of market research through that time. And then last year, early 24, we started. I started working towards producing a Kickstarter campaign, and last summer, launched my business through Kickstarter.

[Guy Raz]

I was going to ask, how did you finance this thing? So you did a Kickstarter? How much did you raise?

[Brent Frisker]

Yeah, it's. It's fun, man. We. We raised a total of 166,000 Canadian dollars. Yeah. And our. Our project was funded within the first hour of opening. And, yeah, we're just on the verge of shipping that. So a year later, I've gone from, like, a prototype idea to we're shipping our product.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. All right, so you got the Kickstarter done, you got the money in, now you're shipping the product out, obviously to all those Kickstarter supporters. But now the hard part begins because you've got to. Now we reach a much bigger audience and try to get more before we dive in a bit more. What's your question for us?

[Brent Frisker]

Yeah, so my question is around building a culture around. Around a product. So go SO stands for get outside, stay outside. And ultimately that's what I want people to do. It's kind of our motto. We want people to get into the outdoors and connect with each other. And I want to create a culture around our product where people aren't just using the cookware to sustain themselves in the outdoors, but rather they're using it to create meals that are a catalyst for connection. Right. So the question I have is how do I best create a culture around cooking in the outdoors while connecting it to my product, the everywhere pan?

[Guy Raz]

Jeff Curran. A lot to consider here. I'm just looking to create community, which makes sense because there's a certain community of passionate people who camp and want to cook. So. Yeah. What do you think?

[Curran Dandurand]

Well, I would start with your website. I think you can create a lot of compelling content on your site. You could have a lot of tips about your favorite trails and your hikes you've done. Right now it's pretty bare bones. Yeah, I think you really need to fill that out. Just showing what the Michelin Stargazer is all about. A lot of you could do user generated content.

[Brent Frisker]

I want to thank you. I appreciate you recognizing the Michelin Stargazer and that's kind of like the name we have for our community of people. You know, someone who loves to cook and loves to camp. That's a Michelin Stargazer.

[Curran Dandurand]

There's a lot of potential there and that's how you can build your community and show what this is all about and bring it to life. I see on your site that you can sign up to get the newsletter, but I would tease it a little bit on your site with some of that content and show what it's all about so you can sample it a little bit and show them what they're going to get. Are you thinking to also sell to retailers or are you going to be.

[Brent Frisker]

Dtc like to be a combo of both. Our, our plan is this first year to be direct to consumer and in the future you'd like to open up wholesale accounts. So ideally starting next year and focusing on small independent outdoor retailers. So yeah, small shops, this is a higher quality, higher like premium level product. So it's really focused towards not the, you know, the weekend camper, but people that are really passionate about spending time outdoors and passionate about cooking.

[Curran Dandurand]

Well and I think your target market is very defined and very easy to market to, you know, outdoor enthusiasts, campers, you know, long through hikers. So it's going to be easy to find them on social media and target them. And I like the idea of going for the smaller retailer and in every community you've got that mom and pop hiking shop that would be perfect for you. Dealing with the big box guys will be tough in the early days, but I think the smaller retailer will really support you and educate their customer about your product.

[Brent Frisker]

Right, I appreciate that.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. I also think that, I mean it's early days for you. You've just really launched it and as we speak it's not really hiking weather in British Columbia, it's snowy. But this is the kind of product, I mean you're in the right place to do this. Right. Because you are in an outdoors hiking part of of North America. And recently I saw this documentary, it's just an aside because it's not really directly connected but it's documentary about that guy Brian Johnson. Very Strange guy, right? He's trying to live forever. He's trying to become younger. You've probably seen these videos of him. And he injects himself with all kinds of gene therapy and takes 150 vitamins and pills a day and blood transfusions. What he did was he was basically very lonely. And he's also building a business and he just started tweeting out, hey, I'm going for a run in this part of Los Angeles, leaving 9am and the first time he did it like five people met him. Second time he did it like 10 people showed up. Now he's been doing it for a couple years. He's getting 400 people to these things. There's a world where I can imagine you doing a version of that where you're like, hey, I'm going to this trailhead and I'm gonna be grilling up sausages in the morning and pancakes. Come on down for free sausages and pancakes until samples run out and have boxes of go so cookware available. You might get five people, you might get two people the first time. But there are probably enough popular hiking trails that after a certain period of time you're going to start to build momentum among a certain type of person who talks about these kinds of things.

[Brent Frisker]

My plan this winter was to go to some ski parking lots and get to the trailheads of some ski touring areas, you know, make a sweet breakfast wrap and that sort of thing. And I think it'd be great for the content wise, but also creating that like really organic sense of community as well.

[Jeff Dandurand]

You know, once I would imagine once I have one of these carbon steel pans, I really don't need another one in six months. So what other products can you offer?

[Brent Frisker]

No, that's the downfall of my business model is that they really, they're really durable and they really last a long time. But the idea is to build up more quality cookware products. So right now we have two offerings. An 8 inch pan and a 10 inch panel. And then we'd like to build out into a 12 inch pan, a specific griddle pan that works along with it. Lids and then also some accessories to go along with it. Scrubbers. We have two other scratch pad and some seasoning paste that go along with it. But yeah, so really I want to try and like not spread out too much and cover, you know, anything to do with cooking and camping. In the future I'd love to just like kind of expand so that you can have a full kitchen that packs down into a very compact Compact set and then all higher quality stuff.

[Guy Raz]

And Brent, do you have any cash left from the fundraise, from the Kickstarter fundraise to play around with?

[Brent Frisker]

There's a little bit, but not a ton. But yeah, a lot of it went into product development.

[Guy Raz]

I'm sure it did, yeah. I mean it might be worthwhile again, user generated content, seeing how people are using it. Recipes on the website I think would help. And that doesn't cost a lot, but you could try things like making T shirts, let's say Michelin Stargazer. Right. Because it's kind of a cool idea, Michelin, obviously, the food Stargazer. And with your logo on it and sort of hand those out, especially if you're gonna go to a trade show, but also to kind of connect and find people in your area. Because I think you're in an area like. How far are you from Vancouver, by the way?

[Brent Frisker]

I'm about eight hours east of Vancouver.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, so you are deep in British Columbia.

[Brent Frisker]

Yeah, it's a small little town, but we're loaded. Like we're a mecca of, of outdoor enthusiasts. Like there's amazing skiing, amazing biking. Like it's.

[Guy Raz]

So that's your community. I mean that's really where you have to start. I mean that's, that's the, those are the force multipliers because those, the people who, who know you, they know that you're local, they want to support you and incentivize them to do that. I mean, I mean if they, if they post, if they, maybe they get a shirt, something like that, you might.

[Curran Dandurand]

You might think about hiring somebody to help you with social media.

[Brent Frisker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I appreciate any, like, any tips or any thoughts you think in regards to social media that you would, you'd have.

[Guy Raz]

Just flood the zone as well. You gotta wait, you got a YouTube channel, you know what you're doing, just keep it, keep at it. And I think recipes are really, really important when you're offering somebody information or content that is useful to them rather than just trying to sell the product, that's what sticks. You know, if you're like, oh, this guy is making a corned beef hash. Oh, what's his pan? You know, so, but you're focused on the corned beef hash. So I would, I would really lean into trying to do as much of that as you can. The brand is called Go so Cookware. Brent Frisker, thanks so much for calling.

[Brent Frisker]

Yeah, thank you so much, Brent.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Good luck, Brent.

[Brent Frisker]

Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

Great having you. I don't know about you guys. But when I go on, like, long hikes and long trails, I look for a nice inn or hotel where I can sleep at night rather than pitch a tent and a really good restaurant.

[Curran Dandurand]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jeff Dandurand]

I'm not staying in a tent.

[Guy Raz]

No. I'm. A glass of wine and a really nice ribeye steak.

[Jeff Dandurand]

There you go.

[Guy Raz]

Before I let you guys go, and thanks so much for coming on, tell me if you were. Now, if you were going back 25 years, you know, to the beginning, because I know. I remember it was a struggle, you know, the story you guys told and how stressful it was. But of course, you. You managed to make it happen in a big way. If you were able to go back 25 years ago and give you guys advice or some words of encouragement back then, what do you think you might have said? Kurtan?

[Curran Dandurand]

Ooh. Well, I. One thing. It's kind of tactical, but I would be more diligent in who I hired and do background checks. Because when you're in your early days and people don't really want to work for you because you're a startup, it's too risky. You don't have a lot of money. You're not getting the top talent. You kind of just. You're desperate, and you take whoever you can find. And I learned the hard way you need to do background checks on people. And even. Even if it takes a while, because when you do hire the wrong people, it can cost you a lot money and heartache and stress. The other thing I might change would be being more careful and doing more due diligence on retailers, distributors. Like, we got burned from distributors that basically just diverted our product and were total frauds and just making sure the retailer's the right fit for your brand and that they're going to support your brand. So we made some mistakes in that area. And so just being more careful with that.

[Jeff Dandurand]

That's sounding like my mistake for some reason.

[Curran Dandurand]

No. Well, we're all. We were all in it together. You have to just say, I can figure this out. I've done it before. One foot in front of the other. So it's hard when you're in it, but you just have to have confidence in yourself that you'll figure it out. It's not the end of the world. There will be a solution.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Yeah. You gotta kind of. Kind of be your own coach. But you guys had each other, which also helped. Jeff, what do you think? I mean, similar. Similarly.

[Jeff Dandurand]

Yeah. There's a couple things. In the early days when we didn't have money. You know, I'd walk into our warehouse and I would just see, you know, tons of inventory, product everywhere. And I knew that's where our cash was tied up. Maybe being a little more careful about controlling new product development and, you know, our inventory in general. The second thing, as a salesperson, I really regret this more than anything is I didn't know the product formulations as well as I should have. I knew I was, you know, you get great results and the products worked well. But as a salesperson, I was focused on opening up new accounts, not the benefits of the products themselves. And there are significant benefits to the formulations that Karen and Emily developed. And I just didn't, I didn't dive into that science like I wish I would have today. I think I would have spent more time there.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, that's good advice. Jeff and Kern Danderand, thank you so much for coming back onto the show. So great having you.

[Curran Dandurand]

Thank you.

[Inga Potter]

Good to see you.

[Curran Dandurand]

It's a honor to be on.

[Guy Raz]

That's Jack Black Skincare co founders Jeff and Karin Dandaran. And by the way, if you haven't heard their original How I Built this episode, you got to go and check it out. A lot of great lessons in that episode. You can find a link to it in the podcast description. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.

[Curran Dandurand]

We had this seven foot tall, very beautiful wood floor standing fixture, the laser cut logo. We spent a ton of money on it and our idea was this is the display you're going to use in your golf shop.

[Guy Raz]

Okay.

[Curran Dandurand]

But people would look at that display and just like going, what are you thinking? We don't need, we can't put that in our shop. We would never sell that much product. They just weren't interested. And Jeff's like, this isn't working. We gotta pull the plug and we gotta go get real jobs.

[Guy Raz]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for [e-mail] or on substack. And of course, if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues you are currently facing because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice [e-mail] or call us at 1-800-433-1298. You can leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And by the way, we'll put all of this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Iman Ma'ani with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Sina Lofred. Our production team also includes Alex Chung, Casey Herman, Elaine Coates, Chris Masini, Kathryn Seifer, Kerry Thompson, Sam Paulson, J.C. howard, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the advice line on How I Built this Lab. If you like How I built this, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey in the early hours of December 4, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.

[Jeff Dandurand]

This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him.

[Guy Raz]

We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world and the suspect he has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was targeted, premeditated, admit to so terror. I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi Produced by Law and Crime and Twist. This is more than a true crime investigation. We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever.

[Curran Dandurand]

He's awoken the people to a true issue.

[Inga Potter]

Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature.

[Curran Dandurand]

Of our healthcare system.

[Brent Frisker]

Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus.

[Guy Raz]

You can join Wondery plus in the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.