Advice Line with Jeni Britton of Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams

Summary

How I Built This with Guy Raz

Episode: Advice Line with Jeni Britton of Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams
Release Date: March 27, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of How I Built This with Guy Raz, host Guy Raz welcomes back Jenny Britton, the visionary founder of Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams. Originally featured in a live episode from Columbus, Ohio in 2018, Jenny returns to share her journey, insights, and to offer advice to fellow entrepreneurs facing various business challenges.

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Jenny Britton's Entrepreneurial Journey

Starting from the Ground Up
Jenny Britton recounts her bold decision to pivot from an art career to the world of ice cream making. In [05:32], she shares:

"I just knew that I couldn't do art anymore. I wanted to be making ice cream and serving it, and I wanted to light people up in that way."

Launching her first location in a Columbus food hall, Jenny emphasized the importance of starting small and building a strong foundation. Contrary to the common belief that iconic brands originate from coastal hubs like New York or Los Angeles, Jenny leveraged Columbus's supportive community and lower business costs to establish her brand.

Choosing the Right Locale
At [06:43], Jenny explains why Columbus was ideal for her venture:

"Smaller markets are perfect because the city gets behind it in a different way. You can really try things and also fail a lot, and people still stick with you."

This strategic choice allowed Jenny to focus resources on product quality and brand development without the exorbitant expenses associated with larger cities.

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Introducing Flora: A New Venture

Expanding her entrepreneurial spirit, Jenny introduced Flora at [07:51], a company dedicated to producing high-fiber energy bars. Drawing from produce trimmings like apple cores and watermelon rinds, Flora addresses the widespread fiber deficiency in the American diet while promoting sustainability by reducing food waste.

"Flora exists to get people fiber every day."

This venture showcases Jenny's commitment to innovation and health, paralleling her dedication to quality in her ice cream business.

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Advice Line: Helping Fellow Entrepreneurs

Throughout the episode, Jenny and Guy Raz engage with callers seeking guidance on various business challenges. Two notable callers share their entrepreneurial stories:

1. Jesse Koenig of Jesse and Ben's
   Jesse discusses his company's unique approach to producing high-quality, non-GMO frozen french fries cooked in healthy fats like grass-fed beef tallow and avocado oil. Facing a nationwide launch with limited marketing budgets, Jesse seeks advice on effective resource allocation for marketing.

   Key Insights:

   • Product Quality Over Trends
     Jenny emphasizes that while targeting health-conscious consumers is beneficial, the primary appeal lies in the product's superior taste and quality.

     "Most of the people that you want to appeal to aren't really going to care about [seed oils] as much yet. They just like your product because it's delicious." [16:50]

   • Effective Sampling Strategies
     Jenny suggests innovative sampling methods to engage consumers directly, such as partnering with complementary brands or creating interactive in-store experiences.

2. Casey White of Jaju Pierogi
   Casey seeks advice on sustainable growth in the Consumer Packaged Goods (CPG) industry without relinquishing significant equity through external funding.

   Key Insights:

   • Leverage Existing Networks
     Jenny recommends tapping into personal networks for initial funding and support, emphasizing the importance of trusted advisors and a dedicated board.

     "Have you looked into SBA and like, the sort of SBA and bank loans? They can be an incredible resource." [27:01]

   • Building a Strong Team and Advisory Board
     Establishing a board of advisors can provide invaluable guidance and prepare the company for future growth and investment opportunities.

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Navigating Marketing and PR Challenges

For Jesse Koenig:
Jenny advises focusing on the inherent quality and uniqueness of the product to attract customers organically. She highlights the importance of authentic storytelling and leveraging social media influencers who genuinely appreciate the product.

For Ali Zaher of UBE Co:
Ali, founder of a pet treat company, seeks help in finding a reputable PR firm to expand her brand's reach. Jenny underscores the need for authenticity in communication and suggests prioritizing partnerships with PR professionals who genuinely believe in the product.

"People invest in you, even consumers and customers. They want to know that this came from somebody who really cares." [47:57]

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Key Takeaways and Insights

• Start Small and Scale Strategically:
  Jenny's success in Columbus underscores the benefits of launching in supportive, smaller markets where businesses can thrive without the intense competition and high costs of major cities.

• Maintain Brand Integrity:
  Whether launching ice cream or fiber bars, Jenny emphasizes the importance of product quality and authenticity in building a loyal customer base.

• Leverage Networks and Advisors:
  Building a reliable support system through advisors, boards, and personal networks is crucial for sustainable growth without losing control over the company's vision.

• Innovative Marketing Approaches:
  Embracing creative sampling methods and authentic storytelling can set a brand apart in crowded marketplaces, fostering genuine connections with consumers.

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Conclusion

Jenny Britton's journey from an art student to a renowned ice cream entrepreneur and beyond offers invaluable lessons in resilience, innovation, and strategic growth. Through her insights on building quality products, smart scaling, and effective marketing, Jenny provides a masterclass for aspiring entrepreneurs navigating the challenges of the business world.

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Notable Quotes

• Jenny Britton on Dropping Out to Pursue Ice Cream:

  "I just knew that I couldn't do art anymore. I wanted to be making ice cream and serving it, and I wanted to light people up in that way." [05:46]

• Jenny Britton on Choosing Columbus:

  "Smaller markets are perfect because the city gets behind it in a different way. You can really try things and also fail a lot, and people still stick with you." [06:43]

• Jenny Britton on Flora's Mission:

  "Flora exists to get people fiber every day." [08:26]

• Jenny Britton on the Importance of a Dedicated PR Partner:

  "You have to have somebody who adores you, who believes in you, who wants to push it forward." [44:58]

• Jenny Britton Reflecting on Past Advice:

  "I needed a coach. I needed to understand how founders carry power in companies." [48:55]

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For more inspiring stories and entrepreneurial insights, tune in to How I Built This with Guy Raz on the Wondery App or your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

[Guy Raz]

Wondery subscribers can listen to How I Built this early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. This episode is sponsored by Canva. If you make decks at work, you should make the switch to Canva Presentations. Canva Presentations might be the most visually impressive presentations you'll ever use. Start with a stunning template, drag and drop images, graphics, charts and data visualizations from Canva's massive media library. Add animations plus interactive polls and quizzes to really set your slides apart. Built in AI also lets you generate slides and text in seconds from a prompt and you can share your Canva presentations with anyone and instantly collaborate in real time. Canva is used by 95% of Fortune 500 companies. Whether you work at a small or big company in a team of two or two thousand, Canva empowers workplaces everywhere to create captivating presentations, save time and be more productive together. You'll love the presentations you can easily design with Canva. Your audience will too. Love your work with canva [e-mail] are you inspired by stories on how I built this? Take the next step in your entrepreneurial journey by enrolling in a graduate program at Babson College, the alma mater of Jamie Siminoff, founder of Ring David Heath, co founder of Bombas, and Mike Salguero, founder of Butcherbox, whose unique stories we've told right here on How I Built them. Babson equips you with the skills, network and hands on experience to turn your problem solving ideas into reality. Join a global network of entrepreneurial leaders at the school ranked number one in entrepreneurship for 31 years by US News and World Report and number two best college in the United States by the Wall Street Journal. Learn more about Babson's full time and part time graduate programs at Babson. Edu Gradschool.

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[Guy Raz]

Hello and welcome to the advice line on How I Built this Lab. Hi, I'm Guy Raz, this is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a 1 minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice [e-mail] and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for [e-mail] and we'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Jenny Britton. She's the founder of Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams. Jenny, it's great to have you back on the show.

[Jenny Britton]

Hey, Guy, it's so, so great to be back.

[Guy Raz]

You were a guest on the show back in 2018. We did a live show in Columbus, Ohio. It was so fun. And by the way, guys, if you haven't heard that original episode, we will put a link in the episode description. You, of course, started Jenny's. Your first location was in a food hall and then you opened your first scoop shop a few years later. And I think most people know your ice cream, I mean, creamy, amazing, weirdly wonderful flavors like powdered jelly donut and brambleberry crisp and Texas sheet cake. And my current favorite, I have to say, brown butter brittle.

[Jenny Britton]

That's my favorite.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, we have a pint and a half. My son eats a pint of your ice cream, like, almost daily. It's very, it's just really amazing when they're growing how much ice cream they eat.

[Jenny Britton]

Yeah, well, I know that very well, too. My kids eat a lot of ice cream as well. We are an ice cream family, of course. But yes, that one's my favorite, too. And the one that I always, always, always have in my freezer.

[Guy Raz]

It's so good. Today your ice creams are sold, I think, in about 80, at least 80 scoop shops across the country.

[Jenny Britton]

That's great.

[Guy Raz]

12,000 retail locations. You built an incredible business, Jenny. Before we get to today's callers, I want to ask you a couple questions about your story. I mean, when you were in college Right. You had this moment when you knew you wanted to make ice cream basically for the rest of your life. And you dropped out of the Ohio State University to start what would become JD's first called Scream. I scream?

[Jenny Britton]

Yeah. In 1996, I walked out of art class, literally.

[Guy Raz]

I mean, yeah, you walked out. And so a lot of, you know, a lot of callers have asked this in the past, which is when, like, how do you know that it was the right thing to do at that time?

[Jenny Britton]

Well, first of all, I didn't question it. It wasn't something that I sat and thought, is this really right? Is it not right? I just knew that I couldn't do art anymore. And I had spent my entire life in art. My grandmother's an art teacher, my mother's an artist. And it just wasn't for me anymore. I just wanted to be making ice cream and I wanted to be serving ice cream and I wanted to light people up in that way. And I didn't know at all what I was doing and I just thought it would just gonna be, you know, you make ice cream, you serve it, people love it, and then, you know, you become Ben and Jerry's overnight.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, right.

[Jenny Britton]

And obviously that's not true. You know, that was just the beginning.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. I think a lot of people assume that brands start in, you know, coastal cities, LA, NY, San Francis, but you started this in Columbus and built a national brand, really, on the sheer force of the quality of the product and the branding and the look of it. Tell me, why do you think Columbus turned out to be the perfect place for you to launch the business?

[Jenny Britton]

Columbus is a perfect place and these smaller markets are really perfect for a lot of reasons. Actually, I was in Columbus and one of the reasons that I wanted to be an ice cream maker is because I drove by farms every day. You go 20 minutes outside of downtown and you're driving by day. So I knew that we were a dairy state because I saw it in front of me. So I thought, okay, great, it's awesome for ice cream. And we forget that a lot of innovation can come from the middle of the country, whether it's in food, especially in food where we have ag states, but also when you're in a smaller, small to mid sized city, the city gets behind it in a different way. You can really try things and also fail a lot and people still stick with you. And I have noticed that in big cities everybody's trying new things, everybody's got something going on and it's really hard to Stand out.

[Guy Raz]

And of course, the cost of doing business is lower. Just the startup costs are lower. In a place like Columbus versus Brooklyn.

[Jenny Britton]

New York, it would be impossible to do what we do at Jenny's. All of our money would have been in, you know, rent and paying people and all the things that you have to do in Brooklyn that would be different from Columbus. Yeah. And here we can put it all in the ice cream. And that's just a huge difference.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Jenny, before we get to our callers, you have a new product that you've launched. A complete. I think it's a completely separate company. It is called Flora, and these are energy bars or bars, but they're like high in fiber, like 13, 14 grams of fiber per bar. Tell me about this new business that you've launched.

[Jenny Britton]

Yeah, Flora is a fiber company. We actually make fiber or pull fiber from produce trimmings. So we are located actually inside of a 600,000 square foot produce processing company that makes cut produce for all your.

[Guy Raz]

Favorite grocers, like baby carrots or, you know, stuff like that.

[Jenny Britton]

Mott's apples, for instance. And so we can take the apple cores and then make them into a paste, which becomes the base of our bars. And so we also work with watermelon rinds. We actually ferment the watermelon rinds a little bit, which opens up cellulose and pectin and prebiotic fiber there. We work with honeydew cantaloupe rinds, mango skins. These are really high in fiber. And then 95% of Americans are deficient in fiber, and it's the cause of many chronic illnesses across America. So I don't know. You know, people are like, how do you go from ice cream to fiber? And to me, it's just the same thing. It's about making people feel better. I learned after I was able to kind of step back a little bit from Jenny's over the last five years how important fiber is and how absent it is from our food system. And we really need this to have a healthy microbiome. So. Yeah, so Flora exists to get people fiber every day.

[Guy Raz]

That's so cool. Congrats on that. It's really true. I mean, I. I eat so many vegetables and I still add psyllium husk to my morning smoothie. I eat chia seed pudding every day. We don't eat enough fiber.

[Jenny Britton]

And you have to work to do it. You have to actually try.

[Guy Raz]

It's really hard.

[Jenny Britton]

And also, you know, of course, there's this sustainability aspect because all of these Ingredients were going into the landfill. But they are really good for you and you should be eating them.

[Guy Raz]

Yep, for sure. Well, all right. Congrats on that. I can't wait to try them.

[Jenny Britton]

Thank you. Back at the beginning.

[Guy Raz]

Back at the beginning. I love it. Let's bring in our first caller. Hello, welcome to the advice line. You're on with me and Jenny Britton. Welcome. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business.

[Jesse Koenig]

Hey, guy. Hey, Jenny. My name is Jesse Koenig. I'm calling in from Washington D.C. i am one of the co founders of Jesse and Ben's and what makes our fries special is that we don't use seed oils or any weird ingredients. It's just non GMO potatoes, healthy fats like grass fed beef, tallow or avocado oil and salts and seasonings. That's it. Just real ingredients you can pronounce and none of the bad stuff.

[Jenny Britton]

Incredible.

[Guy Raz]

I love it. Welcome to the show, Jesse. Thanks for calling in. So these are sold frozen in a bag like that you would get at the grocery store in the freeze dry aisle.

[Jesse Koenig]

Exactly. Yep. They are frozen french fries you'd find right in the freezer aisle next to some of the big red bags you probably recognize from a long time. They've been there.

[Guy Raz]

And then you take them home and you just put them on a baking sheet and you bake them.

[Jesse Koenig]

Yeah, exactly. Right in the air fryer. Air fryer is great. People love their air fryers. I like to make them in the oven too. They're great in the oven as well. It's kind of like a twice fried Belgian style fry you get at a restaurant and we do the first fry and you're basically doing that finished cooking at home either in the air fryer or in the oven.

[Guy Raz]

I got it. Cool. Well, tell me a little bit about how you started the business.

[Jesse Koenig]

Our background is actually in restaurants and.

[Guy Raz]

You say our you've got a partner. That would be Ben.

[Jesse Koenig]

That would be Ben. Exactly.

[Guy Raz]

I guess the Ben and Jesse and Ben's.

[Jesse Koenig]

Yes. We're the guys behind the fries. I'm one half of the equation being Jesse, Ben and I, we met in college. We were friends. We decided this brilliant idea that we were going to get into the food industry with no experience. Jumped right into it in D.C. in 2014 with food trucks and farmer's markets and kind of running around the city.

[Guy Raz]

What were you selling? What kind of food?

[Jesse Koenig]

It actually started out with gourmet, grass fed beef, spiral cut hot dogs of all things, it was a very niche, funky thing. Hand cut fries were a huge part of the menu from day one. And we eventually pivoted the concept a little bit more into the burger space and building a better fast food concept. We've had our best year ever in 2019. We signed our first lease getting ready to open up in 2020, and it was not the best time, as you might imagine, to be opening your first restaurant. Yes, yes. So we were building our restaurant in March, getting ready to open in May, and that actually led us to kind of idea for french fries because we were trying to solve a problem at our restaurant. We were hand cutting fries for our food trucks and farmers markets, and now this new restaurant. And we thought, we need to survive. We don't know what we're going to do. What if we could use a frozen french fry? But since it'd always been a core part of our business from the earliest days, we couldn't sacrifice the quality of our fries. And we decided to make our own frozen french fries because the only one we could find that really worked. And then we had these frozen fries, and we walked the grocery store aisles, and we just saw that sea of sameness we'd learned about from being longtime listeners of How I Built this and realized there was a huge opportunity to just do something better. And we realized there was a real problem that needed solving.

[Guy Raz]

Amazing. All right, just to clarify, though, the these are sold in stores, not direct to consumer, because it's kind of hard, I'm assuming, to ship these. Right?

[Jesse Koenig]

Yeah. We've had people all over the country trying to get us to ship french fries, which we've decided not to do for the time being.

[Guy Raz]

Dry ice. It's hard. So. So where are they sold? How many shops, grocery stores are you in right now?

[Jesse Koenig]

So we just launched into retail in June of last year. So June 2024, and, you know, by kind of end of the year, early 2025, we're in about 400 grocery stores, and we're actually launching nationally with Sprouts Farmers market soon. So we've got a lot going on this year, and we're just trying to figure out one step at a time of what to do next.

[Guy Raz]

All right, what's your question for us today?

[Jesse Koenig]

Yes, my question's related to just how we should focus our marketing efforts. I know we're a, you know, small business. We don't have the budgets of the big guys, and we're getting ready for this nationwide launch in Sprouts, and we're trying to Think about, you know, as we get into these new places, how should we be allocating our resources and our time and our budget? On one hand, it seems like there's a good case to be made to go and find the people that are already removing ultra processed foods and seed oils from their diet because they kind of get it. They can be those early brand evangelists. On the other hand, it kind of seems like it could make sense to go find people who are buying lots of fries and don't even know about this problem. And if we can educate them and get them to know, hey, these fries not only taste better, but they might be better for you and your family too. So we're just trying to figure out how we should really focus our effort when it comes to marketing as we're rolling into new places.

[Guy Raz]

All right, we'll get to your question in a moment. I want to bring Jenny in. Jenny, you may have some answers to this question, but you may have questions of your own before we get to it.

[Jenny Britton]

Hi, Jesse.

[Jesse Koenig]

Hello.

[Jenny Britton]

Congratulations on your business.

[Jesse Koenig]

Thank you.

[Jenny Britton]

I mean, how cool. It's amazing. I feel like there's like a problem with like french fries right now. You guys identified it inside your company where it's like you can't actually buy like decent french fries. But making them is actually really hard too. And if you're feeling it, I think the consumer is feeling it as well. I would love to know where are you manufacturing? How are you manufacturing these?

[Jesse Koenig]

So we make all of our own french fries ourselves. We actually just opened a brand new 6,000 square foot facility in Rockville, Maryland because we are doing grass fed beef tallow and avocado oil. And we think we have a very true to form process for these hand cut, you know, Belgian style fries. We don't really think there is an option elsewhere to do co manufacturing. We kind of like controlling that part of the process so we do it all. That's actually kind of what Ben's specialty is.

[Jenny Britton]

And what are your, I mean, your established businesses? Are people just sort of super excited about the fries? You know, I mean, is that something that. I mean it sounds like it. But in addition to your burgers and the dogs and everything?

[Jesse Koenig]

Yeah. At the restaurant level, I think for us we were able to execute on making a fry that tastes as good as any french fry you ever had. But the sort of magic behind the scenes for us as operators is that we just open up a bag of our Jesse and Ben's fries, drop them into the fryer and we've got A great French fry right there. And we actually do sell fries to other restaurants. It's kind of a sneaky wholesale business that we have that helps us grow our business and run our manufacturing plant profitably. Hopefully that's the idea at least. Easier said than done.

[Jenny Britton]

Totally.

[Guy Raz]

It's really interesting. Jesse, can you give me a sense of what your, what your sales are right now with the fries? Are you guys, have you broken through $200,000 in sales?

[Jesse Koenig]

Yeah. So in our first 12 months in business, we've done into seven figures in sales.

[Guy Raz]

Great.

[Jesse Koenig]

So it's been growing pretty quick.

[Jenny Britton]

Incredible.

[Guy Raz]

Let me, let me try to take a crack at your question because I think there's a parallel with what Jenny's done. And you mentioned this is idea of like a higher quality version of something that you were used to. Right. There's a lot of awareness on social media about, about seed oils and people are getting sort of weirded out about using them. And there's still some disputes about whether that's, you know, accurate or not. But I think that most of the people that you want to appeal to aren't really going to care about that as much yet. I still think it's new. I think most of the people are just going to like your product because it's delicious, it's a higher quality product and you can taste it. Do you think there's something to that, Jenny, or do you disagree?

[Jenny Britton]

I really do. If you go super deep on the seed oil thing, that science has not reached consensus yet. So it can be fad, like right now. And so you don't want to just be known for that. People who follow that will find you. They'll see tallow, they'll see avocado oil and they'll find you. But I will say there is another component or an element to think about which is you're not just moving people from one fry company to another. In Jenny's it was the same way. Because your customer when you're in grocery is not their customer, it's the buyer. And what the buyer wants to see is, yeah, sure, you can split some boats. That's okay. Are you bringing new people to the category? And so the new people that you're bringing, sure, it's some of the seed oil people, it's some of the health conscious people. It's also just people who love fries who just don't think you can get good fries in the grocery store and you can't make them at home and you have a story that can back that up and that's gonna bring new people into the category. And I think the buyers are gonna really wanna have you on the shelf.

[Guy Raz]

What are you guys doing for sampling? I mean, do you have air fryers set up in some of these grocery stores and just handing out hot french fry while you're shopping for groceries? I mean, my God, we've done it.

[Jesse Koenig]

A couple of times. We actually just were jokingly serious but joking about this idea of like, what if we just got a giant food truck and drove it down the east coast and had a french fry tour bus and just did cool activations. But I think tasting definitely is believing. We've had a lot of success just finding these really influential people online and on social media, seeding out the product, having them give honest reviews and giving their experience. And that's been really effective. But I think you're right. We. When you put an air fryer out and you give somebody a couple french fries in the grocery store, it's very hard to keep them on the shelf. We're selling out stores that way, definitely.

[Jenny Britton]

Yeah. And you go right to your customer in the grocery store. I mean, it's a really great way. Sir Kensington's actually did a really cool thing. You should partner with them. They sent a truck out and they did french fries, but it was to sell their condiments. And they had this cute, like, container. And I happened to catch it at my Whole Foods and they had their mayo and their ketchup. And so you would go up and you would get that. And it's like, I've been a huge fan of Sir Kensington since.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, I mean, you're like, as Jenny said, like, when people would ask her to describe the flavor, she would say, we packed more as much chocolate into this pint as we could possibly get. When you have people trained people who are sampling Jessie and Ben's at Sprouts or wherever it is, then they can say, and it's made with avocado oil or beef tallow. And you know, whatever the pitch is, I mean, here you go. It's going to change your mind about oven fries. And it's available in the freezer section just around the corner.

[Jesse Koenig]

I love. That's a pretty good pitch too, guy. We have to hire you to do some samples.

[Jenny Britton]

I love selling other people's products for them. I think it's like, it's so great. And in fact, it's a good thing to do to be. To listen to how other people talk about your products because you'll talk about it one way. But listen to what other people are saying. And then also when you're thinking about your pitch, think to your customers, think about what do I want them to say to other people and talk to them the exact way, because what you say, they often sort of say in your words to somebody else. And that word of mouth is going to be everything.

[Jesse Koenig]

I think that's great advice. I really appreciate the help.

[Guy Raz]

Jesse Koenig. The brand is called Jesse and Benz. Thanks for calling in. Good luck, man.

[Jenny Britton]

Good luck.

[Jesse Koenig]

Thanks so much. We really appreciate you guys.

[Guy Raz]

Great having you. Yeah, I love french fries and Jenny, you know, French fries and a great steak for me is like one of the greatest moments ever.

[Jenny Britton]

Oh, same. I'm really excited about this tallow and sea salt, though. And I agree, like, I know a lot of people are talking about tallow, but, you know, like, we're just going back to, like, some first principles of, like, how do you make great french fries? I know I'm in the Midwest, so I'm hoping that my stores carry them.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, next up after the break, another caller with another business challenge. I'm Guy Raz and we're answering your questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab.

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[Jenny Britton]

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[Guy Raz]

Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and my guest today is Jenny's Splendid ice Cream's founder, Jenny Britton. Jenny, why don't we. Let's take another call.

[Jenny Britton]

Okay.

[Guy Raz]

Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Jenny Britton. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business. Business.

[Casey White]

Hello. Nice to meet you guys. My name is Casey White and I'm calling from Boston, Massachusetts and I'm the co founder of Jaju Pierogi and we specialize in high quality polish dumplings. So producing high quality polish dumplings at scale using our grandfather's recipes to grocery stores throughout the country.

[Guy Raz]

Amazing. Well, thanks for calling in, Casey. And and so Pierogi's dumplings, these are, I think most people know what they are stuffed with potatoes and cheese. And I think you can get it with meat.

[Casey White]

You can put anything you want inside pasta dough. Right. So we make a bunch of different flavors from potato and cheese kielbasa, which is a pork sausage and red bell pepper, a sweet potato, caramelized onion, jalapeno, cheddar, you name it, we can put it inside.

[Guy Raz]

So this sold frozen in bags in the grocery store and like you, you just heat it up in the oven?

[Casey White]

Yep. So we boil them and freeze them so you can air fry them, you can bake them. My favorite is sauteing them with some butter oil for about eight to 10 minutes on the stove. You could even microwave them if you wanted to. So just reheating them.

[Guy Raz]

And tell me how you started the business. Tell me the story behind it.

[Casey White]

Yes. So my sister and I grew up on our grandfather's pierogi. So Jaju is our brand name and that's the phonetic spelling of grandfather in Polish. So we grew up on his pierogi and always had them like in the freezer. Like our Kraft Mac and cheese. Like, that was our snack, our go to thing. All of our friends would ask, hey, where'd you get those? Like, I can't find handmade dumplings anywhere. And we were like, really? Because we always had them. So we just assumed that everybody had them. Yeah. Yeah. So we actually drove back to our grandfather's store and found his handwritten recipes in the back of the store and just started tinkering on our kitchen table and kind of like that small business story. Right. Started going to pop ups farmers markets. We started doing this around the time when breweries were, like, really hot and new. So pierogi and beer is like the perfect combination. So we would hop around and do that and quickly realized that, yeah, people could not find pierogi anywhere. People were like, driving from neighboring states to come to our events. It was crazy, but it was awesome. So we kept going with it once we. We saw that demand.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. That's super cool. All right, so you're. You're not sold direct to consumer, or you are.

[Casey White]

We do sell direct to consumer on our website. Um, we don't do. It's not a large part of our business because as you said before, you know, frozen is pretty expensive.

[Guy Raz]

It's challenging. Yeah.

[Casey White]

Yep. Not easy to do, but we do offer it. And. But most of our business is to grocery. So now we're in about 2,700 stores throughout the country. Whole Foods sprouts a lot of stores in the natural channel. And then we still do. We do have a big event part of our business that we still operate mostly in the summer months, like music festivals and stuff like that.

[Guy Raz]

Right. And give us a sense of your sales right now.

[Casey White]

So last year we finished at 2.5 million.

[Guy Raz]

That's great.

[Casey White]

This year we should do almost four because we're actually getting into Costco, which is exciting.

[Guy Raz]

Oh, wow. All right, so before we dive in with more questions, what's your question for us?

[Casey White]

So my question is, how does a company sustainably grow in the CPG industry without raising a ton of capital? Or is raising a ton of capital just part of the equation?

[Guy Raz]

All right, big question. And Jenny, I know you've got a lot of thoughts on that. Jenny, questions for Kasey.

[Jenny Britton]

Hey, Casey, first of all, congratulations. What an accomplishment. I mean, to have 2,700 plus stores is. I mean, I know from my experience at Jenny's this is a slog that is not easy to do, and I just applaud you.

[Casey White]

Thank you.

[Jenny Britton]

I just. I guess when I Think of bringing capital. I think the first thing I think of is that entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs for a reason. And that's because we like to do things our way and differently, and we like to explore and discover and all of that. And when you bring in outside capital, you lose all of that. And so, you know, are. Who's on your team? How many people do you have? Are you ready to sort of, like, let go of that kind of control?

[Casey White]

Yeah, that's. That's the hard part, right? Because it's like, we're a very small, lean team, so we've been very methodical in our growth. Like, we've been around for nine years. And so a lot of people, right, they say, oh, like, nine years, like, maybe you should be in 10,000 stores or whatever. And we say, like, well, we've just methodically grown because we didn't want to take. Make, you know, outside investment and stuff like that. And so it's kind of just like that point, like, okay, if we want to get into the club stores, the big, you know, the bigger guys, like, we need some upfront money to do packaging, like, just all of the logistics and all of that piece of it. And so that's what I struggle with because it's like, right, I don't want to give away control. I want to be able to still make the big decisions, but also, like, where do I get the money from to do so?

[Jenny Britton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and that's. That's always that sort of catch 22 or whatever, you know, where you're trying to grow and you need the money to grow. Have you looked into, like, SBA and like, the sort of SBA and bank loans? Because I think, you know, the thing is, we don't really ever talk about that. And it can be such an incredible resource. Especially, you know, the first answer is, you're doing it. This is how you do it. This is actually how you raise a company in the best way, because you have control and you're growing and you're doing it. And that's another question, too, for you is like, what would you do with the money? I mean, it's packing. If it's just packaging and getting into a store, you might be able to get a loan for that, right? Have you looked into bank loans and if that something that you would consider versus bringing in a partner?

[Casey White]

Yeah. Open to all options. We have taken some bank loans. The SBA Covid was a great time to get federal money, so that really helped us. So there's definitely that avenue. It's just funny. Like being in the industry, the CPG industry. I don't know if it's because you're just surrounded by people, right. Who are always like, I raised X and I raised this and this round series abcde. Like, it's like, is this what I'm supposed to be doing? Right. But I agree with you. It's like, fine, you can get creative with how you need to front load anything. Right. If it's just packaging, like in this case, most of it is. Right. It's just accomplishing the execution of a new store. Then why give 25% of your business away to someone who is never going to care as much as I do? Yeah.

[Jenny Britton]

And they're going to have a lot of opinions on how you do things.

[Guy Raz]

And I mean, look, and to be frank, it is a. We've talked about this on the advice line before. It happens to be a more challenging environment to raise money, especially in food and CPG businesses. Now, you know what I'm hearing from investors right now in the food space is they're waiting. They're really looking for brands to hit 50, really $100 million in sales. You know, a couple years ago it was 20. If a brand hit $20 million in sales, it was a target for acquisition. You know, that being said, I mean, you have some friends and family who have invested in the business, right?

[Casey White]

Right. Yep, they have.

[Guy Raz]

And so, I mean, is there talk or thought about maybe going back to them? And if that's something that you need, is that an option?

[Casey White]

Yeah, that's also. That's part of my plan of attack. Right. It's like when we did that round, you re I learned a lot about myself and my connections. Right. Like, people want to help you. Whether they're giving you money or not, they want to help you and they give you the advice that kind of leads you to the next person that might, you know, write that check who believes in your company has been seeing us grow it for years. Right. So that's kind of my first plan of attack. It's like, okay, look at my network, the people that I trust and have believed in this product, tap them first. Because I was pleasantly surprised the first time, so I probably will be pleasantly surprised the second time I do this.

[Jenny Britton]

Well, just to get to this other point that you're making, which is like, it does feel like. And I felt like this at Jenny's too. It does feel like even now, like, like your success as an entrepreneur is not whether you're actually selling or creating value for Your customers. It's about whether you've gotten what round of funding you're in. And I'm so fundamentally against that. I mean, I think that it has to be as entrepreneurs, it has to be about our customers really creating value for people. And honestly, I think the best way to do it is this. I talk about this Jenny's all the time. Like, start small and build. Just keep building. Jenny's took on Partners in 2015, but that was. We started in 2002. From 1996, I was learning that whole time, I built my brand so that when we brought in a private equity firm who we're still with and we love and we're very lucky on that front, but when we brought them in, the brand was established enough that I still had power, you know, to put it frankly. Do you have a board of advisors or a board of some people that you lean on?

[Casey White]

We do. We have a few. We haven't fully built out a board, which I think we need to do.

[Jenny Britton]

I have found that very helpful. I thought that was helpful at Jenny's. When we brought in the private equity firm in 2016, actually, we organized a board, and that just made us kind of prepare for, you know, we had to sort of tell everybody what we were doing every month. We had to get prepared for that meeting, and we had to, you know, but it also helped us just organize together as a team. They were so helpful to us. So I have a new company now, Flora, and we've already formed a board, and we went out and found people who are real experts there. And I think there are a lot of people who would want to help you because you're already out proving it.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Jenny Britton]

And then also when you get to that point, if you do a little later want to go for funding, you've already got your board established, so that gives you a little extra leverage.

[Casey White]

Right.

[Guy Raz]

I think that's great advice. Casey White. The brand is called Jaju Pierogi. Good luck.

[Jenny Britton]

Good luck.

[Casey White]

Thank you so much.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. I mean, Jenny, do you know, obviously it's a different time environment to raise outside capital and food. Right. In the food business. But it was important. Right. I mean, it really helped you kind of super scale your business.

[Jenny Britton]

Yeah. And we looked for partners, and in doing this at Flora too, we looked for partners who could be. Who could add more value to the company, who could really help us. I mean, we were just a scrappy team. And when they came in, we sort of formed an executive team of professionals who understood how to do it. And that was A game changer because there are methods that we just, you just have to know, you have to learn.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. What are you hearing, I mean, if anything, about fundraising, especially for food brands right now?

[Jenny Britton]

Well, it's funny you should ask because I'm literally in the middle of it. I've been doing this for the last, you know, I've been building this company for two years, really scrappy. And we've gotten some angel investors for early stage just to get us kind of figure out what we're doing. And now we're kind of going after the bigger funding. But we are finding, yes, of course, it's very tight. Very, very tight. And I think you have to have a massive opportunity where I'm hearing people say that, you know, they're looking for companies who could become a billion dollar company.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Jenny Britton]

If you think about food, that's massive. You know, I mean, that's just, that's just global scale almost. They're throwing around that B word a lot.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Stay with us because after the break we'll talk to another founder working to take their business to the next level. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab.

[Casey White]

Foreign.

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[Guy Raz]

Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking your calls with Jenny Britton, founder of Jenny's Splendid ice Creams. So Jenny, let's get back into it and take another call, okay?

[Casey White]

Sure.

[Jenny Britton]

Let's go.

[Guy Raz]

Hello, welcome to the advice line you were on with Jenny Britton. Tell us your name, where you're calling from and a little bit about your business.

[Ali Zaher]

Hi, Guy. Hi, Jenny. My name is Ali Zaher. I'm calling in from Los Angeles, California. I'm the founder of UBE Co and we make organic purple sweet potato pet treats tailored to sensitive stomach and skin pets.

[Guy Raz]

So purple sweet potato. Tell me the connection between purple sweet potatoes and like dog treats for sensitive stomachs?

[Ali Zaher]

Yeah, for sure. They're made of organic purple sweet potatoes as our main ingredient. The term for it is ube. So ube. Yeah, yeah. A lot of Filipino community loves that as a really high fiber ingredient in, in a lot of food and desserts. So I was looking at just in general in the market, there's not a lot of treats that's tailored to sensitive stomach pets. And I have a dog that has a very sensitive stomach. He is a kavapoo and he's just from when he was young, it was really hard to find high fiber treats for him. So I was cooking a lot of sweet potatoes, a lot of pumpkin, things like that for him and then I found purple sweet potatoes. And then I was doing a lot of research because my background is in science and I found that there's a lot of antioxidants and vitamins and minerals that are really good for their health in purple sweet potatoes. So that's how it started.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. And tell me where you're selling them. Are they, is it direct to consumer through website right now?

[Ali Zaher]

Yeah, mainly direct to consumers. We have, we're in 10 local stores around LA and two in Hawaii. Yeah.

[Guy Raz]

Cool. I mean, give me a sense a little bit about your sales. Have you guys broken 25, $50,000 in sales yet?

[Ali Zaher]

We've broken $50,000 in sales, but not to 100k yet.

[Guy Raz]

Right. Okay, cool. And what's your question for us today?

[Ali Zaher]

So my question is right now, currently we have only relied on organic growth achieving about like 30% returning customer rate online. But we're facing like a really big challenge in reaching new Customers. And I think to scale the business effectively, I think it's time to partner with a PR firm for marketing to allow me to focus on product development. So how can I find a reputable PR firm to help promote UBE Co and expand our reach?

[Guy Raz]

All right, Jenny, I want to bring you in. Dog treats. Sensitive stomachs. Makes a lot of sense. Sweet potatoes. Let's go. Let's figure this out.

[Jenny Britton]

Amazing. Callie, congrats on your business. It's so cool. I mean, I'm always floored. I have two animals, and I adore them. And I always just like, I'm really tuned into this idea that people spend so much money on their pets. And, you know, we need to, like, care for our pets. We do. We care for them like they're our children.

[Guy Raz]

We do.

[Jenny Britton]

I love your background in science, and I think this can really carry you. And I'm just curious, as a scientist, what was your. How does that specifically help you wade through the research? Because when you get a PR firm, I think what they're going to do is figure out what your message is. And so figuring out, like, okay, let's say you're a scientist. You looked through all the research. You created this idea based on what you know, and now you're sharing it with other people. And so have you thought about, like, how to use your experience in a way that. To communicate that with others? And I think that would be, like, what a PR firm might help you do, too.

[Ali Zaher]

Yeah, I've thought a lot about this, actually. I was planning to do, like, a fun ingredient list for each product that I launch with the scientific terms of the ingredients in it. But also, there's like, a little bit of hesitant in the sense that, oh, would people think that it's, like, more like, medicinal or, like, you know, is it chemical? You know, the words kind of sound, like, scary. So I try to use just, like, simpler terms. Antioxidants, high in vitamins and fiber, things like that. But, like, my message right now is not coming out as clear as I want it to be.

[Jenny Britton]

Yeah, that's so much a part of our. What we tackle as entrepreneurs, especially in the beginning, when it's just us doing everything. Getting your communications, what you're saying right. Because you're right. Even though it matters that the science is accurate and that it's there, what are you actually communicating to the customer that activates your customer? And you learn that by selling, by selling to people and listening to feedback with your audience. What's resonating? What are people really? I Mean, yes, the product works, we hope, yes, it works. But why? And what is the thing that you can then use? Because then that becomes your communication strategy which then leads into like when you go and try to get on the Today show.

[Ali Zaher]

Yeah, I think from last year we did a lot of farmers market and like sell directly to customers. And we found that one of the things they're most like interested about is just the UBE itself. We have a slogan called UBE for my bae. And everyone's like, oh, I love UBE so my dogs must love UBE too. And it turns out they do like. So I think that's a good way to attract people. But I think what kept the people coming back is the health benefits, the fiber, the vitamin, the antioxidants. You can see, you can see the improvement in their gut health by feeding them the treats.

[Guy Raz]

What about, I mean, I know you're small and you're probably scrappy, but I mean, have you tried putting. Playing around with social media ads?

[Ali Zaher]

Yes, I've done it. Just me and my husband learning from like YouTube and everything and just launched the ads and it didn't turn out so well. Like pretty much we broke even on what we spent.

[Jenny Britton]

Okay, Right.

[Guy Raz]

Customer acquisition is getting harder and harder on social media. But I will just say this. We have an episode of the show coming up on Misfits Market, which sells like food that would otherwise get thrown away. You know, an apple with a blemish or something. And what they did, and again, this is in 2018, so it was a slightly different environment, but still effective today. I think instead of focusing on, hey, you know, this is still edible, or we sell food for these 30% less, they would literally have like a weird freakish looking carrot. Right. A photo of it and it would just say, this carrot needs a home. That was the ad and people would click on it because it was so weird. You have a product that's unusual. You're using purple sweet potatoes. I know them. Right. But if you go to, you can get them at Trader Joe's. But a lot of people would be like a purple sweet potato. What is that? Right. And so because you've got this sort of literally like a what Seth Godin would call a purple cow product. Right. It's so it's unusual. It stands out. I feel like that could be really just an interesting thing to try.

[Ali Zaher]

Right, Right. I think, I think we just need a lot of guidance in marketing and PR right now because I've tried a few things and I honestly am not good at social media. And I have hired a part time person to help me with TikTok and it's not working as well as I want it to because obviously people don't care as much as I do. So. And I've been reached out by so many PR firms in Los Angeles obviously that like they could help, they could help pitch, they could help get us into stores, they could help. They promised so many. It's not like a promise, but they're trying to sell their PR firms obviously. But it's just hard to find who I can trust.

[Jenny Britton]

I find that PR firms can be really awesome, but you have to have somebody. You have to have somebody at that firm who is your champion.

[Guy Raz]

Yes.

[Jenny Britton]

Who adores you, who believes in you, who wants to push it forward. Otherwise it falls flat and you just, you kind of go nowhere and it's very expensive. You might be better suited to spend that money on somebody who can work for you in multiple places, who could have some contacts with media or know how to speak to them, might be able to also help you with social media or even do that. But who can really organize this communication. Just somebody who's like saying, this is our message out there and where are we going to put it? Who are we going to tell this to? Who can just kind of come in and help organize all that and then that is their only job and it wouldn't even, doesn't even have to be full time yet, you know.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, I think that's really good advice. PR firms are tricky, right. If you find it's that perfect fit, and Jenny's right, I mean, they have to love the product. And if you can find somebody, I mean, look, if you find a firm that has made a pitch and you say to them, look, my budget is $10,000 or $5,000, this is what we can pay, so show us what you can do with that. I mean, there's an argument to be made that you could, if you're willing to take that kind of risk with that amount of money, it might be worth the risk.

[Ali Zaher]

Right.

[Guy Raz]

You say, you know, I don't know social media well. And I think most people feel that way, like, I don't know how to do it. But the reality is most people who do know how to do it, they just figured it out by doing it.

[Jenny Britton]

I love the idea of really going into social media. I know that it's, it's all very scary.

[Ali Zaher]

Yeah.

[Jenny Britton]

But, but Guy is right. You learn by doing it. And also just remember that like people like authenticity and especially now when it doesn't seem like anything is authentic and you're such an authentic person, I can tell, you know, I mean obviously, and people like that realness and just saying, just going on and saying, try to keep it under 30 seconds or even under 15. Just try to say like, this is why I did this. This is why it's good for your, for your puppy. Just show the behind the scenes and just start doing it. And then part of social media too, a big part of it is just talking to everybody else. So going on every other, every, anybody who's talking about dogs or pets, being on their feed, talking to them.

[Ali Zaher]

Right. I was doing that a lot last year. That's why I started hiring another person to help me with like the comments, the likes, the messaging, all that because it was taking a lot of my time. I'm still a full time scientist at ucla and so this is like a part time passion business, you know, side thing that I hope to hope that it will turn into a full time one day. But we depend a lot on brand ambassadors. Like we use an app that like, you know, search for bed brand ambassadors and they get like a percentage of the sales. So that has been really helpful. They make really good contents. But I, I do think the messaging needs to be a little more clear.

[Jenny Britton]

I just want to say like when you said I'm a full time scientist at ucla, like I want to hear that. I'm a full time scientist at ucla. I started a dog food company because I needed something to feed my dog.

[Guy Raz]

Totally.

[Jenny Britton]

You know, and I decided to use UBE because it's purple, you need color, you need vibrancy, you need fiber or dogs. You know, we all do. I love that so much. Just that message over and over and over and over again.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Jenny Britton]

People invest in, in you, even consumers and customers, like they want to know that like, oh, this came from somebody who really cares and really knows what they're doing.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, totally. Yeah, 100% agree. The brand is called Ube. Cowie, thanks so much.

[Jenny Britton]

Thank you.

[Ali Zaher]

Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

Thanks so much for calling in and good luck. Jenny, I've already asked you about luck or skill on the show many years ago, but I have a different question for you which is if you were able to go back even not just at the beginning but like 2005, 2010, when you were still really scrappy business, you weren't this national brand yet. What advice now, now that you know what you know here at this point in your, in your life and career, do you think might have been helpful for you to have known then.

[Jenny Britton]

Oh, this is. I mean, this is what I say when. If people say, what would you have done differently? Yeah, and there are a lot of things I would have done differently, but it's all about who in 20, in 2005, 2006, seven. What I needed on my team were I needed a coach. I needed to understand how founders carry power in companies. As we were beginning to grow. There are leadership things that you can learn pretty quickly, especially if you have somebody on your side who can help you, a business advisor. That was so important to me, especially as we started to grow and to, like, bring on people from the outside. And I needed to learn how to speak that language. I needed somebody on my side outside of the company. And then I would just say a great attorney. As a founder, you know, you have your. Your company attorney or whatever, but you do need to have kind of your own really great attorney just to have somebody to ask questions. There's so much. And if you're a leader in your company, you really need to have an understanding of law. So those people I would have had definitely on my side. Now, going back a little earlier than that, I think we get to where Kali is, and I would also say communications. That was something that I spent a lot of time trying to figure out. And it would have been really cool to have somebody who could just come and say, here's what you're doing really well. This is what people are resonating with, because you might. Whatever you think is probably not the same as what's going on over the counter. So having that communications person just to help me know what I should be saying every single day.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, that's great advice. That's Jenny Britton, founder of Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams. Jenny, thanks so much for coming back on the show.

[Jenny Britton]

Oh, my gosh, this has been so much fun. Thank you for inviting me, Guy, and your team.

[Guy Raz]

You're the best. You're the best. It's great having you. By the way, if you haven't heard Jenny's original How I Built this episode, you've got to go back and check it out. We'll put a link in the podcast description. And here's one of my favorite moments from that interview.

[Jenny Britton]

It was the call that none of us could have imagined ever wanted to get a pint of ice cream in Lincoln, Nebraska, tested positive for listeria. So we decided that we were going to recall everything, which meant that 265 tons of ice cream that had been out in the world came back to us and there we were.

[Guy Raz]

Did you think there was a possibility that you would shut down? That your business could basically end?

[Jenny Britton]

I think at that point we realized that that was it. And it was weird because I kept a journal at the time and I was like, I don't even have any ideas.

[Guy Raz]

Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at Guy Raz. Each week it's packed with tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions you'd like help with, and hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at HIBD or call us at 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there and we'll put all this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Kathryn Seifer with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Neil Rauch. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Elaine Coates, Casey Herman, J.C. howard, Iman Ma'ani, Chris Messini, Kerry Thompson, Neva Grant, and Sam Paulson. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built this. If you like How I Built this, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Mr. Ballin]

You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps? The ones that make you really question what's real? Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest and most mysterious stories are not found in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead in hospital rooms and doctor's offices? Hi, I'm Mr. Ballin, the host of Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries, and each week on my podcast you can expect to hear stories about bizarre illnesses no one can explain, miraculous recoveries that shouldn't have happened, and cases so baffling they stumped even the best doctors. So if you crave totally true and thoroughly twisted horror stories and mysteries, Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries should be your new Go to weekly show. Listen to Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.