Advice Line with Lara Merriken of LÄRABAR (October 2024)

Summary

Summary of "Advice Line with Lara Merriken of LÄRABAR" (October 2024) on How I Built This with Guy Raz

In the January 9, 2025 episode of How I Built This with Guy Raz, titled "Advice Line with Lara Merriken of LÄRABAR," host Guy Raz reconnects with Lara Merriken, the founder of LÄRABAR. The episode centers around Lara’s expertise as the show’s regular Advice Line guest, where she assists aspiring entrepreneurs in overcoming various business challenges. This episode features insightful discussions with three founders seeking guidance on scaling their niche products, securing retail distribution, and effective fundraising strategies. Below is a detailed breakdown of the key segments and insights shared during the episode.

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Introduction

Guy Raz opens the episode by reintroducing Lara Merriken, highlighting her journey with LÄRABAR from its humble beginnings to its acquisition by General Mills. He reminisces about their previous interactions and sets the stage for the Advice Line segment, inviting listeners to call in with their business questions. The emphasis is on practical advice tailored to real-world entrepreneurial challenges.

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Caller 1: Allison Repp of Joy Breeders

Caller Introduction (07:32 - 09:37): Allison Repp, co-founder of Joy Breeders, a Denver-based toxin-free body care company, calls in with her business challenge. Joy Breeders aims to provide safe, non-toxic moisturizers while inspiring customers to "rewild themselves."

Business Challenge: Allison seeks advice on how to scale her niche skincare brand without losing the humor and authenticity that define Joy Breeders as they enter larger markets.

Key Discussion Points:

• Understanding Market Fit and Customer Feedback (09:56 - 11:00):

  Lara Merriken asks Allison about the feedback they receive, emphasizing the importance of knowing what customers love about both the product and the brand's authentic voice.

  "What do they like about it? What is it doing for them?" [09:56]

  Allison Repp shares positive feedback highlighting the product’s effectiveness and clean ingredients.

  "People say, you know, I've had dry, cracked skin for my whole life, and nothing's ever worked. I've tried 50 products, and this is the first thing that has worked for me." [10:26]

• Maintaining Authenticity While Scaling (12:11 - 16:43):

  Guy Raz challenges the notion of authenticity as a problem to solve, suggesting that focusing on product quality should naturally preserve brand integrity.

  "If the product is good, then everything else that I've been talking about with who we are and what we're trying to inspire just comes alongside that." [19:05]

  Lara Merriken advises Allison to understand where the brand fits in the market and to ensure product stability before expansive scaling.

  "Make sure that the product is stable in its packaging and all of that before you get distributed out widely." [19:59]

Advice Given:

• Focus on Product Quality: Ensure that the core product remains exceptional as you scale, as this will naturally sustain brand authenticity.

• Market Placement: Strategically choose retail placements that align with the brand’s identity, such as niche grocery stores rather than mainstream ones.

• Gradual Expansion: Test markets like Denver can serve as incubators to refine strategies before moving into larger regions.

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Caller 2: Mariano Cuesta of Mac's Brands

Caller Introduction (24:45 - 29:13): Mariano Cuesta, founder of Mac's Brands, introduces his products—Mac's Caffeine Gum and Max Caffeine Mints—as alternatives to coffee and energy drinks. His challenge lies in securing major retail distribution after an initial but limited success with Walmart.

Business Challenge: Mariano seeks strategies to penetrate major retail doors despite already witnessing substantial growth through direct-to-consumer channels.

Key Discussion Points:

• Retail Placement Confusion (27:35 - 28:26):

  Mariano explains the logistical issues faced when his products were placed in the candy aisle, leading to consumer confusion about the product’s purpose.

  "We had people actually next to energy drinks... and also, we have had people put it in the candy section." [27:35]

• Competitive Landscape and Product Differentiation (30:37 - 32:23):

  Mariano Cuesta highlights that his products contain 125mg of caffeine per piece, significantly higher than competitors’ offerings, aiming to provide a substantial energy boost without the side effects of traditional caffeine sources.

  "125 milligrams of caffeine is equivalent to about a cup and a quart of coffee." [31:32]

  Lara Merriken points out the competitive advantage of packaging and clear value propositions, urging Mariano to communicate the unique benefits succinctly.

  "If you want people to pick your product up, you've gotta make it compelling." [33:05]

Advice Given:

• Clear Messaging: Enhance product packaging and branding to clearly communicate the high caffeine content and its benefits. For instance, using taglines like "Rocket Fuel for Your Workout" can immediately convey the product’s purpose.

• Target Specific Niches: Focus on specific user groups such as athletes or professionals who require sustained energy without the drawbacks of coffee.

• Strategic Retail Placement: Advocate for placement in sections that align with the product’s functionality, such as the sports or wellness aisles, rather than the candy section.

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Caller 3: Loretta Naquacha of Loretta's British Ginger Tea

Caller Introduction (39:29 - 44:23): Loretta Naquacha, founder of Loretta's British Ginger Tea, shares her personal journey of creating a ginger-based beverage to alleviate severe morning sickness during pregnancy, which evolved into a commercial product aimed at providing anti-inflammatory benefits.

Business Challenge: Loretta is struggling with fundraising to extend her product’s shelf life and transition to eco-friendly packaging. Despite having invested $25,000 and launching a successful Kickstarter campaign, she faces difficulties in securing additional funding.

Key Discussion Points:

• Product Development and Challenges (43:52 - 44:08):

  Loretta discusses the technical challenges of making her ginger tea shelf-stable and moving away from plastic bottles to align with her brand’s eco-friendly values.

  "I have to extend the shelf life, if it's possible, and also get it out of plastic bottles." [43:52]

• Effective Fundraising Strategies (44:23 - 51:38):

  Guy Raz suggests leveraging personal networks and refining her crowdfunding approach to better narrate her compelling story and the product’s unique benefits.

  "You are an actor. You have incredible charisma... use those qualities to build this brand up slowly and methodically." [45:30]

  Lara Merriken encourages Loretta to create a natural rapport when asking for funds, emphasizing small, manageable asks to build momentum.

  "If you don't ask, you never know." [51:38]

Advice Given:

• Leverage Personal Skills: Utilize Loretta’s acting background to enhance storytelling in fundraising pitches, making the campaign more engaging and relatable.

• Crowdfunding Optimization: Re-launch crowdfunding efforts with a more structured plan, possibly seeking mentorship or guidance to navigate platforms effectively.

• Community Engagement: Start with close networks—friends and family—who believe in her mission and can provide initial funding or introductions to potential investors.

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Closing Remarks

Guy Raz concludes the episode by reflecting on the shared stories and the importance of perseverance and authenticity in entrepreneurship. He emphasizes that successful scaling and overcoming business challenges come from a solid understanding of one's product and market, coupled with strategic planning and unwavering passion. Lara Merriken also shares her ongoing commitment to supporting entrepreneurs through coaching and educational initiatives, inspired by her own journey with LÄRABAR.

Notable Quote:

"If you lead with curiosity, people will tell you a lot." – Lara Merriken [35:55]

Guy encourages listeners to reach out with their business challenges, fostering a community of support and continuous learning.

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Key Takeaways

1. Maintain Product Quality: Prioritize the effectiveness and uniqueness of your product to naturally sustain brand authenticity during scaling.

2. Strategic Market Placement: Ensure your product is placed in retail sections that align with its function and target demographic to avoid consumer confusion.

3. Effective Storytelling: Leverage personal narratives and employ clear, compelling messaging to differentiate your product in a saturated market.

4. Optimized Fundraising: Utilize personal networks, refine crowdfunding strategies, and harness individual strengths to secure necessary funding.

5. Continuous Learning and Adaptation: Use initial markets as testing grounds to refine strategies before broader expansion, ensuring long-term sustainability and growth.

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This episode serves as a masterclass in balancing growth with brand integrity, offering valuable lessons for entrepreneurs aiming to scale their startups without compromising their core values and unique brand voices.

Transcript

[Guy Raz]

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[Guy Raz]

Hey everyone, it's Guy here. So our team is just getting back from our holiday break, so this week we've got a great episode from the archives, our advice line conversation with Lara Marikin of larabar. We'll be back with fresh Advice Line episodes starting next week and I'll be joined by some pretty incred incredible guests like Joe Jebbia, co founder of Airbnb, and Jack Conti, who co founded Patreon. So stay tuned and thank you to all of you who've called in so far. I cannot wait to talk through more of your business challenges in the new year and I'M looking forward to hearing your ideas, so enjoy the show. Hello and welcome to the advice line on How I Built this Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week I'm joined by legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a 1 minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice [e-mail] and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget, sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for [e-mail] and we'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Lara Marekin, the founder of Larabar. Lara, welcome back to the show.

[Lara Marekin]

Thanks for having me, Guy. It's wonderful to be back.

[Guy Raz]

So great hanging. I don't think I've seen you since we took a run in Denver like a couple years ago before the pandemic.

[Lara Marekin]

That's hard to believe that it's been that long. Four years.

[Guy Raz]

I know. For a long time I was seeing you all the time you were coming to our summits and stuff. Anyway, it's great to have you back on the show. You were first on the show way back in 2018, and back then you of course told the story of how you created this incredible brand, Larabar. And of course, if anyone listening hasn't heard that episode, just go back in our podcast feed and listen to it. It is such a great episode. We'll put a link in the podcast description as well. But basically this is back in 2000. You were in your early 30s, recently divorced, unemployed, not at a great place in life as you described it, and you started experimenting with your own energy bar for hikes, basically taking unsweetened fruit and nuts and just grinding them up in your Cuisinart and shaping them into bars.

[Lara Marekin]

I did. And I mean, I did not plan on starting a business. I was a passionate natural food person, always looking for great alternatives. And I found myself on a hike one day eating a trail mix and this light bulb went off for me and I just knew it Intuitively that I needed to follow my idea.

[Guy Raz]

And within just a couple of years, you were selling millions of these larvars. And eventually, of course, you sold the brand to General Mills. And unlike a lot of founders who kind of sell their companies and then take off, you stayed on to help the team at General Mills for quite a while to continue to grow the brand. Before we bring our callers, I want to ask you about your experience. Kind of dig a little deeper. I remember you talked about one of the first things you did when you were starting the brand was you got a job at Whole Foods. You basically just got a job as a cashier and stock clerk for the paycheck, in part, but also to learn about the natural food business, to get a ground view of how they operated, which I thought was so smart. A lot of entrepreneurs have side hustles. I mean, what kind of advice do you have for people who are sort of in that phase where they're starting a business and they're not sure whether they should be doing another job or to leave that job or when to leave that job, if to leave that.

[Lara Marekin]

Job, you know, there isn't one right way to do this. For me, I realized that I knew very little about the actual business. I knew that I was kind of my own core consumer. But I also, I guess the way I would liken it is I wanted to put my fantasy into a reality check. And so by getting into the business at Whole Foods, I looked at it as a paid internship and a way to get a leg in and learn directly without wasting time asking other people's opinions. I immerse myself in that environment. So I would say to people, learn as much as you can. Put yourself in situations and really open yourself up to. You don't know anything because you really don't know anything until you get into it.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Well, Lara, I'm super, super excited that you're on to help me. Hopefully we can give some good advice here. Let's go ahead and take our first caller. And let's have our caller introduce themselves. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

[Allison Repp]

Hello, I am Allison Repp. I am one of three co founders of a body care company called Joy Breeders in Denver, Colorado. And we are on a mission to keep people moisturized without any toxins while inspiring them to rewild themselves.

[Guy Raz]

Amazing. Okay, you're in Denver, so not too far from where Lara started Larabars. Yeah. And tell me about. So it's called Joy Breeders.

[Allison Repp]

Joy Breeders.

[Guy Raz]

And it is a skincare brand. Tell me a little bit about how it works. Like, what makes it unique or different.

[Allison Repp]

Yeah, well, you know, it's. I made it because my boyfriend has a rare skin condition, and I was really tired of being in the stores and checking the ingredients of these clean brands and seeing that there were still toxins. And so what's different is that this truly is only 5 or 7, depending on the pure ingredients.

[Guy Raz]

And so when did you start making. When did you start selling it?

[Allison Repp]

I started making it about three and a half years ago, and then I gave it out to people for Christmas one year, and everybody was like, what is this? I have to buy this? And I never thought I'd be starting a body care company, but we launched it after listening to everybody in June of 2023, so just a little over a year ago.

[Guy Raz]

And where do you guys. And how many products do you have? How many different skus do you have?

[Allison Repp]

Yeah, right now we have three different ones. We have two different versions of Moist, which is our body moisturizer, and then we have one called Pouty Mouth, which is a lip balm.

[Guy Raz]

Got it. And where do you guys mainly sell your products?

[Allison Repp]

Right now we are in boutiques. We just got into a couple of grocery stores in Colorado. We're in a couple. Couple stores in Hawaii. We are in some boutique motels and direct to consumer as well.

[Guy Raz]

Nice. Okay, and what's your. What's your question for us today?

[Allison Repp]

My question is how can we scale a niche product like ours while keeping the humor and the authenticity that define our brand as we move into these larger markets?

[Guy Raz]

All right, we'll get to your question in a moment. Lara, I want to bring you in. First of all, do you have any questions for Alison?

[Lara Marekin]

Well, first of all, I had a very similar issue. I had this exact same question when I started out. So my question to you is, I've looked up your brand online, and it looks really, really fun. It has a nice vibe. And so far as you're selling to your consumers in these stores and online, what kind of feedback are people giving you about your product? What do they like about it? What is it doing for them?

[Allison Repp]

Yeah, so we get so much feedback. That was so unexpected. I'm a licensed psychotherapist. I never thought I'd be helping people in this way, but it's such an honor. But people say, you know, I've had dry, cracked skin for my whole life, and nothing's ever worked. I've tried 50 products, and this is the first thing that has worked for me, they love the clean ingredients. They love that it's. It sinks into your skin. And even though it's oil based and shea butter based, it doesn't stay oily, but the moisture locks in. So that's the biggest. I could go on and on, but I'll zip my lips now.

[Lara Marekin]

Well, I hear you saying that you want to market it authentically and have that humor and authenticity. Like, what is it that people love about that aspect of it as well?

[Allison Repp]

Yeah. So one of my co founders is my boyfriend who I made it for, and the other one is my best friend. And we are the Joy readers. And we were dubbed that name because people would see us posting things online on our social media, and they would come to us and say, you being your authentic selves allows me to be my authentic self. And there is just no higher honor than hearing that. And so that is. That is our bigger mission, and that's something that we want to do just through being the face of our company. Right. Like showing, modeling, being your authentic self.

[Lara Marekin]

Well, that's a great way to lead what you're about, being your authentic self. I heard, like, taglines in what you just said, that authenticity is kind of a lead, like fun, sexy, and authentic. Right?

[Allison Repp]

Yeah, we just like to play our way through lives. Like, we're always doing wild, crazy, funny things. You know, playful is one of our biggest values.

[Guy Raz]

Alison, one of the things that, I mean, the question you ask is, like, how can we maintain our authenticity while we're scaling? And I guess what I would just kind of push back on that question is to ask you whether that really is a problem. I mean, I'm not sure this is. It sounds to me more like a problem looking for a solution or a solution looking for a problem. I would say don't create a problem where one doesn't exist. Right. Like, to me, I think you want to focus on scale or focus on sustainability. One or the other, or both, if you can. But I mean, the authenticity side, first of all, it's a word that I have trouble with, to be honest, because I think that it's really overused. It's a buzzword, for sure, massively overused. And I think that the more it's used, the less actually authentic something or someone is. And you often see this on social media where people say, be your most authentic self. And I think to myself, you're standing in front of a camera and you are acting, and so how are you actually authentic? So I guess to me, authenticity is when you don't actually need to or have to really worry about that word. I mean, you've got a product, you've got a story, you love it, your friends love it. So that's authentic. Now the question is to me, how do you focus on growing the product? How do you focus on getting it out there? So tell me a little bit about what you're doing. Are you working with social media influencers? Are you demoing the product? Tell me a little bit about how you're getting the word out.

[Allison Repp]

Yeah, we are demoing the product constantly, especially at these new grocery stores that we've just been in. And we are talking with a lot of influencers as well. We just went to the Nootopia now event. What is that Newtopia now is. It used to be Expo East. So it's a CPG expo and we got a lot of unexpected attention there. We had people from big stores coming to us. We've just been kind of after that expo just preparing for what those meetings are going to look like and it sounds like we'll be in more and more stores.

[Lara Marekin]

I have a follow up question to Guy's point. In terms of as you're going to scale, how have you guys looked at how you see yourself fitting into the market? Do you see yourself in grocery stores and boutique stores and where does your product fit into the category? I guess is what I'm asking.

[Allison Repp]

Yeah, it's a good question. And we're kind of figuring some of that out by trial and error, but some of it. We also know we are a more luxury product. So we're not going to be in just regular grocery stores probably we're in more of the niche grocery stores like Lucky's and the more natural, focused grocery stores.

[Lara Marekin]

Yeah, I think looking at where do you fit in as you're growing, as Guy said, you know, you're looking at scaling but where are you going to scale? What does that look like? What is the consumer? I mean, I'm thinking do you belong in department stores? Right. Like, like higher end ones like Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom? Because body care is a lot of places in spas and all kinds of stuff.

[Allison Repp]

Yes, yes to all those. See, you just answered the question for me. I started falling into this backwards and I still am. Like you were saying, you're just always figuring things out. So yes, definitely that is a dream. And also to be in hotels, we're working with some hotels not being just given in the rooms but being in their mini bars because people really go after that stuff, when they're traveling, especially to dry climates.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Allison Repp]

Guy, do you mind if I circle back to one thing that you were saying about the authenticity piece? I think the fear is not that we're being authentic or not, but that it's not very often that you see a brand where the founders are the face of the company, they're customer facing. And it's a big. The story is a big part of it. And so as we expand, I'm just not wanting to lose that because our bigger mission really is to inspire people to, as I said, rewild themselves as we were before we even became joy breeders officially, if that makes sense.

[Guy Raz]

So, I mean, so the question, I guess is the question how, how should we remain the face of the brand or.

[Allison Repp]

Yeah, I don't, I don't know how it works. Right. When you start getting into these bigger stores, I don't know what they expect of you. I don't know if I'm going to need to stand my ground when we, when we start to talk to maybe talk about maybe selling. You know, Lara, you said that you stayed on for a while. I just don't want to lose the, the bigger mission of the company as we move into that.

[Guy Raz]

I mean, you've only been around for about a year now, right? I think so. I mean, you've got a ways to go before, I just think, before you have to worry about that. I think that you've got a lot of work ahead of you. I think it sounds like it's a great product and you've got interest in the product and there are people who like the product. And so, I mean, I think this is a conversation or a concern that you might want to really have in like two or three years as you start to see growth and scale. That's just my view.

[Allison Repp]

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Lara Marekin]

I don't disagree with you, Guy. And also Alison, Denver was my incubator place and it's a great way to test things out, see what works. Does it work being in the grocery stores? Are you better off in a different spot? And what we did as a company is we used Denver as a testing ground and what worked we would do other places as we expanded brand.

[Allison Repp]

Got it.

[Guy Raz]

I also think that if you look at. And by the way, there are lots of brands that we've had on the show where the founders are the face of the brand, but then you look at a lot of products that are deeply tied to the founder, like Spanx and Sarah Blakely or Larabar, which is literally the name of the person that is on this call with me. And at the end of the day, it's the product. I mean, very few people bought Spanx because they loved Sara Blakely. She's lovable and terrific. But that's not why people bought the product. They bought it because it was really effective. So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether Allison is interesting or funny or, you know, that's great. You don't not want to be those things. But it's. Do you make a good product that people like?

[Allison Repp]

Yeah.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Allison Repp]

Actually, a lot of things just clicked. So thank you for that. I think I've been really message forward, coming from my psychotherapist background, and what I hear you saying is if the product is good, then everything else that I've been talking about with who we are and what we're trying to inspire just comes alongside that or a little bit behind it.

[Guy Raz]

I think so. And I think it's great that you went to the trade show and there's some interest in carrying the product. I mean, I also think that small boutiques are really effective. I mean, that's how Sunbum really began its growth, you know, by going to small boutiques in places like Hawaii. I think you mentioned you're in Hawaii.

[Allison Repp]

Right.

[Guy Raz]

So Hawaii tends to be a really great place to put these things in because you've got a lot of tourists. They're walking through shops, they're looking at products, they've got time and they pick things up.

[Allison Repp]

Yeah.

[Guy Raz]

Lara, any final words of wisdom for Alison?

[Lara Marekin]

I would just use this time to just pay attention to everything going on, make sure that the product is stable in its packaging and all of that before you get distributed out widely. Right. Like in my world with food, it was, what's the shelf life? But you have the same thing in body care, and you want to make sure that you're dotting your I's and crossing your T's with that stuff so that you know that when you go to a bigger retailer that wants you, you're like, you're solid on that. You know what works, what doesn't, and you're still going to learn on the fly. But this is a great time to really do that research and development thoroughly.

[Mariano Cuesta]

Yeah.

[Allison Repp]

Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

Indeed. Indeed. Alison Repp. The brand's called Joy Breeders. Good luck.

[Allison Repp]

Thanks for calling.

[Guy Raz]

All right. By the way, speaking of skincare routines, I would say in, like, the last two years, I have started to do something I never did in my life. I use like a mineral sunblock on my face every day. I mean, a friend of mine is a dermatologist, is like, if you're not using that every day, you're basically like exposing yourself to skin damage.

[Lara Marekin]

And you're on the west coast now, Right?

[Guy Raz]

I know.

[Lara Marekin]

And so you have to pay attention to that stuff.

[Guy Raz]

I'm out and walking every single day. You know, I'm in the Bay Area. We're lucky we get to do that year round. So I'm all about it. As I approach the age of 50, I'm all about it.

[Lara Marekin]

Wow, that's an exciting milestone for you.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, it's exciting. All right, after the break, another caller with another business challenge. I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your business questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab.

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[Guy Raz]

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[Guy Raz]

You know, every year I think to myself about the new goals I'm going to set for myself. But did you know that only 8% of us will stick with the resolutions we make? Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns is a simple tool that makes it easy to lock in years and years of healthy money habits in just five minutes. Head to acorns.com built or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Tier 5 compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered registered investment advisor view important [e-mail] built welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. My guest today is Lara Marekin. She's the founder of the energy bar brand Larabar. So, Lara, let's, let's get right into it and take another call.

[Lara Marekin]

Can't wait to meet the next caller.

[Guy Raz]

Hello, welcome to the advice line. You are on with me and Laura Merrickin. Welcome. Please tell us your name, where are you calling from and a little bit about your business.

[Mariano Cuesta]

Hi, my name is Mariano Cuesta. I'm based out of Miami, Florida, the founder of Mac's Brands, which is the owner of Mac's Caffeine Gum and Max Caffeine Mints. We provide an alternative to coffee and energy drinks and also provide the caffeine kick and fix that you would like.

[Guy Raz]

All right. So Mariano, a lot of questions for you. First of all, how did you, I mean, how did you get into this business? I don't think you were the inventor of caffeine gum. I'm sure that versions of this have been around for a while. But how did you get into making this product?

[Mariano Cuesta]

So it was an afternoon where kind of the light bulb went off. I was working late and it was about 4 or 5 in the afternoon. And I'm a huge coffee drinker. I used to work in finance in New York and coffee was life pretty much. And this day in particular, I didn't want more coffee, but I was a little bit sleepy and I wanted more caffeine. And that's kind of where I started going down the rabbit hole of like, okay, what alternatives are there? And after a lot of research, you're right that there were there was already chewing them. I'm not the inventor of chewing on a caffeine, but I did realize what was out there wasn't either very good, was very expensive or not effective. So I thought, you know, hey, I think we could do something here.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, I imagine that there are plenty of people who probably want this, right? Like, people have to work later. And by the way, does it have the same effect? Let's be honest, because when you drink a lot of coffee, you have to go pee or something else. Does this have the same effect?

[Mariano Cuesta]

Guy, I'm so glad you asked that question. When I started this company, my focus was on people and, you know, finance and people that work late. And when started going and showing the product off to people, I started to realize this is much bigger. You've got the Uber drivers, the truck drivers who appreciated this because they didn't have to go to the bathroom after drinking coffee. Educators, athletes. Athletes. I had never even thought of athletes. And athletes end up being like a huge segment in this world because they don't want to drink a lot of coffee or an energy drink and then go run a few miles. They don't want that slush in their stomach. So the world of what this product, who it's applicable to and who find a lot of benefit to was a lot bigger than I originally thought. And that was very eye opening for me.

[Guy Raz]

Got it. And from what I gathered, this was at one time available in some stores or I think even maybe in Walmart, but it's not anymore. Now you're mainly selling direct to consumer.

[Mariano Cuesta]

You're absolutely right. We sell direct to consumer. We are in about 50 smaller stores. We had a tester run with Walmart.

[Guy Raz]

All over the country or just in Florida.

[Mariano Cuesta]

It was all over the country. Originally it was gonna be 100 stores and ended up being 450. And so it was quite a ride. Learned a lot. We kind of got some guidance from the buyer in terms of how to package this for the candy aisle, which ended up hurting us just logistically.

[Guy Raz]

Put you in the candy aisle.

[Mariano Cuesta]

Yes, correct.

[Guy Raz]

And is that where you want it to be? Did you want this product to be alongside just regular chewing gum and candy?

[Mariano Cuesta]

Originally? We did. We did. It was either that or the sports section. But, you know, it ended up being a pretty big issue. And we're back online. I am, you know, still fighting to get into stores.

[Guy Raz]

I mean, awesome that you had that opportunity and you learned a lot from that. But basically people were confused, like, what is this? Is it a supplement? But it was in the candy section. A lot of confusion. Before I, before I get to Lara, what's. What's the question you have for us?

[Mariano Cuesta]

Right. So it's actually based on What I just talked about, just a little bit of background. We, we, since we left Walmart, we've tripled our sales online. More than triple our sales online. We continue to grow the brand. The category itself is growing. There's data behind this, and yet we're having trouble getting our foot in the door with some of these major buyers. I understand they're inundated, but my question would be that how do you get your foot in these doors?

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, Laura. American. A lot to unpack here. This is a cool, cool idea. What are your thoughts on this?

[Lara Marekin]

Well, first of all, I think it's a very innovative product. And I like that you've taken gum and caffeine because it's a very easy to use product for people, right. Gums everywhere, caffeine's everywhere in the form of coffee, mainly, and energy drinks. And my question to you is, where are people going to buy this? I was thinking as you were talking, where would I go to buy this? But what are you finding out about the marketplace right now?

[Mariano Cuesta]

It's a great question. Some of the stores that we're in have put us actually next to energy drinks as well. Well, it sells well in those places. We haven't had many people put in the supplement section, and then we have had people put it in the candy section. So in terms of just trying to figure out, you know, where it sells more. And obviously that's a function also of is there enough shelf space to put a product like this? Because, you know, energy drinks in that section is very full. So we've had to find ways around it. We actually started selling them in, like, clips. You can hang the bags. You don't have to move anything.

[Guy Raz]

So, Mariano, what is the, the competitive landscape like? Because there have to be other caffeine gum brands out there.

[Mariano Cuesta]

Absolutely, yes. There's. There's a couple other brands. Big, big brands. They've done a great job. I will say that when I started looking into this stuff, the problem I had was I didn't like, it didn't feel like gum oil's so expensive. And one of the things we really wanted to do with this gum is we did put a lot of caffeine into each piece. We put 125mg of caffeine per piece.

[Guy Raz]

More than what I'm seeing from the competitors. They have like 50 to 60 grams.

[Mariano Cuesta]

Correct. And our goal was, like, we want you, when you chew this and that, you feel it like you are ready to go, ready to take on anything that's going on. In the day. And that was our goal. So just for the listeners, 125 milligrams of caffeine is equivalent to about a cup and a quart of coffee. So we really wanted that to be a differentiator.

[Lara Marekin]

Yeah, you're packing a punch. Right. So that to me is a competitive advantage over what's going on in the marketplace and why somebody would want to bring you in to compete with somebody else.

[Mariano Cuesta]

Correct. Also, another, another big. The thing we have going for us, we're cheaper. And yeah, that was done. We were. That was done absolutely by design. We, when we saw what the pricing was out there, we're just like, why would anyone pay this much? Because at the end of the day, we're going to be compared to chewing gum. Right. So why would anyone pay so much more for chewing gum? I understand as caffeine, there's definitely a value add there. I don't. But to be paying 10, 15 times with normal chewing gum, I, I didn't think that was right. So one of the things we really set out to do was provide a better product with more caffeine at a lower, more affordable price.

[Guy Raz]

You know, one of the things that I think is interesting about the opportunity here is that everything that you've talked about, you've told us here in this conversation is not reflected in the product when you see it on the shelves, like where you want to start, but in the storytelling side of it is with the packaging and with your whole kind of theme on your website. It says world's strongest caffeine gun. But what does that tell me? It doesn't tell me anything. I need to understand all the things you just told me in just a few words right from the get go on the packaging, on the website, in your brand bible that clearly you haven't put together. And you should put together because it's going to really help you.

[Lara Marekin]

I would agree. I had the same issue. So when I started Larabar, it was fruit and nuts, and nuts have a lot of fat in them. And people would freak out about the fat and I would have to figure out, yes, good fat, you need that fat. At the time, no one was on that bandwagon, Guy. Nobody had educated us. And so I had to, as a company, lead the way and I had to articulate it in a way that it was fun for people and interesting and they felt like they knew something. So as Guy was pointing out, like, if you want people to pick your product up, you've gotta make it compelling. Why is gum and Caffeine compelling, right? And then I'm gonna go back to. You're talking about they wanna put you in the candy aisle. I had the exact same problem. I remember we were getting into a major retailer, and at the time, I wasn't clear about where I saw Larabar. And they decided out of nowhere to put it near candy bars. That would have been the kiss for us in terms of going straight out of that store, because we didn't belong with candy bars. We were a nutrition bar, a healthier version, kind of indulgent and delicious. And I really pushed back and we didn't end up going into that retailer, which was a good thing, because you have to be in the right spot where people are actually going to find you.

[Guy Raz]

Absolutely. Critical point here, I think, which is sometimes, even when the opportunity seems amazing, you've got to stick to your principles and your vision around this product. Right. Like, this is not candy to me. I mean, this is something that you would discover at a gnc, right. Or in the protein powders aisle at Whole Foods. And where I think you have an opportunity, right. You've got 125 grams of caffeine. That's 30 grams more than the cup of coffee. And to me, it's like you could have a tagline on your bag that literally says rocket fuel for your workout. I understand you're trying to reach people, Uber drivers and nighttime people and hospital workers, but maybe you want to just start by focusing on one of those categories and the other ones may follow naturally. It's like you start with a tribe. Lara started with hikers. Now Larabar's consumed by. It's a mass consumption product. What do you think, Lara? And you can disagree with me, Lara. You can tell me that I'm full of it.

[Lara Marekin]

You're not full of it. You have great ideas, guys. You're a natural entrepreneur. I think it's very smart, like little test groups. You can test the Uber drivers, you can test the athletes. You can do your own little focus groups and figure out who's using it and why they're using it and what is it doing for them.

[Mariano Cuesta]

Right? Right.

[Lara Marekin]

If you lead with curiosity, people will tell you a lot. And I would also say that, like, people do know what caffeine is, but they don't know. Right? They know. They go to, say, Starbucks to get their coffee or the coffee shop. But what are you offering that's different than that? Like, how can you replace that? Like, for Larabar, it was portable food. Right? You're eating real food still but you're on the go and you still have that quality there, right?

[Mariano Cuesta]

Right.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Simple messages, simple value proposition. Feel your workout, whatever it says. But simple few words on there that tells me what it is because Max doesn't do it. It's not. Caffeine gum is not enough.

[Mariano Cuesta]

Okay, perfect. I appreciate the advice, guys.

[Guy Raz]

Thanks. Thanks for calling in, Mariano. The product's called Max Caffeine Gum. Good luck, man. Thanks for calling in.

[Mariano Cuesta]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Lara Marekin]

Bye.

[Mariano Cuesta]

Bye.

[Guy Raz]

I mean, I think I'm gonna try this. I'm gonna get. I'm gonna. I'm definitely gonna try this.

[Lara Marekin]

I am, too. I love tea, I love coffee, but I think there's a great market for this. It's just a matter of connecting with people, right?

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. All right, let's take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to to the advice line right here on how I built this lab. So you want to be a marketer? It's easy. You just have to score a ton of leads and figure out a way to turn them all into customers. Plus manage a dozen channels, write a million blogs, and launch 100 campaigns all at once. When that's done, simply make your socials.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Go viral and bring in record profits.

[Guy Raz]

No sweat. Okay, fine, it's a lot of sweat. But with HubSpot's AI powered marketing tools, launching benchmark breaking campaigns is easier than ever. Get [e-mail] marketers. If you've been listening to me for a while, you know that I am really interested in fitness and eating the right foods. And for the past year, the single biggest game changer for me has been a biowearable called Lingo. Basically, it's a little device that you stick onto the back of your arm to measure your body's glucose levels. To see how your body responds to food and learn what you can do to improve your metabolism. Try Lingo. It starts at $49 for a two week plan. No prescription needed for a limited time. Save 10% on your first order by visiting helolingo.com and using the code HIB at checkout. The Lingo glucose system is for users 18 years and older not on insulin. It is not intended for diagnosis of diseases, including diabetes. For more information, please visit. Hello, Lingo.com us. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking calls with Lara Marekan. Lara, what do you say? Let's bring on another caller.

[Lara Marekin]

That sounds great.

[Guy Raz]

All right, let's bring in our next caller. Hello. Welcome to the show.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Hello. Thank you for having me on the show. I'm so excited.

[Guy Raz]

I can tell. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Okay. My name is Loretta Naquacha. I am the founder of Loretta's British Ginger Tea. It is a New York based company and I am currently in Costa Rica. And Loretta's British Ginger tea is a blend of unique, proprietary, functional ginger based beverages.

[Guy Raz]

Mm. Okay, so let's kind of break this down. So this is ginger tea made with ginger root. Like it's strong and spicy. Right. Like it clears your sinuses kind of ginger.

[Loretta Naquacha]

It is so strong and spicy. I mean, I give the option on the bottle, on the label that if it is too much, you can water it down with, you know, so that you don't get the potency, but you still get the health benefits. And you can have it hot. Because we Brits, we love to have our tea hot and we have several cups a day. So you. I actually drink it hot and then on. On the weekend, I drink it cold straight out of the fridge with a bit of tequila.

[Guy Raz]

So, Loretta, how did you tell me about the idea behind the product? I mean, is it. Were you in food and beverage? What were you doing? How did the. How did you start this thing? Or why?

[Loretta Naquacha]

Darling, darling, I'm not even in any. Like, I don't come from business. The only business I came from was show business business. I am an actor and singer and I've done it pretty much my whole life. I went to the Royal Central School of Speech and Drama in London, the same school that Judi Dench went to. Okay, so, yeah, anyway, so then. Okay, fast forward 2009. I'm pregnant with my first child in New York. And like many women, I had awful, dreadful morning sickness. Now, morning sickness is supposed to last fast for the morning for maybe the first trimester, I. E. The first three months.

[Guy Raz]

Yes.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Now mine went on all day for about six months.

[Guy Raz]

Oh, my gosh.

[Allison Repp]

Yeah.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Marvelous. So what I did was my doctor said that ginger is really helpful to kind of quell the nausea. So I would sip on ginger ale. I'm not really a soda person, but I would sip on this thing and it helped a little bit.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Fast forward five years. I'm pregnant now with my second child in 2014. I said, you know what? I know what to expect this time. I'm not bloody gonna drink ginger ale. I'M gonna find something else that's gonna help. My doctor recommended that I take anti nausea medication. I said, no way, I'm making a human. I don't want medication.

[Guy Raz]

No.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Yeah, she, she suggested ginger candy. I said, okay, let me give it a try. It was basically sugar.

[Guy Raz]

Yes.

[Loretta Naquacha]

I thought, well, I don't need diabetes while I'm pregnant, so no. So I, my husband, God bless himself, my husband was the one who said, listen, why don't I just go to the store, pick up some ginger root. You can slice it up and make your own.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Loretta Naquacha]

And that was the first time I'd ever set my eyes on ginger root. So I sliced it up, boiled it up. It worked. It was amazing. And I loved the way that it tasted. So I would drink it every single day. It helped with the nausea. And I've been drinking it every single day since 2014 when I made this.

[Guy Raz]

I love this. And by the way, ginger also anti inflammatory. It's a great. And it's just an amazing route. You just, it's so there's so many things you can do with it. Okay, so this clearly has helped, was helping you. And then at what point did you say, you know, I'm going to turn this into a business, I'm going to bottle this up and try and sell this.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Well, I've got my sister Helen to thank for that because basically I would make batches of tea when any of my friends would get sick. I knew that ginger was helpful for, you know, colds and flu. So I'd make them a batch, deliver it to their house. House for free. So my sister saw me making these little mini bottles. They're very cute little things, showing you how to make a hot toddy. So a little bit of brandy and my ginger tea. Yummy. So she was like, hello. She was like, lori, why'd you keep giving this away? Why aren't you selling this? I said, okay, I don't know anything about business. Why would I start? She goes, I don't know, research it. I said, okay, I did it. September 2021, I made my first sale in the farmer's market in my little town of Babylon, Long Island, New York. And so I then managed to basically take bottles and go to various stores, all the sort of health food stores. And it had to be refrigerated. The shelf life was so short, like six weeks. So I had to realize that, okay, I have to do something to extend the shelf life, if it's possible, and also get it out of the fridges.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Loretta Naquacha]

So I took everything off the shelves literally, a few months ago while I started working on fundraising to try and figure out a way to have it formulated.

[Guy Raz]

So you haven't been able to figure this out yet? You're still at this point where you're trying to figure out how to make it shelf stable or how to make it last longer, right?

[Loretta Naquacha]

Yeah. And also get out of plastic bottles. It doesn't align with what I'm trying to give people. This helpful, healthful drink.

[Guy Raz]

I love this. I love this. Okay, so. And are those basically your questions, like, how do I figure this out, or do you have an additional question?

[Loretta Naquacha]

Well, my question is how the bloody hell do I fundraise when it's tough to. You know, I've applied for so many grants, pitching events, all of that stuff. But how do you fundraise effectively when you're just doing everything yourself?

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. And can you give us a rough estimate of how much you've put in already? Like several thousand dollars?

[Loretta Naquacha]

25,000.

[Guy Raz]

Right. Okay. So, I mean, that's not an inconsiderable amount of money, and obviously you've got something worth pursuing. But here's where you have a massive competitive advantage versus every micro brand out there in all categories. You are an actor. You have a background in acting. You have incredible charisma. You are just a very. There's an infectious quality to your personality. And to me, it feels like you can really use those qualities to build this brand up slowly and methodically. One simple idea I thought for funding is to try crowdfunding. I just tried it.

[Loretta Naquacha]

I just launched it. I fund women. I just launched it. Kickstarter failed terribly because I didn't have instruction as to what to do once I set that.

[Guy Raz]

But then try it again or try a different one. But you're trying one, because everything you've said here is so interesting. It makes so much sense. It's the story, it's the product, it's what it's done for you. I mean, this really helped you in your pregnancy. What a great way to start marketing or telling a story around a product. And so that's where I think you have an opportunity to start to raise a little bit of cash and to see if you can maybe raise another 20, 25 grand and find hopefully, other people who can help you kind of begin to take this to the next level.

[Loretta Naquacha]

And do you trust. I mean, Lara, I know you were also doing this by yourself. So how. How do you trust that you're even doing what you're supposed to be doing? And not wasting time on things that you're not supposed to be doing because you don't have the other eyes and ears on you or working with you to say, listen, no, that's no good. Let's try this instead, like right now. This is a great group for me. This is great education, but I don't have that every day. So how do you do that?

[Lara Marekin]

I really led with optimism and I was really passionate as you are. And that passion and optimism is future and forward thinking is really what it's about. I actually just got a degree in that in positive psychology. Cause I'm so curious about your second life and career.

[NerdWallet]

We haven't even talked about it.

[Lara Marekin]

I know, I know because I'm just so interested in what about the human condition and what compels us as human beings. And I think entrepreneurs are very forward and future thinking people. And so to Guy's point about you, you've got it. I faced those same peaks and those same valleys that you're going through right now, which is, why am I gonna do this? I mean, at the time I had my idea, everybody thought I was completely out of my mind. I was dealing with an oversaturated category, which it still is today. Yet there was still room for something new and different. So there is always a way, right? If there's a will, there's a way, and you've got it going on.

[Guy Raz]

And there's so many ways to really push this out. You know, cold and flu season, just a sipping beverage, anti inflammatory. I mean, there's. As we speak today, the New York Times has an article about anti inflammatory foods. And I believe Ginger is right on the front of that article.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Yeah, of course it is. And even for like, you know, for. At one point I was talking to someone about trying to maybe get into the hospital, you know, the, the shops in hospitals because of cancer patients. My mother died in 2006 from stomach cancer. And watching the effects of chemotherapy and nausea is a huge side effect of it.

[Guy Raz]

Huge.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Right? And it just, it depletes your energy. It just, it kills you, literally. Right. And I just thought, my God, if I had, if this had come across my path, my, my brain when my mother was still alive, this would have helped her enormously. Yes, it won't cure cancer, but it would help those after effects. I can't scream it loud enough from any mountaintop. The fact that I drink this every day, literally the minute it touches my mouth, I'm like, oh, every day.

[Guy Raz]

Every day it just like chills you. Yeah, I think It's a great idea. One of the ways to do it is you start with who you know. You start with literally your closest friends and you just ask them, can you put in 500 bucks? Can you put in a thousand bucks? You go to, you know, if there's a community group that you're in, if there's parents at school and you just, you have to put yourself out there, say, no big deal. If you, you know, it's a lot, it's a big ask. But I'm trying to raise money and you'll have equity, you'll have a stake in this thing and, and I really believe in it. And I'm, I'm trying to raise about 20, 25 grand to go, go, go to the next phase of it.

[Loretta Naquacha]

It's that discomfort of asking people for money. Like I'll ask a stranger if I have to, but with my, my friend group and whatever, you know, I'm the one that kind of helps with advice and you know, and sort of wisdom, etc, etc. Thanks to my mommy. I very rarely ask for help in that sense. Like I. To ask you for money, I'm the one that will lend you the money. So how do I. I was just thinking while you're talking, do I just pretend I'm a different character? And to ask them for money, that makes me even thinking of. I'm stuttering.

[Guy Raz]

Lara, let's put on your positive psychology degree here. Yes, yes, please. Asking is hard. Asking is very hard for a lot of people. It's very hard. It's hard for me. I'll be honest with you. But I do think that if there's one thing I've seen in almost 700 episodes, how I built this is that virtually every entrepreneur on the show has figured out how to get over that and how to ask Lara.

[Lara Marekin]

It's so true. It's just, it's creating a new habit. I mean, you're asking for feedback right now. You've already taken a huge step. You're on this program, you've already asked like you have it in you to do it, right? And you just have to just little steps, one thing at a time, right? You're not gonna get to the top of the mountain tomorrow, but one little ask at a time. Everybody has their own way of asking, right? Like, I agree, I don't like asking either, but I like it to be like a natural fit, right? Like, I like to connect with people because it just like we have a similar thing and I did that with the stores when I got in the stores. I was like, I'm not going to knock down the doors of people that don't believe in me, but I'm going to go where the energy is flowing. Right. The people that believe in me and people like that. So. So that's what I would do. I mean, if you don't ask, you never know.

[Loretta Naquacha]

I know. And if you don't ask, you don't get. Oh, I have all those. Okay.

[Guy Raz]

All right. You got this. You got this. Loretta's British ginger tea. Look for it. Look for it in your stores one day. Loretta, congrats. Good luck. We're cheering you on.

[Loretta Naquacha]

Thank you, thank you. Thank you.

[Lara Marekin]

So great to meet you.

[Loretta Naquacha]

You too.

[Guy Raz]

So, Lara, we are at the end of another episode of Adviceline, and it's so cool to hear. One of my favorite things, and I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't say it was one of my favorite things is when people call in or people stop me at, you know, at airports or whatever, and they're like, I listen to this show every day, building my business. It's so heartening because that's why we do it. That's why we brought you on all those years ago. We do it for that reason, to give people the energy to keep going when it's hard.

[Lara Marekin]

Yeah. I think we all need inspiration. I'm still inspired by this show. I'm an entrepreneur, and I listen to these episodes, and every time I learn something, I learn it. I love learning new things and understanding how there's a lot of different ways to get there.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. And I should mention, you are embarking on a new chapter in your life. I mean, you. You built and scaled a successful company and brand. You've been an investor and a mentor. I know you were doing that for a long time. Still do a lot of that. But you on the side, went off and did, like, a graduate degree in psychology, right?

[Lara Marekin]

I did. It was typical of me on a whim, you know, just like Lara. But I didn't plan it. And I had my undergrad in psych and I was a social worker many years ago. And then I got into this program, and then I started dissecting. How did I get to where I was as an entrepreneur? Using grit and resilience, perseverance, optimism, all of that stuff. And I just realized, like, this is where I really want to put my energy and how I want to help people using those, you know, these core concepts.

[Guy Raz]

It's so cool. Congrats. And so tell me a little bit about how you're thinking about doing that.

[Lara Marekin]

Well, it's early stages, guy. But one of the ways is really coaching people. I think that I've learned, I've done a lot of that myself, and it really helps me. And when you, you know, coaching is about leading with curiosity and really asking people those questions. I mean, you're very good at that on your show. You're curious. You ask people really crucial questions that get them to think. And so I'm starting an organization with a cohort member of mine and we're going to do educational pieces and coaching and just make it really fun and approachable as entrepreneurs. You know, we, it's not just the business prowess, it's the psychology behind it. How do you get up every day? You know, Loretta, like, how do you keep going when you're faced with an obstacle? What do you do? How do you get the inspiration? How do you reach out when you don't feel like you want to reach out?

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Lara Marekin]

You know, I think we all need that support.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Thank you so much for coming onto the advice line.

[Lara Marekin]

Thanks for having me. Such a pleasure.

[Guy Raz]

That's Lara Marekin, founder of Larabar and more recently co founder of Anther, a coaching service for entrepreneurs. By the way, if you haven't heard Lara's original How I Built this episode, you've got to go back and check it out. You can find a link to it in the podcast description. So just scroll down, check it out. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.

[Lara Marekin]

Well, the trademarking attorney called me at the 11th hour and we were getting ready to launch. It was the year 2002 summer and she said, I think you're gonna need to change the name. And I just thought, you're joking, right? I've left working at Whole Foods and we're supposed to be launching, but we don't launch and everybody's back because nothing's happening.

[Guy Raz]

Thank you so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to sign up for my newsletter. You can sign up for that for [e-mail] and every week we put in tons of insights from entrepreneurs, my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. If you are working on a business and you would like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions that you'd like help with, and hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo@hibtid,.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there. And we'll put all this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella and our audio engineer was Neil Rauch. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Elaine Coates, Carla estevez, Neva Grant, J.C. howard, Chris Masini, Devin Schwartz, Katherine Cipher, and Kerry Thompson. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built this. If you like How I Built this, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[NerdWallet]

Hello ladies and germs, boys and girls. The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast. After last year, he's learned a thing or two about hosting, and he's ready to rant against Christmas cheer and roast his celebrity guests like chestnuts on an open fire. You can listen with the whole family as guest stars like Jon Hamm, Brittney Broski and Danny DeVito try to persuade the mean old Grinch that there's a lot to love about the insufferable holiday season. But that's not all. Somebody stole all the children of Whoville's letters to Santa and everybody thinks the Grinch is responsible. It's a real Whoville who done it. Can Cindy Lou and Max help clear the Grinch's name? Grab your hot cocoa and cozy slippers to find out. Follow Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Unlock weekly Christmas mystery bonus content and listen to every episode ad free by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery App, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.