Advice Line with Marcia Kilgore of Beauty Pie

Summary

Summary of "Advice Line with Marcia Kilgore of Beauty Pie"
How I Built This with Guy Raz
Release Date: June 19, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of How I Built This with Guy Raz, host Guy Raz welcomes back Marcia Kilgore, a serial entrepreneur renowned for founding successful brands such as Beauty Pie, Bliss, Soap, and Fit Flop. This episode features an "Advice Line" segment where Marcia provides insights and guidance to fellow entrepreneurs facing various business challenges.

2. Guest Introduction: Marcia Kilgore and Beauty Pie

Marcia Kilgore shares her journey from starting small by giving facials in a tiny New York City room to building Bliss, which transformed the spa and beauty industry. She then expanded her entrepreneurial ventures, culminating in the creation of Beauty Pie, a brand dedicated to offering luxury beauty products at transparent and affordable prices.

3. Discussion on Warehouse Pricing

One of the focal points of the conversation is Beauty Pie's innovative pricing strategy known as warehouse pricing. Marcia explains how this model disrupts the traditional beauty industry's multi-layered distribution system, which often results in exorbitant markups.

• Marcia Kilgore (04:08):
  "The mainstream beauty industry has always had a really multi-layer distribution system... resulting in a markup of 1,200% at minimum on that product. So something that is manufactured for $5 would retail for $60 at minimum."

By eliminating intermediaries such as distributors and retailers, Beauty Pie ensures that consumers receive high-quality products at prices that closely reflect their manufacturing costs. This approach not only makes luxury products more accessible but also often results in better quality offerings.

• Marcia Kilgore (05:33):
  "Because most of the high-end luxury beauty brands are made in Switzerland or in Japan, some in France. And you are offering the same quality, essentially, but at much lower prices."

4. Building a Brand in 2025

Marcia and Guy delve into the challenges of building a brand in 2025. The landscape has become increasingly competitive, with the internet making it easy to launch products but equally difficult to gain visibility.

• Marcia Kilgore (08:13):
  "There is more competition than ever... Getting visibility and achieving scale is incredibly hard. You have to be constantly creative and really original."

They discuss the importance of leveraging AI tools for creativity, understanding the necessity of original branding, and the relentless effort required to stand out in a saturated market.

5. Listener Call #1: Sodiia’s Ice Cream

Caller: Lydia Welsh
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Business: Co-founder of Sodiia’s Ice Cream, specializing in ice cream and paletas inspired by Mexican Jalisco.

Challenge:
Lydia seeks advice on whether to focus on expanding her brick-and-mortar stores or to invest more in wholesale distribution. Currently, her revenue splits 60% from stores and 40% from wholesale, with similar profit margins in both sectors.

Advice from Marcia Kilgore and Victor Garcia:
They recommend prioritizing wholesale for scalability while maintaining flagship stores to enhance brand presence and serve as marketing hubs.

• Victor Garcia (14:10):
  "Retail is really great for marketing your brand... events in stores can generate free promotion through social media."

6. Listener Call #2: Clear Story Skincare

Caller: Jack Boland
Location: Seattle, Washington
Business: Founder of Clear Story Skincare, offering small-batch botanical skincare products.

Challenge:
Jack is struggling with the fear of failure and rejection, which is hindering his ability to effectively pitch and market his products.

Advice from Marcia Kilgore and Victor Garcia:
Victor emphasizes that fear of failure is universal and advises embracing iterative testing using AI tools and meta advertising to gain confidence through small-scale experiments.

• Victor Garcia (24:41):
  "Everybody has fear of failure... you just kind of get used to it after you fail a couple of times. It's almost like you have to let that go."

He suggests refining the brand name, optimizing the online advertising strategy, and iterating based on feedback to build confidence and reduce the fear associated with rejection.

7. Listener Call #3: Wampy Bags

Caller: Jack Boland
Location: San Francisco, California
Business: Founder of Wampy Bags, creating customized bike frame bags and accessories.

Challenge:
Jack is grappling with maintaining customer momentum during the customization process. The requirement for a special postcard to design a personalized bag leads to drop-offs in the purchasing journey.

Advice from Marcia Kilgore and Victor Garcia:
They recommend simplifying the customization process to reduce decision paralysis. This includes offering preset options, emphasizing popular choices, and implementing follow-up communications to keep customers engaged.

• Victor Garcia (39:48):
  "Start with something that's one click... make it easier for them. People are too often overwhelmed by too many choices."

Additionally, Victor advises implementing regular email follow-ups to maintain engagement and encourage completion of the purchase process.

8. Marcia’s Advice to Her Younger Self

Towards the end of the episode, Marcia reflects on her entrepreneurial journey and offers advice she would give to her younger self when she was just starting out.

• Marcia Kilgore (43:57):
  "Take small risks and learn without betting the farm... leveraging immediate feedback from the internet is a real gift to new entrepreneurs today."

She underscores the importance of hands-on experience, iterative learning, and embracing small risks to build resilient and adaptable businesses.

9. Conclusion

The episode concludes with Marcia expressing gratitude for assisting fellow entrepreneurs while managing her own health challenges. Guy Raz encourages listeners to engage with the podcast by submitting their business questions and highlights the value of sharing and learning from entrepreneurial experiences.

• Victor Garcia (44:49):
  "Stay alive, guy. No matter what core comes."

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Notable Quotes:

• Victor Garcia (25:38):
  "Everybody has fear of failure. Everybody. So welcome to the club."

• Marcia Kilgore (08:13):
  "Getting visibility and achieving scale is incredibly hard. You have to be constantly creative and really original."

• Victor Garcia (24:41):
  "Everybody has fear of failure... you just kind of get used to it after you fail a couple of times."

• Victor Garcia (39:48):
  "Start with something that's one click... make it easier for them. People are too often overwhelmed by too many choices."

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Key Takeaways:

• Transparency in Pricing: Eliminating unnecessary markups can make luxury products more accessible without compromising quality.

• Brand Building Challenges: In a saturated digital market, originality and constant creativity are paramount for gaining visibility and standing out.

• Overcoming Entrepreneurial Fears: Embracing failure as a learning tool and iterating based on feedback can help mitigate fears of rejection.

• Customer Engagement: Simplifying the purchasing process and maintaining engagement through strategic follow-ups can reduce drop-offs and enhance customer loyalty.

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For Further Listening:

To delve deeper into Marcia Kilgore’s entrepreneurial journey and gain more insights, listeners are encouraged to revisit her original How I Built This episode, available in the podcast description.

Transcript

[Guy Raz]

Wondery subscribers can listen to How I Built this early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Thank you to our sponsor, American Express. Being a business owner means you are in control of your destiny and you get to be your own boss. With Amex Business Platinum, you can get a flexible spending limit that adapts with your business. Not all purchases will be approved. Plus you can earn 1.5 times Membership Rewards points on select business purchases. Points cap applies. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] AmExBusiness so here's something pretty cool to think about. Have you ever been lying in bed at night at an Airbnb, maybe scrolling through your phone when you realize, wait a minute, could I do this too? That was the question Giovanni asked about his house in Florence, Italy. And guess what? I got to stay in that magical palazzo for a few nights because it was on Airbnb. Find out how much your place is [e-mail] host can AI predict the source of the next global pandemic? Or at least help convince a Hollywood studio to buy a new screenplay from Scott Z. Burns, the writer of Contagion, with special guest appearances from director Steven Soderbergh, Laurence Fishburne and Jennifer Ely? Don't Miss what Could Go Wrong, a deeply thoughtful, occasionally frightening and often hilarious Audible original podcast that delves head and heart first into today's burning can humankind and AI actually work hand in hand? Follow Scott and an ever expanding cast of AI generated partners including Lexter, an extraordinarily gifted, sharp tongued AI as they co write and pitch Hollywood execs the Contagion sequel. Hear what Could Go Wrong now on audible. Go to audible.com whatcouldgo wrong the next act begins with a prompt hello and welcome to the advice line on How I built this Lab.

[Marcia Kilgore]

I'm Guy Raz.

[Guy Raz]

This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-4331. Send us a 1 minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice [e-mail] and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for [e-mail] and we'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Joining me this week is serial entrepreneur Marcia Kilgore, founder of Beauty Pie. Marcia, welcome back to the show.

[Victor Garcia]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.

[Marcia Kilgore]

We're excited to have you. So you were first on the show back in 2018. You told us about the origin story of Bliss, which was the spa brand that really kind of changed the beauty landscape. And then of course you went on to build all of these different brands afterwards like Soap and Glory and Fit Flop and then be Beauty Pie. It's just so awesome to have you back. And we will put a link to your original interview in the episode description and also anybody listening can easily find that by searching How I Built this. And Marcia Kilgore, lots of great stories and insights. Marcia, I know that today you are continuing to grow Beauty Pie and pushing to kind of give consumers access to luxury beauty products at a more transparent pricing. And I know recently you've been focused on educating consumers about something called warehouse pricing. So can you tell us a little bit more about what that is?

[Victor Garcia]

Well, there are different definitions for it. In the US versus the uk the mainstream beauty industry has always had a really multi layer distribution system where it would go from the mind of a founder to a manufacturer. The manufacturer would then ship it to a warehouse, the warehouse would ship it to a distributor, the distributor would then ship it to a retailer. And in all of these different layers of distribution, you would end up with a markup of 1,200% at minimum on that product. So something that is manufactured for $5 would retail for 60 at minimum, because the retailer themselves are taking at least half of that. And especially if you're a new brand in the cosmetics business, it can be really tough because they will demand higher percentages of that pie because they have the shelf space and you don't really have much negotiating leverage. And I'd been in the beauty industry for quite a long time and realized that for me it was a little depressing that customers would have to spend so much to get something that actually didn't have the value that they thought it had. And so I decided to start PewDiePie just for that reason so that people could get the good stuff when it landed in the warehouse with enough of a Markup to cover that, which we call our warehouse pricing or lab to warehouse pricing and not any other markup that happens after it leaves that warehouse and ends up in the hands of a distributor or a retailer. So that's our definition of warehouse pricing.

[Guy Raz]

Right.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Because most of the high end luxury beauty brands are made in Switzerland or in Japan, some in France. And you are offering the same quality, essentially, but at much lower prices.

[Victor Garcia]

Very often even a better quality, but at much lower prices. We can manufacture from scratch, we can kind of dream, because we're not really worried about all that extra added cost that a product will engender once it leaves the warehouse and goes to a retailer. So we negotiate hard with our manufacturers, but it stops at about three times the manufactured cost and it doesn't go farther than that. Whereas most beauty products go to 10 or 12 or sometimes 20.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Victor Garcia]

Kind of the more luxurious the brand, the crazier the prices. And you'll see creams out there selling for $3,000 for a 50 milliliter jar of cream, which is just insanity. There's nothing in them. But if it makes you feel better about yourself that you can buy something really expensive, I guess there's, you know, there's a little bit of that.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Marcia Kilgore]

All right, Marcia, before we get to today's callers, I want to ask a little bit more about, about your story and kind of how it relates to building a company today. Because in your original episode, you know, you told us about how you started by giving facials in this tiny room in New York City and how that kind of led to and taught you what, what customers value and that helps you build bliss into this amazing brand. Do you think that's necessary today for founders to have that direct kind of customer service or hands on experience to succeed in beauty?

[Victor Garcia]

It's a great question. I think Jim Collins would always say that you want to focus on what you're good at and then you want to look at those tangential things to try and do something different. So it is much easier to start a business in an area that you've got expertise because you can solve your problems very often yourself and you've got that deep and rich insight into whatever that problem is. However, if you just go and do what everybody else is doing, you're not going to have anything new and you're not going to have any kind of leg up in the market with all the other people who are doing exactly that. So it's really important, I think, one, to have expertise in the area that you are trying to build, but then also to look sideways and see what people are doing. In other words, areas of business that might dovetail into yours and create something that's really fresh and new.

[Marcia Kilgore]

What do you think? I mean, you've built so many brands, and building a brand is really hard and arguably harder in some ways today than ever, you know, than it's been in recent years. What do you think are some of the biggest challenges of trying to build a brand in 2025?

[Victor Garcia]

In 2025, there is more competition than ever. And I think that people also look at the Internet and think it's super easy to put your product out there on the Internet and spend money advertising it, and people will flock to you. I think what they don't necessarily realize is, number one, how hard it is to get visibility and any kind of scale. Number two, how many iterations you might have to go through before you get something that resonates with a customer. Number three, how expensive that can be depending on which market you're in and which niche you're in. Because there are a lot of people thinking exactly like you're thinking. And I think that everything has moved towards digital in such a fast way. Covid did that for us, right? It was this huge digital rush. So it used to be quite easy to throw a website up, and it still is. But getting people to come to that website is the hardest thing. So I think there's always, always on the part of a founder a little bit of ownership bias where because they think it's great that other people will naturally show up. And maybe they don't realize how hard it is to get attention in such a saturated world of trying to get eyeballs. You have to do a lot more, be constantly creative. And there's a lot of help out there now with AI which can help you be more creative if you're not necessarily creative, but everybody's got a lot of the same tools. So you have to work smarter, you have to work faster, you have to work harder, but you have to really be original.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Yeah, Marcia, let's go ahead and take. Take some calls. Let's bring in our first caller. Hello, welcome to the advice line. You are on with Marcia Kilgore. Please tell us your name and where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business guy.

[Lydia Welsh]

Marcia. What an honor it is to be here. Very excited. My name is Victor Garcia. I am calling from the very hot city of Fort Worth, Texas, co founder of Soldia's Ice Cream. We specialize in Making ice cream and paletas with the flavors and preparation styles of my hometown, Mexica Can Jalisco. And we are on a mission of making these treats as popular and accessible as tacos are in the US today.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Awesome. So tell us a little bit about paletas or popsicles, basically. Right?

[Lydia Welsh]

Yeah.

[Marcia Kilgore]

And ice cream. So tell us a little bit about what. Yeah, what about what you sell?

[Lydia Welsh]

So the two things that really helps us stand out, number one, as I mentioned, the flavors, the ingredients. So we've got things like mango uchamoy or like a rice cinnamon. We have a tequila ice cream, Tequila petas mamey, the flavors of Mexico. Right. And our churn process is very slow. It takes 25, 35 minutes to make a batch. And really that just helps the natural flavors of the product get injected into what the ice cream is or what the paleta is. A lot of American ice cream or a lot of ice cream in general. Right. It gets injected with air and blasted frozen six, seven minutes. So one of the big things I tell people, just you can have a pint of regular ice cream and you can have a pint of Sol ds and you will be able to feel the difference. The Sol DS is going to be a lot heavier because it's got a lot less air. So that's kind of a little bit about us and what we do.

[Marcia Kilgore]

And how did you get into the ice cream business?

[Lydia Welsh]

The tiny town that I mentioned, Mexican Jalisco, is nicknamed La Cuna de La de, which just briefly translates to the birthplace of ice cream and paletas. And so that's kind of where everything came from. We immigrated to the US didn't quite find the same flavors of home, and that's kind of what encouraged the business to start.

[Marcia Kilgore]

And so you've got a brick and mortar shop or you've got more than one shop?

[Lydia Welsh]

We got three brick and mortar shops in Dallas Fort Worth. Yeah.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Amazing. Congrats.

[Guy Raz]

And how.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Tell me a little bit about how the business is doing.

[Lydia Welsh]

The business has been growing steadily, 35 to 40% a year. Everything's been. Been going well so far.

[Marcia Kilgore]

All right, so what's your question for us?

[Lydia Welsh]

Yes. So we have brick and mortar side of the business, and then we have a retail side of the business. We've been trying to tackle both. The nagging question is, is that too much? At our stage. Right. Right now, three stores, 1.5 million in revenue. Does it make sense to continue trying to go after both? Should we focus on one or the other?

[Marcia Kilgore]

So, so do you focus on Selling your products in retail or do you focus on brick and mortar? Okay, Marcia, let me bring you in. He's got a growing business, a brick and mortar business with ambitions, I think, right to grow. But you've got these products that you could sell in stores. Sam's Clubs and maybe Costco's and other places.

[Guy Raz]

What should he do?

[Marcia Kilgore]

What should he focus on?

[Victor Garcia]

Victor, what a dream to be selling ice cream. Yes, I think many of us would want to have a business like yours. It sounds really exciting. It sounds like you have a really great market niche also. And so congratulations, building it so far. And it sounds like you really have a lot of success and more to come. I'm going to ask a couple of questions. I'm just going to fire them away at you. Can you tell me right now how the revenue is split between your stores and your wholesale?

[Lydia Welsh]

Right now it's 60% stores, 40% wholesale.

[Victor Garcia]

And in terms of margin on stores versus margin on wholesale, once you take the stores and the operations into account, it's about 17%.

[Lydia Welsh]

The net margins on the stores. Net margins on wholesale is slightly higher, hovering at around 20.

[Victor Garcia]

Okay, so relatively the same, but easier to scale. Obviously your wholesale, isn't it? Retail is tough, as you may not know yet.

[Lydia Welsh]

I know.

[Victor Garcia]

Yet.

[Lydia Welsh]

I know, Trust me.

[Victor Garcia]

You know, you've got weather, you know, a big football game comes on, like no one leaves their house. You know, you're sort of at the mercy of a lot of different elements. However, retail is really great for marketing for your brand. So it's nice to be able to have those flagship retail locations where people can come and experience it and test product, et cetera, et cetera. How are you guys doing on social media? Are you getting a lot of information out to potential clients or doing a lot of promotion via organic social media or. Not yet.

[Lydia Welsh]

That's the only way that we advertise. It's really just social media word of mouth, like you mentioned earlier. Is the product good enough to live without any advertising? And I immediately thought, well, we sometimes don't post for a month and things continue to go well.

[Victor Garcia]

But yeah, okay, and can you tell me what percentage of your product is frozen or needs to be kept cold when shipped versus not because you have other things. Right. You have other products that it's not just ice cream and palettes.

[Lydia Welsh]

Correct, Correct. That's like, those are our hero products, but we also make a variety of other Mexican sweets and treats. Churros, aguas, frescas, dulces, enchiladas, like spicy Gummies on the storefronts, it's probably about 70% is frozen, 30% is not frozen. On the retail side, we just have two products in stores which is going to be the paletas and the spicy gummies. And right now it's really about half is paletas, half is spicy gummies.

[Victor Garcia]

I thought spicy gummies might be popular. As soon as you said it, I just thought, you know what, there's something about spicy gummies. Like a jalapeno or some kind of like hot pepper gummies.

[Lydia Welsh]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Victor Garcia]

I can see every teenage boy. If you had the one that's so crazy that it burns your mouth, do you know every teenage boy would be buying those? Yes, I know because I have teenage boys.

[Lydia Welsh]

The extreme version. Absolutely.

[Victor Garcia]

Yeah, yeah. You got to have that. Obviously in your distribution and your wholesale. You're going to want to try and get more of those non frozen products in because it's just so much cheaper to not have to ship something in refrigerated trucks and also really build a couple of hero products like those spicy gummies. If that's like something you're really known for that you can then kind of branch off of and develop more products like the spicy gummy or it's the spicy chewy or the spicy whatever, whatever. But you want to have one big hero products. And of course you'll have your ice cream. Right. And you'll have your palettes, but something is not frozen. It'll be a lot easier to not worry about that, especially in heat waves, et cetera, et cetera. I'm sure it can get kind of crazy when you talk about retail stores. I don't think you need 20 of them. I think you need a couple of really good ones strategically located where there is a line out the door. Nothing is better for your business than a line out the door of people waiting for ice cream. Right, right. And then you. Where I would spend money, instead of doing two stores or four stores, you now have three. So instead of doing six, hire some really great brand designer who knows how to bring that all together for you. So that when you have a store it is irresistible. And people cannot not take a photograph and post it on social media. You're going to have them with their ice creams, them with their paletas, them with their spicy gummies, whatever it is. And you're going to run events in those stores like the spicy gummy eating contest. Right. And you're going to invite people to come and. Right. Or you're going to invite people you're trying out a new flavor, you put it out, everybody come down or giving out, you know, little cups of this new flavor. Come down and see what it's like. And they'll come in, they're going to take a picture of themselves in the store. They're going to come in to try the new flavor. They're going to post about it, talk about it on social media. Everything will be free for you for a very long time. If you can have events around the products that you're launching or your hero products and make that store look so cool.

[Lydia Welsh]

Yeah, okay.

[Victor Garcia]

But you get a line down the street, then you take photos of the lines down the street from your shop, and then everybody's like, oh, my God, why is everybody lining up with that? It's really quite easy with what you've got. We can do it if you do the branding right around it. And then you just keep coming up with ideas around how to get people to come in and be part of your brand.

[Marcia Kilgore]

It's great advice. Victor Garcia. The brand is called Soldias. Good luck. Thanks for calling in.

[Lydia Welsh]

Thank you so much, Guy. Marcia.

[Marcia Kilgore]

All right. Thank you.

[Victor Garcia]

Take care, Guy. I talk too much. I'm sorry.

[Marcia Kilgore]

No, it's great. You are carrying the day as I'm battling a cold and a pretty severe migraine. Oh, my gosh. You are helping to carry the advice line today, so I appreciate that.

[Victor Garcia]

Anytime.

[Marcia Kilgore]

We're going to take a quick break.

[Guy Raz]

But when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz. Stick around. You're listening to the advice line on how I built this lab. My favorite vacations have been to towns and cities where I could also just enjoy living like a local, shopping in the markets, cooking in my own kitchen, or spending a lazy afternoon looking out the window and reading a book. And all of this has been possible because I usually stay at Airbnbs. Maybe you're planning a trip for a long weekend or maybe you want to book a stay somewhere warm while you're away. You could Airbnb your home and make some extra money toward the trip. Whether you could use a little extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun, your home or spare room might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host this episode of How I Built this is brought to you by Square. Recently, I collaborated with Square on a new series called the Way Up. In the Way Up, I sit down with six local businesses, the ones that make a neighborhood and in each interview, we chart an entrepreneur's journey, the hurdles and the highs, and how Square played a part in helping the business grow. To hear all of these inspiring stories, visit square.com go built that's sq U-A-R-E.com go built and check out the story of Charles Gabriel, the award winning chef behind the legendary Charles Pan Fried Chicken in Harlem. And how he went from a childhood in rural North Carolina to culinary stardom in New York City and along the way turning his talent into a booming business. Hear the journeys of six rising American businesses. Visit square.com go bilt to learn more. That's s q u a r e.com go built learn how square can help your business on the way up. One of the hardest parts about B2B marketing is reaching the right audience. So when you want to reach the right professionals LinkedIn Ads LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue, all the professionals you need to reach in one place. Stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign so you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com builtthis that's LinkedIn.com builtthis Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn AD welcome back to the advice.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and my guest today is Marcia Kilgore. She's the founder of many successful brands including Bliss Soap and Glory Fit Flop and Pewdiepie. And we are taking your calls. And let's bring in our next caller.

[Jack Boland]

Hi Guy. Hi Marcia. My name is Lydia Welsh. I'm calling from Seattle, Washington and I'm the founder of Clear Story Skincare. We make small batch botanical skin care products using science backed ingredients for a simple, effective daily routine.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Awesome. Welcome to the show lady. How did you get into to skincare? Tell me a little bit about how you started the business.

[Jack Boland]

Yeah, I majored in biology. Then I worked in disease research for a few years after college and I've always been interested in skincare but somehow it didn't hit me that skincare is actually all about chemistry and biology until 2020. Had some free time and I started reading research papers about different ingredients and it all just sort of came together in my mind. So I started tinkering with different ingredients and making My own formulas, sharing them with family and friends. And then I launched my business in 2021.

[Marcia Kilgore]

And tell us a little bit about what you're. Yeah, I mean, how it's going so far.

[Jack Boland]

It's been an interesting and slow journey. I've been around for, you know, four years, but the first two years of that I was working full time, and then the following two years I had two kids. So I've had my hands full. I've basically, I started with a few simple products and just did a lot of, like, farmers markets and things on the weekend and shipping orders in the evenings. And right now we have a gentle cleanser, a hydrating mist, and a couple of facial oils. And we have, like a small customer base, but the people who have used our products really love them.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Tell us a little bit about what you are, where you're selling is all direct to consumer online on your website now.

[Jack Boland]

Yeah, that's right. So everything's direct to consumer.

[Marcia Kilgore]

And tell us what your question is or what your challenge is.

[Jack Boland]

So I've spent this time refining my product line and I feel like I'm finally ready to grow my business, but I find myself holding back from pitching and marketing because I'm afraid to fail. And so my question is, how do I overcome my fear of rejection and gain the confidence to put myself out there?

[Marcia Kilgore]

All right, Marcia, I want to bring you in with some answers, hopefully.

[Victor Garcia]

Oh, Lydia. Okay. I'm going to tell you something that might really shock you. Everybody has fear of failure. Everybody. So welcome to the club. Never goes away like anything else, you just kind of get used to it after you fail a couple of times. So you kind of have to let that go. It's almost like people who tell me, oh, I can't do this because I'm a perfectionist, so I just can't decide. And it's just a cop out. No offense, but it's a cop out to say you have fear of failure or you're a perfectionist because it just gives you an excuse to not go do what you have to do to get this done. And also not to face the things that aren't working openly, honestly, and immediately and move on them. Right. It's like so easy to just go, oh, I'm too scared to fail, so I'm just not going to do anything. You know what's going to happen. You're going to fail. So anything. If you want to just, just say you have a fear of failure and let it give you paralysis because it's a sure thing. Can I ask you a couple of questions?

[Jack Boland]

Go ahead.

[Victor Garcia]

Number one, how did you get the trademark for Clear Story? Do you have it trademarked?

[Jack Boland]

I do, yeah.

[Victor Garcia]

Okay. And how do you spell it?

[Jack Boland]

C L E, R Story.

[Victor Garcia]

Huh. If you say your brand is called Clerestory, you're now reaching a subset of people who don't know how to spell the word clear.

[Jack Boland]

That's true. Yeah.

[Victor Garcia]

You might want to reconsider what you call it.

[Jack Boland]

Okay.

[Victor Garcia]

Unless you have 50,000 units of product sitting in your warehouse.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Yeah, interesting idea.

[Victor Garcia]

Okay. And there's an infinite number of brand names that you can have, but I would never have a name myself that if people spell the word properly, it doesn't come up. Got it. So you're going to say, oh, my brand is called Clear Story. And then you have to say, but not with an A. Yeah, right. That's already a handicap right there. So you want to just try and fix that. Do you run any ads?

[Jack Boland]

I actually don't.

[Victor Garcia]

Okay. So I want you to spend a week when your children are not right there with you, learning AI and learning how the Meta ad library works. You can even go on ChatGPT and say, give me a seven day training program so that I understand how meta works for advertising. And you can do that. This is the best way to figure out if your proposition is going to resonate with a large number of people. Although you're not going to pay for a large number of people. So in the second best business book of all time, second only to How I Built this by Guy Raz, Jim Collins would say you fire a bullet before you fire a cannonball, which means you're going to test small before you do anything big. So you're going to make sure that people actually click on your ad with your picture of your product with its, its description and its brand and its packaging. And they actually click on it before you go manufacture a whole bunch of them. I'm gonna assume you're doing small batches at the moment.

[Jack Boland]

Yes.

[Victor Garcia]

Correct.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Yeah.

[Victor Garcia]

Okay, so you're not sitting on like tens of thousands of anything.

[Jack Boland]

I'm not.

[Victor Garcia]

That's really good. So, number one, I would go revisit the brand name. Number two, I would mock up using artificial intelligence, whole bunch of different versions of the packaging of the name, the description of what the products do, and then learn how to do meta advertising and test. Because you will see when you get something that people are interested in, they're going to click on it. And you can count those clicks for very little money before you do anything really big and make any really big decisions and that will be a really nice way to iterate your way to a product that will resonate with people and that they're going to come looking for before you then go and manufacture a lot of that product. And then you're going to take all of that knowledge and you're going to start just testing a little bit with very inexpensive ads, not putting them in front of millions of people, you put it in front of a thousand. If nobody clicks on it, you don't have something yet. Right. And iterate a few times, spending as little money as possible. Don't listen to your friends or family because they will always be nice and they're going to say it's great. Or they're going to be like, nah, that'll never work. You're going to get the two, the very supportive ones and then the ones who are just like naysayers because they're really risk averse. And that's them, not you. Right. So it's better just to see what happens in the wild when you put something in front of an average human who's in the skincare market and whether or not they click on your thing and come through to your website.

[Jack Boland]

Okay.

[Victor Garcia]

And then you iterate and you iterate and you iterate and you iterate until you have something and you'll build a landing page perhaps for this new version of what you're testing. And so they land on. You'll still see if they click and add it into their basket. But then you'll say, I'm sorry, this thing is sold out. But that's okay because it's a lot better to make 10 people really upset than to be sitting on hundreds of thousands of units of something that's not going to sell. Right.

[Marcia Kilgore]

It's great advice.

[Guy Raz]

Lydia Welsh.

[Marcia Kilgore]

The brand is called Clear Story. Thanks so much for calling in.

[Jack Boland]

Yeah, thank you both.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Thank you.

[Victor Garcia]

Bye.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Yeah, I mean, it is, right? I mean, this is the. You're right. I mean, everybody is afraid of this, right? It doesn't matter who the founder is. Everyone is afraid of failure and rejection. This is a, a common part of the process.

[Victor Garcia]

Yeah. You know, boxers probably get in the ring and are they afraid of like a really hard punch? Yes. But the other punches that just are part of the job, I mean, get used to it because you're gonna fail. We've all failed. Right. We've had disasters and you kind of forget about them. Thank God the human brain is wired to. It's like childbirth. You just don't remember it. Otherwise we would never propagate as a species. But.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Yeah, okay.

[Guy Raz]

Next up after the break, another caller with another business challenge. I'm Guy Raz and we're answering your business questions right here on the advice line on How I Built this lab. How I built this is supported by Ring. With Ring, you can be there from anywhere with doorbells and cameras that help you see more to exciting features that help you know more to the app that lets you connect more, see more at the front door, up high and down low with battery doorbells head to toe video capture it all all day and all night and get smarter alerts that know the difference between a person and a package right in the Ring app. I use Ring to check in on my dog when I'm out of the house or running errands just to make sure everything's okay. It's a awesome because I can see her wherever she's in the house. With Ring, you can check in and be there from anywhere. Some features require a subscription and are available only on select Ring devices. Exclusions apply. Learn [e-mail] what does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers. Rates will rise or fall. Inflation's up or down. Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 41,000 businesses have future proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one Cloud ERP bringing accounting, financial management, inventory and HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. With real time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data. When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next. As a business owner myself, I love the idea of having this much clarity and control. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com built the guide is free to you at netsuite.com built netsuite.com built welcome back.

[Marcia Kilgore]

To the advice line on How I Built this Lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking calls with serial entrepreneur and PewDiePie founder Marcia Kilgore. So, Marcia, ready for our next caller?

[Victor Garcia]

I'm ready.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Let's bring in our final caller. Welcome to the Advice Line, you are on with Marcia Kilgore. Hello, welcome. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

[F]

Hello. Thank you for having me on. My name is Jack Boland.

[Victor Garcia]

Hey, Jack.

[F]

I'm out in San Francisco at the moment, and I'm the founder of Wampy Bags. So we make customers bike bags and accessories that perfectly match your bike and your style. We focus on a style of bag called a frame bag, which basically sits inside the triangle on your bike, using that negative space there. And our ultimate goal is to get people to opt for their bike over their car when they can.

[Marcia Kilgore]

So it's a storage bag that fits in the frame of your bike basically?

[F]

Exactly. Yeah. That's the core product. And then we have a handful of other ones that mount on your handlebars for water bottles or on the front, allow you to put snacks in there.

[Marcia Kilgore]

What fits inside the bag?

[F]

So it's a little dependent on your frame, but it's anything from a water bottle, spare layer snacks. We'll use it for bike packing trips. So they'll throw a tent in there and a sleeping bag or just a couple of beers and a blanket to go head down to the park.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Yeah. How did you come up with this idea?

[F]

I got into using this just for commuting around town, just going to the breweries in town and a more casual thing. So I'm trying to design a bag that is really intended to be more fun and playful and a little bit more accessible than kind of those hardcore bags.

[Marcia Kilgore]

That's awesome. Okay, and how much do the bags sell for, by the way? What's the price?

[F]

It depends on the size of them. So we've got a small one that's good for maybe tools or a snack, and that's about 125. And then a full frame starts at 149.

[Marcia Kilgore]

And these are custom made?

[F]

Exactly. Yep. So basically, customers can take a picture of their bike. They have this little special postcard that we'll send them, and they include that in the photo, and then they upload this to the website. They can design the shape of the bag they want. They select all the features they're interested in, and then we fabricate it. We print the fabric and create this kind of one of a kind bag for them.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Got it. Okay, so what are you trying to solve here? What's your challenge?

[F]

So my question is around sales channels ultimately. So I mentioned that postcard that's used for sizing and fitting the bag. There's a million different Varieties of bikes and sizes and shapes. And so they need that postcard to get it to fit just right. So we mail that to them for free. And in that time, they kind of, you know, lose a little momentum on their excitement for purchasing this bag. And so I'm curious for what are the channels that we can be exploring or focusing on that allow us to get this postcard in your hands when you start your journey and then you're good to go, you can kind of design and purchase that bag.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Got it. Okay. So the problem now is that people start the process, but then they drop off, basically.

[F]

Exactly.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Gotcha. Okay. All right, Marcia. People are coming in. They're starting the process of designing their bags, but it's too clunky and they just drop off. So he's got to solve this.

[Victor Garcia]

Okay, Jack, I'm going to ask some really basic questions even before they even come in to start the process. But first, I'd like to say there's nobody I like better than a product designer. Just the way product designers think is always so incredibly original. So I'm sure. Is this your 20th idea?

[F]

You're like the 50 to 100 range?

[Victor Garcia]

Yeah. My kind of guy. Love a bit of a product designer. I'm going to ask, you said there are other bags on the market for these purposes. Are they also fitting between the same area of the bicycle, or is that your thing?

[F]

So there's kind of a spectrum of them. There's the off the shelf made internationally, one size fits all that doesn't really fit anything, but it's a slightly lower price point. And then there are a couple companies doing this custom, but it's quite bespoke. It involves, you know, a couple weeks of back and forth emails to, like, figure out exactly the size of your frame. And so we kind of land in that middle because this software, it lets us work a little bit more efficiently, manufacture a little bit more efficiently, and land somewhere in between the two of those.

[Victor Garcia]

Okay. So a customer can go out and find at retail a bag similar to your bag, just not customized.

[F]

Yeah. And then that also kind of typically limits them to your browns and your blacks. So one of our big offerings is this can be as colorful, it can be as fun. It can have a picture of your dog on the exterior as well.

[Victor Garcia]

Got it. Okay.

[F]

Yes. So because this kind of unique process where I need to get a bunch of data from them on what their bike looks like and the sizing, it has this back and forth that doesn't allow people to just hop on the Website order something because they saw it and they're excited about it. Yes.

[Victor Garcia]

And so it is almost about. Do you have a series of emails that goes back to them once they've hit a certain stage in the process saying how excited they are. So normally when you're, you know, when you go into a website and it tells you you're at step one of step six. Right. Do you have email follow ups for people who are sort of at step one, but they haven't continued to say, hey, you're almost there, you only have a few steps left, here's where you are.

[F]

We only have one. That's the like you requested the card and then here's the getting started steps type of thing. But I like the idea of two weeks after that just a check in, type of one or more integrated too long.

[Victor Garcia]

Okay, perfect. Perfect. Yeah. So three days later you're going to send them another email and say, hey, did you get your card yet? I mean, maybe they haven't got their card yet, but you still need to be like in their inbox. Right. If they don't want to hear from you, they're going to delete you and that's okay, but you got to be there and you have to keep the momentum going yourself. Don't be too polite. People are getting constantly barraged with emails and if you think, oh, I'm going to be polite, I'm not going to send this for another two weeks, they might have bought a bag by then. Right. From somebody else. So you need to say how excited you are to be making this bag for them and you've sent out the card and as soon as they receive their card, please, you know, scan. Do you have a QR code on that card?

[F]

I do, yeah.

[Victor Garcia]

Okay, so they scan the QR code and then they take the picture and then it lands them somewhere that makes an accept really easy.

[F]

Yes. So it sends them a link and then they can design the bag over that photo.

[Victor Garcia]

And how many choices for designing the bag are there?

[F]

So they can do the shape and then there's a couple toggles for features, you know, various types of zippers, that type of thing. And then the like print for the fabric.

[Victor Garcia]

And do you find that people drop there or just at the beginning?

[F]

Anecdotally, I think that you get a lot of people in that decision paralysis where they want to. I gave them so many tools that they can optimize this thing perfectly and because of that they sit on it for a couple weeks.

[Victor Garcia]

They can't figure it out. Yes, okay, so Dan Ariely, fabulous behavioral science guru, would say that if someone was ordering a pizza, you would start with giving them 10 toppings and let them remove them rather than asking them to add them. So you want to actually start with here's the bag that most people buy. Take them to a page where you got a fully loaded bag and they just have to upload a picture or choose a color. And if they want to remove certain things, they can. But you make them do one thing, don't make them do 10. Right. It shouldn't be that many clicks. Assume they want the very best one and tell them this is the one that everybody else buys. Everybody wants to do what other people are doing because they think it's right and so they will very likely find it easier to just do what everybody else is doing and you need to make it easier for them. And then if they need to upload a photo. Right. Do you happen to know the average age of your customer?

[F]

I don't. I would fathom it's in the 20s, early 30s.

[Victor Garcia]

Okay. So they know how to upload photos. Right. If you have an older customer, they don't know how to upload photos. So you also have to make it easy for those customers who may not be so tech. Tech savvy, but might have a little bit more money. But if they're in their 20s and 30s, you're good.

[F]

And can I ask a question?

[Victor Garcia]

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

[F]

A question on the pricing. So I do it starts at the 149 and then you have price adders for various waterproofing or various little features that you can put in there. Should. I've been thinking about doing the like one click purchase type of thing. It automatically sets it up. Which approach there do you think? You know, one builds the cost up in a way that people are like recognizing the value of the item they're adding. Maybe. Or should I just jump to the. This is five additional features on there.

[Victor Garcia]

I would show three bags. I would show small, medium and large. Right. Very often people feel more responsible if they just go for the medium. They feel cheap if they go for the small, they feel superior if they go for the large. It's really crazy. But these things are very true. So start with something that's one click. I think it is about reducing the complication in terms of what should they choose. And you could even say like X people chose this one today. X people chose this one today. Or this one's the best seller. And you see all of these when you go to websites, you see all the times that people sort of guiding people towards what the best selling one is because people will think that if a lot of other people did it, it must be the right thing to do. It's just how the human brain works. And then get your follow up emails in order so that you are communicating with those customers regular. They were excited about that bag. You know, it's a great thing and it's really practical for them. Don't let them forget. Right. And just don't feel shy about following up and sending those emails because if you don't, somebody else is going to get them.

[Marcia Kilgore]

That's great advice. Yeah, great advice. Jack Boland. The brand is called Wampy Bikes. Thanks so much for calling in. Good luck.

[F]

Thank you so much. This has been so helpful and wonderful meeting the two of you.

[Victor Garcia]

So thanks, Jack.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Thank you, Marcia. Great, great advice.

[Victor Garcia]

My God, I just loved this. I loved it.

[Guy Raz]

Super helpful, very practical.

[Victor Garcia]

I'm practical for sure.

[Marcia Kilgore]

And also thank you for helping me out while I'm getting through this, recovering from being sick all week. Marcy, before I let you go, you know something? I ask every guest who comes onto the advice line, which is, what would you, you know, now that you have.

[Guy Raz]

All of this experience, what would you.

[Marcia Kilgore]

If you could go back to you when you started out, you know, New York, giving facials and then bliss, what advice do you have now that would have been helpful for you back then?

[Victor Garcia]

Oh, so much. There is a mountain of advice and I'm giving it to people all the time. It was a very different time, of course, and we didn't have the Internet to get feedback on. I think that's a real gift to new entrepreneurs today because you can put your thing out there and just get straight, immediate feedback from people and listen to it and use it as a tool. So I was very hands on in my businesses and we had to take quite a few cannonball fires before bullets where you had to take some big risks. I think taking small risks and learning without betting the farm is a great piece of advice for anybody who's a young startup founder who is working on their own and working on a limited budget.

[Marcia Kilgore]

That's great advice. That's Marcia Kilgore, serial entrepreneur and founder of Beauty Pie. Marcia, thanks so much.

[Victor Garcia]

Stay alive, guy. No matter what cold occurs.

[Marcia Kilgore]

And by the way, if you haven't heard Marcia's original How I Built this episode, you've got to go back and check it out. You will find a link to it in the podcast description and Here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.

[Victor Garcia]

I treated myself to a facial after an economics exam and I had saved 40 or $50 to go to this place that was supposed to be the be all and end all of facials. And I remember walking into that place and the esthetician looked through the lamp at my skin and she actually went, what a pity. And I thought to myself, this is not a treat. And I left feeling so horrendous and I remember just seeing my reflection and my face was kind of raw and blotchy and thinking if I ever had a place like that, I would never make my customers feel bad about themselves.

[Guy Raz]

Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for [e-mail] each week. It's packed with tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions you'd like help with, and hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice [e-mail] or call us at 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there and we'll put all this in the podcast description as well.

[Marcia Kilgore]

This episode was produced by Carla Estevez with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce.

[Guy Raz]

Our audio engineer was Sina Lofredo.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Our production staff also includes Chris masini.

[Guy Raz]

Alex Chung, J.C. howard, Casey Herman, Sam.

[Marcia Kilgore]

Paulson, Kerry Thompson, Katherine Cipher, John Isabella.

[Guy Raz]

Neva Grant and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the advice line on how I built this lab. If you like how I built this, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey survey. You set the gold standard for your business. Your website should do the same. WIX puts you at the helm so you can enjoy the creative freedom of designing your site just the way you want. Want someone to bounce your ideas off? Talk with AI to create a beautiful site together. Whatever your business, manage it from one place and tie it all together with a personalized domain name Gear up for success with the brand that says you.

[Lydia Welsh]

Best you can do it yourself on wix.