Advice Line with Monica Nassif of Mrs. Meyers

Summary

How I Built This with Guy Raz

Advice Line with Monica Nassif of Mrs. Meyers

Release Date: January 22, 2026
Guest: Monica Nassif, Founder of Mrs. Meyer's Clean Day

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Episode Overview

This Advice Line episode of How I Built This features Monica Nassif, founder of Mrs. Meyer's Clean Day, as she joins Guy Raz to provide real-time mentorship to entrepreneurs facing various business challenges. While weaving in personal anecdotes and wisdom from her journey, Monica helps callers navigate branding, marketing, operational scaling, and growth strategy. The episode focuses on authenticity in brand building, disciplined scaling, and the importance of lean, focused business practices.

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Main Themes

• Building an Authentic Brand Voice
• Strategic Growth and Scaling
• Operational Challenges in Product and Service Businesses
• The Power of Personal Storytelling
• Importance of Targeted Marketing and Lean Experimentation

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Monica Nassif’s Branding Philosophy & The Origin of Mrs. Meyers

[04:38–08:49]

• Guy introduces Monica, recounts the genesis of Mrs. Meyer's Clean Day—her own “knockoff” of her original premium brand Caldrea, inspired by her real-life mother.
• Monica emphasizes building a brand voice that is “authentic and emotionally resonant,” warning:

  “You have to be authentic, and you can’t fake it anymore. The consumer’s way too savvy.” (Monica Nassif, 06:48)

• Her mother, the real Mrs. Meyer, was not just a mascot but genuinely involved:

  "She was the original earth muffin...the original eco-friendly mother, if you will." (Monica Nassif, 07:20)

• Memorable anecdote about her mother’s candidness during a book pitch:

  “Well, I had a box of 48 Kotex and I never got through it. That was her opening salvo.” (Monica Nassif, 08:14)

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2. Caller: Alison Hombres — Encelia Hair (Comfortable, Modern Wigs)

[09:02–19:29]

• Alison describes the stigmatized, uncomfortable wig market and her own experience with alopecia driving her to redesign wigs with comfort and fit in mind, using “power mesh” reminiscent of yoga pants.
• Market Opportunity:

  “Total wigs in extension is $8 billion. For just wigs, about $6.” (Alison Hombres, 11:51)

• Alison’s main challenge: Educating customers about feature differences that aren’t visible in photographs.
• Advice from Monica & Guy:
  • Monica affirms this is an "unbranded category" and Alison has a unique founder story that must be front and center.
  • Guy recommends direct, visual comparisons and leveraging Alison’s personal story—and position as the “face and soul of the brand.” Monica adds:

    “You’re just a compelling personality...you should be doing these videos, bald, inside out, showing how it fits.” (Monica Nassif, 15:35)

  • Practical Marketing Tips:
    • Start with organic social content featuring Alison.
    • Invest in micro-influencers and authentic video storytelling.
    • Guy suggests a simple, emotionally resonant two-minute origin video:

      “Your story is so compelling…turn [it] into a two-minute clip and put on every social media site you can.” (Guy Raz, 18:33)

    • Monica insists it doesn’t need to be professional, only authentic:

      “I think it needs to be real and you’re real.” (Monica Nassif, 19:20)

• Alison’s current scale: ~$200k annual revenue, mostly bootstrapped.

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3. Caller: Nick Harman — Randomals (Mix-and-Match Plush Toys & Books)

[23:10–33:46]

• Nick’s company offers “combination animal” plush toys (e.g., “frammel” = frog + camel), books, and beanies, promoting the message: “What makes us different makes all the difference in the world.”
• Guy and Monica are both struck by the unique, ownable concept.
• Large boost from viral videos—especially a London Toy Fair video going to 36 million views and a major retail partnership with Ripley’s.
• Sales: Just under $1 million last year; aiming for above $1 million this year.

Nick’s Challenge: Focus and scale—whether to expand abroad, invest in animation/TV, or double down on operations and US retail.

• Advice from Monica & Guy:
  • Focus on the US market, refine operations before diversifying (“never leave rep groups alone—do ridealongs, training, incentives” — Monica Nassif, 27:21).
  • Discipline is key:

    “If you are doing too many things, that turns into chaos and not strategy.” (Guy Raz, 33:12)

  • Follow where product-market fit is strongest (currently Ripley’s and specialty US stores).
  • Delay international expansion and animation pursuits until operational fundamentals (inventory management, supply chain) are rock solid.

    "You have to pick a path right now... I’m not saying forever..." (Monica Nassif, 32:37)

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4. Caller: Ben Roethenhaefer — Chandelier Cleaning VA (Luxury Service Business)

[35:20–43:34]

• Ben runs a specialty cleaning service for antique and modern chandeliers, mostly in Virginia/DC/Maryland. It's a high-touch, luxury, and manual business.
• His goal: Assess readiness to expand—whether by buying out retiring competitors’ client lists or just scaling staff.

Advice from Monica & Guy:

• Monica: “Am I ready for scale? I always say it’s research and math." Consider market size, service frequency, cost structure.
• Guy: “You could run a great business...or you can try to scale it. To do that, you need another tech like you who can be autonomous.”
• Until Ben can train and trust another technician to uphold the brand (and perhaps share equity), focus on cautiously growing core operations.

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5. Monica’s Retrospective Advice on Disciplined Growth

[44:11–46:23]

• Monica expands on how it's tempting for creative founders to want to “be everywhere and do everything,” but disciplined, targeted growth wins.
• Recounts learning the importance of focusing on major markets and slowly expanding outward:

  "...we just chipped away. New York, Atlanta, big major markets that would be so much more accepting." (Monica Nassif, 44:56)

• Also shares that “ignorance is bliss” early on, encouraging founders to keep momentum but stay focused and persevere:

  “There is a benefit of being ignorant, but at the same time, passionate and focused and persevering through it all.” (Monica Nassif, 46:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Authenticity in Branding:

  "You have to be authentic, and you can’t fake it anymore. The consumer’s way too savvy.”
  (Monica Nassif, 06:48)

• On Telling Your Own Story:

  “Your story is so compelling…turn [it] into a two-minute clip and put on every social media site you can.”
  (Guy Raz, 18:33)

• On the Challenge of Discipline for Entrepreneurs:

  “If you are doing too many things, that turns into chaos and not strategy.”
  (Guy Raz, 33:12)

• On Being a Brand’s Face:

  “You’re just a compelling personality...you should be doing these videos, bald, inside out, showing how it fits.”
  (Monica Nassif, 15:35)

• On Early Risks and Learning by Doing:

  “Ignorance is bliss. I knew so little about [the costs]...and yet we went after it.”
  (Monica Nassif, 45:28)

• On Delegating and Scaling Service Businesses:

  “To do that, you need another tech like you who can be autonomous, who you don’t have to supervise.”
  (Guy Raz, 43:30)

• On Her Mother’s Candor and Authenticity:

  “Well, I had a box of 48 Kotex and I never got through it.”
  (Mrs. Meyers, as quoted by Monica Nassif, 08:14)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:38] — Monica’s brand origin story and the power of authenticity
• [09:02] – [19:29] — Alison Hombres (Encelia Hair) and the fundamentals of founder-driven marketing
• [23:10] – [33:46] — Nick Harman (Randomals), handling viral growth, and staying operationally focused
• [35:20] – [43:34] — Ben Roethenhaefer (Chandelier Cleaning VA), scaling service businesses
• [44:11] – [46:23] — Monica’s advice on harnessing discipline, patience, and strategic market targeting

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Conclusion and Takeaways

This episode delivers a masterclass in disciplined entrepreneurship, with Monica Nassif’s experience and Guy Raz’s probing questions emphasizing the necessity of authenticity, targeted growth, and lean experimentation. Whether it’s launching a comfort-focused wig brand, scaling a viral plush toy company, or expanding a niche service business, the consistent advice is: “authentic story first, disciplined growth second, and never lose focus on the basics.”

For those who haven’t listened, it’s a trove of practical insights—enriching for founders in any industry, especially those wrestling with how to grow while staying true to themselves.

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Listen to the full conversation on How I Built This with Guy Raz for more stories behind iconic brands and candid entrepreneurial wisdom.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Glad to be back, Guy.

[A]

So it's great to have you. As you were, I think, on the show almost a year ago and you told us the amazing story of building Mrs. Meyer's cleaning products. And for people who haven't heard it, we'll drop a link into the show. Notes. You basically had this. I mean, it came about during an epiphany when you were in the middle of, I think like a Target or something and you looked at the shelves of soaps and cleansers and you thought, you know, I can probably do this better. This was, I think the late 90s, right? And you did go on to launch a line of cleaning products in 2000. It was called Caldrea. You eventually got that to Williams and Sonoma, and then Monica was worried other brands would knock off Caldrea, so you created your own knockoff version of your own brand, and you called it Mrs. Meyers. And then that brand, of course, grew really fast, and then it was sold to Jessie Johnson in 2008. Mrs. Myers is a real human. Mrs. Meyers is named after your mother.

[B]

She's still alive.

[A]

Still alive.

[B]

93.

[A]

She still reps, right? She still goes and, like, reps the brand.

[B]

Even though she's not on the case.

[A]

She still reps. Yeah, she's. Did your mom hear your episode of How I Built this?

[B]

She did. She really liked it, and she knows I'm doing this advice line thing, and she's very excited.

[A]

We should have had her on with you.

[B]

She would be awesome on the show.

[A]

Oh, man. Maybe. All right, we're gonna figure that out.

[B]

Oh, man. She'd be good.

[A]

Before we bring in our callers, I wanted to ask you a question. This relates to your mom. Right. Because, you know, a lot of the companies that we have on the advice line and some that will come on today are focused on trying to figure out how to build a, like, an authentic brand voice. And from the very beginning, you guys had such a strong voice and identity. Right. I mean, even the copy of the product would say, like, it works like the dickens on dirt. And your mom is the brand inspiration. She is. Mrs. Meyers, what advice do you have and do you give founders who are trying to figure out how to, like, build the voice of their company and their brand?

[B]

I think it has to be true to the founder's mission. You know, you have to be authentic, and you can't fake it anymore. You know, the consumer's way too savvy. There's so many brands to pick from. I mean, if you don't resonate emotionally with the consumer, you're just gonna have a really hard time.

[A]

Yeah. And also, I mean, in your case, your mascot was real, like your mom. Yeah. Like, this was a real human who really did the cleaning in a house of nine kids in Iowa. And now you can get the cleaning products inspired by her.

[B]

Oh, yeah. She was the real deal. In fact, when we first started doing media interviews in, every time we had a new product launch, I tried to coach her with three key messages. That was a disaster. So I just let her rep, and she just talked honestly about raising nine kids. She was the original earth muffin. She had a garden. She recycled, repurposed, made every meal from scratch. You know, she was kind of the original eco friendly mother, if you will.

[A]

Yeah. Did you ever have to say and bump. Don't say this, please.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Don't say this.

[B]

Yes. Did I ever tell you the story guy? Maybe. Can I tell you the story? Can we say on the air? Okay, yeah. She wrote a cleaning book, Right. It was a marketing tool for us. We're in New York. We go around trying to find a publisher. We've got an agent. We've got six meetings. We go into our first meeting, and this woman just immediately hugs my mother. She's from Texas and she's tall, buxom's, got the big old draw. And she goes. Before we begin, how in the world did you have nine children in 10 years? And my mom says, well, I had a box of 48 Kotex and I never got through it. That was her opening salvo. I love it.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Oh, the reporters loved it. I was mortified. I was so embarrassed. I don't think the intern that was taking notes knew what a cotex was. I couldn't wait to get out there fast enough. But that's my mother. The truth.

[A]

I love it. Monica, are you ready to bring in our first caller?

[B]

I'm ready.

[A]

All right, let's bring in our first caller. Please introduce yourself, tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just one quick line about your business.

[C]

My name is Alison Hombres, calling in from San Diego, and I'm the founder of Encelia Hair. Encelia is putting an end to subpar wigs. Wigs are itchy, hot, fit women. Poorly inspired by my own journey with hair loss, I set out to bring the same comfort and flexibility of yoga pants to the wig industry.

[A]

Awesome. Alison, thanks for calling in. And Celia, Hair. Okay, so you make wigs. Tell me how this. How did you start a wig business?

[C]

I was eight months pregnant with my son. Second pregnancy. And I had one patch of bald spot on top of my head. And within 20 days, I lost 80% of my hair.

[A]

Wow. Which is a lot more common than people realize. Alopecia, right? Yeah.

[C]

I have alopecia universalis, which is the most aggressive form. So I have no hair anywhere, no eyebrows, no eyelashes.

[A]

And this just happened while you were pregnant?

[C]

Yeah, no. Total fluke. The doctors, we really didn't understand. I got sick. It's sort of a long story, but I lost 15 pounds in the eighth month of my second pregnancy. So it was stressful and all that.

[A]

And I'm sure it was really Traumatic, right? Because you all of a sudden have to figure out, okay, how am I going? What, you know, what am I going to do?

[C]

Yeah. I had to go shop for wigs with a newborn. I lived in San Francisco at the time. And so just, I mean, awful experience, wig shopping. You know, I went into one shop in the Mission and the guy looked at me with my baby. He was in the car seat and was like, you have 30 minutes to try on five wigs.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And had no private room. I just, I had a terrible go with wigs. It crushed my self esteem. My first wig was two sizes too big. It was itchy. It wasn't my style. Everything about it just wasn't me. And you're super self conscious in the wig to begin with. And so I became obsessed with wigs. I started learning about wigs online and I went to a wig training program. And so I ended up starting a wig consulting business that I operated for two years. And so I learned a lot about the industry. What women like, what women don't like, and a lot of the frustrations.

[A]

And then you decided to start your own brand.

[C]

Yeah. The wig industry is, to put it really simple, is you have a handful of legacy brands that have been around forever. You can get an affordable wig, and your wig life is not all that great. Or if you want something that fits well and something that's comfortable, you're spending up to five to $10,000. And I just got tired of that story.

[A]

It's so interesting because I'm sure it's a larger market than most. Do you know what the total addressable market is for wigs in the United States?

[C]

So the total wigs in extension is 8 billion. And then for just wigs, it's about 6.

[A]

6 billion. $6 billion, you say?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's massive. I mean, that is an amazing opportunity.

[C]

Well, thank you. I'm trying my best. And that's why, I mean, Monica, you're a genius when it comes to marketing and creating brands. And Gaia, you as well. I'm such a huge fan of you, your show. That's why I'm here. Because, like, I have a strong sales background, but marketing for me is I'm not my specialty.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you're trying to figure this out. And just before I bring Monica in, what makes your wigs different?

[C]

Yeah, so wigs are traditionally made out of lace. The material is stiff, rigid.

[A]

It's itchy on your head.

[C]

Itchy, not breathable. Heavy, bulky. And I'm just taking everything the complete opposite Approach. So, you know, think of the power mesh material and then the seamless, flexible stitching that you get in your athletic clothing. That's what the wig feels like, but it's hidden, it's unseen. You can't see it from a picture. And so I'm having a hard time figuring out how to reach more women and how to educate them on the unseen aspects of the wig that are actually the most important aspects.

[A]

Okay, Monica, I want to bring you in here a really cool story. Thoughts? Questions for Alison.

[B]

Well, I think the most exciting thing about your story is, Alison. This is an unbranded category.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And 6 billion in revenue, and no one's building a brand. And you have a really differentiated story. I was listening to you talk going, oh, my gosh, it sounds like Nike, you know, fashion and fit. Hey, tell me this, that market that you mentioned, the women that you want to go after, how do they find you? I mean, do they find you how? From they have cancer, they've lost their hair, they ask a friend. And how does that work?

[C]

So right now, I haven't done any advertising. I actually just started advertising on Meta and Google this past month, but I have. It's just been organic. So through just purely ranking on Google organically and then on my little lonely Instagram page that I work really hard on, I did have a wholesale side of my business that I've kind of ended. So I got some referral business from that. At one point, I was working with 20 wholesale wig boutiques across the US but I just got overlooked and overshadowed by some of the leading brands. It's hard to get people to change what products they recommend.

[A]

I don't know anything about this market, but if you are a woman looking for a wig, clearly you've dealt with these pain points. The itchiness, they don't fit well. They're heavy. They're not working for me. And so is there a world where you literally, like, make videos, short videos, or you're showing people what the inside looks like and why you are making, let's say, like the Lululemon performance wear, like, literally turning it inside out, stretching, and then comparing it to what's available on the market and why? This one is very different.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I think the visual, it's exciting in terms of what Guy's saying. And especially you, you're the real deal, right? You don't have any hair now you have gorgeous wigs.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's compelling.

[A]

And you are the model in a lot of these photos, right?

[C]

Yeah. Right. Now I am, because I don't have the funds to outsource that. And it's hard. I'm sort of a big believer in having models who have hair loss and it's hard to find them. So it's hard to get the right photos from the right people sort of thing.

[B]

I think you're just a compelling personality that you should be doing these videos, you know, bald inside out, showing how it fits.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, you are. I agree, Monica. I mean, you are the brand here.

[B]

You are.

[A]

Are you putting yourself out there in any way besides on the website?

[C]

I mean, I've been very quiet with the brand on purpose. Manufacturing has been a huge hurdle. The industry is very opaque and hard to break into. So it's only within the last, actually six months that I have had, I have diversified my manufacturing and I work with some of the largest wig manufacturers in the world now. And I have very strong relationships with them. And so I haven't had the confidence that I could keep up with demand. And so I didn't want to, like, shout to the world, like, here's this amazing wig that's just groundbreaking and then not be able to deliver on it.

[A]

How are you doing with sales, by the way?

[C]

So last year I did, and again, it's just myself, a bootstrapping sole entrepreneur, no advertising. Last year I did 90,000. I only had one product, which was the. The sport headband wig, active wig. And then this year I introduced my full wig, which I'm wearing, and a few other accessory products. And I'm doing. I'm going to hit above 200 this month.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

If you're going to bring in 200k this year in sales, you got to think about how much of that you can put into marketing, advertising. Usually it's about 10%. It's a lot of money. It's 20 grand. Right. But you want to think about what you could, if you could spend that, what you could do with that money. I mean, it seems like you have an opportunity to really, you need to get in front of the camera, really dive into what you can do for free, which is you and social media, and then think strategically about how you want to spend some money on targeted ads.

[C]

And where would you spend it if you had. If you were me?

[A]

I have some thoughts. Monica, do you have something?

[B]

I mean, I would. Social media is where I would spend it.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Meta.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Think about a TikTok store.

[A]

It's tougher these days. You know, customer acquisition is tougher on social media. But you gotta try. I wouldn't put all of your eggs in that basket right away. And I would try different small experiments. You know, start with $100 and then maybe 500 and 1,000 and see where that goes. Small micro influencers for a category like this, critical. I mean, if you can find somebody with 1,000 or 5,000 followers, you could probably work with them for a few hundred bucks.

[C]

Yeah, and it works. I mean, I've done some micro influencers before, just people that I love, that I've seen over the years. And as soon as I send them a product, I usually get revenue back. I usually make sales from it.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

I would also think about investing in a video about you and your story. A two minute video telling your story. You know, Liquid Death launched its brand with a fifteen hundred dollar video. I mean, really, that is the story. And so your story is so compelling. Like, this happened to me, I didn't expect it. My life changed and all of a sudden I'm a young mom trying to find wigs and it's. It sucks. And so I decided to start the company to do this. Like that is a simple, clear, compelling story that you should turn into a two minute clip and put on every social media site you can.

[B]

Totally agree.

[C]

Do you think it needs to be super professionally done or just not at all?

[B]

I think it needs to be real and you're real. I think it needs to be authentic. You need to show, look, I'm bald now I'm not. And tell the story. Guy just said.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, you've got your marching orders. Alison Hombre and Celia Hair, good luck.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Thank you guys. Such a big fan. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you. Thanks for calling in. Okay, next up after the break, another caller with another business challenge. I'm Guy Raz and we're answering your business questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab. It feels pretty amazing when you and your team are batting around great ideas, but it can be frustrating when you're having trouble executing them quickly. Do you wish your team could move at the speed of their ideas? Simply throwing AI at the problem without clarity doesn't help. It makes your process messier. Miro changes the game powered by AI Teamwork that normally takes weeks gets done in days. I know that Miro AI is great for summarizing interview notes and generating key takeaways. With the ability to organize my thoughts faster. Tight deadlines aren't so intimidating. It recommends areas to double down, clarify inputs and add direct feedback. And you can build Custom sidekicks that integrate into other workflows for exactly what your team needs. Spend time on building, not digging for information. Help your teams get great done with miro. Check out miro.com to find out how. That's miro.com every business is asking the same question. How do we make AI work? For us, guessing is risky, but sitting on the sidelines isn't an option. Your competitors are already making their move. Stop waiting. With NetSuite by Oracle, you can put AI to work today. NetSuite is the 1 AI Cloud ERP trusted by over 43,000 businesses. It unifies your financials, inventory and CRM into a single source of truth, making your AI smarter. Plus, with the NetSuite AI connector, you can use the AI of your choice to ask specific questions about your actual data, from inventory trends to cash on hand. I know lots of companies that run NetSuite and they couldn't operate without it right now. Get their free business guide demystifying [e-mail] built. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com bilt netsuite.com Bilt Emirates Premium economy Class elevates the flying experience with an entirely new level of comfort and sophistication. Settle into wider cream leather seats with generous legroom and enjoy priority boarding. Savor premium dining with Royal Dalton China paired with Chandon sparkling wine and exclusive business class vintages. The 13.3 inch HD entertainment system offers thousands of options for your journey. This isn't just Premium Economy, it's Emirates Premium Economy. Exceptional service meets unmatched comfort at a smarter price point. To find out more about Emirates premium economy visit emirates.com us that's emirates.com us. Welcome back to the advice line on How I Built this Lab. I'm Guy Raz and my guest today is Monica Nassif. She's the founder of Mrs. Meyers and we are taking your calls. And let's bring in our next caller.

[D]

Hi Guy and Monica. It's been a dream to be on your show so thanks for this opportunity. My name is Nick Harman. I'm the co founder of Randomals. I'm originally from the UK but I've lived for the last 32 years in Sun Valley, Idaho. Randomals are combination animal plush figures, beanies and two award winning books with a simple message. What makes us different makes all the difference in the world.

[A]

All right, thanks for calling in Nick. So Randomles like random animals. Is that the portmanteau here?

[D]

That's right. That's where it came From.

[A]

All right, I'm looking at you, I'm looking at your website. So I see a frame, a frammel which is a frog camel. So like has a frog arms and legs and a frog head, but a camel like the camel humps and there's a hork. So a shark's hat, a shark on a horse and a girdle, which is a giraffe with a turtle back. This is super interesting. Very, very unique. How did this come about? Tell me the story behind this.

[D]

Oh, thank you, guy. There's two inspirations. The first inspiration, this was a pandemic company back in 2021 and I had a dog, a bassetor. Part basset and part lab. He had all the lovingness of a lab and the stubbornness of a bassett. And that's where the idea came from. But more importantly, the book and the origin story of the randomals. That inspiration came from my wife's daughter's love of toy story and specifically the inspiration of the little boy next door, Sid that used to like to destroy his toys. She always thought that he needed a redemption story. And so in the book Ollie the bassador choose all the little girls toys. She's devastated. She finds bits and pieces everywhere, but she finds a way to put them back together and create the random mult.

[A]

I love it. Yeah. Imagine if you could cross breed a gorilla and an elephant. You would have an elarilla as you have in your cast of plush toys. Okay. So you start this business, you make, and I'm assuming these are mainly sold online or do you also sell these in shops?

[D]

Probably 90% of the business is online. But we just recently had a really successful story through an unlikely place. The company called Ripley's believe it or not and Ripley's aquarium. They'd seen one of our viral videos and they did a test in a couple of stores. They bought 10 cases to start with and a few weeks later they called back and said, we're going to need some pallets. So they ordered 10 pallets and then within three months they went national and they now order by the 40 foot container. And the manager of the retail department said they've never seen anything that's brand new fly off the shelves so fast.

[A]

What do you expect to do in sales this year?

[D]

Last year we did just under a million and this year we're hoping to do just over a million.

[A]

All right, that's great. Okay, so before we dive in further, what's your question for us?

[D]

The question is we think that random models is an important Inflection point. We want to capitalize on our momentum, but we think our strategies become a little scattershot. We've launched in a couple of other countries. We've dabbled in rep groups, we're meeting with animation companies and toy companies and we often talk about bringing on investment and hiring some real marketing and expertise in E commerce. And we'd love any advice that you have regarding where you think we should focus our attention and what path do you think we should take to scale the business to the next level.

[A]

All right, Monica, I want to bring you in here. Randomals Definitely just a fresh take on the stuffed animal category.

[B]

Yeah, I mean they're really funny and odd and lovable all at the same time. Just listening to you, I really think you have to focus in terms of. I would just focus on the U.S. market and how many toy stores are in the U.S. could there even be 10,000?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

So if you're going to go wholesale, you really have to work smartly with your rep groups to make it happen. Never ever leave rep groups alone. Never. You've got to do ride alongs, you've got to do training, you've got to get them excited with incentives because they're walking into a toy store with 10 to, you know, 20 brands. And why is your brand at the top of their bag? That's one thing for sure. I would not go to other countries right now. Right now.

[D]

Oh, I was just going to say I agree. I agree. The one good thing we did go to the London Toy Fair back in January and the happiest of accidents happened. A guy with hardly any followers did a video of me telling the random little story and within a couple of weeks it hit 36 million views. And that really got the attention of not only people calling from producers and also retail stores. So that was a really a true blessing in disguise. But I agree with you that refocusing on the US because I'm sure we haven't scratched the surface of it yet is probably the way to go.

[B]

And then that's not even Target, Walmart, Toys R Us, we're talking specialty. And then you're going to move to mass. So you have a huge opportunity here.

[A]

In the U.S. yeah, I mean, tell me a little bit about supply. I mean, how are you financing? Are you having problems financing purchase orders?

[D]

With our success that we've had and some of the viral videos, yes. That's been a very frustrating aspect to begin with. We started with $100,000. We haven't taken any money out of the business for the last five years, everything goes back into keeping up with inventory. Because I'm sure, as you both know, running out of inventory is criminal. And it's happened to us on more than one occasion, especially when these videos pop up online that we have no idea about. Just within the first couple of weeks of us launching, I thought that it was our killer marketing and social media posts that had blown up our store. But it turns out it was a toy designer in Chicago that just saw the brand online, ordered all the products, did a unboxing and we sold out of everything. And it essentially broke the store. And obviously, you know, takes two or three months for the product to get over here. Tariffs have been a bit of an issue. So yes, keeping up with inventory is definitely a challenge.

[B]

Nick, how many SKUs do you have? How many products do you have?

[D]

We have 16 plush toys, 11 hard toys, 10 beanies and three books.

[B]

Okay, so you're not over assorted, really? That's good. So you can really control. Do a better job of controlling your inventory.

[D]

I'm always wanting to create more. I've got lots in the pipeline, but yes, my other partner tells me to slow down.

[A]

So really? And so the question is many questions. Do you expand outside of the US And I, again, I agree with Monica on this. I wouldn't do that right now. I would really focus on fixing your, your supply chain. Right. Because and this happens, you get an order from a toy store or toy company and then you go and manufacture it and then they cancel it. And so you're left with all this product. Right. And I mean, there are, there are ways around that. You can, you can create some mechanisms to protect yourself, but at the end of the day, you want to find the cheapest and most efficient way to make this at the highest quality. And so the Ripley's thing is interesting, right? How many, do you know how many shops they have?

[D]

I think we're in about 21. It's the Ripley's Believe it or not, which is the oddities. And then there's also the Ripley's aquariums. So they really like the ones, the random ones that have an aquatic theme. And they've had a brilliant merchandiser and that has been a key to our success in retail, I think. Having a merchandiser.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it seems like you want to follow the pull, right. And the Ripley's to me, seems like that's sort of the clearest sign of a product market fit right now. I think you want to give that more time and really use the time to focus on operations before you really push out further. Just maybe take a step back. It may be a little frustrating because it's exciting, but. But you want to focus on having an efficient supply chain and you want to focus on having a strong relationship with that customer and then maybe even building out in the cities where those ripleys are located. Right. And targeting independent toy stores. That's where I think you want to really kind of build out the brand, you know, in other stores around there.

[B]

Yeah, I would agree. And get a good sales group to really pound away, let's just say San Francisco, other major markets where they're just strong independent toy stores.

[D]

We've had quite a bit of interest from different sort of animation studios and producers as a result of that video that went viral. Do you think that we should pursue that hard? Obviously, that would be a tremendous exposure for the brand. If we were to be able to get anything like a TV show or just YouTube shorts, I think it would be a great way of telling the story and bringing that to life.

[B]

It's tempting, isn't it? Because it's so sexy. Right. So you have to ask yourself, what business are you in? And you're so small. You have to pick a path right now. I'm not saying forever, but for right now, you got to pick a path in terms of a way to grow.

[A]

I agree. I think you're being stretched and already being stretched in too many directions right now. I think you need discipline. I think you need operational strength. I think you want to focus on, as I say, supply chain. I'm not saying for a year or two. I'm saying for like three, four months. Really get that down.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because if you are doing too many things, that turns into chaos and not strategy. Right. You've got a good. It sounds like you've got a good brand. The IP is gaining traction. You've got this Ripley's thing that's going pretty well. I would look at that as an opportunity to really lean into and then try and build out geographically based on those locations.

[D]

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.

[A]

The brand is called Random Bulls. Nick Harman, good luck. Thanks for calling in.

[D]

Thank you, Guy.

[B]

Thanks, Nick.

[D]

Thank you, Monica.

[A]

All right, awesome. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz. Stick around. You're listening to the advice on how I built this lab. This is a message from sponsor Intuit TurboTax. Tax deadline looming, and you're Stuck in the dark. We've all been there. Sending documents to a tax pro, then playing the waiting game, constantly checking for updates that seem to never come soon enough. TurboTax changes that match with a TurboTax full service expert and get unlimited support on your taxes at no extra cost, even during evenings and weekends throughout tax season. Simply upload your documents and watch your return progress in real time while you focus on what matters to you. TurboTax experts work to maximize your refund, ensuring you get every dollar you deserve. No more chasing updates or wondering if everything's on track. With TurboTax Expert full service, you'll have the confidence of knowing exactly where your taxes stand every step of the way. Real time Updates only in iOS mobile app now this is taxes intuit TurboTax. Visit TurboTax.com to match with your expert today. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking calls with Mrs. Meyers founder, Monica Nassif. So, Monica, are you ready?

[B]

I am ready. I'm thrilled to be here, Guy. Let's do it.

[A]

Let's do it. Awesome.

[E]

Hey, Monica. Hey, Guy. My name is Ben Roethenhaefer and my company is Chandelier Cleaning VA. I'm based out of Richmond, VA and service the surrounding states. We specialize in cleaning and the restoration of antique and modern lighting. Our work preserves the integrity in historic architecture while bringing a new brilliance to the spaces we serve.

[A]

Ben, thanks for calling in. Welcome to the show. So you are a. You have a chandelier cleaning business. This is a highly specialized job, I imagine. Tell me, how did you get into it?

[E]

Well, it was my destiny, Guy, you know? Yeah, I started about four years ago in Washington, D.C. and you know, it is my way of serving the community and I get a lot out of it. And we're in a new place all the time. We're in beautiful spaces, historic buildings, hotels.

[A]

And you probably are dealing with like, really complex, right? Like a lot of glass, a lot of crystal that you've got to be. You're taking it down very slowly. How do you clean a chandelier? Do you, like, dip it into something? Do you like. I don't even know where to begin.

[E]

We touch every piece by hand twice. And sometimes we do undress the chandelier and put it back together just to reach certain areas.

[A]

By the way, how much does it cost to clean a chandelier? Like an elaborate chandelier?

[E]

I mean, if I look at a piece and a half days from, you know, $500 or if it's a full day's work, maybe a thousand. So.

[A]

Got it. All right, cool. So you've got this business and you're, you're in, you said Virginia, D.C. maryland area. And what are you looking to do?

[E]

There's a lot of opportunity to grow this business. And I service a large territory, but it's a lot to take on. But I just, I'm in a, I'm in a growth stage of two years of owning the business. And we want to expand and we're ready to pay for more marketing, get in bigger magazines. My question is, I want to scale. Am I ready to scale?

[A]

Monica, I want to bring you in here. Questions for Ben.

[B]

Well, one thing I always think, am I ready for scale? I always say it's research and math. Meaning, okay, how big is your market? I mean, okay, you're in hotels, you're in homes, you're in lighting, showrooms. Where are you all these? How many are there in how many markets? And if you think really big frequency of service. I mean, are you cleaning chandeliers for someone's home twice a year, four times a year, once a year? Figure that out. Write that down.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

The cost per service, you know, you said $1,000 for a full day. That doesn't seem like enough. But I don't know the category. I mean, I kind of think of you as a high end car detailer. You know, you're going after this very sophisticated, very high end service. White glove, all of the above.

[E]

Yes. It's luxury.

[B]

And then. Yeah, and then you can project your revenues. You know, once you answer all those questions on a spreadsheet, then you go, okay, that's the Richmond market. Then I'm gonna move, you know, close at hand. You're not gonna go running off to Austin, Texas, for example. So that's the way you answer the question. Am I ready to scale? Is to do the math.

[A]

Yeah. Do you have any employees right now?

[E]

We have two that help me with the labor. Yes.

[A]

Got it. Okay. And how comfortable do you feel bringing on additional employees?

[E]

That's a really good question because I still show up to every job and I'm, you know, this is a high risk job and I want to be there for it. So over the past year and a half, I have been, been really putting time, energy, money into training these associates to hopefully be able to do the labor because I still do show up to every job site.

[B]

I think a big part of this is education. I mean, and it's Also just kind of a glamorous business when you think about it. You know, I would think social media, anything visual would be super exciting to show chandeliers. I mean, the whole process, getting up on a ladder, how you clean it. I mean, people love to watch that stuff. And I would think if you were the expert, like the top of the line car detailer, that's kind of what you are with these chandeliers.

[E]

Thanks. You know, there's a few other businesses out there to be really short. I got really lucky when I moved to Richmond. A guy had recently retired from chandelier cleaning and was started as a gentleman's handshake. Turned into a letter of agreement where I've serviced his clients over 30 years now. And in D.C. something similar is happening. Do you think that's a business worth, you know, taking over the market like you're saying, Monica, and purchasing these other businesses?

[B]

Well, I, I think you have to do the math. That's what I was saying earlier. You really got to figure out how big is this? How can I Service guy was going there with how many employees. So you know your expense structure, but you gotta really sit down and invest time in figuring out is it big enough.

[A]

Ben, what are you doing in sales this year? What do you expect to do in 20? 25?

[E]

75,000.

[A]

Okay, so $75,000. And you're thinking about expanding, which means you've got to hire more people or hire more people and charge more money or do both. And so you mentioned buying another business. What opportunities are there to buy other businesses like yours?

[E]

A former. My former employer who taught me how to do all of this in Washington D.C. 20 plus years of clients. She's moved away to Florida, so there's been discussion. She's a dear friend of mine and currently she does send me some clients for a referral fee.

[B]

I mean, I'm just kind of curious, what do you think the valuation of her business would be that you would acquire it versus just plugging away?

[E]

Yeah, I would only buy part of her business, perhaps her client list.

[A]

That to me seems like the most interesting thing. Right, the client list. And maybe you could just buy that or negotiate some kind of rev share because really you know how to do the work. You probably have a truck, you probably have the tools. Really, it's just about the client list.

[E]

I agree. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then you have opportunity to build your own brand of level of expertise, service, etc.

[E]

Absolutely. My clients mean everything to me.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it seems to me like you could run A great business as you're doing right, you could do 80, 90, 100 grand a year, maybe more, and have some part time employees who help you out and you could do that for the rest of your life and grow, you know, slowly and have a really great, robust, profitable business. Or you can try and scale it, which, you know, really requires another, at least one more tech like you, who can be autonomous, who you don't have to supervise. And until you get there, I don't think that it's, it makes sense to try to think about scaling yet. I think you want to focus on really developing somebody who is going to work with you and who has an incentive to continue to work with you.

[B]

I would agree this is a difficult business to scale. It's all talent driven.

[E]

Guy, do you think that person should have stock in the business?

[A]

Well, maybe, I mean, or maybe you come up with some kind of five year plan that over time they get some, you know, bits of equity, you know, that vest over a five or six year period or more and that incentivizes that person to stay with you and help you grow the business so they don't leave and start a competitor. Right. You want to, your goal is to take over the chandelier cleaning business in, in this part of the country and maybe expand more. You're talking about a limited number of people who have chandeliers, but you want to capture all those customers. To do that, you need additional people who can also be cleaning chandeliers in one part of the state while you're doing it in another part of the state.

[E]

Yes. To the same quality.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Thanks for your insights for sure.

[A]

All right, Ben, thanks for calling in. The company is called Chandelier Cleaning VA works for Virginia. Good luck.

[E]

Thanks guy. Bye bye.

[A]

Thank you. You know, Monica, when you, you know, when you think about when you started this brand, right. The instinct is to just do a million things. It's actually really hard to stop and say we're gonna get disciplined and we're going to do. You remember that feeling when you started, like just wanting to, when you just wanting to be everywhere and do everything and do every partnership and activation.

[B]

Oh yeah. Because especially if you're a creative person, which a lot of brand people are, you can already see five years ahead and you just have to be to your point. You have to be disciplined. That's why when we started, Mrs. Meyers, we just went after more market after market and we just chipped away. We tried the Midwest, that was a disaster. So we just chipped away. New York, Atlanta, big major markets that would be so much more accepting. And we did exactly what you said. We had one store, let's say the Whole Foods store in Columbus Circle in New York, and then we went after all the other stores in the city to generate a lot of awareness in a particular market. It's hard to be disciplined, but it really pays off big time. It really does. And I think I've learned the hard way, frankly.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Monica, when you, you know, if you could go back to when you were starting your business and you had done, you know, you'd done work for Target, I mean, you had experience, but you started a consumer brand and, you know, you also went through some challenges at home and, you know, won't talk about it here, but people should listen to the episode. If you could go back to when you were starting and knowing what you eventually discovered and now what, you know is as a mentor and an investor, what kind of advice would have been helpful for you at that time?

[B]

You know, I think ignorance some ways is bliss. I knew so little about the promotional dollars required to sit on the shelf of a Target or a Walmart or a Kroger, and yet we went after it. And I think if I knew that, oh, my gosh, those promotional dollars were, you know, I don't know what the math is. Let's say 100,000. I may have been a little more scared, but I didn't know. So I just kept chipping away. And they really, you know, a lot of retailers were like, okay, you're a young brand. We'll give you this space. And then as you grow, you gotta pay. So there is a benefit of being ignorant, but at the same time, passionate and focused and persevering through it all. I think if I had to go back and look, I often wondered, should I have created all these brands? Should there have been Caldrea, private label and Mrs. Meyers? Because we eventually got to Mrs. Meyers. So at the end it was. Right. But sometimes I go, did we need to do all that? It was learning, figuring it out.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. It's a good point. Yeah. That's Monica Nassif, founder of Mrs. Meyers. Monica, thank you so much for coming onto the advice line.

[B]

Delighted to be here, guy.

[A]

And by the way, if you haven't heard Monica's original High Built this episode, you've got to go back and check it out. You can find a link to it in the podcast description and the show notes. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview. All of a sudden you've got your mom in the Whole Foods in Columbus Circle in New York, and it's called Mrs. Meyers. And she's like, I'm Mrs. Meyers. But it wasn't like the Charmin Squeeze guy. No, she was real.

[B]

She's like the real deal. Yeah. And we would bring her to trade shows and people just like, loved seeing her and she just embraced this whole thing. And I'm like, but would they ask.

[A]

Her like, hey, how did you invent this? How did you start this business?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

What would she say?

[B]

She would. She would act like she did it. And, you know, at first I kind of always wanted to interrupt and I thought, uh, just let her rip.

[A]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for for [e-mail] or on substack. And of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing, because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice [e-mail] or call us at 1-800-433-13. Leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Kerry Thompson with music composed by Ramtina Rabloui. It was edited by Andrea Bruce and John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Sina Lofredo. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Elaine Coates, Neva Grant, Casey Herman, J.C. howard, Chris Masini, Kathryn Cipher, Kerry Thompson, and Rommel Wood. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.