Advice Line with Pete Maldonado and Rashid Ali of Chomps

Summary

How I Built This: Advice Line with Pete Maldonado and Rashid Ali of Chomps

Host: Guy Raz
Guests: Pete Maldonado & Rashid Ali (Co-founders, Chomps)
Date: February 19, 2026

---

Main Theme

This episode of the Advice Line brings Chomps co-founders Pete Maldonado and Rashid Ali back to share hard-won wisdom with entrepreneurs seeking actionable advice. Guy, Pete, and Rashid tackle real business dilemmas posed by three founders—of Yadi’s Empanadas, Noble Pies, and Achigan Brand—focusing on scaling strategies, market expansion, manufacturing, and the entrepreneurial leap. Candid, empathetic, and user-friendly, the conversation is packed with practical insights about managing risk, growth, and resilience.

---

Episode Breakdown & Key Insights

1. Protein Trends & Handling Crisis at Chomps

Timestamps: 02:27–07:34

• Industry Perspective: Pete and Rashid discuss the ongoing protein boom, noting that while protein is everywhere now, Chomps is positioned for both the “proteinification” trend and, eventually, consumer fatigue.
  • “This is a cultural shift. This is not a fad.” – Pete Maldonado (03:34)
  • GLP-1 medications (like Ozempic) are increasing demand for protein-rich, lower-calorie options.
• Crisis Response: They open up about a major product recall due to potential metal contamination.
  • Rapid, precautionary recall was chosen despite “a painful amount of money” lost and no confirmed contamination.
  • Transparency and proactive action was key: “One recall is one too many… But now I can say with complete confidence that we have handled it, we've got through it. The organization infrastructure is far stronger.” – Rashid Ali (05:01)

---

2. Caller #1: Yadi Deres, Yadi’s Artisanal Empanada

Timestamps: 07:52–19:12
Main Question: Is now the time to expand with a second location, or should we focus on distribution and other models?

Context:

• Former teacher-turned-food entrepreneur, thriving with an empanada shop on SUNY New Paltz campus, generating ~$3,000/day in sales, but faces seasonality (school breaks) and high overhead.

Advice Highlights:

• Labor & Replicability: Make sure management and operations are replicable before expanding.
  • “Are you… running itself? Like, why are you here talking to us?” – Pete Maldonado (12:27)
• Seasonality: College locations are lucrative but have inherent revenue gaps due to academic schedules.
• Food Truck/Commissary Model: Use a food truck for flexibility. During breaks, shift to events or other campuses; consider a commissary model (central kitchen supplying satellite locations, similar to New York bagel shops).
• Delivery & Distribution: Empanadas are prime for delivery (DoorDash, Uber Eats) and wholesale to local businesses.
  • “Think about delivery... such a portable grade item... scalable.” – Rashid Ali (16:20)
• Expansion Approach: Grow with caution. Explore another location within ~45 miles first; consider college towns or a mixed commercial kitchen/retail front.
• Emotional Moment:
  • “As always, there is that feeling of, are we ready? Are we not?… having this conversation… gives me that confidence and the trust and belief… now or never.” – Yadi Deres (18:16)

---

3. Caller #2: Zachary Bonder, Noble Pies

Timestamps: 19:52–30:13
Main Question: How do we break into large retailers (Whole Foods, Target) with our fresh frozen pies when pitches have stalled?

Context:

• Family pie business, $2.2M retail + $200K wholesale (FreshDirect) in 2025, now launching NY store and hoping for broader distribution.

Advice Highlights:

• Capacity & Distribution: Confirm ability to scale—10,000 pies/week, triple-able within six months; currently self-distributing, staying lean.
• Shelf Life Challenge: Four-month freezer life means velocity (turnover) is crucial.
• Differentiate Relentlessly: Emphasize the “upgrade” factor—fewer ingredients, local sourcing, all-butter crust, direct lineage to NY farms.
• Retail Buyer Mindset: Buyers focus on de-risking, velocity, and incremental category growth, not simply finding new brands.
  • “You want to show that by bringing this product on they are de-risked… It’s all about growing the category.” – Guy Raz (25:36, Pete Maldonado)
• Tactical Recommendations:
  • Use existing strong sales/velocity data at FreshDirect/farmers markets to prove demand.
  • Don’t apply everywhere; focus on a single Whole Foods region or tight cluster.
  • “Getting into the retailer is honestly the easiest part... It’s staying and performing.” – Rashid Ali (27:19)
  • Do E-commerce, especially during high holidays, as interest spikes.
  • Engage local store managers directly—they often have more say than expected.
  • “The store manager… is going to be your biggest advocate.” – Guy Raz (26:35)
• Growth Philosophy: Grow deep before wide, expand channel by channel, balance capacity and risk.

---

4. Caller #3: Josh Schrenko, Achigan (Smallmouth Bass Apparel & Lures)

Timestamps: 30:52–44:38
Main Question: How do I know when to “go all in” and take my business full-time?

Context:

• Outdoor podcaster-turned-founder, growing niche brand for smallmouth bass anglers: apparel plus fast-selling, handmade lures. Revenue just shy of $100k, all organic, currently bootstrapped while running a medical distribution business.

Advice Highlights:

• Full-time Leap: Don’t rush; founders at Chomps both took years before quitting their “day jobs.” Key is having financial runway—cover family and life expenses.
  • “It’s really kind of self reflection… What do you need to support your life? What’s your risk tolerance?” – Rashid Ali (36:39)
• Focus for Impact: Consider narrowing SKUs; lures are higher-margin than apparel, and demand is proven.
  • “You have a niche audience… build a brand for small money… then snowball.” – Pete Maldonado (39:39)
• Solve for Demand & Scale: Prioritize streamlining production and meeting demand to judge the venture’s true ceiling.
  • “You need to create that anchor technical solve which you're circling right now… Once you figure out the unlock and how to scale… that’s going to answer your question.” – Rashid Ali (41:08)
• Co-founder Dynamics: Maybe only one founder goes full-time to start; structure flexibly.
• E-commerce Bias: Favor direct-to-consumer for faster learning and nimbleness.
• “You’ll Know When”: The scariest moment is when staying part-time seems riskier than going full-time—that’s the inflection point.
  • “When it starts to feel like doing this part time is riskier, that's when you know.” – Guy Raz (44:10)

---

5. Founders' Reflections—If You Could Go Back

Timestamps: 45:47–47:37

• Ignorance as Advantage:
  "I'm glad that we went a bit ignorant and we didn't know what we didn't know… it allowed us to make the right decisions to build it the way we built it." – Rashid Ali (46:11)
• Patience & Perspective:
  "It's just being patient… it's never just linear. We're either, you know, having a terrible day or an amazing day, and there's nothing in between." – Pete Maldonado (47:04)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Handling Recall/Trust:
  “It felt like the world was ending… But… we have to have processes, we have to have controls in place… Now… we have new processes to make sure it won’t happen again.”
  – Rashid Ali (05:01)

• On Expansion Anxiety:
  “There is that feeling of, are we ready? Are we not?… This conversation gives me confidence… I have nothing else to lose.”
  – Yadi Deres (18:16)

• On Retail Dreams vs. Reality:
  “Getting into the retailer is honestly the easiest part… It’s staying and performing.”
  – Rashid Ali (27:19)

• On When to Go Full-Time:
  “When it starts to feel like doing this part time is riskier, that's when you know… You will know that. That will be clear to you.”
  – Guy Raz (44:10)

• On Building in a Niche:
  “…small communities… what seem to be niche, but actually they're much bigger than people realize.”
  – Guy Raz (44:45)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Protein Trends & Crisis Management: 02:27–07:34
• Caller 1: Empanadas Expansion Dilemma: 07:52–19:12
• Caller 2: Pie Maker Wants Retail Breakthrough: 19:52–30:13
• Caller 3: Going Full-Time with Niche Brand: 30:52–44:38
• Founders’ Retrospective Wisdom: 45:47–47:37

---

Episode Tone & Style

Warm, relatable, encouraging, candid. The guests and host don’t sugarcoat the pains of entrepreneurship, but deliver empathy and optimism through realism and actionable advice.

---

Summary Takeaways

• Act with integrity in crisis—brand trust is built on transparency.
• Growth should be thoughtful: prove replicability, manage complexity, and don’t scale at the expense of core viability.
• Retail distribution requires a data-driven story and strong local advocates.
• Entrepreneurial leaps are deeply personal: assess risks, runway, and your real “why.”
• Sometimes, not knowing all the hurdles at the start is a gift—patience and adaptability are everything.

---

For more founder stories and advice, check out [the original Chomps interview](LINK TO EPISODE) and subscribe to Guy Raz’s newsletter for ongoing insights.

Transcript

[Guy Raz]

This episode is brought to you in partnership with Airbnb. One of the coolest things I did last year was take my family to Berlin. We explored the city, ate incredible food, and soaked up the history. And one of the things that made the trip so special was the home we booked on Airbnb. We had a beautiful apartment with big windows, a full kitchen, and we were walking distance from everything we wanted to see. It didn't feel like we were visiting, it felt like we were living there. And that made the trip so amazing. And when you take your own vacation, that's actually a great time to host your home on Airbnb. Your swanky art collection and handy kitchen gadgets might be just what someone else needs to feel right at home on their next trip. Plus, your earnings from hosting could help offset the cost of your next trip. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host. Hello and welcome to the advice line on How I Built this Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-12986. Send us a 1 minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And you can also send us a voice [e-mail] and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for [e-mail] or on substack and we'll put all of this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. This week I'm joined by Pete Maldonado and Rashid Ali, co founders of the grass fed meat stick brand Chomps. Pete, Rashid, great to have you guys back on the show.

[Pete Maldonado]

Thank you for having us.

[Rashid Ali]

Yeah, thanks for having us.

[Guy Raz]

You were first on the show in 2023 and as always, to anyone listening, if you haven't heard that story, we'll put a link to it in the episode description. It's an awesome story that eventually led to this amazing brand Chomps. Pete, you actually came back onto the show for advice line. So it's not your first time here. Rashid, welcome. The advice line on. Thanks for coming on.

[Rashid Ali]

Yeah, thank you.

[Guy Raz]

Before we get to our callers, I want to ask you guys a couple of questions. We're in a protein world today. It seems like people are putting protein in water and yogurt, ice cream. I'm seeing protein everywhere. You guys have been in the protein business for a long time. And every trend I'm reading, every sort of forecast is saying the protein market is just going to expand and boom and grow. So tell me a little bit about. You guys are both leaders in this category, but also riding a wave too, guy.

[Rashid Ali]

I think we're on the right side of a big trend. But like you said, we've been at this for a while and we think like at some point with any trend, there will be consumer fatigue. Like sometimes internally we talk about like the protein ification of everything. You mentioned water and ice cream and popcorn and so chocolate. Exactly. And so chomps is winning on the current momentum behind protein. But we're gonna win on the other side when folks get a little bit fatigued on it. But at the end of the day, I think there's a lot of room for additional protein in folks diets, especially convenient natural sources. And chomps is that solve for our consumers?

[Pete Maldonado]

You know, listen, this is a cultural shift. This is not a fad. People are changing the way they're dieting and eating and they're educating themselves and that's not going away. Right. And so we always knew protein was people needed more protein in their diets when we started this 13 years ago. That's why we're here. But we never anticipated GLP1s and doctors all over the place telling their patients, you need to eat more protein and it's more protein per calorie. Right. And this is. It's a wave for us for sure.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. I want to talk to you guys about last year because you faced a challenge last year. And I'll just kind of give some background, which is nobody found it, but there was a possibility that one batch was contaminated with a bit of metal. And this is something that is not common, but it can happen in a manufacturing process. There's metal equipment. There's all kinds of metal that food goes through. And very rarely a tiny piece of metal could chip off from a grinder or something and end up in a product. You guys found out about it. Nobody saw metal in their chomps, but it was a possibility. And you had to recall just tons and tons of products which I Imagine was a really, was a low point for you guys last year. Can you talk a little bit about just how that, you know, like just how you kind of handle that?

[Rashid Ali]

It was one of the hardest times in the business really just figuring out how to react. And I'll say it was an isolated incident exactly to what you said. We did an internal investigation and identified one of our seven facilities on one packaging line at an evening shift on a Friday where something seemed off. So to avoid any risk, we expanded the scope quite significantly and did a pretty large scale recall. It was painful. Like it felt like the world was ending even though it was so isolated. I mean like at the end of the day, Chomps is mine and Pete's baby. We started this from nothing and it's here because of our consumers. So you think about like the potential risk of Chomps putting any of our consumers at risk. We were not going to do that. So we went through the process and in the end we didn't find any metal. Right. There was no adverse reactions. Thankfully no one got hurt. We got through it and it was tough. Like I always say what I tell the team, one recall is one too many. Right. It's not acceptable. We can be better. We have to have processes, we have to have controls in place. But now I can say with complete confidence that we have handled it, we've got through it. And I think the organization infrastructure is far stronger because we did say we can get tighter here, here and here. And now we have new processes to make sure that it won't happen again.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, I mean the way, you know, it reminds me of Jenny's Splendid ice cream. She had a recall early on in that brand and the way she handled it was so same way, you know, instantly there was, nothing was confirmed but it was like simply because of the possibility they recalled their ice cream. It cost them millions of dollars and consumers really appreciated that, that preemption and that, you know, sort of over correction. And at the end of the day, you know, not only did it not hurt the business, but the business just grew exponentially. And I imagine, you know, you had a similar reaction from your customers but it, I imagine it cost you a.

[Pete Maldonado]

Lot of money, a painful amount of money.

[Rashid Ali]

It did, yeah. And it's still, it's still tbd as far as the ultimate exposure. Just at the end of the day we, when we were going through it, the cost or expense never crossed our mind. Right. The goal was to remove any consumer risk, any product risk and make sure we make the right decision. Long Term decision. So, like, yes, it was a material cost. We're still kind of weeding through the total impact, but no regret.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, it sounds like you guys handled that really, really well. All right, what do you guys say? Let's bring in our first caller. Shall we do it?

[Rashid Ali]

Let's go.

[Guy Raz]

All right, let's go. Let's bring our first caller. Welcome to the advice line. You are on with the co founders of Chomps. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business, please.

[Yadi Deres]

Hi, guy, Pete and Rashid, I really appreciate you having me here today. My name is Yadi Deres. I am the co founder of Yachty's Artisanal Empanada here in New Paltz, New York.

[Guy Raz]

Awesome. Welcome to the show. Yadi and Yachty's Empanadas. Assuming you make empanadas, do you sell them in stores and grocery stores? Tell me about the business.

[Yadi Deres]

Sure. So Yachtys Empanadas really started. I was a formal teacher for 23 years or so, but food has always been a passion. So I come from a Latin culture. Empanadas is just something that I grew up eating as a childhood favorite. And as it became something trendy and I realized that culturally it was catching on, I honestly couldn't find an authentic empanada anywhere. And everywhere we try empanadas, they were either greasy, not freshly made. They didn't have enough filling. I felt like empanada was really quickly becoming like a quick fast food.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Yadi Deres]

And so I really wanted to elevate a street food into something that you feel good about eating, that's made with fresh ingredients, where we're not compromising the quality and the flavor. And so that's really where it all started.

[Guy Raz]

I love it. So you were a teacher and when did you start this business? When did you. Did you do you left your teaching career to start this business?

[Yadi Deres]

I sure did. So I thought for 23 years and in 2021 decided that I will resign and I would start the business right from my kitchen. And so for about a year, we focused on just selling to coworkers and friends in schools. And then from there we landed in a commercial kitchen. Did that for a little bit. We ended up starting farmer's market pop ups events. We then bought a food truck in 2023.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Yadi Deres]

And from the food truck we landed at SUNY New Polsa. The opportunity came at the university there. At the university there.

[Guy Raz]

So you opened a brick and mortar space or a physical space on the campus there.

[Yadi Deres]

So I think that's. So while it is a space that we have, we. We started our first location was we. August of 2024. We opened at the far end of campus inside a small convenience store. So previous to that, we were making the production from the commercial kitchen, but when the opportunity came in to go on campus, it wasn't approved for us to be producing from the share space. And so the compromise was for us to produce right from their campus, but at a hefty fee.

[Guy Raz]

Got it. Okay, so you. Now you have a. You sell most of your empanadas on the SUNY New Paltz campus now?

[Yadi Deres]

I do.

[Guy Raz]

And tell me a little bit about. About your sales. How you guys. How did you do last year?

[Yadi Deres]

So the first year we did, we. From day one, our sales were really good. We were doing averaging about 1500 a day on daily sales right from day one. By the end of that semester, they had moved us into a bigger location, centrally located on campus because we were doing so well. And within a week there, we had double our sales. Our sales are currently and have been now for a whole year, on average of $3,000 daily.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Yadi Deres]

That does go up some days to 3,500 on really good days. But average, we're making three grand a day.

[Guy Raz]

So three grand a day? I mean, that's. That's pretty great. I mean, you're maybe doing 700,000 or more a year in sales.

[Yadi Deres]

Correct.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. Amazing. Okay, so before we dive in further, what is your question for us?

[Yadi Deres]

We're wondering at what point do we do we think about a second location? Brick and Mortal? Since right now, technically, while I have this location, it's not really hours. Do I move into other colleges and really duplicate what we have into other schools? Do I go back to distribution? So is that that sort of like road? And what do we do?

[Guy Raz]

All right, so sales are strong at this location on the SUNY New Paltz campus. You're wondering whether you should open a second location or focus on distribution or a combination. But, Pete, Rashid, I want to bring you guys in. Thoughts or questions for Yadi?

[Pete Maldonado]

Yeah, Yadi. Nice to meet you.

[Zachary Bonder]

This is Pete.

[Pete Maldonado]

Yeah, you're speaking my language here. I grew up eating a ton of empanadas. I'm Colombian, and my grandmother used to make them all the time. My mom makes them. Now it's the only thing I ask for for my birthday, which is coming up at the end of this month. So I'm very excited to get my batch of empanadas. But. Okay, so my first question is about, you know, labor and management at this, this first location that you have. Are you. Is this thing running itself? Like, why are you here talking to us? Is there somebody there selling empanadas?

[Yadi Deres]

So it really is now. So when it started, it was really my husband and I and my children. So it was really family working around the clock, 18, 20 hours a day. My husband will leave his job, go there. Now we have a team of nine people and I have a manager that's being trained now. Family also is really trying to keep it family as much as we can. And so, no, I don't have to be there now for Yaris and Panadas to. To run.

[Guy Raz]

That's great.

[Pete Maldonado]

Yeah. So it sounds like from like a product standpoint, you know exactly how to replicate this in terms of equipment and all those things. Recipe, it's, you know, it's all pretty much replica. You know, you could just do this over and over again. I think, you know, for, for me, it would be like, you know, management and labor pool would be the biggest question marks.

[Rashid Ali]

And then it would be like, you know, real estate. I would say real estate. That's the other question is like, do you have, do you have a unique situation in the current environment where as you start thinking about secondary locations or scaling, are you going to incur an additional cost? So like, Yadi, are you current? Like, are you currently profitable in the, in the existing, like, at the 700k? Like, you are profitable?

[Yadi Deres]

We are. I've worked with a consultant to help us figure out the. Where our costs should be in terms of food costs, employee costs, payroll. I think the only concern and, well, one of the concerns is that with a college campus, while we do really well those months that we're open, it is closed during the summer. It is closed for a whole month for the winter. So we have all these breaks. And what I found last summer is that while we made great money and there were still profit, I now have a period of four months where I'm not making any money. So that's, that's where we are right now.

[Pete Maldonado]

Yadi, the, the seasonality aspect of working at with colleges, that makes a lot of sense. But then you mentioned before the food truck idea. I think that's the solve. I mean, if you have a food truck and you could have a campus that allows you to have space somewhere on campus, you can hit that target market. And then as soon as school's out, you go move that truck somewhere else, where it's going to be, you know, get Some foot traffic.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. I guess you answered the first question that Pete had, which is it sounds like this location can run without you on site. Right. This existing location. And so is there a person on your team who could potentially run a second location if you opened it tomorrow?

[Yadi Deres]

Yes.

[Guy Raz]

Great. And I think that the other question is. And it speaks to this idea of real estate. Right. You are in New Paltz, New York. I guess you're between New York City and Albany, right? I am. And New York City is a tough. I mean that's challenging. But I think based on what we know from franchise businesses that have been on the show, their expansion strategy usually begins with one location within 45 miles. So within an hour or so drive. So you can handle that second location to kind of test market it.

[Yadi Deres]

We've actually looked into Connecticut, where we're really beginning to do our research and investigate. Connecticut. We like Connecticut because from New Paul's to Connecticut, we're less than an hour away.

[Guy Raz]

New Haven's got students. Right.

[Yadi Deres]

It's got plenty of colleges. And so I think it's really, really trying to figure out do we just continue this path of colleges since it's a niche and seem to be working and. Or do I just think about opening some sort of a kitchen, my own sort of commercial kitchen with maybe a little bit of a front store where I can maybe combine both.

[Rashid Ali]

I like that latter idea. But if you pair it with think about delivery, like it seems like such a portable grade item. If you think of like doordash or Uber eats that option out of a.

[Guy Raz]

Kitchen, like so true.

[Rashid Ali]

So scalable.

[Guy Raz]

Yes.

[Rashid Ali]

And then maybe you have a second arm where you have somebody that's focused on maybe within a 20 mile radius, bookstores or coffee shops, like you're morning dropping off the empanadas during that. Like there's other opportunities where you can kind of be creative about how to scale and get as many empanadas in people's mouths as possible.

[Pete Maldonado]

Yeah, yeah. That's a commissary model. It's very similar to like what the bagel industry up in New York area. It's the same. Same exact thing. So they make a ton of bagels and you deliver them, you know, daily or whatever to all the bagel stores all over the place. You could do exactly that. And whether you're serving your own food trucks or various locations that are like Guy said in, it's got to be close enough to where it makes sense.

[Yadi Deres]

Absolutely. And I think that that sort of solidify that, that idea that Distribution is where it is. The cost of renting, the cost of the overhead of expenses, of training, of employee. While I enjoy it and really is so gratifying to see the students come in and people enjoying a meal. It is a lot. Whereas when we started and we were doing distribution, you make empanadas. They. I really didn't have to work so hard at getting people to get them.

[Guy Raz]

But, you know, empanadas, it's not like there's an empanada shop on every corner. Like, there's a burger joint every corner. Right. But it's got the potential to be something really interesting, especially if you're finding success in a college town. And so it does make sense to me that you're looking at a place like New Haven, where you've got a lot of students. It's not that expensive, and you could generate a lot of buzz around it. Like, oh, hey, I heard, you know, Yachty's empanadas are coming to New Haven. You know, especially if you work with, like, local alternative weeklies or the Yale newspaper, whatever local websites or food writers are out there, and you kind of build buzz, it could be a really interesting place to be.

[Yadi Deres]

I think you're very right, and I see that in our future. As always, there is that feeling of, are we ready? Are we not? But having this conversation today with all three of you really does give me that confidence and the trust and believe that if it's now or never, just what can I have? Nothing to lose. I quit my job four years ago, and I'm here. So moving forward now and taking that next leap of faith and going to the next level, I got nothing else to lose.

[Guy Raz]

All right, Rasheed, final thoughts? Any final thoughts? Riyadhi?

[Rashid Ali]

I'm hungry. Like, I don't know why we did this so late in the day.

[Guy Raz]

I'm so hungry. I want an empanada.

[Yadi Deres]

I'm sure somehow, some way, you guys get some amazing empanadas. I tell you, once you try them, you'll know what I'm saying. Talking about.

[Guy Raz]

I believe you. Yachty Reese, founder of Yachty's Empanadas. Thanks for calling in. Good luck. Keep us posted.

[Yadi Deres]

Thank you so much for having me today. Thank you.

[Guy Raz]

We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz. Stick around. You're listening to the advice line on how I built this lab. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. My guests today are Chomps co founders Pete Maldonado and Rashid Ali. Pete, Rashid, you guys ready for the next call?

[Pete Maldonado]

Let's do it.

[Guy Raz]

Let's go. All right, let's bring in our next caller. Welcoming advice line. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

[Zachary Bonder]

Hi there, I'm Zachary. I'm a co founder of Noble Pies. Our bakery is located in the Hudson Valley. We make both sweet and savory pies with real ingredients and an all butter crust. In 2025, we officially launched our wholesale line and we have three retail stores outside of New York City and are launching our first New York city store in 2026.

[Guy Raz]

Awesome. Thanks for calling in. So Noble Pies, sweet and savory pies are based out of the Hudson Valley. How long have you been in the pie business?

[Zachary Bonder]

Yeah, our business started in 2008 unexpectedly when the financial crisis hit. My family owned a horse business and overnight we pretty much lost our business. Horses are a high commodity item and luxury. So my mother went back to her roots and she resurfaced some old recipes for my great grandmother. And she dropped off me, my brother and my sister at the local orchard to pick a bunch of fruit. We brought the fruit back home, we baked about 50 pies and we set up a little picnic table on the side of the road of our farm. And literally within an hour, we sold out of pies and it turned into an every weekend business. And now we're here.

[Guy Raz]

Wow. So tell me a little bit about the business. Where, where do you primarily sell your pies?

[Zachary Bonder]

Today, most of our business is out of our retail stores and farmers markets. And our main wholesale account is Fresh Direct.

[Guy Raz]

FreshDirect. Okay. And how. And tell me a little bit about your, your, your sales. What do you guys expect to do or what'd you do last year?

[Zachary Bonder]

Yeah. So between our three stores in 2025, we did about 2.2 million in sales.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Zachary Bonder]

And our first year of wholesale with FreshDirect, we did about $200,000.

[Guy Raz]

And these are frozen pies or fresh pies you're selling.

[Zachary Bonder]

So these are fresh frozen pies, single serving, sweet and savory.

[Guy Raz]

Got it. Okay. Before we bring our chomsko vendors in, tell me what question you have for us.

[Zachary Bonder]

ECRI so since we just launched our wholesale line, we feel like we're ready for larger retailers like Whole Foods and Target. I've applied to their regional supplier programs and did not have any luck in the past few years. So I'm looking for new tools, strategies, and approaches that work in today's market to break through.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. All right, makes sense. Awesome. I want to bring Rasheed and Pete in, guys. So Nobel PI's been doing. They've been doing this for a while. They've got clear track record. What do you think? Any thoughts, questions for Zachary?

[Pete Maldonado]

Hey, Zachary, this is Pete. Great to meet you. Yeah, great job, by the way.

[Guy Raz]

This is.

[Pete Maldonado]

You said 2.2 million. I couldn't believe it. I was like, okay, that's great. In terms of scaling from here, what's your capacity and how much could. How many pies could you make in a day or a week or however you're looking at it?

[Zachary Bonder]

That's a great question. So we can put out about 10,000 pies per week in the facility that we're in now. And within six months, we can triple that with some modifications of our bakery and a little bit of expansion.

[Pete Maldonado]

And then in terms of distribution, you're shipping these or are you hand delivering these to the stores, or how is that working?

[Zachary Bonder]

Yep. So right now we're self distributing so that we can stay as lean as possible. It allows us to reinvest as much as we can into our business so that when it's time to pull the trigger with that bigger account, we can be ready.

[Rashid Ali]

Shelf life, how long do these. I get that they're frozen, but I'm just curious from a shelf life perspective, because obviously when you layer in distribution, you're adding days.

[Zachary Bonder]

It's about four months.

[Guy Raz]

Zachary, a question for you. Because frozen pizzas have been. I mean, that's been completely redone. Right. There's all kinds of interesting frozen pizzas, but frozen pie hasn't been upgraded in the same way. So what is the argument you make that these pies are better than what might be available right now from the, I don't know, Sara Lee or whoever's in the Safeway or even the Whole Foods freezer section.

[Zachary Bonder]

So at Noble Pies, we're so true to what is actually in our pies. Our pies are made with an all butter crust. Our filling is made from scratch in small, smaller batches, but, you know, can be made in larger batches. And we advertise how few ingredients are in our pies. You know, when you go to the grocery store now, those product labels are pretty populated with the ingredients. So that's our marketing and branding point. And also the fact that we actually try to source as much as we can from New York State. So we also brand. You're getting a taste of New York in the Hudson Valley because we have tons of farms here. It's a beautiful place.

[Guy Raz]

So you're making the argument to a buyer that you are the upgrade from what's, whatever's out there right now, that it's unlike pizza, which has a bunch of options. There aren't that many options in pies. You're that upgrade. But I think, and Pete and Rashid, you guys can speak to this, which is the reality of buyers for these big chains, whether it's Whole Foods or Target or whatever is they don't always discover brands. It's not always their job. Their job is actually to manage risk. Right. And to focus on velocity. You're basically, you want to show that by bringing this product on they are de risked in a sense. Is that, is that a fair argument, Rasheed and Pete?

[Pete Maldonado]

It's absolutely. You also want to be able to have a good sell story. And I think one of the stories that Rashid and I were able to get with chomps was from the data that we had was incrementality, meaning we're bringing new customers to the set. You need to be able to find a way to tell that story to the buyer because they need to know that you're not just going to be cannibalizing. If he's going to take somebody else out, another brand out and put you in and sales stay flat, what's the point?

[Guy Raz]

Right.

[Pete Maldonado]

So he's got to figure out, okay, I'm going to put them in and they're going to bring new customers to this set that were never shopping here before and grow the category. So like that's the name of the game.

[Josh Schrenko]

Yeah.

[Rashid Ali]

And makes sense I'd add because you have a four month shelf life. Like that's, I assume that's somewhat low in the, for I don't know, frozen that well. But I would assume four months is probably a little bit on the lower side. So like you have to prove that you have strong velocities, that the product will turn and you further have to approve your repeat rate that not only are you going to get that first customer in that they will come back and buy it again.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, Zachary, you have that data, you're going to have six to 12 months of that velocity data. You could focus on one SKU. You don't need to show the data for all the products because at the end of the day it's the, it's the store manager who's going to be your biggest advocate. Like if you can get a Store manager to be your advocate with Whole Foods, that's going to have more weight than, you know, you kind of cold calling them. Right.

[Zachary Bonder]

I've always wondered if that still works in this day and age of Whole Foods. And I'm so glad that you're answering that question for me because I haven't walked in and talked to a store manager just yet. So I'm definitely going to try doing that.

[Guy Raz]

I think those are the people you.

[Rashid Ali]

Want on your side and like, exactly.

[Guy Raz]

From.

[Rashid Ali]

To answer your initial question, I think it's going to sound odd, but like getting into the retailer is honestly the easiest part of the process. It's. It's staying and performing. So like, you know, you've been at this for a while. It seems like your product is differentiated, there's something there and it'll succeed in retail. But you, you're going to succeed if you can have some focus. Like pick not just Whole Foods, but you should do the northeast region or just a pocket of stores and keep it really focused and build the story and grow over time. Because the problem is right now you're self distributing. Once you introduce distribution into your business, it's a level of complexity and cost that you don't fully understand. And then you introduce trade requirements which you currently don't have. And it's like this, the slippery slope where retail sounds great, but sometimes it's just a feather and a cap or a vanity metric. Like if you have a model that works in your retail stores and the farmer's market and Fresh Direct, where it's a direct program, that's great. But you got to continue to grow depth in those channels and then pick one more channel and grow that and then pick another. And that's what we did. At Choms. We say we're a 13 year overnight success. I mean, it took us a long time before we approached the targets of the world right before we went to the Club channel. Because if you go too quick, too early, it can really start unraveling and introduce so much complexity and cost where it can materially challenge the business.

[Zachary Bonder]

That's great advice because I always feel like I'm a little fish in the sea. And you know, it's true. I should just stay focused on those first customers and continue to serve them and get that feedback. And again, also watch the velocity of the repeat purchasing in the store.

[Pete Maldonado]

Zachary, are you doing any E Commerce, direct to consumer or anything like that?

[Zachary Bonder]

We actually used to sell on QVC network. We did for about two years. We don't do it now because shipping costs are so high. But we are looking into doing E Commerce again in the future.

[Pete Maldonado]

Yeah, I feel like I get these frozen pizzas from Gino Zeiss from people in Chicago. These other, like, I know it's got to cost an astronomical amount, but they're doing it for like holidays or seasonal stuff. So it might be something for you to look into, especially if you have people are just kind of die hard fans of the brand and maybe even just reach out to them and kind of survey some of your customers if you have their contact info. But I would just try to find out from them. Like, would you ever buy these for a gift and just kind of start small with it and see if it works and then you might be able to scale out from there.

[Zachary Bonder]

That's great advice. Our email box gets flooded every. Every holiday with thousands of emails. Can you ship to California? Can you ship to Texas? So I will definitely do that.

[Guy Raz]

Awesome. Zachary Bonder, co owner of Noble Pies, thanks so much for calling in. Good luck.

[Zachary Bonder]

Thank you.

[Rashid Ali]

Thanks, Zachary.

[Guy Raz]

Appreciate it. All right, we're going to take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab. Foreign. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking your calls with Rashid Ali and Pete Maldonado of Chomps. Let's bring in our final caller. Welcome to the show.

[Josh Schrenko]

Hey, guys, before I introduce myself, I just want to say, longtime listener, first time caller.

[Guy Raz]

Awesome.

[Josh Schrenko]

Years and years. But I'm also a huge Chomps fan, so we have them piled up in our pantry at my house. So I'm fanboying out a little bit here. I'm going to be perfectly honest. My name is Josh Schrenko. I'm the co founder and president of Achigan brand and we are the official brand of smallmouth bass.

[Guy Raz]

Awesome. So tell me what you guys make. What do you sell?

[Josh Schrenko]

So we started with kind of the easiest thing that we could start with, which was apparel.

[Rashid Ali]

Okay.

[Guy Raz]

We apparel around the theme of smallmouth bass. Okay.

[Josh Schrenko]

Yes. Yeah, exactly. So quite niche. But we started doing apparel and to be honest, I don't want to get too much into it, but I started a podcast seven years ago and sort of found out there was a tribe in this, like, super nerdy corner of the fishing industry that I was super passionate about. And I was like, hey, I. I want to Work in the fishing industry for a living. And I was like, I'm just going to start my own thing. So I partnered with a couple of good friends of mine who are super talented artists and we started putting shirts and designs and hats and that sort of thing and put on a Shopify platform and you know, we, we been keeping it rolling.

[Guy Raz]

So see I love this. So there's their lifestyle brands around obviously golf and other, you know, sports and even fishing. You're focused on like a niche of niche smallmouth bass lifestyle brand. And what, what tell me like as I'm looking at your website now, it says for those who believe bronze, which is the color of the fish. Right. Can you explain the passion for like fishing for this particular fish? Is it just because they're available and they're or is it just. There's a particularly just thing about going for this kind of fish.

[Josh Schrenko]

Yeah. How much time do you got, guy? Because I could go on along. Smallmouth are awesome. So they one are native. So it's really cool to think like our, our brand is a chigen, which is the Algonquin word for smallmouth and that translates into one which fights. So they are super awesome fighters. So they jump really high. They're, they're kind of like the hip cool fish in bass fishing. Largemouth are a little bit like lazy. They don't like to move a lot. Smallmouth are like crazy. They are really fun, fun to catch.

[Zachary Bonder]

So.

[Guy Raz]

Right. And, and do you release them or do you eat them or both.

[Josh Schrenko]

So our we, we say this frequently. Well actually at the end of every podcast. Free the Fighter. So we are, we are advocating for conservation. So we definitely promote catch and release.

[Guy Raz]

Oh, that's cool. So you catch and release them. Wow. So really it's like about the sport. Okay, so you've got this apparel brand. You sell shirts. I'm on your website now. Shirts, hats, all around this project. Tell me a little bit about how the business is doing.

[Josh Schrenko]

Yeah, so we're in year. We just started year five. We have expanded into a couple different things. We run an online board game for fishermen and then we also just last spring we launched our first lure in our line of fishing lures which is kind of the, in our pipeline. That's the long term strategy is like build out a several skus of lures and then really start to look at getting that into retail, that sort of thing. We can't produce them fast enough. Inside of our, our small little office here. They sell too fast. So we're looking for a Contract manufacturer right now to do that. And we're also prototyping with the stuff we're making in house.

[Guy Raz]

Based on what you're selling right now, what'd you do in sales last year?

[Josh Schrenko]

So we just missed the hundred thousand dollar mark last year, which I was, that was a big goal of ours to hit that.

[Guy Raz]

That's still pretty great. And, and, and most of that is coming from hats and shirts.

[Josh Schrenko]

Yeah, the lures definitely are like a little bit of a hack because we can sell as many as we can make. But yeah, still the majority of our sales are apparel just because that's what most of our inventory is.

[Guy Raz]

Got it. All right, and before we dive in further, what's your question for us?

[Josh Schrenko]

Yeah, so I'm at a place in my business where I want to jump off and I want to do this full time. I have two kids and a wife and I'm not the, at the age or position in my life where I can eat ramen for two years. Right. So I have to like have some capital to work with to be able to do this. And it is, you know, you guys talk about cash flow. That's a huge, huge challenge. How like strategically, what path should I take to get to this full time because I have so many things I want to do. Like this is like I'm so passionate about this business and really just fishing in general.

[Guy Raz]

Josh, you said you're, you brought under 100 grand in sales last year. Just very briefly, what is your, what is your full time job? What's your day job?

[Josh Schrenko]

Yeah, I own a medical distribution company. So we sell to like orthopedic rehab equipment and we, we service the local like central Indiana and Louisville area.

[Rashid Ali]

So. Yeah.

[Guy Raz]

And you want to, ideally you'd want to focus entirely on this and you want to know when, I guess when to make that leap. All right, Pete, Rasheed, you guys, I'm sure I have a lot of thoughts on this. You started, I mean Pete, certainly you had all different kinds of businesses, real estate and, and that didn't work out and you know, and, and then you start this thing. Thoughts, questions, comments for Josh?

[Pete Maldonado]

Yeah, I'm going to let Rashid kick this one.

[Rashid Ali]

I think it's, it's a really interesting topic especially for Pete and I because we always joke around our partnership was not always great at the early days. And it's really because Pete went full time about four years into the business that was in 2016 and I went full time in 2018. So there was that two year time period where Pete was full time and I was part time. And I think ultimately the question I have, and you don't necessarily have to answer it, but it's something to think about and reflect is like you mentioned you're doing a hundred thousand, you mentioned you have a family, you mentioned you're not going to eat ramen. Right. So you have to start thinking about. It's like what do you need to support your life and at what point can you scale the business to get there. Right. And how much risk can you take and then how much risk can your partners take to run the business? So it's like those are, it's really kind of self reflection where you have to figure out what can you do to get there. And you have the entrepreneurial spirit as far as creative and ideation. But success is, I always found it's rooted in focus.

[Josh Schrenko]

Right.

[Rashid Ali]

And that's the hard part about it is trying to figure out you have an apparel business. But I looked at online and it looks like this isn't a, it's not like a functional apparel. Right. Where it's like technical gear for it's. Right. It's more, it's purely lifestyle. Right. But then you transition quickly into a purely functional lure side of the business. Right. Because you found a niche. So that's, that's where you try to think about is like take a step back to see like where do you want the brand to go ultimately and have a clear path to get there. And also one that can support your lifestyle. Right. And your family.

[Josh Schrenko]

Yeah. And I would say that it's a little bit of like a self fulfilling prophecy. Right. If you don't go full time with the business, it's not going to get where you want it to go. Unless you have a viral moment or you have this like breakthrough. Which for you guys that was the call from Trader Joe's. Right. Like you got a call and you're like, hey, like we got a million dollar po. Let's go figure out a way to fulfill it. Like I could keep doing this as and I'm content to do it for a little while longer. Like just kind of grinding it out and kind of waiting for something to happen. I'm more of a person that wants to make things happen though. And I am like, hey, do I need to raise some money? Which I have never done. And we have had people approach us, a lot of people asking to invest in this business and it's, I don't, I don't even know what I'm doing there. Just be Honest. Do I need to raise money? Right now? We're bootstrapping, so I'm funding it with my personal, you know, finances, which I haven't. I don't. It. It is profitable to the point where I don't have to keep putting money into it. But it's also, like, it's not. I'm not. I don't have a bunch of bankroll that I'm making to be able to reinvest in the business. We just kind of keep in doing what we're still doing.

[Pete Maldonado]

So, yeah, Josh, I think I'm going to maybe speak out of both sides of my mouth here because it's like, okay, you've got this really niche, niche audience, which is great. That's going to allow you to make an impact and build a brand within that audience for a small amount of money. That's exactly what Rasheed and I did within the CrossFit community back in the day. We had no money to do it, but we went door to door and basically did what we had to do to build a brand within that community. That's, that's, you know, and then we kind of were able to snowball from there and add other communities from there. But I think for me, like, you're. I'm looking at your, Your, your clothing, and then you have your, your lures. You have a lot of SKUs across the portfolio here. That's going to require a lot of capital. So it's like, okay, that's going to, if you pulled that back, you limit the size of the business. It's kind of like a, you know, but you have to figure out something. I think you need to focus now on what's going to generate the most revenue for you. So you could actually build this to a place where you could actually go full time and focus on it, if that's what you want to do. I'm guessing from a margin perspective, the lures make you more money than the apparel.

[Josh Schrenko]

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's what I think. Yeah.

[Pete Maldonado]

Little pieces of rubber.

[Josh Schrenko]

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, we'll. We'll always keep apparel just because I. That's, you know, it's free marketing, essentially, that produces revenue. But, yeah, I do think our future is in the lures. And then we have a couple other, like, just like, things in the pipeline that we've talked about doing that could be. Have a wider appeal that we could sell on, like some marketplaces like Amazon, that sort of thing.

[Rashid Ali]

And Josh, to your question, when you think about, like, you know, what signals that's Time to go full time. I think for us, you mentioned the Trader Joe's po, but it wasn't necessarily just the po. It was really around when we saw the sales performance and the repeat rate and we saw that the product was really working. Right. You mentioned the lures. You can't make them fast enough. You keep going out of stock. So like, obviously you have something there. Now what you need to figure out the unlock is like, how do you see what high is high? Right. How do you assess true demand? Because if you're going out of stock and you're running out, like you don't necessarily know what the ceiling is. It's like to me, you need to solve that and that's going to better understand, like, what is the potential. And then like you said, most of these technical brands provide a technical offering and they wrap it. Apparel is a value add. Right. And so I think you've already proven you have cool, fresh designs that are going to attract. You need to create that anchor technical solve which you're circling right now. But once you figure out the unlock and how do you scale it, I think that's going to answer your question on are you ready to go? Like, and then, and then think about retail, then think about this. But like, look at Pete and I love E commerce. We love direct to consumer. Like, it's such a great way to scale quickly and learn your product and grow. But I think you're close. I think my, my read is like, figure out that unlock on how to scale the lures faster.

[Josh Schrenko]

Yeah. And I'll add to our brand is like, we don't. We haven't paid a dime in advertising. Like, we don't. It's a hundred percent organic. It's word of mouth. We use Instagram. That's kind of our like growth engine. But it's all organic posting. So I feel like when, if I had a little bit of capital to work with, if I had more time, I could pour gas on this fire and I have a path there. It's just like, it's, it's a tough way to, you know, it's a tough way to jump into it. Scary. Honestly.

[Pete Maldonado]

You have, you have two other co founders, correct? Is that. I saw that on the website.

[Josh Schrenko]

Yes.

[Pete Maldonado]

Yeah. So you know, Rashid and I know I went full time first. I think we were doing in like the 4 or 500,000 range and then Rasheed didn't come on until we were doing like 20 million. So it was a big, like big gap. It was like maybe a couple of Years later.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Pete Maldonado]

But you could find, you could figure out like, you know, what works for you guys. Maybe, maybe one of you guys go full time and the other two are just kind of, you know, work your other job and then play more of a support role or maybe take, you know, it's like shift work or something like that. But this thing definitely needs full time attention if you actually want it to scale.

[Guy Raz]

I think that's great advice. I mean, I also think, you know, at the end of the day you will know when it's time. Right. Right now you're sort of worried about. You mentioned you don't want to eat ramen and you know, you can't live on the salary and support a family. But when it starts to feel like doing this part time is riskier, that's when, you know, when you start to say to yourself, actually it's safer for me to jump into this full time. You will know that. That will be clear to you.

[Josh Schrenko]

Guy. You always have sage advice. I always hear that from you after these interviews.

[Guy Raz]

Well, it's an awesome opportunity. Cause you've tapped into something clearly there's a lot of passion around and you know, there doesn't seem to be a lifestyle, real lifestyle brand around smallmouth, you know, bass. So it's a, it's a cool idea and I, you know, I just, I, I think it, I think you could, you could really run with it. So, so good luck.

[Josh Schrenko]

Thank you guys. I really appreciate you having me on.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Josh Renko co founder of Achigen Good luck. Keep us posted.

[Pete Maldonado]

Thanks, Josh.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, it's, I mean it really like, it is amazing to me how there are all of these and we hear about a lot on the show, these small communities, like these niche, what seem to be niche, but actually they're much bigger than people realize. All these people who fish for a certain kind of fish or who are interested in a very particular kind of watch or golf club or whatever it is. And people are building micro brands around these communities which are becoming interesting businesses.

[Pete Maldonado]

Yeah, it's awesome. And it's also interesting to kind of think through. But like nowadays with AI the way it is, like, because a lot of them were talking about like how do I scale and how I build a team and all of these things. And this is something that Rashid and I like. Back in the day we didn't have access to AI. It was all about getting scrappy and using third parties. I wish I had better advice for them because we don't even know, we don't even know how to use that. But I hear so many times people talking about one person running an entire organization using AI and automation, and it's amazing.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah, absolutely. Guys, before I let you go, if I. And I. Pete, actually, I think you answered this question last time we brought you on. Maybe you'll have a different answer now, but I'll start with Rasheed. If you could go back to when you guys started chomps and knowing what you know now about the business and how to, you know, and. And what you've learned, what would have been helpful for you to know, you know, 13 years ago, when you guys launch this. This brand?

[Rashid Ali]

Huh? That's an interesting question. I mean, I think. I believe it's fortunate that we didn't know what we know now. I think it is honestly one of the reasons we're here today. Like, we had a lot of folks in our ear giving us advice, but we just did what felt right. I think. I'm glad that we went a little bit blind and ignorant, and I think it allowed us to make the right decisions to build it the way we built it. Yeah. We still have a lot more work to do, but I think we've built. We have a lot of momentum. We're in the right place, in the right category with a fantastic product, brand, and team. So I don't know. I'm glad we went a bit ignorant and we didn't know what we didn't know, and I think it allowed us to get to where we are.

[Pete Maldonado]

Yeah. So I would say, like, it's just being patient.

[Josh Schrenko]

Right.

[Pete Maldonado]

With time and, you know, staying focused, things will work out. Essentially, we've been on this chomp. We call it the chomp roller coaster, because it's never just linear.

[Guy Raz]

Right.

[Pete Maldonado]

We're just. We are either, you know, in having a terrible day or an amazing day, and there's nothing in between. That's kind of been the entire ride since. For the past 13 years. So I would say, you know, it's being patient and working through issues, weather and. And by the way, not getting complacent when things are going great and rosy because it's gonna. Like, challenges will come your way. So just be ready for it.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah. Pete Maldonado, Rashid Ali, thanks so much for coming back on, guys.

[Rashid Ali]

We appreciate it. Thanks for having us.

[Pete Maldonado]

Thanks, guy. Appreciate it, man.

[Guy Raz]

And by the way, if you guys haven't heard Pete and Rashid's original How I Built this episode, go back and check it out. It's a great, terrific episode. You will learn so much. What put A link to that in the show notes. And here's one of my favorite moments from that interview. What was their purchase order for?

[Pete Maldonado]

1.1 million sticks. It was larger than the previous year altogether in a single po.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Rashid Ali]

And I'm thinking how this is. I was like, this is not what we discussed. This is way more than what what we had we discussed. And so I was like, give me a second. So I like, I go in my room, I build my spreadsheet, I'm calculating the total, like, what does it actually look like? So I'm like, pete, we need, I don't know, it's like one point something million to be able to fund this. And so we then had to figure out, like, how we were going to get the money to even fill this po.

[Guy Raz]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for [e-mail] or on substack. And of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice [e-mail] or call us at 1-800-433-1298. Leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Kerry Thompson with music composed by Ramtina Rabloui. It was edited by John Isabella with engineering from Jimmy Keeley. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Elaine Coates, Neva Grant, Nora Gill, Casey Herman, Chris Masini, Catherine Cipher, and Rommel Wood. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.