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- [00:00]
Guy Raz
Wondery subscribers can listen to How I built this early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Lately you may have been hearing about a serious but rare heart condition called attr Cardiac Amyloidosis or attrcm. Because symptoms can be similar to other heart conditions, it may take time to be diagnosed, but learning more about ATTRCM and a treatment called Atrube, also known as Acharamidis, could be important for you or a loved one. Atrube is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with ATTRCM to reduce death and hospitalization due to heart issues. In a study, people taking Atrubey saw an impact on their health related quality of life and 50% fewer hospitalizations due to heart issues than people who didn't take Atrube, giving you more chances to do what you love with who you love. Tell your doctor if you are pregnant, plan to become pregnant or are breastfeeding and about the medications you take. The most common side effects were mild and included to diarrhea and abdominal pain. If you have attrcm, talk to your cardiologist about a Truby or visit attruby.com, that's a T T R U B Y.com to learn more.
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This episode is brought to you by.
- [01:18]
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Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this Lab.
- [03:34]
I'm Guy Raz.
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This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges.
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Each week I'm joined by a legendary.
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Founder, a former guest on the show.
- [03:43]
Who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you.
- [03:46]
Need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show.
- [03:50]
Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a 1 minute message that.
- [03:55]
Tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And you can also send us a.
- [04:00]
Voice memo@hibtid.wondery.com and make sure to tell us how to reach you.
- [04:06]
And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free@guyraz.com or on substack and we'll put all of this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it.
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Joining me this week is Randy Hetrick. He's the founder and inventor of trx.
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The Full Body Resistance Strap Exercise system. Randy, it's great to have you back on the show.
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Randy Hetrick
Thanks for coming on, Guy. It is so nice to see you and great to be back. Thanks for having me.
- [04:38]
Guy Raz
It's awesome to have you. You were first on the show back in 2017. This is the early days of how I built this. And just to remind people of your story, you were a Navy seal. You were stationed in Southeast Asia for kind of grounded for a while and you and your buddies were kind of getting frustrated because you weren't able to work out and you had this idea to use like an old Jiu Jitsu belt which you accidentally kind of brought with you to do pull ups or I guess upper body work. So you throw it over a bathroom door and boom. I mean, you start using it for resistance training. That was the genesis of trx.
- [05:10]
Randy Hetrick
It's a pretty great story, isn't it? And it happens to be true. So yeah, those straps had pretty long legs as it Turns out.
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Guy Raz
And it's just, it's so wild to me that, you know, you happen to have that belt and it happened to have that idea and then it became this kind of legendary product. Anyone? For anyone? Any of you who haven't heard that episode? Because it's in the early days of How I Built this, you gotta check it out. We will put a link to it in the episode description. Randy, before we get to today's callers, it's been a few years since we last spoke. Right. 2017, and a lot has happened for you for TRX. I think two years after we spoke, you sold a controlling interest in TRX. That was in 2019. But then a bunch of other stuff happened.
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Just bring us up to date on.
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What'S been going on in your life since you last spoke on the show.
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Randy Hetrick
Well, it is funny when you think about it. That, man, we were eight years ago. Where'd that eight years go, guy? I'm not, you know, we packed in a lot in there, but yeah, I sold the business to some private equity guys and, you know, let's just say it was not a match made in heaven. We, after a couple of years, decided, all right, I had to go and, you know, pursue my bliss elsewhere. So I did and I started a company called Outfit, which is Outdoor Mobile Fitness. And, you know, just as I was getting that thing up and rolling, it turned out that the opportunity came around to buy back my original baby. And I went out and found a good buddy, my good pal Jack Daly. And we hatched a plot to buy a TRX out of what was kind of a troubled situation, let's just say awesome. And so we ended up, you know, I ended up with a turnaround and a startup which is almost more fun than one guy should have. But it's been an incredible ride and TRX is doing great again.
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Guy Raz
And Outfit is this, as you say, it's a mobile exercise company. Basically it's a gym in a van. And it's kind of a franchise model.
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Randy Hetrick
Right.
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Guy Raz
It's designed for. Is that right? People can buy a franchise and then run it as a gym wherever they live.
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Randy Hetrick
Yeah, well, we're just getting going on the franchising aspect because I felt at the beginning I needed to really understand the ins and outs of this business, which is pretty path breaking, if you will. You're not in the gym. The gym. Think of the gym as a rolling, kind of a rolling storage unit full of functional training gear that comes out of. Out of the van. The group fitness class goes on, in parks, you know, parking lots, beach parking lots, like beautiful places outdoors. And then in 10 minutes it sets up and tears down and drives away. And ultimately I'm very excited about it as an opportunity for veterans coming out of service because the cost of buy in and the, and the operating costs are so much lower without brick and mortar. And as you know, I'm pretty passionate about the veteran space. Two groups of people that I really love, veterans and trainers.
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Guy Raz
Yeah, it makes so much sense. I mean, I use like every time I do bike repair now I get one of those mobile bike repair shops comes to my house and everything's in that van. And we're talking about light equipment. Right. Straps and functional equipment. You're not like pulling out a treadmill out of the van or like a peloton.
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Randy Hetrick
No, exactly. You don't have fixed overhead that's anywhere near what you would experience in a brick and mortar. But you have quite a big capacity and train up to 50 people at a time. So it's, you know, hey, have me back on in a few years and I'll tell you how it went.
- [08:45]
Guy Raz
Well, absolutely. You know, Randy, the fitness market has changed so much since you started trx. Right? I mean even easier in the sense that you can find a manufacturer easier, but harder and that there's so much more stuff out there, so much more noise. And as influencer marketing and customer acquisition costs have gotten higher and higher, if you were today, I mean, you are doing it right with your new company, but if you were to introduce a new product into the market today, what do you think you would do differently in order to break through all the noise and the millions of products available on Amazon and on social media?
- [09:21]
Randy Hetrick
Well, it is a non trivial question that you're posing there. The clutter is just profound out there and trying to break out. I mean, there's a couple of ways to do it. Generally one of them is kind of foreclosed, which is buy your way to exposure. That for early stage companies rarely happens unless you happen to come from a trust fund and can afford to do it. So I would say that getting good authority, authentic influencers on board is a good way to do it because you know, those folks have large followings who trust their, you know what they say and are interested in what they do. And that can be a relatively inexpensive way to do it. You're going to pay some equity in all likelihood, but if you pick the right partner, then you get somebody who will be excited about the business and will want to be a Partner rather than just kind of a pay to play. That can be an effective way to do it.
- [10:24]
Guy Raz
Yeah. All right, Randy, let's bring in our first caller to the advice line. Are you ready?
- [10:28]
Randy Hetrick
Ready when you are.
- [10:29]
Guy Raz
All right, great. Welcome to the advice line. Please join us, tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a bit about your business.
- [10:36]
Paige Tse
Yes. Hi, guy and Randy, I am so excited to be here. So I'm Paige Tse. I'm the co founder of Benny calling in from Toronto, Canada. Benny is shaking up the energy market with naturopathic doctor formulated energy drinks for caffeine conscious or caffeine sensitive consumers.
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Guy Raz
Got it.
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Okay.
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Welcome to the show. Paige, thanks for calling in. So Benny is a beverage. It's like an energy drink, like Red Bull or Monster, but I'm assuming different, right?
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Paige Tse
You betcha. Yeah, you said it different.
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Guy Raz
Okay, what makes it different?
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Paige Tse
Yeah, so it, like I said, it's for caffeine conscious consumers like my co founder and myself. So it's less caffeine, it's 85 milligrams of caffeine, which for energy drinks or even for a cup of coffee is definitely on the light side. And then we use some pretty unique ingredients. So the base of the caffeine itself is Yerba mate tea, which is a tea from South America that gives you a really nice kind of gentle sustained boost, almost similar to a matcha. And then we use a blend, proprietary blend of adaptogens. So we have lion's mane, reishi and ginseng. So it gives you a really nice sustained boost.
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Guy Raz
Nice. Okay, well, thanks for calling in and tell me a little bit about how you started this. I mean, when did it start and why?
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Paige Tse
Yeah, great question. So I met my co founder back in university. We went to the University of Victoria and we really bonded over this shared love of wellness and entrepreneurship. And she, like yourself, Randy, was an athlete all through university and she was on a run one day in her fourth year and broke out into essentially anaphylactic shock. So throat closed in, body covered in hives. It was very scary. And spent the next couple of months trying to figure out what was going on in hospitals and kind of with typical western medicine. And they sent her back saying she had exercise induced anaphylaxia. So started peeling back the layers and now it's so obvious. But once she started cutting the excessive caffeine, you know, the multiple coffees, the Red Bulls, the caffeine pills, she felt way better. So we wanted to see if that was something that other people were dealing with. And after doing some research and bringing on a naturopathic doctor, we found it was a really big problem. So we thought, there's no one really putting this in a can in a fun, accessible, efficacious way.
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Guy Raz
All right, interesting. She was taking caffeine pills and drinking excessive coffee. That just seems a little extreme. Tell me a little bit about the business. So you started this. How did you guys finance it and find a manufacturer and get into cans? Did you raise money, for example?
- [12:56]
Paige Tse
Yeah, yeah. Lots of people think it's our parents because we're so young, but we actually launched with a very small bank loan, $25,000, which was amazing, you know, life changing. We couldn't have done it without it. So that was our launch. Started really in my co founder Julie's kitchen. Brought our naturopath doctor on, brought on kind of a team to help us formulate, got the formulation down. And that was two years ago. So since then we've really bootstrapped it. We've been profitable, which has been really great for a beverage business, but we can't really grow that way. But now we're in about a thousand stores across Canada.
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Guy Raz
Nice.
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So let's get your question.
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Paige Tse
Yeah, yeah. So this is the how I built this exclusive. We've actually never shared this publicly. I had to get permission from my co founder. But we're launching in Target nationwide later this year, so. In all of their stores. Thank you. We're so excited. But we want to know, beyond, you know, the obvious, the finances, like, how can we really set ourselves up for success?
- [13:51]
Guy Raz
Wow. Well, first of all, congratulations. Lots to unpack here. And before we get to your question, I want to bring Randy and Randy Hetrick, do you have any thoughts about her questions or do you have any questions for Paige?
- [14:02]
Randy Hetrick
Well, I mean, congratulations on the early success, I think. So it sounds like you've had pretty steep growth, right?
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Paige Tse
Yeah. No, thank you. It's been like a dream come true. So much work, but a dream.
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Randy Hetrick
And you mentioned that you're profitable, which honestly, if I can give anybody advice, including myself, it's always, hey, get profitable as quickly as possible and stay profitable because you make infinitely better decisions from that position. And you guys, it sounds like, are in a really great spot with a huge key account early in your business. And so is your main question, you guys are unable, I presume, to finance or to finance it from your own cash flow is kind of where we're headed, right?
- [14:51]
Paige Tse
Totally. So, yeah, we're exploring, like, you know, bringing on more investors. We've done a very small friends and family, which has been good PO financing. Even just knowing how much money, I think the number is infinite. We're up against the biggest players in the world with the biggest budgets in the world. So just kind of navigating from where we want to be to how do we work our way back from kind of obscurity in Canada.
- [15:16]
Guy Raz
Paige, give me a sense right now of what you guys are doing in terms of sales.
- [15:21]
Paige Tse
Yeah, so we launched about two years ago. We've done just, I think over $500,000 to date. Target, obviously their POS are going to be way big.
- [15:33]
Guy Raz
And are you launching an all 2000 plus stores simultaneously or are you going to start in a region?
- [15:38]
Paige Tse
Yeah, so we're launching with a limited edition flavor for the holidays in November and December. Our buyer is leaning in really deeply with us. He has a really good relationship with a lot of other energy drink brands that have kind of grown over the last few years. So he's kind of replicating their success in what they did. So an LTO limited edition flavor in the holidays and then launching all stores in January, which is intimidating.
- [16:02]
Guy Raz
Do you have somebody you're working with who is experienced, particularly with a retailer like Target? I mean, you mentioned the buyer, but yeah, but, but like a consultant, somebody who. Because, you know, again, and I don't want to scare you and I. People have told you this, but I think it's important to be prepared for this, which is, you know, and we've had this on the show where people go into Target, Walmart too early and then, you know, they're out for a few years and they have to come back and then they get to come back and they're okay. But sometimes, you know, these big, big box stores, they give you one chance initially and so there's a lot of pressure. Right, because you want to sell this thing. So my first question is, do you have somebody that you've identified that you can work with in addition to the buyer?
- [16:46]
Paige Tse
Yeah, yeah, we do. Which has been great. They've been really, really awesome. Kind of a broker team. And then we've got some great advisors. Some of them have been past guests who we love. But like, there's a million and one ways it could go. And like you said. Exactly that guy. It's like a one shot, it feels like. So we don't want to, don't want to blow it.
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Guy Raz
Yeah. Randy, you guys must sell TRX at Target, right?
- [17:08]
Randy Hetrick
We don't sell at Target, but we do big box retail you know, through Dick's and we obviously do a lot on Amazon. But what I was going to mention to Paige was that very, very early, at about the same point in our evolution, we had a great big opportunity with a big box, massive big box retailer called Costco. And it was so tempting and I flew up there to Issaquah and sat around a big table and ultimately ended up saying no. And the reason that I said no was because I was in the same spot you were. I was going to have to take on a big chunk of debt in order to finance this pilot. And the put rights are the thing that you want to really make sure that you understand. Meaning, like if the product, you know, those guys are no dummies. And that's why they have gigantic businesses and generally they will have terms that if the business doesn't work exactly as they hope it will, as the product doesn't work exactly as they hope they can put it back to you. In our case, you know, we had product problems that ended up coming out shortly after we passed this up. Had I not passed it up for that reason, there would have never been a trx. So I would just, you know, sort of throw that out there. And if you have, if you have a great advisor who's very familiar with big box retail, then they'll I'm sure be telling you something similar. But that is not a trivial decision. Right. To make to do it or not to do it. And you really gotta know your product.
- [18:46]
Guy Raz
Yeah, yeah, Paige. The other thing is you want to do everything in your power to harness your followers, your fans, anybody that you can possibly get to go to those stores and to buy the product. Obviously, I'm assuming you're going to work on some kind of sampling demos and things like that. But quick question for you, I'm curious. Cause I'm looking at the cans, they're really nice. Beautiful. Who is your target audience? I mean, you mentioned people, you call them caffeine conscious. So people who are looking for a little bit of a hit, but not sort of a jittery buzz. Is it women? Is it men? Is it both? Who is your kind of typical customer?
- [19:29]
Paige Tse
Yeah, we call them our friends with Benny. So it's typically that kind of 18 to 35 young woman, some men, but usually students, young professionals, either can do like one coffee a day and it's kind of their afternoon pick me up or someone like my co founder who really just can't handle that much and it's kind of their go to pick me up.
- [19:50]
Guy Raz
In that way, the reason why I ask is because. And you may know this story also, Randy, about Monster Energy, which is. They really focused on a specific demo. When they launched, it was like, guys who listen to metal who are into MMA and motocross, like, no joke. I mean, that is how that brand just went through the roof. And I think it's interesting because that is definitely a. A category of. Of customer. Right. And I feel like there isn't really an energy drink that targets women. It's like extreme sports. It's like, you know, Red Bull and Monster and, you know. But I don't feel like there are many drinks out there that are energy drinks for women.
- [20:34]
Paige Tse
Yeah, that's exactly it. We kind of say, what would Red Bull be doing with their community, for this community in 2025 if they were doing it today? So we do tons of events like Pilates, all those good things that our community really likes that I like.
- [20:48]
Guy Raz
And you mentioned Pilates. But there are so many opportunities that, to me, would be so clear and so aligned with what you're trying to do. Have you guys started to explore certain collaborations with brands that might not be? Obviously, everybody wants everybody to buy their products. Like, you want men to buy your products, you want young and old people to buy your products. But having a core, committed tribe of customers is not a bad idea. Have you started to kind of reach out to potential collaboration partners?
- [21:21]
Paige Tse
Yeah. Do you mean on a limited flavor with it?
- [21:24]
Guy Raz
Yeah, a flavor or some kind of offer or some kind of something.
- [21:28]
Paige Tse
Yeah, for sure, for sure. We've got them kind of on the works with different creators, but I love the idea of if it was. I'm trying to think what would be the modern equivalent, like a soul cycle or something like that, where it's there.
- [21:39]
Guy Raz
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Because I'm looking at your website and I feel like it's cool. It's great, but I feel like it says women owned here.
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And normally my advice is like, well.
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You know, you really want to appeal to everybody. You want to be kind of careful about those things. But in this case, I think it makes a lot of sense for you.
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To lean into that.
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I think it really does.
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Paige Tse
No, this is such good advice. And like trx, I don't know if we'll do a collab, but we'll find our right partner.
- [22:09]
Randy Hetrick
It would have to be black and yellow, but it would work. It could work. No, I think that one other point that bolsters the idea of focusing is the reality that at this point in your evolution, you don't have a lot of resources. You really do kind of have to focus in. It sounds to me like you're far enough along to have pretty high level of confidence in that kind of hierarchy of consumer targets. Starting with you've got the woman and you've got her age group. That then allows you to stretch those resources to the maximum effect versus a shotgun where now you're taking them and spreading them so thinly that they don't really make an impression on anyone. So. I agree. I like the idea of your current target.
- [23:01]
Guy Raz
Yeah. Especially because it's going to be a potentially a cheaper way to market. Right. Because you're going to need to balance marketing dollars and production dollars. Right. And you mentioned you've got an advisor who's on the show in the past. Who is that?
- [23:14]
Paige Tse
Yeah, Tara Bosch from SmartSuites.
- [23:16]
Guy Raz
Smart Sweets. Oh, she's wonderful.
- [23:18]
Paige Tse
Yeah. We're so lucky to have her.
- [23:19]
Guy Raz
Yeah, she's great. Cool. Randy, any last minute thoughts?
- [23:23]
Randy Hetrick
Well, I mean, I think an advisor that knows the space, the more relevant that advisor's experience is, directly relevant that she's going to be to you. So that sounds amazing. It sounds like exactly the right person. And if she's dealt with big box retail distribution, so much the better. Sounds like you guys are off and running. And man, I wish you the best of luck.
- [23:47]
Guy Raz
Yeah, good. Good luck. Paige. The brand is called Benny. Paige, say thanks for calling in.
- [23:52]
Paige Tse
Thanks so much, guys.
- [23:54]
Guy Raz
Congrats. Yeah. This is a tough category, beverages, because there's a lot of competition and even energy drinks. Right. And obviously dominated by the big players, you know, the Cokes and the Pepsicos. But there's always an opportunity. We've talked about this on the show a million times, that there's no such thing as a saturated market. Right. Is that there's always going to be an audience, people who are interested in your particular product or item.
- [24:25]
Randy Hetrick
And two things that I really love about her space is one, it's coming. As a product guy that makes durable products, I can tell you that the idea of consumables and recurring revenues is fantastic. And while her space is heavily competed, it's also the kind of space where if she creates something unique, which it sounds like they're on their way to doing, there are a ton of strategic acquirers out there looking to snap that up and roll it in.
- [24:55]
Guy Raz
Stay with us because after the break.
- [24:56]
We'Ll talk to another founder working to take their business to the next level.
- [25:01]
That's after the break. I'm Guy Raz and You're listening to the advice line right here on How I Built this Lab.
- [25:17]
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- [28:22]
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Visit www.happyegg.com built to find happy egg near you.
- [28:42]
Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and my guest today is TRX founder Randy Hetrick. And Randy is with your calls. And hello. Let's bring in our next caller.
- [28:53]
Kerry Jones
Hi, Randy. Hi, Guy. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Kerry Jones and I live in the ski resort town of Whistler, British Columbia in Canada. I'm the president and co founder of Peaked Pies. We're an Australian bakery cafe group and at Peaked Pies we make from scratch, 5 inch individual Australian savory meat pies.
- [29:15]
Guy Raz
Awesome. Thanks for calling in, Kerry. I've had them. They're not yours in particular, cause I have to go to Whistler. But, but meat pies are delicious. They're basically, I mean every culture makes a version of these Cornish pasties or you know, some kind of calzone or something. Right. Some bread or pastry stuffed with meat or cheese or savory stuff. So tell me a bit about the business.
- [29:38]
Kerry Jones
Yeah, so we are a. So meat pies in Australia are very iconic. They're kind of called the traditional, like national dish. And when I moved to Whistler in 2009 for a ski season like Whistler is basically run and overrun with Australians and there was no meat pie shops here, which I thought was really strange. And I then, that's when I met my now husband and co founder. He's amazing in the kitchen and he's heard me talk about, oh, I miss the Australian meat pies. And he then heard everyone else saying it. So he started making them at home. He's Canadian. And then friends started coming over and then we joked, oh, we should open a pie shop. And that was 2013, we opened a pie shop. So they are hot grab and go. So you come into our little cafe, it's quick service. The display case is right in front of you. It's a custom made, just exactly like you'd find in Australia. So they're hot, ready to go. We bake all throughout the day and we just top up this heated display case. So someone walks in, they say, I'll have a steak, bacon and cheese pie. We have a little twist on it. So we say, do you want to get that peaked? And then they add mashed potatoes, mushy peas, and gravy. We put it in a box and out they go. They literally have a homemade hot dish within like a minute and a half.
- [30:59]
Guy Raz
Wow. All right, so. And how many cafes do you have?
- [31:02]
Kerry Jones
So we have three corporate owned stores that are peaked pies. We have built a 3,000 square foot production facility now, and we are in the process of building our first franchise location.
- [31:15]
Guy Raz
Nice. Okay, so you're starting to think about. And you have a franchisee already?
- [31:20]
Kerry Jones
We do, yes. Yes. He's our very first one. Yep.
- [31:23]
Guy Raz
Amazing. Okay, lots to talk about before we do. Tell us what your question is.
- [31:26]
Kerry Jones
Yeah, so I've been listening to how I built this for a long time, and I've noticed, like a common theme from some of your entrepreneurs which have credited their growth to bringing on the right strategic investor. My husband and I have bootstrapped peaked pies. It's just been us. We don't come from money. We've put a lot into this over the years and we're definitely at a point now where we're looking to bring on a strategic investor. And I'm a confident person. I'm happy to reach out and talk to people. But it's getting. Then once we're in those meetings, what would you say are some smart questions for us to ask a potential strategic investor? What information do you think we can request from them to help us evaluate if they're truly the right fit for us?
- [32:12]
Guy Raz
All right, this is a great question for you, Randy, because you have dealt with this in good and bad ways. I know. So first of all, thoughts or questions or answers for Carrie?
- [32:25]
Randy Hetrick
Well, I mean, I love the franchise model for what you're doing here. And interestingly, Carrie, we're at the same. It's kind of roughly the same place with our franchises. Right. In terms of rollouts. So while I'm not going to position myself as a deep expert in franchising, I am an empathetic early stage franchisor with you. And to Guy's point, yes, I have had both good and not so good experiences with capital partners and that I've thought an awful lot about. And so I think one, this seems to me, at first glance, I pulled up your site, which is really beautiful, by the way.
- [33:05]
Paige Tse
Thank you.
- [33:05]
Randy Hetrick
It seems to me to lend itself very well to a franchise model because in general, I think the things that make the best franchises are the simplest concepts. Right. The more complicated the concept, the less well a franchise structure works because all of that complication has to be trained into your franchisee or the whole thing falls on its face. So, so this one looks to be a great fit for that. And obviously a franchise is a great way for you to scale rapidly in a relatively capital light way. My first kind of question to you just as a general pushback was okay, but since you're doing this as a franchise and franchises can grow as fast or as slow as you want them to, since you are the franchisor selecting how many you take on, are you sure that you really need and want external capital?
- [34:08]
Kerry Jones
It is the capital, yes, but it is the strategic part of it as well. It's my husband and I, it is just us. We didn't go to college, we didn't. We don't have university degrees in this. We have, you know, as a lot of founders don't have really. And so it's now that growth of like someone who's experienced in really the operation side of things, the franchise development and with that the capital as well, so marketing and so forth. Like we're really looking for someone who can partner with us to really booster this.
- [34:48]
Randy Hetrick
Well, I think that's a great answer. And self awareness in a, in an operator, in an entrepreneur is a very valuable thing. As Clint Eastwood said, a man's got to know his limitations. So that's all great stuff. I would say that my initial impression, and then I'll pass the mic back to Guy, is just to make sure that what you described was a lack of domain expertise in certain areas of this which you can get with team members who bring that right. And I would be very careful expecting too much from your investor unless, and we can talk about this in a second, unless you really get the right one, which isn't. Is easy to say you're going to do it turns out to be hard to do. And so, you know, that's just kind of a pathway that you can choose between the right path and the left path. Do we build it ourselves by getting some money and then hiring team members with expertise or do we bring in that strategic investor early and have that person help us do it all?
- [35:59]
Guy Raz
Yeah, I think Randy, what you're saying is, and Carrie, I think is really great advice is you can bring in an investor, but that investor Ultimately may talk a big talk about how they can help you strategically, but they're investing in 20 other things and they're focused on, unless it's an investor operator, somebody who says, you know what, I'm going to put money in and I'm going to be your cfo, the operations chief. I think there's an argument to be made here that you can do one of three things. Maybe even more than that, you can bring on an investor who might just be a silent partner or not a great investor, or you can bring on. We can try to identify really great operators, people who have experiences, particularly in sort of small to medium sized franchise operations, building them out, who are sort of semi retired. They come in for some equity, equity and that is one option. Or you do a third option which.
- [36:52]
Is you bring those people in and.
- [36:53]
You raise money in addition to that. Because having folks with operational experience like that is very attractive to strategic investors as well. They're going to want to see that you've got somebody who worked for a Panera or a Dave's Hot Chicken or whatever. I'm just throwing names out there, whatever. Other businesses that have a franchise model that know the playbook. This is a really interesting idea. It's a really interesting product. I could see something like this having, you know, strong appeal, particularly in Canada where you've got a huge sort of, you know, Anglo expat population. Right. People are already kind of familiar with this kind of food. And I would really spend time, I mean you can, you can troll LinkedIn and do, just do searches on LinkedIn and find people who have experience in building franchises who are semi retired. I mean, I think Randy's. Randy, your, your suggestion here, if I'm getting it right, which I think I am, is find the right operators.
- [37:55]
Kerry Jones
Yes.
- [37:55]
Randy Hetrick
Yeah, I, I'd be very careful about going toward a financial investor who has been involved in, in, you know, franchises before because you have to find out at what stage because that makes a huge difference. Right. Were they involved and do they have an operator on their team who was successfully involved in a early stage franchise? Which is where you guys are a very, very, very different game, right where we are now than where a 10 year old franchisor is with a thousand units or more. And I like the idea that guy is recommending a lot of finding a successful retired or kind of quasi retired operator who did really well and is now out there bouncing around interested in cool projects and would get involved with you as an advisor for, for a little bit of equity and who May say, you know what, I'd like to do this for a couple years and come out of retirement because that's the kind of like perfect early stage investor that you may find. And you also might just find people who love the concept, who want to put up some cash, which then allow you to pair a good advisor with some new hires and get yourself another two, three, four years down the road. And then look at. Because, you know, things change fast. Right. In an early stage business. And a couple years can make all the difference.
- [39:39]
Kerry Jones
Yeah. And Randy, you'd said that you had been brought on an investor and then you were able to buy them back out. Was there any signs or would you say, are there any red flags that potentially. I think that's what I'd be worried about is bringing on someone as a strategic investor and them not being as strategic as they claim.
- [39:59]
Randy Hetrick
I would say that's more common than not, right?
- [40:03]
Guy Raz
Yes.
- [40:04]
Randy Hetrick
Investors who claim to be bringing the famous word is synergies to what you're doing and experience because they will show you that they were involved in some successful brand that you like. But then if you really scratched, you'd find out that, that you know, the involvement was pretty shallow. And so I'd be careful of that. I'd really look for somebody who, who had deep expertise in a pretty narrow, you know, field of business. Right. Franchising, Food. Franchising.
- [40:37]
Guy Raz
Yeah, I agree. I think. And that's really where you can do your diligence, you know, where you identify somebody who has had experience as an executive or an operator in some capacity with a franchise model that you can now start to call people up and really dig into this person's background. Somebody who's, you know, again, semi retired might be interested in getting some equity. I would also, by the way, just reach out to some of these people who've been on our shows. Cold, cold, you know, contact them on Instagram or LinkedIn, see if they'll get back to you. Can't promise it, but I think that's really the best strategy for you right now is to find somebody who's willing to take a risk, who's interested, who loves this brand, this product. Product, and is willing to take a risk for some equity. Because it may not work, obviously, but of course the hope is that it will.
- [41:33]
Randy Hetrick
And even if somebody passes, by the way, ask them, get something from them, find out, because it's easy to be like, ah, the person just doesn't get it. And I know, believe me, but try not to do that. Try to ask. Like, wait a minute, what, what is it that you don't like? Right. Don't just let them go. Get something out of them because you're going to come away from that conversation with some really useful intel.
- [41:58]
Guy Raz
And also ask them if, if they don't like it. Hey, is there somebody you know of or you can think of who this might be more interesting to? That's also worth asking.
- [42:06]
Kerry Jones
Amazing. No, I really, really appreciate that. That's been some really good thoughts.
- [42:12]
Guy Raz
Awesome. Kerry Jones. The company's called Peaked Pies. Good luck. Congrats. Keep us pumping. Posted.
- [42:17]
Kerry Jones
Thank you.
- [42:19]
Guy Raz
All right, we're going to take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another collar.
- [42:23]
Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to.
- [42:26]
The advice line right here on How.
- [42:28]
I built this lab.
- [42:37]
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- [44:30]
Welcome back to the advice line on How I Built this Lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking your calls with Randy Hetrick of trx. Randy, you ready to take the next call?
- [44:39]
Randy Hetrick
Absolutely.
- [44:40]
Guy Raz
All right, let's bring in our final Caller, welcome to the Advice line. You are on with Randy Hetrick, founder of trx. Welcome to the show. Tell us your name, where you're calling from and just a line or two about your business, please.
- [44:50]
Catherine Perry
Hi guys, thank you so much for having me here. I'm Catherine Perry and I am the co founder and VP of Adapt Apparel. We're a modern adaptive clothing brand. Adapt creates stylish, easy to use clothing designed for people with disabilities, aging, loved ones and anyone recovering from surgery or managing medical conditions. And I'm calling in from Williamstown, Ontario.
- [45:16]
Guy Raz
Awesome. Thank you so much for calling in and congrats. Adapt Apparel. So this is comfortable clothing that is designed for people, if I got this right, with mobility issues or maybe who had surgery. So what does that mean? There's like a bunch of ways to put, put it on and take it off and like give me a description of what, what an outfit would, would be like.
- [45:38]
Catherine Perry
Absolutely. So it's easy and accessible clothing. So for example, if you have had a knee or a hip replacement and you're post op and you're recovering with your chirograph on your knee, we have our signature and patent pending zipper that comes all the way down that you can rehab or maybe you're going through cancer treatment, infusion, dialysis. Right. It is clothing that you can use for those, for those uses I get.
- [46:10]
Guy Raz
I gotcha. So how did you come up with this idea?
- [46:14]
Catherine Perry
Yeah, okay. So I was a special education teacher and a phys ed teacher for 21 years. I retired and I have my own health and wellness business to this day. During that time I was called upon to be a primary caregiver for both my parents who have Alzheimer's and mobility issues. When my father was dying, the nurses said to me, catherine, your father really needs adaptive clothing. And I said, like most of us, I have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, but direct me in the direction. I did a quick deep dive and I was like, no, that's institutional looking. Where's the dignity in this? I'm not putting my father in this clothing. And that's how we start. I said we're going to do better and we must do better. And that's. We launched in October of 24.
- [47:04]
Guy Raz
So they're like, I'm looking at the website, this like comfortable sort of like sweatsuit type kind of athleisure wear, but really with zippers down the sides of the legs and down the sides of the arms and like easy buttons that you just snaps, that you just like break away. That you could open easily. So it's really designed clearly inspired by your own experience with your parents.
- [47:25]
Catherine Perry
And it doesn't scream, I have a mobility issue or perhaps I have a cognitive issue because of, you know, Alzheimer's. Give an example. My mom wears it all the time. She feels good and she looks good.
- [47:36]
Guy Raz
That's awesome. And tell me a little bit about how you're doing in terms of sales. Right. You're selling entirely through your website.
- [47:43]
Catherine Perry
Yeah. So we started with direct to consumer market and we now are, I would say 40% on direct to consumer and 60% is selling. We're with long term care homes where we're with, with medical distribution centers, physio clinics, hospitals. So we're really a hybrid of a model right now and I think we can serve the masses with that type of model.
- [48:14]
Guy Raz
Cool. And tell us your question.
- [48:17]
Catherine Perry
So my question is so adapt apparel. It was born from a personal mission and was to create dignified, functional clothing for people with mobility challenges. Challenges. We've seen a strong interest from the long term care rehab, infusion clinics. But as we grow, we wonder, are we spreading ourselves too thin? Should we narrow our focus to scale or are we actually serving the sectors? It's giving us a competitive edge.
- [48:44]
Guy Raz
It's a really, really cool idea. I love the idea. Randy Hetrick, want to bring you in on this clothing for people with, you know, coming out of the hospital or aging or mobility issues. I mean, it just seems like a.
- [48:57]
No brainer to me.
- [48:58]
Randy Hetrick
Well, I mean, first of all, I love Catherine's kind of combination of deep domain expertise and then the passion. Right. From having worked with her own parents and that. You put those two things together and you've got really a pretty special recipe just to start with that deep domain expertise and passion.
- [49:19]
Guy Raz
Right.
- [49:20]
Randy Hetrick
And you're going to need both obviously as you go forward. I love, you know, when you think about the fashion space or the apparel space, fashion apparel is notoriously fickle. And you know, read that as risky functional apparel is starting to kind of have its day. And I don't think that it's necessarily, I mean we're seeing this in the fitness space too, like functional apparel beginning to pop up. And I think it's very interesting at this point. Maybe niche. Right. Still. But I think there's a huge potential audience if you can break through. As to your question, I mean you're asking kind of that great question of hey, how early do I focus? Which is a non trivial question. I mean, you gotta stay nimble enough to find the kind of the vein, but then focus as you begin to scale.
- [50:23]
Catherine Perry
That's what we said too, Randy. You know, for the first year, you're collecting your data, your analytics and everything, right? And don't be afraid to pivot. And as we navigate the murky waters, we're in the muddy water system right now. Do we branch or do we stay within where the story started?
- [50:41]
Guy Raz
I mean, I think it's a little bit of both, but I think it's about time frames, right? You're only a year into this, this thing and you've got a really innovative idea and product. And Randy, to your point, I mean, athleisure wear and you could call anything functional, right? I mean, viori shorts are functional. It's a billion dollar business, right? Huge business. Lululemons of the world. This is really specific for. And I think a lot of people, not just elderly people, but anyone who's been in a hospital can identify with, with the need for something like this.
- [51:15]
And I think right now, in my.
- [51:17]
View, you're best teed up to really work with hospitals, care facilities, rehab facilities, infusion clinics, and really try and make inroads with those institutions because that's where you're going to obviously find your initial customers. One just sort of observation here is you've got a really interesting logo, which I think is a thumbprint or a fingerprint.
- [51:45]
Randy Hetrick
Yes.
- [51:46]
Catherine Perry
I'm so glad you asked. Our logo is my mother's thumbprint.
- [51:51]
Guy Raz
I love it. It's a really cool logo. It looks distinctive. It looks like something you can really build out as a recognizable brand. But I think for now, you really want to make, you want to get traction with those places where people are in need of this. Right. You're not necessarily going to have an easy time with these hanging up at, you know, at Dick's Sporting Goods right now, but maybe in five years. But right now you want these where your potential customers are.
- [52:23]
Catherine Perry
Yeah, it's a great point because, you know, we've had interest from retailers and we, you know, our team will sit around and discuss that. You know, is this something that we really want to. Does it align with our core values? And that's really important to, to us.
- [52:38]
Randy Hetrick
I'm going to follow right where Guy was heading us too. You guys are brand, like brand spanking new. I know it probably doesn't feel that way to you, right? Because it's like the, you know, everybody talks about. Yeah, yeah. So but to the rest of us, right? To the rest of the world, you're brand new. And I think that it's really, really important to find your advocacy. See early from, you know, wherever it is, find that advocacy that people really get it and care and want to pick up your banner and help carry it forward. Because when you think about retail, it's pretty easy really to sell in. But what you really got to focus on with retail is sell through. Right. And that's where a lot of early brands that their buyers are out there in retail looking for things to buy. They're under pressure to bring in some new things and so they'll find you, maybe bring you in. But if you don't have some momentum, if you don't have some advocacy out there, it could be the worst decision you ever made because you can finance, right, A buy in, put it in there and then nobody buys it and then the retail rejects you. And for maybe ever, but certainly for a long time that retailer's burned. And so I wouldn't rush too fast to worry about, about retail or broadening your target. I'd actually try to find the real spot where you're hitting the target and evidenced by feedback from those early customers and then focus on that, learn from them, make some mistakes in a forgiving environment.
- [54:23]
Catherine Perry
I appreciate that so much.
- [54:24]
Guy Raz
Awesome. I think it's a great product, great idea. Kathryn Perry, Adapt Apparel. Congrats. Thanks so much for calling in.
- [54:32]
Catherine Perry
Thanks guys.
- [54:33]
Randy Hetrick
Best of luck.
- [54:33]
Guy Raz
Thank you.
- [54:34]
Catherine Perry
Thanks.
- [54:35]
Guy Raz
So Randy entrepreneurship alive and well in North America. Clearly.
- [54:42]
Randy Hetrick
So I get so excited by listening to these folks concepts Guy and I could listen to even more of this. Yeah.
- [54:49]
Guy Raz
You know, I am reminded every day with what I, I do, how much innovation. I mean and look, this isn't like you know, a laser AI product but it's a really innovative product and we're talking about something that people need. It's just a reminder of how much cool stuff people are creating all the time.
- [55:13]
Randy Hetrick
You know, without fail in my life experience, forget just my business experience experience, the things that always do the best are the things that start by solving a problem. Right. Because and then the broader, the broader held that problem is the faster the adoption and the, and the more, you know, meteoric the rise of the, of of the product. But if you can solve a problem and it does seem like she's solving one. I, you know, I've, my parents are, are aging and you know, my dad just passed away and dealing with spending a lot of time in the, in hospitals. I haven't seen anything like this. So it, it definitely seems like if she can, if you know, she can learn early and get it right, that there's a, there's a great early mover advantage, for sure.
- [56:01]
Guy Raz
Randy, A question I ask all of our returning guests, which I want to ask you, is that when you look back at your time building TRX and we, I mean, again, you guys have got to hear this episode. I'm going to say this again and again, it's so good. And there's so much we didn't even talk about about that episode on this show, including how you took on all the copycats. But if you were going back in time when you were really getting this off the ground, knowing what you know now, you know, all the experience you have now, what do you think would have been helpful for you to know? What advice would you give your younger self?
- [56:35]
Randy Hetrick
You know, coming out of Stanford business school when I did, I think I was crippled a little bit by the false sense that if, you know, if you can't get your business to be worth 100 million buc three years, then it's not worth doing right. Because, you know, I graduated from Stanford in 03. It was kind of on the back of the first dot com bubble burst, but there was an awful lot of kind of that thinking in the Valley. And what I would tell myself honestly is like, be a little more patient, do not, I really can't say it enough, like, get profitable as early as possible and stay profitable and make decisions from a mindset that, you know, I want to try to maintain profitability. And even if I have to go underwater a little bit to do it, a little bit's fine. Deeply less fine. And because, you know, honestly, when, when you're living in a profitable world, the clock ticks more slowly, you think more clearly. And, and I, I just, that would probably be the biggest piece of advice that I give myself to answer your question, is be patient, stay profitable, focus on my customers, and grow at an organic rate rather than some artificially powered nitrous oxide powered rate that may not work, may take you in the wrong direction.
- [58:02]
Guy Raz
That's the inventor and founder of trx, Randy Hetrick.
- [58:05]
Randy.
- [58:05]
Randy, thanks so much for being with us.
- [58:07]
Randy Hetrick
Great to be with you, guy. Thanks for having me back.
- [58:09]
Guy Raz
And of course, if you haven't heard Randy's original How I Built this episode, please, please, please do take the time to go back and check it out. It is so good. I will put a link to it in the podcast description. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.
- [58:22]
Randy Hetrick
The manufacturer that I had started with didn't have a depth of manufacturing experience in kind of product that I was bringing, which is this product has to be very durable. And so one of the very early large lots of inventory we ordered arrived and you know we'd sold out of everything. So of course we were out of stock by the time it arrived and desperate to ship. Well, we hooked up the first suspension trainer leaned back and the handles just cracked like potato chips.
- [58:56]
Guy Raz
Hey, thanks so much for for listening to the show this week.
- [58:58]
And by the way, please make sure.
- [58:59]
To check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free@guyraz.com or on substack. And of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a.
- [59:09]
One minute message that tells us a.
- [59:11]
Little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo@hibtid.wondery.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298.
- [59:28]
Leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And we'll put all of this information.
- [59:33]
In the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Kathryn Seifer with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce.
- [59:42]
Our engineers were Robert Rodriguez and Khwesi Lee.
- [59:46]
Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Karla Estevez, Casey Herman, Kerry Thompson, Chris.
- [59:52]
Masini, Rommel Wood, Sam Paulson, Neva Grant, and Elaine Coates.
- [59:56]
I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built this. If you like How I Built this, you can listen early and ad free.
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Right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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