Advice Line with Steve Holmes of goba Sports Group

Summary

How I Built This with Guy Raz – Episode: Advice Line with Steve Holmes of Springfree Sports Group

Release Date: May 29, 2025

Podcast Information: "How I Built This" hosted by Guy Raz delves into the stories behind some of the world's best-known entrepreneurs. In each episode, founders share their journeys, highlighting moments of doubt, failure, and eventual success. This episode features Steve Holmes of Springfree Sports Group and includes interactive segments where entrepreneurs seek advice.

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1. Introduction to the Episode

The episode kicks off with Guy Raz introducing the "Advice Line," a segment dedicated to helping entrepreneurs tackle their business challenges. This interactive format allows listeners to gain insights directly from experienced founders.

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2. Interview with Steve Holmes – Founder and Chief Activity Officer of Springfree Sports Group

a. Beginnings and Innovation

Steve Holmes shares his journey of acquiring the patent for the Springfree Trampoline from inventor Keith Alexander. "When you realized it was such an amazing invention" (04:02) led to the launch of Springfree Trampolines globally. The brand distinguished itself in the trampoline market by emphasizing safety and innovation.

b. Springfree’s Unique Selling Proposition

Steve elaborates on the product's safety features: "You don't, you're not bouncing on springs that you can fall through," (05:01) highlighting the use of flexible glass rods instead of traditional springs. This innovation significantly reduces injuries, a testament to the company's commitment to safety.

c. Expansion into Rebar Manufacturing

Springfree's technological prowess doesn't stop at trampolines. Steve introduces their latest venture, GreenBar2x, a glass-based rebar product used in construction. "It's twice as strong as steel, and it's one quarter the weight," (05:32) explains Steve, underscoring its potential to revolutionize the construction industry. Available in every Lowe's store across America, GreenBar2x exemplifies Springfree’s dedication to innovation and quality.

d. Navigating Tariffs and Supply Chain Challenges

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the impact of tariffs on manufacturing, particularly with products made overseas. Steve recounts the challenges: "We loaded the US market with product pre-tariff" (06:36) to mitigate the effects, but with tariffs still in place, the company explores diversifying its global channels and investing in domestic manufacturing. "Nothing outside of my control will get in my way," (07:40) reflects Steve's resilient attitude towards overcoming these obstacles.

e. Personal Resilience and Advice

Towards the end of the interview, Steve opens up about his personal battle with cancer. Despite facing health challenges, he maintains a positive outlook: "Today is the best day of the rest of my life," (50:19) and offers profound advice to budding entrepreneurs. "Be honest with yourself and honest with others, regardless of the consequences you may perceive," (51:24) emphasizes Steve, highlighting the importance of integrity in business.

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3. Advice Line: Entrepreneurial Challenges and Solutions

The "Advice Line" segment features interactions between Steve Holmes and entrepreneurs seeking guidance on various business issues. Ikechukwu Gweboo joins in to provide additional insights.

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a. Caller 1: Cody Johnson – Founder of VAY Apparel

Business Overview: Cody founded VAY Apparel in 2019 while at the University of Maryland, inspired by Under Armour’s Kevin Plank. The brand focuses on activewear that seamlessly transitions from gym to everyday life.

Challenge: Cody seeks advice on maintaining focus on their core audience—primarily African American men and women—without alienating other consumer groups.

Advice and Insights: Steve and Ike recommend emphasizing core values such as resilience, strength, and empowerment, which transcend demographics. "Excellence and empowerment ... it's just excellence," (16:12) suggests Steve, advising Cody to let these values guide their brand presentation. Ike adds, "Clearly identify your customer segments and determine whether to use channel partners or direct relationships," (19:10) urging a strategic approach to market segmentation.

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b. Caller 2: Kenesha Lewis – Founder of Grand Tongo

Business Overview: Kenesha launched Grand Tongo, a DEET-free bug spray product available in Target's 1,180 stores. The formulation uses Picaridin, offering longer protection and a better consumer experience.

Challenge: Building a sustainable business with a highly seasonal product, ensuring effective advertising that aligns with fluctuating demand.

Advice and Insights: Steve highlights the importance of maintaining an "always-on" advertising strategy to keep algorithms optimized: "How do we meet demand while keeping ads running optimally?" (30:13). Ike suggests diversifying product lines and exploring additional retail channels like airport stores, where impulse purchases can occur: "Airport convenience stores think of last-minute needs," (32:40) emphasizing the need to capture demand beyond peak seasons.

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c. Caller 3: Kenesha – Founder of One More Cocoa

Business Overview: Kenesha founded One More Cocoa, a gourmet chocolate company inspired by her Jamaican heritage. The brand offers unique flavors like Scotch bonnet chocolate, featured on Oprah's Favorite Things in 2023.

Challenge: Transitioning from a viral moment to a sustainable marketing strategy that converts one-time customers into long-term patrons.

Advice and Insights: Steve advises capturing customer contact information through incentives: "Offer a discount for email sign-ups to build a direct communication channel," (44:12). He also suggests creatively using QR codes on packaging to engage customers and encourage repeat business. Ike recommends geotargeting strategies to leverage local community support and partnerships with complementary businesses like Caribbean restaurants.

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4. Conclusion and Final Reflections

Steve Holmes concludes the episode with personal reflections and key advice for entrepreneurs:

1. Keep a Black Book: "Write down everything you learn; you can't remember it all," (51:24) underscores the importance of documenting experiences and lessons.

2. Integrity and Honesty: Emphasizing honesty with oneself and others to navigate business challenges effectively.

3. Self-Care: "Take care of yourself," (49:44) reminds entrepreneurs of the importance of maintaining personal well-being amidst business pressures.

Steve's candid discussion about his health journey and resilience serves as an inspiring testament to overcoming adversity while building a successful business.

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Key Takeaways

• Innovation and Safety: Springfree Trampoline’s unique design showcases the importance of prioritizing safety and innovation in product development.

• Resilience in Business: Navigating external challenges like tariffs requires strategic planning and adaptability.

• Customer Focus: Maintaining core values and clearly identifying customer segments are crucial for brand loyalty and expansion.

• Sustainable Marketing: Leveraging viral moments effectively involves building direct communication channels and fostering long-term customer relationships.

• Personal Integrity: Honest self-assessment and integrity are foundational to sustainable business success.

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Notable Quotes

• "You don't, you're not bouncing on springs that you can fall through." – Steve Holmes (05:01)

• "Nothing outside of my control will get in my way." – Steve Holmes (07:40)

• "Be honest with yourself and honest with others, regardless of the consequences you may perceive." – Steve Holmes (51:24)

• "Excellence and empowerment ... it's just excellence." – Steve Holmes (16:12)

• "Take care of yourself." – Steve Holmes (49:44)

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Final Thoughts

This episode of "How I Built This" provides valuable insights into building and scaling a brand with a strong focus on innovation, customer loyalty, and personal resilience. Steve Holmes' experiences and advice serve as a beacon for entrepreneurs navigating their unique business challenges.

For more episodes and inspiring stories from leading entrepreneurs, listen to "How I Built This" on the Wondery App or your preferred podcast platform.

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Transcript

[Guy Raz]

Wondery subscribers can listen to How I Built this early and ad free right now. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Thank you to our sponsor, American Express. Owning a business means you get to chart your own course and create a meaningful life for you and your family. With Amex Business Platinum, you can earn 1.5 times Membership Rewards points on select business purchases, plus stay refreshed on the go with access to more than 1400 lounges globally through the American Express Global Lounge Collection, including the Centurion Lounge. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] AmExBusiness thank you to our sponsor, Amazon Prime. You know, I've been thinking a lot about convenience lately and how one service has completely transformed the way we live our daily lives.

[Steve Holmes]

And of course I'm talking about Amazon Prime.

[Guy Raz]

Whenever you need something, whether it's delivered.

[Steve Holmes]

In hours or just a couple of.

[Guy Raz]

Days, prime just makes it happen. Just the other day I realized I needed a refill on my vitamins and I found it within seconds on Amazon.

[Steve Holmes]

I ordered it and I was back.

[Guy Raz]

To my routine the next day. It's almost like when you think of it, Amazon does the rest. But here's what's fascinating. Prime isn't just about shipping. It's about having access to an entire ecosystem of services, from award winning shows on Prime Video to millions of songs and podcasts on Amazon Music, to exclusive deals that honestly make you wonder how they do it. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into. And now a quick vital break. A little more from our sponsor, Vital Proteins. Have you heard of Vital Proteins? Collagen Peptides. It's a supplement that has four benefits all in one helping support healthy hair, skin, nails, bones and joints. Because of aging, after 30, our body's natural collagen production can start to decline by 1% a year which which may lead to the appearance of fine lines, saggy skin and your bones and joints not moving like they used to. By taking collagen peptides daily, you can help support your hair, skin, nail, bone and joint health. Consistency is key. Take a serving of collagen peptides daily to help look, feel and move your best. Get 20% off by going to www.vitalproteins.com and entering promo code built at checkout. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you're pregnant, nursing or have a medical Condition. Consult your physician before use. Hello and welcome to the advice line.

[Steve Holmes]

On How I Built this Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help.

[Guy Raz]

Try to solve your business challenges.

[Steve Holmes]

Each each week I'm joined by a.

[Guy Raz]

Legendary founder, a former guest on the show, who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you.

[Steve Holmes]

Need advice, give us a call.

[Guy Raz]

And you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a 1 minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with.

[Steve Holmes]

You can also send us a voice [e-mail] and make sure to tell us how to reach. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter.

[Guy Raz]

It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs.

[Steve Holmes]

You can sign up for [e-mail] and.

[Guy Raz]

We'Ll put all this info in the podcast description.

[Steve Holmes]

All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Steve Holmes. He's the founder and chief activity officer of Springfree Trampoline. Steve, it's great to have you back on the show.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Hey, it's great to be here. Thank you, Guy.

[Steve Holmes]

So we first met, you came to San Francisco, we did an interview in person back in 2019. You and Keith Alexander, who was the inventor of the springfree trampoline. And if you guys haven't heard that story, we'll put a link in the episode description. It's a great episode about invention, about partnership, about building something of real value. You realize it was such an amazing invention when you came across it. And long story short, you ended up.

[Guy Raz]

Buying the patent from him.

[Steve Holmes]

You went on to launch Spring Free.

[Guy Raz]

Trampolines around the world.

[Steve Holmes]

Here we are today.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Yeah, and, and, and we're still having fun. You know, our GOBA sports group, we exist to inspire joyful moments. And you know, we have had so much fun over the years watching kids and families have joy in their backyard. So it's been a lot of fun.

[Steve Holmes]

And I know a lot of people know these trampolines. Trampolines are, they're like, it's one of those things that doesn't have a brand often attached to it. But Spring Free really was one of the first where there was a brand.

[Guy Raz]

Name attached to a trampoline.

[Steve Holmes]

They're different because they're Spring Free. You don't, you're not bouncing on springs that you can fall through. And I think your Research shows dramatically fewer injuries. The technology is so remarkable because it's made out of material. Basically a glass material. Yes, glass that allows it to really bend and bounce like springs. You've actually repurposed this technology. You're working on repurposing it for a completely different use case.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Yeah, amazingly. And we're having a ton of fun. We've built a very, very large facility in North Carolina and focused on Build America and Buy America, and we make rebar out of glass.

[Steve Holmes]

So you make rebar for buildings?

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Yeah, rebar for buildings, for driveways, for. And it never rusts. It's twice as strong as steel, and it's one quarter the weight, and it's available in every Lowe's store in America. It's called GreenBar2x, and it is really revolutionizing the construction space.

[Steve Holmes]

All right, Steve, I know that you are manufacturing this rebar in North Carolina, but of course, some of your products springfree manufactured overseas. Let's talk about tariffs now, because tariffs are posing an enormous challenge for toy manufacturers, apparel companies, anybody, particularly who's working and making products in China. Tell me a little bit about what's going on right now for you guys.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

So you go back to my phrase that I. And I don't own the phrase, but I keep using it, which is, nothing outside of my control will get in my way. So the first thing is when the election was taking place in the US and there was talk of tariffs, we go back to some of the things that I've even shared with you in the past during COVID Generate cash, preserve cash, to invest cash. We had enough cash that we loaded the US Market with product. So much so we were bursting at the seams. And everybody was saying to me, are you nuts? Do you know how much inventory we have? I said, we don't have enough. Keep shoving it in. And so we got a lot of product in the United States pre tariff. We still had a tariff, but it wasn't onerous. It was 12% or something like that, but we got it in, and that was good. So now what we're doing, interestingly enough, is we're looking at all of our global channels in a new way. How do we do that? We've made some significant investments in Europe. We've made some significant investments in other parts of the world.

[Guy Raz]

But in the meantime, I mean, you.

[Steve Holmes]

Can'T overnight create a trampoline factory in North Carolina or in Germany or New Zealand.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Look, we've invested so heavily, and they're family. I'm not running away From China. It's not that easy. We've done too much. So we're really hopeful that there will be some resolution, Resolution, resolution. And simultaneously, you can't just put your head under a pillow and think that this is going to go away. Those people who don't have cash and are unable to preserve cash, we will see them as casualties in this marketplace. And that's a sad, sad statement. But it is one of the things that's so hard. I mean, you and I both know, guy, that one of the greatest gifts to America is they're entrepreneurs. And I just hate it when I see young entrepreneurs who are so committed facing some of these dilemmas that are preventing them from employing people and driving value.

[Steve Holmes]

Yeah, well, we will see how it all plays out. And it's interesting times, as they say.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Well, one last comment on the tariff thing. What I would say to the founders like me, get yourself connected to a group of like minded people, whether they're in the same industry, opposite industry, and continue to have a dialogue and sound it out. It's absolutely essential.

[Steve Holmes]

Yes.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

You cannot solve this alone.

[Steve Holmes]

Now actually is a great time for competitors to, to come together. It's a great, great advice. Okay, Steve, let's go ahead and take our first caller. Bring in our first caller. Hello, welcome to the advice line. You are on with Steve Holmes from Springfree Trampoline. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business.

[Cody Johnson]

Hello, guys. Steve, My name is Ikechukua Gweboo. I'm calling from Prince George's County, Maryland and I'm the founder of VAY Apparel. We're an activewear brand for the culture, specializing in hybrid designs that merge fitness and fashion to help you look different, move different and be the difference from the gym to your everyday life.

[Steve Holmes]

Welcome to the show. Ike Chukwu.

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, you can call me Ike for short.

[Steve Holmes]

Ike.

[Guy Raz]

Okay, thank you.

[Steve Holmes]

Awesome. Thanks for calling in, Ike. Welcome to the show. So it's V Apparel VAY ve. Okay. V E I I and this is a brand that you started. Tell me a little bit about a little bit more about the brand.

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, for sure. So I started the brand in 2019 when I was a student athlete at the University of Maryland. I actually started it after I met the found of Under Armour Kevin Plank. He's an alumni of the school and he also played football. And he, he came and spoke to my team one time and he was like 20 years ago I was in the same seats at the same school, playing the same sport. And, like, when he said that when he started the. The brand, he was in my same position, it kind of like lit a light bulb in me. And, you know, none of my other teammates really paid attention to it. But, like, for me, I just kind of saw him as no different from me. And I knew on that day that I wanted to create a brand very similar to Under Armour, but that really represented and authentically spoke for people that come from similar experiences and backgrounds as mine. So.

[Steve Holmes]

Got it.

[Cody Johnson]

That was my mission.

[Steve Holmes]

It's interesting because Kevin Plank, like you, was a very good athlete because he was good enough to make a Division 1 football team, but probably already knew in his first year he was never going to go pro.

[Cody Johnson]

Right.

[Steve Holmes]

And probably, like, similar to you, like, you knew that. But the great advantage is you have all these guys that you're connected with, some of whom will go probably, and.

[Guy Raz]

You might be able to get your product in their hands.

[Cody Johnson]

Exactly. Yeah. Literally. My best friend and my position mate, he now plays for the Buffalo Bills. His name is Ty Johnson and he was my first model when I started the brand, and then he got drafted when I started the business and now he's like one of my, you know, my first investors and he wears the brand and gives it to his teammates and stuff. So it's a. It's a great product.

[Steve Holmes]

So you started this in 2019? It's. It's performance apparel and maintenance. Like what, like shorts, shirts and made from like, sweat wicking material?

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, exactly, yeah. So we have a multitude of products, mainly products that are blended, so polyester, spandex, cotton blends. So, like, you can work out in them, but then you can also wear them in your day to day life as well, so.

[Steve Holmes]

And sold entirely D2C through your website?

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, so a majority of our sales come from D2C, but we also have partnerships with specifically Gold's gyms here in the D.C. maryland and Virginia area. And we're hoping to expand that across the region and then the country because Gold Gym is a great partnership for us, so.

[Steve Holmes]

Doing, like, branded stuff for them.

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, honestly, we kind of just. We sell our apparel on consignment with the gyms, we work with the owners of the gyms and then we'll invoice them on a net 30.

[Steve Holmes]

I'm looking at your website and I notice a very prominent lion logo, like a lion mane, lion's head with a crown. Tell me about that logo.

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, so when I was starting the brand, I was thinking of, you know, what really felt like representing me Because I knew that the brand would come from my core. And I just felt like the line is a symbol of dominance and being a leader and just, you know, leading from the front. So I wanted to use that logo as a symbol for. For the brand.

[Steve Holmes]

All right, Ike, tell us a little bit about your pain point, your challenges, and then we'll probably have more questions for you. What's your question for us?

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, for sure. So my main question is how do I continue to focus on my core audience, which is like, primarily African American men and women, without putting the brand into a box or unintentionally alienating other groups who want to support what we're building.

[Steve Holmes]

Steve Holmes, let me bring you in here before we answer Ike's question. Any questions for him about the brand?

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Well, I too am on your website. Really quick. Looks fabulous.

[Cody Johnson]

Thank you.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Apparel's a tough game. How do you managing that inventory and that sizing and all of those issues. How are you doing?

[Cody Johnson]

Honestly, it's just been trial and error. I'm actually like here in my warehouse now. We kind of just. I've been using YouTube University and learning since I started the brand. So just trial and errors, putting things in the market, seeing what people like, and really getting feedback from our customers on a one to one basis, from texting to calling them and emailing them.

[Steve Holmes]

What about sales so far? Give me a sense of what you guys did. Did last year.

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, so last year we did a quarter million.

[Steve Holmes]

That's pretty good.

[Cody Johnson]

Nearly a quarter million in sales. Yeah. So we've been pretty much growing 100% year over year since I started in 2019.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Now on your website, I look really quickly here and you are premium price. So I mean, so how are you experiencing like the Gold's gym? Is that the price point they sell at as well? Like the same price as it's online is also the retail price.

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah. So I would say we have different tiers of products that we sell. So our hero items, our stealth hoodie and our infinity cargo joggers are our best sellers. Those are like very premium price. And then we have our more entry level items like our graphic T shirts that people would wear in the gym, and we bring those down to a price margin that people in the gyms would be receptive to. They wear the brand, people give compliments to them, and then they come back and purchase more higher tier items.

[Steve Holmes]

Ike, I'm wondering about. I mean, I'm looking at the cargo joggers, which are. It's a great product. It looks very different from anything else out there on the market. And obviously, look, athletic wear, you know, athletic apparel is a. Is a competitive space. Right. I don't believe in saturated markets. I believe in really good branding. And so you're asking, how do you make sure that you're still authentic to black men and women, but also not sort of alienating other consumers? Like, if you were to guess, like a competing brand or product that, let's just say black men at gyms might prefer to use, what would it be? I mean, I'm assuming, like any consumer, they're still buying Viori, they're still buying Under Armour, Nike, Adidas.

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, for sure. I would say, like the Under Armours, the Vuoris, even Gymshark as well, is taking up market share in the market. Yeah, those are the brands.

[Steve Holmes]

And so you're trying to figure out how to kind of thread that needle. And I think, to me, the answer there is to really focus on values. Right. Like, I'm looking at your website and there's images of guys clearly just really into Fitness, doing CrossFit. These are guys who are strong, but not like Crazy Jack, just healthy, you know, lean. And I feel like the values that it speaks to are resilience, strength, excellence, empowerment. And so you're already using imagery. Well, right.

[Guy Raz]

But I think that you have an.

[Steve Holmes]

Opportunity to use it even more effectively. Excellence and empowerment and strength like that transcends class, race, gender. Like, it's just excellence. Right. And I feel like if you can start to think about those values, it'll start to inform how you present the product. Right.

[Guy Raz]

How you present it out into the world.

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, 100%. That's a great insight. I appreciate that.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

I think you've got to look and figure out what are the other gym distribution opportunities, obviously within the scope of your ability to manage consignment inventory, which is a really tough. Which is a really painful financial. I don't know how you do that. I actually. Because I used to be in the apparel business, so be careful is my advice on consignment inventory. Sometimes you might be willing to give up some margin to eliminate the consignment because it's a very tough place to be coming from.

[Steve Holmes]

By the way, your friend who's on the bills, is he wearing the clothing?

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah. So we actually ended up adding like a sub brand underneath because he wanted to learn about apparel manufacturing as well. So he wears it to every. Every walkout. We make sure to have pictures taken. We do collaborations, and we're working with some partnerships up there in Buffalo to just expand the brand to that die hard Bills mafia demographic.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

You just gotta get the Bills to win the Super Bowl.

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, it was close last year.

[Steve Holmes]

And by the way, you're talking about a real tribe. I mean, those fans are unlike. It's not like LA Rams fans. You know, it's like these. And not to disparage them, but I mean, let's be honest. If you're a Buffalo Bills fan, like, you are dying hard. You're like, right. You're like Green Bay packers fans. Like, you're. It's all or nothing. And I feel like there's a real opportunity to lean into that committed group of people who are going to support their players.

[Cody Johnson]

Yeah, those fans go crazy. We've even done like anytime we'll do a pop up in Buffalo, like and we'll say that Ty's going to be there. Just him being there will bring out wide crowds of people. And then some of his teammates are like, hey, I'm chilling right now. Let me come through as well. And that'll just bring even more people. So we're really going to leverage that with more planning this off season going into the season to make sure that we can maximize that audience's love and affection for the brand.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

So I'm going to go back to what Guy said earlier. Go back to values. Get those values right, get that existence right. And then look at and make sure you clearly identify your customer segments. So guys, just identified a segment that I wouldn't have thought of, you know, which is basically anybody who's a Bills fan in Buffalo. So look at those segments really, really carefully and then ask yourself two questions. Do I need a channel to get at that segment or can I build a direct relationship? So once again, you have a brand partner that actually has the ability to extend a relationship with a large customer segment. And that may be very powerful.

[Steve Holmes]

Ike, thanks so much for calling in VAY Apparel. Congrats. Good luck, man.

[Cody Johnson]

No problem. Thank you. Appreciate you. And thank you as well for having the podcast. I actually, when I started the business, I was listening to the Tope Awatona Calendly podcast. I emailed him and he reached back out to me because we're both Nigerian, both were born in Atlanta and he's been a good mentor to me. So just the work that you're doing doesn't go unnoticed. I really appreciate it.

[Steve Holmes]

Thank you so much for calling on. I appreciate it.

[Cody Johnson]

No problem. Alrighty, take care.

[Steve Holmes]

You know, we did a story on the show Steve a couple years ago about Zumies you know that skatewear shop in the mall and the secret to the success of that store is inventory management. They're just obsessive about inventory management. And so it's like try to say I don't say tricks, but tricks like that can make or break an apparel business for sure.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Yeah. The scary part for me there was the word consignment. You know, like. Cause you can get a sizing or an item that'll sit on that shelf for a long, long time. Cause there's nobody moving it and you've got your costs stuck in there. I mean you can inventory managed could be at the smallest level and it can be at the biggest level. But if you ignore it, if you ignore it, it can be the detriment of you.

[Steve Holmes]

Yeah, it's an art. It's an art and a science, in fact. All right, we're going to take a.

[Guy Raz]

But we'll be right back with another caller and another round of advice.

[Steve Holmes]

Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the advice line right here on How I built this Lab.

[Guy Raz]

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[Steve Holmes]

Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and my guest today.

[Guy Raz]

Is Steve Holmes, the founder of Springfree Trampoline.

[Steve Holmes]

Steve, let's take another call.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Sure, that sounds like a great idea.

[Steve Holmes]

Hello, welcome to the advice line. You are on with Steve Holmes, founder of Springfree Trampoline. Welcome. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

[Kenesha Lewis]

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. My name is Cody Johnson and I'm the founder of Grand Tongo, which is the great smelling powerful DEET alternative bug spray which just launched in Target in 1,180 stores. So I'm calling in from Las Vegas, Nevada, which is where I'm born and raised at.

[Steve Holmes]

So it's a pleasure to be here with you, Cody. Welcome to the show Grand Tongo. This is a, a mosquito repellent that is DEET free. DEET is that harsh chemical very effective at keeping ticks and other bugs off your body, but a lot of people are nervous about using it because of, you know, its potential toxicity. So what you have created or you formulated a new DEET free repellent?

[Kenesha Lewis]

We created a new formulation, yes. And we utilize an active ingredient called Picaridin, which is a bit more naturally derived. We really looked at the category holistically. We looked at all active ingredients that were available for repellency, including DEET and seeing how we could reformulate them and just make the experience better.

[Steve Holmes]

I am Cody. I'm super paranoid about ticks and Lyme disease, and even though I'm in California, it's less common. And I do use that deet spray, but I hate it because I'm always like, this is not. I'm not sure about this. And so this is exciting. Tell me a little bit about how you got into the. The.

[Guy Raz]

Into the bug spray business.

[Kenesha Lewis]

I'll tell you. You know, it really has been a journey. I went down the rabbit hole. You know, I travel very frequently to Costa Rica, and I was having to use a deformulation, and I would use it on my skin, and when I would use it, it would make my skin feel, like, radioactive. And then I just began to jump down the rabbit hole of, like, there's got to be a better solution to this. There's got to be other options. I've heard of the essential oils, but I've never really had great efficacy with those.

[Steve Holmes]

Like. Like mint or peppermints or different.

[Kenesha Lewis]

Yeah, yeah. So I really just became an expert, like, in the space by digging and asking questions and looking in the EPA database of what was available, what other countries are using. I used something that they had used in Germany, and I brought it here and used it in my formulation.

[Steve Holmes]

That's Picaridin. Is that what it's called?

[Kenesha Lewis]

Correct.

[Steve Holmes]

Picaridin, which comes from pepper, right? Black pepper, yeah.

[Kenesha Lewis]

It's inspired. So it's not necessarily a biomolecule, but it is clear and it's odorless, and it has a nice consumer feel and experience. And more than anything, it's got a long protection time, so it protects you for 12 hours.

[Steve Holmes]

Cody, what were you doing before you launched this?

[Kenesha Lewis]

I started out working in emergency rooms. I used to be an emergency room scribe and used to do trauma research, but most of my career was spent in pharmaceuticals and working in medical devices. So I just really became cognizant of, you know, the health factor and cognizant of what we put in our skin and the ingredients and the chemicals that we use. So that's kind of like, my niche is in the health field.

[Guy Raz]

Nice.

[Steve Holmes]

All right, so you've got this. It's called Grand Tongo. Really cool. I like the labels. And you're new. And just very briefly, what kind of. Of sales have you done so far? Any data to share with us?

[Kenesha Lewis]

Yeah, I mean, I will share. The first year, we did really small. We only launched in a soft launch of just doing a thousand of each SKU. So like 5000 units. So that was itty bitty teeny tiny. We really just validated the product on Amazon and became an Amazon choice product because that's when we felt like we had like product market fit. And then the second year we were capable of scaling up to meet a more substantial moq. So we were right around a million dollars. And then this year with Target, we're projecting to be quite a bit higher than that. But of course, with this great opportunity with Target comes a great responsibility. It's like when you have this partnership with a retailer, you need to perform. You know, you're held to like units per store, per week. So that's a lot of my focus is, you know, like this just went into store and we're crossing this atmosphere, going from digital into big retail. And it's just unchartered territory.

[Steve Holmes]

So, Cody, before I bring Steve Holmes on, just tell what's your pain point? What's your question for us?

[Kenesha Lewis]

Yeah, my question's really. This is considering my product category, you know, that it's insect repellent, it's bug spray. How do I build a sustainable business with an effective advertising engine? With a highly seasonal product, we see a super strong demand during the summer timeframe and then the demand tips down, you know, towards September.

[Steve Holmes]

Yeah. Steve Holmes, I'm going to bring you in. Canada is a mosquito heaven in the summertime.

[Guy Raz]

I've been there.

[Steve Holmes]

It is. I mean, you know, it's. So anyway, we can, before we answer Cody's question, do you have questions for him?

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Yeah. First, congratulations. I love the brand. I've just jumped on the website really quick. I'd love to know one thing. Is there anybody else that uses that active ingredient? So are you having to compare yourself to anybody else or are you just really focused on the deet?

[Kenesha Lewis]

Deet, deet, yeah, it's a good question. We're not exclusive, the ones only using Picaridin, but there is stratification in the category, I would say most of the category and probably 80% of products to date still use active ingredient. D and there's also a small segment on the opposite end of the spectrum, which is a lot of use the essential oils. So you have like people who want great efficacy, but they like trade off toxicity to be able to use that. And then you also have the essential oils that kind of sort of work, but they also don't really work that well and they don't have firm claims. So where we sit, even though Picaridin is not exclusive to us, there's still significant room for us to run with and educate on this active ingredient. We kind of fit right in the middle. We've got the longest protection time at 12 hours on the market, but we've also got more of like a cleaner feel better for you kind of story about the active ingredient.

[Steve Holmes]

I guess my question for you, Cody, is why does it need to be more than a seasonal product? I mean, there's plenty of products that are kill it. Halloween candy, snow gear. I mean, there are pumpkin patches. I just did a whole thing about a very successful pumpkin patch in Nebraska. They're open one month to six weeks a year. I mean, I mean toys. I have a toy line for my kids company. Wow.

[Guy Raz]

In the world.

[Steve Holmes]

And we make most of our money on those toys between Thanksgiving and a couple weeks before Christmas. I guess my question is, is there a world where you plan 12 months of the year for four months of profit?

[Kenesha Lewis]

Yes. And that's the environment we're currently living in. The second cycle moving into third most certainly. We do have that always on approach on Amazon. We just do see a significant uptick during that summer time frame. But when you advertise for Big Ret, it's a whole nother complex scenario where you're advertising in Meta and Google and in these different channels. And oftentimes when the demand or the return on ad spend decreases so substantially, you got to flip those ads off because you're running red. So when you're doing big retail, I'm just what I'm finding, and this is my question is like how do we do it to where it's just we can meet that demand but always keep an always on approach so that the algorithms and those ads stay optimized so that you can find the best consumer at that time that you need.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

What I would say to you is as you look at your ad spend, that turn off, turn on the only other alternative you may consider, and I know you probably have, but you've probably got limited resources is what Grand Tonga has a brand. You build that package, you build that shelf space. What is that next product that falls under Grand Tonga?

[Steve Holmes]

Yeah. Citronella candles or soothing gels for bug bites.

[Kenesha Lewis]

I'm excited because I've got so much in queue to be able to produce and stuff that I just can't share just yet. You'll have to stay tuned. We've got a lot in queue.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Well, I would say it's a wonderful thing if you look at Chris Zook wrote a book about a profit beyond you'd core, you've defined your core, you've got a core retail partner. And then the other thing is looking at new products is always a good thing, but they need to come from your core. What are the things that are really critical? Because I'm, I mean, I don't know what it takes to manufacture your product, but you don't want to be diversifying manufacturing processes too much.

[Steve Holmes]

Most certainly one of the things is that the cycle, the sales cycle for this really starts in January, February, first of all, people are still going to warm places in the wintertime in North America. They're going to the Caribbean and Mexico. So if there's a way to create some kind of campaign around, always have this in your suitcase. Or when you're, you know, in early spring, you start advertising on Facebook, you know, beat the swarm, you know, get, get protected before the mosquitoes hatch or something like that. Right.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Well, as an extension of your comment there, Guy, I have no idea what I mean, you've now learned so much about retail. You might look really carefully because they have high margins at retail in airports.

[Guy Raz]

Yes.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

So it's that last minute thing. And typically when people go to those stores in airports, you know, they're not thinking price, so they're not as price sensitive, but they are thinking, what did I forget? I mean, how many times have you, guy, been in an airport and said, geez, where's my toothpaste?

[Steve Holmes]

Three days ago, Advil. I bought a bottle of Advil. I didn't even look at the price because I needed it.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Right, exactly. So I don't know where that fits in your distribution channel.

[Kenesha Lewis]

I can do that. No doubt.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

I think if you look at the business model canvas as another tool, there's two ways to get to your customer. Either a direct relationship or through channel partners. And you need to broaden your channel partners. And now that you've launched and got a target as a channel partner, that is always a great way to leverage into other channel partners. You know, you can use that brand to say, we're here, this is what we're doing, we can help you and we can do this. And there are chains that now run so many of those airport convenience things. I don't even know them.

[Steve Holmes]

Yeah, Hudson in Canada. There's a relay. There's tons.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Exactly, exactly. And I'm. And ideas are easy, Guy.

[Kenesha Lewis]

And I, of course, implementation is a bit more difficult.

[Cody Johnson]

Absolutely.

[Steve Holmes]

Cody Johnson. The brand is called Grand Tongo. Good luck, man. Thanks for calling in.

[Kenesha Lewis]

Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[Steve Holmes]

Thank you. All right, we're going to take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to the Advice Line line right here on How I built this lab.

[Guy Raz]

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[Steve Holmes]

Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking your calls with Steve Holmes. So, Steve, let's get back into it and bring on our next caller.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Well, it's great. Let's do it.

[Steve Holmes]

Welcome to the Advice line. You are on with Steve Holmes. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from and a little bit about your business.

[F]

Hi, Steve. Hi, Guy. My name is Kenesha and I am the chocolatier and founder of One More Cocoa, a gourmet chocolate company based in Whitby, Ontario, Canada. Our chocolates are inspired by our Jamaican heritage nostalgic flavors. We have creations like a scotchbond, honey and caramel popcorn.

[Guy Raz]

Nice.

[Steve Holmes]

Well, welcome to the show Kenesha from Whitby, Ontario. Where is that? Where is Steve? You know where that is?

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Just east of turkey.

[F]

Yeah, 35 minutes drive.

[Steve Holmes]

All right, so these are chocolate chocolates inspired by your Caribbean heritage with, like you said, Scotch bonnet. A Scotch bonnet chocolate, like really like a. Because that's a spicy pepper.

[F]

Yeah. Yes. It's one of our most popular. So it has a bit of honey and a dark chocolate. And you have the kick from the Scotch bonnet. It was a slow burn at first, but it's now become one of our slow burn.

[Steve Holmes]

Indeed, that Scotch bonnet. So tell me about. And so these are chocolate bars or do you make like chocolate bon bons? Tell me a little bit about the products you have.

[F]

So we make chocolate bars, Bon bons hot chocolate, which was featured on Oprah's favorite things in 2023. It was our trio set. It was our white milk and our Jamaican hot chocolate. And then we have other seasonal products that we bring throughout the year.

[Guy Raz]

Kenesha, tell me a little bit about how this started.

[Steve Holmes]

Were you in food and pastry? Is that the world you come from, from?

[F]

No. I'm a trained counselor that went into travel insurance when Covid happened. So just as I got promoted to travel across Canada for my job, we were hit with COVID as I was booking my first flight. And so while at home, I just wanted to do something that I was really passionate about. So chocolate is a big part of my life. I love it. I will eat it anytime, anywhere. I. I've had it for a whole day. Just that's it. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So I thought, why not chocolate? I taught myself how to.

[Steve Holmes]

How did you teach yourself? Like YouTube and stuff?

[F]

YouTube. Google was my best friend. Scrolling through social media. Cause there was not much to do during that time. And so I launched one more coco in the basement of my parents house.

[Steve Holmes]

Wow, congrats on that. And tell me a little bit about how the business is doing now. I mean, I'm assuming it's mostly direct to consumer through your website.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

I see she's got a retail store.

[Steve Holmes]

She's.

[F]

Yes.

[Steve Holmes]

Do you have a retail store?

[F]

Yes. It was a whirlwind of a year. So we launched May 2021. Then we opened our store September 2021. Because I outgrew my parents basement really quickly. And we've been there now going on four years.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Wow.

[Steve Holmes]

So you have a store in Whitby?

[F]

Yes, yes, we have a store in downtown Whitby. So we do our retail, we do online sales, and we also do wholesale and a Lot of corporate, so mostly corporate.

[Steve Holmes]

Awesome.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

And, and, and do you cook there too?

[F]

Yeah, we make everything on site. Yes.

[Steve Holmes]

Wow. And.

[Guy Raz]

And tell me a little bit of.

[Steve Holmes]

How the business is doing. I mean, are you guys sustainable? Are you, are you running into headwinds right now?

[Guy Raz]

Are.

[Steve Holmes]

Things just seem pretty stable.

[F]

You know, starting of this year was one of the best year for us. It's kind of strange with, you know, the chocolate industry, the way it's going.

[Steve Holmes]

But because prices are going way up. Right.

[F]

A 300% increase over the last eight months. But we've been very lucky. It just, I think more Canadians just want to support more Canadian businesses. So we've seen our best sales so far. You know, usually after Christmas, we see a major dip. We haven't. So, you know, now it's just trying to build capacity. You know, I am a one man show, so I do everything.

[Steve Holmes]

Everything.

[F]

So I'm the cashier, I'm the chocolate maker. Sometimes I am the delivery person.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Steve Holmes]

You have no employees?

[F]

Non employees. Just family and friends that help out. We are hiring this summer, finally. So it's been, you know, it's been a roller coaster. But it's been a great roller coaster.

[Steve Holmes]

That's amazing. All right, before we get to Steve Holmes and bring him in, tell us what your question is or your pain point that you're trying to solve.

[F]

So, you know, one of the issues that we had after being on Oprah's Favorite Things is how do we convert, you know, a viral high profile moment into a sustainable marketing strategy? It's great to say I was on Oprah's Favorite Things, but what does that really mean for my business in the long term? How do I take this to convert those customers who only came that one time to keeping them as long term customers who engage with our products?

[Steve Holmes]

All right, so you were on Oprah's favorite things in 2023, and of course, that was a viral moment, but how do you sustain that or take that momentum and turn it into a long term, more sustainable marketing strategy? Steve Holmes, I want to bring you in, fellow Canadian here, Kenesha, making chocolates not too far from you.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Yeah, absolutely. Congratulations. I love chocolate. It's probably an impulse purchase. How are you finding your customers? And then I'll come back to, to that Oprah question, but how are you finding your customers?

[F]

So I'm very lucky in the community that I'm in. So, you know, most people buy our products for gift, but we have those customers who come in every two weeks to buy just to have in their home.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Wow.

[F]

So, you know, we're starting to lean more into trying to really showcase how giftable our product is. And, you know, it's strange. We are on Oprah Everything in 2023, but. But we didn't see the traction until 2024, like late 2024. That's when people found out, weirdly enough, almost a year later.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Wow. Back in 2007, we were on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. And I'm gonna share with you, the number one thing you get out of a viral moment is joy. But you don't build your business off of it. You get joy and you get to always go back and look at it as a joyful moment. But you still gotta stay really, really true to those roots and the foundation about how you're gonn your chocolate into the channels that you want, into the customer's hands that you want, whether through a direct relationship or whether it's through a channel partner.

[Steve Holmes]

Do you guys. When you sell, right? Because a viral moment, as Steve said, is really, ultimately, it's really just about the joy and the moment. And we've done stories where even big brands, there's a brief spike, but it passes. My question to you is, do you have a way to capture email or telephone cell phone numbers now when people buy the products?

[F]

Yes. So we don't have paper receipts in our store. You can only get a receipt through email. So that's been helpful. And on our website, we do have an option to sign up for our newsletter.

[Steve Holmes]

So. But those are, those are. You've got to opt in. And I wonder if there's a way to make it almost automatic. So on the website, it's one thing because you're going to put an email address to get the order, but when you buy it in store, it's a little harder to get people to give their email addresses and phone numbers these days just because people are more wary of it. But could you incentivize them? Like, hey, you get 5% off if you give your email address or your phone number. And the reason why I say that is because email and SMS capture is. That's the long game. That's where you can send the newsletter. Remind people, give people opportunities to try limited edition drops.

[Guy Raz]

Join the insider community.

[Steve Holmes]

Early access to new flavors. When you use platforms like TikTok or Instagram, you're renting space. Basically, they kind of own your audience. But when you've got your own email or messages phone number, you own it. You can communicate directly with your customers.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Let me Give you a quick observation. I'm looking at your packaging. It looks great. It's fabulous. One of the questions I would ask is, do you have any space in that packaging to be creative with? I'm gonna say a QR code for a moment, Guy. And the only reason I say it is this. In Canada, we. Guy, you may not know this, but you've been to Winnipeg with him. So you know this. There's a thing called Rob, roll up the rim to win. And I say to you have a QR code that says melt in your mouth to win or something. I think if you could figure out how to utilize the QR code in your packaging and tie it to a promotion that captured their SMS or captured their email as Guy suggested using that way. I remember we rolled out qr codes in 2006 and they died kind of in America, but they didn't die in the rest of the world.

[Steve Holmes]

And now we're actually back kind of back. I mean, they are really bad. They're back.

[Guy Raz]

And I'm.

[Steve Holmes]

That's an interesting idea because you could do whatever you want with that QR code. It could automatically launch your little. You know, you've got a video on your YouTube page, on your page, a video that tells a story about this chocolate. Maybe, you know, down the road you invest a little bit and you show like the chocolate being harvested or the farm that you buy it from, if there is a story there. But, but, you know, with a QR code it can say, you know, put a, put in your email and we'll send you 10% off right away. And not everyone's going to use that 10%.

[Guy Raz]

But then you've got the email address.

[Steve Holmes]

And then you can. You're directly communicating with people. And you mentioned you have a newsletter. Tell me a little bit about the newsletter. How often are you. Are you updating it or writing something?

[F]

Usually it's around when we have a promotion happening or if there's a new product or any change, we do the newsletter. The goal is to do them at least once a month. Because I'm one of those people who don't like newsletters. I get annoyed if I get too many of them. So I thought, you know, once a month is more than enough. And then we have, we do see quite a bit of engagement when we do release a new newsletter.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

So another comment I would make to you just to be careful. And here's Guy. And I don't want you to think that we want you to become Lindt Chocolate. I mean, lovely to Become Lindt Chocolate. But I think you need to think about geotargeting. You don't want chocolates to be shipped and go bad and you get a bad review. So I think it's really critical to find that market segment within you. You're talking about people who come back to your store every two weeks to pick up chocolate. So there's a geo targeting strategy that I think is really, really critical in how you can figure out. And maybe to be honest, I know in your area there's lots of Caribbean restaurants. Maybe that Scotch Bonnet should be sitting on the checkout. A Caribbean restaurant. I don't know about you, guy, but if I walk out of a Caribbean restaurant, I'd probably buy a chocolate bar right away.

[Steve Holmes]

Yeah. And to kind of double down on that, I mean, a lot of businesses, especially in the early stages, focus too much on customer. Well, not too much. They focus on customer acquisition, which is the right thing to do. But really as your business begins to mature. Right. And you're in a couple years in here now. Right. You're about four years in.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

In.

[Steve Holmes]

It's really the repeat customers, it's doubling down on your existing customers where you're going to extract the most value to get new customers. They're going to come into the store and over time you're going to need new customers. But making sure that your existing customers are, as Steve said, buying more. Could you create a club where every month, not just a club, but these are going to be your. Your call. Call them your brain trust. These are the people who are going.

[Guy Raz]

To try your experiments.

[Steve Holmes]

Maybe you come up with some super weird flavors, you know, like, maybe you come, come up with like a, I mean just all plantains, all kinds of things right in there.

[F]

We do have one.

[Steve Holmes]

You do plantains. Cool, right?

[F]

It launches soon and we've done like a truffle oil chocolate bar. So I'm willing to throw anything in a chocolate bar.

[Steve Holmes]

But have a, have a club that gets your newsletter that's committed to buying like a wine club where you're buying a case every quarter. They're committed to buying it, but they also get first dibs on these new unusual flavors.

[F]

Because, you know, for our bon bons, we're also rolling out our card where you could stamp and you know, after 12 purchases you'll get a free box. Because most time our reoccurring customers are coming in for our bond bonds. So it's one of the things that we're rolling out. But I think they would really love a, you know, box of the quarter or month club and try all of our new flavors, because that's how I test everything. When they walk in the store, I'm like, do you want to try something?

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Yeah.

[F]

Yeah.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Here's. Here's my last piece of advice. Okay, so you're doing it all alone, so congratulations. But take care of yourself. You know, one of the hardest parts about being an entrepreneur is, and it's about passion and it's about hard work and all of those things. But we've heard hundreds of guys guess, and what I would say is make sure you don't forget to take care of yourself.

[Steve Holmes]

It's good advice. Great advice. Kenesha Lewis, one more Coco Inc. Congrats. Good luck. Thanks for calling in.

[F]

Thank you so much.

[Steve Holmes]

Bye Bye. Thanks. Steve, you mentioned something I thought was really important, which was to take care of yourself. And I would be remiss to say that you're a survivor of cancer. I mean, you've been battling it and living with it for over a decade and going strong.

[Guy Raz]

You look great.

[Steve Holmes]

Tell me a little bit about how you're feeling and how your health is these days.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Well, I live with cancer. I have cancer. I have a number of active nodules. They are slow growing, but they seem to be resistant to most other things. And occasionally they impede behaviors. And so recently, I had to have my lobectomy and lost the top of my right lung. But otherwise, I feel great. I do. I feel great. And I think I've shared with you many, many times. You know, today is the best day of the rest of my life. And this moment with these entrepreneurs has been a great joy. It's been a really a good, fun time for me. And so when you live in those moments, hey, we are all blessed. We can find reasons to complain, but we are all blessed.

[Steve Holmes]

Blessed. You've given some great advice today, really great advice about purpose and about the why. And if you could go back and give the young Steve Holmes, young entrepreneur Steve Holmes, some advice now, knowing what you know, what would have been helpful for you to know?

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Well, I'm going to tell you two things. One is, it took me about 20 years before I started keeping this black book. And the reason is that what I'm going to tell you is you may think you can remember everything. You can't write everything you learned down. That's number one. Cause you can't remember the things you've learned and things you've experienced. So write it down and keep it with you. But the most important thing I would say to my young self. Be honest with yourself and honest with others, regardless of the consequences you may perceive. Because most of the time you perceive consequences truthfully, that never materializes. And you should have actually just come clean to yourself and to others. Because in entrepreneurs, you know, we've got young guys who, you know, they got an inventory issue and they don't really want to tell somebody. But I'm just saying, you know, the reality is make sure you're honest with yourself because that's the only way you won't get yourself in trouble.

[Steve Holmes]

I love it. I love it. That's Springfree Trampoline Founder and Chief Activity Officer Steve Holmes. Steve, thanks so much for coming coming on the show.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

Always a pleasure to be with you and thank you for all that you do for young entrepreneurs.

[Steve Holmes]

And by the way, if you haven't heard Steve's original How I Built this episode with Dr. Keith Alexander, you've got to go back and check it out. We will put a link to it in the podcast Show Notes and here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

I decided to invest in some fundamental research and I wanted to ask myself one question. Did any retailer in America believe that trampolines were dangerous and so dangerous that they wouldn't sell them? The answer was yes. And that was Costco. The CEO of Costco was a man named Jim Senegal. And Jim said, I will not sell trampolines.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Ikechukwu Gweboo]

And so I made it my mission to try and sell Costco a trampoline.

[Steve Holmes]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for [e-mail] or on substack. And of course, if you're working on a business and you like to be.

[Guy Raz]

On this show, send us a one minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions.

[Steve Holmes]

Or issues you are currently facing because.

[Guy Raz]

We would love to try and help you solve them.

[Steve Holmes]

You can send us a voice [e-mail].

[Guy Raz]

Or call us at 1-800-433-1298. You can leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you.

[Steve Holmes]

And by the way, we'll put all.

[Guy Raz]

Of this in the podcast description as well.

[Steve Holmes]

This episode was produced by Sam Paulson.

[Guy Raz]

With music composed by Ramtin Arablouei.

[Steve Holmes]

It was edited by John Isabella and our audio engineer was Gilly Moon. Our production team at How I Built this also includes Alex Chung, Karla Estevez.

[Guy Raz]

Casey Herman Christopher, Chris Messini, Elaine Coates.

[Steve Holmes]

J.C. howard, Katherine Cipher, Kerry Thompson and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the advice line on How I Built this Lab. If you like How I Built this.

[Guy Raz]

You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcast Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[G]

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