How I Built This with Guy Raz

Taylor Guitars: Kurt Listug and Bob Taylor. From $3,700 Shop to Global Icon

Guests: Kurt Listug & Bob Taylor
Host: Guy Raz
Original Air Date: January 26, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Guy Raz interviews Kurt Listug and Bob Taylor, co-founders of Taylor Guitars, one of the world’s premier acoustic guitar brands. The conversation traces their journey from scraping together $3,700 to buy a tiny San Diego guitar repair shop in the 1970s, through decades of innovation, slow growth, and industry upheaval, to becoming a globally respected, employee-owned company with nine-figure revenues. Along the way, they discuss pivotal innovations, industry cycles, surviving rough patches (from disco to COVID), and legendary moments—like seeing their guitars in the hands of Prince and Taylor Swift.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Days & Founding (1970s)

• Origins as Tinkerers & Musicians:

  • Bob Taylor shares how he started building guitars out of necessity ("I thought, well, heck, I’ll just make a guitar.” – 06:27).
  • Both Bob and Kurt got their start at a small shop called American Dream in San Diego, each drawn by a passion for music and craft.
  • Culture of the shop: described as “a kind of a hippie setup” where builders rented bench space (07:13).

• Buying the Shop and Naming the Company:

  • The original owner, Sam, offered to sell the shop for $3,700 in 1974. Bob and Kurt pooled funds (with parental help) to buy in.
  • They initially tried the name 'Westland Music Company' but eventually adopted 'Taylor Guitars' because Bob was recognized as the standout builder with, as Kurt put it, “a great name for a guitar” (16:37).

• Division of Labor:

  • Bob handled guitar building and innovation; Kurt moved into business operations after learning basic guitar making.

2. Innovation and Early Struggles

• Guitar Neck Innovation:

  • At a time when guitar necks were thick and hard to play, Bob made slimmer, more playable necks by “just shaving the wood off till it felt comfortable” (10:00–11:00).
  • “Ignorance is bliss, man... If you don’t know how something’s ‘supposed’ to be made, you invent your own way.” – Bob Taylor (10:27)

• Surviving as a Business:

  • Initial years were marked by minimal sales and tough financial times—“painfully slow” growth, no salaries, and everyone doing every job.
  • Pivotal decision: focus solely on building guitars, not repairs or parts.

• Process Improvements:

  • Key lesson from a mentor: build one guitar at a time, not batches (“Bob, what would you rather have, 10 half-done guitars or one done guitar?” – 23:15).

3. Scaling Up & The Music Business Landscape

• Teaming with Distributors & Facing Hard Lessons:

  • 1970s deal with Rothschilds Musical Instruments increased orders but led them to undersell their guitars (“We were selling a guitar to them for $150...I figured out not to make love to every guitar that I’m building.” – 27:49).
  • After breaking ties, business productivity soared—even with fewer hands.

• Industry Trends & Surviving Lean Years:

  • Acoustic guitars fell out of favor during disco, punk, and early ‘80s. Even established brands like Martin and Gibson struggled.
  • Taylor survived in part “because we were so small, we didn’t know the difference between not succeeding because of us or the market” (34:54).

• Partnership Dynamics:

  • 1983: Bob and Kurt bought out partner Steve for $30,000.
  • The buyout “felt like the brakes were off” – allowed faster, more unified decision making (38:19).

4. Branding, Artist Relations & Breakthroughs

• Bold Marketing:

  • In the 1990s, Taylor ran story-driven ad campaigns (“some trees have all the luck”)—focusing on emotion rather than technical details (52:42).

• Artist Endorsements & Iconic Moments:

  • In 1985, Taylor made a custom purple 12-string guitar for Prince (“like flames around the sound hole...hot roddish” – 42:18), which later appeared in the “Raspberry Beret” video.
  • Relationships with major artists like the Goo Goo Dolls, Dave Matthews, Katy Perry, and especially Taylor Swift.

5. Taylor Swift & Taylor Guitars

• How it Started:
  • Scott Swift, Taylor’s father, relentlessly promoted his daughter. “Every dad thinks their daughter’s special, but my daughter really is.” – Scott Swift (56:24).
  • Taylor Swift’s first performance for Taylor Guitars was a trade show showcase in Anaheim for an almost-empty room. Years later, she would close down conventions with her presence.
  • The legendary ‘koi fish’ guitar was a custom gift for Taylor Swift’s 18th birthday, which she later played at the Eras Tour—an Easter egg eagerly noticed by fans (59:12).

6. Manufacturing: Evolution & Challenges

• Manufacturing Advances:

  • 1989 marked the shift to modern manufacturing—bringing in CNC (computerized cutting machines) for better, more consistent parts.
  • Taylor maintained a balance between precise machinery for components and skillful hand assembly.

• Competing with Imports:

  • As offshore, low-cost guitars from Asia flooded the market in the 1990s and 2000s, Taylor differentiated through playability (“we invented that”), sound, and brand trust (54:45).

• Direct vs. Retail Channels:

  • Despite the rise of e-commerce, over 90% of Taylor’s sales still flow through brick-and-mortar retailers (63:12).
  • “It’s like running shoes—you need to go to the shop...our guitars are mostly bought from retailers.” – Kurt (62:50).

7. Navigating Major Economic Shocks

• COVID-19 Boom & Aftershocks:

  • During the pandemic, guitar sales spiked (“a thousand guitars a day”—64:28), prompting rapid hiring and production surges.
  • After the boom, Taylor worked hard to avoid overstocking; they preemptively canceled $50 million in orders to protect themselves and retailers from the post-pandemic bust (65:03).
  • “The last several years have been at least as hard as any other years, going all the way back to the beginning.” – Kurt (65:31)

• Tight Margins & Cost Pressures:

  • Inflation and rising costs for wood, labor, and overhead have eaten into margins (“The very best day to buy wood is today. Tomorrow, it’ll be more.” – Bob, 65:52)
  • Ongoing forestry efforts (in Cameroon, Hawaii) to help ensure sustainable wood supply for the future.

8. Ownership, Legacy, and the Future

• Transition to Employee Ownership:

  • In 2022, Taylor Guitars transitioned to an ESOP (Employee Stock Ownership Plan), making employees the owners.
  • “One thing that’s inevitable is I’m going to die...I can sell my shares by accident when I die or on purpose before that.” – Bob (68:08)
  • Bob and Kurt remain on the board and actively involved, but handed daily leadership to new CEO Andy Powers.

• On Luck, Partnership & Work Ethic:

  • “As I get older, I see more [luck]. I’m less egocentric about it.” – Kurt (68:58)
  • Both emphasize the importance of their strong partnership as key to their enduring success.

9. Personal Reflections & Closing Thoughts

• “GAS” – Guitar Acquisition Syndrome:

  • The founders joke about guitar hobbyists who cycle through many purchases (“They're looking for the new one. That’s gas: Guitar Acquisition Syndrome.” – 61:31).

• Life Today:

  • Bob still comes to work out of love for the craft. Kurt is active in hobbies and supports his wife’s successful Bichon Frise dog showing career (“The dog has over 70,000 Instagram followers!” – 70:42).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Early Struggles:
  • “We have a bad habit of not paying ourselves. I want a paycheck every single Friday. And I don’t even care what that paycheck is. So we did our homework and we decided we can pay ourselves every Friday. And that number was $15.”
    – Bob Taylor (02:20, echoed at 31:00)
• On Guitar Innovation:
  • “Ignorance is bliss, man. …You make the guitar the way you think maybe it should be made.”
    – Bob Taylor (10:00)
• Entrepreneurial Mindset:
  • “This is my education. There are people in college right now studying...they’re going into debt. So how’s that different for me?”
    – Bob Taylor (30:14)
• Artist Moments:
  • “We decided we’re going to make a jumbo 12 string and it’s going to be purple because, you know, that was [Prince’s] color… We made it on spec. Prince came in and looked at it and loved it and bought it.”
    – Kurt Listug (41:03)
• On Taylor Swift:
  • “Every dad thinks their daughter’s special, but my daughter really is.”
    – Scott Swift via Bob Taylor (56:24)
  • “The koi fish guitar was sent to her for her 18th birthday… She called me on Christmas morning.”
    – Bob Taylor (59:12)
• On Surviving Market Cycles:
  • “[We] didn’t know the difference between not succeeding because we didn’t know what we’re doing, or not succeeding because the market was low.”
    – Bob Taylor (34:54)
• On Partnership:
  • “We move fast. We could say, we have to stop doing this because it’s not working... That was very hard for Steve to give up.”
    – Bob Taylor (36:31)
• Philosophy of Ownership:
  • “Invest in the inevitable.”
    – Bob Taylor (68:10)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Founding Story, Buying the Shop: 07:13 – 15:11
• Why 'Taylor' Guitars?: 16:06 – 16:52
• Process/Method Innovations: 20:48 – 23:36
• First Big Distribution (Rothschild) Experience: 26:08 – 30:11
• On Paying Themselves and Personal Finances: 31:00
• Artist Relations (Prince, Taylor Swift):
  • Prince: 41:03 – 42:49
  • Taylor Swift: 56:24 – 59:12
• Switching to Efficient Production: 23:15 – 23:55
• Growth Metrics – Million $ Milestone: 43:33
• On Surviving the Disco Era & Industry Lulls: 34:02 – 35:55
• ESOP Transition: 67:16 – 68:39
• COVID Challenges: 64:28 – 65:46
• On Luck vs. Hard Work: 68:58

Tone & Takeaways

The episode is candid, reflective, and full of grit—with Bob’s dry humor and inventive spirit matched by Kurt’s pragmatism and warmth. Their partnership's longevity and mutual respect are foregrounded. Neither shies away from long periods of struggle, the importance of small advantages in timing and luck, or the humility required to keep a business thriving through industry changes, global competition, and even a global pandemic.

Bottom line: Taylor Guitars’ story is as much about resilience, continuous improvement, and teamwork as it is about musical craftsmanship or celebrity stardom.