Vizio: William Wang

Summary

How I Built This with Guy Raz: Vizio – William Wang

Host: Guy Raz | Wondery
Episode Release Date: April 14, 2025

In this compelling episode of How I Built This, host Guy Raz delves into the entrepreneurial journey of William Wang, the visionary founder and CEO behind Vizio, one of America's leading television brands. Wang's story is a testament to resilience, innovation, and the relentless pursuit of excellence in a fiercely competitive industry.

Early Life and Education

William Wang was born in Taiwan in the early 1960s. At the age of 14, his family relocated to Southern California, a move that presented significant challenges. Adjusting to a new culture and language proved difficult for Wang. Reflecting on his formative years, he shares:

"It's hard. I have no friends, right and don't know anybody. It's tough as a kid." ([05:50])

Despite the obstacles, Wang's parents had high expectations. Encouraged by his mother's aspirations for him to attain a Ph.D., he pursued electrical engineering at the University of Southern California (USC). Although his high school GPA was modest—3.3—Wang secured admission to USC, laying the foundation for his future endeavors.

First Venture: Mag Innovision

After graduating, Wang joined Datong, a prominent Taiwanese consumer electronics company known for products like rice cookers. Initially hired for technical support, his knack for sales led him to promote Datong's computer monitors. Frustrated by the company's rigid hierarchy and lack of innovation, Wang decided to strike out on his own in 1990.

Armed with $350,000—$150,000 from Datong’s chairman and $200,000 from personal savings—Wang founded Mag Innovision. His objective was clear: produce high-quality computer monitors at prices significantly lower than industry giants like IBM.

"There was a golden opportunity to build something a little better. You can easily turn into 60 hertz. It's not hard." ([12:07])

Leveraging his engineering expertise and offshore manufacturing efficiencies, Mag Innovision rapidly ascended in the market. By aligning with Gateway 2000, a burgeoning mail-order PC company, Mag Innovision secured a substantial portion of its sales—up to 80%—propelling revenues to an impressive $600 million within six years.

The Downfall: Management Challenges and Market Shifts

However, rapid growth brought significant challenges. Wang admits:

"I literally outgrew myself in management capability. I wasn't a great manager." ([19:52])

Mag Innovision struggled with quality control and operational inefficiencies as it expanded. Concurrently, Gateway began diversifying its supplier base, reducing its dependency on Mag Innovision. By 1998, revenues plummeted to $470 million, and mounting debts reached $30 million.

A Life-Changing Plane Crash

In 2000, amidst his business struggles, Wang experienced a near-fatal plane crash. On Halloween night, while piloting a flight back from Taiwan to Los Angeles, the aircraft collided with construction equipment during takeoff amid a typhoon. The horrifying ordeal resulted in the deaths of 83 passengers, leaving Wang as one of the sole survivors.

"The fire disappeared immediately because I think the fire burned up all the oxygen in the explosion." ([35:27])

This traumatic experience profoundly impacted Wang’s perspective. He realized the paramount importance of family and personal well-being over business ambitions.

"The most important thing is love. I kind of differentiate love and passion." ([40:28])

Founding Vizio: A New Beginning

Determined to rebuild, Wang returned to his entrepreneurial roots with a fresh vision. Leveraging his previous experiences, he pitched the concept of affordable plasma TVs to Gateway. Despite initial resistance, Wang secured a consulting role that allowed him to invest in the burgeoning flat-screen TV market.

In 2004, Vizio was born. Wang's strategy mirrored his earlier success: offering high-quality products at competitive prices by streamlining the supply chain and reducing overhead costs.

"Simplify the supply chain and control costs. That was the key." ([46:24])

Vizio's breakthrough partnership with Costco proved pivotal. By positioning Vizio TVs as affordable and reliable alternatives to premium brands, Wang captured a significant market share.

Rapid Growth and Market Leadership

Vizio's innovative approach resonated with consumers, propelling the company to become the number one HDTV brand in the US by 2007, with revenues soaring to $2 billion. Wang attributes this success to maintaining low overhead—0.7% of sales—and focusing on efficiency, contrasting sharply with competitors who operated with overheads exceeding 10%.

"Our overhead cost was a fraction of what our competitors had. It was about efficiency." ([55:01])

Navigating Increased Competition and Strategic Evolution

Despite Vizio's success, the market soon became saturated with new entrants attempting to replicate the company's cost-effective model. Recognizing the need for innovation, Wang shifted focus towards smart TVs, integrating internet connectivity to create recurring revenue streams through targeted advertisements.

"We gotta have recurring revenue. How do we do that? We gotta get TV connected to the Internet again." ([58:19])

This strategic pivot not only revitalized Vizio but also positioned it ahead of industry trends, embracing the digital transformation that was reshaping consumer electronics.

Exit and Legacy: Acquisition by Walmart

By 2024, Vizio had cemented its status as a household name, offering a range of smart TVs, soundbars, and digital advertising platforms. The culmination of Wang's relentless drive and strategic acumen led to Walmart's acquisition of Vizio for $2.3 billion.

"It's like having a daughter. You want her to continue her own legacy." ([61:18])

While the acquisition marked the end of Vizio as an independent entity, Wang viewed it as a fulfillment of his vision—ensuring the company's legacy would continue under Walmart's expansive reach.

Lessons and Insights

Throughout his journey, Wang emphasizes the significance of surrounding oneself with talented individuals and the value of persistence in the face of adversity. Reflecting on his experiences, he shares:

"Luck is given to you by people around you. Surround yourself with smart business people." ([62:24])

Wang's narrative underscores the delicate balance between innovation, management, and strategic partnerships in building a successful brand. His ability to adapt, learn from failures, and capitalize on emerging trends serves as an inspiring blueprint for aspiring entrepreneurs.

Notable Quotes

• On Overcoming Challenges:
  "I couldn't take it. There's a golden opportunity to build something a little better." ([12:07])

• On Management Lessons:
  "I wasn't a great manager. I don't have enough." ([19:52])

• On Personal Transformation:
  "The most important thing is love." ([40:28])

• On Strategic Innovation:
  "We gotta have recurring revenue. We gotta get TV connected to the Internet again." ([58:19])

• On Success and Luck:
  "Luck is given to you by people around you. Surround yourself with smart business people." ([62:24])

Conclusion

William Wang's journey from a struggling immigrant youth to the CEO of a billion-dollar company epitomizes the triumph of perseverance, strategic insight, and unwavering dedication. Through Mag Innovision and Vizio, Wang not only transformed his fortunes but also left an indelible mark on the consumer electronics landscape. His story, as narrated by Guy Raz, offers invaluable lessons on navigating entrepreneurial challenges, the importance of adaptive leadership, and the enduring impact of visionary thinking.

For entrepreneurs and innovators alike, William Wang's experience with Vizio serves as a beacon of how resilience and strategic foresight can turn formidable obstacles into monumental successes.

Transcript

[Guy Raz]

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[William Wang]

So he started taxiing on the Runway pretty rapidly because I think he wanted to beat the typhoon. So I was on a plane. I was sitting number I think 22. I requested seizure. Nobody was next to me. So I was watching People magazine and we hit the liftoff speed 165 miles per hour and my portion of the plane was up in the air. And then I heard this noise like somebody knocking on the door. I say, what? What the heck is that? Obviously something really bad happen.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Welcome to How I Built this, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists and the.

[Guy Raz]

Stories behind the movements they built.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I'm Guy Raz.

[Guy Raz]

And on the show today, how William Wong lost his first business, almost lost his life, and then built one of the best selling television brands in the country, Vizio. There are a number of ways to break into a crowded market. One of them is through branding. You differentiate by creating a culture around the product. Kind of like how liquid death managed to break into the $300 billion bottled water category. Another way is to just price your product so comparatively low that consumers notice. So, for example, Harry's Razors, which were designed to compete against more expensive brands like Gillette. And this is the playbook that William Wong used not once, but twice. The first time was in the 1990s when he built a company that made cheap, high quality computer monitors. Even though big players like IBM dominated the category, William managed to undercut their price and build a pretty significant business. That is until the bottom fell out and the company went broke. But that didn't stop him from trying again. The next time was with flat screen TVs. In the early 2000s, a flat screen TV would set you back 13 to $15,000. But William believed that with the right efficiencies, he could build a flat screen TV and sell it for under $3,000.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

His brand was called Vizio.

[Guy Raz]

And within just a few years, he built it into a massive business that now sells smart TVs, sound bars, and targeted ads on its own platform. In 2024, Vizio was acquired by Walmart for $2.3 billion. And if all of that weren't enough.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Of a story, as you will hear.

[Guy Raz]

When William was already reeling from debt incurred when his first business failed, he experienced something even more catastrophic. A plane crash.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

In the year 2000, he survived a horrific accident during a typhoon which killed.

[Guy Raz]

Scores of his fellow passengers. He flew safely home a few days later and then started a company that would become Vizio. William Wang was born in the early 1960s in Taiwan. When he was 14, his family settled in Southern California, where adjusting to American life was hard. For starters, William barely spoke any English.

[William Wang]

It's hard. I have no friend, right and don't know anybody's tough as a kid, you know, I want to try out sports. I had no idea how to do it and of course I failed. You know, just difficult.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Were there a lot of Chinese kids around when you were growing up?

[William Wang]

No, I'm 78. Came to Huntington beach and little upscale.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Neighborhood now very upscale. But back in 78 was, I think middle class. But you grow up, you know, Complete outsider. But I imagine that your parents had high expectations for you because they made a big sacrifice to come to the United States and to start over. Is that fair to say that they expected a lot out of you?

[William Wang]

Well, having good, you know, Chinese parents, of course they, they want me to go get a PhD or something.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So.

[William Wang]

Yeah, it was always an expectation. So. Yeah, in high school, because the disconnect, you know, for a couple years my GPA was. It's okay, you know, my math is pretty good. Of course my English was poor and I think my GPA in high school was like 3.3. But respectable.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Respectable.

[William Wang]

Respectable. Yeah. So my GPA wasn't good enough for UCLA, wasn't good enough for Stanford, Berkeley, but somehow I did, I got into usc and my mom, she highly recommended to become an engineer because, you know, the high pay jobs are engineers and like $30,000 a year. So I got into electrical engineer at UIC, which is kind of not my personal favorite. I want to be, I like art, I want to be an architect, but it's all right, I think I don't know any better too. And just follow my mom's guidance advice.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah.

[William Wang]

Yes.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So. And by the way, I mean, today a 3.3, you would not get into USC, right? Much harder to get into.

[William Wang]

I don't even think you're getting USC at 4.3 now.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

No, it's very hard. It's a completely changed but, but, but a wise decision you made because you've got a USC degree, which is a very prestigious degree. And from what I understand, out, out of college you get a job working for a company that made computer monitors. I guess you were. It was like a sales job. Is that right?

[William Wang]

Yeah. No technical support. Answering your phone call, Technical support.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Okay.

[William Wang]

There's a Taiwanese company, it's called Datong. It's the biggest consumer electronic company in Taiwan.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah, Datong, I remember.

[William Wang]

Yeah, they're famous for rice cookers.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Didn't they have a commercial, Da da Da Tong. Didn't they have that commercial on tv?

[William Wang]

Yeah, I remember that commercial. Amazing. Yeah, we grew out with that commercial. And, and so I was hired as the first technical support slash customer service because first of all, I was born in Taiwan, so I know their culture, I speak their language. So they hired, hire me pretty cheap. I mean, it wasn't $30,000 a year. My salary was 1,750 bucks a month. And, and my boss said, hey, you're pretty good at telling the story of why the computer monitor should be better or why is Our monitor better. Why don't you try sales? So I say, okay, I'll give it a shot.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So you're really focused now in sales, selling Datung computer monitors. But I guess around four years into it, you're 25, 26, maybe 27, I don't know. You get frustrated there and you decide to leave and start your own monitor company. Tell me the story about that.

[Guy Raz]

What.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

What was. What was going on?

[William Wang]

Yeah, there were multiple reasons. I was 26 years old and I was so jealous. Every Saturday when they had this management class only the senior manager can attend, I say, how come I was invited? I want to know more. So I went to my boss, Can I do that? He said, no, no, you're too young. I already got promoted from like, nobody to director of sales marketing at that time. I say, okay, but you guys know nothing about this business. So I know better than all of you. I should be the next in line to be a vp. And then my boss's boss say, no, you need more time. And when my previous VP left and I saw Daphne, I'm the next in line, and he went to do something else on his own. All of a sudden he dropped somebody else to replace him who know nothing about computer monitor. And I just think he's a wimp. A wimp. And I say, I can't work for this guy. At the same time, I really fell in love with the computer monitor industry. And I know this industry very well. I know the problem with the industry at that time, the computer monitor. The spec on the monitor was fully controlled by IBM, Right.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Based on their specs. Because IBM dominated the PC market.

[William Wang]

Yeah, exactly.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Or IBM clones. Yeah.

[William Wang]

Everything's called IBM compatible.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Compatible, yes.

[William Wang]

They use the TV interlacing technology to do computer monitor. I look at it and say, this is not good for consumer. The resolution is too low. You're going to kill people's eyes. And I look at it as it's flickering, right? It's refreshing at 30 hertz, meaning 30 times a second.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And just for simplicity reasons, here, this is the frequency that powers the cycles right here. Yeah, right. And so 60 hertz would mean a better quality monitor, essentially.

[William Wang]

In short, you know, 60 hertz, meaning just for every second, each screen refresh.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

60 hertz, there's less lag.

[William Wang]

There's no lag. Yeah, exactly. So I couldn't take it. I say, there's a golden opportunity to build something a little better. You can easily turn into 60 hertz. It's not hard. You just spend a little bit more Money. So I went all the way out to the chairman of the company, Datong. He told me, who's your customer? I say, we'll build it. Customer will come say, no, we're IBM. Everybody else is not our customer. We don't want to build it. So he shut me down.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yep.

[William Wang]

So that's one of the main reason again, I left, I said, I'm gonna build it myself. If IBM want to build this, my company will build that.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

This is a classic story. You know, the young upstart has an idea. They bring it to the boss. The boss says no, and the upstart gets frustrated and they leave. And that's basically what happened. Right. And you said, all right, I'm going to try to figure this out myself. This is 1990. What did that. I mean, first of all, how did you even get the money to start a computer monitor? I guess you had experience. Now, you knew where the factories were in Taiwan. You knew, kind of had an understanding of how they were manufactured, but you still needed money. And in 1990, you know, to raise the money wasn't easy.

[William Wang]

Who did you go to at that time? Datong was also buying from other suppliers.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yep.

[William Wang]

So I got pretty lucky because I know other factories and one of the supplier with Bilfa, Daton, which I know very well, they're hungry like me, and they're pretty much a similar age. And he raised a lot of money to do their own computer monitor manufacturing.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So wait, so this person you're talking.

[Guy Raz]

About, this person you pitched your idea.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

To, he was like a supplier or.

[Guy Raz]

A factory owner in China?

[William Wang]

Yeah. So the opportunity I presented, they say I would want to do that. Right. So they're very entrepreneurial in spirit. And they say, oh, yeah, if you do this, I gave you $150,000.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Right.

[William Wang]

So he gave me $150,000. So I went to my dad and I put together $50,000. Like some of them from my dad, some of them from my own saving after four years of working, then after. So I told my boss and my bosses, I'm leaving. The funny part was my boss's boss, the chairman of the company of Datong us, he said, oh, we really like you. I think you're definitely worthwhile to invest in. So he gave me $150,000.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Wow.

[William Wang]

So, you know, 27 years old, I found $350,000. And I just started the business. Don't understand balance sheet, don't understand income statement. Never run a company in my life.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Wow. All right, so you start. So you Start your business to make competing monitors better monitors. It's called. You call it Mag Innovision, I think.

[William Wang]

Yes.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And this is. I mean, it's kind of a fortuitous time because 1990, I mean, people think of the 80s as a time when the PC boom really happened, but it was really the 90s when so many more people brought personal computers into their homes, in part because the Internet was coming and Windows made it easier to use PCs. Before in the 80s, it was DOS, you know. And so now in the 90s, ordinary people without a lot of skills could figure out how to use a Windows PC, meaning lots of people needed monitors. So if, you know, there was one standard, which was the IBM specs, and you could improve on it, you could stand out, I guess, right?

[William Wang]

Yes, absolutely. That was the crazy time in this industry. I mean, back then, if you can't build cam monitor, you would sell them all. And if you can't build. Oh, God, the PC person computer was in great demand.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah. And they're getting cheaper and, you know, so. Right.

[William Wang]

I mean, all things seem cheaper. You can't get enough monitor, you can't get enough memory chips. And the technology was growing that is such a rapid speed. You went from the hard Drive, went from 10 make to 20 make to 50, to just nonstop innovation in the 90s for personal computer. And this whole industry was. Was on fire.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

In your case, where were you selling the monitors? Were you selling them through retail stores or were you. Were you selling them to PC makers as a bundle? Like where they would just. They would sell it with their. Their computers?

[William Wang]

I found a really key customer called Gateway.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Gateway, yeah, sure, yeah.

[William Wang]

Gateway 2000 back then it's called. Because we're the same age and I used to go visit with them a lot, and we think alike. We say better technology, lower price. Better technology, lower price. And they were able to make PC cheaper by selling direct because they were mail order. They weren't E Commerce. There was no E Commerce back then. But they were mail order.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah.

[William Wang]

So they bypassed everybody by making the computer so much cheaper. So they became one of my biggest customer, and whatever I may, they sold.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So. All right, so Gateway is your biggest customer, like 80% of your sales?

[William Wang]

Yeah, I would say 70. 80%. Wow.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Okay. This is key because I think within six years, you guys are doing $600 million in revenue. So you really, like, caught a wave here. I mean, this was massively growing, massively Fast. You had 400 employees for Mag Innovision. Just very briefly, William, how were you able to make a cheaper product that was better quality. Was it? I mean, a. I'm assuming you were making these in China, so that lowered costs, but how else were you able to really compete against these much bigger companies like Tatung?

[William Wang]

Yeah, in the very beginning, we're just making it better. My customer made it cheaper like Gateway. And I keep on again, in the early 90s, the technology shift so fast. We have 14 inch computer screen, 15 inch computer screen, 17 inch computer screen. This is all happening in three or four years. We had 60 hertz, we had 70 hertz. So my engineering background, I keep on pushing the technology envelope. So in the first four years, when it grew super fast, I just focus on technology advancement and I found a factory to do it. That was the key. I mean, we're building everything offshore. So timeless is pretty efficient.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Back then, I mean, to go from 0 to 600 million within six years is mind blowing. I mean, the pace of growth was probably so fast that you had no.

[Guy Raz]

I mean, I don't even know how.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You were able to handle that because. And by the way, not always a good thing. Right? Because it can lead to huge challenges. Very fast. Explosive growth like this must have been quite overwhelming.

[William Wang]

Yeah, it was way too overwhelming. All right. It was a disaster later on.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I mean, let's talk about this, because obviously there's a wave gateway. 80%, 70. 80% of your business is coming from Gateway, which on the one hand is amazing. On the other hand is a little scary because you're dependent on gateway. Right. By 1998, your revenue drops to 470 million and then it really stops, starts to drop further and further from there. Tell me what happens. Is it just competition enters the space? Many more companies are like, wait a minute, we can compute against these guys?

[William Wang]

Exactly. It's a combination of problems. Right. The market got so much bigger. So efficiency became a key ingredient for success. And the competitor are coming in like crazy. We're still focused too much on technology and there was a focus on efficiency, so their cost is more competitive. So I was the only supplier for them. And they want to diversify also. So Gateway start to buy from other people. And because we grew so fast, we couldn't control our quality. But most importantly, I literally outgrew myself in management capability. I'm still a kid who think technology would dominate everything. So I wasn't a great manager. I don't have enough. My management team is not strong enough because I didn't hire good enough. Also, I was into too many sectors of the business. I was in the service business. Service computer monitor. I had an engineer lab designing smart TV in 98.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Already an idea.

[William Wang]

Already 98.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Way before its time.

[William Wang]

Way before its time when Internet was still going through modem and I sunk a lot of money in there. So I was, I wasn't good enough to make it to the next level. The management team was still challenged by me, by the dominance of entrepreneur like me.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You were a micromanager.

[William Wang]

I was a micromanager. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But I mean, but you couldn't see it at that time because you were young and learning. But obviously on reflection, you realize that because you were involved in every. I mean, look, there's different arguments that people make about this that some people say you have to be involved in every detail tale of the business. Some people say, no, you really have to delegate and trust your people. Sounds like that's where you, you landed eventually.

[William Wang]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I learned the hard way because it's. I mean, I was 30 years old. I don't know what management means and I don't know how to manage my finance right. Because I was. I thought money would come easily, but money didn't come. And I learned the hard way, paid my tuition. It was tough.

[Guy Raz]

When we come back in just a moment, William faces something even scarier than massive debt. A catastrophic plane crash.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Stay with us.

[Guy Raz]

I'm Kai Raz and you're listening to How I Built this. Maybe you've stayed at an Airbnb before and thought to yourself, this actually seems pretty doable. Maybe my place could be an Airbnb while you're away, your home could be an Airbnb like the place I just stayed at in Palm Springs with an incredible kidney shaped pool and palm trees.

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[William Wang]

I want to pay off my debt. Yeah, couldn't and I sold companies to the factory under duress.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

How much debt did you have at the time?

[William Wang]

I think we had 25, 30 million dollars worth of debts.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And obviously you had some investors you wanted to pay back, I guess.

[William Wang]

Yeah, well, the investor lost some money.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

They lost?

[William Wang]

Yeah, they lost. Yeah, including myself. I'm putting another more money so the shareholder values did not disappear and. And it was tough. So. So under the rest we had to startle with each supplier. I tried to, you know, from 98, 99 until 2001, I did nothing but sultaning devs. So I try to make money, pay them, make money. So three years I didn't do anything but putting your suppliers just to understand.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So you sell it. Underdress. It's amazing because a lot of people from the outside would think, wait, you were doing 600 million in sales just two years earlier. This is an incredible success story. And yet it just shows you how tough that business was that the bottom fell out and you had to sell it and you were left with nothing. Like you were broke.

[William Wang]

Yeah, nothing.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And you had to pay back the people you owed money to. I mean, couldn't. Here's just a weird question. Couldn't you declare bankruptcy and have those debts forgiven?

[William Wang]

I guess I could, but I don't. I mean, that's not my motivation. Right. I believe I want to do better for them. You know, we looked at bankruptcy, but I just don't want to do it.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So what was your plan to pay back the debtors, the people that had, you know, that you owed money to? How are you going to pay them back?

[William Wang]

I was making, I became like, for example, I know what's a new product. So instead of going through me, I say you pay me 2% commission. I use that 2% commission to pay you.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So you were doing consulting work for some of the people you owed money to, basically for free?

[William Wang]

Yeah, for free. To pay them off. Because I want to pay that off. And again, I know a lot of suppliers and they know I didn't do anything wrong, I didn't take the money or anything. And they still trust me. Just know that during that time there was a major transition and it was just poor management on my behalf. So they allowed me to give me some time to use my talent to make some money for them to pay all my debts.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Wow. Okay, so this is, I think this is like a period of four, at least four years of trying to, you know, doing consulting work in part to try and pay back debts. And I think one of the things you got involved with was helping one of these companies try and figure out like a smart TV and also plasma screen televisions, right?

[William Wang]

Yeah. Back then the plasma TVs start to emerge and very expensive.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

They were like $20,000, I think.

[Guy Raz]

And I mean, today they cost nothing, but back then they were super expensive. Meanwhile, I want to talk about smart.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

TVs for a moment because, I mean.

[Guy Raz]

This is the late 90s and I mean no one was really interested in them yet. Right.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But I guess you were right.

[Guy Raz]

You wanted to sort of make them or something that would resemble them, right?

[William Wang]

Well, yeah, I just built it. I say hey, TV should be connected to the Internet. I actually had a whole design lab. We lay out a board. We found a software company in Boston to do Linux based software for us. I found the chip supplier, put a CPU in the TV and connect it to the Internet. And when you turn on that tv, first page was apps back then. We didn't call it apps back then, we call it widgets. This is way before iPhone. The TV worked great but the problem was the Internet connectivity was rather slow. So it takes five minutes to warm out the TV because motor need to connect. And again that was 98 and lost all my money.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[William Wang]

That's part of the, part of why.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Your first business went under.

[William Wang]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So. All right, let me kind of set the context here because you are financially in crisis at this time trying to figure out how to pay back debt and also trying to figure out how to make money. I guess both of them are connected. And you are going back and forth between Asia and Southern California to do consulting work and to try and figure out different ideas that you could generate income from and innovation but none of them really work. And you get on a flight October 31st, Halloween 2000, you're about to fly back Singapore Airlines flight. You're in Taiwan and you're going to fly back to Los Angeles. Tell me what happens.

[William Wang]

Yeah, so the reason I want to get back that evening was because it was my daughter's first trick or treat Halloween.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You were going to get back even though you were leaving on the 31st. By the time you get back to LA, it was still the 31st.

[William Wang]

If I leave like 11:30, I'll get back here like 6:30. I barely make it. I can still see my daughter in the her costume in customs. Yeah. So I really want to. She's like four years old, three years old, so. So I say okay, let's do that. And by the time I finished my meeting at 5 o'clock I came out of the office, started to rain. I don't know what's going on in Taipei, the weather, I didn't pay attention but typhoon hit.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

It was very stormy that night.

[William Wang]

It's very stormy that night. So by the time I got to the airport, Singapore Airlines terminal. This is kind of creepy. There's nobody around. Most people are not in airport because I think most people in Taipei don't Want to take the flight because of the Typhoon. They don't even think. They don't even know that the plane's going to take off or not. But I asked Singapore, if you're taking off, I'm going to be on a plane. I need to go back. So I was the last person on a plane.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

This was a Boeing 747, obviously because of the transatlantic flight. So big plane.

[William Wang]

Yeah. So he started taxing on the Runway pretty rapidly because I think he want to beat the wind because what were.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

The winds at like 30, 40 miles an hour?

[William Wang]

Yeah, I think it's going over. So it's a little bit over 50, I think. Over 50? Yeah. I think the 747, 400 can still take out on a headwind like 60 miles per hour.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Right.

[William Wang]

Obviously he just want to beat Typhoon and he want to get out there quick. So we took out rather quickly. But I was on a plane, I was sitting number I think 22. I requested seizure. Nobody was next to me. So I was watching People magazine. And we hit what the liftoff speed, 165 miles per hour. And my portion of the plane was up in the air. And then I heard this noise like somebody knocking on the door. I say, what the heck is that? Then immediately I started leaning to the left. Obviously something really bad happened. The last tires of the plane hit the construction equipment and the concrete barricade where they were doing construction works, they.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Clips the concrete barrier as it's taking.

[William Wang]

Off, as it's taking off. And you know the. Now you hear everybody scream and you know the plane obviously came down and I was in the front of the plane came down. And so I lift my feet up, I lift my head up. That was my crash position. And the moment right after I lift on my feet, my hand, the fire came underneath me. Bright orange fire came underneath me. Apparently the somehow 60,000 gallon of jet fuel exploded and the plane was torn into two pieces right where the fuselage was. And the fire came underneath me. And once it hit the wall, I thought, okay, this is it, I'm going to get burned. But the fire disappeared right away because I think the fire burned up all the oxygen in the pseudo explosion, sucked all the oxygen away from the plane.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I mean, the images of the aftermath are shocking. I mean, it was ripped in half. And you were in the front half of the plane. 96 people survived, 83 people were killed in that flight. And you, I mean, you, I can't even imagine what that was like. But you, when it stopped, when you could Leave your seat and get out. What do you remember?

[William Wang]

Well, the fire came underneath me and the fire disappeared immediately. I couldn't breathe. I was just.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

No oxygen?

[William Wang]

Yeah, no oxygen. First thing that went through my mind was, I'm dead. And I immediately, you know, within half a second I thought, oh, wow, you know, I miss all my family, my mom, my dad, my wife, my daughter, my sisters, my brother, everybody. Then next thing flashes, my mind was, oh, okay. I had no more headache and no more stress. I'm kind of relieved because at the time my blood pressure was 160 over 130 constantly, because I was under a lot of stress, obviously because I was in debt. So that was what went through my mind in like two seconds.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Because you were going to die.

[William Wang]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And that was it.

[William Wang]

Yeah. So I'm back on my seat belt. The plane was still moving. I bought on my cvo, I said, I'm going to get out of here, I need to breathe. So I went to the first door on the right. I tried to open that door while the plane was still moving. I couldn't open it obviously because of pressure. Pressure of the plane still fully engaged. And now I went to the door on the left. When I went from the dweller on the right to a dweller on the left, the plane stopped. But the last few seconds I had no memory. I don't know what happened. And next thing I knew was the door popped open and the ring hit my face. The rain, the rain hit my face and door just exploded open. And along with the escape chute and the fire and the smoke rushing out of the plane pushed me, I got ejected from the plane.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

It's unimaginable and I mean, it's almost a cliche, I guess, which is when somebody has a near death experience, it does often change their life because it changes their perspective. And from what I gather that happened to you, I mean, here you were focused on these stressful things about debt and then you go through this experience and I have to imagine that this was going to fundamentally change the way you saw your life.

[William Wang]

Yeah, it's really hard to describe because I'm super optimistic always. I didn't really look back that much, honestly. It's kind of unfortunate. It is unfortunate, but I didn't want to think too much on that. I never really dig into my own mind. What really happened? What did it really change me? How did it really change people? Me? Because I don't think it's going to help me anyway. So I say just keep on looking forward. What Else can you do? What other problem can you solve? So I really focus on that instead. So, yeah, that didn't. Did it really change me? I don't, you know, I'm still the same person.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I guess my question is, did it change what matters to you?

[William Wang]

I know, I know. I really want to come back home. Yeah, that's one thing I really want to do during the fire. I mean, after the plane, that's something I really, really want to do at that time. I really want to be close to my family and that matter to me the most versus, you know, anything else. Yeah, you have money, success, a lot of problem to solve, technology. But I have to. Does it really matter? Yeah, I think the most important thing is love. I kind of differentiate love and passion, I guess. I went to Singapore Airline. Next day I said, get me out of here. I want to go back. It was scary for me.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I mean, I can't imagine like getting on a flight after going through that.

[William Wang]

Because, yeah, it's tough. I mean, kind of like I don't have a sweaty palm, but I had a pretty sweaty palm that flight. Yeah, the whole flight. And that's all right. I know. I just want to get back. I don't care.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So you get back and eventually you continue with your work. But I guess one of the things that you'd been doing, one of the consulting jobs you'd been doing was with your former customer, Gateway. I guess they had retail stores in the US at that time, and they wanted to sell other things besides computers because the market was getting competitive and presumably they wanted to build out their inventory, their product offering. And you suggested that they look into televisions, into plasma televisions, which were again in 2001, really expensive. I mean, they were like 15, $20,000. But I guess your idea was, hey, maybe you guys should get into the plasma TV business, but make them really cheap. Tell me about your proposal to them.

[William Wang]

Yeah, so I know high definition TV is going to be a hot item because US government was really pushing for HDTV. But high definition TV wasn't affordable back then. It was 15, $20,000. So there's problem. The problem is government want to push digital and digital TV are not affordable.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And I guess I should point out that the government had required this digital makeover at the time. They wanted televisions to move away from analog to digital video signals, high def. And high def was part of that. And so it required all manufacturers to move from analog televisions with a antenna essentially to a new type of digital. Well, there's Digital antennas, but a digital receiving digital video signals.

[William Wang]

Yeah, Government want to do that desperately. Their Mandate was like 1998-1999-2000-2001. They keep on pushing back because TV, the Sony and Panasonic of the world and the retailer of the world don't care. They're making so much Money on analog TV, why should they give away the digital TV? Right. They look at digital TVs, something belong to rich people. So knowing the cost of the components, I said, I think I can build this TV and sell it for like $3,000. So I was running around asking for money to fund my new project and I went to the Consumer Electronics show to talk to my friends at Gateway. And I say, how about invest in me? I want to do TV. At that time, Gateway had like 500 country stores, retail stores all across the US all across the US and at 500 US retail store, the person computers price point went from like $2,500 average to like $1,000.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Right. So I mean, at that time, PCs.

[Guy Raz]

Were getting cheaper for consumers, but not, I mean, not much cheaper to make, I guess so. So imagine Gateway was just cutting their profit margin in half.

[William Wang]

Yeah. So they were suffering because they lost 50% of their margin to support the stores. So they went to the consumer electronics store. They want to know what else to put in the store. And so I went to them and said, I want to. Can you invest in me? And so they turn around and say, how about this? Why don't you help us get into this place under the Gateway brand so we can sell it at the Gateway country stores? So later on they say, okay, in that case, it's, we will pay you 2% of all the revenue you help us generate on TV. And on top of that, we'll pay you $20,000 a month. So here I say, okay, I saw the Vizio as a consultant and my own money started from my second mortgage, my house, $400,000 to fund my business. I hired a few people who's been with me for a long time and we started the business.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So just to clarify, you went to Gateway to pitch them an idea on cheaper plasma TVs, but then you started a business called Vizio?

[William Wang]

I started the business as VI Inc. V Ink.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Okay. And the brand was called Vee.

[William Wang]

The brand initially was called Vee at that time. So actually my first TV was Vee.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Right. And the business was to make plasma televisions for Gateway under their brand.

[William Wang]

My origin of business was selling V TVs, but I had no funding And Gateway say, help us get into the Gateway brand. I say, okay, we do Gateway brand instead. So I changed my business plan. I say, I do it because you're paying me. So from 2002, 2003 and 2004, the very beginning of the Vizio Ve later became Visio, we were making money from Gateway. So I went to Asia, set out a factory for them. I went to Korea to get the component for them. I went to the chip manufacturer to procure chair for them.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Computer chips.

[William Wang]

Yeah, we did everything for them. And they just market the product which we help them build.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You were trying to get the cost of a plasma TV down to under $3,000, which would have been. Which you did. And that was kind of crazy. How did you do that? How were you able to get them so much? You know, if they were selling for 15 grand, how are you able to get them retail? Get the retail price down to 3,000?

[William Wang]

Yeah, the same thing I have been doing all my life, right. Simplify the supply chain and control costs. The supply chain at a time for Sony and Panasonic is Sony will build a TV in Japan which is very expensive. They will build everything. Right. They build even their own plasma screen.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

They were vertically integrated.

[William Wang]

Totally vertically integrated, Completely integrated. They build it, it's already a little bit more expensive than it should. And they sell it to Sony US and another layer of margin. So Sony US has big organization and they do Sony marketing, which is adding additional overhead. And Sony will probably sell it to a distributor. Distributor will add more margin. The distributor will sell to Circuit City at a time. Circuit City will market plasma screen is their ultra high end for ultra rich, uber wealthy people. The billionaire in Beverly Hill and they were white glove service and they would mark out like 40 points.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So what did you do to beat that? Like, what was your strategy?

[William Wang]

I found the right factory in Taiwan that can build a lot cheaper than at the time. The labor cost in Japan and the components are the same at the same time. We're vertically deintegrated and use that efficiency and we pass the saving to the consumer. So I want the Gateway say, let's do the same thing we've done before. You have your own retail store. You don't need a lot of margin. You go direct.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

When we come back in just a moment.

[Guy Raz]

How William's gateway strategy to go direct gets derailed, leading him to start a new business and revive an old idea.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Stay with us.

[Guy Raz]

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[Co-host or Interviewer]

How I Built this. I'm Guy raz.

[Guy Raz]

So it's 2004 and William has teamed up with his old partners at Gateway to sell affordable flat screen TVs. And they're selling well at first, but.

[William Wang]

Then by 2004, gaming was under a lot of pressure because their PC price went down even further.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Right.

[William Wang]

And they had pressure to shut down the country stores because I think each store at that time is costing them like $1 million a year to run. So for 500 store, that's $500 million. So they had to shut down the store. But when you shut down the store, nobody. When people buy tv, they want to see it, right? So they end up shutting down the store. Once they shut down the store, they say, we're going to get out of TV business.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Which meant that you were going to focus on building out your brand. Essentially, yeah.

[William Wang]

So I tried to license the brand fund and they don't want to license to me. And I say, okay, what do I do? Right. So I came up with my own brand called Vizio and I went to the supplier, tried to get them to build TV for me.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But just to be clear, Gateway would not. Even though they decided to get out of the business entirely, Plasma they would not license the brand name to you.

[William Wang]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So you decided, well, I'm just going to come up with a new brand name.

[William Wang]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

It's also an interesting time because most televisions in 2002, really, when you launched Vizio, were still big. Rear projection. Right. TVs, they were like huge, heavy things.

[William Wang]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

If you had a flat screen, plasma tv, you were a very wealthy person.

[William Wang]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So you start to produce these televisions. But I think you also did something which proved to be very prescient, which is you cut a deal with Costco. Right. That they would sell your televisions. And did that happen almost immediately that you made that deal with them?

[William Wang]

Yeah. So around, I think, 2004, 2005, I used to sell a computer monitor at Costco, so I know the people a little bit.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You had a connection there.

[William Wang]

I had a connection there. So at a time, Costco had no market share for TVs, and.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah, people didn't buy that at Costco at the time. They still mainly bought, you know, food.

[William Wang]

Yeah. Because people like Sony and Panasonic and they don't want to deal with Costco. They give Costco the leftovers because they want to protect their existing dealer relationship with Circuit City and Best Buy. So I went to Costco and say, you know, you guys are so aggressive in costs and your biggest frustration is that you cannot get good brand product for you. Why did you carry us? Let me prove to you that we can work together and disrupt the whole TV market. And they're very efficient because at that time, their breakevens is around 9.5%. And they don't want to make money on merchandising anyway. They just want to make money on membership fee.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Right, the membership fee.

[Guy Raz]

Yeah.

[William Wang]

And merchandising for them is a service for members. And with the same mentality, I say, I don't need to make a lot of money. I'm pretty small, but I can put together a great screen for you at 2,500 bucks. So we did a deal, 2,500 bucks.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

That they would buy the televisions from you.

[William Wang]

They would buy like $2,400, sell it for $2,500.

[Guy Raz]

Wow.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So their margins were. Wow, that's. And so all of a sudden people would go to Costco and see these flat screen TVs for 2,500 bucks.

[William Wang]

Yeah, yeah. It was so like a hotcake. And the government was happy because more people are buying digital tv and console is really happy because all of a sudden they're. There's Somebody in the consumer electronics space. I started growing my business.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

What's remarkable is that there are parallels between the Vizio story and your previous company, the mag, you know, the monitor company that. That really had this rapid rise and then a fall. But here, I mean, within a few years, you hit 700 million revenue, right? Vizio, I think, by 2007. So just a few years after you.

[Guy Raz]

Launch.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Was the number one HDTV brand in the US it surpassed Samsung at a market share of like 14 and a half percent. And from what I understand, that year you did about $2 billion in sales, which is remarkable. But what I'm wondering is, why didn't the big players see this coming? Samsung, Sony, Panasonic. I mean, why didn't they compete when they saw you selling these TVs at Costco and just selling these TVs like hotcakes.

[William Wang]

A legacy, I think their legacy relationship, their legacy business model, right? I mean, I pick a pounder like Costco. I mean, all they need 9% to break even. You got Circuit City require, what, 25% to break even.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

They had to make 25% margins to.

[William Wang]

Break even, to break even. And so Costco Clear was a winner. And also we look at inventory control like a hawk versus big company like Sony and Panasonic. For them to make a decision, the salesperson got to talk to their US Corporate. US Corporate got to talk to their Japanese counterpart, and Japanese counterpart got to go up that 25. I don't know how many tiers are reporting. We have one tier. So EV believes it's the right thing to do or do it right away. So it's about efficiency. And we have a few people, and they have a lot of people.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I read a stat that you claimed in 2007 that your overhead was 0.7% of sales. That was your overhead cost, and that your competitors, their overhead cost was 10% of sales or more. So your costs were a fraction. Now, here's my question, though. You saw this happen in a different business before, where you catch a wave, there's all this excitement, but then the other competitors come in. So I know you had this strategy of like, let's make cheap TVs, let's sell them through Costco, and then eventually Walmart and Kmart and others. But you must have known in the back of your mind that history could repeat itself, that very soon the big players were going to figure out how to make cheap TVs and go after your customers.

[William Wang]

Yes, that was a tuition I paid 30 for.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

When did that start happening? I mean, when did you start seeing some of these competing brands start to come in?

[William Wang]

Right around the same time. There's a lot of people try to compete in the space. A lot of new brand came in. It was a brand called Alivia. Some of my supplier even had their own brand. So I say, okay, well, we better be really efficient, really smart. We better have better product. I would better have a better management team. So that means I can't manage everything by myself, by technology anymore. I want a great team of people so I start to hire who understand, like finance better than me. So I start to spend a lot of time putting together a great team.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because Vizio sort of, you know, it. Your sales would go up and down and up and down. Like 2007, I mentioned 2 billion in sales, but then there were some years where the sales were three billion, but then some years they went down to one and a half billion. And I know that this is a tough business. Right. And so was the outside pressure on your sales really just simply a matter.

[William Wang]

Of more competitors, a lot of competition? Right. But we invest heavily into the company. I think that kind of set us apart. Right. I say, this time around, I'm not going to be. Money is not the only thing. Right. I want to. I want to make Visio Enterprise. So we invest in the brand, we invest in the people. And around 2008, 2009, I think, God, my competitor on Hogwarts getting stronger and stronger. Yeah. Sooner or later I gotta add more value, Right?

[Guy Raz]

And I guess to add more value.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You revived this earlier idea you had about making smart TVs, because right back.

[Guy Raz]

In the late 90s, when you tried doing that, it didn't work. But now you're talking about 10 years later, the technology is better.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So I guess you went for it again, right?

[William Wang]

Yeah, I went back to my roots. I say we gotta have recurring revenue. I said, how do we do that? We gotta get TV connected to the Internet again. I think instead of making money once on TV sales, the customer, same customer, probably come back seven years later to replace their tv. I say, why don't we just make money every time people turn on the tv? How do we do that? And I started investing into that TV in 2009. We started shipping the first Internet TV on a digital TV in 2009.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And did that really turn things around?

[William Wang]

Yeah, actually. And we got Hulu, YouTube and Netflix. Although it's not 100% of volume, people respect that. Right. So people say, well, what is the Streaming, right. We had the first WI fi TV and we had. The first TV was a little keyboard so you can browse the web. And back then with TNAB was Yahoo. They built the first operating system for.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

TV for us eventually, I mean, now we're going into 2024. I mean, you guys did eventually go public, but in 2024 you were outright acquired by Walmart. They bought Vizio for $2.3 billion. And Walmart, it's amazing. I read that According to Walmart, 90% of Americans shop at Walmart every year. Tell me about the decision to go with Walmart because I mean, you guys had gone public at one time you were valued at three and a half billion and then the value had gone up and down. But Pretty good outcome. $2.3 billion to acquire the business in 2024. Was it kind of a relief for you when that happened, when that offer came through?

[William Wang]

Well, it's bitter and sweet, right? As an entrepreneur, I don't think it's my intention to ever stop solving more problem for this industry. I love attacking making TV better. So when they came to us and they want us to consider this deal was a tough decision for me. But if I look at what's best for the company, potentially. This is big, right? Yeah, this is a lot bigger. I build from. This is way beyond my entrepreneurship now. Way beyond. We'll build a platform like last year we did over $700 million in media. This is not something all of my garages anymore. This is an enterprise.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Right.

[William Wang]

I think one of the happiest moment in my life, I told that to a lot of people. It's like 10 years ago when I walked into Vizio, I felt Vizio is bigger than me. Right, right. Which is what I want. I describe that to a lot of people. It's like having a daughter. I have a daughter. Right. It's like someday you're going to walk down the aisle for her with her and marry her to somebody else. I mean, sad. It's not your girl anymore. Right. But it's actually great because that's the outcome you want. You want her to continue her own legacy, you want her to start her own family, you want her to create her own chasing after her dream. So I couldn't find a better partner at Walmart to do that because they reached 90% of America.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Do you. When you think about, you know what, what you built and what you achieved and everything that happened, I mean, how much of your success do you attribute to the work you put in and how much do you think has to do with just getting lucky, you know?

[William Wang]

Okay, you need to define being lucky because I was very unlucky on the plane. Yeah, I was really unlucky when I lost my first millions of dollars on my first business. I was very unlucky when I had a great idea and connected tv, smart tv. But I was way ahead of time. So I think my definition of lucky is always worry more about other people surrounding you than yourself. I think the locks doesn't drop out of the sky. You can't stay at home and be lucky, but locks is given to you by people around you, right? And sometimes you never know who's going to make you, who's going to help you. I wasn't lucky enough because I didn't hire good enough back 20, 30 years ago. But now I surrounded myself very, very critical, very smart business people. A lot smarter than me. I'm lucky. Yeah, because I have done.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

That's William Wang, founder and CEO of Vizio.

[Guy Raz]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

The show this week.

[Guy Raz]

Please make sure to click the Follow.

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Button on your podcast app so you.

[Guy Raz]

Never miss a new episode of the show. And please sign up for my [e-mail] or on substack.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

This episode was produced by JC Howard.

[Guy Raz]

With music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Neva Grant with research help from Alex Chung. Our audio engineers were Robert Rodriguez and.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Maggie Luthar, our production. The production staff also includes Kathryn Seifer, Iman Mani, Casey Herman, Sam Paulson, Chris Masini, Kerry Thompson, John Isabella, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built this. If you like How I Built this.

[Guy Raz]

You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] surve.

[Narrator or Announcer]

Survey in the early hours of December 4, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.

[William Wang]

This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him.

[Narrator or Announcer]

We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

World and the suspect he has been identified as Luigi. Nicholas Mangione became one of the most.

[Narrator or Announcer]

Divisive figures in my modern criminal history.

[William Wang]

I was targeted, premeditated, admit to sow terror.

[Narrator or Announcer]

I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi Produced by Law and Crime and Twist. This is more than a true crime investigation. We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever.

[William Wang]

He's awoken the people to a true issue. Finally, maybe this would lead rich and.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature.

[William Wang]

Of our healthcare system.

[Narrator or Announcer]

Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery. You can join Wondery on the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.