A (3:13)

Started and double click on that. How does media help you win deals?

B (3:17)

Ultimately I can get on the phone with anyone and I really saw that that took about two years. And then I want to say about a year ago now, early 2024, I remember there were founders that had term sheets from super notable funds I typically try not to chase. I really liked the business they were building. I love their background. So I remember sending a note on LinkedIn and just saying, you know, like, hey, team, would love to meet. I know I'm pretty late in the process, but let me know if you have time. And it was. And since then, in any situation like this, Cold message. They respond at a hundred percent of the time. It is, Nicole, I've been following you on X for a long time. You're a hustler. I would absolutely love to take a call with you. We've got 500k left. Even though there's a lot of interest. Do you have time tomorrow morning? We have earned that right.

A (4:02)

Cold message.

B (4:03)

And now I would say that that's probably a response and a quick response time, like almost a hundred percent of the time. And that is to get on the phone with just about anyone. So that is what you get from the socials.

A (4:14)

And that also translates into closing as well.

B (4:17)

100%. It's a warm relationship. They feel like they know you. And so it's not like going up to someone like at a random coffee shop and like trying to like, get them to take your money. You know, even though that's normally what a first call feels like. So it feels like we skipped that part.

A (4:31)

What's the limits to that Scalability? Would you be able to Deploy that into $5 million checks, $10 million checks, or does it only work on small checks?

B (4:40)

So far we are proving that we can increase check size. And you know, I think that hopefully everything else outside of okay, Nicole, we want to work with her, but what does she really do? So, right. Even though I get on that first call and they love the brand, the next question just becomes like, and I transparently haven't been asked this in a few years, but I don't often get the question anymore from founders. Like, but, but why should we choose you? Which is good. So it means some things are working. A lot of it is also references like, I will have. I'm trying to win a deal. Some of my existing portfolio founders like call in and say, hey, you should really work with Nicole. She's been fantastic for us. So that's super helpful. I'd say, look, so far, fund one, our average ownership is 0.7%. I think our average check was around 150k. That was the $5 million fund. Fund two, our average ownership right now is 4.7%. Our average check size is around 650k. So we're swinging pretty like, you know, with smaller checks for around 5% of companies. We've easily been able to do that, no question. I think as we get into the $50 million fund strategy, leading and co leading most of the time and writing up to, let's say, $2 million checks, we will see. But so far the. The model has been working.

A (5:46)

Was that your biggest objection when you met with LPs and raising a $50 million fund?

B (5:51)

No, actually I, I'd say the. Is that the fund size was small. So I was really trying to go more institutional. And a $50 million fund is very small for folks that need to write 15 to 25 million dollars checks. I would say that, you know, I had Sandana, my anchor, gave me an interesting exercise and I ended up sharing this with a lot of my other LPs, which was, hey, Nicole, if you could layer on top of your fund to positions to date. So of the 12 to 14 companies you've invested in and your check size and fund two, which was six, let's say 650. If you layered on your fund three strategy and went back to those companies, which of those companies do you think that you could have successfully deployed that bigger jack into versus not? And it was a great exercise. And I think it ended up being that I would have gotten probably closer to 8 and a half, 9% ownership. And then they referenced every single one of my companies. So they validated that like, you know, they probably didn't say, Nicole said she could have put 2 million in. But it was a good exercise. And I shared that with every lp.

A (6:49)

You went public with your process and your funnel. So walk me through that at a high level.

B (6:55)

So out of the gate, I did what I recommend my startups do, which is get every investor in the funnel at the same time. And so out of the gate, I set up 80 calls. Out of the total 108 first calls. So I think the pipeline was between existing and folks I had already met prior to raising, that was 80. And so within the first three weeks of the raise in March, I had several calls a day, like seven to nine, I think was my max, some 45 minutes, some an hour. And I wanted to get everyone the data room at the same time. I wanted them to know that that was the goal of the May 1 close, the final close in August. And so that was what I stuck to. Again, no idea if that was going to work out, but I put my head down and like, that was what the expectation was in reality, it took to get to 50% raised and closed that two and a half to three months. And then from there, that remaining 50% of the fund. So 25 million took 30 days. I can speak more to that. And then the final month of that, so let's say we were four months in, was really just legal back and forth. So red lines on the lpa. Getting DOC signed is honestly tons of legwork and actually really expensive from a legal perspective. But that took up about like a month of it. So of the 108 calls, 28 committed. So we converted about 26%. I don't have benchmarks for other funds. I don't know if that's great. I don't know if it's terrible. It worked for us. It's a good number. We got it done. An interesting stat, 38.5 million of the 50 million are from six LPs. So we really have like four or five $5 million checks and then one $15 million check, and then the rest are 2 million, 1 million. And then a very, very few existing LPs that really wanted to come back in, but I've outgrown that. Wrote 500k checks.

A (8:40)

How did you get people to commit to the first close so quickly? In other words, what was your forcing mechanism for getting the first 50% in?

B (8:48)

So that's a really good question. All existing folks, I think there. So there were a few folks, and there's specifically single family offices that I had really gotten to know that missed fund too, that said, Nicole, no matter what, like, when you start raising, we want in for a million. And so that was three checks that came in.

A (9:06)

Was this after your fund two was closed? Was it at the tail end? They couldn't get their diligence. Why did they miss Funto?

B (9:11)

It was closed. They saw, I think, some press and they're like, we really want to meet, Nicole. And like, is there any chance you can increase the $20 million fund size and take more capital? And the answer was no. And so we kept in touch for two years. And so whenever I kicked it off, they were very quick to say, send the docs like, we're in. We stand by wanting to commit a million. And I, I catch up with folks. I try to at least two to three times per year. This is a relationship business. So for the folks also, I really like, I wanted to spend more time with them, so was really determined to building those relationships. So the May 1 is a really important date. And I tweeted about this. But so when I kicked off in March, I had probably, yeah, close by May 1st. So in that first, let's say two months or until May 1st. March, April, almost. Gosh, that's. Yeah, a little bit. We over two months in, I had commitments, like, you know, verbal commitments. They would. They people were in for just shy of $10 million. And I kept saying, so I had. Sandana had anchored fund one and two. But they took a little bit to let me know. So I told all LPs, Listen, I expect half the fund to be reserved for existing investors. And so Sandana, I'll never forget, calls me on May 1st, and I was nine months pregnant. And they said, nicole, we're in. We're in for 15 million, and our only ask of you is that you cap the fund at 50 instead of 60. As I mentioned, back in October, I had floated a $60 million fund cap to existing LPs and so they ended up coming in for 30% of the. I was, of course I'll cap, you know, I'll cap the fund. I ended up being way oversubscribed and they would not budge. But that was, you know, that was the process. And so I had already had. Again, I said the 10, they came in for 15. We're at 50%. I raced to a close, you know, three weeks after that. So I think it was the end of May. And I emailed, I got great advice, which I think we'll get into, which was send little drip campaigns, you know, the existing LPs, send them little drip notes saying, hey, here's the progress over the last two to three weeks. Do they feel they're close to it? That the timeline seemed tangible? Again, back to when this closes, not if this closes. And so on May 1, when Sandana called me and they committed and I knew I was like going to have that big first close, like, I poked and manifested. I emailed every single person that was still in the pipeline and just said, and again, this is a good forcing function too. And I even recommend my startups do this. People will hang around the hoop and largely because they're just not interested and can't get there. And you need to suss that out as quickly as possible and move on. And so I emailed every single person in the pipeline and just said, hey, here's the update. Huge first close on 50% of the fund. We're still marching towards mid August for a final close. Let me know if you want to catch up. 25% of people who ended up passing or maybe 30 passed because of the timeline. Some I just wasn't a big fit for. And then the other big reason why people passed were because the fund size was just too small and their checks were too big for the fund, which I also appreciate. I don't want a $25 million check for a $50 million fund. So those were a few of the reasons. One was just the timeline and two was the fun size.

A (12:19)

How do you suss out who's actually interested and who's just hanging around the hoop because they don't want to say no? Thank you for listening. To join our community and to make sure you do not miss any future episodes, please click the Follow button above to subscribe.

B (12:32)

So I guess what isn't fair, I guess, for LPs is that they do have their own internal timeline and so it is a balancing act. Sometimes they are not hanging around the hoop. They are actually hoping that they have another 60 days. And so in some cases I've had LP say, hey Nicole. They work on like quarters most of the time. And so they're like, hey, Q3, not great for us. If this goes into Q4, we're very in. And so a lot of them were hanging around the hoop hoping that this would hit like an October 1st timeline and we'd be a Q4 investment. And so a lot of them, when I was getting closer and it was directly within like the August timeframe that I had hoped for, they had to pass. And people communicate that or if they try to gatekeep their timeline because they don't want you to write them off, then they're kind of you force their hand. And so a lot of it was just saying, hey, we're still marching towards this, do you want to catch up? And eventually they just let you know. I'd say by the third touch point they give you an answer and it's really helpful, but you kind of have to force it. I mean again, sometimes they do convert. It just depends on their timeline.

A (13:33)

And your timeline is a fair characterization to say that the top quartile LPs are very independent when it comes to their decision making. And some of the other LPs are looking for signals.

B (13:43)

Sometimes it's hard to read through the, the, like the lines. And so I actually don't know that it dictated much like I think, you know, even when I closed my first institutional Children's came in and I circulated a note and said, hey, we're now at 35 million, we're almost finished or 40 million. It didn't rush anyone's process, which just told me that if they're going to come in, they're going to spend time with you from the start. And even if there's not a lot of early signal and if they're not, they're not. But I maybe a few single family offices get excited and they try to follow great LPs and I don't blame them. But I honestly felt like I, there was no like carrot that I was hanging that got people in or out. Even if it was new news on.

A (14:19)

LPs, you mentioned that one endowment told you that they have a 12 month policy before they could even invest. They have to know you for 12 months. Tell me about that. We'll be right back. But first a word from our sponsor. Innovation is a driving force in the world and runs through everything that Reed Smith does. Reed Smith is a law firm that combines pioneering technology with industry expertise in order to solve their client's most challenging matter. Their approach is grounded in collaboration with a focus on growth, efficiency and customization because every client's challenges are unique and their solutions should be too. I'm proud to partner with Reed Smith, a firm that continually adapts to meet their clients needs.

B (14:58)

That was the only time I've heard that. I will say though, and I don't know if it is fair to say that this is all endowments. I do know, you know, I was talking to a few other funds that got a few LPs and then they said Nicole, we closed them in four months. It was just a really tight or got to a commitment in four months and legal takes like another two. I don't know that it's that common though I will say endowments are just a different beast. I don't have candidly any endowments as LPs yet, though I've been getting to know several for the past, you know, a year and a half or two years. I find that in a lot of cases either my fund size is too small, like think a Yale or someone that's huge or the a lot of what I experience is that these endowments are trying to get exposure to emerging emerging managers but they have never invested in one. And so it's a lot of phone calls but no one's converting. But I don't think that's just because of my fund. I think they're just not writing checks yet and just assessing the market.

A (15:52)

You got a lot of help from other emerging managers like Charlie Ma and Byron at 12 below. Tell me more about that.

B (15:58)

Look, we are all incentivized to help each other so and, and we're thankfully not all raising at the same time but a few things. One, it didn't dictate, so I would never dictate when I'm going to go to market to raise a fund based on feedback from other GPs about the timing of the market and actually thankful I didn't do that because I feel like 100% of the time over the last three years GP say it's a bad time to raise and it is a bad time to raise since 21 and so you can't let that dictate when you go to market. Ultimately when do you need the capital is when you should go to market Again, as I said before, if I could have taken 18 months, I didn't want to be in a position where I didn't have capital to deploy. And so I went out earlier and then from there I did the around the world. And I called everyone that I knew that had raised and closed a fund in the past six months and because that's usually a good benchmark for the market is including, you know, know Charlie and Marty at Pathlight and you know, Byron at 12 below and just said, you know, walk me through your raise. I want to better understand like the process, you know, who is active. So something that at least I do with other managers. I'm not sure how common this is outside of my little bubble, but we all usually will share a spreadsheet and say, hey, here's everyone I've met with, here's everyone that has converted in our lps, here's everyone that you might actually be a great fit for because they're looking for A, B and C. And so a lot of us try to just share, you know, who, who are the, like the LPs that are active and frankly, who are the ones that waste your time? There are folks that are just not active that are out there, they want to talk and then they maybe want a lot of things from you. Like they want to direct, invest in some of your companies and they, you know, just there's some bad actors. It's not that common. But when you're raising a fund, you don't want to waste any time. And so like the guys I mentioned were all extremely helpful and saying, hey, Nicole, here are the top five institutionals, if you want to go institutional that, that are looking at emerging managers. We are one. They came in, they have more exposure this year that we think that you should meet. And we always help each other. I mean it's one, I can do the same for them. So I'd say every time I get one of these lists, there's probably up to maybe 35% overlap with LPs. So that's not, that's not crazy. There's still a lot of open relationships to build and that goes both ways. So where, when Charlie and Marty get ready to go for their next one, or Byron, I hope they do call me and say, hey, Nicole, who should we meet? But, but it's really common and it's very helpful.

A (18:15)

And how did you build these very trusted relationships? I think a lot of people would love to have these kind of relationships.

B (18:20)

I've taken a very community driven approach to all of this. Like I think it takes a village to get a fund off the ground and I think it probably takes one to run it. It's just different needs. Ultimately you are your network. And so I wanted to start get Dipping my hands into different networks and working with people that one are awesome. So I really, I mean there's plenty of fund managers I've met that I was like, we. That is not a relationship I want to build. And there are ones that deeply care about. And so for me it's really natural. Like I want to hang out with Charlie and Marty even if it's unrelated to the fund, you know, like I've invited them to my birthday party like and so who are the people I want to spend time with that I can learn from that. And also things are give and takes outside of its business. Right. So outside of helping each other on the fun stuff. And there's great emerging manager group chats where we're all constantly some of the best early managers, I would say some are now far from emerging and they have emerged but that are always talking about like, like you know, who do you use for legal on this? Or how do you think about opportunity funds? Like we're all trying to help each other, which is awesome. I think the other part is also deals. So if you want to meet everyone that's kind of either going to mark up your companies or co invest with you. And so how can I find like minds? You know the Charlie's and Modi's. I've done deals with Byron at 12 below. We were talking about a deal this morning and so you just, you know, keep the doors open and really just kind of like just feed these relationships because they're really important.

A (19:43)

Do you find that there's an 8020 aspect to your relationships? Like a small amount of your relationships drive a lot of your co investors and a lot of the help on the fund.

B (19:52)

Yes, I so Lee Fixels, a mentor and a friend and I'll never forget I was probably two years into this, I'm now three, so I guess a year ago. And when I first got started I cast a huge net. You know, I was like I am and I was all over the Internet as I mentioned, I was always posting still amazing. And I started to try to do deals with a lot of people, a lot of fund managers that you know, their names are splashed all over the headlines like the up and coming gp, you know, whatever. And I wanted to meet everybody and I wanted to do deals with them. And this is like again very, I think at Precede and Seed it takes a village on a cap table. I think as you scale you don't need as many funds. So in every round that is and so started doing business with a lot of people. And you learn pretty quickly who you do not want to do business with. A lot of it is just their acumen with founders. Some sometimes it's like from a sense of entitlement. But I've made introductions to my founders. Say, like, how well do you know that person? That call was like, terrible, or a lack of follow through or things that are really important to me, like, you're gonna get your shit done if you work with my founders. Right. Like, you're a reflection of me. And these introductions are reflection of me. And so I remember saying to Lee, gosh, I cast a wide net. And I met like, you know, I probably 50 other fund managers. And I was like, is it crazy that the list of people I trust and want to work with is probably like 8 of the 50? And he's like, no, absolutely not. He's like, I did the same thing when I was early at Tiger. And you know, you cast a wide net, you meet a lot of people, and then that list becomes like 8 to 10. So that's happening now. And I'm still trying to add people in and maybe push people out. But like, there's only a small group of people that you really trust. And that trust takes time.

A (21:27)

Yeah, almost literally 20%. So you've built up an enormous Twitter followers on a relative basis to vc. Walk me through how you built up your Twitter followers in the very beginning.

B (21:41)

Yes. So I was not on Twitter and using any form of social media outside of like Instagram personally probably until 2021. So I raised my first fund while I was still operating at a startup. I just had my head down, knew all of the LPs and had great access. So I was like, great, let's do this. We had a $5 million fund and I'm in a group chat with Aaron Frank, who is at the time like an amazing angel investor that fell into the deep dark side and started as a partner at Lightspeed. I say that in a loving way. And Alex Cohen, who's like a popular shitposter and now founder himself on Twitter. And they said, nicole, you just closed a $5 million fund. Like, you're a VC now. Like, you have to get on Twitter. And so I think I hard launched September 2021 saying, Hey, I just raised a $5 million fund. Like, who should I mean again? And knowing nothing about it, I think a quick take too, as I spent a few months on it was, people are absolutely nuts. Like vc. Twitter is unhinged, absolutely ridiculous. And I'll get into what I really think about it, but. And so my first tweet that really took off, and I was like, wait, I need to, like, keep pouring fuel on this. Was I posted something. I'd call it, like, my first heater. I had maybe 200 followers. And I said, can confirm it's 10x easier to raise a $5 million fund than to get 500 Twitter followers. And Alex and Aaron, Alex, the time at 100,000 followers, they retweet this, and it totally takes off. I get to my first thousand followers, and, you know, after that, I can't really remember. I would say I think those first 1000 are the most difficult.

A (23:06)

Is that a social proof aspect? Like, you get to a thousand and now people take you seriously? Or why are those first thousand so much more difficult?

B (23:13)

It's a human psychology. I don't know. I think you click into someone's profile and you're like, oh, they're kind of legit people. I know. Follow them. Because if you have a thousand followers, you have at least one mutual with almost, like, everyone second degree. And so I think when they see that, like, there's at least one or two mutuals, you become more legitimate. I feel like that thousand just sticks out on Twitter. Um, and so that maybe that's just a personal take, but it felt like that was the hardest. And then after that, like, it felt like it was much faster to get. To get going. Um, I think the. A few things, and these are, I don't know, hot takes. Maybe I'll regret saying later, but, like, vc, Twitter is kind of broken up into, like, I'd say, like, three different Personas, like, Pending four, which maybe is the bucket I fall into. One, you have, like, the deeply insecure billionaires who argue with each other all the time. And then you have, I think, two, they're either associates or partners with, like, a tiny p who just shadow the rich guys and try to be bullies on the Internet who pitch the same book and call themselves contrarian. And then you have the, like, total sweethearts who are the partners who, like, know that building a brand really matters, but they're so uncomfortable posting online, and they are way too afraid to look stupid and to be judged that they literally just post humbled and honored to be a part of, like, series A. And then that. That's the Twitter feed. I'd say, what is, I guess, totally, like, original and really interesting or the really authentic accounts? I don't know if I can, like, say that I'm a part of this, but maybe it's What I'm going for where I just don't give a shit, right? Like if people, and by that I mean I don't mind getting beat up on the Internet. What I like about Twitter is that people tell you you're an idiot and that you're wrong and in some cases they're right. And that's refreshing. I learned something like I'll go rethink, you know what, whatever it is that I posted, I have the courage to be myself, which I think is actually like the, the like very, very limited in the world. And so for better or worse, like I. People follow me because I've been open and I've taken an approach that's I'm going to build this firm in public. I'm going to say what I think. I'm going to say that I don't really buy that there's a lot of money to be made in AI and I'll stand by it. And someone can point back to that and say, you know, she was wrong. I the benefit of doing what I do and never working at a big fund is that I don't have like an issue with groupthink and I don't sit around a big firms and weekly partner meetings and get brainwashed by like the only things that the partners, they can work at the fund. And look, founders love it. So the most important thing is I am relatable to founders because I'm building something, it's really hard and I'm saying what I think along the way, even if I might be wrong. And they feel like that it's, it's relatable. And frankly, so do other VCs. Like, you know, so a lot of times I get messages like thanks for saying, you know what, I can't say. So whatever. We ride at midnight.

A (25:49)

What would be your advice to somebody trying to build out their Twitter brand today?

B (25:52)

I would say the people that really want to do it and are going to be just really good at it are the people that are just that don't even have to ask me. I, and I say that because usually the people and GPS by the way, reach out a lot. Either they have their own funds or they're at like multi stage funds. Like Nicole, I know this is important, like how do I do it? Those people that were in that third bucket, the short answer is if you have to ask that, you're going to be too uncomfortable to probably do it because it is cringy and I think cringe scales. But a lot of folks are really afraid of that and I, I got a text from, I won't put him on blast, but like a notable seed fund GP, one of my LPs, and he said to you the other night, he's like, nicole, he's like, we're doing the podcast thing. I'm leaning in on socials. Like, you were totally right. He's like, cringe scales. Basically alluding to my content probably. And he like, you were right like two years ago. Like, this is an area where you have to invest. It's the future. And I've always said that. And, and so, I mean, the short of it is if you do need the advice on how to have better tweets, maybe it's working, but it's not like taking off is. You have to have something unique to say and have an opinion. And so a lot of people will tweet, you know, the sky is blue. It's like, great. Well, how do you feel about that? Is that shitty? Is that amazing? Like, have an opinion. You don't have to be relatable, but try to be to the masses. As in, stick to your niche. So if it's VCs, don't break up. Don't ever post about anything other than the VC for probably the first 12 months. Like, I've gotten more personal. I'll talk about family, I'll talk about things where people get to know me. But you really don't want to go off script for a little while and keep them short. So people writing novels and trying, like, no one has time for someone they don't know to read three paragraphs. They have time to read, you know, like two sentences. So stick to those things.

A (27:32)

And do you have a power law to your posts? Like, do like 1% of your posts end up. Up leading to most of your growth, or is it more linear?

B (27:40)

Definitely more linear. I don't even think back to like notable moments, you know, like, wait, I announced a new fund. I'll get maybe a thousand new or 2000 more followers, which is always like, you know, it's big news. If I, yeah, I would say from a single post, maybe the most followers I've gotten is like 2 to 3,000. I think even there was like the Keith or boy third tier VC thing that happened a couple years ago. And I think there was probably 2,500 or 3,000 followers that came from that post. But right now we're close to a hundred thousand. So that's not crazy. I'd say on average, I like there's a stat counter. I follow on average I think I grow between like seventy and a hundred like followers a day if I post every day. So it's just consistent. It takes time. I mean everyone thinks there's overnight success. It's taken me almost three years to get to a hundred thousand followers and that's posting one to two times a day for that long.

A (28:28)

Well Nicole, we've been in contact since I think roughly May. You were in your 9th month month pregnancy, raising your fund. You certainly did not disappoint. How could people follow you and get in touch?

B (28:38)

So one I'm super active on X and my DMs are open so that's probably the fastest path to a response and my handle is just nwishoff so my last name I. You can shoot me a DM on LinkedIn as well you know. Nicolewishoff and my email is nicoleishoff.com so not really creative here but would love to be in touch and again DMs are open everywhere.

A (28:59)

Great, thank you Nicole, of course.

B (29:00)

Thank you so much for having me.