David (3:21)

That was exactly the question I was going to ask, which is how do you get people in that first close without doing fee concessions? I'm sure there's some tricks to trade. What are some of those tools that GBS have in order to have a very successful first close?

Alex (3:33)

Back to the point of like, preparation. Right. And I think it starts with running a really smart process and going in in terms of just, you know, telling a great story. Right. You know, before you go into those first meetings, before you start going out to the market, really assessing, ideally with third party validation, like, what are your investors, you know, think you're doing well, that they want you to lean into? What do they want to see more of? What are they, what are they concerned about? Right. What are you doing that want you to stop doing? Or what are the shifts they want to see and using that to, you know, inform the narrative. And so I think, you know, in any market, investors are obviously, they're focused on returns, but I think in this market in particular, having a really strong narrative is sort of more acute than ever. It's broadly being really well prepared in terms of how you go in and having the best possible Story, right? That's, that's sort of point one. I think the other bit, you know, is, is bear hug your existing LPs, right? They should form the foundation of that first close every time. And I think, you know, we see this a lot. I think GPS can often. It's a common mistake we see GPS make is, is they will, even with their close relationships, they can, you know, it seem an interesting. Take it for granted. Our rule is like, you know, don't ask, don't, don't assume, ask, right. You know, validate that your investors are going to be there, that they're ready to go. Clearly communicate what your plan is and make sure you've kind of got that, that bedrock built up. And then I think it's about, you know, this is where a good agent can really add value in terms of attracting new capital into a first close. Because we don't, you know, we don't want the first close to be reliant exclusively on the existing. And I think that's about if you've got a great, you got a great story and a great, great product, right. And you've got existings, you know, lined up and supportive, that's about going out and communicating to the market that this is in our experience like that, you know, And I think that this is a raise that's going to go quickly, I think back to your, back to your fundamental question, like how do you get people to move early? Well, one way is just articulating you need that, the need to move early to secure an allocation.

David (5:29)

Right.

Alex (5:29)

I think you only get credibility with LPs with that message if you've earned it over time. So from like our perspective, I think with for example, like our sales team, our LP coverage team, and it's taken time. I think they, the market has seen us at Evercore work on a number of oversubscribed processes. So I think when we go to investors and tell them, look there, this might not be a one and done close and you know, often that's not the plan. There will be a second close. But what we can tell you for certain is there's going to be really strong, there is really strong demand for this fund. And if you're interested, you should, you should be in the first close because that's going to be the best possible way to protect your allocation. Prioritize that work early. And again, I thought it's not, there's no silver bullet there. I think it's about credibility of relationships, which takes time to build and getting people also Again, back to the really excited about the story. Obviously that's where it starts. Now there are other carrots and things that we could talk about like you know, obviously things like co investment and other things that can, you know, for certain LPs and programs be really meaningful to move the needle for participating in a first close to get your, your sort of PPM to the top of the stack. But I go back to it. I really think it's about a great story and credible relationships.

David (6:38)

So many gems to unpack there. You talk a lot about what's upstream to wanting the LPs to close. I want to actually go downstream to the LPs and their psychology. Rastax Real talk. Do you want the LPs to be almost driven by fear of missing out more than excitement? Is the A plus version of what the LP walks away from the meeting in is we need to focus on this fund or we won't get in or is there something above that that we're so excited about that is fear the driving emotion behind why LPs are going to invest in a first clubs today? Just brass tack.

Alex (7:09)

I don't think LPs invest in a fund out of fear. It's similar, sort of similar. Like I also don't think LPs buy things for reduced fees or to save on costs. They, they, they invest in funds because they're excited about the return, right, the return potential. So I think I'd, I'd actually say it starts from the standpoint of getting people excited and convinced that this is a GP that is doing something different, you know, that is, that is doing something that is repeatable, right. And fundamentally again is bringing, I think particularly in this market, right, where, which is so competitive, where there's this massive oversupply of gps, right. There's sort of a three to one oversupply right now of GPS versus the LP capital going out. It's about articulating what they're going to bring to the portfolio that the LP does not already have or how they are going to upgrade exposure that the LP has. So I do think it's grounded not so much in fear, but first and foremost in, in excitement to participate in the fund. Because, you know, it's incredibly high quality and it brings something that they are, it helps them solve a problem that they have, it brings a solution that they are looking for in terms of the exposure. And then I think in terms of, you know, your comment on fear. I, I don't know if I'd use the word fear. It's actually good advice because, you know, they have to make the, the LP has to make that decision that they want to be in the fun on the front. They're excited enough or they think they're going to get there enough to, to engage in real diligence. Right. And then I think you're, we're talking about timing and bringing them forward. The way our coverage team would think about it. Look like on, on the LP side of our business, our salespeople like their least favorite thing to do is while it's great if we have a fundraise that goes really well and is over, has an oversubscribed final close, the worst call a salesperson on my team has to make is to an LP to say, you know, you're not going to get your full allocation. Right. And so I think that they've internalized that over time and it's actually good advice when we know a raise is going to go quickly to move early because that's a way for an LP to differentiate themselves, just show that conviction early with the GP and to put them in, in a better position to sort of get what they want in terms of exposure.

David (9:12)

That's where credibility comes in. Right. Because you're playing recurring games with the same LPs. If you say this is the hottest fund and then they short come 50% short of target, you're not going to get another call with that LP where the gp, they're willing to bet their entire reputation sometimes out of desperation and they'll say and do anything sometimes to get to that close. Yeah.

Alex (9:31)

I think using smoking mirrors and deception is you might win the battle, but you're going to lose the war.

David (9:35)

Right.

Alex (9:36)

I just, I think that really backfires for G and certainly for agents over time. So I do think this all starts with the credibility of the relationship we have with, with the lp. Right. And if we, if we tell them something's going to happen and it doesn't happen, they're going to remember that. And that's taken, that takes a long time to develop that, that credibility. And I wouldn't say that's something we were born with or had when we started the business 16 years ago. I think it comes down to the M.O. like, you know, who you represent on the GP side. You're only as good as who you represent. So really being thoughtful about who you partner with and picking funds that people want to buy. Right. And then develop list, you know, developing through reps and over years credibility and trust with the, with the LP relationship that if, if you say this is happening, that that's the reality and that, you know, these are, these coverage relationships are always, always built on trust and transparency. And that takes time to build.

David (10:29)

What's that quote? Reputation takes decades to build and could be lost in a single day. I want to double click on this. Excitement versus fear. I think LP psychology is such an underrated aspect. What you're essentially saying is that it's sequential, is that the excitement brings them to the table. In psychology, you call this endowment effect. So they kind of see that fund already in their portfolio and then FOMO will actually maybe get them to work on that and prioritize working on that fund versus another fund.

Alex (10:56)

I think that's right. I think that's a good, I think that's a good assessment. Again, it definitely starts with they gotta be excited about the return they're gonna make on the fund. Right. That's why people, that's why people invest. That's why people ultimately come into a first close. And you're, and you're right, there's the FOMO element.

David (11:11)

They.

Alex (11:11)

I think I'll look. These are professional investors and they know how the world works and they know how the market's working right now. And I think they can sniff out. Right. It's a, it's a very bifurcated market right now. The Tale of Two Cities, right. It's way more GPS raising capital and then capital is available. So I think LPs to their credit also have a good sense for is something going to move quickly and do they need to be there?

David (11:34)

And they know that they've also had the reps, they've also heard the narratives. They're seeing everything from, from the buy side.

Alex (11:39)

Yeah, that's right.

David (11:41)

It's hard for them not, not also to get the same pattern mention.

Alex (11:43)

We all lose through trial and error. And they've probably, you know, we've certainly, we've made every mistake in the book over 16 years and we've learned from it. And I think limited partners are this, are, are no different. They, they've probably felt like that. I'm sure they've had experiences where they felt like they had more time. And that's understandable in this market. I mean, the average fundraise right now is taking, I think, 17, 17 months. Right. So with most GPS, you do have more time. Really talented LPs, experienced LPs are, are able to also make their own assessment of like when that's the case and, and when they need to move.

David (12:13)

You said something really Interesting. You said that it's not just about the return, it's about the narrative, which sounds, sounds reasonable. But then why isn't it about the return? Why isn't about the risk adjusted return? Could you double click on that?

Alex (12:26)

Yeah, well, look, I think returns, look, performance, let's be clear, like performance is, is, is, is pretty crucial, right? And that's always been the case and it still is. You, you know, we're not, we always.

David (12:37)

Say my partner table stows.

Alex (12:39)

Yeah, and, and, and we're not alchemists here at Evercore, right? We, we can't turn led to gold, right? You have to have, you have to have good performance, right? Or, or, or if you're a first time fund, you have to be able to articulate the promise of good reform performance at least. Being able to articulate an investment strategy has been important. But I think what's just changed is that the, as I talked about, the market's just so much bigger and more crowded now, right? And that supply, demand, mis imbalance is so massive that I think nailing the narrative is more, is, is just more important than ever. And you know, I, I define that as like, you know, again, fundraising, storytelling. You got sort of 60 minutes, right, with an LP to make that first impression. And I, I, I, you know, in my role, I, I probably meet a dozen managers a month. Most LPs are certainly meeting a dozen a week, maybe, maybe half a dozen a day, right? And nailing the narrative in terms of what does success look like? I think I always say to gps, it's like nailing the narrative means when the LP walks out of that room, you know, your fund xyz, first of all, they can tell you after Hearing that, that 60 minute pitch exactly what a Fund XYZ deal looks like, right? Very clearly. Like they understand that and they walk out of that room understanding how you are differentiated, right? How what you're doing is repeatable. And I think that's really important. You know, not sure you didn't just have one great deal, but you've got a playbook that's sort of hard coded in their mind at the end of the meeting, how you're going to continue to achieve the performance of the past with the performance of the future, right? And that you've really just connected with them early. I think, you know, nailing the narrative is I always say to gps, like, I would ask gps, like, do you have, do you have one to two slides in your pitchbook that just clearly articulates the first few things that I just said if you don't, it's probably time for a rework. You know, you need to. A lot of GPS will bury the lead and sort of plod through the story. And I think nailing the narrative is like, you've got to hook people in the first five minutes, you know, to get them excited about, or you risk losing them for the next 55.

David (14:43)

Right. So in another way, if the LP is meeting dozens of gps a week, they have to conserve their mental energy on the gps that are most worth their energy, and you have to hook them early or else they kind of go into this default. Default data.

Alex (14:56)

That's right.

David (14:56)

Barely.

Alex (14:57)

That's right. And look, I'd say the other, like the narrative is a topic I could, obviously I talk about a lot. And one of the things that we see is I think gps often feel like they're telling a really different differentiated story and there's. Because they're so close to it. But for us, you know, for RC, meeting a lot of GPs, for LPs who meet so many more, you're. For so many GPs, you're actually saying the same thing as the person who was just in the room before you, you know, And I think that a lot of the work that we do and I think is important for any GP to do in terms of, you know, the doing a 360 assessment on themselves ahead of a fundraise is really pulling out. What are you actually doing that's different. Right. Existing LPs in a fund, you know, when we talk to them, they can often articulate a manager's differentiation better than the G. Better than the manager. Right. Because as I said, they're meeting a ton of funds, they have other GPs in their portfolio they can compare it to. So we actually, in the work we do on shaping the narrative with gps, the biggest, the most valuable input we get is from talking to the market, talking to existing investors, prospective investors, and existing investors in particular, can often give the pitch better than the gp. And, and we learn from that. And that's our.

David (16:08)

And.

Alex (16:09)

And when we advise our clients around.

David (16:11)

That, when it comes to building the narrative, is there a balance between simplicity and complexity? And how do you balance those two?

Alex (16:19)

I think there is. And I go back to what I said. I, I think you have to, you, you have to start simple. Right. My mind goes to like a bunch of example of a GP I met the other day who. They had their hour with us and they got on the phone and they, it was very informal and they just sort of Started talking about deals and going into like real detail on some case studies and they were sort of all over the place and what they missed was like they, they didn't ground us in again like the hook, like high level. Why should we care? Like what is your, your pitch in the f. In the first five minutes to get us excited about that. What you're doing is, is, is, is unique and, and, and repeatable and bring something to the table that isn't already there in droves, right? So I think simplicity, the balance like you, you have to, you have to keep it high level and get people engaged to then care about the complexity. Right? And I think the complexity comes in like once you've got their attention and investors attention then of course they want you, they want to, they want to dive deeper and they want you to be able to go into like intricate detail. Okay, we understand your playbook now, right? We understand what you're looking to do now. Take us through a case study now. Take us through a deal and show us how you apply that and get into the portfolio company metrics and how you changed out the CEO but you did to augment the company. But too often I think gps who day to day live in a different world, right? They're working with management teams and they're in the weeds. There's a risk of getting too much into the weeds too quickly before you've gotten people's attention. So I think that to me is, is the balance simple into complex.

David (17:54)

It just goes back to the same thing. They're meeting 14 managers. They only have so much neurological investment to brain damage to invest into managers figuring out what, what they should be diligencing what they should be figuring out. So if they could at the top either discount a manager and say I don't need to listen to anything and I don't need to deal with this complexity. That's one thing. If you could hook them in the beginning and they're like, okay, this is One of the five managers out of these 14 that are most interesting this week. Then they'll take the mental investment to dig deeper into that manager. So it's about like sequencing the investment.

Alex (18:25)

Yeah, that's, that's exactly right. And again you got to do the work to understand like what is actually going to come across as differentiated. I think, you know, so many GPs roll out the same playbook without realizing it. And you're just talking about operating partners and you're kind of page turning and you know, LPs are people are humans. And if you Hear the same thing, your eyes glaze over and you sort of disengage. I think that's often the risk, especially in today's market, you know, particularly for GPs who have had success in the past. Right. Maybe they haven't raised a fund in the last couple years and they try to apply the same playbook that worked for them in 2020, 2021, and they try to run that playbook today. You know, they don't take the time to evolve their story, sharpen their pencils, really get that feedback, and they're often in for a rude awakening in this environment.

David (19:11)

There's a paradigm in investing, whether GP or lp, where you shouldn't do a deal in the first year, so you should spend a year listening to pitches to understand what good looks like. If you do use the same heuristic 14 a week over a year, let's say that's, you know, with, with weekends and with holidays, there's about 500 pitches. After 500 HP, pitches with most GPs never get in their entire lifetime, then only after one year you can know what good looks like. And now compound that by 15, 20 years, when you look at the decision makers, so they've had 20, 25 times more reps in what good looks like than the GP that's focused on their business.

Alex (19:45)

Yeah, that, that absolutely resonates. And these LPs get a lot of reps. Like, there's a lot of people out there asking for capital.

David (19:51)

One of the factors that you said you need to know what the market is looking for. Obviously there's a lot of context and nuance to that, but what are some themes in the market for what LPs are looking for today? Q4, 2025.

Alex (20:02)

The good news for all of us in this industry is despite all the challenges and how tough the fundraising market is, LPs are still committed to this asset class, to private, to private equity. So that's the good news. I think that's a good starting point. And if I'm taking a. If I'm struggling a little to answer this, I think it's. I think it comes from the standpoint of, like, it's not the same for every lp, right? It goes back to I, I think with every lp, that what they're consistently looking for is, you know, the things that I've talked about, which are, you know, they, they obviously want the promise of great returns. Like, clearly that, that is what LPs are playing for. They, they, they want to back groups that are going to deliver good returns. So that they deliver good returns for their, for their investors or their fiduciaries on the LP side. And they're looking for, in this environment, you know, we, I've used the term differentiation a lot, but maybe another way I might say that is they're looking for domain expertise, right? They're looking for a hook or a specialization of some sort that convinces them that this GP has a right to win right in their lane. One of the areas that's sort of fallen out of favor is like a generalist strategy, right? A generalist strategy. I default. Let's define that as a GP that's investing in three or more sectors, right. There's been a long term secular trend on the LP side towards favoring specialization. And so, you know, and that could be specialization by sector focus or it could be specialization, you know, by strategy, like doing, you know, value and complex deals like carve outs and things like that. And that could, maybe that'd be across actors. But they're looking for something that, that, that evidences domain expertise. And then I, again, this is maybe more from the LP perspective, but they're, they're, you know, and I think we, we're very cognizant of this and how we build coverage relationships with investors and how we build credibility is they're looking for ideas that are relevant and additive to their portfolio. Right. And so a little bit of the art in fundraising and I think a big part of the value that an agent can add and we looked at it Evercore is, you know, knowing who those people are that are going to be a good, that are, that are looking for what you're selling. They're shopping for what you're selling. Right. That are actively looking to add exposure in their portfolio that you, that you are offering. I think that's, those are sort of broadly three things that, three things that, you know, LPs are looking for. There's a, there's a much longer list. You know, obviously like they're looking for alignment. I think they're also looking for partnership, which is a very overused term, but it comes up regularly. They're looking for GPs where their capital is going to matter, but that the relationship is going to matter. They're looking for transparency, they're looking for sort of institutional quality investor relations and back office. But again, what strategy is going to appeal to them? I think so much of that can be informed by the individual investor. Again, back office. What are the, what are the problems they have that they need to solve in their portfolio? And for us, our Big part of our job is like delivering that solution. And that means from a. I'm going off the reserve. But that means from a coverage standpoint, right? Working with LPs, I would say, like it's just building that credibility and also being effective for your gps. It's just as much about, for. For an average sort of salesperson on our team, it's just as much about what we don't show certain LPs or what we don't send them as. It is what we do. Right. Limited partners want a relationship where when they describe their program and their portfolio and their priorities, that the agent or the GP internalizes that and understands it and brings them relevant ideas for their goals.

David (23:30)

To put another way, what you're saying is there's also sequential process on the LP side. They have their portfolio, they have holes in their portfolio. Let's say it's secondary just to choose a random asset class. They know that they want to add a secondary manager and then you double click on that secondary manager. Let's say they want somebody specific in a certain vertical with a right to win, that's been doing it for many years, that has the returns, but also wants to partner with them. So it's kind of the sequential thing. Whereas if somebody sent them a growth equity fund, it could have all these things. They could have a right to win. They could be highly transparent, highly partnership focused. But if they're good on their growth equity exposure, there's nearly a zero percent chance that they're going to add to that exposure 100%.

Alex (24:07)

That's exactly what I'm talking about. You say better than me, David. I think, look, it's like. So we work with a spectrum of GPs from funds that are 200 million up to 20 billion. We work across private equity buyout, growth equity, credit infrastructure, and then some really opportunistic strategies like aviation, sports, et cetera. And our job is to sort of figure out back to the relevance of the lp who to show what to, right? Who's looking for, who's shopping for what. And I think, you know, we're gonna. There are gonna be certain LPs that everyone's looking for. Great managers in the buckets they're looking to fill. But they're gonna be certain LPs who are more focused on. We wanna work with really established gps, you know, that are on a high Roman numeral and have a long track record. And maybe we're okay with larger fund sizes that come along with those things.

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Alex (26:17)

You have another segment of the market, LPs that are, they want the opposite. They want to focus on, you know, the lower middle market or they want to go. They're hunting for emerging managers and, and, and groups that are earlier in their life cycle as a GPA because they maybe take a view that that's where some of the best alpha is and some of the great returns are. You have LPs who are exclusively looking for sector specialists. Right. And, and, and are not interested in, in, in meeting with a multisector firm, no matter how good it is. So whatever their flavor is, whatever they're looking for, I think this goes just goes back to also for what we do for a living, like building that credibility. If an LP tells us, it tells us we don't have an infrastructure program. We're looking for middle market buyout. That's in the end in the US and the next week our salesperson or coverage person sends that LP an email on a European infrastructure fund. You've just immediately lost credibility because you've wasted their time, you've wasted ours. You haven't listened. I think that's, you know, really important from an LP perspective. I think that's really key for building and cultivating relationships. Again is like are you a good listener? Are you bringing them solutions to the problems that they have or are you bringing them ideas that are, that fit the, the list that they are shopping for?

David (27:32)

And that's a, not an egotistical thing where an LP just wants people that'll pare back what, what they're asking for. It's a time efficiency thing. If I'm spending time on this infrastructure deal I don't want to deal with. That's time that takes away from that middle market PE opportunity that should be, that you should be sending me and that should be spending my time on.

Alex (27:49)

I think about how managing my inbox, right? My email, such a chain or in the, in our, in our modern time, like that's such a big piece of everyone's life is managing your inbox. And then I think about, I don't even have capital to invest, right? What if I had money, right, and capital to invest? I, I, I. The inflow of pitches and proposals and ideas is ludicrous. It's this point and I think, are you, are you adding to that problem as a, you know, as an agent? Are you, are you sending people things that are not relevant for people's portfolios? That's something that they have to take time on and respond to and, or are you, are you being a value added, you know, are you being a value added partner to them? You know, are you listening to them and are you picking your spots accordingly? Right? So I, I think it's about everyone's precious, most precious commodity and our job is like is this time right? And are you being respectful of their time and thoughtful and by the way, I've talked about the LP side but it's also, are you also being respectful and thoughtful of your GP clients?

David (28:46)

Time?

Alex (28:46)

We hear horror stories all the time of gps. We talk to, haven't maybe worked with an agent before and we'll ask them about their last fundraise and they'll tell us stories about how they showed up to meetings with investors all excited and you know, let's say they're a, they're a US Healthcare fund and in the first five minutes of the meeting do their intro and the investor says it's great to meet you. We don't have any allocation this year and you know, we actually don't invest in healthcare funds. You know, great, you got the meeting. But it's, you know, you've ultimately wasted your time and you've wasted the LP's time. So I think it's, it's on both sides of the GP and LP equation.

David (29:21)

We started the conversation with exact right Framing, which is there's a lot of noise, but it's all about that first close and having momentum on that first close. That's, that solves 80, 90% of the problems. So on that first close, does it.

Narrator (29:33)

Ever make sense to have fee discounts.

David (29:35)

Or is that also negative signaling in the market? And how do you reconcile these two different philosophical approaches?

Alex (29:40)

It depends on the fund and the asset class and the situation to an extent where I, where I, where we see fee discount, things like fee discounts for first closers as more common practice is first and foremost on maybe on really large funds, like large cap funds. Right, because you know, you're hurting a huge number of cats there and you've just got a huge quantum capital raise. Again, not clients that we work with. But I think we see that in the market. I think it's also more common in certain strategies and asset classes. For example, infrastructure and credit. I think particularly in credit, I think we see that it's more common. It's not universal, but it's more common. And because of that, I think when those categories, I don't think it necessarily signals weakness to the market. I think, you know, because it's more accepted standard practice, I think it's just viewed as a tool of driving a more efficient fundraise. I think where it's less common is in the middle market and the lower middle market, you know, in buyout and growth equity, which, where we have an active practice and it's less common and, and we typically do not advise it. In fact, we usually advise against it because for, I think sort of in that asset class, I think two fundamental reasons, I think we take that view. First is back to something I said earlier, just philosophical point. I think in these equity strategies, I think people are investing and moving early because they're excited about the return that they can make. They're not moving early because they're saving on cost net, net in the context of their whole portfolio and they're signing up to these funds for 10 years. These are big decisions. Saving some basis points on the management fee isn't a reason for people to buy something. I think the second reason is the use of David, Just because it's not common, I think there's a risk of negative selection bias. If you're doing that in a market where it's much less common, sort of ask why. Well, why do, why do you have to do that?

David (31:33)

And you mentioned that they're moving to get returns. They're not focused on the basis points. Why do they care about getting the first close? Is that just about getting their allocation?

Alex (31:43)

It sort of depends on the situation. I think we, what we talked about is like the sort of a vague example we were both referring to is, is a scenario where it's a, it's really sought after fund and it's credibly going to move quickly. And then. Yeah, I think often, often a big part of the practical incentive is to secure allocation. I think there is also maybe a softer point, but it's, it's a real one. I talked about the idea of partnership and relationship between LPs and GPs and I think that goes both ways. And a lot of LPs recognize that it's really helpful to the GP for people to move quickly, right? It means less time in the market. It's really valuable. Those first cl. We always say like dollars in the first close are, are, are, are the most valuable dollars in a fundraise. And I think LPs know that and I think some really forward thinking LPs, you know, who want to have a differentiated relationship and care about that, I think they're proactive in moving early because they know it's going to be meaningful, really meaningful to the gp. The GP is going to remember that for a really long time.

David (32:41)

Do you find that in practice that, that that's an effective strategy as an lp?

Alex (32:44)

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean look, GPS fundraising is hard, right? Fundraising is hard and, and, and, and it can be long and it, it, it can be a big drain on, on time and, and energy and folks, I absolutely, gps, gps remember that, right? It's meaningful to them. And again, I think LPs know that and so I think that's often also, also a driver.

David (33:14)

Going even more upstream of that first close, a first 60 minute meeting with an LP. You only get one chance to nail it and get a second meeting. What are the best practices there?

Alex (33:25)

We talked over a lot about nailing the narrative, right? And so, and we talked about the running a 360 on your, on your firm, on yourself, right? So that you don't go in blind like. And again, the reason to do that for that first meeting is so you've already gone out and checked with the market, especially if you're an established one who's raised before, right? You have existing LPs, you're, you're just getting unvarnished feedback of what investors really think about you, right? And again, what are the things they think you do well? What are the, but also you get a sense for like what are sort of the Things that chat, what are the areas they're going to challenge you on? Right? Or if they're a prospective investor, like, why haven't they, why didn't they invest last time? And I think knowing that going in and taking the time to do that work, you know, which can be scary, I think, to a lot of gps, like getting it, like, it's like performance reviews for all of us at the end of the year, right. It can be scary to open yourself up and listen to what the market says. But it's incredibly valuable because you're not going in blind.

David (34:27)

Right.

Alex (34:27)

And you can then use that time to, again, figure out how you lean in your strengths or bring out the differentiators or for the things you're going to be challenged on, the people, things that, the things that people maybe haven't liked in the past, you're going to be prepared on the front foot to talk about that, to address those concerns. And so I think that's, you know, that's really important. The other things that we maybe haven't talked, I don't think we really talked about yet again, how do you set yourself up for success and be prepared for those. That first meeting, it's kind of like, I'll use that as analogous, like, how do you set yourself up for a good raise? And we talked about building early momentum and we talked about, you know, this, the importance of our first close. So, you know, focus on what you can control ahead of that meeting. And one of those, one of the things that a GP can control in this environment, right? There's a lot of things we can't control, like how the market, how the person's going to react, et cetera. One of the things we, a GP can control is where they set their target fund size, right?

David (35:18)

Upstream of momentum. So if you're 50% to a 500 million raise, you technically would be 100% to $250 million raise. I know it's not one to one, but you actually could control your momentum in that manner.

Alex (35:32)

I think that's right. And it really, it's about not. I think the mistake again, that we see, you know, regularly is GP is just setting a target in a vacuum. A target based on what they worked last time, like how much did they grow last time? Let's do the same. Or just a target that's based on what they think that they deserve or that they should raise. And I think about, I flip it around and say, well, if we want to get 60 to 70% of the first close of the target, excuse me, in the first close. Let's, let's work backwards from that, right. And figure out, talk to our existings, figure out where they are really at. Right. What support do we have and start to sort of get a sense, hopefully from an advisor. What do we think demand is going to roughly be from new? We're not always going to have, be able to predict that perfectly. With the existing, with the existing you can get a good read early. And then let's, let's set a target that's real where we can, realistically, we have kind of line of sight that we can hit that goal of achieving 60 to 70% of it in a first close. Right. Let's do that work. Let's be informed about that decision. Right. Based on data and based on the assessment. Let's not just set a number and walk into the meeting, right. And get surprised on the negative.

David (36:41)

To further that, instead of going after this hypothetical 500 million fund, which if maybe miraculously you'll raise in 24 months, why not raise half of that in six to nine months, come in with momentum and then two to three years later be back with another fund. Everybody's happy. The LPs are vouching for you versus kind of these unrealistic goals that you, you would have never, you would have never hit anyways. But even if you would have hit, you'd be in a weaker position.

Alex (37:05)

I think that's, that's right. I've talked a lot about what the GP can do to prepare themselves and their story and you know, the fun size, what maybe I haven't talked about, but that's super important. A huge part of, I think what our, our value proposition is to, to general partners going into a fundraise is like, you also want to go into that meeting with like an educated understanding of who that LP is, right. @ the organization, at the institutional level, but also the individual you're meeting with. Right. What's the role in the business? And you know, again, what does their portfolio look like? What problems do they need help solving, doing that work to sort of understand your audience and just sort of, and, and to really, to, to an extent tailor your, your, your presentation and tailor what you talk about. That can be really, really valuable, right? I think it's sort of like one of my colleagues said this to me the other day, I thought it was great. It's like we want GPS going and understanding, like what's the question behind the question, right. So that they're prepared when an LP goes into a Certain line of questioning. If you understand their program, what their experiences have been, who else they're invested with. Right. Why they haven't gotten there before. On, on your fund, you go in more informed of like, what are they really getting at? Like what's their fundamental, what do they fundamentally care about here? That I need to make sure that I hit on that I, that I address head on in that first conversation. So I think that education on the LP program going in is really important. It could save everyone a lot.

David (38:27)

Of time and lead to better outcomes to operationalize that. Who are the people that get all this research that spend the 10, 20 hours on LPs? There's people that have a lot of belief in the fact that that LP is actually interested in their strategy. So obviously working with an evercore, but in general, just getting high integrity information on the LP could actually lead you to do that homework which will lead you to better results, which this kind of upward spiral. And the opposite happens as well. You spend maybe you spend five times doing all this research and then you have the meeting and you realize that they're not even interested in the space. You start to do less and less research, which has a downward spiral as.

Alex (39:01)

Well. Yeah, absolutely. Private markets fundraising is like by. It's an incredibly inefficient process. Right. Sort of why we have, why there's an, what justifies our existence as an agent. Right. It's, it's a, it's, it's an opaque market. It could be really, really inefficient use of people's time. So I think what you're talking about there is like, how do you just make that more, more.

David (39:19)

Efficient? And I wanted to double click on those, that hypothetical example of this $500 million and the $250 million fund. So tell me about that and give me some.

Alex (39:27)

Examples. And your question there was basically.

David (39:30)

My, my point was, you know, another way to say fundraising is momentum machine. That's the theme of it's all about momentum about this, about the fundraising, the first close. But the franchise itself, if you zoom out, is also about momentum. How do you get a great fund to do a great fund? One that's oversubscribed, how do you get a great fund? Three, you have to build this momentum with these recurring games with all the actors in the space. So what I'm saying is instead of coming up with an arbitrary 500 million, if you truly have 250 million demand, which is very impressive in this market, then sequence in the right way. It was more of A thought experiment. I'd love to get your thoughts on some real world experiences, how you see that in the market today.

Alex (40:09)

Yeah. So I, if, if I, if I get your question right, I mean, it's a little bit, it's sort of like, I guess one way we think about it is, you know, we'd much rather set a conservative target and get that slightly wrong on the, you know, in terms of there being more demand and generate momentum than, than the, than the other example, which is to be really foolhardy on the target or almost overly aspirational and get stuck in the doldrums. Right. We talked about what happens when you get to this great first close, but we didn't talk about like, what happens if you don't. And I think you see a ton of examples of this in the market. If you don't hit 60 to 70%, if you're like less than 50% of your first close, because you, for whatever reason, right, but you set a big goal and you, you know, that is what, what happens to private equity fundraising if you, if you have a weak first close, you just get caught in the doldrums right now. You don't have momentum now, you don't have scarcity value. And you've, you know, the, the market sort of will take the stance, okay. You know, they set a cover of a billion dollars and they have a $200 million first close. Like, I've got time, right? I could sort of see how this plays out. I can wait for the final. And that's what we're, I think gps and, and, and certainly we, the work we do gps, that's what we're looking to avoid, right. When we can. Because we, of all the reason, all the obvious reasons, you know, being out in the market a long time is a drain on, is a drain on everybody. So we'd always rather be more scientific about it and to an extent more conservative on the target to generate that momentum. You also kind of talked about, you know, something, you also referred to something else which gives me a thought like in terms of, you know, is it basically better to. Aren't you better served to almost raise a smaller fund and get it done quickly than to go for a bigger target is you might get there, but you're out in the market for two years. And I think generally speaking, and I'm going to generalize here, I think the answer is not surprising, is like, yes, um, what, you know, I was talking to a GP the other day about this and they actually have a Great hands. And we, we, we have high conviction that they're going to get to where they want to be. But what I was articulating to them is look for us, the way we think about, at Evercore, about partnering with gps, it's not just about this fundraise. Right. It's not just about fund one or if it's a fund two. In this case, it's about. We're immediately thinking about Fund 3 and Fund 4. How a fundraise lands and how it's. How it unfolds in the market, you know, really does matter, even if you get to the end goal. And I think if you can, if you can, the sweet spot is if you can run a raise where you're in and out of the market in an expedited fashion. And you also are. Even if you do have a lot of demand, you're really thoughtful about, you know, which l. The LPS that you prioritize and how you curate that, the list of investors for that raise. Like, hopefully you're doing a couple things right. You're doing a couple things right. One, I just think when you have a raise that moves quickly and is oversubscribed, people will remember that. Right. So it kind of establishes a good fundraising brand for your GP for the next time. Means next time you come back, LPs will remember that it, you know, it moved efficiently last time. And they like that because you're. What LPs really want, of course, is. I mean, it shows them demand. Yeah. And shows them it's a good product. But Also, investors want GPs. They don't want GPS out on the road forever. Right. They want GPS focused on the portfolio and on delivering returns and adding value. So I think there's a lot of, like, cascading benefits to getting in and out in an expedited timeframe. And so if doing a slightly smaller fund is going to achieve that, I think that pays dividends for you down the road for your next race. I think there's just sort of an aura effect with.

David (43:34)

That. I wanted to push back on something that you said earlier in this context, which you said the worst call to make to an LP is that.

Narrator (43:40)

They'Re going to get cut.

David (43:40)

Back. Is there not a golden ratio? If you cut back an from 20 million to 50 million, don't they net net have a better experience than if they got the full 20.

Alex (43:47)

Million? If you cut LP back from 20 to 15, do they have a better experience than they. They had gotten the.

David (43:53)

Full. It's the truest signal of of being in a.

Alex (43:55)

Hot. Yeah, I think that's a good. I like that, I like that.

David (43:58)

Framing. I mean you obviously if you cut them back to five, they might be unhappy but feels like if you take the same heuristic as rounds or IPOs that getting cut back they may not never admit it but it's actually a pretty good experience for the.

Alex (44:10)

Lp. That's a really glass half full way of framing it. So I appreciate that David. I might use that, I might steal that one from you. I think that's right. I mean look, I think if I just think about the LPs that I know well, I think that's a big part of their value add. I think in terms of how, you know, frankly it reflects on them internally and individually within their organization. You know, if they're able to get, show that they got an allocation even if they were cut back, they participated in a fundraise that was over subscribed and this other LP down the street didn't get any and you know, it was a select number of investors. I think, you know, maybe oddly, but I think accurately that reflects really well on them. Like they've, they've probably made a good call and hopefully that plays out in returns. But it certainly reflects well on them that they, that they secured an allocation. And I think it's sort of to your point, if there are cutbacks it's probably indicative of a really high quality GP right now. There are really high quality gps that you know, we work with and in the market by the way, we should say that are where we go in knowing it is going to be a longer.

Narrator (45:11)

Race.

Alex (45:11)

Right. Because we're building a brand and we're building a story and that those can also reflect great on LPs when they sort of take a chance and they do go into a fund that maybe doesn't even reach its hard cap because they believe in it. And I don't want to give short shrift to that. It's not all about just following the crowds but. But I think that's right and look, allocations are always, you know, allocations for funds that are in demand. It's. We always start with like from the GP's perspective, let's be honest. It's a high quality problem to have. Like you would like to find yourself in that position every time. Right. You have excess demand but it's still a problem if you've got, you know, if you're 2x oversubscribed and you've got to deliver some tough messages to LPs. Especially if like those are real relationships that are value, like our, you know, our business, we have clients on two sides, right? Obviously we have the sponsors and the work we do for them, but equally we have the, our limited partner relationships. And if we're not treating, if we're not treating our limited partner relationships with respect and integrity, you know, they're going to go away real quick and then frankly we lose our value to the, to the GPS in the first place. So it's really, it's very circular and I think the ideal situation often is, you know, for us is, and for gps is like look, we, we GPS want a diverse LP base, right? They would, they would like as many high quality names as possible. And so if we've got a lot of demand, it's often, how can we sort of get as many people in as possible? Assuming they all want in at an allocation that works for them, it might not be, you know, their perfect allocation, but at an allocation where it's not painful, it still works for their program. And so we've sort of delivered a high quality product and gotten the LPN at a number that works for them and then they can build on that relationship and future funds. So hopefully they feel good and they feel well treated and we've delivered the GP, you know, really great diversification across a number of LPs and a successful fundraiser from a GP perspective from agent. But that's sort of like the perfect, the perfect outcome. One thing I just reflect on all the time and you know, case in point, just getting to have these kind of discussions with people like you is I love talking about this stuff because I, I, you know, I'm really one of the lucky, one of the lucky people who's ended up in a career that I just really, really enjoy. I mean I, you've heard me talk a lot about storytelling and nailing the narrative. I, I, I sort of love, I love storytelling. I always have and we've talked a lot about relationships and, and I've always just loved coverage and getting to know GPs and LPs what makes them tick. If I was to sort of sum that up for all shapes and sizes of gps. The analogy I always use, you know, is raising a fund today without an, without a placement agent. It's kind of like running a marathon in dress shoes. You know, you might get there, but it'll take longer, it'll hurt more and you probably look worse while you're, while you're doing it. And whether you are a, you know, a GP who's in a great position and has had successful fundraises in the past and has strong numbers and a great story. You know, I, I just, I, I, I advise you to think about the fact that, look, even the best Olympic athletes who get gold medals, they all have a coach, right? So there's probably somebody out there who can work with you to make what's maybe already a really good story. Even better if you're a GP who, you know, is established, has been around but just isn't getting the traction that they think they deserve right now or feels lost in the shuffle of where the market's evolved to. I think an agent, you know, for you can really do that work to help you elevate your narrative. And if you're building your business for the first time, if you're raising a first time fund or an emerging manager, you know, a great agent can partner with you to go out and establish your brand in the right way and build your customer base from the ground up. And I really, really appreciate you having me on, David. It's been an absolute.

David (48:55)

Pleasure. Thank.

Narrator (48:56)

Alex. That's it for today's episode of How I Invest. If this conversation gave you new insights or ideas, do me a quick favor. Share with one person in your network who'd find it valuable or leave.

David (49:05)

A short review wherever you.

Narrator (49:07)

Listen. This helps more investors discover the show and keeps us bringing you these conversations week after week. Thank you for your continued.