How I Write: Clint Bentley & Greg Kwedar — How 'Train Dreams' Became a Film
Host: David Perell
Guests: Clint Bentley & Greg Kwedar
Date: January 28, 2026
Episode Theme: Deconstructing the writing, adaptation, and filmmaking process behind Train Dreams, including building creative sensibility, partnership dynamics, and the delicate art of translating story from page to screen.
Overview
This episode explores the creative journey of filmmakers Clint Bentley and Greg Kwedar as they adapt Denis Johnson’s novella Train Dreams into a feature film. Host David Perell guides a deep dive into their process—from film consumption and research, to scene construction, collaboration, feedback, and the relentless pursuit of subtle, authentic storytelling. Listeners are given a rare behind-the-scenes look at how stories are brought to life through research, partnership, iteration, and reverence for the source material.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Building a "Mental Bank" Through Consumption
- Early Days as Filmmakers: Clint and Greg’s formative years involved voraciously consuming both classic and contemporary cinema—Clint gravitating toward film history and Greg toward current works.
- Inspiration from the Unexpected: Discovery of films like Y Tu Mamá También opened their eyes to entirely new creative possibilities.
- “It was a movie that hit me like a shockwave where I was like, oh, you can do a movie like that.” – Greg Kwedar (02:47)
- Remaining a Student: Recognizing the importance of staying childlike, open to influence, and always creating.
Translating Inspiration into Cinematic Practice
- Practical Example: The now-famous shot inspired by Tarkovsky, using found objects (a burnt stick) to evoke emotion and meaning in a frame. (05:10–08:32)
- Creativity Under Constraints: Emphasize inventiveness brought on by limited budgets and resources.
Mission Statement as Creative North Star
- Greg describes their early “business plan for our careers,” anchored by a mission statement:
- “To tell stories of human connection in impossible places.” (08:43–10:02)
- This guiding ethos shapes project selection and preserves creative coherence amid career successes and shifting opportunities.
- “Having a vision, and more specifically, like an applicable mission in terms of the work helps you see the forest through the trees.” – Greg Kwedar (11:35)
Faithfulness and Freedom in Adaptation
- Spirit Over Fidelity: They honored the spiritual core of Denis Johnson’s novella, yet allowed themselves flexibility in translating to screen.
- “We had to follow this rule of, like, being very true to the spirit of the book, but then letting the rest go...” – Clint Bentley (13:48)
- Listening to the Work: Recognize when a beloved passage or scene doesn’t fit the evolving shape of the film.
- Embodied Research: Field trips to Idaho, immersive reading, and spontaneous interactions with locals infused the film with authentic detail and texture.
- “Nothing's going to take the place of just, like, on the ground, like, research.” – Clint Bentley (19:12)
The Power of Place
- Stories Built “From the Dirt Up”: The landscape isn’t just a backdrop, but often the seed from which the narrative grows.
- “We build stories from the dirt up. We come into a place and try to listen to the people and the place itself first.” – Greg Kwedar (19:12)
Writing and Rewriting: Craft as Iteration
- Shitty First Drafts and the Art of Revision:
- “You've got to get that shitty first. You got to get the clay on the table.” – Clint Bentley (23:53)
- Analogy to Craftsmanship: Building film is like constructing furniture—layers, tweaks, and patience until every piece fits.
- Never Settling: Continuous refinement, even up to release, is key to quality.
- “Not settling… just until you have to put the pencil down.” – Greg Kwedar (25:27)
- “I think you would probably still be editing Train Dreams if you were allowed to.” (26:19)
Partnership Dynamics
- Complementary Strengths: Greg is the starter—immediate and generative; Clint is the refiner—patient, meticulous, pushing for excellence.
- “Clint helps me see the beyond and the refine and see how great it could be.” – Greg Kwedar (26:54)
- They balance structure and story-telling—Greg foregrounds story construction, while Clint brings poetic detail.
Spareness and Precision in Dialogue
- Less is More: Favoring restraint, non-verbal storytelling, and silence over exposition.
- “Only use dialogue as a last resort.” (56:12)
- Improvisation and Authenticity: Blurring the lines between scripted and improvised moments keeps the film feeling fresh and lived-in.
Adapting Character & Moral Complexity
- Nuanced Protagonists: Willingness to challenge audience expectations and screenwriting “rules” by refusing to sugarcoat or simplify Grineer’s actions and passivity.
- “You're told to never do that. Never have a character try and murder somebody who's innocent in the beginning of the film… But that was the character in the book.” – Clint Bentley (36:26)
Detailing the Emotional Experience
- Subtlety Over Sentimentality: Striving for emotional impact without manipulation or “schmaltz.”
- “Trying to treat real life as cinematically as any movie plot normally is.” – Clint Bentley (40:32)
- Evoking, Not Overstating: Letting the audience fill in emotional gaps, leading to a lasting impact.
- “Trying not to be dishonest about it.” (43:27)
Letting the Film Surprise Its Creators
- Stories “Unfold” Themselves: Iterative editing, with final form diverging from the original script, especially regarding endings.
- “Of the four films we've released, all four have a different ending than what we started shooting.” – Greg Kwedar (64:28)
Music, Rhythm, and Mood
- Soundtrack as Story Element: Music is integrated through mood reels, playlist creation, and refined editing until the emotional tone clicks.
- “There's a rhythm at which point the film locks into itself and you can feel that.” – Clint Bentley (67:37–69:13)
Maxim’s and Mantras
- Clint: “Pay attention. Pay attention, pay attention.” (72:23)
- Greg: “Trust the process.” (73:17)
- Focus on Details: Sweating the granular—if you get the little things right, the big picture will take care of itself.
Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps
-
On discovering the possibility of new kinds of storytelling:
- “It was a movie that hit me like a shockwave where I was like, oh, you can do a movie like that.”
— Greg Kwedar (02:47)
- “It was a movie that hit me like a shockwave where I was like, oh, you can do a movie like that.”
-
On remaining creatively open:
- “I think there's something to that of...just keeping yourself childlike as an artist and not getting too rigid.”
— Clint Bentley (04:05)
- “I think there's something to that of...just keeping yourself childlike as an artist and not getting too rigid.”
-
On minimalist storytelling:
- “Only use dialogue as a last resort.”
— Mentor advice, relayed by Clint Bentley (56:12)
- “Only use dialogue as a last resort.”
-
On letting work improve through feedback and iteration:
- “Not settling...just until you have to put the pencil down. But, like, I think you would probably still be editing Train Dreams if you were allowed to.”
— Greg Kwedar (25:27)
- “Not settling...just until you have to put the pencil down. But, like, I think you would probably still be editing Train Dreams if you were allowed to.”
-
On emotional resonance in film:
- “Translating that to film in a way without overdoing it.”
— Clint Bentley (41:03) - “It felt very sort of therapeutic and peaceful. And I want to get back to that point about not overdoing it, because the word that's coming is that...sort of subtle feelings of sadness and gloominess and not this sort of intense despair.”
— David Perell (43:14)
- “Translating that to film in a way without overdoing it.”
-
On the unpredictability of the creative process:
- “You're trying to get to that place where you're listening to the story and it's kind of moving of its own. It's an odd thing to say, but it's almost like you're finding it rather than you're creating it.”
— Clint Bentley (60:46)
- “You're trying to get to that place where you're listening to the story and it's kind of moving of its own. It's an odd thing to say, but it's almost like you're finding it rather than you're creating it.”
-
On creative mantras:
- “Pay attention.”
— Clint Bentley (72:23) - “Trust the process...make the process good and healthy and do it with great intention.”
— Greg Kwedar (73:17)
- “Pay attention.”
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Film Influences & Education: 00:00–04:05
- Mission Statement & Vision: 08:32–11:35
- Adapting ‘Train Dreams’ (Choosing What to Keep): 13:13–17:09
- Immersive Research Process: 19:12–23:24
- Drafting & Iterative Writing: 23:53–27:18
- Dialogue and Improv: 32:54–35:11, 56:12–59:41
- Character Building & Moral Complexity: 35:58–38:44
- Emotional Resonance & Subtlety: 39:15–43:27
- The Story “Guiding” the Creators: 60:23–66:41
- Soundtrack & Mood: 67:24–72:14
- Mantras & Maxim’s: 72:14–74:51
Memorable and Notable Quotes
- “We build stories from the dirt up.” – Greg Kwedar (19:12)
- “You listen to the work. And it's funny because if you're not a creator, you're like, what are you talking about? But if you are a creator, you're like, no, the work just comes to—you...listen to the work.” – David Perell (15:34)
- “Pay attention. Pay attention, pay attention.” – Clint Bentley (72:23)
- “Trust the process...make the process good and healthy and do it with great intention.” – Greg Kwedar (73:17)
This episode is a masterclass on the invisible, often mystical craft behind memorable cinematic storytelling—showing that what appears “effortless” on screen is built on immersion, patience, rigorous revision, and a profound respect for both the story and the audience.