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Clint Bentley and Greg Kwedar: How Train Dreams Became a Film | How I Write

How I Write

Wed Jan 28 2026

Summary

How I Write: Clint Bentley & Greg Kwedar — How 'Train Dreams' Became a Film

Host: David Perell
Guests: Clint Bentley & Greg Kwedar
Date: January 28, 2026
Episode Theme: Deconstructing the writing, adaptation, and filmmaking process behind Train Dreams, including building creative sensibility, partnership dynamics, and the delicate art of translating story from page to screen.

Overview

This episode explores the creative journey of filmmakers Clint Bentley and Greg Kwedar as they adapt Denis Johnson’s novella Train Dreams into a feature film. Host David Perell guides a deep dive into their process—from film consumption and research, to scene construction, collaboration, feedback, and the relentless pursuit of subtle, authentic storytelling. Listeners are given a rare behind-the-scenes look at how stories are brought to life through research, partnership, iteration, and reverence for the source material.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Building a "Mental Bank" Through Consumption

Early Days as Filmmakers: Clint and Greg’s formative years involved voraciously consuming both classic and contemporary cinema—Clint gravitating toward film history and Greg toward current works.
Inspiration from the Unexpected: Discovery of films like Y Tu Mamá También opened their eyes to entirely new creative possibilities.
- “It was a movie that hit me like a shockwave where I was like, oh, you can do a movie like that.” – Greg Kwedar (02:47)
Remaining a Student: Recognizing the importance of staying childlike, open to influence, and always creating.

Translating Inspiration into Cinematic Practice

Practical Example: The now-famous shot inspired by Tarkovsky, using found objects (a burnt stick) to evoke emotion and meaning in a frame. (05:10–08:32)
Creativity Under Constraints: Emphasize inventiveness brought on by limited budgets and resources.

Mission Statement as Creative North Star

Greg describes their early “business plan for our careers,” anchored by a mission statement:
- “To tell stories of human connection in impossible places.” (08:43–10:02)
This guiding ethos shapes project selection and preserves creative coherence amid career successes and shifting opportunities.
- “Having a vision, and more specifically, like an applicable mission in terms of the work helps you see the forest through the trees.” – Greg Kwedar (11:35)

Faithfulness and Freedom in Adaptation

Spirit Over Fidelity: They honored the spiritual core of Denis Johnson’s novella, yet allowed themselves flexibility in translating to screen.
- “We had to follow this rule of, like, being very true to the spirit of the book, but then letting the rest go...” – Clint Bentley (13:48)
Listening to the Work: Recognize when a beloved passage or scene doesn’t fit the evolving shape of the film.
Embodied Research: Field trips to Idaho, immersive reading, and spontaneous interactions with locals infused the film with authentic detail and texture.
- “Nothing's going to take the place of just, like, on the ground, like, research.” – Clint Bentley (19:12)

The Power of Place

Stories Built “From the Dirt Up”: The landscape isn’t just a backdrop, but often the seed from which the narrative grows.
- “We build stories from the dirt up. We come into a place and try to listen to the people and the place itself first.” – Greg Kwedar (19:12)

Writing and Rewriting: Craft as Iteration

Shitty First Drafts and the Art of Revision:
- “You've got to get that shitty first. You got to get the clay on the table.” – Clint Bentley (23:53)
Analogy to Craftsmanship: Building film is like constructing furniture—layers, tweaks, and patience until every piece fits.
Never Settling: Continuous refinement, even up to release, is key to quality.
- “Not settling… just until you have to put the pencil down.” – Greg Kwedar (25:27)
- “I think you would probably still be editing Train Dreams if you were allowed to.” (26:19)

Partnership Dynamics

Complementary Strengths: Greg is the starter—immediate and generative; Clint is the refiner—patient, meticulous, pushing for excellence.
- “Clint helps me see the beyond and the refine and see how great it could be.” – Greg Kwedar (26:54)
They balance structure and story-telling—Greg foregrounds story construction, while Clint brings poetic detail.

Spareness and Precision in Dialogue

Less is More: Favoring restraint, non-verbal storytelling, and silence over exposition.
- “Only use dialogue as a last resort.” (56:12)
Improvisation and Authenticity: Blurring the lines between scripted and improvised moments keeps the film feeling fresh and lived-in.

Adapting Character & Moral Complexity

Nuanced Protagonists: Willingness to challenge audience expectations and screenwriting “rules” by refusing to sugarcoat or simplify Grineer’s actions and passivity.
- “You're told to never do that. Never have a character try and murder somebody who's innocent in the beginning of the film… But that was the character in the book.” – Clint Bentley (36:26)

Detailing the Emotional Experience

Subtlety Over Sentimentality: Striving for emotional impact without manipulation or “schmaltz.”
- “Trying to treat real life as cinematically as any movie plot normally is.” – Clint Bentley (40:32)
Evoking, Not Overstating: Letting the audience fill in emotional gaps, leading to a lasting impact.
- “Trying not to be dishonest about it.” (43:27)

Letting the Film Surprise Its Creators

Stories “Unfold” Themselves: Iterative editing, with final form diverging from the original script, especially regarding endings.
- “Of the four films we've released, all four have a different ending than what we started shooting.” – Greg Kwedar (64:28)

Music, Rhythm, and Mood

Soundtrack as Story Element: Music is integrated through mood reels, playlist creation, and refined editing until the emotional tone clicks.
- “There's a rhythm at which point the film locks into itself and you can feel that.” – Clint Bentley (67:37–69:13)

Maxim’s and Mantras

Clint: “Pay attention. Pay attention, pay attention.” (72:23)
Greg: “Trust the process.” (73:17)
Focus on Details: Sweating the granular—if you get the little things right, the big picture will take care of itself.

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

On discovering the possibility of new kinds of storytelling:
- “It was a movie that hit me like a shockwave where I was like, oh, you can do a movie like that.”
  — Greg Kwedar (02:47)
On remaining creatively open:
- “I think there's something to that of...just keeping yourself childlike as an artist and not getting too rigid.”
  — Clint Bentley (04:05)
On minimalist storytelling:
- “Only use dialogue as a last resort.”
  — Mentor advice, relayed by Clint Bentley (56:12)
On letting work improve through feedback and iteration:
- “Not settling...just until you have to put the pencil down. But, like, I think you would probably still be editing Train Dreams if you were allowed to.”
  — Greg Kwedar (25:27)
On emotional resonance in film:
- “Translating that to film in a way without overdoing it.”
  — Clint Bentley (41:03)
- “It felt very sort of therapeutic and peaceful. And I want to get back to that point about not overdoing it, because the word that's coming is that...sort of subtle feelings of sadness and gloominess and not this sort of intense despair.”
  — David Perell (43:14)
On the unpredictability of the creative process:
- “You're trying to get to that place where you're listening to the story and it's kind of moving of its own. It's an odd thing to say, but it's almost like you're finding it rather than you're creating it.”
  — Clint Bentley (60:46)
On creative mantras:
- “Pay attention.”
  — Clint Bentley (72:23)
- “Trust the process...make the process good and healthy and do it with great intention.”
  — Greg Kwedar (73:17)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Film Influences & Education: 00:00–04:05
Mission Statement & Vision: 08:32–11:35
Adapting ‘Train Dreams’ (Choosing What to Keep): 13:13–17:09
Immersive Research Process: 19:12–23:24
Drafting & Iterative Writing: 23:53–27:18
Dialogue and Improv: 32:54–35:11, 56:12–59:41
Character Building & Moral Complexity: 35:58–38:44
Emotional Resonance & Subtlety: 39:15–43:27
The Story “Guiding” the Creators: 60:23–66:41
Soundtrack & Mood: 67:24–72:14
Mantras & Maxim’s: 72:14–74:51

Memorable and Notable Quotes

“We build stories from the dirt up.” – Greg Kwedar (19:12)
“You listen to the work. And it's funny because if you're not a creator, you're like, what are you talking about? But if you are a creator, you're like, no, the work just comes to—you...listen to the work.” – David Perell (15:34)
“Pay attention. Pay attention, pay attention.” – Clint Bentley (72:23)
“Trust the process...make the process good and healthy and do it with great intention.” – Greg Kwedar (73:17)

This episode is a masterclass on the invisible, often mystical craft behind memorable cinematic storytelling—showing that what appears “effortless” on screen is built on immersion, patience, rigorous revision, and a profound respect for both the story and the audience.

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Transcript

A (0:00)

Tell me about the process of consumption over the years, watching films, watching movies, and how that builds a kind of mental bank that you can pull from as you're writing, as you're shooting films.

B (0:15)

It's really interesting because, yeah, you get, like, I don't know, I think so much. We both did this when we started out, where you're just trying to catch up on everything, and you've never. When you. When we were young and we met in Austin and we were trying to figure out how to not only, like, become a filmmaker, but write a screenplay and all of that. And you've never seen maybe, Wong Kar Wai, you know, or you've never seen, like, you've. We've, of course, seen whatever you consumed as a. As a. Just a viewer and a lover of film. But then once you think about yourself as a practitioner, you start trying to educate yourself on it. And now it's really interesting. I think where I'm at right now is like, you're trying to find pockets that you haven't seen before that are different, right. Of the history of, like, the history of our medium. And it's fascinating to go back and look at a lot of silent films and films from the 30s and 20s that are, like, almost, like, more interesting and more taking more risks than a lot of things coming out today, which is very counterintuitive, right, because we think of. We always think of, like, art as, like, always moving forward in a medium. And it is. But I don't know, that's.

C (1:31)

It's interesting. In our relationship, Clint has introduced me to so much of, like, the classic cinema that I missed, you know, growing up. And then I. I always sort of, like, was like a. A little hunting dog sniffing out, like, contemporary cinema. So I always had like, a very, like, good grip of, like, what. What the now was, and somehow, like.

B (1:53)

Yeah, who's worth watching now?

C (1:54)

Right. And we, like, would sort of share these tastes and sensibilities and notes and, you know, I've discovered so many movies that, yeah, became very formative because of my friendship with Clint. But, you know, when growing up, like, probably most kids, like, you're just seeing the blockbuster movies and the things that are kind of, you know, major releases in Fort Worth, Texas, you know, at the AMC theater, or just trying to get to blockbuster in time when a new movie comes out and be the one that gets one of the three tapes of whatever the hot movie was. But my awakening from finding things that are much more personal cinema was right as I was starting in film. I saw Itu Mama Tambien.

A (2:46)

Oh, yeah.

C (2:47)

B (6:20)

Feels empty when it should be empty and not when it shouldn't be? Right. And this was one of those instances where we were out on. Without spoiling it, there's a time where Joel Edgerton's character, Grineer, is rebuilding something, and he's, uh. He's out on this, like, burnt acre. We were shooting in an actual forest that had been destroyed by forest fire. And so it's just this, like, ashen pit with a bunch of dead trees in it. And we were setting up this frame. Joel is chopping on a tree on the ground. It's already beautiful because, like, the way Adolfo's shooting, it's backlit with the sun, all this ash and dust is kicking up, but it just felt a bit empty. And we had. One of the frames we had looked at was. There's a shot from. It's a. It's a fairly famous shot, but from Ian's childhood, which is Tarkovsky's first film, where the boy Ivan is, like, surrounded by all this. These, like, ruined. Some sort of ruined structure. And it's just this very jagged. All these jagged, like, boards kind of framing him out. And we thought about that shot and. And then Adolfo just founds long, burnt stick on the ground that had, like, a curve in it and set it on the ground between camera and Joel and then put the camera down low and that just. There was something about the shape of that stick within the frame that just made the whole thing click together and somehow, like, spoke to also what the character is going through in that moment and how he's kind of hemmed in by his Grief and by the literal aspect of this forest that's burnt. And it's one of those that you don't think it's funny because you brought it up because you're like, oh, I love that frame. And I would never maybe pull that frame if I was like, oh, let's talk about this. But you never know what. And it's just something that we were inventing on the fly to solve a problem that we felt, which was this frame doesn't feel good enough, you know, and that's a really. It's just a really beautiful part of the whole creative process, I think.

B (60:46)

Yeah, I think there's a good example of this. Like, you're trying to get to that place where. Where you're listening to the story and it's kind of moving of its own. It's an odd thing to say, but it's like, almost like you're finding it rather than you're creating it. And. And it's. And. And I'm sure you've had a lot of poets and writers and. And everybody, like, say this much more eloquently than we will right now. But there's a good example of this from. From the ending. You mentioned the ending earlier of this film. The ending of the book is one of the great endings that I've ever read in literature. It's so fantastic and it's so perfect. It's kind of like this almost like gravity's rainbow level ending. And we totally thought that would be the ending of the book, of the movie, and wrote that in the script as the ending kind of verbatim, you know, of like this wolf boy, this performance by this wolf boy. And. And then it ends in the book where he says, and it all went to black and that time was gone forever, right? And I was like, wow, what a perfect ending. That's gonna be the end of the movie. We shot that. We shot that whole thing, shot the plane sequence, which is currently the ending. And it was a much, like, smaller little thing. And then we started watching it down with our editor, Parker Laramie and everybody else. And it was very clear that, like, oh, the airplane sequence is the ending. The film just ended. Now we've got all this. We got 10 more minutes of stuff. What do you do with that? You know? And so then it's a thing of, like, first you like him and haw over it for a minute and you're like, well, surely not, you know, um, but. But then once, once we leaned into it and said, okay, like, this is the ending. Now, how does that other stuff work into getting us, like, building up to that ending. And. And then that plane sequence, like, then it was like, you know, 35 different versions of editing that plane sequence to get it to what it is now. But it was an aspect of just, like, listening to that feeling, and it was clear what the movie wanted. And then you can. Either at your own, you know, to your own detriment, you can listen to that or not. And then it just became. Everything became so much more rich and so much deeper by building up into that. Even the thing of, like, him looking at himself in the mirror. And that. That was not originally in there, right? That was, again, something that. Just, like, we found that theater. Our production designer, Alex Schaller, went to the bathroom in the basement and came back up and to Adolfo, and I was like, hey, you've got to shoot something. I don't care what it is. Shoot something in this bathroom. It's amazing, you know, and then that opened up this thing where like, well, what would you do with that? Oh, he's not seeing himself in the. He can now see the. He's not seen himself in a mirror in a long time. He can now see this whole of the years, blah, blah, blah. And so I think that's like an example to take it out of the clouds of just, like, it was a very iterative process of, like, listening to what the film wanted and then responding to that. Then that opened up its own set of problems to solve and questions that then, like, okay, well, how does a Wolf boy sequence even fit into that? How does seeing the Jon Glenn and space fit into that?