Podcast Summary: How I Write

Episode: Elif Shafak: How to Write a Novel

Host: David Perell
Guest: Elif Shafak
Date: December 26, 2025

Overview

This episode of How I Write features acclaimed novelist Elif Shafak in conversation with host David Perell. Together, they dive into the philosophy and practice of writing novels, exploring the interplay between the magical and the mundane, the necessity of freedom in creativity, and the rich tapestry of influences—cultural, linguistic, and personal—that shape Shafak’s lyrical, empathetic prose. The episode offers not just practical writing advice, but a celebration of storytelling’s role in understanding ourselves, others, and the world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Enchantment in Storytelling

• On “Magical Realism”:

  • Shafak gently resists the “magical realism” label, arguing instead for a worldview where magic and reality are inseparable.
    • "In life, there is magic in every moment, every breath... I do not separate these categories. Like, here's the domain of magic, and here's the domain of reality.” (03:00)
  • Istanbul exemplifies the collision of contrasts and moods, blending humor and sorrow, magic and reality in "the wildest way possible." (03:29)

• Avoiding Cliché and Sentimentality:

  • True wonder in writing comes from intuition, not calculation or self-consciousness.
    • "Within the process of writing, you need to keep it as pure, as independent, as free as you can." (06:05)

2. The Writing Process: Discipline, Play, and Intuition

• Routine (or Lack Thereof):

  • Shafak’s process rejects rigid schedules in favor of continuity—always reading, always taking notes—even if most of what is written is eventually erased.
    • "There's a continuity of reading, researching, learning and writing. But... I don't believe in precise schedules." (07:43)
  • Writing is ever-present: "It seeps into my dreams." (07:43)

• Night Writing & Heavy Metal:

  • Prefers writing at night, accompanied by heavy metal music—especially melodic death metal for its emotional honesty.
    • "I'm a metalhead. I've always been a metalhead, since my early youth... When I like a song that speaks to me in that moment, I can listen to that song on repeat maybe 70 or 80 times." (10:13, 10:20)

• Writing from the Heart:

  • Differentiates between the mind (constraint, anxiety) and the heart (empathy, risk, intuition).
    • "The heart... our ability to empathize... so much bigger, broader and deeper. I want to make the heart my guide." (12:35)
  • Emphasizes openness to risk and discovery: "You're literally jumping into something without quite knowing what you're doing." (13:27)
  • Preparation helps enable intuitive leaps—"do a lot of learning beforehand." (13:56)

3. The Importance of Listening and Eclectic Reading

• Listening:

  • Good writers must be good readers and listeners—absorbing not just the spoken, but the silences and subtext.
    • "Not everything is found in written culture... so much knowledge is transferred through oral storytelling, ballads, folktales, legends, riddles." (15:42)
    • "You also need to start paying attention to silences... being a novelist is a bit like a linguistic cultural archaeologist.” (17:18)

• Reading Widely:

  • Advocates for reading across genres and disciplines.
    • "Let’s read anything and everything that speaks to us... cookbooks are amazing... let’s read political philosophy, neuroscience, water science." (15:10)

4. Building Real Characters

• Complexity over Heroism:

  • Drawn to characters in flux, those at the periphery, and moments of unexpected change or courage.
    • "I'm always intrigued by that moment when a timid person suddenly shows courage, or a very brave person... is so scared." (18:40)
  • Genuine characters arise from deep listening and empathy, not just design.

• Dealing with Doubt:

  • Every novel involves doubt and struggle—those “valleys of anxiety, mountains of depression.” (20:33)
    • "It doesn't matter whether it's your first book, fifth book, tenth novel. We always... go through valleys of anxiety, mountains of depression.” (20:33)
  • Structure and intuition must co-exist ("weaving a braid" to describe complex storylines). (20:55)

5. The Sensory and the Imaginative

• Metaphor & Sensory Detail:

  • Metaphors both reveal and emotionally color reality.
    • "The senses—to activate all the senses, it's so important for me." (25:00)
    • Writing can give "ordinary" things (like water) symbolic resonance: e.g., "Water has no regard for social status or royal titles... is the consummate immigrant." (27:34)

• Imagination Beyond the Self:

  • Pushes back on "write what you know" as the sole foundation; literature can and should transcend autobiography.
    • "There's also the transcendental... sometimes it's not about your story. It's about the other. You become the other... and you keep making these journeys." (29:27)

6. Risk, Failure, and the Need for Love

• Risking the Absurd:

  • Taking creative risks—like writing a talking tree—never gets easier, even after 21 books.
    • "It's always hard... and it never gets any easier." (32:43)

• The Necessity of Love:

  • The drive to write comes from compulsion and love.
    • "If I'm not writing, I'll be more miserable... What is stronger than all these questions is the love of literature." (33:17, 33:19)

7. Multiplicity, Freedom, and the Role of the Reader

• Softness & Multiplicity:
  • Writing can have "soft bed sheets" quality—not singular in meaning, but open, poetic, and plural.
    • "In art and literature, there's nuance, there's pluralism, there's multiplicity... You do it in such a way that you open up a space... and you need to take a step back as a writer." (35:15)
  • Rejects didacticism: the reader participates in meaning-making.

8. Editing and Collaboration

• Editorial Partnerships:

  • Writing is solitary, but producing a book is collaborative.
    • "We work with a team... copy editors, translators... But when you are writing, you are alone. It's the loneliest form of art." (37:20)

• Circular (Not Linear) Process:

  • Editing happens continuously: “I always think in cyclical, circular timelines rather than linear.” (37:20)

9. Art, Awe, and Remembering Childhood Creativity

• Art’s Restorative Power:
  • Art restores a childlike sense of wonder and creative freedom.
    • "Children ask the deepest questions... as we grow up, we start to censor ourselves... that creativity withers away." (41:14)
  • Modern society "kills our creativity" through judgment and categorization. (42:50)

10. Language, Multilingualism, and the Immigrant Experience

• Writing in English vs. Turkish:
  • Describes Turkish with deep emotion, English with intellectual passion; humor finds its way more naturally in English, while sorrow and melancholy reside in Turkish.
    • "My connection with the Turkish language is very emotional... with English is more intellectual, more cerebral." (51:49)
  • Writing in a new language created creative "distance" that enabled new perspectives. (49:46)

11. The Novel as a Nomad’s Home

• Multiplicity & Nomadism:

  • Living inside the novel is a form of spiritual and intellectual nomadism.
    • "You have to journey from the psyche of one character to the next... It's a very humbling exercise for the human soul." (53:23)

• Truth & Fiction:

  • Challenges the dichotomy that fiction is merely the opposite of fact.
    • "Fiction is very interested in truth, and it does bring us closer to truth, but it does it in its own way." (54:45)

12. Freedom, Censorship, and the Cultural Roots of Art

• On Freedom:

  • Stresses the fragile and essential nature of creative freedom, especially under political or cultural repression.
    • "When you don't have the freedom to write, to read, to access books, so much is taken away from us. How can imagination flourish?" (56:07)

• Literature as Repair:

  • Memory—individual and cultural—is key to understanding and healing.
    • "If we cannot remember, we cannot repair. And really what we cannot repair keeps coming back again and again." (61:19)
  • Advocates for "cyclical" rather than linear ideas of time, inspired by writers like Walter Benjamin and the stories of Istanbul. (61:19, 62:39)

13. Influences: Writers, Cities, and Mystics

• Notable Influences:
  • Walter Benjamin: Loved for his collage-like approach and ability to read the “ruins, absences.” (57:22-59:25)
  • Virginia Woolf: Praised for experimentation and multiplicity, especially in ‘Orlando.’ (68:28)
  • James Baldwin: “Patron saint of exiles and poets”; inspired Shafak’s ideas of home and exile. (77:16)
  • Rumi: Seen as a universal, boundary-crossing poet. (66:49)
  • Cities: Strasbourg, Ankara, Istanbul, London, Madrid, Boston, Michigan, Arizona—all have left an imprint, both through their presence and their “absences.” (75:12-77:16)

14. Melancholy and Humor: The Dialectic of Sorrow and Lightness

• Embracing Sadness and Compassionate Humor:
  • Writing is not afraid of sorrow but holds humor as its “oxygen.”
    • "There's a symbiotic relationship between melancholy and humor... a more all-embracing humor is our oxygen." (79:00)
  • Humor must be compassionate, never condescending.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On labels like “magical realism”:
  • "It assumes that there's a duality. Whereas I think in life there is magic in every moment, every breath." —Elif Shafak (03:00)
• On creative doubt:
  • "We always... go through valleys of anxiety, mountains of depression. This is not a linear, steady progress and doubt and self-doubt are big parts of the writing journey." —Elif Shafak (20:33)
• On language and identity:
  • "It really felt like cutting off my hand... but I wanted to do this because I needed freedom, I needed cognitive distance." —Elif Shafak (49:46)
• On humor and melancholy:
  • "There's a symbiotic relationship between melancholy and humor... compassionate humor that tries to understand our weaknesses and follies just being human." —Elif Shafak (79:00)
• On children and creativity:
  • "At that age, children have a natural ability to, you know, to be creative... girls are a little bit more, perhaps vocal, you know, than boys... but then older students, no hands go up. Why? Because we taught them, be careful... you will be judged... that kills our creativity." —Elif Shafak (42:50)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• “Magical Realism” Discourse: 02:49–04:38
• Night Writing & Heavy Metal: 09:14–11:21
• On Intuition vs. Blueprint Planning: 12:35–14:37
• On Listening & Reading: 14:47–17:18
• Making Characters Real: 18:08–20:33
• Risk in Writing: 32:34–34:14
• On Multiplicity & The Reader’s Role: 35:15–37:10
• Language, Emotion, and Humor: 48:34–51:49
• On Fiction vs. Truth: 54:43–55:08
• On Freedom and Artistic Roots: 56:07–57:09
• Walter Benjamin as Influence: 57:22–59:25
• On Time: Chronos vs. Kairos: 62:36–64:42
• On Rumi and Universality: 66:49–68:28
• Closing on Melancholy and Humor: 78:27–80:32

Closing Reflection

This episode is a lyrical masterclass in the art, risk, and discipline of novel writing, offering listeners not just a glimpse into the mechanics of Elif Shafak’s process, but into the worldview and deep curiosity that animate her stories. Whether you’re a writer or simply a lover of literature, Shafak’s wisdom is a reminder of the radical freedom, humility, and empathy that great art requires.