Podcast Summary: How I Write with David Perell

Guest: Tom Junod
Episode: How to Write Unapologetically Well
Air Date: January 7, 2026

Episode Overview

In this penetrating, slow-paced conversation, acclaimed magazine writer Tom Junod joins David Perell to explore the deep mechanics behind great writing. Junod, known for essays like “The Falling Man” (about 9/11) and his celebrated profile of Fred Rogers, reflects on the writer’s responsibility to “say the unsayable,” the role of contradiction and truth in storytelling, and his personal evolution as a writer. The discussion weaves together memoir, writing craft, emotional honesty, and the relentless quest to bear witness—all culminating in a memorable riff on the importance of literature and the soul in a technological age.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Sensory Feel of Sentences

• Junod’s Writing Litmus Test

  • When writing “The Falling Man,” he aimed for sentences that made “the hair stand up on my arms.” (00:53)
  • Writing is not a systematic process for him; rather, he follows the emotional pulse of each sentence.

• Quote:

  • “If you can keep on writing sentences that make the hair stand up on your arms, then you got this.” — Tom Junod (00:58)

Writing “The Falling Man” and Taboo Subjects

• Genesis of the Story

  • Junod saw the iconic 9/11 photo in the New York Times and was instantly drawn to its contradictions: the man's apparent calm in the face of violent death. (03:01)
  • The image and story were shrouded in national taboo, which only intensified Junod’s desire to write about it.

• Quote:

  • “If somebody tells me I can’t write about it, I want to write about it. And if somebody says I can’t say it, I really want to say it.” — Tom Junod (06:23)

• Exploring the Urge to ‘Say the Unsayable’

  • The story wasn’t just about “an interesting photo”; it forced Americans to confront the reality that many people jumped.
  • “The whole nation averted its eyes from [that picture].” (06:53)
  • Junod’s determination: to look, not turn away, both as a writer and as a truth-seeker. (11:33)

• Craft Detail:

  • Moves from clinical objectivity (“accelerating at a rate of 32 feet per second squared”) to audacious metaphor (“a banner composed entirely of steel bars shining in the sun”) within a single paragraph. (12:32)

Contradiction and Tension as Story Engines

• Tectonic Plates Metaphor

  • Great stories for Junod are animated by unresolved contradictions—a creative friction.
  • “If a story has that dimension of ambivalence or contradiction, or just like something’s off here that I can’t quite name, those are the things that I tend to go after and want to write about.” (16:36)

• Family Tensions and Writing

  • Junod’s own upbringing was shaped by contradiction: beauty and dysfunction, love and secrecy.
  • This early emotional awareness molded his writing instinct. (16:55–18:57)

Voice, Style, and Family Influence

• Long, Balanced Sentences
  • Junod attempts to “balance the two poles” in each sentence, letting contradictions grind against one another and seeking synthesis. (18:57)
• The Significance of Ellipses
  • Heavy usage of ellipses—and musicality in prose—was inspired by his father’s idiosyncratic, performative way of speaking. (19:42)

The Craft and Structure of Longform Writing

• Affinity for Longform

  • Junod never planned to write magazine features, but found his calling there. His method: “I wanted to be a writer” even when he was bad and wrote on business cards after selling handbags. (26:03)
  • First published sentence: “Okay, I admit it. I wanted to skewer him.” (27:38)

• On Engaging Openings and Endings

  • The opening sentence sets the “bar” for the rest; the ending provides permission to stop. Junod resists formulaic endings (like ending on a quote), preferring conclusive sentences that “enable me to stop.” (53:44)

The Fred Rogers Profile & Writing about Goodness

• Meeting Fred Rogers

  • Rogers’ empathy was so profound, Junod describes it as a “superpower.”
  • Encounter with Fred allowed Junod to embrace the spiritual and mysterious dimensions of goodness, not just evil, in his writing. (32:02–34:10)

• Quote:

  • “Goodness is just as much a mystery as evil is. We have no more reason to be good than to be evil. And yet we are.” — Tom Junod (33:34)

Honesty, Fearlessness & Writing Methods

• Freeing Yourself as a Writer
  • Junod embraces experimental methods: writing sections in the second person, cursing, repetitive “This is a story about…” drills to unearth the core meaning. (47:06–49:43)
• The Anti-Timid Approach
  • “Be brutally honest… try to say the thing that you’re not supposed to say and then build the story out of that.” (50:36)
• Stages of Writing:
  • “I’m shit. I’m a genius. I’m shit. I survived.” (40:57)

Truth, Secrets, and the Writer’s Task

• Motivation Rooted in Family Secrets
  • Growing up with secrets—his father’s hidden affairs—left Junod alert to the power of what is unspoken. Telling the truth in writing became a way to process and resist hiddenness. (57:55)

Comic Books, Narrative Transformation & Redemption

• Lasting Early Influence
  • For Junod, comic books weren’t about visuals or drama, but “transformation and redemption”—his favorite heroes lived double lives and struggled with secret pain, mirroring the contradictions he explores in his writing. (61:02)

Bearing Witness & The Writer’s Soul

• On the Bookshelf (and Literature’s Purpose)

  • Junod organizes his books chronologically—from The Bible to Finnegans Wake—and sees literary history as a record of humanity’s failures and efforts to bear witness.
  • For every human disaster, “there is a writer, somebody who’s grappling with the fuck up and bearing witness… And the soul is the part of us that is willing to, and in fact needs to bear witness to the truth, to ourselves, to God, all of it.” (65:56–68:23)

• Against Artificial Intelligence Writing

  • Junod argues that attempts to make AI “write” stem from denying the soul, and the unique capacity of humans to bear witness.
  • “Why the fuck would we ever want to give that up? It’s like the one thing that we can do and the one thing we’re [given] as a gift.” (68:23)

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “If you can keep on writing sentences that make the hair stand up on your arms, then you got this.”
  Tom Junod (00:58)

• On breaking taboos:
  “If somebody tells me I can’t write about it, I want to write about it. And if somebody says I can’t say it, I really want to say it.”
  Tom Junod (06:23)

• On contradiction:
  “If a story has that sort of dimension, that dimension of ambivalence or contradiction or just like something’s off here that I can’t quite name, those are the things that I tend to go after and to want to write about.”
  Tom Junod (16:36)

• On honesty:
  “Be brutally honest and try to say the thing that you’re not supposed to say and then build the story out of that.”
  Tom Junod (50:36)

• On the writer’s soul:
  “For every fuck up, there is a writer, somebody who’s grappling with the fuck up and bearing witness to the pain and the suffering and the joy and the hope and the whole freaking shit show… The soul is the part of us that is willing to and in fact needs to bear witness to the truth, to ourselves, to God, all of it.”
  Tom Junod (67:10–68:23)

• On the stages of writing:
  “I’m shit. I’m a genius. I’m shit. I survived.”
  Tom Junod (40:57)

Notable Moments & Timestamps

• Reading “The Falling Man” aloud: revealing craft, rhythm, and the emotional gaze (08:38)
• Junod on ellipses and family speaking style: (19:42)
• Recalling Fred Rogers’ ability to intuit and meet deep emotional needs instantly: (31:19, 37:30)
• The anti-timid, experimental approach—including “this is a story about…” drill: (47:06–47:51)
• Junod’s bookshelf as a chronicle of human error and literary witness: (65:56–67:10)
• Riff on the soul, AI, and the necessity of bearing witness: (67:10–68:23)

Structure of Summary

• Overview — sets context for the conversation and guest.
• Key Discussion Points — organized by themes: craft, subject matter, personal story, process, and philosophical/ethical concerns.
• Notable Quotes — each with timestamp and speaker.
• Notable Moments — specific, timestamped highlights for quick reference.

This episode is a master class in writing with emotional clarity, moral courage, and stylistic innovation. For listeners and aspiring writers, Tom Junod’s candor, intellectual restlessness, and deep sense of purpose offer both practical guidance and deep inspiration.