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How Leaders Lead with David Novak
#255: Clark Hunt, Chairman and CEO of the Kansas City Chiefs – Be quick to give others credit
00:57:05
Listen to this leadership podcast with Clark Hunt, CEO of the Kansas City Chiefs, and discover how he’s built a dynasty by giving others the credit.
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- [00:00]
Clark Hunt
It gets back to putting other people first. If you're willing to do that, that's going to allow you to break through. And people are going to be willing to embrace your vision and do whatever it takes to be successful because they know that you care about them.
- [00:19]
David Novak
Well, we did it. We survived another off season, and now football is back. And I have just the guest to help you kick off this year's NFL season. Welcome to AL Leaders Lead. I'm David Novak, and every week I have conversations with the very best leaders in the world to help you become the best leader you can be. My guest today is Clark Hunt, chairman and CEO of the Kansas City Chiefs. Now, you don't have to be a big NFL fan to know that no team has dominated the league quite like the Chiefs. They've won the AFC west nine consecutive times. They've made it to the super bowl five out of the last six years, and they've won three of them. So how do they build this kind of dynasty as a leader? You know, it's really hard to deliver results year after year after year. Today we're going to go point by point through what I believe are the five key things that every dynasty does, not only to achieve success, but also to repeat it. And as we do, you'll see when Clark talks about the success he's built, he is constantly giving credit to everyone else around him. Sometimes we think humility is just an aw shucks kind of modesty, but it's so much more. Listen closely today and you'll see how it's a powerful motivator and a real driver of success. Plus, you'll hear some great stories about how the super bowl got its name, what it was like to have Taylor Swift at Arrowhead Stadium, and lots more. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Clark Hunt. I gotta start by saying thank you because I'm a Kansas City Chiefs fan. I grew up in Kansas City, which went to high school, Raytown High School. I've been rooting for the Chiefs ever since Lynn Dawson, you know, Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, Otis Taylor, all the way up to Patrick Mahomes. My grandson Luke had the opportunity to take a picture with Patrick Holmes when he was here in Louisville for the Kentucky Derby. So we are all part of that chief's kingdom. And you've done such a great job. So I'm going to start by just saying thank you, Clark, for everything you've done.
- [02:39]
Clark Hunt
Yeah, well, I appreciate your support. So glad that you're a fan there's no doubt that it's been an unbelievably special time for the Kansas City Chiefs and our fan base. You know, what an amazing decade it's been.
- [02:52]
David Novak
It sure has been. And, and you've won three Super Bowls as chairman and CEO of the Chiefs. And what will you always remember, Clark, about holding up that Lombardi Trophy for the very first time?
- [03:04]
Clark Hunt
Well, of course, what made it so Special was the 50 year journey between Super Bowls. We played in Super Bowl 4, beat the Minnesota Vikings, and my parents at the time thought, well, they would just be back, you know, every couple of years because the team had played in Super Bowl 1. And of course it took five decades for us to get back to the big game. Win Super Bowl 54 against the San Francisco 49ers. And I'll never forget the moment on the stage where I was handed the trophy and, and then let my mom have it and she kissed was just so special getting to be there with her because of course she was around for Super Bowl 1, Super Bowl 4, saw that part of the Chiefs history and she was so thrilled for the team to be back. And so that was really the special moment for me.
- [03:55]
David Novak
That is so cool. And one of the things that I've noticed about great leaders like yourself is that when you get to hold that trophy, you hold it, but you very quickly turn it over to somebody else. You want everybody to be able to touch that trophy. How important do you think that is?
- [04:12]
Clark Hunt
Well, it's really important because the truth is you don't win a Lombardi by yourself. Nobody, not even Patrick Mahomes, wins a Lombardi by himself. Football is the ultimate team sport, right? An active roster of 53, 17 guys on the practice squad, a coaching staff that's over 30 people and, and a total of about 300 employees in the organization. And it takes every single one of them to be successful. They're all incredibly important. It's a message that I deliver to our players every year, that everybody in the organization has a piece in the success that we have. And so it's fun to be on that stage with my family who obviously their support is so important, but with leaders like Andy Reid and Patrick and Travis Kelsey, Chris Jones, our key players, and it's fun to see them pass that trophy around and just how special that moment is for them.
- [05:09]
David Novak
Yeah, it's incredible. And do you have a behind the scenes story about winning one of the Super Bowls that you haven't told anyone before?
- [05:17]
Clark Hunt
I don't know that I, per se, have A behind the scenes story. Of course, our success in Kansas City has been fueled by the combination of Andy Reid, Brett Veach and Patrick Mahomes. And the drafting of Patrick back in two is really what started the momentum on the success that we've had for the last seven or eight years. And there was so much that went into that. There was the scouting of Patrick while he was in college, which Brett Veach wasn't even our general manager at the time. He was in our scouting department. And he just became convinced that Patrick was the guy that could lead us to the promised land. And he began putting tapes of Patrick on Andy's desk every week. Patrick played for Texas Tech. Brett. Brett would get the tape and put it on Andy's desk, say, hey, you have to watch this. And after about a year of that, Andy told Brett, hey, I get it, I get it. The kid's special. And then, you know, that that then led into the. The draft in 2017. We had to move up from the 27th pick to the 10th pick to select Patrick. There was a little subterfuge involved in that because we couldn't let the rest of the league know why we were moving up, because we were afraid somebody would then jump us to take Patrick in front of us. And we pulled it all off and held our breath in the draft room in 2017. And when Patrick was still there, we executed the trade with the Buffalo Bills and got Patrick, and we were all incredibly excited. I don't think, in retrospect, we really knew how excited we should be because it put in motion this amazing decade that we've had.
- [07:13]
David Novak
How could you. I mean, how would you possibly know it could be that fantastic? And, you know, it's interesting that you made that pick, you know, through the Buffalo Bills, you know, and then this last year, you got a great receiver through the Buffalo Bills. The Bills have got to be kind of kicking themselves.
- [07:31]
Clark Hunt
I would think so. And I know they thought highly of Patrick in that 2017 draft, and of course, they ended up in a great spot, coming back and drafting Josh Allen a year or so later, who's one of the top quarterbacks in the league and certainly somebody who's capable of winning a Super Bowl. But I will say that I was surprised a year ago when the Bills were willing to trade with us in the first round again. That allowed us to move up and take Xavier Worthy, who a lot of people felt was really sort of the missing piece, you know, from our squad. We didn't have the speed receiver that we had when Tyreek Hill was with the team. And so adding Xavier, who set the combine record for the 40 yard dash, I think at 4, 2, 1, they thought that was going to be the perfect complement for Patrick. And the Bills were good enough to oblige and do the trade with us.
- [08:27]
David Novak
Yeah, that had to put another smile on the organization's face, you know. And speaking of the super bowl, your dad, the late, great Lamar Hunt, was the founder of the AFC and, and the Chiefs and actually coined the term super bowl, as I understand it. Can you tell us that story?
- [08:46]
Clark Hunt
Yeah, absolutely. Going back to the 1950s, the late 1950s, my dad decided that he wanted to get into the professional sports business. And he picked pro football over baseball because he felt the game televised. Well, and of course, televised sports was relatively new. In the late 1950s, he went to the NFL to try to get an expansion team for his hometown of Dallas. And the NFL commissioner told him two things. First of all, we're not interested in expanding. And secondly, Dallas is a horrible market for pro football, which of course today is absolutely laughable. But it didn't deter my dad. He kept, kept working on it. Eventually he tried to buy a piece of the Chicago Cardinals, and that is the same team that now plays in Arizona. They went From Chicago to St. Louis to Arizona, and the same family actually owns the team. And my dad tried to buy the team across several years. And at the end of the day, Walter Wolfner, who was the owner of the team at the time, you know, told my dad, you know, you're not the only guy who's come to see me about buying a team. And so that, that turned a light bulb on my, on in my dad's head. And he made the decision to start his own league, which became the American Football League, which launched in 1960. Initially, the NFL acted like they didn't care anything about this new upstart league. It wasn't going to be competitive. But very quickly they realized that the AFL was going to be a threat to them. They the AFL was trying to sign the same players that the NFL was signing. There were two different drafts, so there was real competition between the two leagues. Ultimately, that led to a discussion in the summer of 1966 to merge the two leagues. And my dad was actually the one who cut the deal with Texram. They sat in a car at Love Field, the airport in Dallas, and sort of hammered out the details of the merger. In April of 1966, however, there were a lot of meetings that had to happen to for the merger to become Complete. And my dad was in one of those meetings, and there were a bunch of owners from. From both leagues, and they were talking about this new championship game that would have to start because there was an AFL champion, there was an NFL champion, but you needed an overall champion. And one of the owners in the meeting looked at my dad and said, which game are you talking about? Are you talking about one of the conference championship games? And my dad said, no, I'm talking about the last game, the final game, you know, the Super Bowl. And he just threw it out there like that, and everybody sort of stopped and looked at him, and then they went back to their business. However, the owners and later the staff in the league office began referring to this new championship game as the Super Bowl. The only problem was that the commissioner at the time, whose name was Pete Rozelle, who was a tremendous commissioner for the NFL for several decades, he actively disliked the term Super Bowl. He thought it lacked sophistication. And that's the reason if you go back to Super Bowl 1 and Super Bowl 2, those games were originally called the AFL NFL World Championship Game. But over time, the media heard the term super bowl, the fans heard the term super bowl, and by the time you get to Super Bowl 3, everybody was referring to the game of Super Bowl. So Pete Rozelle threw the towel in and said, hey, we're going to call this thing the Super Bowl. So that's how it became the Super Bowl. My dad, after the fact, was asked, how in the world did you come up with that? And he said, well, it was really just an awful cuff thought that I had in that moment. But it probably comes from two things. First of all, I've always been a big fan of college football, and I've been to a bunch of cotton ball games. In fact, I think at one point he had a streak of 35 or 40 straight cotton ball games that he had attended. So that's. That's where the bowl came from. And then In December of 1965, my mother had given me, my older siblings, the latest, greatest toy of the day, which was a wham O Super Bowl. And I was one year old at the time, so I don't think I was doing much with my super bowl, maybe, other than gumming it. But my older siblings, who were about six or seven years old, they had those balls, and they were bouncing them all over the house and in the driveway and over the house. And my dad said, you know, that just stuck in my mind. And I probably took super combined with bowl and that's how we got Super Bowl.
- [13:37]
David Novak
I love that story. I never heard that. That's fantastic.
- [13:41]
Kula
Hey, everyone, it's Kula from How Leaders Lead. And if you've watched our podcast for any number of episodes, you probably know that a common theme from all of the great leaders we interview is that they are active learners. They have this commitment to continuing to learn and grow so that they don't stay stagnant and so that they continue to see success, success in their leadership and in their life. This theme of active learning is so important, and it's what David's latest book, How Leaders Learn, is all about. It's all about helping you develop that skill of active learning so that you, too, can continue to see success in your leadership and in your life. The book is really entertaining. It pulls stories from some of our greatest podcast guests and pairs those stories with insights that you can incorporate into your leadership and into your life. Right away, grab How Leaders Learn on Amazon or wherever books are sold, and I think you're really going to love it. You feel David's personality through the pages and through his storytelling, and it's a really powerful way to level up your leadership.
- [14:39]
David Novak
Clark, under your leadership, the Chiefs have made the playoffs 12 times. They've won the AFC west nine consecutive times. You've appeared in five Super Bowls in the last six years, winning three of them. This is what I would call dynasty performance, unquestionably. And when I was the CEO of Yum Brands, we wanted to build a dynasty. That was our objective, was to build the Yum Dynasty. And we didn't want to get results just one year. We want to get great results year after year after year. And that was our goal. So I went out and I visited, you know, the best companies in the world at that time. With my team, we went to Walmart, Southwest Airlines, Coca Cola, General Electric was on fire at that point in time. These were the great companies, and we codified what we called our dynasty drivers. There were five things that we said the great dynasties do, and I believe when I see what's going on with Chiefs, you have all these five. So I'm going to ask you about each one of them, and you already referred to one. The first thing that I learned from the dynasties is they create a culture where everyone counts. And you talked about the important meeting with the team earlier, you know, in the year, talking about how every piece of the cheese really does make a difference. Can you share a story of how you do that with the team and you consistently reinforce that point? Clark, because I know you believe that.
- [16:07]
Clark Hunt
Absolutely. And something that, that you'll hear throughout today is how important the example that my parents said for me. I learned so much from my dad in terms of how he ran the organization, how he valued people and his humility. And he really set the tone by making sure everybody who was a member of the Kansas City Chiefs, whether you were the star quarterback or the guy working in the equipment room, you felt like you were part of our extended family. And to this day, we go to great lengths to make sure that everybody who works for the organization and their family feel like they're part of the chief's family and part of the Hunt family. That's incredibly important. My dad had many wonderful qualities. He obviously was quite a visionary, but he also had tremendous humility. And the way that he treated people, you know, caused them to want to literally run through a wall for him, that they loved him, that that much. And my dad's been gone now for 18 years. And literally every couple of weeks I have somebody come up to me and tell me their Lamar Hunt story. And Lamar Hunt story usually goes something like this. I was a 20 odd year old nobody, and I was sitting in an airport terminal waiting for my flight, and this guy next to me struck up a conversation with me. And after about 15 or 20 minutes, I figured out, wow, this is Lamar Hunt, founder of the afl, owner of the Kansas City Chiefs. And this guy really cares about me. And people love sharing that type of story with me, and it's just such a great example for how to treat people. So coming back to the football team, I really have two opportunities each year to try to set the tone with the team. The first actually just happened a couple weeks ago. We had our rookie minicamp. So we brought in all the players that we drafted this year, as well as some college free agents that we'd signed, and then a bunch of tryout players who had a weekend where they had an opportunity to try to convince the coaching staff that they can be a member of the Kansas City Chiefs. And we have a dinner for them the first night, and there's not a lot of program other than me getting up and welcoming them to Kansas City, to the Kansas City Chiefs, and telling them a little bit about the culture of the organization and what will be expected of them. And I typically will share a little bit about our history, tell about the founding the team course for these young men. That's all a very, very long time ago, but it's a great opportunity to hear about the roots of the Kansas City Chiefs. We also at that dinner have about 20 of our ambassadors. Our ambassadors are former players who work in the community for the team. And so they come and those ambassadors share a little bit about themselves and about their journey and the career that they've had. And it includes a lot of times it'll include pro football hall of Famers, Willie Lanier, Bobby Bell, you know, we're there, there this year. And so the, the combination of having these, these Chiefs legends share a little bit about, about their journey and me having the opportunity to talk a little bit about who the Kansas City Chiefs are and the culture that we have and our expectations for them, I think helps lay, lay the groundwork. Then I'll come back in late July when we start training camp and we have a team meeting the first night of training camp that has all 90 players on the roster at that point, the entire coaching staff and approximately another 50 people from our football side of the organization. So it's a big meeting, but I get in there and talk to them about, you know, who the Kansas City Chiefs are and what our values are. And it's just a great chance for me to share it with him. Of course, for it to stick, you've got to have great team leaders like we do with Travis Kelce, Patrick Mahomes, Chris Jones, because those guys are reinforcing those values in the locker room on a year round basis. But I think it's a great chance for them to hear it from me. Obviously, Coach Reed has created an amazing culture within the team and really helps reinforce the principles that we lay out.
- [21:20]
David Novak
That's great. And the second dynasty driver that we codified was the fact that the great companies, great organization, are maniacal about their customers. And in your case, your fan base and the Kansas City Chiefs have a rabid fan base for sure. How do you keep building the chief's kingdom? How do you keep pouring fuel on the fire?
- [21:45]
Clark Hunt
Well, I'm going to go back to my dad again, which I told you I would. Probably the greatest lesson that he taught me and my siblings is that the pro sports business is really about the fans. And I think a lot of us, when we think about pro sports, the first thing you think about is the star players, the coaches, you know, the great general managers. But one of the points that I make sure that I mention to the players when I have that opportunity to talk to them is to tell them, hey, this is really about the fans. They are the ones that really pay you. The Hunt family doesn't pay you The Kansas City Chiefs don't pay you. It's our fan base. That's why all of us have this amazing opportunity to be part of the National Football League and the Kansas City Chiefs. And so I encourage them that anytime they have a chance with our fans, whether it's at training camp, during the season, at a public appearance, to make sure and tell them, thank you. Right. Because without that fan support, without that passion, the Kansas City Chiefs are not the Kansas City Chiefs. You mentioned that we have an amazing fan base, and we do. It's now in the top two in the National Football League in North America. And we've focused internationally over the last decade. And in most markets, we're either number one or two in terms of the favorite team of football fans who live overseas. So we've made a lot of progress. Obviously, having championship teams, a bunch of super bowl appearances is very helpful to that. But also having players like Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce that fans can relate to and cheer for is a big part of that as well.
- [23:43]
David Novak
Absolutely. And tell us a story about red. Red Friday.
- [23:47]
Clark Hunt
So Red Friday's a great tradition in Kansas City, something that was started by my dad 40 years ago. And on the Friday before the season opener in Kansas City, the entire city of Kansas City is encouraged to wear red. And almost everyone does wear red. Over time, we've also turned it into a great opportunity to give back to the community, which is one of our core values. Again, something that, you know, my dad instilled in the organization. Initially, we sold newspaper inserts that. That had a special section on the Kansas City Chiefs. And then over the last decade, we've started selling Chiefs Kingdom flags. And I should mention, we're really not selling them. We're actually getting donations for these flags. And the beneficiary of Red Friday in recent years has been the Ronald McDonald House of Kansas City. And we've raised over a million dollars for the Ronald McDonald House through the distribution of these flags on Red Friday. So it's a great opportunity for the community to come together, show their excitement and enthusiasm for the upcoming season. But also great opportunity to raise money for a charity that does really important work for families with sick kids.
- [25:19]
David Novak
You know, that's fantastic as well. And another, you know, big dynasty driver with the. Which the great companies do, the great organization do, is they try to really differentiate themselves in everything they do competitively. What do you think you guys do differently that really make you stand out and drives the kind of sustainable performance that you've had?
- [25:41]
Clark Hunt
Well, I Think you mentioned a key word there in sustainable success. When I took over the Chiefs 15 or so years ago, one of my goals was to build a team that could consistently compete for championships. And at the time, I'm sure when people heard that, they were like, well, we would like you to be able to compete for one championship, much less, you know, consistently compete, because, you know, we had some pretty mediocre teams and then some pretty bad, bad teams. You know, back. Back at that point, I knew if we just focused on some of the principles that I believed in, in terms of building a championship team, that over time, we. We could achieve that. The most important asset that you have in a pro sports organization is your people. And, you know, that typically starts with your head coach, and then I would include our general manager and then the president of the organization. So at the Chiefs, those three people report directly to me, and they run their respective areas of the team. And I believe that we have three of the best in the National Football League in Andy Reid, Brett Veach, and Mark Donovan. All three of them do an amazing job. So getting the right kind of leaders into the organization was very important. And that took me a few years. We had a misstep in the football operation, ended up with a couple of coaches that didn't work. Had to make a couple of changes at the general manager position, but we finally were able to get that right. And then, of course, I was so fortunate, so blessed to be able to bring Andy Reid into the team back in 2013. It's not very often that a coach with the type of success that he had enjoyed in Philadelphia is available. And at the time, a lot of people thought, you know, it wasn't a sure thing. Andy might need to take some time away from football. His last two Eagles teams had not been very good. He'd had some issues in his family where he'd had a family tragedy with one of his sons, and they thought he maybe needed some time away from football. But I could just tell in my interview that he was the right guy for the Kansas City Chiefs. He was the right guy for our fan base. He was the right guy for me and our family. And he has been nothing but incredible and is a certain Pro Football hall of Famer, you know, when he retires one day. So, you know, getting Andy was. Was a. Was a key piece to it. But coming back to building a championship team that can actually sustain success, as you're aware, the NFL makes it very hard for a team to repeat as a winner. There are a lot of mechanisms in place that make it a challenge. And, you know, so let's start with the salary cap that constrains what you can spend on your roster. And when you have championship teams, part of that undoubtedly leads to players wanting to improve their financial situation with new contracts, extended contracts, and at the end of the day, you just can't afford to keep everybody. So almost every year, you're saying goodbye to players that you would love to keep, but, you know, you just can't because. Because of the salary cap. Of course, if you have a lot of success, you're also drafting at the bottom of the. The draft. And I would mention that, that the draft is really the. The key to building sustained success. If you don't draft well year in, year out, you absolutely have no chance. You. You cannot fill all the holes with free agents. Just the system's not set up, you know, where that works. And so I want to give the credit to Brett Veach and the job that he's done over the last seven years of really having one outstanding draft after another that has put us in a position to have the sustained success that we've had and hopefully will continue to have in the future.
- [30:08]
David Novak
You know, continuing that. That talent pool is so important. And, and, you know, one. One of the other dynasty drivers that. That we, you know, said this is what the great groups do is, is they. They process and discipline around what drives outstanding execution. And for you, the people execution seems to be the name of the game. Do you have. Do you have special processes that you use that you could talk about that, that. That allows you to get the kind of sustainable performance on that front?
- [30:40]
Clark Hunt
Pro sports teams, you really have two sides to them. You have the football side and everything that's going on from a coaching and a personnel standpoint to drive the sustained success. And then the business side that is hopefully building the fan base, growing the brand, and ultimately growing the revenue? I would say the business side is not different from a lot of businesses. I think the disciplines that you need to have on that side of the business are similar, but it takes a lot of hard work. So one of the things that Mark Donovan, who's been with us for over 15 years, said when he came to the Chiefs is that he was going to build the business side of the organization to be ready to take advantage of the success we were going to have because we weren't successful at the time. And it was hard to sell tickets, it was hard to sell sponsorships, it was hard to get our fan base excited about the Kansas City Chiefs. But he was very intent on making sure that we were doing the right things so that when success did come on the football side that we would be ready to take advantage of it. And I think if you look the last six or seven years and the growth in our fan base that I mentioned, I mean, we used to be somewhere in the 20s from a fan base, and now a small market team in Kansas City is literally at the top of the NFL, you know, from a fan base standpoint, both domestically and internationally. So kudos to Mark and the job that he's done with his team in taking advantage of the opportunity that we've had. Then we jump to the football side. And I'm a big fan of attention to detail and discipline. And those are two things that Andy Reid has in spades. And I think, you know, there's been a drift towards, you know, having coaches who are more players coaches. And some people think that, you know, the old style coach like Lombardi or Landry, you know, wouldn't work in modern football. I'm not sure that's right. But Andy does a great job of bringing enough discipline to the team, but mixing it with the relationship that he has with the players. So he and his wife Tammy really get to know each player individually. And those players know that Andy cares about him off the field. And because of that, you know, when Andy is getting on him or when Andy's running one of his, you know, famous long, hard practices, that player is willing to endure that and give a little bit more because he knows that the head coach cares about him as a person. And then on the personnel side, the discipline that goes into getting ready for every draft is tremendous. And you've got to make sure that you, you don't steer away from the things that have made you successful. And it just takes a lot of hard work. I mean, being a scout is, is a lot of work, a lot of time on, on the road, it's a lot, a lot of digging. But if you don't do that, you'll end up making mistakes. And, and as I mentioned earlier, you can't afford to have a bad draft if you want to sustain success.
- [34:19]
David Novak
You know, that's right. And the last, last dynasty driver is this maniacal desire to just be eargo in everything that you do. You know, how do you instill that in your organization?
- [34:31]
Clark Hunt
Clark? Yeah, well, this is something that I talk with Andy and Brett and Mark about all the time is in the National Football League, you're either getting better or you're Getting worse. Nobody really stays the same. And something that has driven home that point to me in recent time is the amount of turnover that we've had on the Chiefs roster. So it just seems like yesterday that we were playing in Super Bowl Liv at the end of the 2019 season, Patrick was the quarterback. Travis Kelsey, you know, Chris Jones, they. They were key members of the team. But if I asked you how many of the players who were on that Super Bowl 54 team are still on our roster, I bet you would not get the answer correct. And I'm going to go ahead and jump in and tell you that it's only six.
- [35:33]
David Novak
Wow.
- [35:33]
Clark Hunt
Yeah. We have six players from that team, which is now five or six years ago, who are still with us. So that reinforces the point that things change very quickly in the National Football League. And if you're thinking about what you accomplished last year, you have no chance because the team is going to be brand new every year. There are going to be 15 to 20 new players on the roster every year. And you've got to bring them in and you've got to teach them how the Kansas City Chiefs do things. You've got to get them to embrace the culture. And our culture is very much, you know, one where our players, our coaches, and everybody at the organization puts the team and the organization first. And given that there's so much turnover with the roster every year, you're really starting from scratch to some degree. Each team is new, each team is very unique, and our leaders have the challenge of instilling the culture and helping the young players understand what it will take to be successful in the National Football League. And fortunately, with leaders like Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes, we've been able to build sustained success, which in a lot of ways is a credit to their leadership.
- [36:58]
David Novak
We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Clark in just a moment. But since the NFL kicks off this week, I want to go back to my conversation with Eric Wood, the former All Pro center for the Buffalo Bills. I love his take on success because for him, it comes down to patience, to being consistent and letting small wins compound over time.
- [37:21]
Eric Wood
I would say focus on improving every single day. And I think people often will underestimate what they can do in a year and overestimate what they can do in a day. You get so bogged down if that immediate success does not come. But by stacking daily WINS, by getting 1% better each and every day, and just moving the needle a little bit forward, as I talked earlier, about that hockey stick effect that often happens in business. It'll happen you yourself as well. One of the craziest things to me as I learned it was by getting 1% better each and every day, you're not 365% better. At the end of the year, you're actually 37 times better based upon compounding interest because you're getting 1% better of the 1% version of yourself yesterday. And so by doing that, I just believe that you can get so much done in the long run if you're focused on stacking those daily wins.
- [38:13]
David Novak
Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Eric episode 114 here on Hal leaders lead. You know, one of the things that that has really impressed me is, is just how you started saying, look, we're not going to just try to compete one year. We're gonna, we're gonna be set up to win year after year after year. We. Where did you get the guts to come up with that statement when everybody else is saying, hey man, I just want to make the playoffs?
- [38:46]
Clark Hunt
Yeah, that's exactly right. So I had a very special experience with my parents and our family during the 90s. My father and mother were one of the founding investors in the Chicago Bulls all the way back in the late 1960s. And they were the only owners who held on to their ownership stake through the very hard times that came for the NBA and the Bulls in the 70s and 80s. But by the time we get to the 90s, the league had really started to take off with Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. And of course the Bulls were about to have this amazing decade of success with the Michael Jordan led Chicago Bulls. So I had that experience and of course, you know when you're going through it and my dad was always a passive investor there so he, he wasn't involved in, in the day to day wasn't part of all the drama that was going on behind the scenes. But as a family we enjoyed those two three peats so much that I think it may have emboldened me a little bit to dream about doing that with the Chiefs and certainly in the NFL. We've seen other examples of teams that have dynasties or many dynasties, you know, most recently New England, you know, they're almost, you know, two decade run was incredible the success that they had. So they really showed that it's possible, you can do it. Even in the salary cap era of the National Football League. It is, it is possible to do. And so you know, we dream big and you know, by some good Fortune have been able to capitalize on the sustained success that we've had.
- [40:34]
David Novak
You know, when you have strategy and vision and you have a great culture, I mean, that helps you get a lot done. But the other part of that is when you have that strategy, you've got a structure around it to make it happen so that your culture can really come alive and get the results. You talked about the fact that you have, you know, three people reporting to you now. You know, how much did that structure change have to in your mind to do with the turnaround with your GM and your president and your. And your coach? They all report to you?
- [41:09]
Clark Hunt
Yes. Well, so going back to the early days of the Chiefs, my dad had always structured the organization where he hired the general manager, that the general manager hired the head coach, and the head coach reported to the general manager. When I first took over the team in 2007, we had a similar reporting structure. And after having gone through some missteps where I felt like I was really disconnected from the head coach and the decision to hire the head coach in 2012, at the end of that season, when we went through the search that ultimately resulted in Andy Reid, I made the decision that I wanted to be the one who hired the head coach, and I wanted the head coach to report directly to me because I wanted to have weekly interaction with the head coach. By no means am I micromanaging what Andy Reid is doing on the field, and I'm not qualified to do so, but I felt like if I could have that direct relationship, that it would benefit the organization. So we changed the reporting structure where I hired the general manager and I also hired the head coach, and they both report directly to me, and they're on the same level as our president. So I have the three of them on the same level. And it seems like a subtle change, but it was definitely what we needed in Kansas City. And it was critical to. To attracting Andy Reid to the organization. And it's something I feel strongly about now. I'm always pretty quick to say that there are other structures that work in the National Football League. A lot of teams still have the structure where the owner hires the general manager and the general manager hires the coach. But I really think that the way that we do it in Kansas City suits me, suits our family and really the entire organization very well.
- [43:10]
David Novak
One other thing I've learned from doing some homework here is that your staff raves about the fact that you're just a great listener. How'd you develop that skill, Clark?
- [43:19]
Clark Hunt
Again, something that I learned from my dad. Right. He was an excellent listener and really only felt like he needed to speak when he thought he had something that was important. Important for the listener to hear. Right. And I think if you're willing to not try to dominate conversations with your employees, you're going to learn a lot from those employees. And in my case, I like having some time to process it, to think about it, and then come back and help them make a decision that's best for the organization.
- [44:02]
David Novak
Sometimes, Clark, things happen that are totally unexpected and, you know, you have to learn to expect the unexpected. In your case, you have Travis Kelsey hook up with, with Taylor Swift. You know, what kind of impact did that have on your organization from your perspective? And what have you learned just by watching her as a leader?
- [44:25]
Clark Hunt
Yeah. So if we go back to the Beginning of the 2023 season, there were all these rumors that Travis and Taylor were dating. And at the beginning of the season, there were a lot of people who said, oh, it's a marketing stunt. You know, it's not, not, not really happening. And I remember we got to one of our early games, we were playing the. The Chicago Bears. And shortly before the game, I learned that Taylor was actually coming to the game that day. And my family and I had actually seen her in concert at GHA Field at Arrowhead that, that summer. She performed on back to back nights in the middle of the summer. One of the greatest performances I'd ever seen from a musical artist. She went over four hours, no breaks, and was absolutely amazing. And to have her now coming back to one of our games to be there to cheer on Travis and the team, you know, it was unbelievable. Of course, we started thinking about all the complications from a security standpoint. And our team offered to get her in the stadium, you know, through sort of a back door. And she told them no. She wanted to walk right in the front door like any fan would, and she was going to make her way down to Travis's suite. We obviously got her a little bit of security support when she got there, but she did exactly that. She came in and went to Travis's suite. And I think the Internet broke, right. It just absolutely exploded. And I don't remember who was covering that game from a broadcast standpoint point, but they certainly showed her on TV a few times. And, you know, the impact that she's had on our fan base has been profound. We now have the largest demographic of women, specifically young women who are fans of the Kansas City Chiefs, more so than any other team in the League. In fact, at the beginning of last year, 57% of our fan base was female, which was up from about 47 or 48 the year before. So she's had a huge impact on our fan base. And I'll tell you the most tangible way that I see it. So as I travel around the country, I'll run into men that I don't know and they tell me thank you. And I'm like, why are you thanking me? They're not Chiefs fans. And they say invariably something like this. I have a 10 year old daughter who had no interest in the National Football League. And because of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, she has told me that anytime the Kansas City Chiefs are playing, you get me. I want to sit down and watch the game with you. So these dads are getting to watch NFL games with their daughters and they think it's the greatest thing in the world. And of course, it's because of Taylor Swift. That's great.
- [47:40]
David Novak
You know, this has been so much fun, Clark. And I want to have some more with you with what I call my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this?
- [47:46]
Clark Hunt
I hope so.
- [47:47]
David Novak
Okay, what three words best describe you?
- [47:50]
Clark Hunt
Thoughtful, hardworking and perseverance.
- [47:54]
David Novak
Your biggest pet peeve?
- [47:56]
Clark Hunt
I think it's people who don't maximize their potential.
- [48:00]
David Novak
What's a fun fact most Chiefs fans don't know about the Chiefs?
- [48:04]
Clark Hunt
That the team started as the Dallas Texans in 1960, playing at the Cotton Bowl.
- [48:11]
David Novak
What's your most memorable play in the past five seasons?
- [48:15]
Clark Hunt
I would go with Wasp in Super Bowl 54 and Mahomes guns it for 44 yards.
- [48:22]
David Novak
Now, I understand you're a big golfer who's in your dream foursome and which course are you playing at?
- [48:28]
Clark Hunt
Well, I'm gonna go to Augusta national and I'm going to be playing with Scheffler and Tiger and Jack Nicklaus.
- [48:41]
David Novak
What's the one thing you do just for you?
- [48:43]
Clark Hunt
I like to exercise every morning.
- [48:45]
David Novak
Besides your family, what's your most prized possession?
- [48:48]
Clark Hunt
My bible.
- [48:49]
David Novak
If I had turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?
- [48:53]
Clark Hunt
I hate to say it. Country western.
- [48:56]
David Novak
What's something about you? Few people would know.
- [48:58]
Clark Hunt
I love my bicycling. Specifically up really steep hills.
- [49:05]
David Novak
How many Super Bowls did your mother take you to?
- [49:08]
Clark Hunt
Well, she got to see the first 57 before she passed away, and I attended about 25 of them with her.
- [49:16]
David Novak
Awesome. What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss other than.
- [49:22]
Clark Hunt
That exercise in the morning. It's probably that first cup of coffee.
- [49:27]
David Novak
Great. We're out of the lightning round. Good job. Appreciate that. All right, just a few more questions and I'm going to let you go. You know, you attend the owner's meeting and, you know, you've got these titans of industry people who have achieved so much. You know, can you tell us a behind the scenes story of what it's like to be in that meeting?
- [49:50]
Clark Hunt
So those meetings are very fascinating, and I have to give a lot of credit to Roger Goodell and the job he does running those meetings. And probably one of the things that the NFL does best is it has a very robust committee structure where virtually every owner is involved with one or more committees. And because of the work that the committees do, by the time you get to the league meetings where you have all 32 owners in the room, you know, most of the issues have been vetted and you sort of know where we're going to come out in terms of eating, voting for, voting against an issue. There certainly are some big personalities in the NFL ownership, and, you know, sometimes we have issues that aren't easy and it's fun to hear. You know, the owners get up. You know, some of them are very gifted orators, and we have to figure out how to get them to stop because. Because they'll take the floor and we can't get them off the force. Like a filibuster almost. But it's a real privilege to be part of it and something that I really enjoy about the job.
- [51:03]
David Novak
What's something about leadership that you've learned at work? And how have you carried that home with you? And how do you lead it home?
- [51:12]
Clark Hunt
Well, I think one of the most important things that I've learned about leadership throughout my career is, is it's about how you treat people, whether it's somebody that works for you or whether it's one of your customers or just, you know, somebody that you run into on. On the street. And of course, having those same kind of values at home and really valuing the relationship not only with my wife and kids, but, you know, with my extended family is really important to me and our family as a whole.
- [51:49]
David Novak
Clark, what do you see as your. Your unfinished business?
- [51:52]
Clark Hunt
I'm very eager to see how long we can sustain the success that we've had in Kansas City over the last seven or eight years. And our family's also involved with Major League Soccer, and we had the privilege of winning a couple of Major League Soccer cups. One in 2000 with the Kansas City Wizards and then one in 2008 with the Columbus Crew. Our family now owns FC Dallas and we've won a Lamar Hunt US Open Cup. We've won the Supporters Shield, but FC Dallas has never won an MLS Cup. We've been been to the championship game and lost. So I'm eager to get FC Dallas back to the championship game and bring home an MLS cup for our great fans.
- [52:45]
David Novak
And you know, speaking of getting back into the championship game, you did lose the super bowl this past year to all of our, all the Chiefs fans chagrin. How long did it take you to pick yourself back up and say, here we go again?
- [53:01]
Clark Hunt
I think, you know, everybody in the organization went through a period of mourning, but it doesn't last very long. You know, literally the next week our personnel staff had to be in working on free agency in the draft because one of the things about playing in a Super bowl is it delays your staff from getting to next year. And so they were literally right, right back at it. And I think in a lot of ways that was cathartic for them, certainly, you know, for me, you know, you want to move on as quickly as possible when you have a very disappointing defeat like we did in this past Super Bowl. And I can't say how glad I am that we've already turned the page and are now firmly focused on 2025 with the team practicing again at Arrowhead.
- [53:58]
David Novak
Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?
- [54:04]
Clark Hunt
So one of the things that I learned about leadership, and I learned this from my dad, and then it was reinforced by reading about other great leaders, is how important humility is. I think I grew up not really appreciating that. Humility is part of great leadership, and it gets back to putting other people first. If you're willing to do that, that's going to allow you to break through and people are going to be willing to embrace your vision and do whatever it takes to be successful because they know that you care about them.
- [54:42]
David Novak
Well, Clark, I can tell just from this interview you are the definition of a humble leader. You've built such a tremendous organization, had such great results, but you just don't have any air about you that suggests anything other than the fact that you're, you're competent and you inspire people with your, your ability to lead because of that competence. And you're, you're humble enough to know that you, you, you need other people to get to where you want to go. So I've learned a lot from this interview and I want to thank you for. Thank you for being on this podcast.
- [55:16]
Clark Hunt
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, David.
- [55:23]
Podcast Host/Commentator
The turnaround of the Chiefs from a perennial struggle to a team that's heading towards a Super bowl almost every single year, it's been absolutely remarkable. But here's what really impresses me. In practically every answer that Clark gives, he finds a way to give credit to that success to the people around him, whether it's Andy Reid to Brett Veach to his family, to Patrick Mahomes at all the players. That's what great leaders do. They recognize and elevate their teams. When you do that, people feel valued. They feel seen. They know they're trusted. And believe me, when your people feel that way, they will blow you away with their hard work and creativity. And that's when you really see what your team is capable of. So here's your challenge this week. Make it your mission to give credit where it's due. If you get some recognition yourself, shine the spotlight on the people who help make it happen. Make that your posture. And I'm telling you, you're going to build a dynasty of your own. So do you want to know how leaders Lead? What we learned today is that great leaders are quick to give credit to others. Coming up next on How Leaders Lead is Hayden Brown, CEO of Upwork. So be sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast so that you don't miss it.
- [56:40]
David Novak
Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every Thursday, you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be.