← How Leaders Lead with David Novak
How Leaders Lead with David Novak
#261: Nathan Smith, Walker Cup Captain – Know what your people need to excel
00:59:46
Listen to this leadership podcast with Walker Cup Captain Nathan Smith and discover how to unlock your team’s potential so everyone wins together.
Loading summary
Transcript146 lines
- [00:00]
Nathan Smith
We're here to do a job. You know, we're going to have fun, but you know, we got it. We got to lock in and it's going to be no fun if we don't. And you're going to have to own it for life. We don't win this thing.
- [00:14]
David
Well, you know, I know you're the captain of the Walker cup team that just, just won at Cypress Point, but you've also been my partner at the National Senior Junior Amateur Contest. I mean, how's it compared to have the Walker cup experience and the experience we had together?
- [00:32]
Nathan Smith
Well, I'll tell you what, being your partner, there's just as much pressure. I'd say that, you know, that's just as much. But love being playing with you through the years and you've been a great friend and it's been a lot of fun. Thanks for having me.
- [00:45]
David
Well, you know, not only do you run this successful insurance business, you know, you're one of the most decorated amateur golfers in the U.S. history, you know, with four mid M wins, you know, the three Walker Cups, teeing up at the Masters four times. But your recent chapter was a real honor. You were picked to be the captain of the United States Walker cup team and you guys just didn't win. You dominated 17 to 9. I mean that's, that's, that's incredible. So I want to just start out, Nathan, and just congratulate you on your, your fantastic victory.
- [01:18]
Nathan Smith
Well, thanks. That means a lot. I mean, you know, being the Walker cup captain is just, you know, the biggest honor of my life. To be asked that and then to have it at Cypress, to have that incredible group of guys. You always wonder in your life, you know, will you ever be a captain? What kind of team will you get? Like, where would it be? And I couldn't ask for more with the players that were on the team. You know, Cypress is, is incredible. And just the way they played, especially Sunday afternoon to stretch it, it was close. It was close all weekend. Don't let that, don't let that final score fool you. We were only up by a point going in the last, last one. It was nerve wracking stuff. But they all the credit to them. They played incredible Sunday afternoon and.
- [01:55]
David
Well, we'll talk more about that. But first of all, tell everybody about the Walker cup and its importance in golf.
- [02:02]
Nathan Smith
Sure. The Walker cup is really the amateur version of the Ryder cup. And you know, it was, it's probably the biggest honor that an amateur could have to represent their country. There are 10 guys on the United States team and they're 10 guys on the Great Britain and Ireland team. And usually the format of it is it's 36 holes Saturday and Sunday and, and the morning portions of Saturday and Sunday are alternate shot. You have four matches, eight out of 10 guys play. Saturday afternoon is singles, eight out of 10 guys play. And then Sunday afternoon is all 10 guys play in singles. So it's, it's very exciting. And usually it's a two year process. Pretty much the same way the Ryder cup is with they have something world amateur golf rankings and just kind of who's playing their best golf leading up to it. And you're taking about the 10 best amateurs, you know, in the country and it's against Great Britain and Ireland. And you know, it's really an incredible honor. I was lucky to be on three teams and just being the captain of it was, I mean, one of the biggest honors of my life.
- [03:02]
David
Well, you know, you talk about being such a great honor and you know, your name to captain of the United States of America team. That's an amazing thing. You're representing your country. I have to ask you, what were the emotions that you had to feel when you found out that you were going to be the captain?
- [03:22]
Nathan Smith
You know, I think when they, they came up to me and asked me when I wanted to do it, I think I said, you know, I wanted to do it when I was younger, I think maybe I could relate to a lot of the guys and my parents would, would hopefully still be around be able to see it. And I think that, you know, I'd be around to see it, hopefully. And you know, I don't think you really, it really sunk in until you started to kind of get in the meat of it, pick the guys and start to go through the practice sessions of different things and it's like, wow, this is your team and your captain. It really, it's really surreal. But when they asked me, I was, I was blown away and honored and really excited.
- [03:57]
David
What was the emotion you had when they played the Star Spangled Banner and all that? I mean, what was that like the.
- [04:03]
Nathan Smith
Honest story with that? So you're, you're half crying, but during that, you know, I had to raise the flag and I'll tell you a funny story behind it. So I, I was nervous because you got the whole world to your right. It's on TV, you got 5,000 people right there. And, and I said, I gotta raise the flag, so you gotta hook the flag. And they said, don't Worry, you know, this color guard, they do it for you, they hook it on and then you gotta raise it. So I, you know, all of a sudden the music starts and you're lumping your throat, you're almost crying, but all of a sudden you realize they handed me the flag. Now I have to rig up the flag and slowly do this. And one of the little things was jammed and you got the whole world to your right and the music's playing and you're like, I gotta raise this flag. So I'm trying to murmur to these people, hey, do I have it on right? Do I have it on right? You know, I'm kind of like miming that they're not responding. So I finally hook it on and I'm slowly raising it and now I'm thinking, oh my gosh, what if it's upside down? What if this flag's upside. So luckily I see it, it's you know, going up perfectly and it's like slow. But you know, the way they're telling me, they're like, oh, it's fine. They hook it on, sing Happy birthday real slow. It's a piece of cake. And it was a little nerve wracking stuff. Instead of having an emotional moment, I really needed to get this flag hooked up quick and get it, get it headed up the flagpole.
- [05:15]
David
So, you know, very few people ever get to set foot at Cypress Point, you know, let alone compete at the Walker cup there. As a captain. What made captain such a historic venue like that? How did you feel about Cypress Point and just doing it there? I mean that's just such an amazing place.
- [05:36]
Nathan Smith
And a couple years ago they, I had never been there. I'd been out obviously and played pebble and Spyglass and all those amazing course out there. I'd never, I'd driven by probably like everyone else on 17 mile and what hole was that and different things. They had, you know, the membership had me, me out and we went out for, with the USJ kind of like with some logistics and I mean it's just the most beautiful place on earth. I think that, you know, it's, it's the most beautiful, iconic, you know, golf club in the world and to have it there was, I mean you couldn't ask for anything else honestly. And then, and then I think the way with everything they did with Drones high def west coast time that people could watch I'd probably say was the most, you know, one of the most watched ones at least from all the text emails and everything and calls I got but you couldn't ask for anything more. I think it's the, I think it's the most beautiful club in the world and also it's the best with the best people. I mean, that's something I realized going out there. I mean, the people are better than the club. They're so generous and giving and they were so excited to have it there. And I think both teams felt that through the week we were, we had the best experience our lives there, both teams. So we, I mean, it's like you kind of, it's heaven on earth. Like I died and went to heaven. It was unbelievable.
- [06:48]
David
What was your process for selecting the team, Nathan?
- [06:51]
Nathan Smith
Well, there's a lot of guys. I mean, now it's tough. That's a great question, because it's tough. There's so many guys now. And I think you have to look a little bit beyond what their world Amateur golf rankings were. I mean, a lot of times you can just, this guy's ranked number six. We're going to take him. And I think it's a two year process, but you accumulate points, you know, by your finishes and different things like that. But I think when it came down to it, a lot of the guys, the top six or seven guys, they had earned it. There was a reason they, they should be there at the end. They won some events. But the last couple guys, I think that, you know, I think with what they went through or how they would, you know, maybe fit in on the team or how they were playing at that time, you know, playing their best golf going into. And that's, that's similar to the Ryder cup too. You want the best guys playing their best golf going into September in the Walker Cup. And I think I looked at personalities too, and I think it was a good, good mesh.
- [07:45]
David
Golf is such an individual game, you know, the performance and how well you're playing, how much was the factor of whether that person would be a good teammate, come into play or did it, I mean, or does that even matter in golf?
- [07:59]
Nathan Smith
I would say they're all incredible guys and there were no problems with anything like that. They're all incredible young men and if you weren't, you wouldn't be in that. And I'd say we had a great committee within the usga. It wasn't just me. In fact, I would say technically I don't have a vote. I'm in the things I might have input. But they have an incredible its committee that studies and different things like that. So they were extremely helpful. But I think it's interesting because at the back of your head, you do have to think about half the event. Saturday and Sunday morning is alternate shots. So you have to find people that feel comfortable with each other, playing with each other. And GB and I, they're so good at alderman shot. They played that all their lives. So that's half the event. So you gotta be ready to think, who. Who are these, Some of these guys gonna be able to play with and match them up appropriately?
- [08:45]
David
Yeah, and how'd you go through that? How'd you go through the process of saying, hey, this guy would be good with X, would be good with Y.
- [08:52]
Nathan Smith
That was tough. I mean, that was tough because, you know, you get out there basically every. And now these guys are everywhere. It's funny, a lot of them are younger, they're playing in junior events. That U.S. amateur lasted all August. You know, guys are playing in pro events, guys are going back to school. So when we got out there, we got out there on a Friday and half some of the team was playing in a Carmel cup up at the Preserve, you know, kind of all these schools, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and different things. So we had about three or four guys playing in that event. So we didn't get the whole team together till Sunday. Monday we had to go over and play Pebble. And then all of a sudden you're in a Tuesday and we don't really have our teams set. So I mean, I had in my mind who I wanted to play with. And we played nine holes and then we'd flip flop and I was just trying out some pairings. I had a couple that I think some guys like Preston Stout and Ethan Fang, both go to Oklahoma State. They had played before in the Palmer cup, and I thought they were good, but really you just had to kind of talk to the guys and listen and see who they feel comfortable with and what the. Who they, who they match up with. And you really, you had to listen to them. And not that we were great in that two sessions, but, you know, that was the best. That was the best we could do. So you really listen to them and try to put, put them in best situation to succeed.
- [10:07]
David
You know, Take me back to that first time when you sit in front of them as their captain. What'd you tell them?
- [10:13]
Nathan Smith
Well, I mean, honestly, I think that I told them a lot. I think that you want to set the tone for the week. I think that just, I mean, you asked the question. Being honest, I think you, you know, I think I told them how much it meant to be to be their captain. I think I told them what type of captain I wanted to be. I wanted to, you know, anything you need, talk to me, anything you want, you know you're going to get it. Please communicate with me. I want to put you in situations to succeed. I would say, though, I, and I think I told him it's the biggest honor of my life to be your captain. I've watched you guys for two years, been an honor to watch you guys play. But I think you also wanted to set, you know, a little bit of the expectation. You know, we're just not out here, you know, to kind of get a bunch of free clothes and 17 mile and go to the bar at Spanish Bay. We're here to, to do a job. And I think you have to set that. You have to set that expectation. You had to set the tone with the team. You know, we're not here, we're here to do a job. You know, we're going to have fun, but, you know, we got it. We got to lock in and it's going to be no fun if we don't. And you're going to have to own it for life. We don't win this thing. So I think it was an expectation that was set. I think the stakes were as high as they could ever be. I think it was a little bit of that. I said a lot of that and then I said a lot through the week. I think there were some pump up speeches and some different things that you kind of had to keep them motivated and keep them going.
- [11:35]
David
What was your biggest pump up story? Do you remember that one?
- [11:39]
Nathan Smith
I'll tell you a funny story is Friday night you got to give them the pump up speech. You got to get every, every type of ammo you can give them. I mean, and I would say, I would say too, I mean, I think there's something. If we've won the last few or whatever. I think I don't want there to be a malaise where it's like we're just going to go out there and you think you guys are going to win. That's not the case. So I, I really let it go. It kind of gave him every, every ounce of ammunition I could and it was, I thought it was good. The funny story to that though, is I would tell you, I thought it would stay in the team room, you know, when you talk to the guys. I didn't know a lot of the guys loved it so much. They were going to go tell their parents and then the next Day, the parents come up and they're kind of repeating some of the words I might have said.
- [12:26]
David
What were they repeating that you're kind of having. What'd you say?
- [12:29]
Nathan Smith
Well, you know, there might have been just a little language. There might have been a little language there that I thought might stay in the team room and different things, but that might have got back to the parents. So the parents are coming up kind of needling me. Oh, yeah.
- [12:40]
David
You know, that's what's so funny, Nathan, is I've played golf with you many times, and I don't think I've ever heard you say a foul word in your life.
- [12:47]
Nathan Smith
I usually don't. I can't say I said. I can't say I said a lot of them, but, you know, sometimes you just. You got to say it. You got to let it go, you know, it just. It is what it is. It is what it is. It's your team. You got it. You got to have them ready. And you just, you know, if you see something, I think anytime you're a captain or a coach, you know, if you see something and you think they need it, you're going to say it. I'd say, like, Sunday afternoon, they were playing incredible, and it's almost like. I'm not going to say. It's like a coach that's not going to call timeout. I'm going to find a shady tree. I'm going to shut up, you know. Now if some guy's two down at the turn, I might go up, I might slap them. Hey, what's up? What do you need? Go get it. You know, slap him on the rear end. But, you know. Right, right. Then you're not going to call timeout. I liked what was going on, but, you know, if you see the guys and you think they need a little boost, you know, I gave them a. Gave them a little boost. So it's just.
- [13:36]
David
It is.
- [13:37]
Nathan Smith
I didn't know they're going to go back and tell their parents about it, but the parents liked it, too. Maybe they'll sit. Maybe they should have sat in the, you know, the team room, too.
- [13:45]
David
You started. Maybe you start a new tradition next time, you know. So what were some of the ways you went about building team chemistry and the culture that you wanted to have? Because it is a process. The guys play together. You went to different venues together. How did you. How'd you build the chemistry and the culture?
- [14:02]
Nathan Smith
Well, I think you do that before the team was assembled, I would say you look at. And I think A lot of these guys played a lot of junior golf together. I think that. I think they knew each other, but I think, you know, how the team was selected in a certain way. I think that. That I. I thought that it was selected the right way to. To build that culture. So it's a little bit, you know, before it even started. I thought we had a great nucleus for that. And then I think, you know, I think building up through the summer, you just. You just tried to make it apparent to have, like, pretty much like a touch point with. With every guy on the team before we even got out there. I think that at, let's say, a Northeast Dam or Sunnyham and a Western usm, I would. I would make it a point to go have lunch with somebody, go have dinner with somebody. And as the team grew, let's say, you know, right after the US Open, we selected their first three guys. Then in mid July, we sec. We selected, you know, another couple, and then the last four, I. Through the course of that, I would have those guys kind of get together kind of, you know, some text changed, kind of some. Some dinners, and then, you know, the week. Then we finally got everybody together. I think we had some fun nights, you know, and dinners and different things. It's tough because everybody's everywhere anymore. A lot of these guys are playing pro events, playing junior events. They're playing college, they're playing. So it's hard to get everybody together. But I think, you know, different things in different ways and camaraderie and, you know, certain games on the course to make them, you know, play as a team, not. Not just so much individually. It's hard because you had got 10 individuals that have all those. Their idiosyncrasies to prepare. Some guys, they don't want to hit range balls. Some guys like to play a lot of holes. Other guys need to hit 300 balls a day and need their. Their track man or their quad. They need their coach. You really had to bring all of it together. You had to let them be themselves, but in the framework of the team and whatever they needed, you had to give it to them.
- [15:58]
David
You know, on the US Roster, you had some of the, obviously the best amateurs in the world playing on it. And so what's your advice on managing exceptional talent like that?
- [16:09]
Nathan Smith
It was funny because I'll tell you a funny story. On the ninth hole of number nine at Cypress, short par four, and I'd probably say day one gb, and I was playing it incredible. They all had a strategy to lay up to 110 yards, hit the wedge shot. And we were kind of making a mess of it. And these guys, you know, we were hitting into the dunes. You know, a couple guys would hit a great shot, make a birdie, but. And I'm up on the ninth green at Cypress because you can kind of see everything, and you can kind of see if everything wants. And I mean, I'm catching heck from Roger Maltby. And some, you know, people are like, your guys are out of control. They're. And I think my thing is to manage exceptional talent. You just can't muzzle a racehorse. I'm not going to tell these guys how to play golf. You know, I'm not going to tell them like you, you're here for a reason. You're. And that's pretty much what I told him, that you're all unique. Go be you. Go be you. Go be great. And I think for. My responsibility is to give them every ounce of ammunition they need, give them every rep at the range, run them around, whatever they want to eat, whoever they want to play with, where they want to go in the lineup. That. That was key, too, to talk to the college coaches, talk to them. Some guys, they get itchy. They have to go off first. Other guys want the ball last. They want to go off late. Some guys need to go off in the middle. I think that. I think you just need to give them whatever you can to be successful and put them in situations to succeed. And don't. I wasn't going to be like, yeah, you're going to hit this here. I'm not going to tell, you know, Mason Howell just won the USA Amateur. I'm not going to tell him how to play golf, you know, So, I mean, it's just like, here it is. You do you. You do what you want to do, and, you know, it's. It's pretty much as simple as that.
- [17:51]
Kula
Hi, friends, it's Kula. Don't forget to stay tuned to the very end of the episode where David and I debrief the conversation that he has with Nathan Smith. Even if you're not a golf fan, there are some very, very relevant topics that he and Nathan discuss in this episode and that David and I debrief at the very end of the episode. So make sure you stay tuned all the way till the end. You won't want to miss it.
- [18:12]
David
You know, you win going away, 17 to 9, but it was close. And, you know, after the first day, you're only up a point. You know, how do you coach the team to navigate that pressure. And what were you feeling? How was the pressure affecting you?
- [18:25]
Nathan Smith
Well, we were down. It's funny, I just saw Buddy in Pittsburgh, and we. We got a. He got a picture. I was coming up 18, and we were down 3 1. It was that morning session, and he sent me the picture, and he goes, man, you look white as a ghost in this picture, because I don't even remember. I don't even remember taking it with him. So I don't think they flinched. But I think after that morning session, I think we got in the tent, we just talked like, listen, we got eight matches this afternoon. Go out, play. Well, you know, it might have been a little more animated than that. We're going to grind them down. You know, we're going to get back into this thing. Let's get back. Let's have a go. Let's go have a great session. We feel good, what we're doing, and they stepped up, and we managed to get a point ahead of them. And so there was a little bit like. Yeah, we kind of had to refocus. You kind of had to claw your way back into it. It was a blowout. But, I mean, it was in the after. But, I mean, it was. Holy cow. I mean, it was. It was. We were only up by a point, and they were only up by a point going in the Sunday singles. And I watched Jackson Koivan. It was probably our best player. You've seen what he's been doing on the PGA Tour and all those finishes. And I watched him get on the first hole and lose the first hole, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, boy, here we go. We're. We're in it now. And he came back and won. But.
- [19:32]
David
Well, you never, ever show that you're under pressure.
- [19:35]
Nathan Smith
Well, you can't do that. I don't think you can do that. I mean, I don't think you can do that. You're. You're turning inside. I mean, I would say the pressure is tremendous. At end of the day, it's your team. It's. It's all going to be on you. Winning has a thousand fathers. Losing is an orphan. You lose, it's going to be all on me. I accepted that. And. But you can't. You can't show these guys that, you know, you got to stay loose. You got to keep them hyped up.
- [19:58]
David
Well, how do you do that? I mean, how do you not show pressure when you're feeling that? You're like a. I think you mentioned to me, once you're like a duck.
- [20:04]
Nathan Smith
Well, you just, you got to. You got to stay talking. You got to slap them. You got to, you know, slap on the rear. You say, let's go. You know, let's grind them down. You know, your different things. You're staying loose. You're not going to go in the corner and. And. And just sulk or be quiet. Everybody's looking to you to, to set the tone. And, you know, you got to clap a little bit and just say, you know, you know, get the positive. There's a heck of a shot. You hit on 15. Great putt. Let's go. You know, and some guys, Some guys need it, other guys don't, that are locked in there, but you just need to know your team and who needs what and all the different personalities. But I think you just got to keep it loose. And, you know, we basically just came in and we just said we were having lunch. Yeah, we're going to go grind them down this afternoon. Let's go get them.
- [20:43]
David
And speaking of grinding down, and in the second day in the afternoon singles, you. You basically dominate them. You only lost one match out of ten. What'd you say to the guy that lost?
- [20:58]
Nathan Smith
Wow. Yeah, I didn't say anything. He was. I didn't say anything, that's for sure. So he was a lot. I mean, he was. There's actually a funny story real quick about that where we're. We're on and it doesn't matter. He's an incredible player, Michael Assassin, but with the fog rolled in, if you watched it. And we got out on 16 and he was down, and I thought we were going to call the match, and we were going to have this moment where Dean and I were going to shake hands. He was going to see, but. And we got up to the tee and the GB and I guy hit it into the fox. So it's like they wanted to play. And then Michael and I, I mean, Mike's like, he. We couldn't see. We thought he might have hit it in the ocean. And Michael's like, should I lay up? Is this an embarrassing thing? So we're on national tv, kind of like this with her. Anyway, he ended up laying up. They have the hole. Then he hit it up against the fence on 17 and he whiffed the ch. And it was just. It was fun. The guy. At that point, it was over. So the guys were, you know, laughing a different thing. And he was really. I'd say he was the lifeblood of the team. And really kept everything loose and fun. He was, he was a key person of the team. So it was okay. It was okay that he did that. He's an incredible young man.
- [22:03]
David
Yeah, well, he was incredible and it was an incredible performance by the entire team. And you know, I want to shift gears for a little bit here now, Nathan. And what's the story from your upbringing that shaped the kind of leader you are today?
- [22:16]
Nathan Smith
That's a great question. You know, you'd probably have to say anytime you talk about your upbringing, you have to talk about your parents. You know, I think my parents are really supportive of anything I did probably say came from humble beginnings, you know, in Brookville, a small, hard working, small town and western PA with a lot of people that worked hard and you know, really nothing was given. You had to kind of work for it. And that was really like everybody in the town. Anything you wanted, you had to go after. It was hard work. Nothing, nothing was easy. Whether it was school, sports, work. I think that town in particular was very hard working blue collar. And I think probably I'd say a lot of that, you know, credit to that. I mean everything was a little bit of an uphill climb. Nothing, nothing was easy. So yeah, I think that. And then, you know, going forward, I think there's certain people that you go through and work and mentors or people that bring you along and in business or take you under their wing and you learn from. And whether that goes from, you know, somebody in high school or college or, you know, I think that anytime and then you try to kind of somewhat probably pay that forward. If I could help somebody else who helped me, you know, mentored me in business, you know, so that's the best way I could probably, probably describe it.
- [23:37]
David
You know, in my research I read an article that said that this about you said you're a four time NCAA All American, two time academic All American, the 2001 Division 3 National runner up. Smith didn't just compete, he elevated everyone around him. How did you show up in a way that, that it wasn't only about your success but that you raised the bar for, for everyone.
- [24:05]
Nathan Smith
I think for me I loved sports. I loved all sports. I loved basketball, I love baseball. It kind of landed on golf. I couldn't get enough of anything. I'd probably say I'm a high rep guy. I love, there's a fear of failure that I love practicing, but at the same time there's a feel of failure. And I'd probably say especially in college, I mean there were a Lot of times that there were some snowy days that we were loading up the car and got all the bags and back. We're going to the range altogether. And it was kind of like after everybody was out of class, we're going to hit some balls. And, you know, I think I. I don't know. I think I'm a people person, too. I'm not really. I mean, even though golf is somewhat of a lonely individual sport, I think I'm a people person, always had people around. And, you know, I wanted what's best for the team, and I wanted to have a national championship team. I wanted to compete. I wanted to be the best. You know, I wanted it for myself, but I wanted it for everyone else, too. And, you know, that's. That's a great quote. That's nice, whoever said that. But I feel like, you know, everybody else, we were all kind of in it together and wanted to win the fun. The fun's always in the winning. So we wanted to. We wanted to go do it, you know.
- [25:11]
David
And you built such a successful career in insurance, but how did you first get started in that business? Nathan?
- [25:18]
Nathan Smith
Coming out of Allegheny College, I went. I got my MBA in finance in graduate school. And then I had met someone that had an insurance business and started working for them. And then I met somebody else, and through USI went over and actually, somebody who kind of mentored me kind of brought me over, and I think it was an incredible fit. And I'd done a lot of joint work with that person, and they kind of pulled me over. And it's been great. It's been great. So I think that that's something I just got in. It's usually like. It's amazing with golf, the people you meet and friendships and business relationships that develop through that. And it was something that I. That it was kind of timely where I was just out of grad school and met a few people and kind of off and running, you know.
- [26:11]
David
And insurance is all about understanding risk, and golf is, too. I mean, you have to really think about what's going on out there in that course. What have you learned about risk management that applies across both.
- [26:22]
Nathan Smith
Well, I would say I'm a little less. I'd say I'm a little more. With some clients of ours, I'm not really cutting them loose like we are some of the players. I was letting them go. We're not exactly. I wouldn't let them hit it all over the place. So we're a little more structured and everything in the work aspect of it. But I think with that, I think that everybody has their own individual business. There's everything from construction and manufacturing to real estate and maybe some cannabis companies that I do. I think they all have their individual thing. They're not. You're not any type of cookie cutter. You have to let them be yourself, themselves, and deal with that and adapt to their business and help them as far as their individual risk. And it's the same with the 10 guys on the team. I mean, everybody has their different. They're all 10 different individuals, and you got to let them be themselves. There's not one cookie cutter theme. They're all different. Everybody's different. And you have to adapt to change. You have to adapt to different individuals and their needs. That probably overarches. I think the other thing with golf and business, I'm always been like a high rep guy. I think that if you're practicing any sport, I think you have to practice so much a day. I think you have to make so many phone calls. You have to be, you know, do this for your clients. And, you know, I think that in golf, if you want to practice, you got to hit a lot of golf balls. So, I mean, both are like, you know, I believe in reps, I believe in hard work, and. And those are kind of the overarching themes.
- [27:49]
David
Tell me a story about the biggest risk that you've taken in your career and what the outcome was.
- [27:55]
Nathan Smith
I don't know. Maybe I'm about to take it. I don't know. I don't know. That's a great question. Yeah, I think I would probably say the biggest risk is when you leave somewhere and go somewhere else. I think you have to believe in yourself. You have to believe in the people around you. I did that. I think that you can get comfortable in certain things in life. You know, I don't really believe in jumping around, but at that time, I needed to make a change with my job. I believe some of the people that were over there, and I think you have to believe in the people you're working with and want to kind of evolve with them in different things. And you always have to keep getting better. That's tough to do. I mean, if people out there, it's tough to. To change jobs and change and believe and take a step with faith. And it's not always about if you're getting a few more dollars. I think it's just. It's hard. So I'm sure a lot of people have done that. I was no different, that I had to go to a different job. And it was tough. It's tough, but it was rewarding.
- [28:59]
David
You know, insurance is all about building relationships and trust, like so many other businesses. But how do you build that kind of trust that allows you to win in the marketplace, whether it's, you know, with your customers? And obviously, you did it, you know, with the Walker cup team.
- [29:16]
Nathan Smith
I would probably say you have to double down. Listen, it's great. At the end of the day, it's great. I met a lot of these people through golf, but I think you have to show them that you're there for them. It's like, we're not just being with you for you, so you can go out and play golf and different things. You know, I've got a great team around me. We're great with service. You know, we're constantly there. We're. We're. I think you just need to show. I would say it's almost like with all the great golf stuff, you almost have to double down and show them you're working twice as hard, like, you know, I'm there. It's not just like, hey, that's great. I saw you on tv. What about our program? You know, so have a great team around me of individuals. But at the same time, I'd probably say I try to show that I'm working a lot, you know, twice as hard, that I'm. That I'm there. So. And I appreciate them. And, you know, we do a lot of things outside the office, too, and different things, but that we're working hard and saving them. Money is huge.
- [30:08]
David
You know, I don't mean to insult you on this, Nathan, but I don't think too many coaches would necessarily teach people your swing, your golf swing, you know, but. Because I like the result. I like the result of what happens after you. But you tee the ball up higher than anybody I've ever seen. You got this little pause at the top that's. It's kind of jerks up there a little bit. It's not exactly a. It's not, like, beautiful. You know, you perform at the highest levels. Like I said, the result is always there. And I'm sure people have tried to mess with your swing, but how do you internally build that conviction to stick to your guns?
- [30:47]
Nathan Smith
Well, I would say I feel like, you know, I did have some shoulder surgery, so at times. I've told you this before, I feel like a bird with one wing, you know, trying to fly. It is a little. To people. It's not to people listening, it's not the worst swing in the world, but anyway, it's okay. It's not like I'm like, you know, I can't make contact. I'm trying to think. It's not like Charles Barkley swing or something. No, no. You.
- [31:08]
David
You've played in the Masters four times.
- [31:10]
Nathan Smith
Yeah, well, there's hope for everyone with. If you watch me hit a ball, there's hope for everyone. I played four times. Everybody out there should. Should know. They should, you know, have a chance to do that. Listen, it's. As you get older, you have surgeries. It is what it is. But I think it's just through repetitions, through different things. You know, fortunately or unfortunately, that's me. That's my body. That's how I swing.
- [31:33]
David
So are you saying you had a really great swing at one point in time and now it sucks?
- [31:37]
Nathan Smith
I can't even say. I don't even know. I don't even know. That's what I'm trying to stick with right now. That's what I'm going. Well, before you met me, you should have seen me. Yeah, probably not, but it is what it is. I don't know. It's just that people's bodies move in different ways. I wish I could swing, Swing like Adam Scott or Tiger. I just. I, you know, I am what I am. There you go.
- [31:58]
David
Popeye the sailor man. You know, so. So you did play in the Masters four time. What. What's your favorite story inside the ropes at Augusta National?
- [32:06]
Nathan Smith
Well, I think that, you know, playing with Palmer, Arnold Palmer, and his Last one in 2004, to. To. To come up 18, play with him for two days. And his last one was really special. You know, I had my dad on the bag all four times when I played. That was special. He had the biggest white jumper on and everything that you gotta wear the Caddy bib. I just think being with Palmer on that back nine was really special to see. You know, first of all, there were so many people out there, it felt like a sec football game. It was like 50 deep everywhere. You know how that gets out there. And just the whole. Seemed like the whole course descended on, you know, Palmer's back nine, and it was. It was unbelievable to see the love and support for him and just to be a part of that, I'd probably say in ways that kind of got me ready for some other stuff, because once you play in that. In that atmosphere, everything else feels like a club championship because there's so many people. But that was one of the highlights And I think even earlier that week, staying in the Crow's Nest. At that time, I came back from dinner one time, and I think all the champions were. At that time, they were in that clubhouse upstairs. And to see them all with the green jackets and. And as I walked past, they were getting pictures. It was incredible. But they're little funny stories through the course of the week where they give you kind of like a club car and you go out with the family to, like, Carrabba's, and you have this Masters, Lexus or Cadillac, and everybody comes in, they're looking for, oh, there's a master's car, there's a player in here. And meanwhile, you're thinking, that's me. I'm sitting here with my family. But they're looking for some pro because they see the master's vehicle outside. But it was truly an incredible experience being down there and on the grounds. It was almost, you know, too much fun. It was. It was. It's hard to even describe it or put it in words.
- [33:48]
David
So you get to play with the great Arnold Palmer, you know, who's also from Pennsylvania, you know, had to be your. Your hometown hero almost. You know, what'd you pick up by being around him that you think every leader should remember?
- [34:03]
Nathan Smith
I think the first thing that you see with Arnold Palmer is just how he treats people. I think he. He has time for every autograph. He signs his name perfectly every time. If anybody has an Arnold Palmer autograph, his name's legible. It's perfect. He has time for everyone. I don't think I've just seen anybody that. I think everybody that's been around him has just had a great experience. And I think the way he makes people feel, I know how he made me feel, and I know everybody in Western Pennsylvania loves him. I mean, he's their hero. He's always taking time to be around people, to talk to people, to take a picture, to take an autograph, to do a favor, to do a charity. It's really endless. And I think, you know, everybody has a story, how Arnold Palmer touched their life. And that's probably what, you know, leaders, if you have time for people, if you engage in people, how you make them feel, if you uplift them, you know, you're going to get much better, you know, results and everything. And Palmer was just, you know, there's nobody like Honor Palmer.
- [35:02]
David
You got to play in the Masters, which is great. But, you know, as we mentioned earlier, you played in three Walker Cups, and now you've been a captain of a Walker cup team. Would you rather play or be a captain?
- [35:12]
Nathan Smith
If. If we're going to win, I'd rather be a captain. I don't know if I could go. I tell you what, it's like. I don't know if I could go through that again. That was. That was so intense. The pressure was. You know, there's nothing like being a winning captain, I would say, because it's your team, it's all on you. And the stress, it's a helpless feeling. I mean, you can't. You can't play. It's. They're all watching it. I mean, you get. And you make the lineups. You do everything. If you're a player, you just go play and you're one of 10 guys and, you know, you try to, you know, do what you can. But. But the. The pressure of being a captain, especially at Cyprus with. I felt like it was like, the most watched and. And just. It was. It was a lot. It was a lot of pressure. So thank goodness we. Thank goodness we got it done.
- [35:59]
David
So you'd rather be a winning captain than a player?
- [36:02]
Nathan Smith
Yeah, if I could be a winning captain.
- [36:04]
David
Thank God you won because I think I wouldn't be having this interview with right now even if I tried.
- [36:09]
Nathan Smith
I told you I would have walked right in the ocean, given my body, the seals. You wouldn't. You wouldn't have seen me ever again.
- [36:14]
David
You know, this has been so much fun, and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions with you, Nathan. So you're ready for this?
- [36:21]
Nathan Smith
Okay, I'm ready.
- [36:22]
David
The three words that best describe you.
- [36:24]
Nathan Smith
Fun, intense, hardworking.
- [36:26]
David
What's your. Your biggest pet peeve?
- [36:28]
Nathan Smith
People not trying.
- [36:29]
David
Who would play you in a movie?
- [36:31]
Nathan Smith
Brad Pitt.
- [36:32]
David
What's the lasting memory of. Of making the winning putt at the 2013 Walker Cup?
- [36:38]
Nathan Smith
I think hugging Jim Holgreaves, my captain, who was out there following. I gave him a big hug.
- [36:45]
David
Imagine this is the final round of a big tournament. You're on the 18th hole. It's a par 4, and you need a. Need a birdie to win, but someone has to hit the shots for you. Okay, who hits the drive?
- [37:00]
Nathan Smith
Rory McIlroy.
- [37:02]
David
Who's hitting the approach shot?
- [37:03]
Nathan Smith
Colin Morikawa.
- [37:05]
David
Who's putting?
- [37:06]
Nathan Smith
Tiger Woods.
- [37:07]
David
I thought you'd say yourself, except for your humble, because you are not the flag.
- [37:12]
Nathan Smith
I'll take the flag out for Tiger.
- [37:14]
David
You're the best. You're the best amateur putter in the world. Everybody knows that. Okay, what's the one thing you do.
- [37:22]
Nathan Smith
Just for you, Work out.
- [37:24]
David
Besides your family, what's your most prized possession?
- [37:27]
Nathan Smith
Probably I got a signed flag from Tiger from the Walker Cup. That probably take precedence right now.
- [37:34]
David
If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?
- [37:38]
Nathan Smith
Actually, you wouldn't hear anything. I hardly ever listen to the music. Seems like I'm always talking on my phone.
- [37:45]
David
What's something about you?
- [37:46]
Nathan Smith
Few people would know, I think in closed quarters. I think I'm extremely funny. You would know that. But it can get really funny.
- [37:56]
David
And what's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss?
- [38:00]
Nathan Smith
You know, I try to get to the gym every day. I try to get to the gym every day.
- [38:04]
David
You should look a lot thinner.
- [38:05]
Nathan Smith
You know, I should look a lot better. I always say this to people. It's scary. A lot of people listening this are like, this guy is an awful swing. He's. He's awful. I mean, it's like, you know, I. What if I. I always say, what if I didn't work out?
- [38:18]
David
You look great. Your swing is not that bad For a guy who's had a number of injuries. You look very good. All right, we're out of the lightning round. Here we go. We're going to wrap this up with a few more questions. But, you know, one thing about golf that requires such. It requires such mental aptitude, you know, the ability to be focused and to stay in the present. And how do you think golf and business compare in that? And how have you brought the golf mindset to business?
- [38:46]
Nathan Smith
Well, if you play a golf course, there are always going to be ups and downs. You know, there are obstacles everywhere. You know, sand traps, tiered greens, fast greens, wind, everything. I think that, you know, the highs and lows of around are. Are how life is. I think how businesses and you just have to keep. You just have to keep going. You just have to keep grinding out. I mean, I think that golf has always been an extension of somebody's personality. I mean, that's what I love playing with you. You're such a grind. You're never going to give up. Doesn't matter what happens. High, low, whatever, you're the next shot you're going full bore on. And I just think that golf really, you know, reveals somebody's personality, and that's just life, like life and business. I mean, everybody's had up and downs, and you just got to keep going. You just got to keep trying, grinding, just going forward. And I think that that's. That's something that golf has, you know, probably taught Me, mentally, that, you know, comes into business and vice versa, you know, with.
- [39:46]
David
With the 17:9 score that you had this year with the Walker cup victory, that really made a huge statement. How do you think this group will go down in Walker cup history in terms of just the caliber of the team you're always.
- [40:01]
Nathan Smith
You're always viewed, you know, how you win, who's on the team. I think now it'll be fun to watch these guys kind of go to the next level. Some of them might be on, you know, next year's team, but I think a lot of them will go on the tour and do some things. And I think that it's a group that. What's special about the Walker cup is you always have the text chain that'll keep going. It could be Christmas Eve, could be New Year's Eve. Guys are sending funny things, and that still goes on to the. The teams that I played, you know, 15 or 16 years ago. You know, you're forever. All you guys, the guys who are on the team were all thrown into a foxhole. It was kind of us versus the world. Even though if you're home or away and you're forever bonded by that, and if somebody does something great, we're all texting and, you know, there was even a couple tournaments the week after, guys are texting saying, hey, great job, and you'll have that text chain forever. And you always have those guys forever. And if I. What I told him, you know, Sunday night, I said, hey, if you guys. I love you guys. You're incredible. If you did absolutely anything in life, you know, I'm here for you, and that's. I'll do anything for those guys, and, you know, I'm always going to be there for them. So it's really special group.
- [41:11]
David
If you could make a prediction, Nathan, on who on that team has the potential to be the number one golfer in the world, who would it be?
- [41:20]
Nathan Smith
Well, I think there are a number of guys that honestly have that potential. You know, I think that I. They get mad at me if I say. But there, there's, you know, I think a lot of those guys coming out, whether it's, you know, probably, you know, Jackson Koivan or Ben James, Michael Losasso, Preston Stout, Tommy Morrison, you know, they're going to be out. I think any of those guys with hard work can. Can get it done. I can't. I can't just say what, you know, I can't just, you know, you know, Mason Howe's incredible.
- [41:51]
David
Oh, you're gonna you're gonna go, you're gonna lame, all 10 of them.
- [41:54]
Nathan Smith
Forget it.
- [41:54]
David
Forget about it. Okay, you can stop right now. You know, you know, golf can feel like an individual sport. I mean, it is individual sport where your identity gets totally tied up in whatever score you had. How have you made sure that your self worth isn't defined by the number on the card or let's say, the results that you might have in a particular year?
- [42:12]
Nathan Smith
That's a great question, because I, as you get older, you see some guys that go into a little bit of a funk in life if they're not playing. Because I, I think they don't realize it, but golf was. They're everything. I think that it was. I think golf can sometimes become your self worth or you have to have things be important, whether family or work or different things. You have to have a lot of diversity in your life. And if you put too much emphasis on golf, that's eventually, it's like the golf isn't going to be. There's going to come a day where you're not going to play good golf, you're not able to play golf. I think that, you know, you need to focus on more what's important with golf, with the people you meet, friendships, and how you use the game to enjoy it or meet people for what it is. I can't, I can't tell you. I mean, is with you or I or anybody the game of golf? I mean, all the. I can't. I mean, you could probably. There's thousands of thousands of people that you've met through the game of golf that it's incredible these friendships that you wouldn't have otherwise made. And I think you need to keep the focus on that rather than, hey, I shot 72 today or I didn't play well. You know, I think it's just, you need to keep that in mind and you should, you should, everyone should realize that as they get older.
- [43:26]
David
I know that a lot of golfers, and including myself, we can almost remember every shot we've ever hit or where we headed or, you know, but I remember asking you, I said, what's your, what was your Walker cup record? And, and you told me you didn't.
- [43:42]
Nathan Smith
Know what it was.
- [43:43]
David
Yeah, that's hard for me to believe. And I've played with a couple of Ryder cup players this past weekend and they, they, after a little bit of thought, they could come up with their record in a hurry. Are you bsme or is that really the case?
- [43:56]
Nathan Smith
Listen, I mean, if you play on One team. And you know what I would say? I played on three in a row, and I would. You know, I could try to add it up now, but I don't. I don't have that number. That doesn't define me. I mean, what I know is. And I didn't go 0 and 7 for everybody. That's why they want to say it. I mean, it's probably. It's not like I. Hey, he doesn't want to tell me because he lost every match. I mean, it was probably around 500 or maybe, you know, one above that or something. But, you know, we won two out of three cups. That's the most important thing. And, yeah, you're also the first to.
- [44:31]
David
Tell me or anybody when you talk about your. Your master's experience, you know, that. That you missed the cut by one shot because you made a double bogey on the 18th hole. Now, how do you get over that kind of disappointment? You know, because those disappointments happen in sport, and they happen in business. When you have that loss, you know, what do you do to pick yourself.
- [44:55]
Nathan Smith
Back up in life? I remember when that happens, and a lot of people ask me that, and I'm like, well, I'm going to play next year. I'm going to play in it next year. And of course, it took me maybe five years to get back there, and a lot of people, they never get to play again. But I think, you know, just mentally, I was like, well, I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna go back. And I felt that then the next time, well, I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna make it next time. I'm gonna keep working hard. I can do this. I can do this. And I think that I didn't really. I think at the time I was. You know, you're a little naive, and you don't realize how forever something would be, but you're just like, well, I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna just stay after it. And, you know, I think sometimes the results, I mean, I feel that, you know, I don't know. I don't know what else I could have done. I tried. I thought I hit a good drive and, you know, bounces, you know, down the left and behind, all of a sudden you're. It happens. And it just. It is what it is, but I think you just have to keep. Keep going as hard as it is and different things. And I think that. I think it's funny with that. I mean, that. That maybe everybody could learn a lesson. If I would have, let's say, made parents and made the cut, I might not have won four mid amps. I might not have played in four Masters. I think that failure, if you want to call it that, on 18, drove me to the way it ended. To not make the cut like that drove me to get back there, and then maybe I missed another cut, and I'm like, I want another one. So if you have this massive success, I think that drove me to go win 4 mids and get chances and. And, you know, so it always. It's funny how things work out like that. So maybe your biggest failures can turn into sometimes your biggest success. And now people instead of say, hey, you missed the cut. Hey. Well, you won four mid amps.
- [46:38]
David
That's right. And played in four Masters, which most people would never would get the opportunity to do. Last question. What's one piece of advice you. You'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?
- [46:50]
Nathan Smith
I think listen and engage your people. I think that. And that's something that you've been incredible on. I think that. I think the way to uplift people is listen to them, make them feel important, and put them in situations to succeed. And I just think you need to. You can't be standoffish. You need to engage with people as a leader, and I think that's how you get the best results.
- [47:14]
David
Before I let you off the hook, one more last question. You know, you listened and engaged your team, and you win the Walker cup this year. You're going to Lahinch in Ireland in a couple years. Nathan, are you going to feel any pressure or now you just got it greased?
- [47:32]
Nathan Smith
Well, I can't quite think about that now because we just got over it, but we'll get back to it. I'm sure when there's 25,000 people over there, we'll be feeling the pressure, but that'll be. I think you're going to have a mini, you know, Ryder cup atmosphere over there, but there's always pressure. But I feel right now you're playing with a little bit of house money. But there'll definitely be pressure.
- [47:53]
David
No doubt. That's right.
- [47:54]
Nathan Smith
Yeah.
- [47:54]
David
Don't tell your next team you're playing with house money.
- [47:57]
Nathan Smith
That's right. That's right.
- [47:58]
David
Well, they'll listen to this podcast and you're going to be in trouble.
- [48:01]
Nathan Smith
Oh, yeah, that's. That's a great point.
- [48:04]
David
Well, one thing about you, Nathan, is you are not standoffish. You are always engaged. You're Always, you treat everybody with respect. And, you know, and I just hacked the ball around a little bit. One of my great joys is I got the opportunity to play with you. And the thing. When you became the Walker cup captain, of course, everyone knew you would because of your record and who you are, but I knew we couldn't have a better person leading the United States team because you know how to lift people up. And I hit the. When we played, I hit the ball all over hell. But the only thing you would ever say is, I've got you, partner. And you did. And for all of you out there, I nicknamed this guy Drano because we played at the dye preserve and they have these drains in the middle of the fairway, and we would play alternate shot or he would hit his drive and it would always be right there by the drain, and I'd have to mark it and move it over a driver's length away and. But, you know, you just are incredibly steady and amazing player, and he drains every putt. So. See, that's. That's the other thing about Drano. But Nathan, congratulations on your victory. Congratulations, more importantly on being just such a stand up, high quality, humble guy. And you are all of those things.
- [49:25]
Nathan Smith
Well, listen, you've been a great friend through the years, and I appreciate you talking to the guys back in December and hosted them. Like I said, you set the tone for that team and, you know, you're just the best. I love this, and thank you for having me.
- [49:36]
David
All right, buddy.
- [49:42]
Kula
Okay. David, you and Nathan Smith clearly are great friends. You've clearly played golf together a bunch, and I love the kind of, like, jovial nature that you have with him. I mean, I'm surprised the guy ended the interview with any self confidence at all. I mean, you talked about how bad a swing was, how he should look better because he loves working out. I mean, how long have you guys been friends?
- [50:02]
David
Oh, I don't know. It probably about eight years or so. But he's a great guy and, you know, he gives it and he can take it.
- [50:10]
Kula
I love it. I love it. Well, Nathan is the captain of the Walker cup team that just won the Walker cup recently. And before we get in, David, to some of the concepts and themes that you two talked about. I want to know if you agree with Nathan when he says that Cypress Point is the best looking golf club in the world.
- [50:30]
David
Well, it's the most beautiful golf course in the world, without question. The views of the ocean are just incredible. And if you want to take a look at the telecast of the Walker Cup. You know, look at the drone shots. I mean, it's just amazing. You know, I think if there's one course that you could play every day, it'd be hard to beat Cypress Point because it's a great walk. I mean, you can't. You can't imagine how beautiful it is. And it's a. It's a walk that you just kind of. You just want to take advantage of every single time. Never take. Never take it for granted. It's. It's. You're seeing God's work at work. It's amazing.
- [51:08]
Kula
Well, I'm so grateful, David, that I was able to tune into the Walker cup and see the views of Cypress Point, because obviously, I've heard about it being a golfer, and it's rare that you would ever get the chance to. To be on that property. So it's. It looked insane on the. The coverage of the Walker cup. And so I can only imagine what it's like to be there and be in Nathan Smith's shoes and coach the US Team to victory, which, of course, he did. And I love David. In the episode, you. You ask him about what it's like to manage exceptional talent. So, for those that don't know, the Walker cup captain basically gets to pick the best amateur golfers in the country to represent the country as they go up against Great Britain and Ireland. And these are unbelievably talented golfers, leaders, and individuals. And when you asked him that question, David, what it's like to manage exceptional talent, he says, well, you can't muzzle a racehorse. And I just love that. So he kind of says, you know, I just. I just let them do what they need to do to be great. I'm so curious how you think about managing exceptional talent. And if you two share that same philosophy, I.
- [52:16]
David
First of all, I think you need to tell the racehorse that, you know, he's a racehorse or she's a racehorse. You know, let them know how much you believe in them. Let them know that, you know, they had the capability. Let them know that, you know, they can deliver the results. And then, you know, the racehorses, they know how to get to the finish line. You don't want to micromanage them. You want to. You want to let them go. And at the same time, I think you kind of want to find a way to raise the bar just a little bit, you know, let them know that, you know, you know that they're capable of doing more than just what most people do, you know, that they're capable of taking it to a whole different level. And I think the racehorses love running a faster race. And I think as the coach, you kind of need to be that jockey which, you know, when it's time to win the race, they kind of, you give the, give the pat on the butt to that horse, to the go, let's go. And so you kind of, kind of give them that little extra, extra push to take it to the highest level.
- [53:21]
Kula
Does that same sort of mindset and paradigm apply when you're coaching your team in a business as well?
- [53:27]
David
Yeah, I think so. I think so. First of all, you want to build an A team. You know, I always believed in the A team mentality. You know, you want to have people know they're on the A team. They got to be A players and you let them know they're the A team. And A teams don't underperform. A teams exceed expectations. That's just what we do. And you kind of just kind of carry yourself that way.
- [53:53]
Kula
That speaks to kind of another one of these concepts that you and Nathan talked about quite a bit in the episode It's All About. You talked a lot about setting the tone for the team as the captain or as the coach. And David, I love what you said. You know, you have to remind the race force that they are actually a racehorse. What else would you say to leaders who are kind of stepping into maybe a new role as a coach or a manager and they're looking to really set the tone for the rest of their team?
- [54:19]
David
I think you have to really understand that you cast a shadow. People are looking at you as the leader. They're watching what you do and they're going to basically emulate what you do. People do follow the leader. And Nathan Smith is the perfect captain because A, he has demonstrated over time that he knows what it takes to win. This is a guy who won four mid amps and played in the Masters four years, so. So he obviously is someone who is, is competent at what he does and he knows the game. So, you know, he has that credibility and I think leaders need to have that credibility. He is the most positive person in the world. I mean, he believes that, you know, being positive lifts people up. Being negative brings people down. So he casts a positive shadow. When you're building a team, you know, positivity lifts the team, lifts the organization, and he demonstrates that in spades. When you have tough times when maybe somebody loses that you didn't expect to lose, you can't panic. You gotta be Steady. You gotta cast a shadow of belief that we're gonna prevail and that we've got what it takes. And you can't walk around and look like you're a loser. You want to look like you're a winner at all times and act like you're a winner at all times. These are just some of the things that he does that. That sets the right tone for what I think is any team.
- [56:00]
Kula
It's crazy to think about how impactful those little things really are. Like Nathan talks about in the interview, Great Britain and Ireland were inching back in a match or maybe in the overall points, and he said, I didn't get tense. I didn't get nervous. I didn't sulk in a quiet corner by myself. I made myself known. I made my energy known. I kept hyping the guys up. I kept clapping. You know, I'm not acting like we're losing. And that mindset is so powerful. It doesn't maybe sound like it would be, but it's crazy what that does to the energy with a team.
- [56:35]
David
You know, what was interesting about that comment is that he made himself do it. I mean, he might have been feeling a little negative underneath. He might have been feeling a little down that you had that happen, but he wasn't going to show it. He was going to show his belief. There's a saying that you become what you think you are. If you act like a winner, you're going to be a leader. You know, one of my mantras that I always had was be the leader, act like the leader. And that meant everybody in the organization, not just me, because everybody can lead.
- [57:07]
Kula
Absolutely. He talks about being the captain of the Walker cup team as the most pressure he's ever been under in his entire life. And he's quite an accomplished businessman as well. So, I mean, I can't imagine the level of that pressure. But to your point, David, he says, you know, you can't show that you're sweating it ever, because people are looking at you. He said, winning has a thousand fathers. Losing is an orphan. And I just love that saying. I think it carries so much weight, and it makes me want to be more of a winner. And also it makes me want to just embody that mindset, even maybe if I am sweating it or if our team is losing.
- [57:50]
David
Nathan was in a spotlight that he's never been in before. You know, think about it. You're the captain of the United States of America team. Everybody in the world of golf is watching, and a lot of People outside of the world of golf are tuning in and watching. He's never really had that kind of visibility before. And when you get in these spots where you have pressure that is unlike anything you've ever had before, that's where you really see the metal of the person. And what we really saw with Nathan Smith is the fact that he's got character. You know, I had the good fortune of being out at Cypress Park Point this past weekend, and everybody was talking about how much they love that guy, and that's because he carries himself with such confidence and he's so competent and he's everything that you would ever expect in any captain and in any leader. So I. I would follow him. I'm. I'm very happy to have him as a partner, by the way, because even though I joke about his golf swing, it's damn good. I wish I had it.
- [59:00]
Kula
Do you really call him Drano?
- [59:01]
David
I mean, if you call him, he does drains every putt and he hits everything right down the middle of the fairway where the drain might happen to be.
- [59:08]
Kula
I love it. I love it. I love it. Well, David, excellent interview. Per usual for golf fans and for non golf fans, there's just so much about the way that Nathan has led this Walker cup team that is applicable to your leadership, your work, and your life. So I personally loved this as a golf fan myself, and I think everyone else is going to love it, too. So thank you so much and thank you for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead. We'll see you back here next week.