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#267: Michael Meldman, Founder and Chairman of Discovery Land Company – Be one of one in your category
01:02:33
Listen to this leadership podcast with Michael Meldman, Founder and Chairman of Discovery Land Company, and learn how to make your brand stand out.
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- [00:00]
A
Hello, everybody and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead. Today we've got a fun one. We've got Michael Meldman on the show. He is the founder and chairman of Discoveryland Company, the co founder of Casamigos Tequila, and part owner of the Las Vegas Raiders. Three things I love very golf, tequila and football. In this episode, he and David are going to dive into some of the things that have made him such a successful raider brand builder. And at the end of the episode, David and I are going to break down some of those key learnings so that you walk away from this episode with something really tangible that you can apply to your leadership, to your life and to your work. You're also going to really love Michael's stories about creating a tequila brand with George Clooney. It's a lot of fun. I think you're going to love this episode. Here we go.
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B
What's your favorite George Clooney Casamiga story?
- [00:50]
C
I probably can't tell it.
- [00:59]
B
You know. So Mike, here you are. You're the founder and chairman of Discoveryland Company, the co founder of Casamigas Tequila and part owner of the Las Vegas Raiders. And yet what I'm curious to know is the story behind why you just overhauled your entire closet.
- [01:19]
C
Well, I overhauled my entire closet to change my wardrobe from Casamigos to the Raiders. As you can see, I'm a branding guy so I'm always wearing a project shirt with either the Raiders or Cosamigos. We just finally finalized our, we had an earn out and a buyout on Casamigos. So that part of my life is over. We're going to start a vodka organic vodka company and a non alcoholic beer. So we're going to start leaning toward wellness and alcohol and non alcohol. And so it's kind of funny because my wardrobe, my Casamigos wardrobe had a lot of pink in it. And when I started the hills and redid and bought the dune deck in the Hamptons, I kind of wore pink as a joke because, you know, everyone on the east coast is so preppy and I'm a, you know, west coast guy. I'm a jeans T shirt, flip flop type of guy. So I'd wear pink kind of as a, you know, joke to the east coast and preppy guy and preppies. And it stuck. It stuck with me for, you know, 10 years and my whole whole wardrobe was pink and now it's black and silver and white. So I don't know if it's an upgrade or not, but I don't know.
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B
You know, pink to black, man, you got it. You got it. You can kick some even more ass.
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C
You know, I still like pink, but I got to go with the silver and black.
- [03:05]
B
Well, speaking of the silver and black in the Raiders, you know, what drew you into the NFL?
- [03:10]
C
I've always been a football fan. I played football as a kid. My older boys played football. Probably the highlight of my life was their high school football and lacrosse experience. And now I have a 12 year old who's a very good football player. So we've always been into sports. We've always been into Bay Area sports because my older boys were born in the Bay Area. And so we're always, you know, basically Niner and Raider fans and Warrior fans and Giants fans. And so Mark Davis has been a friend of mine for a long time, and the opportunity came up, and so me and one of my partners decided to jump in. And as you know, Tom Brady was already part of the ownership team, and Tom and I are very close and go back for a long time. So we felt we put a ownership team together with Mark Davis that could really help build the business, grow the revenues, and our goal is to make the Raiders the number one franchise, value the world.
- [04:28]
B
Well, you've certainly got an iconic franchise, and it'll be great to watch what you do to bring them back and get them back to where they. Where they rightfully deserve. Although I'm. I have to admit, I'm a big Kansas City Chiefs fan, so I'm not rooting for you. Totally.
- [04:41]
C
Look, I like all the team, all the teams, but obviously I have to root for. For the Raiders, But I'm a fan, and that's probably the biggest reason why I did it. And it was also great diversification for me and my family since we're very long on real estate.
- [04:58]
B
Well, speaking of real estate, you have built what I think is the greatest real estate brand in the world with Discovery. And tell us all that Discovery is today.
- [05:09]
C
So the way I describe Discovery is it's a private resort community. Most people look at it like as just a golf community, but it's really a lifestyle community. And the irony of the whole, the whole concept of Discovery is when I started the company, I never golfed a day in my life, and I was never a member of a country club.
- [05:38]
B
Wow.
- [05:38]
C
So, yeah, and so when you go play one of my courses, there's a lot more on the golf course, the golf, I blast rock and roll on the driving range. We have comfort stations so you could get, you know, Food and treats. And I try to make it feel like, you know, you're a kid, you're a kid again, and you could get whatever you want, you know, and make you feel nostalgic about things you. You had as a kid by the type of candy we have and, you know, things like that. I just wanted to make golf fun for me. So I wanted things on the course at least would make me happy, because at the time, golf wasn't making me happy. You know, you're allowed to play in a T shirt, playing shorts, no shirt, you know, whatever you feel comfortable. You know, I wasn't looking at being a disruptor. That was not my intent or even a thought. But I built my whole company around being with my family and my kids. At the time, Hunter and will were probably 5 and 7, and my first course I did was Estancia in Scottsdale, which I still think is one of the great classic golf courses. And I would try to get them to play golf, and they would, like, go, okay. And I'd sit there and try to put them in a collared shirt, and they wouldn't want to wear a collared shirt. So we'd literally be sitting there in the pro shop, put on a collared shirt. I don't want to. And we're fighting, and I'm, like, going, well, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You know, we're here to have fun and to, you know, be together. And since I didn't grow up golfing, I was like, fine, don't wear a collared shirt. Let's go. And. And we went, you know, shorts and a T shirt and played. And they didn't really play at that age. They just wanted to throw golf balls off tee boxes, which happened to be, in this case, at Estancia, like, in these beautiful rock outcroppings. And so for them, the golf course was just a fun place for them. And the whole comfort station situation came out of that because. Because I wanted to keep them on the golf course longer than throwing golf balls off one hole. And so I put those red and white igloo coolers on each tee box. So they'd go to a tee box, throw the golf balls, run to the next tee box, grab a coke and a candy bar and probably do that for three or four holes. And then they had a sugar rush and we're done. But the point was, I wanted to make golf fun for them. And that's where kind of the casualness. And I don't want to say Lack of rules. Because everyone says there's no rules at Discovery clubs. There are. And it's basically, you know, respect.
- [08:40]
B
Yeah. And having been, you know, blessed enough to be able to enjoy that experience, you tell it exactly the way how it is. You. You go out there. I was at Troubadour recently outside of Nashville, listen to the country music, which I love. You have the comfort stations. You can play a fivesome or a six some. You keep moving, you know, you respect everybody that's there. But it's a hell of a. Hell of a. Hell of an experience and a different experience and one that makes golf truly fun. So you delivered in spades. How does the business model work, Mike?
- [09:10]
C
You know, what the golfers want is they want to go out whenever they want to go out, they don't want to have to worry about. And so we try to keep our projects low density and the membership count low. So you always have access to the course. And so the golf is always subsidized by us for. Until sell out. And then once it's sold out, we run it to break even. So we don't use the golf course to make money. We use it to sell the real estate, and that's where the money is in our business. And so the golf courses really help sell the real estate for much higher premium pricing and much faster absorption.
- [10:03]
B
So when you think about Discovery, I think of it, you describe yourself as a brand builder, and you are. Discovery is a tremendous brand. And what do you think? Or if you could kind of summarize the principles that you've used at Discovery for other people that are wanting to build a brand, what do you think is key?
- [10:28]
C
There are a lot of things, especially for Discovery, but I'd say the key is consistency. We always strive to be the best of the best wherever we are. So consistency is important, but also learning from every project and making the next project better is important. So we're always striving for excellence. I think we're always getting better. And one of the most rewarding things is that we have a whole group of individuals who started working for me right out of high school or right out of college and have never worked for anyone else. So their DNA is Discovery. And so everyone just thrives to make it better and better. And it's really fun to see because they're really just perpetuating my vision and they're really good at it.
- [11:31]
B
You know, I had the. The great time of playing with Cy Anthony and. And J.J. dudham, and recently in a golf tournament, both of these guys work for you. And I knew I had this podcast coming up and I said, what? What do you think it is that, you know, really distinguishes Mike as a leader? And he says, listen, this guy looks at somebody, sees somebody and says, this is somebody we need to hire. They talked about your eye for talent. When you look at talent, what do you look for as that intangible or the it factor? Because that's what they said you had that you'd say, hey, look, I don't know what this guy's doing right now, but he needs to work for us someday. And sooner or later, you end up landing that person.
- [12:13]
C
Yeah, well, we want to be kind of the employer of choice for, you know, for anybody. And we get good people to begin with. And I see good people because we have really, really good growth opportunities. We've had valets parking cars turn into operational leaders, and we've had outdoor pursuit. People who were fishing guides turn into general managers of clubs or developers of, you know, one of our projects. So there's a lot of growth. You know, I don't say it's necessarily eyeing talent, but I think it's really nurturing and help, you know, creating talent. Because what we do is so special and different than what anyone else does. You know, you can't learn this at the Four Seasons, you know, training schedule or meetings or training manual. And so it takes a lot of my time and a lot of personal energy to invest in these people. And JJ is probably one of the greatest examples of all time. I mean, JJ is a big golfer, fun on the golf course, just like Si. I mean, they're kind of similar and they've really, you know, Si's been with me 10 years, JJ's been with me 20 years. And they've grown into, you know, people who have real stature and can, you know, can really articulate what discovery's about. And JJ's JJ, right? I mean, JJ just has a stature and personality all to himself, which, you know, people love. And so, you know, I think I just help nurture and energize people.
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B
That's great. And we're going to talk more about discovery in a bit. But I'm curious, you know, what's the story from your childhood, Mike, that shaped the kind of leader you are today?
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C
I grew up in Milwaukee, a very happy middle class lifestyle. Two sisters, uncles and aunts and cousins. We'd all go to grandma's and grandpa's house every Sunday for dinner. So it was a very kind of nice, traditional, you know, happy Lifestyle. And my dad and my grandfather taught me, you know, integrity, character, to follow the rules and just be the best person you can. And probably the most meaningful story from my childhood that I remember is that my dad was our lowly coach. And we were playing. Back then, it was neighborhoods, right? We were playing our neighborhood team and it happened to be the championship game for our softball. It was even before Little League. And there's this kid I remember who probably wasn't the best athlete or baseball player on the team. It was something like bases loaded, we were down by one, and my dad realized that Randy didn't get to play. So he substituted Randy in for whoever was, you know, batting, who was probably a cleanup hitter or something. Because my dad said, we gotta play by the rules. Everyone's gotta play. Randy hasn't played, so he put him in. He struck out. We lost, you know, we lost the championship. The other team was obviously celebrating. My dad, you know, came to us and said, look, we could hold our heads high. We did the right thing. We played, you know, we played by the rules. They didn't. They didn't play all their kids, but we did. So you kids are really the winners. And so, yeah, and that just stuck with me. I was always a good athlete and always, you know, in my peer group, the best athlete and, you know, someone, like, missed a shot in basketball, I would, like, scream at him and yell at him. And I had a. I probably did that when I started playing pickleball recently, too. But that just kind of changed my perspective on everything, right? Just always do the right thing, be a good sport. Both my father and my grandfather were just, you know, two of the most well grounded people I've, you know, I've ever met.
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B
You know, and as I understand it, after finishing college at Stanford, you went to be a blackjack dealer in Tahoe. What did that experience teach you?
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C
Yeah, well, it taught me how to count to 21.
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B
That was not a problem if you went to Stanford.
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C
Yeah, it wasn't really that big of a problem. But I went down blackjack with three buddies of mine because I was supposed to go to law school. And I bombed the LSATs, and so I didn't go to law school. And so my buddies who were going to Tahoe said, let's go, and I went. And, you know, we rented a cabin, like in Camp Richardson outside of South Lake, and we dealt at Harrah's, and our shift was like midnight to 8. So I met a guy at the blackjack table who asked me if I want to make as much money as I wanted and work as little as I wanted. And I'm like, yeah, who does? You know, who wouldn't? So he was starting a commercial real estate company in San Jose, California. I went and did that, and I had literally no training. He stuck me out in Fremont, said, put up signs and meet the farmers. It was all farmland. So I spent the first year literally just putting up signs, meeting the farmers, and I did a bunch of deals. So I had a knack for making deals. So that was kind of the beginning of it.
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B
And when you say knack for making deals, what does that mean?
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C
I mean, well, my first year, I did about 60 deals, and I made a decent amount of money probably from my age and first year out of college, probably more than any engineer, anyone who had a real job. And I would lease, like, a commercially zoned house from some family in, like, Grass Valley, which is kind of a retirement community in Northern California, to a termite company. And I'd negotiate the lease and the termite. I'll never forget this. The termite company owner said, what's Estoppel? And I said, hold on. And we didn't have cell phones or anything back then, so I'd have to go find the phone, call my manager, ask him what Estoppa was. He would tell me. I'd explain it to the termite guy. He would say, okay, and sign the lease. I take the signed lease back to my office, and I still didn't know what Estoppa was.
- [19:25]
B
I was gonna have to ask you to explain it to me.
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C
Yeah, I still don't know what it is, but I was just able to, I guess, communicate, make people feel, you know, comfortable and that, you know, I was, you know, honest and truthful.
- [19:43]
A
Hello, friends. I hope you're loving this conversation with David and Michael Meldman. Be sure you stay tuned to the debrief. David and I are going to give you some practical takeaways based on the conversation that he's having with Mike. So stay tuned to the very end of the episode and don't miss the debrief.
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B
What was your first Discovery property, and what was the biggest lesson you carried forward from that experience?
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C
Well, the first Discovery property was Estancia, and that's a golf course community in Arizona. And so before I got into Estancia, I spent probably maybe 18 years processing a property in Portola Valley, California, which is right outside of Stanford and right where. Right where I live. So it was great, right? I was doing this big project in my Backyard. And what I didn't know is the property, we bought it from Asadi Prince. The property had every environmental constraint you could ever imagine. The San Andreas fault ran through, had a big hillside that had a lot of mudslides mapped. It had fauna and flora going through it. That was sacred. And so all the people were fighting me because everyone fights developers. And so the people fighting me were educated because the people fighting me on the biology were biology professors at Stanford. And even my friends wouldn't support me because they're like, no, they're like, you're ruining the environment. I go, we're not. And so it literally taught me how to develop through the environment. Right. And so, you know, like putting the roads along the contours of the topography. Well, it makes sense because you're not. You're not grading. You're just placing them down where they naturally belong. You're not mass grading the site and then spending all this money on landscaping. And so, you know, taught me to keep the vegetation, to keep the site as natural as you can, and just. Just incorporate the buildings into the nature. And so that's kind of what it. What I did. And so I basically got a PhD in, you know, planning, you know, environmental planning by spending 18 years doing that. And so when I went to Arizona to do estancia, it was. There's a landmark called Pinnacle Peak in Scottsdale, and it's one of the famous. It's one of the two mountains there. And there's Pinnacle Peak restaurant. And they do shootouts and robberies and, you know, cowboy, Western, Western stuff there. It was zoned for 900 units or a resort like the Phoenician. The Phoenician was on Camelback Mountain. It just opened. It was beautiful and everyone loved it. However, the owner and developer of the resort got arrested and went to jail as part of the SNL crisis back then. So when they told me I could put a Phoenician on the property and use True north as the golf course, I didn't quite think it was a good idea because I go, the last guy who did it ended up in jail. So, you know, I don't want to really pursue that route. So it had a density credit of like taking the 2,000 hotel rooms that would have completely desecrated the site. It had a density transfer to 900 residential units, and 900 residential units would have ruined the site. And this was probably one of the most beautiful sites in Arizona. It had Pinnacle Peak, it had rock outcroppings, it had beautiful trees. And vegetation. So what we did is I got Tom Fazio, and this is how I met Fazio. And the reason I called Tom, and you got to remember, I didn't golf at this time. Know anything about golf or country clubs, is because all the most expensive golf clubs in the west were Tom Fazio courses. There's the Vintage Club, which is kind of the granddaddy of a mall. There is the Quarry, and there's Maroon Creek. And so they were the most expensive memberships on the west coast. I said, well, sounds like Tom Fazio's our guy, called Tom, hired him, and we built the course. Right. I don't think. I think we moved less than 300,000 cubic yards of dirt, which a lot of it was all on one hole, just building a hole up with rocks. So it's a pretty natural sight and it's beautiful. But I wouldn't have known how to do that without the Portola Valley experience. And. And what we did is we'd box up the trees and move them, put in the golf, and then we'd re veg, take those trees and replant them. And so when we opened the golf course, it looked like it's been there for a thousand years. And you could barely see the roads because they were landscaped and going against the contours. So the 18 years of hell and Patrol Valley ended up being something that really I leaned on and taught me. I was able to go to these places and work with these environmentalists because I was always reducing density instead of looking for more. The project ended up, instead of with 900 units, with 253 units.
- [25:45]
B
And you have this perception of being the developer that not you, you're yourself, but the. The industry, you come in, rape the land, take advantage of things, whatever, you know, but you do exactly the opposite of that. And, you know, I know when you went into Bakers Bay and in the Bahamas, it was very controversial. In fact, you.
- [26:04]
C
You.
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B
You faced a lot of resistances first. And people literally had T shirts, I'm told, that said f. Mike Meldman. You know, how did you go about winning the community over?
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C
Well, see, whenever there's people against us, it always seems like it's a big community that's fighting us, but it never really is. It's literally. In this case, it might have been five people, and they're just. They just. Not that they scream the loudest, but that's who people want to listen to. So here we are. We just had the 20th anniversary of Bakers Bay. The reefs didn't die. They're healthy as can be. And we suffered a hurricane about five or seven years ago called Dorian. And Dorian destroyed Bakers Bay. And it destroyed the rest of the island. It destroyed the neighboring islands, and the neighboring islands are where our employees lived, also on our island. And so everything got destroyed. I mean, it was horrific. I mean, when I heard about the news, it literally knocked me to the ground. I mean, I just went down, sat, you know, to my knees and sat on the ground and, you know, took a few breaths. I mean, it really knocked. You know, it was like being punched in the stomach. And so, you know, I knew that I had to be the leader, and I knew I had to put on a brave face. And so what I did is I started communicating with the membership every day. I would send out an email to everyone daily for probably 60 days till everything calmed down a bit, just telling them what's going on on the island, who we had there, what we're doing. And we actually rebuilt it. And it was a big fight with the Bahamian government because this hurricane didn't hit anywhere but us. And so when I went to Nassau to meet with the prime minister and the cabinet, they didn't. I mean, the prime minister was actually great and really helpful, but he wanted me there to show you the lack of support he was getting, you know, from the rest of the cabinet, because they're all from Nassau. It didn't even rain in Nassau. And so I had to convince them that we had to build, you know, 20 years of construction in two months. And then they finally let us, you know, we. They relieved us from vat. They let us bring in foreign labor. We brought up a whole bunch of our crew from Mexico to rebuild it. We brought in ships for them to live on, and we actually rebuilt it in two years, which was phenomenal and great. And for our. A lot of the members took employees in, and even to this day, our foundation is building houses in Marsh harbor.
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B
For.
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C
You know, who lost their homes in the hurricane.
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B
Oh, that's. That. That's. That is so great. You know, El Dorado is another one of your discovery properties. And. And I think that's where Casamigos was. Tequila was born. What's the story of you, George Clooney and Randy Gerber, who's Cindy Crawford's husband. How did you guys come up with that idea? How did that happen?
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C
So we'd live together at my house. They were about three, four lots down, and they built a big compound with two houses. Okay. And they called the house Casamigos. So we were a lot younger in those days, and we were drinking a lot more. And we were drinking like Claus Azul. We liked that. And we thought it was a little sweet. And we were drinking 1942, we thought it was a little bitter. And we go, I think we can come up with something better. And so we came up with this tequila that was. If you do a side by side analysis, we always win because, like, 42 is a great tequila, but it's bitter. But you don't know how bitter it is unless you taste it. Compared to Casamigos and Clazy, Azil is a great tequila because we're drinking both, but it's a little sweet. And if you drink it next to Casamigos, it's real sweet. So we kind of tried to find something right in between. And we didn't really do it to sell it. We did it for ourselves. We figured we'd sell a lot at Discovery Properties, we'd sell a lot at Randy's Bars, and we felt George would just drink a lot. So, you know, so we would be. We'd be good. And so everybody just liked it so much. We went to Southern Wine and Spirits and we said, can we, you know, will you take this for us? And they tried the repo, and they go, yeah, we love it, it's great. We want it, but you need a blanco. And I remember saying, well, we drink the repo, we don't drink a blanco. And Larry Rubo from Southern Wine spirits goes, well, 85% of the market's blanco. I go, well, we'll do a blanco then. And we launched. And we said to them at the launch, we go, so how many? What would be a good year? And they go, if you could do 24,000 cases your first year, it'll be a huge success. So we made 24,000 cases. George, Randy and I each were third or third or third partners. It cost us a million eight, which is $600,000 each, and sold out that first. Actually, first two days. And we never had to put another dime in it. And we sold it for a billion dollars in four years.
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B
That's a nice story. You know, looking back, what was the single best strategic decision you made that unlocked that kind of value? I mean, that's.
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C
Well, first of all, the three of us have different. Had completely different. So it was, you know, three good friends, you know, hanging out together, which as you get older, you don't see your friends as much. So that was fun. But the real reason Casamigos did well was because it was good tequila. So if it wasn't good tequila, it wouldn't matter who was behind it. And so the story, the kind of, the organic story behind it, how, you know, three friends went and did it, was a good story, and it followed up with being a good tequila. And so, you know, we knew we had a winner before we launched because, you know, we sampled it with so many people and had parties. We had a. Which became famous big Halloween parties at my house and served it and everyone, you know, so you could tell, you know, we had pretty good sample audience and there's no doubt it wouldn't work in our minds.
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B
I have to ask you, I guess, what's your favorite George Clooney Casamiga story?
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C
I probably can't tell it. All right.
- [33:40]
B
But you hang with all these CEOs, celebrities, athletes, and people can be guarded. I mean, it's just. There's no question about that, especially when you're of that ilk. How do you break through the wall and earn trust with. With. With people who are or are naturally guarded? And, you know, how do you and your whole. Your communities are filled with those people?
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C
Yeah, well, like with George, we're friends. And so like in Casamigos, like, Randy and I didn't ever think it was a celebrity tequila. You know, we thought it was our tequila, me, George and, you know, and Randy's, who were just friends doing something. Now, fortunately, George is a big celebrity, so him wearing, his attitude was, well, if the paparazzi is going to follow me, I'm going to wear a Casamigos T shirt and they're going to photograph me in that, which was obviously a big help at Discovery. I think I'm lucky because I get people mostly on their good days because if they're not happy at their Discovery property, they probably wouldn't have bought at Discovery because they're probably not the type of. Type of person who could relax and have fun. And I think one great thing about Discovery is people who are a type personalities who work really hard, who build their businesses, who are. They usually have one regret, and that one regret is they haven't spent enough time with their family. And so Discovery gives them that time with their family. Because no matter who you are and where your kids are located, let's say you have a house at El Dorado, it's almost certain that everyone in your family is going to show up for Christmas at El Dorado. So it's a good gathering point and it's a good way for people you know, who spend time, you know, working away from their family to be with.
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B
Their family, you know, for you personally, you know, and you look at your own leadership and you're at the top, top of your game. Everything just keeps moving in the right direction. What are some of the things that you may be doing to level up your own leadership? How are you trying to sharpen your own axe right now?
- [36:05]
C
Like I said, I learned from every project because, you know, we're not just the developer, we're the brand. You know, we're the. We design them, we operate them, we do every aspect of it. So I'm always learning. I've never, ever, like, gone complacent on anything. We're always, you know, pushing ourselves to be, you know, to be better. And so I think that is infectious. And it, you know, other people see it and I truly lead by example. You know, I never really consider myself and thought about myself as a great leader. I just think of myself, someone, you know, doing what I love, continuing to do what I love, and have good people with me, steering the ship in the right direction. And we go to these new communities or countries or regions of the world. And so it keeps my interests, right? When you go to Dubai and meet new people or you go to Tuscany or Portugal, and there's great people around the world, and so it keeps me truly motivated just to keep going and getting better and better.
- [37:30]
B
You know, you've grown so much. You have so many properties now. How has your leadership had to evolve as you've scaled? Or do you think you're basically the same guy doing it just on a bigger level?
- [37:43]
C
I'm pretty much the same guy doing it on a different level. I think I've evolved a lot over the last 30 years, which I'm proud of, but I've also brought in a great executive team. It's funny because when I started out in real estate, I was at that startup company, and then I ended up going to Cushman and Wakefield, and Cushman Wakefield was the gold standard back then, and it still is today. So Brett, who's Bret White, who is our CEO who came from cbr, and Cushman Wakefield, you know, has made my life so much easier and better and a lot of. I don't consider myself a control freak, and I don't really think I am, but I am in a lot of details. And I mean, Brett's taken so much off my plate. I remember one of my financial partners going, okay, what's the over under on Brett? You know, 60 days before you get rid of him because you can't not stand him, but just can't stand the fact that, you know, you're giving up so much control to one person. And I go, it's the best thing ever happened to me. You know, there's no. There's no over under here. It's just over. And, you know, keep bread as long as we can.
- [39:03]
B
Yeah, that's great. You know, and you and I both share something in common. We both love golf. And I understand you didn't really start playing golf until you were in your 50s. What does that journey show about the way you take on challenges? Because there's no game that's more challenging than golf.
- [39:21]
C
Yeah. And there's the people who've been around me since I started, like, at the beginning, they never, ever thought I'd make it to where I am today. I mean, I was the worst golfer ever. And, you know, and I'm an athletic guy and I'm strong, and I just tried to muscle it, which isn't obviously the way to go. And I also had so many different teachers, because anywhere I'd go, whether you're an assistant pro, pro, director of golf, they wanted to be the guy to give me the one tip that made me a good golfer. And I always said I'm too cerebral and muscle bound for, you know, for the game. Cause I actually listen to people and understand things most of the time. And so everyone gave me different thoughts. So I'd have so many thoughts going through my head all the time that I. I couldn't do anything. And then I finally started working with Hank Haney back in the, you know, when he did the Charles Barkley thing. And everyone would come up to him, who's the worst golfer you ever taught? And everyone's expecting him, say, Charles Barkley. And he'd go, Mike Meldman, for sure. Not even close. And then Hank helped me. And then, as you know, I went to Matt Killen, who's not only a great teacher, a great coach, a great person, a great friend to both of us. And he taught me not just how to, like, hit a golf ball, but he taught me how to play golf, which is a lot different. And next week, I'm heading to Scotland for the Dunhill cup, and I'll play with, like, you know, scratch golfers or plus two. And I'm a, you know, fairly solid nine. And so he'll, you know, the guy will. Will be 180 yards away. He'll take, you know, the scratch golfer will take a six iron, which is this 180 yard shot, hit it in the air, blows three holes away, right. Cause of the Scottish winds and weather. And I take a finesse 5 rescue club right down the middle to the middle of the green, you know, low, straight and there. And so he taught me, and I'm sure he did this with you, not just how to hit a golf ball, but how to actually strategically play the game.
- [41:54]
B
It sounds like you're doing it better than me. I needed a little bit more of that.
- [41:58]
C
I probably hog killing too much.
- [42:02]
B
Well, basically what you're saying with golf is you use the same learning mentality you've had as you've grown your business.
- [42:09]
C
Yeah, you gotta be disciplined, you gotta be patient and you gotta be persistent. But if you found people. In the early days when I started, no one thought I'd continue with the game. And they asked me, how did you keep playing? And I go, well, I see all these big old fat people hitting the ball. Good. Why can't I?
- [42:38]
B
Mike, it's been so much fun and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this?
- [42:43]
C
Sure.
- [42:43]
B
What three words best describe you?
- [42:46]
C
Intuitive. We talked about patience and persistence. We talked about this too. Loyalty. Loyal. Being loyal.
- [42:53]
B
If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?
- [42:57]
C
Thomas Jefferson.
- [42:58]
B
Who would play you in a movie?
- [43:00]
C
George Flinney. If you're Adam or Adam Sandler.
- [43:06]
B
Good combo. You're routing a three day trip with friends across multiple discovery properties. Where are you going and what essential activities are on the itinerary?
- [43:18]
C
I'd probably go skiing at Yellowstone, golfing at El Dorado, and I'd be going surfing, golfing Padel and hanging out at Costa Terra, which is in Portugal.
- [43:34]
B
I've heard that place is amazing. Well, they're all amazing. You know, what's something about owning an NFL team that caught you by surprise? Something that you didn't expect.
- [43:45]
C
So I love football. I love going to games with my kids now as an owner and being we're an active, I'm part of the active ownership group. It's taking the fun out of the game and it's so stressful.
- [44:02]
B
I love it. What's the one thing you do just.
- [44:06]
C
For you most relaxing time I have is. Well now Sundays I go to all the games, but you know, laying no longer relaxing. Yeah, but when I'm home watching football and not being at a Raider game, you know, I have five TVs in my main room, laying on the couch with my. My sons and just watching football.
- [44:27]
B
Besides your family, what's your most prized possession?
- [44:30]
C
Probably just the brand of discovery and what it means and what it means to people. And not just the members, but also the employees. Because we've changed a lot of employees lives. And our. Our members treat the employees like their family. And the employees feel like they're family. So I think that's something I'm as proud of as anything.
- [44:57]
B
If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?
- [45:00]
C
Grateful Dead, Classic rock.
- [45:02]
B
That's why you look better in the black than the pink.
- [45:05]
C
Exactly.
- [45:06]
B
I can't believe I have a pink sweater on today. It was totally unintentional. This is almost black, but it's close. You're out of the lightning round here. I just have a few more questions. I'll let you go. Mike, as you look ahead, what do you see as your unfinished business?
- [45:21]
C
Well, we're going to different regions of the world. So we're in Europe now, which I love. Like, we talked a little bit about Portugal. It's one of my favorite places. The country's great. It's safe, People are educated. The work ethic's great. I mean, it's an amazing country. And we're on the beach. We have different, you know, we have beginning, intermediate, advanced waves. I mean, they're just. The weather's perfect in the summer. You know, you got. Most places in Europe, it's hot. And our. Our golf course feels like it's air conditioned because you have the Atlantic breeze coming through all the time. The fish is great, the food is. I mean, it's just great. I love it. And I probably spend six weeks there in a row, which I don't spend anywhere else six weeks in a row. And so it's fun. So conquering Europe. And now we're in Scotland and we're in Tuscany, and we're soon to hopefully be in Spain. And then we're starting going big in the Middle East. And so I really like it when we go to areas and we're the one of one. Right. Like you go to Las Vegas and we did the Summit. Well, there's 100 golf courses at the Summit. And everyone said, your pricing won't work. This whole thing won't work. And I knew it would because I had a lot of friends in Las Vegas who lived in these beautiful houses and had beautiful views of the golf course, of the strip. But nobody was part of their community. So we built a community that had everything to draw those type of people. And they all moved into it. So now you really have a community where everyone else used to live just in their house on a lot. And not being part of the community, I like doing that. And you go to like Dubai. We're opening our course in November. Well, Dubai's got 11, maybe 8 to 11 million people circling through there. A lot of people live there. They have 10 golf courses, and they're not good golf courses. And, you know, once we open and they understand what a private, you know, real private golf course is, they're going to go crazy because, you know, there's shotguns and rounds. You can't even get on it, you know, get on a course. And even if it's a private course, they still let the public on. So it's just private by word, but not by definition by any means. So it's kind of. I like going to places where we're one of one. Introducing the concept to, like in Dubai. I think we're being every Middle Eastern country and I think Discovery Dunes, which is the name of the project in Dubai, is going to change luxury real estate in Dubai, which is the luxury rural state capital. Just like the summit changed hospitality in Vegas. And Vegas is the hospitality capital of the world. So we set our sights high and we do it. And that keeps me going.
- [48:48]
B
Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?
- [48:53]
C
I always say patience is probably my main word. I tell my kids that, I tell younger kids because everyone wants instant success. And it doesn't work that way. As you know, it takes hard work. It takes, if you're an entrepreneur, it takes vision and dedication to the vision. You can't be afraid to fail. You've got to just really stick to your goals and your objectives. And people seem to want too much instant gratification. Right. I want to become a AI billionaire. Right. Well, you gotta go do something to become an AI billionaire. Just doesn't happen. And so I tell my kids that a lot. I tell my young guys in the office, be patient. You know, you gotta be patient. You're not who you think you are right now, but you're gonna be that person. So just, you know, keep your head down, work hard, have fun and execute well.
- [49:58]
B
Mike, I have to tell you, I really enjoyed this conversation. I know how you know just how much you have going on. You just talked about you're going all the time. And the fact that you carve out this time with me really means a lot and I appreciate it. I was really Looking forward to this podcast because I wanted to get to know you better. And it's so, so clear to me why you've been so successful and why you will conquer the world.
- [50:22]
C
Well, thanks. You're. You're a good man. I was excited to do this as well.
- [50:31]
A
Okay. David, you've played some of the Discoveryland courses. I mean, what. When do you think about the brand experience beyond just the golf on these golf courses? I mean, is it really like what Michael says in the interview? The comfort stations with all the stuff, snacks, you wear whatever you want? It's about more than golf. What's it like?
- [50:48]
B
I think Michael actually understated it. I mean, the Discovery properties are incredible. I was at Troubadour. I. I played. I played golf there with my good buddy Jimmy Kirchstorfer and. And Matt Killen, who's the golf instructor for Michael. And, you know, it's just so much fun. I mean, you know, people are laid back. You got the music. There can be eight people playing, but if you've got two, they'll let you through. And everybody talks. And, you know, the camaraderie there is great. The comfort stations are fantastic. You can go in there and get ice cream. You know, you can get some tequila. You know, it's your. It's your choice. I mean, it's. It's great, but it's so, so different. And. And, you know, I played with Justin Thomas, and, you know, Justin's out there and his. His shorts and, you know, and T shirt, and we're listening to, you know, Eric Church. I mean, you know, just doesn't get any better than this. I mean, it's just a lot of fun now. You know, it's. It's. It's not the traditional golf, but, boy, I think it's what everybody loves about golf. It's friendship. It's fun. It's. It's just. It's really cool.
- [51:52]
A
I love the story that he told about how, you know, when he made the decision to not have a traditional golf dress code on his golf courses, because when he tried to get his kids to go play golf, they didn't want to wear collared shirts. And he says, isn't the point of this to have fun and be with each other? Like, if you don't want to wear a collared shirt, screw it. You don't have to.
- [52:10]
B
You know, isn't that. Isn't that what entrepreneurs do? You know, they just watch consumer behavior? They see what people go through, and they're empathetic to it. And they say, why, you know, we can do better. And I think that's what Michael's done with his discovery properties. It's, you know, everyone is unique in the community. There's nothing like it. He's doing it all around the world, and he's doing it successfully all around the world because people like to be a part of something that's unlike anything else and just really breaks the code for what you'd expect in terms of where you can live and where you can hang, and that's what he's doing.
- [52:47]
A
I love it. Well, I can't wait to. To go to the discovery lands property, the one he was talking about in Portugal, because it sounds amazing, and I'd love an excuse to go play golf in Portugal. So that's on my list for 2026.
- [52:59]
B
Well, you do live in Nashville, so maybe you could go to Troubadour and play there.
- [53:03]
A
I'm trying to. I'm trying to go abroad. I'm trying to go abroad.
- [53:05]
B
Okay. Okay. You're going in Cool. A Callahan F fast, and you're going big. I love it.
- [53:10]
A
That is exactly right. That is exactly right. David, you said something a couple minutes ago that struck me, and it's really one of the themes that Michael talks about in this episode. You know, a big piece of his strategy is to be one of one in their category. And, you know, that sounds great for someone like Michael, and he's done that really well. But if there's someone listening who's really trying to figure out and define what their lane is, where should they start?
- [53:36]
B
Well, figure out what your lane is. Figure out where you really want to be, and then getting that lane, and then do everything you can to differentiate yourself so that no one is like you, you know, but you're not just different for different sake. You're different for good reason. You're different because you understand the customer better than anybody else, and you tailor what you have to offer in such a unique way. People go, man, this is. This is so different. So right on. I just want to be a part of it. I want to be part of who I am. And so their brand becomes that brand. And I think that's really, really his secret. I mean, you know, people who are discovery property homeowners, all you have to do is talk to them. They are, you know, they are raving fans.
- [54:29]
A
Yeah, they're obsessed. They love it. Is there any risk, David, to choosing your lane and deciding what your 1 of 1 is? And is there risk to determining that? Like, what if it goes wrong. What do you do?
- [54:43]
B
Well, I think things can go wrong, but the biggest thing you need to do is to follow your instincts, follow your guts, and find out if you're right. Don't worry about going wrong. You know, if you go wrong, you can always adjust. But, you know, try to make it right and see what happens. And then like anything else, you know, you're going to get learning and you'll figure out how to modify it and shift and pivot and all those kind of buzzwords. You know, you do that. But the biggest thing you can do, though, is to. Is to really find out where you really want to be, differentiate yourself as best you can, and see if it works.
- [55:24]
A
Do you have a story from your time at Yum David where you feel like you really nailed it in the becoming one of one?
- [55:31]
B
Well, I think Taco Bell is one of one. You know, Taco Bell is, you know, the only national quick service restaurant that offers Taco Bell food. I mean, Taco Bell is a Mexican food. Taco Bell's Taco Bell, that's what's really beautiful. And everybody thinks, you know, it's like, you know, Kleenex owned the category, right? Kleenex was Kleenex. I mean, there was nobody but Kleenex. I mean, that's basically it. Anybody else is just kind of ripping them off. You know, Taco Bell is the category, and there's no such thing as Taco Bell. And we were one of one, and we offered, you know, great products at great price and great value that you couldn't get anywhere else. And we positioned the brand as hip, cool, and irreverent. And it's had leading same store sales growth for years and years in the category.
- [56:21]
A
Building brands is something that Michael is certainly very gifted at. I mean, he talks in the episode about how he and a couple friends, including George Clooney, created Casamigos, the Tequila brand. And, you know, with a couple buddies, they had a goal of selling 24,000 cases in the first year, and then they blew that out of the water and ended up selling the brand for a billion dollars. So this guy knows how to build a brand and create momentum around it. And one of the things that he knows is so important is consistency as part of brand building. And you and I both know that's probably easier said than done. And in your experience, David, where can leaders or marketers or brand builders go wrong when it comes to keeping their brand consistent?
- [57:02]
B
Well, I think, you know, getting back to what Michael's done so well, first of all, you have to define who you are, make it clear to everybody about who you are, and this is what you stand for and, and then stay true to it. Anything that gets outside of that, you just don't do. But that takes real rigor, that takes real discipline, and that takes real clarity about what you really stand for. But I guarantee you people who work at Discovery Properties know what they stand for and they know what isn't them. You know, there's, there's one exercise, you know, that, that always worked very well for us when we were like, really trying to define our brands and we'd write down what we are and what we are not. And you know, I think that that's really, really helpful.
- [57:53]
A
It sounds so simple and yet you can kind of tell when people don't do it because it's like a junk drawer. They're trying to be everything to everybody. And those are the brands that really don't take off.
- [58:03]
B
Well, you know, I think, you know, brands are like people, you know, I think as a person you need to be thinking of yourself as a brand. You know, what do you really stand for? How can you be consistent with what you stand for? How many people do you really admire and respect that are all over the map and don't really stand for something? You know, not many. So, you know, I think it really behooves everybody to not only think about brand building for their products and companies that they might work for, but also for themselves. You know, what brand do you want to be? How do you want to have people see you? And then how do you really drive that home in everything that you do?
- [58:46]
A
The theme of consistency. David brings up another kind of key point that I heard a lot in the episode that Mike talked about, and that's loyalty. He says that loyalty is his best quality. He also says that loyalty is sometimes his worst quality. So I'm curious what your take on loyalty and leadership is, especially when, and if it could be holding you back in some way.
- [59:07]
B
I'd much rather be err on the side of being loyal to, to, to, to my people. And you know, there, there may be a, a point where that loyalty is, is not paid off, But I think 99.9% of the time you're rewarded for, for, for loyalty. And sometimes maybe you take a little bit longer to, to give people a second chance, then maybe you could have moved a little bit quicker. But hey, that's a mistake that, you know, I can live with versus being disloyal. You know, it's Almost like recognition. I mean, you know, people would say to me, david, you know, as you know, I've. I loved recognizing people. And people say, can you recognize people too much? Or have you recognized the wrong. Have you ever recognized the wrong people at the wrong time? And I'm sure the answer is yes, but I don't care. I'd much rather err on the side of recognizing people and making a mistake now and then than not doing it. And I'm sure I've made mistakes in that realm. But, you know, recognition overall is something that I believe is extremely powerful. So if I got to err on one side or another, I'd rather do more of it than less. And so I'd much rather be loyal than disloyal. I'd much rather err on the side of being too loyal than not loyal.
- [60:31]
A
Well, and I think of another concept you talk about a lot, David, which is the importance of having truth tellers and being a truth teller. So I think another part of that being too loyal is if you are too loyal, and it ends up putting you in a bad spot, having the humility to admit that you were wrong about something and that you made a mistake.
- [60:52]
B
You know, I know a lot of people that work at Discovery, and they sing Michael's praises because he. He believes in them. He sees in them many times what they don't see in themselves well before. Well before they. They realize they have those capabilities. And. And I think that's because he rounds up on talent. You know, I had someone that worked for him say that he was so good at identifying people that he just might see. He might see somebody in the supermarket. He'd look at that kid, and he'd say, that person needs to work at Discovery property someday. Keep an eye on him. Okay? And you know what? That guy might show up at Discovery, and. And, you know, but he has an eye for talent. And. And I think, you know, when you're in the hospitality business, if you don't have talent, you don't have anything.
- [61:39]
A
That is so true.
- [61:41]
B
That's true for. True for almost any business. I'd say true for any business.
- [61:44]
A
Well, you can tell that Mike's a guy who is deeply loyal to his people, and because of that, they're able to grow and have properties all over the world and just continue to provide that one of one experience for. For people almost in every part of the globe. So. I can't wait to go to Portugal.
- [62:02]
B
I can't either. I'm looking forward to myself.
- [62:06]
A
Are you trying to go to Portugal, too. Where are you trying to go? What? What? Discovery Land. Property.
- [62:10]
B
I want to check it out. I've had some friends go there, and they tell me it's amazing. So, yeah, I'd like to do it.
- [62:15]
A
I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. Well, David, another fantastic episode of How Leaders Lead. Thank you all so much for joining, and we will see you again next week.