Podcast Summary: How Leaders Lead with David Novak

Episode #268: Gregg Renfrew, Founder and CEO of Counter – Step back to move forward
Date: December 4, 2025
Host: David Novak
Guest: Gregg Renfrew

Episode Overview

This episode features Gregg Renfrew, the founder and CEO of Counter (formerly BeautyCounter), delving into the dramatic highs and lows of her entrepreneurial journey. Gregg and David examine the emotional and strategic realities of founding, selling, losing, and ultimately refounding a business in the clean beauty industry. Together, they unpack leadership lessons around resilience, innovation, authenticity, and managing through crisis.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Meaning and Importance of Clean Beauty (02:20)

• Definition: Gregg explains that "clean beauty" involves providing high-performance products that are significantly safer for health by excluding toxic or untested chemicals.

• Gregg Renfrew (02:20):
  “The best beauty secret I can give you is to drink a lot of water and get a lot of sleep. That’s the truth… Clean is about providing high performance products that are also significantly safer for your health.”

• Industry Context: Massive under-regulation means the majority of chemicals in cosmetics have never been tested for safety.

2. Personal Resilience and Perseverance (01:31, 23:29, 58:38)

• Central Theme: Gregg’s willingness to rebuild after public setbacks is celebrated as uncommon perseverance.

  • Gregg Renfrew (01:31):
    “People are toasting to our future success and acknowledging, you know, sort of the grit and perseverance associated with starting the same company twice.”

  • On emotional fallout from losing her company:
    “[Getting fired] was really, really hard. It was really humbling. It was really humiliating publicly. It was like… I’m this unicorn entrepreneur…and then I’m out.” (26:23)

  • On refounding:
    “Sometimes I’m happy. Some days I think, what the hell was I thinking? …it’s been so much harder than I thought it would be…But I do now have the confidence that we can do it, and I’m excited.” (58:38)

3. Lessons from Gregg’s Early Life and Career (04:19, 08:35)

• Influence of Childhood: Family’s fluctuating fortunes made her value profitability and timing in innovation.
• Entrepreneurial Spark:
  “I’ve had a side gig going since I was, I don’t know, ten years old. I always wanted to have independence.” (05:51)
• Biggest Lesson from Selling The Wedding List to Martha Stewart:
  “Lead from a place of humility and not from a place of fear... I believe in servant leadership where you’re actually aiming to support those you serve rather than looking at like, everyone’s there to serve you.” (08:35)

4. Pioneering & Disrupting the Industry (09:40, 11:50)

• Becoming a Pioneer: Personal experiences with health, the environment, and seeing friends affected by disease catalyzed Gregg’s passion for clean beauty.
• On Category Disruption: “When you go into a new category...put your blinders on and say, what kind of company do I want to build? How do I want to serve my customer?...If you’re a copycat brand, you’re not doing something that’s really disruptive and innovative.” (11:50, 12:55)

5. Staying Ahead as a Leader (14:35, 15:57)

• Key Strategies:
  • Listen to youth and outside perspectives.
  • Embrace pattern recognition across industries.
  • Know when to say no and let go emotionally.
• Gregg Renfrew (15:57):
  "With respect to leadership and innovation...you also need to know when to say no to things that seem sexy but are actually going to be a distraction and when to let go of the emotional."

6. Tough Calls: Firing and Letting Go (16:56, 35:18)

• On letting people go:
  “It’s really important as a CEO to be decisive. They always say to hire slowly and fire quickly…your entire business is built on people.” (16:56)
• On layoffs and shutdowns:
  “To the best of your abilities, speak the truth…allow for them to be angry and frustrated…do the best job that you possibly can to support them in finding something new.” (35:18)

7. Transparency, Failure, and Bouncing Back (23:14, 24:33, 29:55)

• Post-Sale Experience:
  “I felt like I was gonna feel different, but I just felt like myself again. It didn’t mean as much to me emotionally as I thought it would.” (23:29)
• Getting Fired as CEO:
  “That was a devastating blow to me because I really felt I had done an exceptional job...I went straight up and we were still growing, so I thought, well, can I have a little bit more time? But that was a decision that they made. It was hard.” (24:33)
• Comeback and Buying Back the Business:
  “Now you want me back? And so my first answer was, no. No, thank you. …The board was really convincing…I believe that clean is still worth fighting for.” (30:09, 31:40)

8. Business Model and Advocacy (20:21, 21:14)

• Direct Selling & Purpose:
  “We needed to get a community that really believed in the purpose of our brand...it was the power of the people that changed the entire industry.” (21:14)
• Education & Advocacy:
  “We spent an inordinate amount of time teaching them...Our sales force...held thousands of meetings on the Hill, sent hundreds of thousands of emails and texted members of Congress.” (22:07)

9. Radical Strategic Changes: Shutting Down to Restart (33:42, 35:00, 37:03)

• Why She Shut Down the Business:
  “I felt that in order for the business to have a chance to live, it actually had to die first…It was an excruciating decision...” (33:46, 35:00)
• Laying the Foundation for Counter:
  “I had a good cry…Then you take a deep breath and like, okay…you can chip away at a plan…We have a shot at doing something really exceptional again.” (37:03)
• SKU Simplification:
  “91% of the revenue was coming from our top 50 SKUs and we had something like 253. So it was very easy to look at what needed to go.” (39:52)

10. Evolving Leadership and Culture (41:36, 45:11)

• Aiming for Calm, Decisive Leadership:
  “One thing I’m trying to do is lead from a place of sort of a calm, rational place in a way that I didn’t before… I want people to know they need to speak their truth…” (41:36)
• All Hands on Deck:
  “If you’re not willing to do that, don’t join my team. We’re an all hands on deck kind of company.” (45:11)

11. Product Philosophy: Authenticity Over Manufactured Problems (45:50)

• Critical of the Industry:
  “The beauty industry has been built on fixing problems that don’t really exist...A wrinkle is not a problem. It’s just a thing, right?...At the end of the day, we’re here to help you feel confident…” (45:50)

12. Technology, AI, and the Future (47:20, 48:59)

• AI Caveats:
  “It’s a bit of a conundrum… We have incorporated [AI] into customer support…But how do we do so in a way that is also not out of sync with our mission?” (47:20)
• Personal Learning:
  “Slowly. My children…I’m on ChatGPT all the time…I’ve been listening to podcasts…” (48:59)

13. Lasting Lessons & Leadership Advice (49:48, 51:16, 59:48)

• Entrepreneurship Realities:
  “My definition of overnight success is 10 years, 24/7.” (49:48)
• What She Wishes She Knew Earlier:
  “Being more ahead with respect to technology... And second, I allowed for others to influence my decisions way too much...you need to be decisive as a CEO. If your gut is telling you something…you should follow it.” (51:16)
• Parting Leadership Advice:
  “Listen more. Leaders like to hear themselves talk…but if you’re not listening…you’re not going to be a very effective leader in today’s world.” (59:48)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Humiliating Failure:
  “It was really, really hard. It was really humbling. It was really humiliating publicly.” — Gregg Renfrew, (26:23)
• On Losing then Regaining Her Company:
  “It was like, I’m totally in love with my husband, but he dumps me for a younger, better model of me. And I have to smile in front of the kids.” (30:33)
• On Shutting Down to Restart:
  “I felt that in order for the business to have a chance to live, it actually had to die first.” (33:46)
• On Workplace Culture:
  “If you’re not willing to lean in, there are a lot of people, especially younger people today, that don’t really understand that to build a successful entity, it requires a whole lot of hard work. And a lot of that work isn’t very sexy.” (45:11)
• On Authentic Beauty:
  “I think beauty is not what you think it is. …beauty is about living a healthy lifestyle, having confidence in yourself, and yes, looking your best, doing the most with what you’ve been given, but it’s not at face value.” (56:13)
• On Leadership:
  “Have confidence in yourself. If your gut is telling you something, more times than not, you should follow it.” (52:43)
• On Keeping Employees:
  “Almost everyone came back... That’s the greatest compliment of your life is the fact that all these people wanted to do it with you not once, but twice, that they believe in you.” (43:33)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |---------|------------| | Introduction & Gregg’s Story | 00:38 – 03:59 | | Early Life, Entrepreneurship | 04:19 – 06:45 | | Sale to Martha Stewart | 06:47 – 08:35 | | Pioneering Clean Beauty | 09:40 – 11:31 | | Leadership Insights & Disruption | 11:31 – 15:46 | | Emotional Leadership & Letting Go | 16:56 – 18:03 | | Growing BeautyCounter | 18:25 – 23:14 | | Selling, Losing, Regaining Company | 23:29 – 31:40 | | Buying Back & Shutting Down | 31:45 – 35:00 | | Building Counter: Strategy & Culture | 37:03 – 41:36 | | Team & Culture Evolution | 41:36 – 45:11 | | Clean Beauty Philosophy | 45:50 – 46:58 | | Technology & AI | 47:10 – 48:59 | | Entrepreneurship Realities | 49:27 – 50:59 | | Biggest Lessons & Advice | 51:16 – 52:43 | | Lightning Round | 52:49 – 55:59 | | Definitions of Beauty | 56:06 – 57:01 | | Unfinished Business & Purpose | 57:08 – 58:24 | | Conclusion & Final Advice | 59:48 – end |

Leadership Takeaways & Actionable Insights

• Transparency and Compassion: Be authentic—even when it’s difficult—and speak the truth during hard conversations.
• Decisive, Calm Leadership: Learn to lead with less emotional attachment; know when to step back for objectivity.
• Purpose, Passion, and Perseverance: True leadership is shown not by how you handle success, but how you rebuild after devastation.
• Listen—Relentlessly: To customers, team members, and especially to the next generation.
• Embrace Change: Let go of what's not working to make space for new approaches, even if that means starting over.
• Stay Humble and Innovate Broadly: Inspiration can—and should—come from outside your own industry.

For First-Time Listeners

Gregg Renfrew’s story is an inspiring case of vulnerability, grit, and the power of principled leadership. Whether you’re on your own leadership journey or scaling a business, her insights into emotional resilience, purpose-driven enterprise, and honest self-reflection offer valuable lessons you can apply right now.

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