David Novak (3:31)

Yeah, that's, that's, that's a great, that's a great insight there. And, and, and that gets to the next question I was asked is how do you make money? You just mentioned some of the products that, that you make and they're helping these esports guys take off and, and win in their, their respective categories.

Hanukkah Faber (3:47)

Absolutely, absolutely. And of course, not just like in the Olympics, not everyone's going to be an Olympian. Not everyone's going to be a, you know, elite level. But what we do is work with those elite level pro gamers to deliver and, and develop products. So we have a lab here at our office where, where pro gaming teams come. They come and train actually together, but they also come and work on new products with us. That's how we develop products. And then of course, there's a lot of gamers around the world because half the world games who want to be elite gamers. Just like lots of people want to be elite soccer players or elite basketball players. And they also want the very best gear. So, so yeah, that's, that's how we work. And then you get exciting outcomes. Actually, just in a couple weeks, we start shipping the new Super Strike Logitech mouse, which is the fastest mouse ever. And some of our pro gamers actually were saying, oh my God, it's like cheating because it is so much better than anything that's out there now. And speed really matters when you're playing League of Legends or Valorant or something else.

David Novak (4:56)

What are the biggest products that you make that really account for the bulk of your revenues?

Hanukkah Faber (5:00)

Yeah, we have three big businesses, so gaming is one of them. And the other two are what we call personal workspace. So these are the products that you, you know, many people have on their desk, a keyboard and mice. Your webcam. That's, that's how we started and that's a very big business for us, personal workspace. And then the third business is video conferencing. What many people don't know is we're the global market leader in video conferencing. And that's a business that's been fast growing for us and still a business with a lot of opportunity as well. If you believe it, less than 20% of global meeting rooms actually are video conference enabled. So there's a lot of room still to put equipment into.

David Novak (5:45)

That's surprising. I would have thought that would have been Zoom.

Hanukkah Faber (5:47)

So we do the software enabled hardware. So I don't know what setup you have, but you always see like a bar that's often a Logitech rally bar under your screen. That's what we make. And that is deeply integrated with Zoom or with Microsoft Teams or with Google. And we work with all three of those big software providers to make sure you have hardware that works with that.

David Novak (6:11)

Well, Hanukkah, I know you're not a world class gamer. Maybe you play the games, but, you know, I know you're not world class, but I've learned from my research that you are and have been an elite athlete. You were 10 times Netherlands national champion diver competing in world class levels by your late teens. I mean, that's so impressive, you know. So take me back to being on the diving board. What's going on your mind right before you jump?

Hanukkah Faber (6:40)

Oh my. Well, you visualize. So you know, you're 33ft up in the air, that's a 10 meter platform or a little lower on the springboard, that's three meters. So you're high up in the air is very important before you, you do your dive that you visualize how it's going to go. So the mental part is important and that's something that's actually important in work as well. And then you just have to have guts. It is scary as hell even you know, when you're in the best shape of your life and you're, you're doing really great, it is scary every time up, you know, 33ft up in the air and doing a bunch of flips and twists. So you have to have guts. And that's another thing I think that helps me in business today. People are like, oh, aren't you scared, you know, to go on Bloomberg or to do a big presentation? I'm like, no, you know What, I'm back two and a half off the 10 meter. That is scary.

David Novak (7:35)

Yeah, I don't think I'd really want to do that. But as soon as you talked about visualization, I did think about the importance of visualization and leadership. How do you. How do you. How do you do that? I mean, how do you go through the process of visualization, you know, as you lead Logitech?

Hanukkah Faber (7:49)

Yeah, no, I think that's, you know, maybe preparation is what I would call it today, but for really important sessions, you want to prepare really well and, you know, make design the agenda of an important meeting in a way where you make sure that you, for example, hear everyone around the table, that you give time and space for that, but also that you design the process to then move fast and not let things linger. So maybe I'll give you one example. When I joined Logitech a little over two years ago, this was already a really good company. So I didn't walk into anything that was horrible by any means. But it was just after Covid, the business had declined for six or seven quarters. After the COVID sugar high. And Bracken, who I think you spoke to as well, the previous CEO had been gone for six months. So it was. The business was declining, and there hadn't been leadership from a permanent CEO in a little while. So it was clear to me, walking in that we quickly needed a new strategy, because it was kind of unclear what it was at that point. So in terms of preparation, before I even joined, I set up a week with the leadership team for a strategy session. Literally, actually, in my first week with the company, where all the leaders presented what was out there in their business, in the landscape, in terms of trend, what their customers wanted, what competition was doing, what what they thought our shareholders needed. So we really looked outside, they presented, and then by the end of the week, we kind of built what I call an mvp, a minimal viable product of a future strategy. So that was intentionally prepared and designed to move fast. But then I also knew that I couldn't move too fast because I didn't know anything my first week. So we then took some time to actually expand, expose that mvp, that minimal viable product of the strategy to all the employees of Logitech, all 7,000 of them.

David Novak (9:59)

And how in the world you do that, you know, and before you answer that question, I want to go back to what your process. It seems like you really worked hard at defining reality, really getting a sense of what the reality was. How important do you feel that is?

Hanukkah Faber (10:13)

Totally. And, you know, with any plan, you got to start from all your stakeholders. So your users, how happy are they? The trends in the market, what is coming in terms of technology, which is really important in this business, your B2B customers, how happy are they? Your shareholders, how happy are they? So starting from that, I think is really important to decide, okay, based on that, what are our goals? What are we really here to do? And then what choices do we make in terms of where we play and how we win?

David Novak (10:44)

So then how did you develop the strategy and then your MVP strategy, and then you take it to all your employees around the world? I mean, I've never heard of anybody doing that, you know, tell me how you did it.

Hanukkah Faber (10:58)

No. So I really think, I really believe in co creation and the wisdom of the crowd. And this is where video conferencing comes in, obviously. So we did a one hour session for the whole company, everyone was invited, where we presented that MVP of the strategy as a leadership team. Um, and then we asked everyone to go away in small groups. So we were in 150 countries. So people went away in their countries in smaller groups. And we gave them 24 hours to come up with their small group with three things they liked about the strategy and three things. I called them builds, but, you know, things they didn't like or that they missed. And we came back 24 hours later in a two hour session on video. And about, we got through about 45 teams from around the world who presented back to us, very short, crisp presentations. Here are the three things we like here, the three things that we would build or do differently. And it was incredibly helpful, incredibly helpful. And I think for two reasons. You know, we got loads of feedback and it made that MVP of the strategy better. But also, you know, thousands of employees kind of, you know, knew the strategy. I didn't have to deploy it. They, they worked on it. So it became theirs as much as mine or the leadership team. So, so yeah, the wisdom of the crowd. Big believer in that. But you got it to your first question. Prepare so it doesn't become a process that lasts three years because then you've lost a battle.

David Novak (12:33)

You know, I, I can imagine sitting in an executive team meeting like that and say, now I want to get feedback of what we've worked on from 7,000 employees around the world. I bet that wasn't necessarily universal. Like, hey, yeah, let's go do that Hanukkah. What a great idea. I mean, what was the response?

Hanukkah Faber (12:51)

Yeah, yeah, there were, there were a few people who were a little skeptical, if only about the logistics, like, you know, how will we do that? Can that actually be done? But then sometimes you just have to say, let's at least try it. You know, what's the worst that can happen? It's really not that bad. So. So we did it. And. And I think that resulted in a really, really solid strategy. Delivers 8, 8/4 of consecutive growth, and we just delivered a quarter with record operating income and record margins. So. So, so far, so good.

David Novak (13:24)

No, that's, that's. Congratulations on that. You know, but it's interesting, you know, when you ask for feedback, you got to prepare, be prepared to take it. And, you know, and a lot of times, if you don't take it, people think you didn't listen. How did you get back to the people that you didn't necessarily listen to their builds?

Hanukkah Faber (13:43)

I. I would say, you know, again, we got 45 teams presenting to us, and there was. They also listened to each other. So it was clear to themes that that arose. People really like the theme of building an iconic brand, which I'm sure you're really good at as well. So we elevated that in our final strategy also in terms of the resources we were going to allocate to it, et cetera. So that's. That was on the, you know, we really like it side. On the. I missed this side, and that's, you know, I blame us for missing it, but Logitech has always been a pioneer in sustainability, and that was not clear in our MVP that we wanted to continue that. And people caught us right away. They were like, you know, where is that? This is so near and dear to our heart. So we brought that back, I would say, in a more modern way, taking real climate action rather than just buying a whole bunch of offsets, which there was a little bit off in the past, and people appreciated that. But I think because they heard the themes, they also knew we can't not act on every build or piece of feedback. But the themes were clear, and we did act on those. And I think people appreciated that.

David Novak (14:56)

It kind of reminds me a lot of people kind of dates me to a certain extent. The old car campaign for Toyota, you asked for it, you got it in the sense that you got. You listened and responded to their action. It became their strategy. How. How important is that involvement in your mind?

Hanukkah Faber (15:16)

I think that's really, really important. You know, a CEO who, who goes off and does his strategy and then expects that even. We're not a huge company, but even with 7,000 people, for me to expect that, I can just, you know, from my perch, deploy that strategy and make sure it happens, it's just not going to happen. So people have to make it part of the their own plans and be feel like they're involved in it. And nothing makes me happier. I'm going to China tomorrow. Nothing makes me happier than when I see in China them using the exact words that are in our strategy. I'm building killer plans that come straight off that strategy because they feel it's theirs. It's their China strategy.

David Novak (15:56)

I want to go back to your diving because I think there's so many analogous things to talk about in terms of leadership.

Hanukkah Faber (16:04)

But.

David Novak (16:04)

But I've heard you say that you just don't go for big dives. You work up to them. How has that shaped the way you take on big challenges as a CEO?

Hanukkah Faber (16:17)

Yeah, it's a good question. So indeed, in diving, you don't start with a dive that goes straight to 10 meters up in the air. You first practice it on the trampoline and you're in a harness with, with ropes, and your coach is actually holding you as you do the flips. Then you may go up to, you know, sometimes as low as 1 meter platform, and then you go to 3 and to 5, and only then do you do it off to 10. And the first time you do it, you often use a bubble machine that makes bubbles in the water. So if you do smack doesn't hurt quite as much. There's many steps. And I, I think in business as well, if I use iconic branding as an example, that's not going to happen overnight. Just because I want Logitech to be an iconic brand that doesn't happen that next week it is, because we're in so many markets and it takes time to build something like that. So I think sequencing plans and investments over time, but then celebrating the little successes along the way is really, really important. I'm sure you've also experienced that. And again, that comes back to diving. Sometimes it's great to do something great off the 5 meter on your way to 10.

David Novak (17:29)

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm not sure what a failed dive would really feel like, especially from as high up as you did. But I'm curious to hear a story about how you had to bounce back after maybe having a bad fall.

Hanukkah Faber (17:43)

Yeah, smacking is really unpleasant, and hitting the board is even less pleasant. But fortunately, in diving, that doesn't happen very often. So those are really exceptions. But I would think what I really learned from diving is in diving, you get feedback a hundred times a day. So after every dive, your coach will tell you mostly what you did wrong. So, you know, Hanukkah Yeah, that was all right. But you should point your toes. Hanukkah. That was all right, but you were leaning back. Hanukkah. That was okay, but your arms were bent. So you get that a hundred times a day. And you really, A, learn to act on feedback, and B, you know, you don't mind feedback. I try to give good feedback to my people, but I also try to take feedback because I know feedback makes you better. And I, you know, as a diver, you cannot get better if you don't take that feedback literally 100 times a day. So coaching and feedback, I think, is part of great leadership. And I really try to live up to the level of my best dive coaches. Yeah.

David Novak (18:47)

And, you know, you mentioned earlier, you know, it taught you courage to deal with the potential fear that you might have. And as you mentioned, I thought, here you are now a CEO. Is there something that you're afraid of now? I mean, when you think about the business or you think about, is there something inside that you fear and have to overcome? Because all leaders usually have something.

Hanukkah Faber (19:15)

No, I think we all have our fears. So for me, you know, I joined Logitech. I live here in the Silicon Valley now, but I spent my entire career in consumer goods. And sometimes I have to pinch myself because literally, you know, two. Two years ago, I was still selling mayonnaise. You believe her? So sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, here I am, you know, Ms. Tech. That can be a little fearful in the Silicon Valley with mostly, you know, peer CEOs who have been here their whole careers who are, you know, electrical engineers or software engineers by trade. My background is completely different. So that is sometimes a little scary. But then you have to just think through, okay, there's other things I bring, and. And we have fabulous engineers all around our company who do great work that I therefore don't need to do myself.

Podcast Host (20:11)

Hello, everyone. I hope you are loving this conversation between David and Hanukkah. As always, stay tuned to the very end of the episode. David and I are going to break down some of the key concepts he discusses with Hanukkah so that you leave this conversation with some practical tools that you can apply right away to your leadership or to your life. Stay tuned to the very end of the episode and enjoy the rest of this conversation with David and Hanukkah.

David Novak (20:37)

You know, I can't wait to dig more into your leadership journey and all you're doing at Logitech. But first, I want to take you back a little more. You know, what's A story from your childhood that really impacted the kind of leader that you are today.

Hanukkah Faber (20:50)

I was very, very lucky. I grew up in Holland, a small country, but when I was a junior in high school, I was on the Dutch national team diving team, and I, I went to the World championships, dove at the world championships, and I got recruited there to come to the United States. And this is now a long time ago, I'm dating myself. But this is before the Internet. So the coach of the US Team was the coach at the University of Houston. And he wrote a letter after worlds to my parents and I, you know, inviting me to come to Houston on a full scholarship. Again, this is before the Internet. So we looked at the atlas to see where Houston might be. I remember it was in the orange zone where it was warm. I said, this is good. Holland is not warm. Let's, let's, let's do this.

David Novak (21:39)

Houston is very warm.

Hanukkah Faber (21:40)

It is very warm. Then, you know, the follow up letter was, you need to take this test called the sat. We had never heard of the sat. So on one Saturday morning, I ride my bike to the American School of the Hague to take this famous SAT that we had never heard of. I was a little scared because when I got to the American School of the Hague, there was all these parents and children with these big books, how to take the sat, which, you know, I had no idea. And I'll never forget this. I got in there and, you know, the SAT is multiple choice and there's always an example. But my English wasn't great, right? I mean, I, I had some English in high school, but it wasn't great. So the first section was English and it was opposites. The. And the example was good and obviously the answer was bad. I'm like, I got this. The example. And I'll never forget the first actual question was ruffianism. And I'm like, oh, my God, I am so screwed. I have no idea. So I hate to admit this, but I'm like, okay, maybe I start cheating a little bit on this test. So I start copying from the guy next to me. But after five questions, I realized he's doing math because, you know, they, they, they don't give you all the same test. So this whole thing is like. So I walk out of there afterwards, I'm like, oh, I don't know that that was good enough. In any case, I ended up with like 420 on the English and 7 you on the math. Fortunately, European math education is good, and that was good enough for Houston. But in any case, that tells you, you know, I did not come to Houston, like, super prepared. If I compare this to the way my children chose their colleges, I kind of, it was very random. I went there for diving, but I am so thankful to the University of Houston, to the ncaa, for giving me the chance to come to America as an 18 year old who didn't speak English well, I initially was going to stay for one year, train really hard, and then go to the Olympics and come back to Europe. But I loved it in Texas. I adored it. So I ended up graduating, getting an undergrad and getting an MBA as well there. And that has changed my life. So I would say that, you know, that that really, really changed my life and I'll be eternally grateful for that opportunity.

David Novak (24:06)

You know, Hanukkah, I love the fact that you admitted that you took this test and you actually scoped a few answers there at the beginning and realized that you were looking at the wrong place.

Hanukkah Faber (24:18)

But I am not proud.

David Novak (24:20)

Yeah, well, you're also vulnerable to do that. And is that a part of how you lead?

Hanukkah Faber (24:29)

Yeah. And I wouldn't recommend that anyone cheats, obviously, but I do think it helps, you know, to, in business with your teams, with the people that work with you, work with, to ask questions and to share. So that goes both ways at the University of Houston. Here's my hubris again. I decided to be a journalism major, which is, of course a great choice if you don't really speak English. But journalism there did teach me to ask questions, if anything. I never became a journalist, and journalism, unfortunately went way out of style ever since. But I was trained as a, as a newspaper journalist. And the thing I learned apart from writing pretty well, which, which helps in any career, but is to ask questions. You know, the five W's and the two H's. Who, what, where, why, how, and again, I think that helps in any situation, whether you're trying to decide on strategy, whether you're trying to get better talent, whether you're just trying to have fun. It's helpful in business.

David Novak (25:40)

Yeah, well, we, we're both journalism majors, so there you go.

Hanukkah Faber (25:44)

Oh, you were a journalism major too now?

David Novak (25:47)

Absolutely. And I agree with you.

Hanukkah Faber (25:48)

Amazing.

David Novak (25:49)

You know, the writing skill is very helpful and I think being curious is, is a trait that a lot of leaders.

Hanukkah Faber (25:56)

Yeah. So did you ever work as a journalist?

David Novak (25:59)

No, I, but I did start out as an advertising copywriter and. But that taught me how to get in the mind of customers and be creative and work with advertising agencies, et cetera. So it worked out fine, you know. And you know, speaking of advertising and marketing, you spent more than two decades at Procter and Gamble, which is one of the greatest brand building companies in the world. You know, tell me a story from your time there that taught you the most.

Hanukkah Faber (26:26)

I learned so much. First of all, at P and G, it really is a school. And I know you were at PepsiCo, which is another great CPG school. So again, super thankful they sent me around the world. I started in Holland, but I got to work in Greece. I got to work in Cincinnati, of course, Mecca for Proctor, and in Geneva and Switzerland at their European headquarters. So I learned a lot about working with, in different countries and with people from all kinds of different cultures and maybe, yeah, maybe a story actually to illustrate that. So when I was, when I was. It was early on. So I had been with PNG for three or four years and they sent me to Greece for an assignment. I did not speak Greek in that office. It was me and 200 Greeks. And I became brand manager, well, of a whole bunch of beauty brands, including Head and Shoulders. And I remember in my first week, I didn't speak a word of Greek. And we had to do consumer research, because that's what you do at Proctor. You really listen to the consumers and you build your plans off that. So into this focus group with like eight Greek ladies and a translator for me because otherwise it would be kind of useless. And I sit there and she translates the question. And then literally I sat there for 10 minutes and these Greek women were talking and it was all quite animated. She didn't say anything. After 10 minutes she goes, they liked it. Like, I'm not really getting the nuance here. So I quickly learned the language, actually, because I, I figured I cannot do my job here if I don't really embed myself in this culture, in this society. So I'm proud to tell you that my Greek's pretty good. And, and, and I think what I take along from that is again, you have to understand the external world, starting from the user of the products you're trying to market and sell.

David Novak (28:28)

Great story. And then you went on to Unilever where you're head of Global nutrition and sold a lot of mayonnaise. I don't know if those two things sync up, but maybe you had the fat free mayonnaise, I don't know. And you were on the executive team at Unilever. How did that experience prepare you for taking on the CEO role? Being on the executive team?

Hanukkah Faber (28:50)

Yeah. So in between P&G and Unilever. I also spent four years at Ahold Delays. So a retailer, which actually was really helpful to see the other side of the table. And I ran an E commerce business or their, their E commerce business there. So that actually, and that was early on in 20, started there in 2013. So that actually was a helpful piece also for this job because that was working with a lot of engineers and software people to build an E Comm business. But I would say Proctor and Unilever, again, both actually great, great schools. And there's a lot of things that you learn there that are also applicable at Logitech and in, in, in technology. You know, it all starts from the consumer and the customer. Sometimes we call them the user here, but you got to understand them and what their needs are. Great brands make a big difference. So. And I feel fortunate to have worked on some great brands. Head and Shoulders, Hellman's, Ben and Jerry's, Olay. And Logitech actually is a great brand. It's a $5 billion brand. There's not that many of those around the world. So we're going to try and make that truly iconic product mean.

David Novak (30:01)

What does that mean? I mean, how do you make it iconic? I think I know what iconic means, but, you know, what's it. When will you know you've arrived as an iconic brand?

Hanukkah Faber (30:09)

Oh, yeah, that's a great question. I don't know that we'll know when we have arrived, but I, I, I do know that today we score really well on, I shouldn't call it the boring stuff, but kind of the more functional stuff. So people trust us. People think our products are good, but do they think we're sexy? No, you know, we're a little functional. Do they believe, you know, we have charisma, that cool people use us? Are we the brand you want to sit next to at a dinner party or better, that you want to be seen sitting next to at a dinner party? Not quite yet. I think when we get there, then we're iconic and that's that. That, that will take a little while.

David Novak (30:50)

So how do you make Logitech sexy? I mean, you know, what are you doing? Is there anything going on right now to make it a little sexier?

Hanukkah Faber (30:56)

Yeah, absolutely. So I think it's about social first marketing and partnerships and events. So I'll give you a couple of examples. Social first marketing is all about working with influencers who, and those can be small or big, who, who like our products, who use our products, and who talk about our products much Better for others to talk about your products than you. So we just launched our new flagship mouse, the MX Master 4. And we're so pleased that Marcus Brownlee, who is one of the premier technology influencers, loves it and talks about it on his, you know, on his channels. So that's, that's social first marketing, which is marketing today and wildly different, by the way, from marketing even five years ago. And then the second, second thing is partnerships and events. Yes, most of our marketing is, is online, but there is a real value in doing some life things. So we, in September, we always have an event or for the last two years we've had an event called Logiplay, which takes place in 16 cities around the world. We bring the gaming together, the competitive gamers. We talked about gaming influencers, our own gaming experts and our engineers. And we use that event to game to be together as a community to have fun, but also to launch our new gaming products and for people to try them. That's a super popular event with millions and millions of people live streaming it and wanting to be part of that. And that is the start of an iconic brand. And that is how you market today. I would say the last thing is partnerships. If I use gaming, again, we have a partnership on our simulation driving business, the wheels with McLaren. And if you talk about an iconic driving brand, McLaren is absolutely one. So the fact that Lando and Oscar to McLaren drivers use our simulation as they train is huge. The fact that we develop products with them is huge. And again, that that sim business is on its way to being iconic.

David Novak (33:06)

That's cool. You know, I did a podcast with Zach Brown.

Hanukkah Faber (33:10)

Oh, you did? Yeah.

David Novak (33:12)

He's a great brand builder and he understands that. So you two linking up and the brands makes. That makes so much sense. And you know, I was thinking that, you know, Procter and Gamble, Unilever, two packaged goods companies that I know of, I don't know of, two that have more process and discipline. I mean Pepsi, we were more gunslingers. You know, we didn't have as much process. You know, how do you think about managing your gut instincts and process? I mean, you know, what, what do you let rule?

Hanukkah Faber (33:45)

Yeah. Such a great question and very relevant here for me at Logitech because before the pandemic, this was a smallish company. You know, it was less than 2 billion in sales. And in the pandemic it exploded because everyone was home, everyone was online. So post the pandemic. We're now close to a $5 billion company. So it's called as Medium sized and some of the things that worked in a small company because everyone knew everyone just don't work as well in a medium sized company. So you do need to some, I hate to call it process, but you do need maybe better what we talked about earlier, preparation for things. You can't just gunsling a meeting together and hope you get a good strategy out of that, that people will actually go act on you. You do need to prepare and think about this larger organization, this larger business. How do I use the word process then? But how do I prepare a process that will yield results and that I can measure and it doesn't have to be, you know, at Ahold we used to say Ahold was the ministry of Retail. I definitely don't want us to be the ministry of Technology. And there'll still be a lot of entrepreneurialism here at Logitech. But we, we, we have implemented a little bit more preparation and planning maybe than there was before.

David Novak (35:14)

Yeah. And, and you put process around your strategy which got all your employees involved, which is, it's great. But then you had to use your gut in the end to decide what you're going to listen to and what you weren't.

Hanukkah Faber (35:27)

Totally. There's always, you know, in the end you have to take some decisions. It's interesting with AI as well. You know, you can ask the models anything and it will spit out fabulous answers. But in the end, a human has to say, okay, based on, you know, all these fabulous answers, we're going to do this. And humans actually have to do things. So. And that's often, you know, information based intuition.

David Novak (35:54)

Do you have a time or story you could tell about, you know, where your gut overruled the process?

Hanukkah Faber (36:00)

I mean, maybe even, you know, taking this job, which is, you know, if you look at all my background, you would say this is probably not going to work. Well, you know, she knows how to sell shampoos and ice cream and that's what she's done for 30 years. Really. And in the Silicon Valley, what I just felt this was going to be fun and there was a lot of growth opportunity here and, and you know, again, what's the worst that can happen? I'm definitely not going to hit the board or smack on the water. So let's try it.

David Novak (36:34)

Well, you're doing well. You got a good run going on, which is fantastic. You know, you know, you mentioned earlier from diving you learned about the importance of getting coaching and getting feedback. Tell us about a, you know, one on one coaching session with you that you Provide someone that works for you. I mean, what's it look like? How do you structure it? You know, how do you offer up coaching?

Hanukkah Faber (36:54)

I would say this is one of the things I learned at Proctor. You know, coaching and feedback is very much about asking questions. It is not about me lecturing because the person probably is going to remember very little of it. So it's about asking questions. And then the second piece is, you know, when you really is timely feedback on things that happened. So there's no point in trying to Give someone feedback 3 months after something happened. Try to pull that person into a little room right away and always try to come up with two or three things that went well and maybe only one where they can improve. That works much better. And if there's one thing I would say to my old Dutch diving coaches, you know, learn from that because they forgot those two or three often.

David Novak (37:47)

You know, you use the phrase fill the scrapbook when you talk about building teams. Talk more about that.

Hanukkah Faber (37:56)

Yeah, I, I'm a big believer in that. You, you know, you literally have to fill the scrapbook. You got to do things together to go beyond sitting in a room together and, and you know, looking at PowerPoint slides. So when we get our leadership team together, we really try to do things together. And those can be as simple as, you know, a morning touring, Media Mart and Best Buys. But they can also be more elaborate where we go visit another company or we all go to Taiwan together to look at different technologies. You know, I'm not sure I'm a big believer in like these elaborate team building things where we all go to the North Pole together. I think those can be a little bit of a waste of money. So that's not what I mean by filling the scrapbook, but in the context of the business, getting yourself out of the office and closer to users, technology customers together, that can be super fun and very memorable. And I think that's what teams really do need.

David Novak (38:57)

Yeah, I think what you're talking about there is the power of the shared experience because people can hearken back to it and say, this is what we learn together.

Hanukkah Faber (39:06)

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And one of the things I love doing with my team are in home visits, which I'm sure you've done in your career. You know, going into users homes and actually seeing how they use our products. You know, I was in Brazil a couple months ago with, with many members of my team and just to go into homes in Sao Paulo, I hadn't realized but like literally everyone in Brazil is an influencer so their setups were so elaborate and they were all doing content. There's so much opportunity there for us. So sometimes you learn so much together that then, you know, provides new sparks for the business. But in homes are fabulous.

David Novak (39:50)

Another thing that I've learned that you tell your team is that in quotes, today is the slowest day of the rest of your life. What do you mean by that?

Hanukkah Faber (39:59)

Sometimes we feel like things are moving really fast. It really. This is the slowest day of the rest of our lives because it is only going to get faster. And I, you know, I don't want to get all Silicon Valley with singularity and AI, but things are exponential. And what felt fast a year ago feels slow today. And I'm sure a year from now, we'll think today is slow. So, you know, getting ahead of things is ever harder. But we have to keep trying and we have to keep getting faster ourselves.

David Novak (40:34)

You know, you're reputed for having an incredibly high sense of urgency. You know, as a leader, how do you drive that urgency without wearing people out? Or do you even think about it?

Hanukkah Faber (40:46)

It is. It's a great question. And that's one of the things I love about the culture here, but really the culture at all the companies I've worked at, I think I've been very lucky in that, you know, we want to win, but we can't do that by wearing people out. And so caring about people is really key. And we've got this super cute thing that I had never seen here at Logitech, which is called Logi. Thanks. And it's four times a year where we have a long weekend, so a Friday and a Monday off, we give it to everyone in the company. It's truly time off. There are no meetings, not for me. They're for anyone. And it's a way to say thanks to our people because they do work incredibly hard and they do work fast, but we just give them eight extra days where. Where they're also not pulled into things because there are no meetings. So I love that. And I think you have to, you know, balance it somehow, because we gotta win, we gotta move fast, but we also gotta take care of ourselves and our people.

David Novak (41:50)

You know, you mentioned culture, and speaking of culture, then what's one thing you think you've brought to the culture of Logitech that might not have been there when you. When you showed up?

Hanukkah Faber (42:00)

You know, I think it's actually really hard to change a culture profoundly. It's the same with the culture of a country. You know, it is very hard to change the culture of a country or a company. So one of the reasons I was excited to come to Logitech is that they have a really great and healthy culture with some things that I really care about. So the number one value at Logitech is equality and environment. Well, those are two things I care deeply about and I think actually are business builders as well. The second one is hungry but humble. Also really important is that, you know, again, we want to win, but we're not going to be about it. So I don't know that I changed the culture, but I hope that I, that I strengthen it and maybe made it relevant for today. You know, again, I talked about sustainability earlier on equality and environment. You know, those are things that are maybe not as popular today in the US as they were a few years ago, but they're part of our culture. They're really important to us, and we make them relevant for today. And when it comes to sustainability and the environment, I deeply believe that doing the right thing for the planet isn't just the right thing to do, but it's actually good for business. Business. Our customers, especially our B2B customers, want products with lower footprint because they're all trying to get their footprint down. Younger consumers want products that are more sustainable because they care. And often when we develop more sustainable products with lower footprints, they're actually cheaper. So it's good for our shareholders, too. So I've tried to make these things relevant for today, and that's not always easy. But they're so deeply embedded in Logitech's culture that I don't think I would ever try and change that.

David Novak (43:46)

Yeah, you know, I think, you know, for listeners out there, there's some real power in coming into a company and versus thinking the only way you can make your mark is change everything. But take, take what's already there and strengthen it and, and make it better. And that, that seems to be a big part of how you think.

Hanukkah Faber (44:05)

No, and, and I was never prouder, honestly, in that, you know, all the business results are, are very good and I'm proud of those, but never prouder than when Fortune has its annual list of global top employers and they, they interview 300,000 people out of 750 of the world's biggest companies. We had never been part of that survey because we weren't big enough. But last year, for the first time, we were included. We didn't know that, but in this survey of 750 companies, we came out 25th, which is amazing. Right Next to Amazon and Nvidia, it's Forbes actually, I'm told. Sorry, Forbes, not Fortune, but we came in 25th, right, with Amazon and Nvidia, which is insane. But it tells you that our people do love working here, which is great.

David Novak (44:53)

And you have a very creative group at Logitech, no question about it, because design and innovation is so important to your company and you put out 30 to 40 new products a year. How do you stay true to what your brand is? Logic, Logitech and all this innovation, how do you keep people focused on what you are?

Hanukkah Faber (45:16)

Yeah, my predecessor Bracken did a great job at making this a design led company. So that's very much, you know, it probably already was, but it was one of the things that he really strengthened. And we have 300 in house designers who work on all that innovation. I think Logic is a brand with really broad shoulders. You know, we appeal to 15 year old gamers and to CIOs of the world's biggest companies. So we, we really, we really, really can do lots of things. What I think is important and what I try to, you know, keep reminding people of is our, our, our mission is pretty simple. We are about extending human potential in work and play. So we try to make people a little more productive, help you perform better when you play that game, help you connect a little bit more easily. And we do that in two huge spaces, working and gaming. So as long as the innovation fits in that framework, I'm good with it. Now if you go out of that box and you go off and do something that is really truly different and is not work and play or doesn't extend human potential, then we're probably not going to spend a lot of resources on that project. But I think the sandbox is big enough to give people a lot of freedom and, and you see that in the products that come out every year.

David Novak (46:36)

You know, I always like to ask this question, what are you most excited about when you look out in the future? What's coming down the line? Maybe that you could tell us about the Super Strike.

Hanukkah Faber (46:47)

I mentioned that earlier. The new gaming mouse. Wow, that is like a step changing gear. That is like, it's like you remember those swimsuits that are now banned that really made all the swimmers like fish and like two seconds faster than they were before. This one's not going to be banned, but it's, it is a step change like that. So I'm excited about that for gamers. We also announced just last week and it won't ship for A little while yet. But new video conferencing cameras. They're called the Rally AI Camera and the Rally AI Pro. I don't know on how many video conferences you are, but the worst experience is you're on the other side of a large room, you know, an auditorium or something. And, I mean, you have no idea who's talking on the other side. You just see all these little tiny heads. You can't get a word in because that other room is so big. So the Israeli AI cameras are specifically for that instance, and they really produce that meeting for the people on the other side. It's like having Steven Spielberg producing and zooming in on the right person, zooming in on who's talking, going around, not zooming in on the person who is, like, opening a packet of chips, because you don't want that. So it's really smart, and it makes that experience better. And I think it's a great example of really understanding the user and then using AI to provide a great product.

David Novak (48:16)

You know, you're the first female CEO of Logitech. You know, my daughter, she's in the business world, and, you know, I know one of the things that she would like you to share is, you know, the obstacles that. That you've had to overcome as a female leader to get to where you are today.

Hanukkah Faber (48:37)

So thank. Please thank your daughter for asking the question. And, you know, I. My big believer is you cannot be what you cannot see. So while I dislike being the first female CEO, I think it's more important that I'm not the last. So hopefully when she sees me, she. She thinks, oh, well, you know, she can do it, I can do it. And I think in. In my career, I've really benefited from seeing other women doing great. So at Procter and Gamble, I was lucky enough that there were. There were wonderful female role models. My. My boss's boss's boss, you know, Susan Arnold was the vice chair of the company. Jenna Drossos was my boss's boss, and then my boss and then my peer for a while as well. You need to see that other women can do this. And I think that's true for any, you know, underrepresented group. And I do feel a big responsibility to, you know, do a good job so that younger women, including my own daughters, see that it can be done. And honestly, obviously, obstacles. I think I've been very lucky along the way. I've had great mentors, great sponsors, and a great family. And maybe I'll say that very important. Who's Your partner, can you drag your kids around the world? Which I have done for different jobs. That support is really, really critical.

David Novak (50:11)

So what advice would you give to other female leaders who are watching this?

Hanukkah Faber (50:15)

The same advice I would give to all leaders. I don't think there's anything specific for, for females. But you know, this morning actually here at Logic, we had a presentation of our ergs, our employee resource groups and they're. I. And so there's, there's women's groups and, and all kinds of other groups. I would say to, to women. Those have been helpful to me over the years because sometimes we don't network quite as well as the guys. But almost every company has a, you know, a women's erg. I've led those at Proctor, in Europe, at Unilever, globally. And they're fun and I'm proud actually at Unilever was called lead, with 30% males on the women's erg who acted as allies. But these, these groups can give you a community, can, can help you solve some practical things like I got babysitters out of the group at, at Proctor, but also allow you to show yourself outside of your, you know, your lane, your, your, your day to day role. You get to know more people. And that kind of networking is maybe something that women doesn't come so naturally to women as to, as to men. So that's one way to network. But you know, becoming part of groups that are outside your day to day job, maybe don't think of that as networking. Women often don't like that word. But becoming part of other groups is really helpful. You learn and you can be seen.

David Novak (51:49)

How about just the mindset that you mentioned that you don't see a differentiation between men and female leaders. You'd have to be a leader. How about that mindset?

Hanukkah Faber (51:57)

Yeah, I think that's a good mindset. I really, I, you know, I, I really don't think that there's great female leaders that are wildly different from great male leader characteristics.

David Novak (52:10)

You mentioned AI a little bit earlier. You know, what are you doing personally in the world of AI that is making you a better leader personally in business.

Hanukkah Faber (52:19)

Here overlap. Because at Logitech, AI has to be a big tailwind for us because we build products that are AI enabled that have AI all over them. And I'm really proud that we're talking about it this morning. Two years ago when we did our strategy, actually the word AI wasn't in our strategy because ChatGPT had just launched and no one like really knew what was going on. So we've just refreshed the strategy and AI is now a bit more prominent. But I'm proud that we've gone from. Many companies are still like experimenting and doing proofs of concept. We are now at a stage where we are shipping AI enabled products globally at scale. So whether that's, you know, our video cameras that I just mentioned, or spot sensors, which are AI sensors for meeting rooms, or new headsets that are two way noise cancellation, which you can only do if it's machine learning and AI enabled, we are shipping those products at scale, which is super cool. And we can only do that because our people are using AI at scale and really extending their own potential through AI. So we do track it anonymized and we know that 85% of our engineers and designers and so 75% of our total employees are heavy AI users.

David Novak (53:47)

Wow.

Hanukkah Faber (53:48)

So we are, you know, we're all extending our own potential by using agents. We've also built Internally more than 1500 AI agents in the last year. So our processes really are getting better and faster and we're doing more with the same resources. So, so I'm, you know, I'm, I'm actually really optimistic on AI helping us grow faster without having to add an army of people.

David Novak (54:15)

That's great. You know, Annika, it's been so much fun and I want to have a little bit more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this? I shall try the three words that best describe you.

Hanukkah Faber (54:25)

Mom. Dutch. Nice.

David Novak (54:29)

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?

Hanukkah Faber (54:32)

Oh, my husband.

David Novak (54:34)

Your biggest pet peeve?

Hanukkah Faber (54:36)

Clutter.

David Novak (54:36)

Who would play you in a movie?

Hanukkah Faber (54:38)

Uma Thurman.

David Novak (54:39)

What's something about Holland you'd only know if you're from there?

Hanukkah Faber (54:43)

Chocolate sprinkles on bread. We love them.

David Novak (54:46)

What's your favorite language to speak and answer in that language?

Hanukkah Faber (54:51)

Oh, ney lonzen tulikomi.

David Novak (54:56)

What's something you've been curious about lately that has nothing to do with work?

Hanukkah Faber (55:00)

I have been reading an interesting book called the Good Soldier Spike, which is a classic, but I had never read it. It's a classic by a Czech writer about World War I. And I realized I don't know enough about World War I and what happened, especially in middle Europe. And I'm gonna read more and maybe do some more traveling in that area.

David Novak (55:24)

What's the one thing you do just for you.

Hanukkah Faber (55:27)

I'm a big fan of quick exercise, so I love Mad fit, the app. 10 minutes. Great workout. Do those for me.

David Novak (55:37)

Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession?

Hanukkah Faber (55:42)

I'm not big into things. I don't even have a car. We moved back to America two years ago, and my husband said, you cannot live in America without a car. I'm like, watch me. And I'm doing it. So, no, it really is my husband, my kids, my family, my friends. I think I can almost live without anything else.

David Novak (56:03)

So you don't have a car?

Hanukkah Faber (56:04)

Nope.

David Novak (56:05)

So I was. My next question is, if I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?

Hanukkah Faber (56:09)

Nothing. There is no radio, there is no car.

David Novak (56:14)

What's something about you? Few people would know, besides the fact you don't have a radio and you don't have a car.

Hanukkah Faber (56:19)

I'm really not very technical, so I, like, struggle to turn on our television, which I'm ashamed of. And I have to do better, especially as a tech CEO.

David Novak (56:30)

What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss?

Hanukkah Faber (56:33)

Breakfast, Most important meal of the day.

David Novak (56:37)

All right, that's terrific. Lightning round's over. You did great. And I'm going to just ask you a couple more questions, let you get back to work here. You know, you're a mom of three. You know, how do you lead at home?

Hanukkah Faber (56:50)

Yeah. So our kids are 26, 23, and 21. So they've all left home. And I miss them terribly. Honestly. It's been absolutely the joy of our lives to. To watch them grow up and to. To, you know, have the honor of being their parents. I'll tell you, today, I lead them like I lead my business. I asked lots of questions. They're actually quite helpful. So our oldest is an electrical engineer who's now getting his mba. He's very techy, and he's a gamer. So when I first joined Logitech, I spent literally 48 hours straight at his apartment gaming, because I didn't know anything about gaming. So he. He's taught me a lot, and he continues to be a wealth of insights. And then my youngest actually works at Procter and Gamble. So that's been fun. She just started there last summer. And she's a. She's a great marketeer and a young marketeer, so that's fun. When it comes to social. I learn a lot from her. And then the middle one was a college golfer. Now is working, but she is so Zen. I am so impressed with competitive golfers, how they can just get up, you know, hit a bad shot and then get on. And sometimes I don't do that well, and I just think of her and talk to her and she is so calm. So they're all inspirations.

David Novak (58:14)

What do you see as your unfinished business, both for Logitech and personally?

Hanukkah Faber (58:20)

This business at Logitech has still so much opportunity. So there's. There's a lot of unfinished business here. We'll keep doing what we do well. Well, but for example, there's a few things in our strategy that are definitely unfinished. Doubling down on B2B, that's only 40% of our business. Today it can be more than half. And we have to build a lot of capabilities in B2B. And I want to do that. China for China. That was a big intervention that I made when I got here. It's going really well. Last quarter again, double digit growth in China. But China, you can never rest on your laurels. The competition is so fierce, the pace of innovation is so high. So to really embed that and have a sustainable growth path in the world's biggest gaming market, that's unfinished business as well. And then I'll say climate again. Before I got here, the company made big climate commitments. 50% carbon reduction by 2030, that ambition has stayed. That is really hard to do. We are reducing. Last year we were down 13% versus our baseline. But that's definitely unfinished business. And I would love for us to show the world of tech and electronics that it can be done.

David Novak (59:39)

Fantastic. Well, if anybody could do it, I'm sure you will. And, and last question here. What's one piece of advice that you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?

Hanukkah Faber (59:48)

You know, I'll use a piece of advice that I got when I first became a general manager at P and G. So this is a while ago and it maybe links to your daughter's question again too. So, you know, I first became a general manager when I had just had my third child. So I had three children under five and I was to be a GM at Proctor. And you know, honestly, I don't remember very much all blur those days. And your children are little and you, you, you have a big job. And one of the more senior women said to me, listen, there's only four things in life. There's you, your husband, your children and your job. I was like, okay. And then she said, you can only do two of them well. And I was like, oh, that's really depressing because I'd like to do all of those well. And then she gave me a great piece of advice. She said, at least rotate. And this is so true in life. Life is long. Yes. On a given day, maybe you're only going to do your job and your children well and you and your husband are forgotten. And there might be more than four things in life actually, as well. And there will be times like that time. In fact, you know, when I was a new general manager and I had three kids, I really was only doing the kids and work well and everything else fell by the wayside. But I'm at a different stage now. And now there is actually time for me and my husband sometimes. And so this is true on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, but it's also true over careers. Don't try to do everything perfectly all the time. It is not possible. But if you rotate, you know, you'll make a good life and a good career.

David Novak (61:24)

That's fantastic advice. Yeah. Hanukkah, I've enjoyed this so much. I appreciate your enthusiasm that you. You have for your business, your people, and just the future ahead. So thank you very much for taking the time to be with me.

Hanukkah Faber (61:39)

Thank you so much. I learned a few things, too. I loved it. Thank you.

Podcast Host (61:48)

David, I feel so honored to have just witnessed that conversation between you and Hanukkah because as I am looking at you through my computer right now, I am looking at through a Logitech camera on my computer.

David Novak (62:01)

I'm surprised, Kula, because I thought you would be playing some esports right now, and I thought you'd be late and I'd have to wait for you until the game was over. So thank you very much for being on time.

Podcast Host (62:11)

So wild that you actually have to train to be a great esports competitor. I mean, I kind of chuckled when she said that at first. Like, you have to train as much as, you know, Olympic athlete has to train. But, I mean, I guess you actually do.

David Novak (62:24)

I think that you ought to take it up because you might have a chance to be an elite athlete at that.

Podcast Host (62:30)

Is that my only chance at being an elite athlete?

David Novak (62:32)

It's your only chance. It's your only chance.

Podcast Host (62:35)

Well, David, I absolutely love this conversation between you and Hanukkah. And I'm excited to give our listeners some really practical takeaways that they can use and apply to their own leadership and to their own life. And I want to start by talking about sports. Hanukkah talked about in the episode about how she was a competitive diver, and that's how she ended up coming to the States because University of Houston offered her a full scholarship. And she talks a lot about the lessons that she learned through diving, how she could overcome her fears and things like that. And I want to get your perspective, David, on the role of sports in shaping leaders. Is there a story from when you played sports that had an impact in how you viewed leadership?

David Novak (63:17)

Well, you know, I came up as a child thinking that I was going to end up as a major league baseball player. And my dad was my fan, maybe in esports, you know. No, no, I'm talking about the real deal. But I lived in all these little small towns. I lived in these small towns of under a thousand people and. But my dad was my coach, and, you know, I could hit three home runs and make three great plays, and he'd talk about the ground ball that I lit get by me, you know, but he always raised the bar. So he kind of taught me this whole, you know, you know, have a healthy dissatisfaction with the status quo. You know, thank God I had my mother because she. She'd give me all kinds of accolades and tell me how great I was. My dad would bring me back, you know, and dad had a great way of. Of making me stay humble and hungry as. As Hanukkah really, really talked about. But I think my big learning was, is that, you know, once I moved to the big city, I moved to Kansas City. I realized I was not a superstar, I wasn't going to the major leagues, and I better get good at something else besides sports if I was going to be successful. So I actually became the sports editor of my newspaper. The editor of my newspaper really found a great desire to be more creative and learn how to write. And it took me to journalism and ultimately to advertising and ultimately to advertising and marketing, and somehow I ended up being a CEO. But I think the fact that I wasn't going to be a major leaguer, the fact that I wasn't going to be a superstar athlete and that I was now in this competitive realm where I realized that, you know, I could play, but I wasn't going to be at the top of the top. I think that gave me the drive to move beyond and find something else that I could be world class at. Not that I ever became world class at anything, but also cool. I thought it's very interesting that she is such a great athlete herself, you know, because, you know, I read recently in Fast company that 94% of women that are in C suite positions, okay, played competitive sports, and half of them did it while they were in college. So I think. I think the competitive drive that you pick up, that the ability to take the coaching and the feedback you need to get better. All of these things that Hanukkah talked about in her conversation with me, you know, I think, you know, help people that have played sports do well in the business world, because, frankly, you know, it's another hobby. If you love what you do, it becomes a hobby. Just like sports. You know, you're no longer playing football, you're no longer playing baseball like you used to or basketball or whatever. Now the game of life, the game of sport is business. And I think that's what sports does for you.

Podcast Host (66:11)

I love that you pointed out that you have to get good at accepting coaching and feedback from a young age if you grow up playing sports and if you continue to play sports at the collegiate or even professional level. And that feedback piece is something that I want to talk about next. David. I loved in the episode when Hanukkah talks about how she created the MVP VP of their strategy, and she actually circulated that Strategy to all 7,000 Logitech employees. She gave everybody 24 hours to view it and to come back and present to her. Three things I liked about it and three things that they didn't love about it. And I thought that was so interesting. You even said in the episode, you've never heard anybody do that. What stood out to you about that process, and how would you. What learning from that process would you take and teach other leaders?

David Novak (66:58)

Well, one of the things I always talk about is the importance of recognizing if you have no involvement, you have no commitment. And what really stood out to this process is that she got everybody in the company involved, or at least gave everybody in the company an opportunity to chime in. The other thing that I really liked was how she talked about. She wanted three things that people really appreciated and then three things that they could build on, not three things that were wrong, necessarily. And. And I like that because it's very similar to a coaching model that Larry Sin, you know, taught me. And Larry Sin was the father of culture, and. And taught me so much about how to lead and. And I mean, literally, Larry Sin was the father of culture. He's the guy that created the word when he was at Stanford. I mean, he. This guy, you know, and then he put together all these processes and. And games and tools that you could use to get better as a leader. But he said, when you're giving feedback, and I use this all the time, start out with, like, what do I appreciate about what you've just done? Okay, start out with appreciation, and then don't say, but you could be A lot better if you did this, say. And you could be even more effective if you thought about this or you did this or whatever. And. Because what happens, you know, when you. When I. People, I've. I've seen research on this, and I know it's true in my own case. You could get the most glowing review in the world, but you're always looking for the but, okay? And the but's the only thing that stands out, you know, And. But if you put that but in the context of and so that it's more positive and that this is how you can even elevate your game, I think that's powerful. So, you know, the advice always give to everybody is the advice I got. You know, start out with, what do I appreciate about what I just saw? And you can always find something, even if it's not that good. You can say, I appreciate the fact that you took the time to share it with me. Okay? But it sucked. No, just kidding. And it could be a lot better if you would have taken more time to make it this way or that way or whatever. Okay? But the buts of but's like an anvil that you drop on people, okay? I think the and is a powerful thing, and it's sort of like Jim Collins in his book Good to Great, he talks about the magic of the and, you know, be good at sales and driving profits. And I think that's kind of the same way you should give your feedback. Use that magic of the and.

Podcast Host (69:30)

It's so true. When you hear the word but, it just sucks the air out of the room and completely kills any positivity that you might have been feeling after receiving that. That glowing report.

David Novak (69:39)

What do they. They say it's a zapper or saps you or whatever it is, you know, but it doesn't. Doesn't elevate you. But the. The most important thing is, is you want to get feedback. The other thing that I appreciate about what Hanukkah says is don't wait until the annual review. She didn't say this, but she said when you. When you. You see somebody do something that you can help them with and give some feedback could be helpful, either, you know, positive or, you know, something that you could do better at, do it directly. Find a way to get that person off in the corner, off in their office, out in the hallway or whatever, and give them some that coaching, real time. And because I think real time helps you make improvement faster. I think that's the way you drive urgency in an organization. You provide Real time feedback, and you give real time direction.

Podcast Host (70:34)

It creates that forward momentum and really eliminates any sort of sense of feeling stagnant, too, because you're just constantly being able to be agile and move and adjust as you continue moving forward, trying to get done what you're trying to get done. David, that brings me to this final concept that I want to get your take on. In the episode, Hanukkah talks about how she tells her team that today is the second slowest day of the rest of your life. And really what she's getting at is it's things are never going to be as slow as they are right now. A year from now, where we are today is going to seem like light years ago. And I'm curious, as you think about creating that sense of urgency among your people, how do you do that in a way that doesn't burn people out?

David Novak (71:17)

Well, I think, first of all, you got to let everybody know that there's a reason for it. It's a competitive sense of urgency. You know, you've got to be have a sense of urgency to be competitive in today's world. And what Hanukkah is saying is, the world's not going to get any slower. It's only going to get faster. So, you know, I think you got to build the mindset in the organization that a competitive sense of urgency is something that we all have to have to protect what we have and grow what we have. And that's how you get to keep your job. You know, you don't get to keep your job by staying stagnant. You got to keep moving forward. You know, one thing I always did, Kula, was I always put things up in my office that reminded people what was really important. And, you know, mine were like, I had three things framed among many things besides all the people that I have framed in my office that I'd recognized. And one of them was this. The statement framed in bold type, what's new? Okay. Because, you know, what's new? You know, you got to innovate if you're going to win. The other one is, what's next? Okay, we might just had a great presentation, but, you know, what's next? And then I had win framed with a big question mark. Okay, when's it going to happen? You know, and, you know, I think that those things really, really drive action. You know, if you think about what's new, what's next, and when, when's it going to happen, and then you follow up on the win that drives the right Right. Kind of urgency. And I also remember Andy Pearson, who co founded Yum Brands with me. He was just a great, great leader, great friend of mine. You know, anytime anybody made a presentation, he would always say, so what? So what in the hell are you going to do about it? You know? And I think that drives. He had a great sense of urgency. What's the so what? Okay, you present all this data, all this stuff, all these charts look really great. So what? So what are you going to do? So what's it mean? And so what are you going to do about it? And I always thought about that and those terms as well.

Podcast Host (73:34)

You say a lot, David. Nobody wants to wake up and go be part of something mediocre. I think in addition to that, nobody wants to wake up and be part of something that's stagnant. People want momentum, they want progress, they want energy, they want inertia. And so I think the sense of urgency, it can be created, like you said, by defining it as that competitive sense of urgency, but it's also just kind of vital to a healthy living, active organization that's moving forward.

David Novak (74:00)

Yeah. And no matter how large your team is, remember this. Wipe out bureaucracy, declare war on it. Don't allow bureaucracy to creep in, because that's what just saps the hell out of everybody, is that when you get.

Hanukkah Faber (74:15)

You.

David Novak (74:15)

When you have to waste time on things that don't really matter. Oh, my God. You know, that, that, that is. That. That just. That takes everybody down. So, you know, that's all part of your environment. Okay. That you need to create the culture that you need to create as a leader of your team or your. Your company. And this is not something you need to start doing when you're a CEO. Start doing it right now. Okay. You know, you can do what's new, what's next, when. So what now what? You know, you can start having that mindset from the beginning. And anytime you see bureaucracy, bring it up. Let your boss know. Let who it. Let's, you know, let people know that this is a waste of time. And you know what? You're not going to be seen as a whiner. You're going to be seen as someone that really wants to do the right thing, and there's a way to do it. But I think that comes with what do you appreciate about what's right in your company? And here's how we could be more effective. Get rid of all this bureaucracy.

Podcast Host (75:13)

Yeah, exactly. Well, the folks who just listened to this episode with Hanukkah certainly have some really practical ways to not only declare war on bureaucracy, but create a healthy, thriving environment that's always moving forward and moving faster because, like she said, it's never going to get any slower.

David Novak (75:30)

And that's true, Kula. And you know what's really great is you can now go back to working on your esport athletic ability. And, you know, because golf, I can tell you, my friend, is not in your future.

Podcast Host (75:44)

That is such a burn. I probably deserved it, but maybe I should take up esports.

David Novak (75:52)

You're a good athlete.

Podcast Host (75:53)

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David Novak. And we will see you next week.