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How Leaders Lead with David Novak
#280: Blake Mycoskie, Founder, TOMS Shoes and ENOUGH – Stay connected to your why
01:05:14
Listen to this leadership podcast with Blake Mycoskie, Founder of TOMS and ENOUGH, and discover the power of connecting to your “why,” both for yourself and your team.
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host/Producer
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David Novak. Today's guest is Blake Mycosky. And you might remember Blake as the founder of TOMS Shoes, which is a brand that really helped redefine how people think about business and impact. Blake grew Toms Shoes to a $700 million business based on a simple idea. Sell a pair of shoes and give a pair of shoes away to a child in need. Now, that success didn't protect Blake from a seven year battle with depression. And after he sold toms, he really lost his sense of purpose and nearly lost himself. Today, Blake is back with a new mission. He's tackling the mental health crisis through his brand Enough, which seeks to empower people to talk about how they're really doing so that everyone in this world feels a little less alone and everybody knows that they are enough. For Blake, staying connected to your why is absolutely critical in business and it is essential in life. Enjoy this conversation between David and Blake and I will see you at the very end of the episode for the debrief.
- [01:13]
David Novak
Before we get into Tom's, you know, and what you're doing with Enough, both fantastic causes. You know, I want to take you, take you back a little bit. What's the story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today?
- [01:28]
Blake Mycosky
I mean, I think it really was just having amazing parents. You know, my dad was a doctor and a great leader in his community and the hospitals that he helped, you know, run. And my mom wrote a cookbook and sold millions of copies of it and helped people with their health. And I just think that I had such great role models with them growing up about wanting to do things to help people, that it really shaped who I became.
- [01:58]
David Novak
So when you were coming up as a kid, do you recall an experience where you really realized for the first time what leadership is all about?
- [02:06]
Blake Mycosky
I think actually in my first business, I had a laundry business. I would do pickup and delivery laundry on my college campus. And, you know, I think what I realized in that business was I had to do every single part of the business in order to be a good leader of the business. And that meant staying up all night doing people's laundry myself, not just picking up and delivering it. That meant learning about all the different, you know, chemicals used in dry cleaning so that I could talk to the customer with confidence. You know, I had to get my hands dirty, you know, no pun intended. And. And that's not what I set out to do originally. I was just going to pick up and deliver the laundry. And it wasn't until we got going that I realized I actually had to do the laundry to be able to manage the people that would ultimately do it every day.
- [02:55]
David Novak
Yeah, I learned a little bit about that business, and it's a great business. But you realized you really had to target the parents. That's a cool. That was. How'd you get that inside?
- [03:03]
Blake Mycosky
That's the best marketing story. So that's really. I mean, talking about marketing. So we launched the business, and we offered it to all the students at smu, where I went to college. And. And we hardly got any customers. And we were really kind of thought we were just kind of dead in the water with this idea. We didn't understand why, because we knew kids didn't like doing their laundry, but we couldn't get them to fork over the money for us to pick up and deliver it. Then the next year, we got a booth right at the orientation, and our booth was right next to where you bought the books, and I think right between where you got your meal plan. And so what happened was, by being there, by having that booth there, every parent assumed that every student signed up for laundry service because it was like, of course they're gathered by books, and of course they have to eat. So laundry's in the middle. Let's sign up for that, too. And literally went from having, like, no business to hundreds of thousands of dollars in laundry sales in one day. And that's when I dropped out of college and never went back.
- [04:04]
David Novak
Oh, my God. Well, that is such a great story. And now I know why you were staying up all night doing the laundry. That was a big start, you know?
- [04:12]
Blake Mycosky
Oh, ye. Yeah.
- [04:13]
David Novak
At what point, like, did you realize that you were really wired to start up things and create things?
- [04:19]
Blake Mycosky
You know, it was interesting. I remember going to bank of America to get my checking account set up for easy laundry. And I was 19 years old, and the guy said, man, you're a young entrepreneur. And I had no idea what that word meant. I mean, I never had heard it in my life. And so I literally went back, and this obviously dates me. I probably looked up in a dictionary, you know, the word entrepreneur. And I don't remember exactly the definition, but I was like, yeah, that sounds about, like me. And from that day on, my identity was, I'm an entrepreneur.
- [04:55]
David Novak
You know, I heard you say that, you know, when you're young and you start business and you started a few businesses even before you got to Tom's, you know, you said you got to fake it yeah, five companies. That's a lot of companies. That's a lot of ideas you have. But you said that, you know, when you're young and you're starting up these business, you have to fake it until you make it. Explain.
- [05:17]
Blake Mycosky
Sometimes you just gotta act the part. So when I was young, that meant putting a coat and tie on when traveling, you know, so I look a little older and looked like I was responsible enough to do business, you know, as I got older, you know, and that wasn't as big of a deal then. Oftentimes in business, you know, you've got to. You got to talk like as if it's already happened, you know, so it's. You got to talk about the customers, you know, whether you have them or not. And so I think sometimes, you know, it really is about living the part or faking it until you make it. I got that from my nan all by the way, she used to always say that to me and she was a big influence on my life. But I do think you got to kind of act the part, even if it hasn't been given to you yet. Yeah.
- [06:01]
David Novak
You know, I interviewed Tom Brady once and I. And he mentioned the same thing. So maybe he knew your. Your nano, you know. Now, speaking of acting and acting the part, I also understand that before Toms, you were a reality TV star. Tell us that story.
- [06:19]
Blake Mycosky
Yeah, so my sister and I were lucky enough to be selected to go on the Amazing Race. And the Amazing Race, for those who have not seen it, is basically a scavenger hunt around the world. We were on the season two and we raced around the world for 30 days straight. And after 30 days, we lost the million dollar prize by four minutes. And it was my fault.
- [06:42]
David Novak
What happened.
- [06:43]
Blake Mycosky
So it's this great, I mean, cbs. I mean, at this point, this show is like, I think the number two watched show on all of television. I mean, 22 million people a week were tuning in. So CBS did the most perfect editing job to make me and look like, you know, kind of your typical guy who won't stop and ask for directions. So what happens is we get to San Francisco, it's the final city. There's only three teams left, million dollars on the line. We've been racing for 29 days. And we get there and we get a clue and it says, go to Pier 31. Now, I had never been to San Francisco. My sister had never been. And I think pier piers are on the water. Let's get to the water. And so my sister says, hold on, wait, let's just get a map and let's really make sure we're going the right place because we can't afford to make a snake. I said, paige, piers are on the water. I see the water. Let's go to the water. And she said, okay, fine. So, of course, the way that San Francisco is mapped out, it's like this big kind of half circle of all these different piers. There's a lot of them. And so we run to the water. Well, we get to a pier, but we get to pier, like, two. And we're on the exact opposite side of the city where Pier 31 is. And we went the exact wrong way. We still hustled and hustled and hustled, and we still almost caught back up to win, but we lost by four minutes. If we had not made that mistake, we might have won by an hour.
- [08:03]
David Novak
Looking back at that, broadly speaking, how do you think that that shaped your leadership style, if at all?
- [08:10]
Blake Mycosky
You know, I think that. I mean, I've also. My dad. I mean, this is a funny saying my dad says about me. He says, Blake is often wrong, but never in doubt. I think I've learned this lesson the hard way several times. I'm hoping with. With enough, I'm moving with a little bit more wisdom and not being so impulsive because. Yeah. So my impulsivity, especially in business and even in my personal life, to be honest, has caused me some problems.
- [08:39]
David Novak
And we're going to get to enough in a few minutes here. But first of all, how'd you get the idea for toms?
- [08:45]
Blake Mycosky
So in toms, I was just traveling. I was down in South America. I was kind of in between entrepreneurial ventures, not really knowing what I was going to do next. And I did some volunteer work. And when I was doing some volunteer work, I saw all these kids that did not have shoes and that they needed them to go to school as part of the uniform requirement. And I thought, man, that's really sad that these kids don't get to go to school because they don't have a pair of shoes. And at the same time, I kept seeing all these farmers and young people around town wearing this shoe called the Albrigata, which is this very simple canvas shoe I'd never seen in the United States before. And they were very inexpensive to buy at the markets down there. And I thought, I wonder if I could sell these shoes in the US And. And every time I sell a pair, I would give a pair to one of these children that don't have shoes. And that Idea became toms.
- [09:41]
David Novak
Wow, that's, that's such a great insight. Again, you know, and, and, and early on, you know, and you, you mentioned you had five businesses before you started Tom's, which is, which is amazing. You know, what do you look for when you, you decide whether you really have an idea? I mean, what do you, what are you paying attention to, Blake?
- [09:59]
Blake Mycosky
I think the most important thing is that I like to have absolutely zero experience in the industry.
- [10:07]
David Novak
Tell me about that.
- [10:07]
Blake Mycosky
I mean, literally, I had never done laundry before hardly in my life. When I started my laundry business, you know, I didn't know anything about the outdoor advertising business. When I started my outdoor advertising company, I started my driver's ed company. I'd gone to driver's ed, but I sure didn't have any experience in, you know, what it takes to teach kids to drive. You know, TOMS is the same thing, the reality cable channel, the same thing. I mean, literally every business I've started, I've had no experience. And I think that is a huge asset. And the reason is because you don't know all the pre established rules of the industry. So it's easy to break them. It's easy to be innovative, it's easy to be courageous because you haven't been told, oh, this is the way you have to do it, you have to do it this way. And so, and I think that thinking is what limits a lot of, you know, a lot of innovation. I think that's what limits big companies. And, and that's why small startups, you see, totally upend big companies all the time. Because the big companies are stuck in their own way of thinking. And I think that's a big, big advantage to entrepreneurs. And I also think that's why most of the biggest, most breakthrough brands in the world are started people under 30 years old.
- [11:24]
David Novak
You know, I wrote this book called how leaders Learn. And I wish I would have interviewed you before I wrote it because I'm sure I could have gotten a chapter out of you. You know, so you don't know anything, but you gotta learn enough to get up to speed, really. And really, you know, break through in a category even if you're disrupting it. What's your process for really learning how to lead a business and a new category that you know nothing about?
- [11:48]
Blake Mycosky
I'd go with complete humility to whoever the best in the business is and ask them for a coffee or advice or a quick phone call. You know, I think that, you know, one of the best ways to learn is once you have an idea is to. Is to find out who are the real experts in the industry. But, you know, it's kind of after you have your idea. So your idea is built around innovation and not knowing the rules. But once you learn, once you're in it, and now you gotta be a good leader and you gotta really learn how to grow it. That's where I do think other people who've gone down that path before can be really helpful.
- [12:21]
David Novak
Your curiosity meter must be off the chart.
- [12:24]
Blake Mycosky
It is. So I didn't just look. I didn't graduate from college, as I shared earlier, and I think that's always been a little bit of a chip on my shoulder. And so I've always been wanting to be really well educated, even though I didn't go to college. So I read pretty much every single business biography you've ever heard of. I mean, that was my education. And I call those guys my mentors. I mean, I now know Richard Branson and have done a lot of stuff with him, but for years I had never met Richard and I still called him one of my mentors. Same with Yvonne Chouinard at Patagonia. So I don't think you actually have to know the person or meet them for them to be one of your mentors, especially with, you know, as much as you can learn about someone with podcasts and books and everything online.
- [13:02]
David Novak
That's. That's a great point. I want to go back to Tom's again. You know, tell me, tell me about the day things really broke open for Toms. You know, when did you know that you really had created a rocket ship of a business?
- [13:16]
Blake Mycosky
You know, I think two things happened and both of them involved the media. The first was is I. The first big press piece was in the LA Times, and it was a small article, but it was on the Sunday edition of the LA Times. And from that one article, we got 2,000 orders. Now, the problem with that, it was, is at that point I only had about 150 pairs in my apartment. So what that created was my first of many supply chain problems to come. But 2,000 orders from a single article that got my attention. The second thing is I was in the New York City airport once, and this is only kind of two months after we started, and I was not wearing Toms on this day and I was wearing my running shoes because I had gone for a jog in Central park before I had to get to the airport. And there was a girl at the check in counter of American Airlines wearing a red pair of Toms. Now, at this point, I had never seen a stranger wearing our shoes, right? And I was like, wow, this is so cool. Like, someone bought these shoes on their own. They're not my family, they're not my friend, and they're wearing them and I'm going to ask her about them. So I go up to her and I say, excuse me, I couldn't help but notice, I really love these red shoes you're wearing. What are they? And I'm doing the check in counter at American Airlines. And she goes, oh, they're Toms. Tom's shoes. And I'm like, oh, cool. And I keep doing the check in and she grabs my shoulder and. And she goes, no, you don't understand. And I was like, what? She goes, when I bought this pair of shoes, they gave a pair to a child in need. And I think Argentina or Africa. And. And this guy who started it, you know, I think I heard he lives on a sailboat in Los Angeles. And she keeps going and I'm like, oh, my God, this is crazy. I said, I said, okay, I gotta. I gotta confess, I'm. I'm actually that guy. I started Toms and she looked at me and she's like deer in headlights, right? She can't believe it's me. And she goes, oh, my gosh. She goes, but why did you cut your hair? That was the question. But the point of the story is, is that if a stranger in the airport was going to stop someone to tell them the whole story about this business and why they bought the shoes and everything about the founder, then clearly she was telling all her friends on Facebook back in the day. She's probably giving these shoes to friends and family. Like, I knew we had something that really was going to go viral.
- [15:37]
David Novak
That's interesting. You know, it's a great story. And when you see that word of mouth happening, man, that's when you know you've got something. But you know that laundromat business that you started, the laundry business, you know, you got these avalanche of orders, like almost overnight you had this huge Sensation. You have 2,000 orders of TOMS after that. You know, many businesses buckle and fold when they get under that kind of pressure to really provide what you've offered up. You know, what learning did you have on how to survive success? Because that's massive success. And if you don't handle it right, you're toast.
- [16:16]
Blake Mycosky
Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's a great question. I mean, I think I was a very competitive tennis player growing up, and I was very used to pressure and an individual sport where, you know, you've got to. There's no one else on the team to do it, you got to do it yourself. So I think I was a little bit prepared for this from a mental toughness standpoint of dealing with that success. But I think, you know, more than anything, you know, it's kind of focusing on, you know, what are the most important things that you absolutely must do. And I still do this today because I have so many things going on. You know, when something like that happens, like, okay, what are the most important things when we get 2000 orders and we only have 160 pairs of shoes? The most important thing is that we email every single one of those customers. We tell them, thank you so much for your order. And we had no idea that we would ever get this response. And it's going to take us eight weeks to make your shoes instead of the three days like it says on our website. And will you please not cancel your order? You come with humility, you come with honesty. You come. And with that, we didn't have a single person cancel their order. It took us another eight weeks to make those shoes. You know, when, when the laundry business, you know, when we got hundreds of thousands of dollars of orders, and at that point we had one truck and just me and my roommate as employees, I mean, then you just have to go into hustle mode, you know, because we have, we couldn't, couldn't not do their laundry next week. So that was just literally like a bunch of coffee, dropping out of college, asking favors, friends, you know, posting ads in the yellow pages. I mean, it was just pure hustle. So sometimes all you can do is just get, get your hustle on.
- [17:50]
David Novak
Yeah, great. And with Tom's, you had such a noble cause, you know, with, you know, with your one on one model. Every purchase was helping someone in need. What's your favorite story about making a positive difference in someone's life?
- [18:06]
Blake Mycosky
Oh, man. I mean, there's this one amazing story. I mean, there's so many. But there's this one that comes to mind, and that was this woman came to us crying after we gave shoes to her kids in this little village in Argentina. And she explained that now both of her kids would go to school every day. And when we asked her to explain, she showed us a pair of men's dress shoes, not even appropriate shoe for either of her boys to be wearing. And she said they had been sharing this pair of shoes for a year. And what that Meant was one of her boys would go to school wearing the men's dress shoes on Monday, and then he would bring them back and his son, brother would go to school on Tuesday while he stayed home. They were alternating days of school based off this pair of shoes that didn't fit either of them. And now they were going to go to school both days, every day, wearing the proper shoes. And that was just. I'll never forget that moment.
- [19:13]
David Novak
That's a story you'll never forget. You know, I've always believed, Blake, that creating shared experiences can really galvanize a team. And people could look back and say, I remember when we did this and that, or we learned this or that. You know, tell me about your shoe drops and the impact that had on your team.
- [19:34]
Blake Mycosky
Yeah, I mean, one of the great things that we got to do with our team and eventually even with our customers was take them to different places around the world and give shoes to these children. You know, I mean, we were giving millions of shoes away each year when the company was really growing. But it was more about those little moments of a specific kid that you remember and that you connected to. And so we would take. Our employees always got to go every year, no matter how big we got. I think Even we had 300 employees still, we paid for every employee to go in a developing country every year to give away shoes. You know, I went on a lot of these trips, and what it did is it brought back just an amazing sense of purpose, you know, as our shoe company is growing, I mean, Toms was the fastest growing shoe company in the world for three years. So, you know, we were growing rapidly, building a very big business. I mean, you know, our sales, I think, topped out at like $700 million a year. So this was a real shoe business that was growing quickly. And what kept us focused on the why, which is always so important. I mean, one of my favorite videos of all time is Simon Sinek's why video, which I'm sure you've seen and talks about. You know, people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. And we had to stay connected to the why. And the way we stayed connected to the why, the way I stayed connected to the why, is going on those giving trips, you know, putting shoes on kids feet. And, you know, it's a bit, you know, and I'm taking that lesson now. I know we're going to get to enough, but I'm using that lesson a lot with us building this enough movement because, you know, it's a lot of work, and everyone is really doing, you know, a single job of five people. And we have to keep connecting to the why of using this to hopefully help our collective mental health. So staying connected to the why is so, so important in galvanizing a team.
- [21:22]
David Novak
You know, I'm curious. Did you ever have people criticize your business or you personally claiming you were actually doing more harm than good in the places you're trying to help? I mean, I know that sounds like a strange question, but.
- [21:35]
Blake Mycosky
No, no, no, Absolutely. It happens.
- [21:37]
David Novak
You know, there are haters out there,
- [21:39]
Blake Mycosky
and even more so today probably than back then, because it's just easier to be anonymous online. But, yeah, we did. We had, you know, we had a time period in which, you know, people were really, like, attacking us for not making the shoes in every country that we're giving in. I mean, they clearly didn't understand the supply chain. And. And frankly, at first I was, like, offended by that. But we actually used some of that criticism to evolve our business, which actually ended up saving us money and helping in even more ways. And I'll use an example. We started making shoes in Ethiopia and in Haiti, where we gave away a lot of shoes. And by making the shoes there, not only were we creating extra jobs in those communities, but we didn't have to ship them all the way from Asia. And so we ended up saving money in our distribution as well. So sometimes, you know, if you don't take it personally, you can actually take some of that criticism and turn it into something for good. And we did that at Tom's.
- [22:35]
David Novak
Yeah. I don't know what. Where it says it in the Bible, but one of the things I remember was, you know, people accuse you of doing wrong when you do good, do good anyway.
- [22:43]
Blake Mycosky
Exactly.
- [22:44]
David Novak
And you actually took. Did the good and took the criticism and did even more good, which is a. Which is a great way to turn it on its ear. So, Blake, you. You. You build this Tom's business to $700 million. You know, you got a great business. Fastest growing shoe business. You know, looking back, what do you think were the top two or three strategic decisions you made to really. To. To really drive that business?
- [23:07]
Blake Mycosky
Number one is we did not do marketing. We just focused on amplifying everyone's stories. So we took our customers on giving trips in Cambodia and Guatemala and allowed them to, you know, put those photos on their Facebook and their MySpace and I mean, this was even before a lot of the social media. It worked probably even better today. But really focusing on storytelling and Giving and not traditional marketing, I think, was what allowed us to grow so fast and to grow so profitably. So I would say that was number one. Number two was. Is. You know, it wasn't until later, but in the early days when we were growing rapidly again, we were not a big group of experts. You know, these were a lot of young kids I hired off Craigslist, and they just had a passion for what we were doing, and they had a great attitude, and they would work harder than anyone. That culture really drove the growth of TOMS as well, because everyone there was in it for the right reason and really, really kind of committed to doing whatever it took. And we kept that culture good by taking people once again on the giving trips to keep them connected to the why. And then the other thing that I think we did especially well in the beginning and not so well towards the end was we just focused on one product, you know, one shoe. You know, just making that shoe the most iconic silhouette in the world at that time. And it. And then later, as we started to expand to more different types of shoes, while it initially helped sales grow, it ultimately, I think, took attention away from our core product, which ultimately ended up hurting the business.
- [24:45]
David Novak
You know, culture is very interesting. You know, I never really liked the word itself, although I understand it. You know, it reminds me too much of a germ when I think of culture. It's basically, what behaviors, you know, do you want to have as a team? How do we work together? You know, how are we going to work together? What do you think is the most important behavior you can drive when you're building any culture of a business that you would create?
- [25:10]
Blake Mycosky
I think it goes back to that shared why, like bringing people in that are there for the right reasons. You know, they're not there because this is the next best thing on their resume. They're not there because it's all about the money. They're not there because, you know, this is the hot company and, you know, whatever. Like, it's. They're there because they really believe in the mission, and the company has a mission that is worth believing in. And I think that is, at least in the businesses I've started. Really, having people connected and there for the why, I think is great. And then the other thing, as a leader, I think it's like, not take yourself too seriously. Always be humble, Always be curious. You know, create the least amount of kind of, you know, kind of hierarchical structure as possible. I mean, those are just the things that have really worked for me.
- [26:05]
Podcast Host/Producer
Hello, friends. I hope you are loving this conversation between David and Blake. Be sure to stay tuned to the very end of the episode where David and I break down his conversation with Blake and offer some real, tangible ways that you can take what you've learned from the episode and apply it to your leadership and to your life. Stay tuned to the very end, and I will see you soon.
- [26:26]
David Novak
You know, eventually you took TOMS away from the one on one model, but. But you've also used that one on one model and in other categories. How do you make that decision like you did in your eyewear business? Right?
- [26:39]
Blake Mycosky
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's really a simple decision. I mean, I started TOMS not as a business. It was actually just called a project. And the project was based on. I wanted to help kids get shoes. And then as I grew the business, I realized, oh, wow, this, this One for one model is actually like, really works because it's easy to understand. It's, it's, you know, we can build the cost of it into the, into the product. You know, people love the directness of it. And so, yes, when we did, we launched Tom's Eyewear, and, and we did the same thing. We provided an eye surgery or reading glasses to someone who needed them when you bought the eyewear. So I think the one for one model really worked well. It doesn't work in all businesses, but it worked really well for toms.
- [27:22]
David Novak
But how'd you get the courage to pivot from the very thing that you were known for? Because you stopped it at Tom's.
- [27:29]
Blake Mycosky
No, that's. I didn't stop it. When I sold the company, they stopped it.
- [27:33]
David Novak
Oh, okay.
- [27:34]
Blake Mycosky
Yeah, that's a very important distinction there.
- [27:35]
David Novak
Thank you very much for clarifying that.
- [27:37]
Blake Mycosky
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [27:38]
David Novak
Well, what'd you think? Here you are the founder of this. When you heard that.
- [27:41]
Blake Mycosky
Yeah, I was not happy. Yeah, I was not happy.
- [27:46]
David Novak
I imagine you weren't. Were really consulted on that, that, that issue?
- [27:51]
Blake Mycosky
No, I was not.
- [27:53]
David Novak
Well, how'd you deal with that?
- [27:55]
Blake Mycosky
I mean, you know, I mean, it's kind of like, look, you know, I have an 8 and 11 year old right now, and I'm doing everything I can to make them into most amazing human beings possible. And someday they're going to leave my house and they're going to go out, they're going to make their own decisions and, and, you know, I'm going to love them no matter what. And some decisions they'll make I'll agree with, and some I won't agree with, but I'll continue to be their cheerleader. And that's what I always say about Tom's. You know, I'm Tom's biggest cheerleader. I think the company is still doing great work. They're doing it differently. They're not doing it with the One for One model that I created, but they're still doing a lot of good in the world. And so I'm cheering them on.
- [28:31]
David Novak
So, you know, you sell this. This huge business, you know, that's most time when people take the victory lap. You go on the big cruise, you do something. I mean, how did it impact you? I mean, as an individual having that kind of success and then selling what you. Basically, it was your baby.
- [28:51]
Blake Mycosky
The reality is I didn't do very well. First off, I was not prepared for it. I didn't understand that when I sold it, I would really lose a sense of purpose. I also lost my community because all my friends still worked at toms. I also decided at the same time to move to Jackson Hole because I love snowboarding. And I thought, now that I'm, quote, retired, I can snowboard every day. And it gets dark at 5pm in Jackson Hole half the year. And that wasn't good for me. And I started to get depressed. And I'd never been a depressed, you know, really a day in my life. And I actually think the depression started a little bit before I sold the company. I think that kind of led to me, you know, not feeling as connected to the brand that led to it. But, yeah, you know, and then after I got depressed, what was interesting is, and I think this isn't probably just, you know, unique to me is I was. I never had these horrible feelings. And I tried to do everything I could to make them go away. And I had a lot of money, so I started throwing money at it. So I built this crazy house. You know, I went on all the crazy trips. I moved my family from Jackson Hole to Costa Rica. You know, I got divorced. I got married. I got divorced again. Like, I made a huge mess of my life because I was doing anything to, frankly, not feel the way that I was feeling. What I really recognized was underneath all of it, and this is what I, you know, came to after lots of therapy, was that there was this feeling that I have never been enough and that I was never enough. And I unfortunately had to look at all of my actions in my life. And I saw that my life wasn't as much a success story as my life was, like a strategy. And the strategy was doing all these things to earn my worth because I didn't believe that I had it intrinsically. And that started what became like a seven year period of a really intense depression.
- [30:48]
David Novak
Wow. You think that, that, that not that sense of not having enough is what was one of the key drivers of your success in business? I mean, you mentioned that your college lack of a college education put the. Had a chip on your shoulder. I mean, you know, how much did that drive you?
- [31:05]
Blake Mycosky
I, I do think, I do think it drove me and at the same time I don't think it was necessary for my success. I think that, you know, as I've learned more about, you know, me struggling with this for so long is, I think that it does create a pressure that can drive you, but it also is at a huge cost. And I think the reality is now, as I think about building something, where I'm building it from a place of wholeness, I'm actually having a lot more fun and I think I'm being just as effective. So I think it is a little bit of a misnomer about the fact that you kind of need that drive in order to be successful. Yes, you need drive, but that level of pressure I was putting on myself just wasn't healthy.
- [31:48]
David Novak
You know, what advice would you give to other leaders on how to pick up the signs maybe that you, you're starting to have some, you know, mental health issues and you know, who might be quietly struggling inside but just aren't really dealing with it?
- [32:06]
Blake Mycosky
Yeah, I think that there's some pretty telltale signs. I mean, number one is I think the things that you used to love and that you used to have joy just aren't providing that to you anymore. So that could be golf, if you're a golfer. Surfing, that was it for me. You know, time with friends, you know, even going to your favorite restaurants. Like if just if all this, if not all of a sudden. But if you start to feel the things that depend consistently gave you joy and happiness are no longer doing so, that might be a sign that you're starting to slip into a depression. You know, for some people, it's either they stop eating completely or they overeat all the time. You know, it's usually one or the other. You know, I didn't have as much of an appetite myself. And then also the biggest thing is, and this is what unfortunately leads to, you know, these, these horrible, you know, rates of suicide in our country is you really isolate, you know, because you're ashamed, especially if you're successful. I mean, I'm So excited to talk about this on this podcast because I know that there's going to be a lot of successful men and women listening. And the thing is, is we're taught to believe that if you're financially successful, if you're a leader, then. Then what do you have to worry about in your life? If you've got a great house, great family, great job, like, you don't get the right to feel depressed. You don't get the right to feel anxious. And I felt that in so much that, like, I didn't even post a single post on. On social media for three years because I was so ashamed of the way I was feeling, and I didn't want anyone to know, and I didn't want to lie about it. I couldn't go. That's even worse when you have to go put on the fake smile. And so I just isolated more and more and more. And frankly, that almost, you know, led me to taking my life.
- [33:44]
David Novak
Wow. Thanks so much for sharing that, Blake. I mean, I think that's helpful.
- [33:48]
Blake Mycosky
It's just so many people. And if you're listening to this right now, the most important thing, if you're starting to feel like you're getting really depressed or you're feeling trapped or life is just not, you know, you've got to talk to someone. You. Absolutely. The most important thing is tell one person and be radically honest. Tell them how bad it is. If you're having suicidal thoughts, tell them. Tell you exactly what you're having, when you're having it, how you're having it. Because the minute you start telling people, the research shows is a dramatic improvement in what potentially, you know, is the outcome in your mental health. So I was really lucky. I started talking to people. I started being honest about it, to my close friends and family. Family. And ultimately, I got the help that, you know, not only, you know, helped me really understand why I was feeling the way I was feeling, but start to feel better. And that ultimately led to, you know, to what I'm doing now.
- [34:39]
David Novak
And speaking of now, you've recently launched a new brand. Enough. How'd that come to be?
- [34:46]
Blake Mycosky
I mean, you know, it's. It's a little bit about what we were talking about, you know, as I started working with an amazing therapist who really helped me understand that underneath my depression was this feeling that I was never enough. And as we started to really uncover that and heal that, I realized, well, first off, I started feeling, like, more peace and joy in my life than I'd ever felt. And I really Started to feel it in my body, and I was like, man, there's a lot of people out there that don't feel that they're enough. Now, everything from, you know, high school students that are constantly comparing themselves to everyone else, you know, at school or on social media, to executives running big companies, I mean, it is it. No one is immune to this, what I call the greatest lie we've ever been told. I know, and you talked about the Bible before. Like, I mean, this is also just like, one of the key messages is that we are all enough in God's image, and unfortunately, our society and our media does everything it can to tell us otherwise. And that's why I say it's greatest lie. And so as I started to really heal this and recognize that this wasn't a Blake problem, this was a cultural problem, I, you know, felt called to do something about it. And so when I was. When I was going through my healing journey, I made a bracelet for myself. I'll show you right here for those who are watching. Yeah, it says enough on. It's a green bracelet. It's green because green is the color of mental health awareness. And I made this bracelet for myself just to wear it for a daily reminder, like, Blake, remember, you are enough. And then the real magic came when I gave it to others, when I gave it to someone and said, hey, I just want you to know that you're enough and you always have been. And I saw how that lit people up and how they felt, like, a sense of relief to hear that from someone else. And so I realized that, you know, this bracelet can do two things. It's not only a daily reminder for myself. It's a great way to start and continue to have conversations about our collective mental health. And that, I think, is one of the most important things that we can do, especially as parents. Like when I give these bracelets to my 8 and 11 year old and explained and was honest about the fact that for a lot of my life, I didn't feel like I was enough. And if there's anything that I ever want them to know from me is that they are enough. Whether they make the right grades, whether they make the sports team, no matter what, they are just enough because they are, wow, what a great way I've connected with my kids. And I've seen now other parents and even kids giving them to their parents. I mean, it's just really amazing. But the point of the whole project is twofold. One, to raise aware awareness about mental health and to remind all of us culturally that we are enough. And the second thing is we're raising a lot of money for mental health organizations. So I'm really grateful and thankful that I made a lot of money with Toms and I don't need to make any more money. And so 100% of the profits from all the bracelet sales go to mental health organizations that are really working with people on the front lines who are struggling. And it's really, really fun. I mean, I'm having. We have a small team. There's like eight or nine of us now. We launched a couple weeks ago, but we're already selling tons of bracelets. And I'm seeing people on the street wearing them, and people are posting on social media. Our Instagram is @wearenough and. And I think this has the potential to do hopefully, like, what the Livestrong bracelet did for cancer research. You know, the yellow bracelet that so many people around the world wore years ago. If we can get everyone wearing this green enough bracelet, I think we can raise tens of millions of dollars for mental health. And most importantly, get people talking, because when you're wearing the bracelet, it's a signal to someone else, like, hey, you can tell me how you're really doing. Like, I'm comfortable with that, and I'm actually inviting you to tell me that. And when people share how they're really doing, all the statistics say their mental health greatly improves.
- [38:33]
David Novak
Now I'm going to get some bracelets right. You know, right after this. I love it. I think it's just fantastic.
- [38:38]
Blake Mycosky
And the nice thing is it comes. I'll show you this. It comes in this box here. But it's not just one bracelet when you buy it. Going back to the one for one model, we have two bracelets, one for you and one to give to someone else. So everyone who buys a bracelet is also making the commitment to give it to at least one more person, starting this enough giving chain that hopefully will go on and on and on.
- [38:59]
David Novak
Hey, you're an incredible person. You know, what are you doing differently this time? Any. Any other project that you've been a part of?
- [39:06]
Blake Mycosky
I'm so glad he asked that. So one of the things that I. One of my daily mantras, and I think this is a great one for all leaders, is focus more on connection than promotion. I'm not selling anything right now. You know what? I am just sharing my story. I'm connecting with people about their mental health, about my mental health. I'm being radically vulnerable, radically honest. And in doing that, the Sales will take care of themselves. I do not need to be out promoting. I just need to focus on connecting. And every single day, that's what I'm focused on.
- [39:41]
David Novak
That's great. You know, you're obviously a very emotional person.
- [39:44]
Blake Mycosky
Yes.
- [39:44]
David Novak
You know, I mean, you know, some
- [39:46]
Blake Mycosky
of my ex wives would say too much.
- [39:47]
David Novak
Yeah, but you're, you're emotive. There's no question. You get moved. I'm sure you laugh a lot, you cry a lot.
- [39:53]
Blake Mycosky
I do.
- [39:54]
David Novak
You, you, you have the gamut of, of the emotions, you know.
- [39:57]
Blake Mycosky
I do.
- [39:58]
David Novak
In a world where, you know, AI is taking on more and more influence, how do you think about AI and are you using it in any way with, with your, with your brand?
- [40:11]
Blake Mycosky
So I am also one of the things I'm doing, and I think a lot of leaders do, is we try to find other young entrepreneurs to mentor and to advise and to coach. And so I had the great joy of coaching some entrepreneurs who've started a company called Sonia S O N I A AI and it is the first and I think the most incredible AI therapy. Bottom and so it's AI therapy. They call it emotional support, I think for legal reasons. But this app you, it's at. It's in beta right now. It's absolutely free. Every single person on the planet should try this at least for 45 minutes. I've been in therapy my entire life. And so I know a good therapist and this AI therapist that they've created. And you can customize it. Man, woman, different voices. I talked to this thing for 30 minutes every morning. It is unbelievable. And it has memory, so it never forgets anything. So it will reference things from a month or two ago. How are you doing on this? Checks in on that. It can hold all my craziness in its head somehow. And it is, literally. And the great thing about it is this is one of the hardest things about therapy and especially for leaders and busy people is it's really hard to schedule with your therapist. Like, okay, you gotta do a zoom call with your therapist Thursday at 2. Well, you know what? I don't wake up with an anxiety attack on Thursday at 2. I wake up with an anxiety attack at 5 in the morning on Monday, you know, and so it's right there. So it's always there when you need it. You don't have to do a whole hour like you do with a normal therapist. You might just do 10 minutes. But yeah, I use Sonya every day. And I'm having so much fun mentoring these founders. I mean, they are 26 years old. MIT, like, just charging. And they only care about changing the world and providing this to people who can't afford traditional therapy.
- [42:02]
David Novak
Right, and that's nonprofit, too?
- [42:05]
Blake Mycosky
No, it's a for profit. I think these guys are okay. These guys are gonna do very well now.
- [42:11]
David Novak
Sonia's in beta.
- [42:12]
Blake Mycosky
Anyone can do it. Yeah. On the. It's in the App Store. Yeah, it's the Sonia, Sonia, AI in the App Store. And anyone can do it. My dad's doing it now. My best friends are doing it. I mean, everyone I've introduced it to love it. I'm batting a thousand with this recommendation.
- [42:30]
David Novak
And it's a lot cheaper, a lot cheaper, I imagine, than the therapist.
- [42:34]
Blake Mycosky
Well, right now, Right now it's free. I think eventually they're going to start charging like 30 bucks a month, but right now it's free. And so it's incredible.
- [42:42]
David Novak
I mean, all right, okay.
- [42:43]
Blake Mycosky
I think that's my AI experience. It's just. And I don't have a lot, but, man, when I saw what this could do, and then when I. When I started using it myself every day, I was just like, I gotta help these guys because I think this could, you know, this would really have a huge impact in the world.
- [42:57]
David Novak
Well, you're a huge, huge learner. We've, you know, we've established that already. So do you see AI really impacting the way you lead or changing how you do things?
- [43:08]
Blake Mycosky
I think one of the things that's nice about AI is let's say you have an important decision to make, and especially as a leader or a founder, now you have your board, but they're not always that accessible. Right. And sometimes you can't really bounce certain ideas off your executive team because, you know, everyone's going to have a personal agenda. What I found with AI is I will talk to it and say, hey, put, put. This is one of my favorite prompts I use. I say, if money was no object, find the three greatest experts and helping me make this decision. And so AI will go through and I'll tell them what the decision is I need to make as a leader, and it'll find, da, da, da, da. And then it gets the three experts and say, okay, now let's have a roundtable discussion with me on the best path forward for this decision. And we will have a discussion as rich as any board meeting I've ever been to. And I don't have to involve anyone but my computer. And I can do it in my pajamas at five in the morning before I make the decision. And so I use that all the time that way.
- [44:10]
David Novak
That's great. That's great. I tell you, like, this has been so much fun, and I want to have some more of my lightning round of questions now. You ready for this?
- [44:16]
Blake Mycosky
I'm ready, yeah.
- [44:17]
David Novak
What three words best describe you?
- [44:19]
Blake Mycosky
Optimistic, authentic and fun.
- [44:22]
David Novak
If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?
- [44:26]
Blake Mycosky
Jesus.
- [44:27]
David Novak
What's your biggest pet peeve?
- [44:28]
Blake Mycosky
Negative people.
- [44:29]
David Novak
Who would play you in a movie?
- [44:31]
Blake Mycosky
Matt Damon.
- [44:32]
David Novak
What's something you're grateful for today?
- [44:34]
Blake Mycosky
My family.
- [44:34]
David Novak
Who's been your favorite playing partner competing in the AT&T over the years.
- [44:39]
Blake Mycosky
Oh, that's such a tough one. I have so many good partners. Oh, man, I can't answer that question. I. I would. I would. I would hurt someone's feelings.
- [44:48]
David Novak
How. How many times you make the cut?
- [44:50]
Blake Mycosky
Oh, that's a good one. I made the cut five out of 10 years, and I got second twice. And I think I'm the only player in the history of the tournament to get second twice.
- [45:01]
David Novak
So you're not on the rock?
- [45:03]
Blake Mycosky
I'm not on the rock.
- [45:05]
David Novak
What's something you've been curious about lately that has absolutely nothing to do with work?
- [45:09]
Blake Mycosky
I've really been curious about 3D printing because my kids are obsessed with it.
- [45:14]
David Novak
What's the one thing you do just for you?
- [45:17]
Blake Mycosky
Surfing. Surfing.
- [45:19]
David Novak
Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession?
- [45:22]
Blake Mycosky
My most. I really. It's such a great question because I'm not someone that holds on to possessions very tightly. So I'm, like, looking around my house and I'm trying to decide. I'm going to say my. Enough bracelet.
- [45:36]
David Novak
Now, if I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?
- [45:41]
Blake Mycosky
You would hear whatever my kids want to play.
- [45:45]
David Novak
What's something about you few people would know?
- [45:48]
Blake Mycosky
I don't know. I don't like scary movies.
- [45:51]
David Novak
What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss?
- [45:55]
Blake Mycosky
Never miss. I drink this thing called morning water every single morning. And it. It is the best start to my day.
- [46:02]
David Novak
Awesome. Awesome. That was a very good lightning round. I enjoyed that very much. We're out of it. Just a few more questions. I'll let you go here. You know, you mentioned you'd been divorced a couple times, you know, and now you're happily married.
- [46:16]
Blake Mycosky
No, no. Not married.
- [46:17]
David Novak
You're not married.
- [46:18]
Blake Mycosky
I'm Annapolis happy.
- [46:19]
David Novak
That's why you're so happy, man. No, no, no.
- [46:21]
Blake Mycosky
I'm in a. I'm in a very great relationship. And have a very amazing partner, but I am not married.
- [46:29]
David Novak
So. How long have you been with her?
- [46:31]
Blake Mycosky
About a year.
- [46:32]
David Novak
About a year. All right, great. Well, that's fantastic. I was going to ask you what really drives a long term partnership, but I'm going to lose that one.
- [46:40]
Blake Mycosky
Yeah, I don't. I don't think this interview should have marital advice questions.
- [46:45]
David Novak
All right, there we go.
- [46:46]
Blake Mycosky
Pretty much any other topic. I feel comfortable.
- [46:49]
David Novak
You're a dad with two young kids. You know, how do you lead at home, Blake?
- [46:53]
Blake Mycosky
I think that, you know, I try to really inspire my kids to be curious. I try to ask really good questions. I involve them in what I'm doing when I'm not with them so they really understand what lights me up. And I really encourage them to follow their passions. Whatever, you know, whatever that is, you know.
- [47:15]
David Novak
What do you see as your unfinished business?
- [47:17]
Blake Mycosky
I see my unfinished businesses is really affecting the world's mental health. Like, I really believe that the second half of my life is going to be completely focused on helping us as a society really reverse all these horrible trends in mental illness and suicide. And I really believe I can.
- [47:38]
David Novak
And what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?
- [47:44]
Blake Mycosky
Business is personal. You know, I hate that saying when they say it's not personal, it's business, I think that's bullshit. I think business is the most personal, intimate thing you will ever do. And the more intimate you are, the more open you are, the more you lead with your heart, the better leader you'll be.
- [47:59]
David Novak
Yeah. You know, Blake, this has really been a fascinating conversation. And, you know, it's rare when you meet someone who has the. The business capacity you have, but also has the loving capacity you have. I mean, I think love drives you a lot, you know, and, you know, how important do you think that is, Blake, in terms of just. Just who you are and how you do things?
- [48:26]
Blake Mycosky
I mean, it's just. It's just how I live, you know, it's. It's. I mean, here I have a tattoo. I'll show you. It says, let's see if I can sit here. It's a heart for those who are not watching. And it says, whatever the question, love is the answer. And I just think that, you know, it's the most important ingredient to a. To a full life, to success, to meaning. It all goes back to just, how do we love better?
- [48:53]
David Novak
Yeah, that's like. I don't know what, what it was in me that asked that question, but I had no idea you had that tattoo.
- [48:59]
Blake Mycosky
But.
- [49:00]
David Novak
But I do have you, right? And you're one hell of a leader. And I'm going to ask you one more question before we go here, because I forgot to ask this one. You're going to be a podcaster yourself.
- [49:11]
Blake Mycosky
Yes. Yes.
- [49:12]
David Novak
And you've got a podcast called no Magic Pill. It's going to be launched in May. Tell us about it.
- [49:20]
Blake Mycosky
Yeah, I mean, this is like, my favorite thing I'm doing these days. I love building enough and the team and out promoting and, you know, getting people excited. But. But. But this podcast, no Magic Pill, is just. It came from just a deep passion to help others who might be suffering. You know, when I was really suffering, I couldn't find something to listen to every week that would give me ideas on how I could potentially get out of it or, you know, give me encouragement. So no Magic Pill is all about, you know, the path to mental wellness. There is no magic pill. There is no one way. I mean, I tried everything to feel better. And so every week I have different people on who share their mental health journeys. You know, I was just with Kevin Love, great basketball player, last week, you know, and then I had Michael Pollan, you know, a great writer and author about, you know, psychedelics and mental health and, you know, and really everyone in between. But we all need that encouragement. But more importantly, we need the tools and the resources when we might be stuck, when we might be struggling, might not know where to turn, and hopefully no Magic Pill will be that place for people. I have just so enjoyed doing these interviews and the season launch on my on May 5th.
- [50:30]
David Novak
You know, it's interesting, you know, with TOMS, you and your other businesses, you improve lives. You know, with this business, you're going to save a lot of lives. I think so, and I think it's great. And, you know, I've learned a lot by listening to you and appreciate all you're doing. So thank you for being on the show.
- [50:48]
Blake Mycosky
Thank you, David.
- [50:55]
Podcast Host/Producer
David. This conversation with Blake is such an important one that leaders everywhere need to be having with themselves and with the people that they lead. I'm so impressed with his willingness to just be open about the real struggles that he's faced over the course of his life and success. And it gives people permission to also say that they're struggling as well. And I'm just so grateful that we had him on the show and that he was so open about what he's been going through and just normalizes it for any leader that has experienced that Level of success.
- [51:26]
David Novak
You know, I think Blake really just absolutely nailed the importance of being open, being vulnerable, and just sharing. And I loved how he talked about how he got in the dumps, even to the point where he even thought about taking his life because he lost his. His. Why? You know, he sold toms. He no longer had purpose. He had all kinds of money. You know, the Bible says money can be the root of all evils. Well, it became that for him. He lost his marriage. He just chased a lot of things that, that didn't make a lot of sense. And it took him down this rat hole that he had a hard time getting out of until he really got therapy. And, you know, it was very interesting that that therapy and that self discovery has led him into a new career, a new brand that he's creating enough where basically, you know, every one of us has been made in God's image. And God has given us enough to, to. To deal with life wherever it might take us. And he's taken his one for one model and you can order these enough bracelets and then get one for yourself and give it to another person. And now he's back on his game and he's living life the way he wants to live life. And he still has issues he has to deal with, but he's doing it by helping other people. And the fact that he could come out and be so open about his problems, I think really says to every leader that, you know, you gotta, you gotta take care of yourself. You gotta hear what's those thoughts that you have and what's in your mind. And you gotta make yourself healthy so you can build a healthy organization and have a healthy life. And, you know, I really admire him for doing that. And by the way, I went online, ordered the enough bracelets and within this, I love this because you can write a letter to somebody telling them that they're enough. So I sent a letter and the bracelet to both of my granddaughters telling them why they were so special, all the talents that they have, why they have enough to deal with whatever. And you know, in this world where social media can take you this way and that way, you know, it was really a wonderful gift for me personally to give it to them, and they really, really appreciate it. And the good news for them is they're both, you know, very happy and, and go lucky kids and, you know, feeling great about school and their friends. But I think even then in situations like that, when you, when you on the outside, you have it all, everybody struggles, everybody thinks about what we don't have, and. And to have a brand built on helping us understand that we all have enough, I. I love it. So hats off to Blake, and, you know, I wish him all the best in that. That endeavor.
- [54:31]
Podcast Host/Producer
I love it, too. You know, David, in that same vein, I'm curious your take on this. What can leaders everywhere do to make that conversation a normal conversation to have in a work environment first?
- [54:43]
David Novak
I don't know that it ever could be in a normal conversation. You know, I think this is something where you have to dig down personally and figure out what you want to share, what you don't want to share. But one of the things I think leaders can do is be vulnerable and talk about the things that they're dealing with, the times when they didn't really measure up to their own expectations. And when you talk about how you're not necessarily perfect, which is very easy for me to do. Okay. You know, that makes others know that they don't have to be perfect as well. So I think the leader has to open themselves up first, and that gives permission to others to do it. Then I also think the leader has to be highly empathetic. A really good leader is very observant. And you see when people are down, you see when people are struggling, and that's when you go into their office and say, hey, how you doing? You know, you don't just seem like your normal self. Is there anything I can do to help? But more importantly, you just listen. How you doing? And listen. Keep your mouth shut and listen. I think when you do that, you learn where people are at, and then you can help them move on. Either yourself or you can get them help, but you just let people know you're there for them. That's the most important thing. And, you know, I always use this line I wish I would have come up with myself, you know, Sam Walton, use the line, nobody will care about you until you show them that you care about them. And that's what I think leaders do. That's what leaders should do anyway.
- [56:15]
Podcast Host/Producer
I love that. That is at the heart of really every decision that leaders should make, not only in the context of mental health and checking in with people, but really in creating culture as well. This idea of making everybody realize that their contribution matters and that they matter is really paramount to creating healthy work environment anywhere.
- [56:36]
David Novak
Yeah, absolutely. We've said this before. People leave for two reasons. They don't feel appreciated for what they do, and they don't get along with their boss. So those things are intertwined and, you know, I think, you know, having a coaching mentality where you appreciate people for what they do is set you apart. And what a lot of research says. Today, 80% of people say they work in toxic work environments. I mean, that's why we're doing this podcast. I mean, we have our noble cost too. We. We want to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. If. If you're listening out there and you can pick up one or two things that help you be a better person, create a better environment for, create a better culture, get results the right way, man. We're making a difference not only in your life, but we're making a difference in the people that you have the privilege of leading.
- [57:24]
Podcast Host/Producer
Absolutely, David. That's a great segue into the next concept that I want to break down with you. Blake talks a lot in the episode about purpose and how his team at TOM stayed connected to the why of their business. He mentioned doing the shoe drop trips where he would take his team and eventually some of his customers to deliver the shoes to the people in need. And now that same sense of purpose is really driving everything that he's doing with Enough. David, how do you suggest that leaders stay connected to their why when their business model is not necessarily the one to one model like a TOMS is?
- [57:57]
David Novak
Yeah, well, I think what Blake did with his team is he created shared experiences, you know, that connect you to the why. You know, for me, it was going on bus trips, you know, with my team and listening to customers talk about our brands and other brands. And what were we in business to do? Make our customers happy, put a yum on their faces and figure out how to do that. And, you know, by listening to customers together, that connected us to the why. You know, Blake would take his team to these countries where kids didn't have shoes, and he'd have his team members would put the shoes on the kids, and it was an emotional experience that brought everybody to the Y. That was a shared experience, you know, for. For me, at Yum Brands, we wanted to be the defining global company that feeds the world. We wanted to feed people our products all around the world, make it affordable for people all around the world. So, you know, we wanted to make our brands vibrant wherever we do business. And. And we wanted to create a recognition culture that we would become famous and other people would want to emulate, and we wanted to feed people who couldn't afford our food. And so we made, you know, feeding the hungry our noble cause, feeding the poor noble cause. So that's why we tied in with the World Food Program. And what we did there is we go to Guatemala and Costa Rica and Haiti, and we go there with United Nations Food Food Program and. And, you know, give people the food and be there to see the need that was out there. And these are people who could never even afford to go into a Taco Bell, you know, and, you know, we had the number one value rating in the world, but, you know, people couldn't afford to go into Taco Bell. And. But, you know, that created a shared experience that we talked about. And, you know, creating shared experiences across those. Those. Those aspects of. Of your business are important, like building vibrant brands. I always shared what was going on when I saw people doing great jobs build, making our brands loved and valued around the world. I would send out emails and pictures of what I was seeing. You know, our recognition culture. We.
- [60:15]
Blake Mycosky
We.
- [60:16]
David Novak
I always shared all the recognition that was happening all around the world. And, you know, that's how you. That shared experience is how you really get people connected to your.
- [60:28]
Blake Mycosky
Why?
- [60:28]
Podcast Host/Producer
Well, Blake is obviously a wildly entrepreneurial leader, and it was so interesting in the episode when he talked about all the businesses that he had started even before Tom's. You asked him what one of his key learnings about being a successful entrepreneur was, and his answer was really interesting. He said that the number one thing that he accredits most of his success to is that he went into every business as an industry outside. He says that's a big part of what helped him stay innovative as he started all these businesses. And I'm curious what your take on that is. I mean, is being inexperienced in an industry an advantage?
- [61:03]
David Novak
Yeah, I think what he's really saying is that he didn't know anything about these businesses he went into. He went into laundry service for college students, billboard company, driver's ed, you know, the shoe company. In every case, he didn't know anything about the category. And what that forced him to do, though, was to have a curious mind. You know, many people talk about how you need to look at your business like a child would go into your store and look at it like you're a kid with wonderment and just see it from a fresh perspective. And that's what he's getting at. And if you don't know something about a category, you have a much easier or much more likely way to disrupt it because you're not tied into conventional thinking. So he would look at things from the outside and say, hey, why don't we do this? And then he changed the name of the game and having those fresh eyes is what he's really talking about that. The other thing is that he didn't know anything about shoes, but he is a voracious learner. He combined this curiosity that gave him a freshness when he looked at the category with building the know how it would take to be successful. So he learned how to make shoes, he learned how to do the laundry. He learned how to, you know, have a billboard company. He learned how to get into driver's ed and really make a difference. He learned these kinds of things and I think that's what really makes him a special leader. And then he would come up with innovative things like his one to one business model. That's very powerful thinking. And look what happened. You know, he made a big difference in the shoe business, but he also changed a lot of business. Look at Warby Parker's doing it too, where you buy, buy a pair of glasses and they give, give another pair to someone in need. You know, we did a podcast with them. They took that bottle and they made it work. And a lot of other businesses are doing that as well there. Another thing I really thought was really interesting is that, you know, he sold Toms and Tom's stopped that model. Okay. And I'm sure that, you know, that's hard for leaders when you, when you leave a business and something that you really believe in, people abandon. You know, I mean, I'm sure that had a huge impact on, on, on him when, when that happened. And he was very quick to point out to me that he wasn't the one that did that. Okay. It was somebody else. And, and anyway, I think that's another thing you have to do as a leader is when you move on, you kind of gotta hope that what you created sticks. If it doesn't stick, just know that somebody's there trying to do it better than you. That's very hard to do because you think typically you've done it pretty well. Okay. Like at Yum Brands, if, if I went to a Yum Brands meeting and they didn't do recognition, it would kill me. If I went to a Yum Brands meeting and they didn't do a Yum cheer, it would kill me. And you know, I've been to Yum a few times and the recognition is still going, going wild, but I didn't see as many Yum chairs as I would have liked to have seen. Okay. But hey, you know, life goes on.
- [64:23]
Podcast Host/Producer
David. I think it's fantastic that Yum Brands is continuing that culture of recognition and incorporating it into everything they do. And it's also fantastic that Yum Brands is also a best practice for other companies to study around how they create this culture of recognition and how that really drives results.
- [64:39]
David Novak
Thanks, Kula. And one of my proudest moments is when we were showcased in Fortune magazine for our recognition culture. And we did have all kinds of companies thereafter come visit us to see how we were doing it. And that's when you know you're doing something right. And I was really proud of our team.
- [64:57]
Podcast Host/Producer
Well, David, that wraps our episode of How Leaders Lead for today. Thank you so much for tuning in. And stay tuned next Thursday for another conversation.