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How Leaders Lead with David Novak
#282: Peter Wharton-Hood, CEO, LIFE Healthcare Group – Pick team players over individual performers
01:07:42
Listen to this leadership podcast with Peter Wharton-Hood, CEO of LIFE Healthcare Group, and discover what it looks like to make your team your top priority.
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host
Hello, friends, and welcome to another edition of How Leaders Lead with David Nobeck. Today we have Peter Warden Hood on the show. Peter is the CEO of Life Healthcare, and he took over in August of 2020, right in the middle of the COVID 19 pandemic. Now, Peter was an accomplished banking executive, but he had no healthcare experience and zero context for what it took to run a hospital. Yet it was his job to lead 16,000 healthcare workers through this generational crisis. Crisis. Peter stepped into that role with a team first philosophy, and that really has shaped his entire career. In this episode, you'll learn how to think differently about what really matters when building a team. And you'll gain from Peter the courage to make hard calls that great team culture requires. Enjoy this episode with David and Peter, and I'll see you at the end of the episode for the debrief.
- [00:56]
David Novak
It's great to have a conversation with one of the happiest guys I know. I mean, you've always got a smile on your face. What makes you so happy?
- [01:05]
Peter Warden Hood
Hey, David. What an interesting way of starting a conversation. I think it's the way that I was raised by my mother. I think in the context of how you wake up, each day is a gift. And if you're positive in the way you approach the day, lots of people are positive around you. And I think that just feeds on itself. So not mindlessly positive, but I just. Yes, I'm a happy guy.
- [01:28]
David Novak
You are. You are a happy guy. Is there anything you do to get yourself into that frame of mind before you go to work?
- [01:34]
Peter Warden Hood
No, I think it's just been years of repeating the same practice of surrounding myself with people that. That I really care for, that care for me, and that gets me off to a good start each day.
- [01:44]
David Novak
I heard a story about you that you once dyed your hair blue to motivate your team. You know, tell us that story.
- [01:52]
Peter Warden Hood
I guess you do things when you're young without thinking, but the instinct in those particular moments was we were the subject of a really hostile takeover bid. In that particular moment, there was some vacillation in the management team. Are we in? Are we out? And sometimes you make a bold statement. And my bold statement was, I'll show the teams around me that my blood was blue and use that as an excuse to tell that my hair turned blue and turn it into a bit of a story. And it's a bit of a risk to take when you not the boss of the business because you're not quite sure how the bosses are going to react. But Yes, I did do it.
- [02:29]
David Novak
Why the blue color?
- [02:31]
Peter Warden Hood
That was the flag carrying color of the standard bank. We were always recognized as the blue bank. And I decided to use that thematic throughout the organization, that my blood was blue and it turned my hair blue and some bought it.
- [02:46]
David Novak
You know, you talked about moments. We tend to remember moments not business as usual. You know, when else have you deliberately gone against the grain or done something to sort of shock the system, to create a moment that your team will never forget?
- [03:00]
Peter Warden Hood
In those particular instances, it's a question of the levels of maturity that existed at the time. We have done some, I'm going to say different things, interviewing people late at night having episodes where the management team are pushed a little bit beyond their comfort zones by doing things in extraordinary circumstances. We were knitting a team together and I got them to do a firewalk. HR executive looked at me like I'd lost it. And I said, well, we're going to have to walk through fire in a commercial sense, so let's do a firewalk. And the top 50 executives all had to walk across about 12 meters of hot coals. We were correctly trained, but yes, we put them through, put them through a firewall and it worked. It worked.
- [03:51]
David Novak
I'm glad it worked for you. I had a guy down in Australia do that once and they did the firewalk and one guy ended up suing the company. So, you know, give me a snapshot of Life healthcare and the business that you lead today.
- [04:07]
Peter Warden Hood
The business that I led in 2020 was multi geography, 23 countries, multidisciplined, large hospital business in South Africa, big diagnostic and imaging business across Western Europe, and an emerging radiopharmaceutical business in the United States. And that, as exciting as that seemed, it was an organization that was too complex. And the deliberate decision we took was to simplify the business and get it back to basics. And when I talk about basics, we're now a South African focused hospital group. We have 42 large privately owned hospitals and account for about 16,000 nursing staff and have about 700,000 patient visits during the course of each year. So it is a South African focused hospital business.
- [04:54]
David Novak
Now, Peter, how do you stay in touch with the front line in that business?
- [05:00]
Peter Warden Hood
There are two ways of doing it. In this particular job, I always believe sitting behind your desk is a dangerous place from which to view the corporation. So we have a federal model that runs the hospital business where the hospital manager actually has a team around him or her that is multidisciplinary and effectively runs the hospital as a Largely independent unit. By the same token, that means that the leadership have actually got to get their feet on the ground and they've actually got to get to the hospital units themselves. Because hospitals are complex businesses, David. They have lots of moving parts and you can't just sit back and look at financial information. You actually have to get out there. So I and the executive team spend time visiting the hospitals in real time to make sure that we know who those loyal people are that are making the businesses work.
- [05:47]
David Novak
You know, I've heard you say that you didn't choose healthcare, that healthcare chose you. What do you mean by that?
- [05:56]
Peter Warden Hood
It was one of those moments where a whole lot of stars lined up. My wife had said to me that retirement was too early and it wasn't going to end well for me, which is an instruction to go and find a job. I had to take a step back and say what I was really looking for. And I was looking for complexity. I was looking for an industry that had high levels of regulatory involvement and government engagement. And I was also looking for something which was completely different to banking and through a set of circumstances. One was considered advice on the golf course, where I was pointed towards healthcare as being an industry that ticked all those boxes. I was then locked behind my desk during COVID so I decided to register for a course on the Harvard EDX platform in clinical safety systems, which was completely out of my skill set. And then out of the blue got a call from a headhunter suggesting that they were looking for a chief executive of a healthcare company. And whilst they considered my leadership credentials, they said, don't get too excited, we actually looking for a doctor. To which my candid response was, well, if you're looking for a doctor to run, run it then I'm clearly not the person. And they didn't speak to me for six weeks, which was completely an understandable outcome. But then they did find me and asked me to be to take the industry seriously. And in so doing, without thinking I was going to end up there, I got captured in a very positive way by the excitement that the industry presented and the challenges it presented. And David, I consider myself extremely lucky to have found my way into the industry.
- [07:35]
David Novak
So what did not being a doctor bring to you that helped you do your job then, then, then perhaps, you know, being a doctor, I think it
- [07:45]
Peter Warden Hood
was a distinct advantage. Despite the conversations I had with Dr. Toby Cosgrove through the process where he explained to me how difficult it was going to be not being a doctor, I actually think it helped me enormously because part of the leadership recipe that I've got is you have to concede the points that you don't know, that the team around you is always going to be better than you are as an individual. And to put that into stark relief in healthcare by not being a doctor. I knew straight away there was at least 20% of the hospital business that I knew absolutely nothing about. But the 80% around process and corporate and financing and technology I had a good handle on given my banking background. So I think that lesson in humility was stark. There was a lot that I didn't know and therein allowed me to flourish as a leader by getting the right team around me.
- [08:37]
David Novak
That's great, and I'm going to dig more into that later. But let's rewind for a moment. You grew up in South Africa and tell us something from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today. You talked about your mother and how she taught you the positivity that you have. Is there a story that got your leadership mindset in a certain direction?
- [09:02]
Peter Warden Hood
I think there are two aspects to it. Both mom and dad. Dad was a corporate executive and ended up running one of the biggest life insurance companies in South Africa. My mother was a nurse and stayed as a nurse until retirement age of 65. And I think, David, there were two aspects that were brought to be in the home environment. One was that hard work was expected. So I had two hard working parents, but I was a little guy and I got bullied at school. And I think the context within which how both mom and dad shaped my response to being bullied was important. That they didn't get, they didn't interfere, they didn't run to the headmaster and ask for interventions. They taught me to stand up for myself. And I think the combination of courage through having to persevere through tough times, but also backing that up with a hard working ethic shaped the way that I then took on leadership positions later on in my life.
- [10:02]
David Novak
Now, as I understand it, you entered the working world just as South Africa was ending apartheid. What did living through that level of national change teach you about leadership early on in your career?
- [10:18]
Peter Warden Hood
If one looks at what happened to this country in 1994, I think it played out in real time. To see the most magnanimous gesture of one of the world's greatest leaders play out right in your home country. The unselfishness with which Nelson Mandela led the change in this country will be written in the annals of history forever. And to watch that take shape in such an unselfish moment, and also then see the impact that it had in a positive way on so many people. Just exemplified the acceleration that great leadership can in actual present in difficult or seemingly impossible sets of circumstances. I think in that sense, it's only in awe that you look at what people like Nelson Mandela have achieved. But it gives you the courage to natural fact. See a country that has moved itself from what the world thought was the brink of anarchy into a flourishing rainbow nation. Again, there's positivity and reinforcement that goes with it, but it does give you an acute sense of what can be achieved when people and nations and teams put their minds to things.
- [11:22]
David Novak
How has that shaped just how you develop leaders within your own company?
- [11:27]
Peter Warden Hood
I think the context within which you look at individuals is important. Not everyone's made the same. And dynamic team requires a multitude of different approaches to problems. It's easy to say diversity of individuals around a team makes for a really dynamic environment, but it's actually a diversity in assumptions and working experiences that also gives you that ability to be able to bring power together by celebrating differences. So the rainbow nation of South Africa celebrates its differences multiculturally. And I think having a diverse team in a South African context goes without saying that it's expected of us as leaders to be able to integrate. And I think the huge commercial advantages that come from being able to integrate diverse views and opinions before decisions get
- [12:18]
David Novak
taken makes a lot of sense. And, you know, backgrounds are very important. And you started your career as an accountant and you still describe yourself that way. What did being an accountant train you in terms of how you see yourself as a leader?
- [12:35]
Peter Warden Hood
I think everyone's got to have a sort of a go to or a safe place from which to make decisions. And I think comfort in numbers is what was taught to me as an accountant that in the context of making bold decisions, make sure you understand the numbers. In the context of solving complex problems, follow the numbers. And I think in banking where the numbers are pretty complex, that was the discipline that gave me the bedrock against which I could gain the confidence of knowing off which particular premise big decisions needed to be taken, made and adjudicated. And it also taught me process. So it's those two skills that I think gave me the opportunity to have a defining character or tray that I could bank on in really difficult times.
- [13:19]
David Novak
Give me an example where you followed the numbers and it took you down the right path.
- [13:25]
Peter Warden Hood
The context really was the E commerce evolution that was taking place early 2000s. The Standard bank group at that particular juncture was a bricks and mortar bank. And the ability to be able to diverge away from basically just the bricks and mortar delivery mechanism in the retail bank gave us the opportunity to think about an Internet only bank. And the instinct was that it was time to follow it. The numbers suggested that there was high risk, but there was a large chance of success. And it's actually not a good news story, David, because we got everything right except remembering to ask the customers if it was the right time for them. We got the technology right, we got the business plan right, we set the numbers up in a way that looked like it was destined for success. And it turns out that we were about three years too early and it turned out to be the wrong decision at the particular time. So it is one where numbers are also fallible. And therein lies one of the crucial lessons that understanding that numbers give you the scenario in which you're making your decision. Also make sure that you can calibrate the risk. And whilst it was a strength of mine at the time, it also taught me a really good lesson because there was an unintended risk which I hadn't contemplated.
- [14:43]
David Novak
You've got some of the best people skills of anybody I've ever met. I mean, you walk into a room, you know how to make people feel comfortable, you have tremendous presence. And those kind of skills don't take typically come along with what you would describe as or people would describe or see as the stereotypical accountant, you know. Where'd you develop these people skills?
- [15:07]
Peter Warden Hood
It's a hard question, David. And I think by example, my father was completely the opposite of me. He had a marketing brain. He was a salesperson. Started off selling oil for Shell and ended up selling life insurance policies for most of his life. And when I say most of his life, most of his life as a salesman. And he taught me the power of networks that the engagement model and the opportunity bill engage with people, you'll always find something interesting. They always know something a lot more. They know a lot more than you do. And if you embrace the opportunity to engage with new people in interesting ways, your life becomes very, very broad and very, very quickly. And my late stepmother also said to me, never turn down an invitation. You never quite know what excitement is around the corner. And if the invitation turns out to be one that wasn't that great, you can always leave. So I guess those two examples, one plays out and the world is filled with very nice people.
- [16:09]
David Novak
When you gave career advice, I've heard you say, pick your boss. Say more about that. And how that mindset shape the arc of your own career.
- [16:19]
Peter Warden Hood
I think it's the most important person to pick in your life is your wife. And I've been very blessed. In a work environment, the person that has the greatest impact on you is your boss. And it's the one choice you can make when you join an organization is who you choose to work for. And I've been very, very lucky, David. I worked for incredible people my whole career. And in so doing, a lot of what is presented today is a result of what I've learned from people way better than me, who I had the chance to learn from for an extended period of time. So it is one of those moments that you pick people that you aspire to. But by the same token, as a man, as a leader, I've always chosen to try and pick a team that's better than me. And I think I get the best of both worlds out of that. Learn from your boss and learn from the people that you choose.
- [17:11]
David Novak
You stepped into the CEO role of Life Healthcare in August of 2020, right in the middle of COVID What did you learn about leading through that crisis?
- [17:22]
Peter Warden Hood
It was an intriguing moment because it actually was a multiplicity of crises. The clinical crisis was obvious to all because at that particular point, the world's best clinicians had no idea where the virus had come from, how to contain it, how it was spreading. And there was widespread fear amongst all of the clinicians. So park the clinical crisis for a moment. It hampered our operations to the extent that elective surgical procedures couldn't take place. And that's the best part of half of the company's revenue. And with a fixed cost infrastructure such as a hospital group, you lose half the revenue, you start making losses. So there was a financial crisis. You combine those two, which require different instincts and opportunities or approaches to solve, and you actually end up with a leadership crisis. And I think therein, David was the right person at the right time. I say that humbly, but some of the crises that I'd had to go through in 07 and 08, in the banking crisis, and some of the challenges that Deutsche bank was faced with in the latter part of sort of 2015-2017 said that you can manage your way through crises, but you have to be very careful how you approach them. And in so doing, I was able to take the experience that I had in banking and apply it in healthcare in the difficult moments that we faced.
- [18:41]
Podcast Host
Hello everyone. I hope you are loving this conversation between David and Peter. As always, stay tuned to the very end of the episode, David and I are going to debrief the conversation that he's having with Peter so that you leave with some real, tangible takeaways to apply to your leadership and to your life. So stay tuned to the very end of the episode, and I will see you at the debrief.
- [19:03]
David Novak
You know, you're obviously not one to run away from a challenge, and not everyone is really wired to do that. Peter, was this learned or innate, or is this just part of who you are? Do you like to. You like to go into the fire? I mean, you do the fire walk. I mean, is this just something that you live for?
- [19:19]
Peter Warden Hood
I think the confidence to be able to take on tough tasks came by being given tough tasks when I was in my formative years and being well looked after by my bosses during those tough times that you then get a real sense that you can do things. I was never hung out to dry, but I was given some pretty tough challenges during the course of the early stages of my career. I think that gives you some of the confidence, and it also gives you a recipe book that you can apply in difficult circumstances, and that book hasn't changed. You pick really good teams, and I think that gave me the confidence to keep trying.
- [19:57]
David Novak
So you pick a really good team. Is there anything else in that recipe book of yours? You get that team, you're in a crisis situation. What have you learned about how to work through it?
- [20:06]
Peter Warden Hood
You can't ask anyone to do anything that you wouldn't do yourself. So that leadership by example model is an important one. I think that you've also got to show a tremendous capacity for hard work under tough circumstances, which comes with sacrifice. And you are the captain of the ship. You're the last person to leave the ship, which means that you just don't give up. And I think therein one also has to be realistic that some of us or many of us are in a position to put in the hours. And I've had a very supportive family network that's allowed me to do it. But you can't be unreasonable in your expectations. So balancing the two between contribution and a leadership model that you feel proud of is also got to be done with a level of respect and humility for the capacity that's around you.
- [20:50]
David Novak
So, you know, you come in as a CEO in this new industry, you know, what process did you use to really establish a clear, clear vision for the company and. And how did you go about communicating it, especially when you had fear and uncertainty everywhere and you're a new guy that doesn't have any healthcare experience, I mean that that had to be kind of a tough, tough mindset for the people to go through as well.
- [21:18]
Peter Warden Hood
It was. And not everyone responded particularly well to a banker in a healthcare environment immediately, particularly from a clinical perspective. And therein I made sure that the chief medical officer had the rule of the roost, put the trust in them and the clinical committee of the board, which meant that the real aspects of my weaknesses, I was shielded by having really competent people taking the lead and me backing them. The financial component and the financial part of the crisis, I clearly was, I had, I knew more having been through those processes many times before in the, in, in the banking environment. And actually that actually played to its strengths and it put me in a position where I could demonstrate capability in a strange environment, but playing to my strengths, delegated the responsibility in a responsible way to the, to the clinicians and in so doing was allowing myself to be able to assimilate what the next steps were likely to be for the company. So, interesting enough, David, the crisis brought me a period of time where day to day managing the crises on hand allowed me to learn the industry before I had to give an answer as to where we thought we were going to position the company a little bit later on. So I was relatively lucky in a difficult set of circumstances that I had, yeah, a bit of time to be able to think.
- [22:39]
David Novak
Did you bring your team together to develop that vision or did you go into your office and come out with it one day and say, this is where we're going and then get the feedback? Where did you start?
- [22:48]
Peter Warden Hood
The question I posed to them is let's write the newspaper article as to what this company would look like in 2025. And each of you are the journalists, you're the journalist for your division. You got to write it down in two pages. So effectively, it took a 300 page strategic plan that was quite complex to digest and it turned it into 20 pages of what the leaders aspired to be able to deliver over the next five years. And off the back of that, David, I was able to pick the eyes out of each of what the ambition statements were and then ask them how they were going to get it done. So we reverse engineered the strategy of the company from what would like to be hypothetical, multidisciplinary, lots of options and lots of choices, basically to an ambition statement where a company in crisis was asked what you want it to look like in five years time. And that brought the team together because it was an element of doing things very differently. And some of them looked at me quizzically and said, you know, this is not how we've done the strategic plan of the company before. I said, well, the world for healthcare has changed so significantly, we have to do things significantly differently. And it's intriguing to watch how many things we got wrong in those forecasts over those five years. And reciprocally, some of the stuff we got right.
- [24:03]
David Novak
Did you come up with a magic set of words that really provided the noble cause for the organization?
- [24:09]
Peter Warden Hood
We did indeed. And the noble cause for life healthcare is making life better. And it resonates across so many different dimensions, because life could be life. Health care make the company better. Life could be the life of the individuals, work in the company, make their lives better. But when one thinks about it, our responsibility is to patients, and when they come to hospital, they want to be better by the time they leave. Making life better actually works across so many different dimensions. And it just happened spontaneously. We didn't have to spend months researching it or getting agencies to help us. It popped out of the executive and it stuck great.
- [24:48]
David Novak
And how do you, as a leader, go about continually communicating and reinforcing that vision?
- [24:55]
Peter Warden Hood
And therein lies one of the challenges, because the inconsistency in healthcare is it ebbs and flows in a fairly significant way that they're good times and they're tough times, and we just have to constantly bang the same drum or beat the same drum the same way. So the messages are always in tune with the way that we see the outcomes of the company, and it's easy to go back to the bedrock. So in tough times, we're going to make life better tends to be, at this particular point, a more electronically distributed message through the various different locations, because it's impossible to get to all of them physically, all at the same time. And we've set up a natural communication routine that runs through the hospitals on a very predictable monthly basis that reinforces the message with good news stories, David. And I think that's what there are lots of good news stories that come out of healthcare patient experiences. And we try and exemplify it with examples.
- [25:49]
David Novak
When you give the big speech to the organization, are you a storyteller? Do you use a lot of stories in your speeches or how do you go about that?
- [25:56]
Peter Warden Hood
I'm not a great storyteller, David, so it doesn't tend to be story driven. The animation comes more from experiences and parallels that one can draw between the healthcare industry and other aspects that I've seen in different organizations during the course of my tenure as an executive. And sometimes that brings a refreshing view on how problems can be solved, because typically, the wave that healthcare is moving into now requires a very different set of thought processes to what has been happening certainly for the last 20. And in so doing, some of those parallels become quite interesting because they're technically relevant, but not healthcare specific.
- [26:38]
David Novak
So you have these new thought processes that are going to be required for success in your industry. How do you bring your people along with you so that they, they adapt these processes or these thought processes that you're going to, you know, are essential if you're going to continue to win?
- [26:53]
Peter Warden Hood
And I think therein lies one of the big challenges. Healthcare in South Africa changes very, very slowly. So you can have two decades of no change, and then you can have massive change happen very, very quickly. And Covid is a good example of, of that in a nutshell, the technological evolution that's taking place in healthcare does frighten people. If one speaks about it irresponsibly, Some people draw a conclusion that robots will replace nurses. It's a ridiculous notion. David Robots will never replace nurses, certainly not in my tenure. But one does feel that people get threatened by change. And in so doing, one has to do it in a way that embraces the change for the purpose for which it's intended and the enviable outcomes that one wants to deliver. But you do it in a way that lets people feel that that's part of the new beginnings for them is players inside the organization as them being substituted.
- [27:45]
David Novak
You've talked about people a number of times in your team. You've actually said, no staff, no business. Where did that belief in people come from in your career? And what do you do as a leader to drive that home to your leaders across the organization?
- [28:07]
Peter Warden Hood
If one looks at the successes that I've happened to be part of, it's always been about teamwork. It's always been a team game, shared spoils and collective efforts. David I don't actually know any other way. And that was the way that I was raised. That's the way that I've been trained. And if you really want a really good feeling, then succeed as a team, because that success shared is just a multiplication factor that is, that is just so desirable that you want more of it. And in that context, showcasing teamwork has been exemplified to my executives on the basis that I will pick team players before individually brilliant people. And I've made that absolutely clear. Even great individuals have said, well, if I'M not a team player, then I don't have a place to. I don't belong in this team. And that has worked. Yes, it's quite a blunt statement, but it is what I believe and it is what I. What I choose to pursue passionately.
- [29:10]
David Novak
You're a team member, you're really smart, you got all the talent, and you're not playing ball in your company. What's your coaching process? For a person like that, the first
- [29:20]
Peter Warden Hood
opportunity is to talk to them honestly, try and find out what's driving the inconsistency in their behavior. And sometimes it's issues away from the workplace that they're battling with. And I think an insight into the individual and the challenges that they faced with. And demonstrating empathy builds trust. And trust allows you to deliver some of the tough messages without it appearing as though that you're trying to get them out. Because deep inside, the people that I've worked with, the good human. The good human is there. It's sometimes blocked by other issues that they may be struggling with, and it may even be my management style. But if you allow them to articulate it and you find ways to be able to address it, the mentorship model and the ability to coach them is just that much easier. But that doesn't mean you can't deliver tough messages as and when they're required.
- [30:11]
David Novak
Without going into names, obviously, what would be the toughest situation where you actually had to let somebody go and how did you handle it?
- [30:19]
Peter Warden Hood
And individually, brilliant person with no capacity to engage with the team and around which we built a promise to the marketplace where he was pivotal to the delivery thereof. And I had to let him go with consequences, ruffled feathers through the team. How are we going to deal with it in the marketplace? And effectively, I had to make the judgment call was, are we going to try and manage around the individual or were we going to come up with a better plan? And in that particular set of circumstances, at great cost to the team, the individual had to be asked to leave.
- [31:00]
David Novak
Those are the tough calls to make. But, you know, the good news is there's always people that are on the team and that get things done. You know, how do you make sure people feel seen and valued? How do you go about that as a leader?
- [31:14]
Peter Warden Hood
I think there are multiple aspects that keep people engaged inside an organization. And it's not money. I think there are other aspects that one needs to work on. And if you split it into three, providing them with the challenge that they feel stretched by brings them to work. Making sure that they feel appreciated not in a financial sense but in a management recognition sense. Pays huge dividends going forward and making sure that the right hygiene factors within the corporate are taking care of their ambitions with a decent Runway for them and understanding where their career is going actually shows that they're taking very good care of that three way model. Once it cements with great individuals, they don't leave, they have difficult times every now and again. So it's a deliberate view not to just think that you solve these challenges with money that forces you to think about the issues that are really important to people.
- [32:12]
David Novak
How do you personally recognize people? Do you have any way that you do it?
- [32:17]
Peter Warden Hood
There's no sort of unique signature that I would say that everyone would say they've been treated the same way. But I make sure that the recognition and appreciation is always there. I engage with my direct reports continuously so that by the time it gets to formal appraisals at Hoffman and full year end, there aren't any surprises. They tend to be relatively easy conversations. So it's ongoing dialogue David. It's about being present when they have meetings with you, that you focused, that you listening, that they know that you're listening, that you can remember the questions that they ask and the answers that you've given and to make sure that you've taken them seriously as individuals would be what I would like to be remembered for. It's not always that easy. Pressure times do create slight differences in behavior. But that's the way that I like to for people to feel that I'm engaged with them and I'm interested in them and I care about them.
- [33:11]
David Novak
You've been described by many people as a leader who truly backs their people. I mean you walk the talk on this dimension. Tell us about a time you put your own credibility on the line for someone on your team where you really had to back somebody that maybe people weren't necessarily sure of.
- [33:28]
Peter Warden Hood
Absolutely. And it springs to mind almost immediately that in my current job, and we won't mention names because you asked not to, but I decided to take an individual who had a unique skill set, was completely not qualified for the role that I wanted to place the individual in and made the decision and I didn't get support from anybody, everybody thought I was crazy. I put my own stamp on and said I'll, I'll. If it doesn't work, I'll take the hit. And I'm delighted to say that four years later it's turned out to be exactly the right decision for the company. The Individual and the outcomes that we needed to deliver. But David, was the only time in my career where I got absolutely no support for a decision and had to stand my ground.
- [34:15]
David Novak
And what was it that gave you that conviction to do that? Because a lot of people wimp out
- [34:22]
Peter Warden Hood
in this particular instance, getting to some of the finer detail, it was all around people and culture. And I don't believe that you learn people and culture in a book, and I don't believe that you get a degree in people and culture. I think you've either got it in your DNA or you haven't. And the ability to engage with people across multiple cultures in very different circumstances and form a cohesive view as to where the organization needs to be patched up or needs to be matured, I think takes tremendous people insight. And my instincts were that this individual
- [34:53]
David Novak
had it and that's all it took. You then you follow that gut. You know, you're a leader who clearly leads by example. I mean, you mentioned you don't ask people to do anything that you wouldn't do. And I think that's a very powerful point, obviously. So when you think about that and you think about behaviors you want to drive in your organization, what's been the hardest behavior to get others to adopt in your culture that, you know, is
- [35:24]
Peter Warden Hood
really important, I think in the context across the decades, the consistency of being transparent with your colleagues has been the most difficult to achieve. And I think that that resistance comes for a variety of reasons. You need confidence to be transparent with a colleague because it's quite difficult to tell someone you don't like what they're doing. Different hierarchical structures, even in a flat organizational structure, tend to create power gaps where people are either scared or lack the confidence to be able to address the issue. And sometimes people are just too nice. That they feel that by confronting an individual around behavior that they will be seen to be offensive is completely understandable. So creating that environment where the consistency of engagement across executives is transparent, honest and productive is a constant nurturing because that requires effort and work all the time.
- [36:26]
David Novak
You're obviously a hell of a nice guy. I mean, you're just a good guy. People love being around you. You're so empathetic. But I'm sure like most nice guys, you want to be liked. I mean, you know, it's kind of in our DNA. You know, you have a desire to be liked. How do you manage that desire to be liked if you think you have it okay and still be able to make a tough call?
- [36:53]
Peter Warden Hood
I think, David, that's that's probably part of me that is, that has morphed over the years. I think in the formative years, as a younger leader, you want to be liked. But I had a great mentor and his wise words to me were leadership is not a popular position and you're not there to be their friends, you're there to be their leader. And there will be moments where what you decide is not going to be a popular outcome. And you grow, shall we say a slight immunity would be the wrong word, but you grow an increasing sense of responsibility, that doing what is right for the individuals and for the company may come at a personal price. And that's the price that leaders have to pay, that a constant seek. If you constantly seek popularity or box yourself into a corner where you'll make the wrong decisions, back the wrong person, or do what's not in the best interest of the company. So I've had to numb myself to the fact that there will be moments of time where I'm not popular and that just is a price I have to pay as opposed to the alternative, which is not in my DNA to walk down that path.
- [38:04]
David Novak
You know, you've obviously overseen technology and operations on a global scale. What's one mistake you see leaders make when they're trying to, let's call it, say, digitally transform an organization?
- [38:19]
Peter Warden Hood
David I smile because I'm trapped immediately in that problem again as we speak, standard bank days, we rode the technology curve. We were at the cutting edge of technology. Largest installation, IBM's largest installation in the southern hemisphere. We were their beta site for a number of cutting edge moments and proudly took it as the way forward. In banking, it comes at a price. You need a big balance sheet. You've got to accept that you're going to make mistakes. And the lesson that I learned there was that technology started to move at such a fast pace that being on the cutting edge, you could be trapped in an environment that became dated quite quickly. Fast forward 15 years later into healthcare. And what we're seeing now is that the technology edge we as a corporation are currently behind, the technology frontier is moving that quickly. That the deliberate bet we are taking is to stall. The implementations that the market is suggesting are obvious on the basis that we think the technology is going to move that much quicker, that it'll be cheaper in a year's time and probably much easier to implement. And you only have to have a look what's happened in AI in the last six months to realize that this curve is moving really, really quickly. So I'm an outlier in the decision. By resisting the change and the momentum, knowing that there comes a stage, we're going to have to be a very, very fast follower and hopefully that strategy succeeds.
- [39:48]
David Novak
Yeah, so you're consciously not trying to lead, you're going to be that fast follower. That takes some courage because people could say, man, we're getting left behind. I mean, they got to be pounding your office door like they're doing this, they're doing this, you know, why aren't we going?
- [40:02]
Peter Warden Hood
And that's happened both internally from the board and from the market's perspective. But the approach to solving that particular pressure problem is to have a very clear view as to where you're going and also have a very clear plan as to how you're going to get there. The only thing that's then going to change is the timeline. And the optionality to be able to accelerate the timeline is far easier than having to say, oops, we made a mistake to reverse and start again. And I think therein is the conservative nature of actually holding back just for the time being.
- [40:36]
David Novak
How are you preparing your team for the role that AI is playing across healthcare right now and not just operationally, but culturally? How do you personally think about driving the need for AI in your organization?
- [40:49]
Peter Warden Hood
I think there comes a junction in the organization where you split in a healthcare world, AI and what it will deliver clinically supplement to or complement doctors judgment or specialist judgment in clinical circumstances and how we view AI from a process and procedural perspective back in the operations of the company. Clearly the latter is a much easier one to contemplate because robotic process automation and the use of AI in process driven improvements is largely non threatening. It's largely understood and it's easy to create from a business case perspective. The juncture between patient care and specialist judgment in particular issues then takes on a multiplicity of permutations. Radiology is probably the best example that I can give David, that AI in the radiology world, if you go back a year, everyone said would drive radiologists out of business because the computer was going to do everything that they could do. Interestingly enough, more recent statistics have shown that the use of AI has driven an increase in the demand for radiology expertise. Because the volumes have increased, the basic cases are being handled by the computer. More complex cases are now finding their way to the radiologist at an increasing level of frequency. So exactly the opposite to the prediction has actually taken place. The way that we bring it to be in the organization is make them feel comfortable. This is part of progress. Understand how it can benefit the organization and understand how you as an individual need to adapt in what you deliver so that you part of the wave that moves forward and not fighting it.
- [42:29]
David Novak
How are you personally thinking about AI in terms of how it's going to make you a better leader?
- [42:35]
Peter Warden Hood
And that's been an intrigue for me because my younger daughter thinks that I'm clueless in bringing this together. Part of the experiences that have been brought to be is how it's made a whole lot of day to day work that much more efficient. I've also become intrigued by the level of curiosity that you can express and the questions that you can ask. Because you can ask what might be a dumb question in public, in private, and at least see what answer comes back before you embarrass yourself publicly. But it's just another moment to be able to get an opinion. I think that a diverse team, a diverse board has got a multiplicity of backgrounds, assumptions and ways of seeing questions answered. And I think you've got to give AI an opportunity as well. So it's another member in a team from an executive perspective where it's not unreasonable to ask the question, but you can't abdicate and you can't be driven by it because eventually there's a reversion to a norm where everyone's got the same weapon and we're all going to look the same if we constantly think about AI the same way. So use it, but make sure you don't stop thinking and try and see what edges that creates.
- [43:42]
David Novak
Speaking of thinking, one CEO I talked to recently was talking about the importance of being able to ask the right questions. It's not just taking AI, but then having the question, the ability to ask the right questions and keep pushing AI, that was really making the difference. And he was trying to build that ability to ask the right question in his organization. What's your perspective on that, David?
- [44:08]
Peter Warden Hood
I go back to some of the greatest leaders that I've worked for. They always ask the right question. They just had a way of being able to do it where it prompted more thoughts before you gave answers. And by the time you've given the answer to the first question, it had already prompted the next question and the next question and the next question. So I see the engagement with AI as being part of an executive's responsibility. If you can't ask your own team members the right question, you'll never be able to ask AI the right question. So I think it's part and parcel of the growth and development that now you just have to ask more questions and you've got to ask them faster. So I think it's actually made our jobs more difficult as leaders, as opposed to easier.
- [44:49]
David Novak
You know, you say that if you don't understand yourself, you cannot be a leader. Say more.
- [44:58]
Peter Warden Hood
I think levels of self awareness shape the person that other people receive. And I think that understanding the person that you are is fundamentally important so that you can position yourself correctly. Because ultimately social engagements and business engagements are about how you integrate with others. If you're aware of your blind spots, if you're aware of your weaknesses, if you're aware of your idiosyncrasies, I think gives you a far better way of being able to articulate who you are, why you are, and be able to adapt to different circumstances. So I think that that comes as part of the top three attributes that I would see in leaders, that self aware is fundamentally important.
- [45:40]
David Novak
So I gotta ask the follow up here. You know, when you look at yourself today as a leader, how do you see yourself today as a leader and how do you want to be even better tomorrow?
- [45:50]
Peter Warden Hood
I think, David, there's no excuse for not being present. And the more you know, the more you've got to listen because you keep learning. And I think that the pressure I put myself under is to make sure that I listen more, speak less, and allow other people the opportunity to express themselves. Because that gives me the chance to be able to assimilate the input that I'm getting and hopefully then make the right decisions, be they commercial, be they social, or be they the mentorship and coaching roles that leaders have to play. So listening becomes ever increasingly more important in the way that I see things.
- [46:29]
David Novak
Peter, I gotta tell you, this has been a lot of fun and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this?
- [46:37]
Peter Warden Hood
Hit me.
- [46:37]
David Novak
What three words best describe you?
- [46:40]
Peter Warden Hood
Passionate. Courageous. Diligent.
- [46:43]
David Novak
Your biggest pet peeve.
- [46:44]
Peter Warden Hood
Lazy.
- [46:45]
David Novak
Who would play you in a movie?
- [46:47]
Peter Warden Hood
George Clooney.
- [46:48]
David Novak
Something you'd only know about South Africa if you're from there.
- [46:52]
Peter Warden Hood
11 different cultures within a plane flight. A short plane flight away from wherever you are.
- [46:58]
David Novak
So you're an avid golfer. I know that you're dream foursome. Dead or alive.
- [47:03]
Peter Warden Hood
These people could be Ben Crenshaw, Ben
- [47:06]
David Novak
Hogan, Tiger woods, your all time best
- [47:09]
Peter Warden Hood
round of golf level, par round, Royal Johannesburg, early 90s.
- [47:14]
David Novak
What's something you've been curious about lately that has absolutely nothing to do with work?
- [47:19]
Peter Warden Hood
I'm an avid photographer and the synchronicity behind aperture, shutter speed, ISO trade offs and exposure compensation in low light has baffled me. So I've been reading about it and I still haven't to answer.
- [47:36]
David Novak
What's the one thing you do?
- [47:38]
Peter Warden Hood
Just for you, I take half an hour each day to think.
- [47:42]
David Novak
Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession?
- [47:47]
Peter Warden Hood
A motor car.
- [47:48]
David Novak
If I turn, can I ask what? Which one?
- [47:50]
Peter Warden Hood
It's a Ferrari F40.
- [47:53]
David Novak
All right. If I turn the radio on in your car, in your Ferrari, what would I hear?
- [48:00]
Peter Warden Hood
Earth, wind and fire. September.
- [48:02]
David Novak
What's something about you?
- [48:03]
Peter Warden Hood
Few people would know that I got bullied at school.
- [48:06]
David Novak
If you could be one person for a day, who would it be?
- [48:09]
Peter Warden Hood
Leonardo da Vinci.
- [48:11]
David Novak
We're out of the lightning round. You did well, Peter. Wait, here we go. Just a few more questions, we'll wrap this up. Leadership. Obviously people always say, oh, it's lonely at the top, but it can be isolating at times. Who do you rely on? To tell you the truth, my wife. Now your wife, Sarah. What's the best example of how she's really made you a better leader?
- [48:32]
Peter Warden Hood
I think you know, we've. We've been married for 38 years and the context. Sorry, 37 years. I better make sure I get that right. Otherwise in real trouble. We've grown together and over the years she's always managed to keep me grounded. Sometimes I can be too optimistic, too ambitious, or perhaps a little bit impulsive. It comes from the enthusiasm with which I approach each day. And she has a grounded way of making sure that causes me to think. And the lifestyle change from being retired to working. It came, as I said earlier in the chat today, David, where she said to me, this is not going to work. And she called it, she calls it with care and love, but doesn't mince her words when she needs to get the message across.
- [49:21]
David Novak
What's leadership look like at home for you? I mean, is it any different than how you lead at work?
- [49:28]
Peter Warden Hood
At least at work I'm considered the boss. I live with Sarah and my two strong willed girls. It's a collaborative environment. Each one gets a chance to speak, each one is a good listener, but each one of them has very firm opinions. And we ultimately end up making the decisions that are in the best interest of the family. And so doing, everyone gets their chance to express their views. But I'm delighted with the logic and the way that things get done. But every now and again, some of the tougher decisions have to get delegated.
- [50:10]
David Novak
What do you see as Your unfinished
- [50:11]
Peter Warden Hood
business, I think in the context of where I find myself today, David, is that healthcare in South Africa has got its challenges around accessibility and affordability. There's a bifurcation in the market where private healthcare delivered in South Africa is top class amongst the best countries in the world. And the public health care system is failing. 50 million people. We have spare capacity sitting in the private healthcare system and I need to find a way to cross a bridge with government that allows us to utilise some of that spare capacity for the underserved portion of the nation of South Africa. It's an incredibly difficult challenge, but one which is appropriately positioned in this country right here and now. And it might not be about just getting the solution, it's about getting the dialogue to be handled in a constructive way.
- [51:03]
David Novak
As I think about this conversation we've had, you kind of remind me of a teddy bear that can be a grizzly bear. How do you respond to that?
- [51:15]
Peter Warden Hood
I don't think that's unfair. People that have known and worked with me for a long time, do you understand? There's a fun side, there's a cuddly side, there's an approachable side, but there is a moment in time where tough decisions will, if they need to be taken, they will get taken. I'm just hopeful that in doing it, that the right decision gets achieved, but it doesn't come by damaging people. That is my worst fear.
- [51:38]
David Novak
Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?
- [51:43]
Peter Warden Hood
Hard work intersects with good luck. And if you present those two on a consistent basis with a care for humans around you, you'll find you'll get people to follow people to follow you. And if you can do that, there's no setting any boundaries as to where the limits are.
- [52:01]
David Novak
Peter, I knew this was going to be a fantastic conversation. I want to thank you for taking the time to do it. You're a hell of a good person and obviously a great leader. And congratulations on all your success.
- [52:13]
Peter Warden Hood
David, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed it and thank you for the way that you've made me think and for the fun that it's been. I've really enjoyed it.
- [52:20]
David Novak
Thank you.
- [52:26]
Podcast Host
David, I think this marks the first time I've ever heard you call a podcast guest a teddy bear and a grizzly bear.
- [52:33]
David Novak
Well, that's because he reminds me so much of myself. You know, I've been. I was called that by Dave Dorman, who used to be on our board when I was at Yum Brands and he called me a teddy bear that could be a grizzly bear. And when I was talking to Peter, I thought, if there ever is a teddy bear that could be a grizzly bear, it's him. He, he's taken over my role. And, but you know, I think that basically means that, look, you know, people may think you're kind of soft and you, you're very, you know, into treating people well and being as kind as you can possibly be. But people don't perform or people take advantage or people get out of line, you can very quickly become tough minded and let people know that that's unacceptable. And we gotta, you know, change things around here with your performance and how you're acting. And I think that's what you get from the discussion we had with Peter. He's an awesome guy, much more awesome than me by the way, and probably a much better teddy bear and a much better grizzly bear when he has to be.
- [53:46]
Podcast Host
Well, you can certainly tell that he is able to lean into both of those facets of his personality throughout this conversation. And David, I want to debrief some of the other concepts that you two talked about so that everyone listening has something really tangible that they can take away from this conversation and apply it to their leadership and to their life. In the episode David, Peter talks about the cost of leadership and he mentions leadership isn't always a popular position. Sometimes doing what is right and best for the company and may come at a personal price or may make people dislike you. Talk about how you navigated that throughout your career. I mean, we just said it. You know, sometimes you have to be a grizzly bear and sometimes you can be a teddy bear. How do you navigate that tension as the leader who has to make those unpopular calls?
- [54:30]
David Novak
Well, I think when you are the leader, there is a cost of leadership, you know, and that is you have to make the decisions. You have to make the tough call when it's, when it's there. You know, it's always fun when everybody agrees and it's easy to make those decisions. But there are times when not everyone agrees and there are times when people get out of line and you need to whip the team back into shape and that's when you got to become a grizzly bear. And when you're a grizzly bear, it's not always popular, but you do it because it's the right thing. You do it because, you know if you don't do it, you know it will be the wrong thing because people will look at your standards and come up with the wrong conclusions. I spoke at a conference today and someone asked what happens when you have a really high talent performer that doesn't play team ball. And I said, first of all, you got to have confidence in yourself as a leader that you can recruit somebody that can be a high talent performer that will play team ball. Then you got to have confidence in your company that your company's good enough, that you know you're going to be able to recruit that person to come in and be high talent and then play, play team ball. And then you got to know that if you don't exercise the privilege of leadership, if you don't step up, okay, there is a real cost of not leading. And that means that you're going to be setting a standard that's unacceptable to your people. You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth. You can't talk about the cultural values you have and then have a bad apple that doesn't live by it. And the excuse is, well, hey, he performs, he drives lots of revenue and profit and, or he or she can't, I can't take them out because of that. So what I think you have to do is you have to be a grizzly bear in a situation like that. And you gotta pull that person aside and coach first and tell them, hey, look, you are the best salesperson we have. You're getting tremendous players, the results and you obviously know how to treat your customers well. But why aren't you treating the people that you work with on the team well? Why do they think you're such a jerk? And you know, you got to really help that person understand how he's perceived on the team and then say it's unacceptable. And if you don't change, we're going to have a bigger problem in a couple months. But you really work on it. Let's see where you're at. And then if they don't change, you know, after you hit them with that two by four, then you know, you ultimately have to take them out. But that's being a grizzly bear. And you know, it's easy to be a teddy bear. The teddy bear times are when everybody agrees. But you know, you gotta be tough minded enough to make, make the right decision, the tough decision when it's called for.
- [57:09]
Podcast Host
I hear a lot of leaders talk about how that piece of leadership, the making the tough call is really what makes them feel isolated. So David, during your time at Yum Brands, when you had to be that grizzly Bear and make the tough calls. How did you find. How did you maintain relationship with the people close to you?
- [57:26]
David Novak
Well, the people close to me, you know, stayed close to me because they were doing their job and they were doing things the right way. The people who weren't close to me were the people who weren't living our culture. And, you know, what I tried to do is bring them back on board so that they could be on the team. And, you know, I really believe very much in and coaching first. And so that was just the way how I tried to run the railroad. But here's the key point. The key point is that I wouldn't want anybody else making that decision. I wouldn't want anybody else to have to step up and make the tough call. I mean, I wanted to be the leader. I wanted to have the job that I had. And I viewed it as a privilege of leadership. And when you're a leader, you've got to exercise the privilege, privilege of leadership by making the good, the easy decisions, the somewhat tougher decisions, and then the really hard decisions. And you can't shy away from them. And you obviously want to get your team input before you make any decision and make sure you do the right homework before you make any decision.
- [58:33]
Podcast Host
David, you alluded to this in that discussion just now, but the idea of team players over individual performers and throughout this conversation, that really comes to through Peter's emphasis on picking team players over individual talent. How do you think about that? I mean, would you pass over someone who is individually talented if they weren't a team player?
- [58:55]
David Novak
Yes, I would not have a star performer if they weren't a team player because that person will bring the team down ultimately. But it's the old magic of the end. And I'm sure Peter feels the same way. I want a star talent and a team player. And if you believe in yourself and you believe in your company, you can get both anytime. I brought in a team player that couldn't do their job well, they didn't stay on the team that long. So you gotta get somebody that's a team player and really does their job well enough to keep it. And yeah, that doesn't mean you necessarily have to be a star, but you gotta be damn good to be on the team. My approach, Kula, was I wanted an A team mentality. I wanted people, if they were on our team, I wanted them to feel like they're on the A team. The only way they could feel like they're on the A team is if you have high Talent that works together and knows how to function as a team. And that's when what does they say, you know, the, the tide rises for all boats.
- [59:57]
Podcast Host
I think about what you say a lot, David, that no one wants to be part of something mediocre. And that goes for, you know, the noble cause of the business and results oriented businesses. But also, I mean, no one wants to be part of a mediocre team with people that they know don't bring all star talent to work every day.
- [60:13]
David Novak
Yeah, they're inextricably linked. You know, you can't go to work and be a part of something great if you're on a team that doesn't play ball together.
- [60:20]
Podcast Host
David this last concept will really speak to those emerging leaders that are listening to this podcast. And it's an interesting piece of advice that Peter offers. In the conversation. He says that when you're thinking about your career, to pick your boss carefully. For Peter, this is the most important choice that you can make when you join an organization. How do you know what to look for in a boss? And can you pick your boss when you're early on in your career?
- [60:48]
David Novak
I think when you first get out of school, it's harder to pick your own boss, you know, but you can certainly pick the company. You know, you can certainly get a good sense of, of the energy, the vibe, you know, the culture of the company in the interview process. You can, you can get a feel as to whether you think you would fit there or it's the kind of place where it has a work environment where you want to be. And if you're really lucky, you know, when you get out of school and you're going for your first job, you know, you'll actually get to meet the person you're going to work for. And then you can make that same assessment. And if you can go to 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 different places, you know, I think then the pickier you can be. You know, if you're really just struggling in a tough economic environment just to find a job, it's hard to be real picky, you know, when you're starting out because you got to get experience. But once you get experience and you start working in the company and you decide that, hey, you're going to, you know, move to the, you know, to another function or another part of that company, I think that's when you really want to make sure you're picking your boss and it's, somebody's going to really promote you and help you and grow you. And then if you're going to go outside, you know, you certainly don't leave until you really believe that you have a boss that's going to invest in you. You know, there are two reasons I talk about this all the time. There's two reasons why people leave their company. One is they don't get along with their boss. And two is they don't feel appreciated for what they do. And many times those things are linked because the boss doesn't show you appreciation, the boss doesn't give you the recognition that you really are looking for. So, you know, so it's obvious that you, as a leader wanting to grow, you want to pick the boss that's going to be a coach, that's going to make you feel valued and it's going to invest in you. And I think as you move into your career and you start to get the second job, the third, third job, or the fourth job, I think it's absolutely critical to do exactly what Peter's talking about. Pick your boss. Do your very best to pick your boss. And you know what really makes you able to pick your boss? Be damn good at what you do. Crush it where you're at. Be someone who's so good at what they do that everybody wants them. And then you're in demand. And then you can be a little picky. If you don't really do your job well, it's hard to be in much demand.
- [63:11]
Podcast Host
We talk a lot among our team, David, about why we do the work we do. And it's to take down toxic work culture and make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And it's funny, when we talk to people who listen to the podcast or who get our daily emails when we talk about toxic work culture, it's almost like everybody has a story of a bad boss. Everyone has a story about a bad boss. And I, I mean, I do, I'm sure you might have a story about a bad boss, but you know, the whole point of this work that we're doing is to make that happen less. And I think it's so important to think through the cost of working in an environment or for someone who isn't self aware and doesn't appreciate you because it's not just that you go to work and have a bad day at work because you have a toxic work culture or a bad boss. It seeps into every aspect of your life. And so I love this piece of advice from Peter and I am hopeful that this podcast is helping bad bosses become better bosses all across the world.
- [64:14]
David Novak
Well, that's why we're doing it. We are trying to make the world a better place by helping to develop better leaders. And when you look at the statistics, I think over 80% of people say that there's a toxic work environment out there. And that is so, so sad. And, you know, our job is to help leaders become better at what they do. Now, the reality is that, yeah, we're doing the best job we possibly can at that, or at least we're trying. But the people that tune in, you know, these are leaders who want to get better. You know, everybody that's listening right now is listening because they want to learn from leaders and they want to get better. But I think what they can do by getting better in their workplace is set the example that other people will want to follow. I think that's how we can really make the biggest difference. If you lead the right way and you get great results, people want to do what you do. And that's what I'm hoping this podcast does, is helps people lead the right way by learning from other people that really know what they're doing. In this particular episode, I think we learned a few things, is that there is a cost of leadership. You have to step up and lead when it's time. And if you don't lead, you're not exercising the privilege of leadership. And you gotta make. Obviously the easy decisions are easier, the tougher decisions are tougher, but you have to make them all. The other thing is that if you get in a position where you're hiring people and building a team, you can't sacrifice your standards. You've got to be demanding. You got to have two things happen. You got to have people who play on a team, and then they're very talented at what they do. One without the other is unacceptable. And you as a leader have got to create an a team mentality that helps you. Helps you get the talented people that can play on a team. And last but not least, as you, you know, think about your career, you know, if you're going to school, go to the best school you can, go get the best grade you can. So maybe you can have the opportunity to pick your boss because everybody really wants you, okay? But then once you get into the workplace and you, you. You crush it where you're at, you know, absolutely do a great job so that you become in demand. So when you get that next job, you can pick your boss. Because when you could pick your boss, you can pick the person who's really going to invest in you and help you achieve the potential that you have within. And that's what we all want to do, right? We all want to grow to the our ultimate potential. And, you know, when you have a boss that invests in you, man, are you, you lucky. One of my great, great fortunes was that I never worked for anybody that didn't invest in me. It wasn't because I picked him. I just got lucky, okay? But if I could pick them, I would have picked every one of them because they taught me a lot and they believed in me and they helped me become the best that I could possibly be. And, you know, I'm sure I fell short many, many times, but, man, I had them rooting for me and cheering me on all along the way.
- [67:21]
Podcast Host
I love it.
- [67:22]
David Novak
David.
- [67:22]
Podcast Host
Well, thank you so much for a wonderful conversation with Peter Wartonhood. And thank you for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David Novak. Tune in next Thursday and we will see you soon.