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How Leaders Lead with David Novak
#284: Shea Ralph, Head Coach of Women’s Basketball, Vanderbilt – Ground your team in values, not results
01:05:40
Listen to this leadership podcast with Shea Ralph, Head Coach of Women’s Basketball at Vanderbilt, and discover how to lead your team to great results without being defined by them.
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host (possibly Kula)
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David Novak. I am so excited about today's guest. It's coach Shay Ralph, who is the head coach of the Vanderbilt women's basketball team. She just got named SEC Coach of the Year and National Coach of the year and she's leading Vanderbilt to the NCAA tournament as we speak. When Shea walked in as head coach at Vandy, she inherited a broken program. There wasn't much trust and there wasn't much talent. But five years later, she's turned the team around and Vanderbilt is on a roll. Shay's got a unique story and perspective that's helped drive her success at Vanderbilt. And in today's episode, you'll learn how she motivates her team to get great results without letting those results define who they are. Anchor down and enjoy this episode.
- [00:55]
David Novak
Now you and I are talking the week of March Madness as the tip offs are about ready and Vanderbilt is a number two seed as the leader. What's going on in your mind right now?
- [01:08]
Shay Ralph
I've been here before, so I, you know, not with this team, but this is what we do. This is the best part of the year when you play college basketball. This is the goal for many of the athletes and coaches that are blessed to play this game at this level. So really, for me, I think about how we prepare for these moments way in advance of meeting them. Right. So the preparation for the moment that we met yesterday and seeing our name on the screen as a number two seed, which we haven't seen yet before, was that we've earned it, but we have to continue to earn it every day and we stay super process oriented here. Focusing on the day to day is really important and it won't change now.
- [01:52]
David Novak
You are going on the big stage now and you see so many upsets, you know, I mean, you know, how do you get your team just to settle in and not change?
- [02:01]
Shay Ralph
For us, at least for me, it's just really focusing on what's right in front of you and the goal is to win. And you want to talk about the sweet 16 and all the matchups and that's what everyone's talking about, the storylines. But I had a dear friend of mine, a fellow coach, a colleague, like in this part of where we're at in our season, to the game of Tetris, right? So you play the game of Tetris and you have that one piece that's falling out of the sky and if you don't manage that piece well, then all the other ones aren't going to stack up. If you play it perfectly, then it eliminates the line and you get to play the next piece perfectly. So I'm looking at our season right now as a one game season. So we have to focus on that, right? Playing that game perfectly.
- [02:42]
David Novak
You know, when I was CEO, you know, unfortunately we had to worry about the quarterly earnings all the time and you know, sometimes we'd have a tough quarter and, you know, you had to get the team to bounce back. And in your particular situation, you just came off the SEC tournament and you had a tough loss to Ole Miss. What do you refuse to let your team believe right now? I mean, how do you get them, you know, I had the tough quarter every now and then. How do you get the team to bounce back and understand who they really are after a loss that, you know, I'm sure that they think they shouldn't have had?
- [03:19]
Shay Ralph
The way that I run our program, we are grounded in standards and values. We are grounded in truth. Not in narrative, not in what gets clicks on social media or what stories are being told. We are the only people who know what we are about. We are only the only people who have committed to those standards and values. And we are the ones that get to live them day in and day out. So that means that we may have an unfavorable result, but that doesn't define us. That game at Ole Miss didn't define who we are. We've had a great season. We didn't play well that game. We knew the things that, that we tripped up on. And when we do those things the way that we're capable of doing them, we are, we are a team capable of beating any team in the country. And when we're not, we can lose to anyone. And that's the truth. And so we didn't do that that day and it resulted in a loss.
- [04:08]
David Novak
And you know, one thing that I thought was kind of interesting because you, you seem to be very calm, mild mannered. You actually got thrown out of the game. I mean, has that ever happened before? And let me ask you, tell me the truth, was that like, did you do it on purpose? You know, Cause sometimes coaches will like, you know, throw the fit to get the team going because your team did go on a run after you got kicked out, you know, did you do it on purp.
- [04:35]
Shay Ralph
What?
- [04:35]
David Novak
You know, so no.
- [04:36]
Shay Ralph
It's so funny that's been the topic of conversation here the last week amongst my team and staff because I am, I am pretty reserved, you know, I, I am Competitive. I was trying to get a technical. I. I knew going out to half court that I was going to get a technical foul. I was unhappy with a lot of. Of the things that were outside of our control in that game. And I said something to a ref which I knew was going to get me a technical foul. But then I thought, well, I got the technical. I'm just going to say one more thing to this guy over here. And, you know, and then I got thrown out. That was not something that I was trying to do on purpose. Now when I watch back, I can see why people would think, because I probably shouldn't have said the next thing, but, you know, we're in the SEC conference and you got Kim Mulkey and Vic Schaefer and Don Staley. I'm like, I'm not going to get kicked out for this. And they kicked me out. But my team's response was incredible. And that's what I mean. Like, things happen the way that they should, and if I had known that they would respond that way, I would have gotten kicked out sooner.
- [05:37]
David Novak
That's funny. Well, you were having so much fun getting that technical. You just had to keep going. You couldn't stop. You know, do you have to do things to, like, keep your emotions in check when you go into a game and at times like this as a coach or you just let it roll?
- [05:55]
Shay Ralph
I've spent a lot of time, especially when I became a head coach, on learning how to manage my own emotions, manage my own expectations, my own competitive drive. Because at the end of the day, this isn't about me. This is their journey. This is the team that I have. They don't ever get these years back. And I've been coaching now for almost 25 years, and I'll have another team next year and the year after that, but this is the last time this team will be together. So when I first became a head coach, it took me a minute to figure out who I was, because I worked for Coach Arima and I played for Coach Arima, but my demeanor is not like his. And so I felt like I had to be something different than who I was to be a good head coach. And that actually proved to be very untrue. And I spent a lot of time. I'm very faithful, spiritual. So now I spend time in the morning just grounding myself in my faith, in my purpose and the things that make me who I am, that are outside of coaching, and that keeps me calm and available to show up for my team in any and Every way they need.
- [07:00]
David Novak
I gotta hear the story of how you got the nickname of Tournament Shay.
- [07:06]
Shay Ralph
Who told you that?
- [07:08]
David Novak
You know, I've got, you know, sources.
- [07:12]
Shay Ralph
Tournament Shay. It was the practices that, you know, after our conference tournament, I think just the level of attention to detail, the sense of urgency. I like competing. I love to win. And what's, you know, what's a better tournament to win or championship to win or trophy to win than March Madness, the NCAA tournament in women's basketball? That's when I knew I needed to play my best, and that's what I live for. Those moments as a competitor were what I lived for. So I would always ratchet up a notch. And just, like, you know, there's a sense of urgency here. I want to play great. I want to play great for my team. I want to win.
- [07:54]
David Novak
You won a lot when you're Connecticut as a player, a national champion, you know, six times as an assistant coach. What's the biggest leadership lesson, winning like that in such a big way taught you?
- [08:09]
Shay Ralph
There's no secret formula. I think when you are on the outside looking into the program that I was a part of at UConn and the way that we won the championships that we won, the fashion that we won them in, it's like, well, there's a reason, right? They have all the best players and their conference is weak, and, you know, all the excuses. But the reality was we just. We did the work really well, and this is the most important part. We had the right people. So you have lots of talent and skill in the world and business and sports and all the things, right, that we're trying to do. But you have to have the right people that have the intangible characteristics that you cannot give them, that you cannot coach them to have. They have to have them. And then you have to continue to inspire them and guide them to become better basketball players. But you can't coach those intangible qualities that make a winner a winner. You can't. And I thought that was what we did really well at UConn, was that we just brought winners into the program, and then we coached basketball.
- [09:12]
David Novak
And what's a national championship story? That gives us a peek into your leadership style.
- [09:17]
Shay Ralph
Gosh, I don't even know a national championship story or just a story.
- [09:21]
David Novak
A national. A national championship story. When you're on that big stage, you had the big game.
- [09:27]
Shay Ralph
What stuck out to me, especially when we won the first one when I was a player, it was so amazing, right? That moment of. We worked. I worked My whole life and this many years in college, and I had been through two ACLs and lots of really tough things, like all athletes go through. But then that moment leaves. You celebrate, you get the trophy, you go to the hotel, and then you wake up the next morning and you go to your parade, and it's like, okay, are you gonna do it again next year? And I was like, what? Yeah. Wow. That's it. We're just, you know, we're going to keep it moving. So I think two things about that that taught me was like, number one, we're going to celebrate everything along the way here. We're going to celebrate all the small victories, the ones that other people are like, okay, no big deal. We're going to celebrate them here because that's part of it. That's part of what this journey is leading us to when we get to where we're going, and that's championships. And the second part of it is, like, we're not gonna get too high and too low. So when, you know, when we win, when we lose, we're just gonna stick to, like, celebrating those things, and then we gotta get back to work. Cause either way, we're gonna learn something about ourselves. And there's always a way to improve.
- [10:38]
David Novak
You know, when I was at Pepsi and then at Yum Brands, we would hire people from these great companies like Procter and Gamble, great packaged goods companies like General Mills. And they had this great pedigree just like yours at UConn. You come from UConn, and they come in and they talk. When I was at Proctor, we did it this way. When I was at gm, we did, you know. You know, did you have to. Did you go through that? Did people get sick of hearing about UConn or how do you. How did you manage? How did you manage the fact that you had such a great pedigree and you had been a part of so many things that people get sick of hearing about UConn. Or do you even mention UConn?
- [11:15]
Shay Ralph
No, I try really hard not to here. I mean, it is such a huge part of my story. But also, UConn gave me the same thing that Vanderbilt's giving me, which was an opportunity. And so I do have this pedigree, but it was early on. It was tough. I will tell you the truth. I tried to run UConn's offense here my first year, and we were averaging 40 points a game, like, five games into the season. And it's like, okay, this. This isn't something like, I have to do this my way. I have to find out who I am as a coach, what I brought to the table, that contributed to all the success that we have. And that's important, right? I am not UConn. I am me. And what I brought to the table helped us win, I hope, helped us be really great. Help those players grow, and it'll be something that they remember for the rest of their basketball careers or hopefully their lives. It's the same thing I'm doing here. I just had to kind of ground myself. Who am I as a coach? What is important? What did I learn that I can help teach these young people about the game of basketball, about competing, about confidence, and about just kind of living a certain way so that they can be successful well beyond the years that they're playing in basketball. But you're right, initially, it was a little bit of a shock simply because I spent half my life there.
- [12:41]
David Novak
You know, you mentioned confidence, and I heard you talk about confidence in the sense that it's important to have elite confidence. You know, I hadn't heard anybody use that phrase before. But what does elite confidence mean to you?
- [12:56]
Shay Ralph
Elite confidence means that you trust your preparation, that you do the work necessary to have the results that you want, but that you're not defined by the results. Right? You. You trust your preparation. I'm going to work. I'm going to do all these things. You know, I'm going to. I'm going to make sure that I take care of my business, and I'm going to prepare, and then I'm going to go play this game. And whether we win or lose, it's not going to define me. It's not going to shake my confidence. It's not going to make me believe I'm something I'm not, whether that's better or worse than I actually am. You got to stay grounded in who you are. You got to know who you are, and you have to operate like that every single day, no matter what that is. Elite confidence.
- [13:42]
David Novak
And what was it, Shea, that that made you want to get into coaching to begin with?
- [13:46]
Shay Ralph
So when I was growing up in North Carolina, you know, we. We had. My mom was a basketball player at North Carolina, a really great one. And so I was in sports pretty early. I grew up in Fayetteville, and there wasn't a lot of, like, great female athletes at that time in that. In that space. But I knew that I wanted to be a great one and also knew, like, my path probably was going to be to get a scholarship, and I wanted to leave so that I could figure out who I was. Because my mom was, like, a big name in the area and had done a lot of great things. I wanted to bet on myself a little bit. And so when I went to UConn, I didn't know anybody. I had no idea what I'd gotten myself into. And, you know, I didn't have a car. I couldn't drive home because it was really hard. I wanted to leave early on. Like, this is. This is a lot more than I thought it was going to be. But the coaches that I had, the mentors that I had, I mean, from early on, always pushed me from grade school, middle school, high school, aau, and then I got to college. They changed my life because they wouldn't allow me to be anything less. They wouldn't allow me to give up on myself. They wouldn't allow me to not show up and do the things that I could do. And they guided me through all those tough moments. So I figure, what's a better path in life if I can't play basketball until I die, which I can't, then what's a better path in life to help someone else achieve their dreams and reach beyond their potential that they even knew was possible for themselves? Because of those people, my life was changed, and I want to do the same thing now.
- [15:21]
David Novak
That's great. And your first coaching job, as I understand it, was a pit. You know, what. What did that. What did that job teach you how
- [15:29]
Shay Ralph
to lose
- [15:32]
David Novak
and how do you lose?
- [15:35]
Shay Ralph
It taught me. It taught me how to lose without losing myself. It taught me. You know, we. We. I think I lost, like, 10 games in college in the five years I was there, and we lost 22 games my first year at Pitt, and I had no idea. Like, how do you continue to encourage kids? How do you continue to help them believe that they can accomplish things and keep their head above water? I had not seen any kind of losing like that ever in my life. But I knew that we were just trying to maximize our true, full potential as a team that we were then right, and then we were going to continue to build on that. So thank goodness for Agnes Baron Otto, the head coach there that hired me. I had no experience, and she and the staff that was there with her really helped me learn what it looked like to build a program. So at UConn, I was on the tail end of the building. They had already won a national championship, and. And I was, like, their first national recruit. But we. We didn't lose a lot. And at Pitt, we were talking about, our goal is a sweet 16 and we win six games in our first year. Like, how do you. What does that look like? And how do you marry the two? And how do you get from here to here? And I learned that there. I learned how to build a program, how to stay really focused on the process, how to infuse positivity when all that's happening is like negativity around the results, but you can see the growth. And it also taught me how to stay measured. Right? How to just stay measured as a coach and a human being and ground myself outside of the results is what we're preaching now. I learned that at Pittsburgh.
- [17:10]
David Novak
And then you. You go to UConn and you stay as an assistant for 13 seasons. And I thought that was fascinating. I mean, you know, I mean, to. I know coach or is a great coach and there's a lot to learn. And it was your Alma and all that. 13 seasons as an assistant, being in a support role, you know, I. When you're a leader, that had to be a little tough.
- [17:36]
Shay Ralph
I mean, not really. I think it wasn't for me. I can see how it would be tough for others. I felt like my role there was really important and, and that I was valued. I felt like I was learning every single year. It would be different if I didn't feel that. Coach Aryama at the time as well, was the Olympic coach. So he was spending a lot of time with USA Basketball. He was the Olympic coach for two straight Olympics. We had a lot of responsibility as assistants. He gave us a lot of responsibility. He wasn't a micromanager. He helped me grow into really learning how to be, you know, a head coach just by the ways that he trusted me and the responsibility he gave us outside of his actual role, which was really cool. And then, you know, it's also part of who I am. You know, I helped build that the things that I was doing on a day to day basis, to me mattered and they were valuable. And as long as I'm still learning, then I'm good where I'm at. And I knew at some point fate would tap me on the shoulder and that there would be an opportunity. And my only job outside of my job at UConn, of coaching, was to be prepared for that moment. I might not be ready, but I was going to be prepared because I was going to make sure that I did the work.
- [18:52]
David Novak
That's great. You know, I remember one of my mentors said, you know, I know you want to be a President or a CEO someday. Just, why don't you work on being a good one and then see what happens? You know, I thought that was pretty good. Well, you got some great experience there, and I imagine that you felt like a partner there.
- [19:11]
Shay Ralph
I did. I did. I felt like a partner. And, like, that's kind of the environment that I wanted to create here. Think anybody. Like, we all want to do great things, and somebody is going to be the leader. Right? Someone is going to be the head coach. But I know my weaknesses, and I know my strengths, and I need to be confident enough to put people around me who fill those gaps is exactly what I did at UConn, and I felt like I was really good at that. And then here I have. I have gaps as a head coach because I was an assistant for my whole career, and I'm learning those kind of as I go. But I have hired great people who are loyal, who fill those gaps, who are talented and skilled. But again, going back to what I said earlier about what the magic is at UConn is that they're great people. They're the right people for me to be able to do my job well. I know I need a team full of great people who can do their job well. Well as well.
- [20:05]
David Novak
So you go to Vanderbilt five years ago. What did you inherit when you walked in the door?
- [20:10]
Shay Ralph
Well, so when we got here, it was after Covid. So we got here in 2021. It was right after the bubble season. They had. You know, everyone was in the bubble, and this team had. Was a little bit broken. They were one of three teams, I think, in Division 1 that opted out of the season. There was a ton of injuries. There was a ton of uncertainty. I think the two of their best players, two or three of the best players, had already transferred out before I even got hired. It became more about healing and just really creating a safe environment where we could build the foundation of a culture that could be a championship culture and a winning culture. But it really started with just building relationships with the people here. And we didn't inherit a lot of winning, but we had inherited some really good people, and we had a strong community around us that gave us a great place to start.
- [21:04]
David Novak
What did you see that you knew you had to name out loud? Even back then when it was hard
- [21:09]
Shay Ralph
for people to hear, lack of connection, lack of trust, lack of talent, lack of a real understanding of what this looks like to be a part of and what we're capable of. And so that's what I mean, it wasn't even their fault. And so in that way, it shouldn't be hard to hear. We're just. We're all here now, so let's make sure that we bring our best to the table. And we've got to take four steps backwards and really start with our people and pour into our people so that when we start to coach them and teach them and guide them, they will trust us and they will follow us. But we have to start there. And so that was really it.
- [21:55]
David Novak
Once you define reality for your staff and your team, how'd you create enough hope that people would actually believe that things are gonna change? Because when you've got a history of losing or not being at the top, you gotta get people to believe. It's sort of like that Ted Lasso, where he puts the belief sign up on the wall.
- [22:19]
Shay Ralph
Yeah, I mean, it's probably twofold for me. The first is that Vanderbilt has a storied tradition of success. So before those five years before we got here, before I was hired, they were really, really good. They were going to, like, you know, I think it was somewhere in the 20s, 25 Street NCAA tournaments. They were going to Sweet 16s and Elite Eights. They won SEC championships. I hired assistant coach who was an all American here and won an SEC championship here and went to an elite eight. So someone who had walked in the shoes that our student athletes were wanting to walk in, and while the team that we took over had. Had lost a lot, I haven't, and Vanderbilt in general hasn't. And I think it was more just having faith in. Like, this is what we're here to restore. This is what we're here to revitalize, and this is how we're going to do it. I need you 100% on board because this train is moving in that direction and we're not going backwards. So if you want on this train, you got to be on board, and we're moving in that direction.
- [23:20]
David Novak
All right, throw me in, coach. I'm ready to go, you know, and before this season, Vandy was picked eighth in the preseason SEC poll. And you start out 20, and, oh, what does it feel like to be dissed like that? You know? And how did you use that lack of respect to drive your team? Or did you?
- [23:42]
Shay Ralph
Yeah, I don't. I don't care. Respectfully. I don't care where people rank us. I know that those things that you vote on are subjective. Coaches vote on that. They vote on awards. Awards that we get are voted on. And I know there's A lot of thought that goes into it. So I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I want to win things that you can't vote on. I care about the things you can't vote on. So where we are in the preseason poll, it doesn't matter to me. And, you know, until we continue to go in the direction we're going and do some of the things like we've done this year to make people understand exactly what we're capable of, that we're not going anywhere, that we are here to win championships, then that's where they're going to vote us. But as we continue to take steps in the right direction and check off boxes in order for us to be formidable and respectable, then they'll vote us what they vote us next year or the year after. I'm only concerned with where did we end up? Did we end up second? We ended up second. Right. I knew that this team was capable of that finish. I don't care what other people think, but I know what I think and I know what they think, and that's all that can matter to us.
- [24:50]
David Novak
You know, I've heard you say something that I found really interesting. I'm the weather. What do you mean by that?
- [24:56]
Shay Ralph
The way that I show up matters. So when you. We started talking earlier about how I have a calm demeanor and, you know, I am a certain way because that's what my group needs from me. When I come in here and I'm throwing lightning bolts and thunderclouds and my demeanor is not bringing great energy, I'm taking energy from people. They're walking on eggshells around me now. What's wrong with Coach? Oh, she's. Now, there's a time and a place for that. But if I'm angry, I'm going to tell you I'm angry and I'm going to tell you why. I'm going to be really direct about it. But when I show up every day, whether it's a great day or a tough day or a long day or a short day, I am the weather. When I walk in, I want people to feel like, hey, she's ready to go. It's sunshine today. Maybe some. A little wind gusts from time to time, you know, to get people moving. But I'm going to show up and be very, very, very dependable in the way that people can interact with me. And I'm not a moody person, and I don't want people that are moody around me. There's too much Going on environments, high pressure, high intense. I got to show up a certain way and I got to be that way all the time so that my team understands who I am and what they're going to get from me.
- [26:09]
Podcast Host (possibly Kula)
Hello, friends. I hope you're loving this conversation between David and Coach Ralph. As always, stay tuned to the very end of the episode. David and I are going to debrief some of the concepts that he talks about with Coach Ralph so that you have something really tangible that you can apply to your leadership and to your life. Enjoy the rest of this conversation. Conversation and I will see you at the debrief.
- [26:30]
David Novak
You referred to your faith a little bit earlier about how you use that to sort of ground you every day. Is there anything else you do to make sure that the weather report on you is pretty good? Every day?
- [26:44]
Shay Ralph
The weather report, it is my faith. 100% is the number one thing. And the second thing, 1A, my faith, my relationship with God. 1A is my family. I'm a mother. I have a seven year old daughter. I'm a wife. My mother moved here to live in this area so she could help with our daughter. My sister has three kids. We have family around the area. And then for me, no matter if I have a great day or a bad day, when I show up at home, I'm mommy and my daughter needs a snack and she needs me to give her a bath and will you watch a movie? And these are the days that I'm never going to get back. So I will, I will never take that for granted. But it's also been a great blessing for me to be a mom and a wife because it has taught me the true meaning of consistency and just showing up for the people that need you to show up for them, no matter what's going on for you.
- [27:42]
David Novak
And you know, as I understand it as well, in your program, your team created five standards and you had the team develop those standards with you or maybe by themselves. Tell us about the process you used to get ownership on what your team is really going to stand for.
- [28:03]
Shay Ralph
It's a great question. And we felt like we were missing that, you know, especially this year. I had come in and laid out the standards and the values as the head coach. And my staff had done work around it and we just kind of gave them to our team like this is what we're about. And I did feel like there was a lack of ownership around those. And so as we were brainstorming last summer about how we could help them understand that they needed to Take more ownership, the idea of them coming up with them, but the process of it, not just like, we're going to do this one day, right? It was a week long, weeks long process, and we involved ourselves just a little bit. But then I connected them with a former general here that works at Vanderbilt, that has a military scholar program at Vanderbilt and works with a bunch of the teams here in terms of team building and leadership councils. He has been such a blessing to our program. He came in and just kind of like, I think when we removed ourselves from the room, the players felt like they could have more open conversations with themselves. They were able to kind of bounce some ideas off of General Brower and his experience in war and leading a group of young men, just like we were leading them and just like they were trying to lead each other. All of that turned into them defining who they wanted to be this year. This is who we want to be. These are our standards, and we're going to talk about them and live them every single day. And it was really, really cool. It kind of took on a life of its own, but the process of it was awesome to witness.
- [29:43]
David Novak
Now, I understand you get to pick one of those. What was yours?
- [29:47]
Shay Ralph
Be a good person.
- [29:49]
David Novak
Be a good person and give me a couple examples of the others.
- [29:52]
Shay Ralph
Be a good person is mine. The team's was be a soldier. Positive voice, unity and belief.
- [30:00]
David Novak
One thing I know you obviously do is you watch a lot of film. You gotta watch a lot of film. You know, do you watch a lot of film at. On what you do as a coach as well? I mean, I know players watch film and you watch other teams, whatever, but do you. Do you learn from film yourself?
- [30:20]
Shay Ralph
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And listen and I. And this is really important. There isn't anything that I'm going to ask my players to do that I won't also do myself. So if I'm asking them, you know, review film, get in here and work harder. These are skills that you don't have that you need to build. I am doing the same kind of reflective exercises for myself after games in preparation, specifically when, you know, I'll look at different lineups that we have in or timeouts that I've called or situational things that, you know, I'm not in the moment. You know, I know what we did, but I don't know that we prepared for that moment. And so, like, the games will show me. All right. What are things that we need to work a little bit more on, but also, were we correctly prepared for this moment have I been preparing them? How did I manage our substitutions? How did I manage our timeouts? And that's been really valuable for me and has really helped me grow.
- [31:18]
David Novak
We were talking earlier, and you're a student of leadership and you're constantly learning about how to lead. And I understand you have a leadership council who's on it, and how do you earn the right to be on your council?
- [31:34]
Shay Ralph
I think we have five or six of our players on there. Most of them are veterans. So I have my seniors, my two seniors that have been here with me four and five years. I have our graduate transfer, she's on there. I have our senior, that Justine Pizzat, she's on there. She's been here for three years. Michaela, our sophomore, and then Madison Green, another sophomore. Who are rising leaders. Right. So I chose. They really chose them. I had them list out who they thought the leaders were, and it was anonymous on our team. And then after getting their input, I put the people in the room that I felt like would be the best voices for the team. Right. So you can't, you know, for us, I wanted to make sure that we had enough leaders in the room where we could continue to build it after our seniors graduate. But also who would be the right voice for the right person at the right time. And that can't just be one or two people. It's too much work. Right. There has to be people in there that can. That can be that for the team, but it also can be that for each other. And the lessons that they're learning together I thought were valuable for them as well. They are also still growing as leaders. So it was more of a. Of a training, like, let's train you how to lead yourself first and lead each other first, and then we can talk about how we're going to lead the team together.
- [32:58]
David Novak
You mentioned earlier, when you're a child, you had a great role model. Model. Your mother was a trailblazer in women's basketball, you know, highly accomplished. I know that she's in the hall of Fame in North Carolina, and. But you said, hey, I'm going to go out and blaze my own trail, which I love. Do you have another story from your childhood that really tells us a little bit about how you became the leader you are today?
- [33:28]
Shay Ralph
There's so many people that were part of my childhood, and I think there's a lot of stories that made me who I am. And what I remember is that there were people who saw me, right? So there was a coach, he ran a Bunch of camps. Austin Lehman, who challenged me really hard, and I would go to his camps, and I was always playing with the boys, or he would compare me to the boys, or he would put me up against the boys. And it was an impossible feat for me. Right? Like, I'm not going to win this. And he would continue to push me to be better and to not compare myself and what I thought was really cool about. And I tell you that specific story. He still keeps in contact with me. He still text messages me. He watches the games. He has his opinions, and I love that because that's how he always was. But at that time in my life, I felt like. And he was one of them. There were several. He really saw me. He didn't gloss over, oh, all the awards and let me make this easy for you, and you're so great. He really saw me and pushed me and. And challenged me, but. And he would also comfort me in moments where he knew that I needed it with just a conversation or something like that. But I think that my leadership style really lends itself towards, like, I. I was. I wasn't quite sure. You know, I. I knew I wanted to be great, but I was also being pulled in different directions at that time in my life. Like, do I. Am I going to be a cheerleader? Do I want to be. You know, am I going to be part of this group with all the girls that are all really cool, or am I going to be in the gym and do what I'm going to do? And so when there are people that see you for who you are and continue to pour into you, that made a difference. And I feel like that has made me the leader that I am, because I try to do the same thing here.
- [35:22]
David Novak
And you went on to become an incredible player at UConn, but your career was riddled with injuries. I couldn't believe it when I found out you tore your ACL five times by the age of 23. What did going through that kind of physical adversity teach you about leading through pain?
- [35:41]
Shay Ralph
You got to take care of your body as an athlete, and I just thought I could outwork everything. I thought the harder I worked, the better I would be, and that just wasn't the case. You know, I needed to take a little bit better care of my body. I needed to fuel it better. There was things I could have done differently, but I was so stubborn because I wanted to get back out on the court. I mean, I was stubborn as a mule, and I don't know why I had 5 ACLs. I just knew that I was determined to play. And another reason why I'm so grounded in my faith now is like, yeah, no, I'm tapping you on the shoulder, and if you need me to tap you another time, I will. But this isn't your path. And leading through pain. I'm not afraid of pain. I loved playing really hard. I felt like that helped my team. The people around me inspired them because I would play through anything. I'd wrap everything up and tape everything. I got so mad if I got pulled out of practice. But it gave me an idea of what it looks like to be a great leader because I'm going to show up for you. I'm going to show up, but also I need to learn how to do it, maybe in a more intelligent way. It turned me into the path of coaching. So it was. It was really hard to go through all those injuries. I didn't get to play professionally. That's something that I will never be able to do. But now I get to be part of someone else's dream to play professionally. And I think that's what I was built for.
- [37:04]
David Novak
What was it like, though, before you developed maturity, where you can say, I think that's what I was built for? When. When. When your dream is shattered, you know, you want to play in the NBA, but you don't get to play in the wnba, you know, when your whole world seems to, like, just get crash, you know, because, you know, how'd you. How'd you deal with that?
- [37:24]
Shay Ralph
Yeah, I didn't deal with it very well. I was pretty angry, I don't think. I watched basketball for like a year after my last acl. I was trying to finish school, had no idea what I wanted to do. I was kind of hopping around from thing to thing and not really invested in any of it. And it was all in Connecticut while I was rehabbing. But what it did give me as I came out of that fog a little bit was, number one, I am not a basketball. My identity is not just a basketball player. And I didn't know that until that point. I had not built an identity outside of being a basketball player, which led me to my faith. It led me to, this can't be what happens when I don't get things that I work for. This isn't who I am. I am something much greater than this, much bigger than this. My purpose is much greater than this. But it also fueled me to want to coach because I feel like every athlete needs that at some point, whether it's on your terms or not, the ball is going to stop bouncing. You're not going to be able to go back out on the field. Your career as an athlete is going to be over. Now, what's next for you? Who are you after that? And we need to make sure that they can define that here and now, especially in the world that we live in with social media and all the narratives that people are going to want to talk about a bad performance, a good performance. You are not that you are a great basketball player, but you're a human being with lots of other skill and talents, a child of God, all the things. And you're going to have a long career after you stop playing sports. We got to figure out what that passion is for you and pour into that as well.
- [39:04]
David Novak
You're blessed enough to become a coach, you know, and pursue the. This. This goal of yours to help others get to the WNBA or just become the kind of a good person. I love that as being the one thing that you pick. Just be a good person. I think that's really cool. And, you know, you know what it takes to build a dynasty. I mean, you've been. You've seen it close up front and personal. When you were at UConn, I was just curious if you had a story from Coach Auriemmo where you really got that moment where he kind of changed the way you think about leadership just by what he did. As you were learning how to coach, do you recall a story where you
- [39:48]
Shay Ralph
go, whoa, yeah, there's a couple of them. He was masterful and is masterful at pressing the right buttons to. To get every single ounce of potential out of players. But one of the things I remembered when I coached, when I played for him, I just thought he was angry all the time. Like, why is he so angry all the time? He comes in here pissed off, and it's like, you know, I don't understand that. When I started working for him in the meetings that we would have, it was like, he really cares, and he's trying to figure out ways that he can show up and make the team better. And because at that time, we were so good. I mean, we went on like 111 game win streak, and no one could even come close to beating us. When we played really well, he felt like he had to be the opponent. You know, I'm the opponent. I have to be really hard on them every single day so they don't get caught up in all of this stuff. And there were several practices. I remember one where we were playing five on eight in the half court and he was allowing the eight defenders to trap the offensive players and we weren't allowed to dribble. And it was like turnover, turnover, kicked ball. Like it was mass chaos. And I walked over to him and I said, listen, you know, like we're not going to. He goes, I know. I said, okay. He's like, this is supposed to be hard. And then, you know, I think, you know, when we got back the next game we played, it was like, it felt like we were playing five on zero because everything was so much easier. It was just a very eye opening moment for me and like how we continue to make things so impossible for our team so that they could actually achieve success.
- [41:36]
David Novak
And so now what is it going to take for you to build a dynasty at Vandy? I mean, you're obviously, you know, building your program up. Great year, coach of the year, all this, you know, I mean, how do you take it to that, to that kind of consistency?
- [41:52]
Shay Ralph
The world that we live in now, the landscape that we live in now, it's, it's, you know, I have to do my job really well. We have to recruit great talent and we have to coach and you know, and, and we're going in the right direction. But what it takes to build a dynasty is much bigger than that in college sports anymore. I think one of the things that I will never ever, no matter what the landscape does or changes or stays, is build relationships. Because in the world that we live in now, kids can just jump from school to school and they're treated, these are kids in college, we're treating them like commodities and it's a great opportunity that they have to earn money and it's the right thing, you know, nil. Like March Madness is one of the most money making tournaments, you know, sporting events in the world. So it's the right thing. But we still have to build relationships and teach them how to overcome adversity, teach them the value of delayed gratification that comes through community and leadership. It comes through investment from our athletic director, our department, our chancellor, our university. It doesn't look like dollars. You need that too. But you need people. You need to surround them with people so that you can continue to retain athletes, coach them, continue to bring in talent, because they see that we're different. We have all of these things that they need to be great. And my hope is that as we continue on the path that we're on, that people will recognize that we are different and that we will be able to build a dynasty. Because that is the goal.
- [43:23]
David Novak
This has been so much fun, Shay. And I want to have some more with my lightning. Round of questions. Are you ready for this?
- [43:28]
Shay Ralph
I'm ready. I'm ready.
- [43:29]
David Novak
Three words that best describe you.
- [43:31]
Shay Ralph
Aggressive, Humble. Smart.
- [43:33]
David Novak
If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?
- [43:37]
Shay Ralph
My husband. Sometimes I just want to think. I want to know what he's thinking.
- [43:43]
David Novak
Your biggest pet peeve?
- [43:44]
Shay Ralph
People chewing gum like this.
- [43:48]
David Novak
I hate that, too. Who would play you in a movie?
- [43:52]
Shay Ralph
How about Jennifer Garner?
- [43:53]
David Novak
There you go. There you go. What's the toughest arena to play in?
- [43:58]
Shay Ralph
I would say Gampel Pavilion or South Carolina.
- [44:02]
David Novak
Who's the best teammate you ever had?
- [44:04]
Shay Ralph
It's probably a tie. Carla Barubi. Stacy Hansmeier. Paige Sauer.
- [44:08]
David Novak
What's something you've been curious about lately that has absolutely nothing to do with work?
- [44:14]
Shay Ralph
I am so curious about music and art and how people. Is that something you can learn or is that a gift? Because I would love to learn how to play an instrument or how to be some sort of creative, but I'm not sure I have that. So I have been curious about that lately.
- [44:33]
David Novak
What's the one thing you do just for you?
- [44:36]
Shay Ralph
I go to yoga.
- [44:37]
David Novak
Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession?
- [44:40]
Shay Ralph
My wedding ring. It was handed down from my grandmother, and funny story, it's a Vanderbilt diamond.
- [44:47]
David Novak
Is that right?
- [44:48]
Shay Ralph
That is so Daniel Diamond.
- [44:50]
David Novak
If I turned on the radio on your team bus on the way to a big game, what would I hear?
- [44:55]
Shay Ralph
Some songs with words that you should not be hearing anywhere.
- [45:00]
David Novak
What's something about you few people would know?
- [45:02]
Shay Ralph
I'm a vegan.
- [45:03]
David Novak
What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss?
- [45:07]
Shay Ralph
My time with God. My devotional time.
- [45:09]
David Novak
Well, that was great. Lightning round. Good job. And I just have a few more questions and I'll let you go. You know, you've been very open, Shay, about your battle with anorexia in high school and in college, and that's a fight you said never fully goes away. How does having walked through something like that, which is so personal and so difficult, how has that impacted the way you lead and care for people around you?
- [45:40]
Shay Ralph
Number one is you just never know what people are going through. And it's one of the reasons why I'm so relationship oriented, because I feel like I can't be a great coach if I don't know you. And I need to be able to build trust in that way. Also, when you lead young women there's just. There's a lot going on in the world, and I don't think it makes our young women weak. But one of the reasons I got myself into trouble is just by comparison. I just. I just compared and. And I thought that if I could control this one thing, then it would make me better. And I don't want my young women, I can't control that part of it, but I don't want them to ever compare themselves to anyone else. I want them to be secure and who they are. And it changed me as a human, but it changed me as a leader. So I think in order for people to really believe that and to dive into uncertainty and failure with a good attitude, they need to know that they're cared for, that they're loved, regardless of the result, that we're going to continue to push them. But that's really, really important to me because I think if they don't have that, if our young women don't have that, then it could be anything that derails them. And I don't want their talent, their potential future, their gifts to ever be derailed by something so easy as a relationship could take care of.
- [47:01]
David Novak
You know, you and your, Your. Your husband, Tom Garrick, who played in the NBA, coached at Vanderbilt before you arrived here, and now coaches alongside you every day. You have a very unique partnership, for sure. I mean, and what have you two built together that you couldn't have built alone?
- [47:19]
Shay Ralph
Everything. Everything that we have right now. I mean, our lives, our family, this program. I am. I am not nearly, you know, as experienced as he is. And he had a lot of head coaching experience. I had a lot of championship experience. He was a really great player as well. He was a sitting Division 1 head coach when we took this job together. And there's a lot going on around. He's working technically for me, but that's not how we approach it. And honestly, that's not how I approach it with any of my staff members. We are working together, but there isn't anything that I do that his hand isn't in, and vice versa. We're just a really good team, and, you know, we complement each other well. Our styles are very different, and that can be challenging. But that's the beauty of it, you know, is that whatever our team needs, whatever our staff needs, we either, either one of us has it. You just have to know who to go to. But we're solid. And in terms of our family, I mean, we have this huge family. We have lots of people coming up this weekend, we should have something so special both at work and at home that we would never have if it
- [48:32]
David Novak
weren't for each other and your parents and you're a mom. And how do you think about leadership at home, Shay?
- [48:40]
Shay Ralph
We're pretty traditional at home. I love being a mom and a wife, and I think we're just partners as well, but respectful. We want to make sure that we show our daughter what it looks like to have a healthy relationship, to have a healthy love, to have healthy boundaries, and to understand what it looks like to be loved and cared for. She is, you know, she's got it tough because our eyes are always on her, but we are unified as parents. And I absolutely love being a wife and a mom. It has just changed my life.
- [49:14]
David Novak
And your mom travels with you to the games. You know, you have your mom come to the games. You know that. How has that relationship changed and evolved over time? Because I imagine when you were a kid, you were independent, you wanted to get the point, and now here you are back together. What's that feeling like when you see your mom in the arena?
- [49:34]
Shay Ralph
It's really cool as you get older. My mom, she's in her. She's going to be 73 this year. And our roles have changed, our lives have changed, our relationship has changed. But she laid a lot of the foundation of what women's basketball is experiencing right now in general. Right. So, like, she played at North Carolina and she had to drive the bus, and she'll tell you all the stories. Like, she had four different coaches in four years and they didn't have a locker room. And now all the things that I put her through when I was tough to raise. I told you, I was stubborn. I put her through a lot. And now seeing her be able to be part of my daughter's life and my life and witness, like, firsthand what's happening with our sport and the eyes that are on it and the things that these players are experiencing and the joy that she has in all of that has been so cool. It's been so cool.
- [50:28]
David Novak
And, you know, here you are now. You're one of the best coaches in college basketball. You know, when you think back, you know, walking into Vanderbilt five years ago, what have you become as a leader through the process that you weren't when you walked in the door? I mean, how have these last five years really changed you as a leader?
- [50:47]
Shay Ralph
Truly? Because I say this word, but I truly am this word now. I'm resilient as a leader now. Resilient. And I think that really matters because so many things can change from year to year. And I know who we are here. I know what we're trying to accomplish. And I know that it's not going to always be be what we want. But we understand that and we know that as long as we continue to do things the right way to get the right people in here, then nothing's going to get in our way. So I'm not going to let the ups and downs fly me off the handle or get us into a place where the weather's not good. Up here, the weather's great because we're resilient.
- [51:33]
David Novak
Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?
- [51:39]
Shay Ralph
Remember that you're not alone. To study leadership, to listen to your podcast, to read books, to remind yourself daily and however that looks like, of who you are outside of your leadership role. But to continue to give yourself tools to be a better leader. And in order to do that, you have to have self awareness. That makes all the difference, whether it's for yourself or people around you. Keep your head down, do the work, have self awareness, know who you are outside of that. And my guess is when you pick your head back up, you'll be a better leader.
- [52:14]
David Novak
Well, Coach, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed this conversation. I wish you all the best in this tournament and the tournaments ahead. I know the outcome will be what it's going to be, but the process that you have and your belief in people and the way way that you're supposed to get there, it's definitely textbook in any leadership book that I've ever read.
- [52:36]
Shay Ralph
Yeah, well, thank you. I'm honored. I really enjoyed this time with you. Thank you so much,
- [52:46]
Podcast Host (possibly Kula)
David. As an alumna of Vanderbilt, I got to start this debrief conversation by saying anchor down.
- [52:52]
David Novak
Did you actually go to Vanderbilt? I didn't know you were that smart.
- [52:56]
Podcast Host (possibly Kula)
Shocking to most people. I did in fact go to Vanderbilt.
- [53:00]
David Novak
My daughter went to Vanderbilt too, so you guys have that in common.
- [53:03]
Podcast Host (possibly Kula)
I love this conversation with Shay. Obviously, I'm a huge Vanderbilt fan, but what she's done with the program is so impressive. And David, I love conversations anytime we have them with coaches in sports. And I want to get your perspective on some of the things that Shay talked about in this episode and how our listeners can apply those insights to their own leadership and to their own life. And the first thing I want to talk about is, you know, the importance of a leader, knowing when they need to be present and when they need to leave the room. Shay talks about the process of how her team developed their own team values. And she says that things really shifted when she left the room and when she wasn't around for that conversation. As a leader, how do you know when you should step away from something so that it can grow and flourish?
- [53:50]
David Novak
Well, you know, sometimes your team will tell you to. We had a podcast recently with John Donahue, the former CEO of Nike. And, you know, he talked about how his team went to offer an off site, and they were meeting, and they said, hey, John, we'd like you to step out because we need to talk together as a team. And when he came back in, they had developed a contract on how they were going to work together because they felt like that they hadn't been working together the way. How they needed to work together to get the kind of performance that the company needed. And John said it was so powerful because they came to their own conclusion. I've always believed that any idea that someone comes up with on their own, there's. There's more ownership of it. And, you know, I think, you know, there are times when a leader needs to step away and let their team get the ownership. That's. That. That's required. And, you know, I. I've done that in times where there. I knew there was a lot of strife on. On the team over a particular issue, and I walked away so that they could have the comfort of getting it all out without me having to judge. And then when I came back, they had the solution. I think in Shay's case, she wanted people to really own the team culture. She wanted her players to really step up. She said she got to pick one of the core behaviors that they wanted to have, but they developed the others. And by. By doing that, you follow what I think is the law of leadership, which you got to remember, if you have no involvement, you have no commitment. So she could come in and say, hey, look, these are the five behaviors that we need to do. And the players that they. Oh, okay, okay, okay. But the players didn't develop. They didn't have any chance to have any input. They wouldn't own it. She's smart enough to know that if they come up with the behaviors, the people will. Will own it. And, you know, I think that's. That's the real point here. You know, leaders need to be present. Obviously. You know, you got to be present. You got to be out there. You got to let people know you're. You're with them. You got to be a coach, you know? You know, that's. That's what. That's something that we. We. We all need to. Need to do. But you got to find whatever way you can to get ownership of something, and sometimes that means you don't need to be there. And, you know, I think that's a very powerful thing to remember.
- [56:37]
Podcast Host (possibly Kula)
It reminds me of the stories that you tell, David, about your time at yum, when you would go up to someone and say, you know, how do you think I'm doing? And they would say, oh, David, you're doing a great job. And then you would ask them again, say, how do you think I'm doing? And they would say, oh, David, you're doing a great job. And then you'd ask them a third time, and then finally they would say, well, you know, I think that maybe you could do this a little bit differently. So as a leader, it's the same concept. You have to understand that a lot of times, if you're present, you can't really get down to the nitty gritty of what's happening or what people are really believing unless you give them that time to discover it on their own.
- [57:10]
David Novak
Yeah. And you got to have a process that will get it out of people. And that's why I would always say ask three questions. Sometimes you have to ask four to get it out of there. The other thing you have to do with a team is you always have to be able to snap about the conflict. You know, one of the great things that you need to do as a leader is you got to be good at really driving productive conflict. And if, you know there's issues on the team, you got to get those things out on the day on the table so it can be. Be resolved. But that's. That's. That's a great example when the leader has to be in the room, because people would probably be just, you know, smiling at each other, you know, acting like everything's great. But the leader knows what people are really thinking. Because a lot of times the leaders come in, they have their people come into their office and tell them what they're thinking. But then when they get in the room with everybody else, they don't. They don't get the conflict out there. And so if you know what's going on with your team, you can make sure that the issues are raised so you can have the kind of productive conflict that'll get to get you to the best solution.
- [58:11]
Podcast Host (possibly Kula)
Another thing that's really obvious about Shay and the way that she coaches is that she never wants her team to define itself by their results, whether the, whether they're good or bad. But of course, in sports and in business, results matter obviously. How, as a leader do you walk that line?
- [58:28]
David Novak
I think she doesn't want people to, to define themselves just, just by the results that they, they generate. You know, but believe me, the, the key there is just by, okay, you know, just by the results. But because believe me, Shay likes winning. I mean, she is very, very competitive. She's been winner her entire life and she's got this team now on a roll and it's taken her five years to really build the kind of program she wants at Vanderbilt. So she loves, she loves winning much more than she did when she was an assistant coach at Pitt where she was losing all the time. When she talked about learning how to lose, you know, and you know, you learn when the best way to learn how to lose is to learn from when you lose. And that helped her become a better coach. But, you know, I think what Shay is really saying is, yeah, come on team, we want to have put wins on the board. But I'm here with you because I care about you as a person. I care about the whole person, not just part of you, not the basketball part. I want to make you a, a better person. I want you to leave Vanderbilt with a great degree. I want you to leave Vanderbilt with a great experience with your team members. I want you to look back on these days and say, this is where I really developed and became a better person. And I think the best coaches, the best leaders let people know that they care about them and that they, they don't just care about their output, they care about them as a person, person. And that's what she's really saying. And when people know that you care about them, you know, Sam Walton said, and I've said this many times, nobody will care about you until you care about them. When people know that you care about them, they're going to be committed to you, they're going to be inspired by you, and you're going to get much better results. So in the end, you know that, that, that focus on the person is basically building people capability, helping that person be a better person. And I, as you know, I always say, the formula for success is put people capability first. Then you satisfy more customers, get more, and that's how you get more, make more money, care about your players. That's how you, you get more wins. You know, that's how you end up being in the NCAA tournament and potentially winning a national championship.
- [60:51]
Podcast Host (possibly Kula)
That spirit of caring about the whole person is really part of sharing Shay's demeanor as a person and as a coach. And it kind of segues into this next topic that I want to debrief with you, David. And I love how in the episode, Shay says that she is the weather, meaning her mood as a leader really sets the tone for everyone else. Explain that concept.
- [61:14]
David Novak
I love this idea of, she says, I am the weather. I always say that's the shadowing, casting, the shadow of leadership. She recognizes that what she does really projects the kind of energy that will be transferred over to whoever she touches that day. And so she tries to get herself in the right, right place so that when she goes to work, she goes to the gym, you know, she's going to be positive. She's going to have that contagious energy that inspires. She's going to. She's going to be able to pump people up. She's not going to be the Eeyore, the downer. You know, she doesn't want that to happen. So for her, the way how she does it is she. She relies on her faith, you know, and that, That a lot of people do that, you know, they'll get. They'll spend private time, they'll pray and they'll. They'll. They'll be thankful and they'll get gratitude, you know, but she finds a way to make sure that. That the weather's good, that the wet, that she's. She's got a great weather report, you know. You know, she's, you know, the weatherman's saying, you know, it's sunny out there, no clouds in the sky, and, you know, we're going to get things done. And so, yeah, that doesn't mean she's always positive all the time, because there's time when she's got to show some frustration with the team. And, you know, that's when those storms coming in, man, because you, you know, she's kind of. You kind of, you know, you have made Shay too happy. So you better. You better get your acting together. So she has some stormy weather every now and then. We all do. Okay. But I think by and large, she wants to come in and be positive. And, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about how she just conveys the power of belief in the person, and, you know, she's interested in the whole person, you know, and I saw that at the end of the interview with me because she didn't just get off get off the mic and leave the computer. She said, hey, you know what? That was really fun. That was really good. I really enjoyed it. And I learned. I learned a lot, you know, you know, from listening to your podcast in the past. And do you have any advice for me from what you heard, you know, and what did that show? That show that she. She. She cared about me to a certain extent as a person, or at least she cared about what I had to say, and that made me feel very valued, and I bet she does that with everybody she touches, and that's why she's great. You know, she's partners with her.
- [63:42]
Shay Ralph
Her.
- [63:42]
David Novak
Her husband, who coaches, and he's been a professional coach. She said he's a lot better coach than. Than. Than she. She is. But she went on and on about the, you know, the power they have together, and, you know, she knows how to make people feel valued and respected. And it's genuine. It's not. There's nothing fake about this woman. She's a very genuine person. I'm honored I got a chance to meet her.
- [64:13]
Podcast Host (possibly Kula)
I love this concept, too, David, because you don't have to have an official leadership position in order to assume this. This role as setting the tone for the people around you. And I think the more that we know how our attitude and disposition and outlook and perspective affects those around us, the more we're able to lean into our own strengths and help other people lean into theirs as well. So I just. I love this concept of being in the weather. And like you said, I mean, she's like, there are days when I go in the locker room and my players better get ready for a big old gust of wind, because they know that I'm not going to be all sunshine today.
- [64:50]
David Novak
And the other thing, too, Kula, is think about your energy level when you smile. It's kind of hard to be down when you smile. If you force yourself to smile, it's kind of hard to be down. We happen to work with a guy who smiles all the time. His name is Tim. Sure. And he. He's just so positive, it's ridiculous. I've never met anybody so positive in my life, but it's amazing how he wins people over through his positive energy and his smiles and, you know, because people want to be around people like that, and, you know, he has a contagious energy that makes it work, and I think that's what all leaders really want to have.
- [65:23]
Podcast Host (possibly Kula)
Well, David, another great episode of How Leaders Lead Anchor down. Thank you so much for listening, and we will see you next week.