#288: James “JC” Curleigh, CEO, Pelican Products – How to reframe what you sell

Summary

Podcast Summary: How Leaders Lead with David Novak

Episode #288: James “JC” Curleigh, CEO, Pelican Products – How to reframe what you sell
Date: April 23, 2026
Host: David Novak
Guest: James “JC” Curleigh, CEO of Pelican Products

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Overview

This episode of How Leaders Lead spotlights James “JC” Curleigh, CEO of Pelican Products—maker of the iconic, near-indestructible cases used by professionals and adventurers worldwide. Host David Novak and JC dig into how leaders and brands can reframe what they sell, expanding their relevance and potential. JC shares brand evolution lessons from leading Salomon, Levi’s, Gibson, and Pelican, covering topics like aggressively patient decision making, the “helicopter vision” of leadership, and why having “two plan As” beats a Plan B.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pelican’s Evolution: From Cases to “Protection”

[00:38—09:02]

• JC describes Pelican’s origin: Not just a product, but an enabler for hero customers—adventurers, military, filmmakers.
• Quote:

  “We’re not the heroes. The heroes are all the folks out there doing what they do. We enable and empower the mission to be accomplished at Pelican.”
  (JC, 01:32)

• Pelican originated with a first aid kit, then cases, and is now synonymous with protection: crushproof, dustproof, waterproof solutions trusted globally.
• Personal stories: JC “stalks” travelers with Pelican cases to hear how they use them, learning that sometimes a Pelican case marks a professional’s arrival and boosts confidence—whether for a photographer, collector, or military professional.
  • Memorable moment: Story of a woman whose Pelican case elevated her perception and confidence as a photographer.
• Quote:

  “She thought the Pelican was her code for, 'she’s arrived in her profession.'”
  (JC, 03:25)

2. Pelican’s “Re-Evolution” Strategy

[09:02—13:27]

• JC inherited a globally recognized but “full of potential” company and reframed the opportunity:
  • Pelican 1.0: 50 years of industry leadership.
  • Pelican 2.0: Accelerate growth by reinforcing what works, recalibrating what needs improvement, and reimagining future opportunities.
  • Leverages the “Power of Three” in his message triangle:
    • Reinforce, Recalibrate, Reimagine.
  • Moves beyond “share of cases” to “share of protection.”
• Quote:

  “What got you here won’t get you there.”
  (JC, 09:31)

3. Reframing What You Sell

[13:27—15:37]

• Formerly waited for market demand (e.g., a new drone) before developing cases; now proactively envisions full Pelican “collections”—for business missions, adventures, family safety.
• Pelican aims to not just serve professionals but empower everyone’s “mission,” e.g., family travel and disaster preparedness.

4. From Small Moments to Momentum

[15:37—21:15]

• JC believes in “moments to momentum”—small events build into larger company shifts.
• Example: Wildfires near Los Angeles inspired Pelican Prepare—a disaster prep kit for families, developed and launched in 100 days, changing Pelican’s pace and innovation culture.
• Quote:

  “We can do more to make every homeowner a first responder.”
  (JC, 16:57)

5. Patiently Aggressive Decision-Making

[21:15—24:19]

• JC’s concept: “Aggressively patient” (or “patiently aggressive”)—decide whether to move fast or wait, depending on if “conditions for success” are in place.
• Quote:

  “If you’ve set the right conditions for success to be aggressive, then get after it. If you haven’t, exercise a little patience.”
  (JC, 21:48)

6. Managing Creativity and Sequencing Ideas

[24:19—26:47]

• JC’s lessons learned: As CEO, his “whisper is a shout”—even passing ideas can trigger action from teams.
• Uses “Power of Three” to help teams focus: reinforce the core, recalibrate, then earn the right to reimagine.
• Stresses the critical balance between creativity and commercial outcome; his background bridges marketing/creative and finance.

7. Setting Conditions for Success

[27:05—28:55]

• Leaders can’t guarantee success but can set better conditions:
  • Clear vision and strategy.
  • Right leaders.
  • Prioritizing and pacing.
• Sports analogy: “Luck favors those who are well positioned.”

8. From Inverted to Inspired Synergy

[28:46—30:48]

• At Levi’s, discovered “inverted synergy”: the whole was less than the sum of the parts. Shifted the company to “inspired synergy,” multiplying its potential.

9. Stakeholder Alignment

[31:13—33:39]

• JC now proactively aligns expectations with all stakeholders: investors, customers, community, and team.
• Regular, honest dialogue prevents misalignment and tough conversations down the road.

10. Helicopter Vision: Seeing the Whole Picture

[35:49—39:38]

• Inspired by his naval aviator father: Leaders must “fly up” for perspective and “land” for hands-on solutions.
• Quote:

  “Helicopter vision... you can hover up and down into a situation and engage accordingly.”
  (JC, 38:46)

11. Brand Reframing Lessons from Major Companies

[39:38—48:07]

• Keen Footwear: Shifted from “toe-protected sandal” to “hybrid living” brand.
• Salomon: From “share of ski” to “share of mountain.”
• Levi’s: From denim leader to “center of culture” (music and sports): pivotal moment = Levi’s Stadium.
• Gibson: From bankruptcy and only guitars to “share of sound”—pursuing broader musical relevance.
• Each pivot involved looking beyond product features, focusing on the aspirational or cultural “share” the brand stood for.

12. Lightning Round: Personal Insights

[48:14—52:21]

• Three words to describe JC: Energy, Approachable, Empathetic.
• Twin brother would play him in a movie.
• Most prized possession: Gibson 1966 J45 guitar.
• Triple citizen: U.S., Canada, UK.
• Obsession about how restaurants function—every meal as a performance review.

13. Leadership at Home & Role of Family

[52:28—54:53]

• Strives not to bring work home, sets clear family boundaries, and credits spouse with teaching him how hard and vital personal pivots can be in life.

14. Learning from Failure

[55:10—56:56]

• Biggest lesson: All leadership roads lead to people. Hard moments often stem from waiting too long (or moving too fast) on tough personnel decisions. The key is clarity, empathy, and directness.

15. Final Leadership Advice

[57:07—58:02]

• Quote:

  “Don’t have a Plan B. Have two Plan As.”
  (JC, 57:07)
  Drawn from his father’s advice—don’t compromise your vision; instead, prepare two strong options.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why Pelican resonates with pros:

  “If a Pelican case could talk, it would have a lot of stories to tell.” (JC, 04:48)

• On proactivity in product innovation:

  “Why don’t we look at a Pelican collection…if you want to go on a business mission, take a Pelican.” (JC, 13:10)

• On reframing brands:

  “It wasn’t just about selling more guitars. Let’s go after the share of sound.” (JC, 47:08)

• On leadership styles surviving a ‘Pelican torture test’:

  “The kinetic JC energy would survive.” (JC, 06:33)

• On stakeholder alignment:

  “If you’re just a few degrees off with your investors in terms of expectations…and you go down the path, you can be miles away a year later.” (JC, 31:36)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:38 — Pelican’s place in the market and mission
• 02:32 — Favorite stories of Pelican cases in action
• 05:25 — Testing Pelican cases, Red Bull story
• 09:02 — Transition to Pelican 2.0, "re-evolution" strategy
• 13:27 — Product innovation, move from reactive to proactive
• 15:37 — Small moments to momentum, origin of Pelican Prepare
• 21:15 — “Patiently aggressive” decision making explained
• 24:19 — Managing creativity with disciplined execution
• 27:05 — Setting conditions for success
• 28:55 — Inverted vs. inspired synergy
• 31:13 — Aligning stakeholder expectations
• 35:48 — Childhood and family influences
• 37:54 — Helicopter vision concept explained
• 39:38 — Rapid-fire brand lessons (Keen, Salomon, Levi’s, Gibson)
• 48:14 — Lightning round (personal questions)
• 52:28 — Leading at home and family lessons
• 55:10 — Learning from failure, the importance of people decisions
• 57:07 — “Two plan As” principle

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David Novak’s Debrief — Practical Takeaways

[58:28—70:47]

• Reframing what you sell unlocks growth—examples: Pelican (protection), Snickers (snack, not candy), Nike (performance, not just shoes).
• Break through communication clutter—use simple, memorable frameworks (e.g., JC's “Canadian PowerPoint”, David's rock analogy).
• Helicopter vision vital: alternate between strategic “flying high” and ground-level execution.
• What got you here won’t get you there—innovation and perspective shifts are essential for growth.
• The magic is in the “AND”: big-picture vision AND relentless execution.

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Summary

JC Curleigh’s leadership philosophy centers on reframing both personal and brand narratives—never settling for incremental improvement, but continually expanding the conflict a brand (or leader) chooses to play in. Across Pelican, Levi’s, Salomon, Gibson, and more, JC’s discipline is to reinforce what works, recalibrate weaknesses, and reimagine bigger ambitions—always underpinned by kinetic energy, disciplined execution, and storytelling that gives a team and its customers a sense of mission.

“Don’t have a plan B—have two plan As.” (JC, 57:07)

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Transcript

[Podcast Host]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David Novak. Today Our guest is J.C. curley. He's the CEO of Pelican Products. And in today's episode, you'll learn how to reframe what you sell in a way that expands your brand. You'll also learn how to make better decisions by being aggressively patient. What helicopter vision is and why every leader should have it, and what you need instead of a plan B. Enjoy this conversation between David and JC and stick around to the very end of the episode for the debrief.

[David Novak]

Tell us, tell us about Pelican products. You know, what it is today and how you're envisioning the future.

[J.C. Curley]

Pelicans, in some cases, it's ubiquitous. Everyone kind of sees it, they know it. And I'm not talking about the bird, I'm talking about the case. And then when you describe, they go, oh, yeah, I know what that is. And then of course, if you use pelican cases, you really know what it is because you rely on it for, for your mission. Whether that's again, whether you're an explorer, an adventurer, a protector, a defender. And so we're actually 50 years old this year. And so for 50 years, we've been synonymous with protection. And we kind of invented this category. We, we started off with a first aid kit, and then people said, hey, if this is crush proof, dust proof, waterproof, why can't we use it for more protection across more use cases? And 50 years later, we're the global leader in protective cases and beyond. So for us, it's, it has been on a mission. But what we like to say is we're not the heroes. The heroes are all the folks out there doing what they do. And we enable and empower the mission to be accomplished at Pelican. And, and I think, you know, we like to also say that our protection starts where others ends. And so if it's a mission critical situation, what we've learned, and regardless of whether we're talking with the military, with, with filmmakers, or with collectors, the organization, the protection of what they value significantly determines the outcome of the mission. And when they put into Pelican, mission accomplished.

[David Novak]

Well, jc, you help us every day. You know, we ship our podcasts to all our guests like yourself, and we ship them all across the country and we know we can count on pelican cases because they can take a beating and they're gonna get there. You're almost like the Timex of cases. And you know, what's your favorite story, JC of that you've heard about where someone used your gear to really fulfill their mission?

[J.C. Curley]

Yeah. I mean, there's so many stories, and I admit I'm not sure if it exists, but I'm on the TSA stalker list at every airport because every time I see a pelican case, I actually stop people and I say, hey, what's in the Pelican? And no one's ever told me. No one's challenged me, no one's questioned me. And I don't come in leading like I'm the CEO of Pelican. I just say, hey, what do you got in the Pelican? They tell me. And I go, hey, are you using Trek pads? Pick? How are you organizing it? And they kind of look. And so I do have one favorite story, and there's a couple, but one was. It was early morning flight. I was coming from Nashville to la, and we're all, you know, everyone's heads down, going to their gate. And this. This lady, she's probably, like, early 30s, and. And she was very dialed in, organized. She was on a mission. I had. I didn't know her, but I saw the pelican case, and so I just kind of got beside her and. And. And I said, hey, you know what's in the Pelican? She goes, oh, it's camera equipment. I said, where are you headed? She goes, I'm going straight to a shoot. Started talking, and she said. I said, how do you organize it? She said, well, I've actually. They do this thing called pick and pluck where you can organize it for your equipment. I said, oh, yeah? I said, have you ever tried the Trek pack? She goes, no. What's that? And so she goes, what? What's up with the question? I said, hey, I'm the pelican guy. And she goes, what does that mean? I said, well, you know, I'm the CEO. I'm just always curious. And she stopped. I mean, she stopped dead in her tracks. We were on a mission to the gate. She goes, can I tell you my pelican story? And I'm like, absolutely. She said, she's been a photographer for a few years, and she goes to shoots. And traditionally, she'd bring a backpack and she'd show up and start unpacking it. Maybe she used a pair of socks or something else to organize her equipment. She decided to invest in a pelican. And she said when she showed up on that first shoot, she showed up with the pelican, laid it all out, and she said, that's the moment when I was taken seriously as a photographer. And it helped give me the confidence that to actually do what I do now, directing big major shoots. So she actually, she thought that the pelican was a code for she's arrived in her profession. And I think we hear those stories from Navy SEALs and SWAT teams and clearly in military theater, pelican synonymous with literally saving lives. And so I had this other kid and this dad. There were collectors, and the kid didn't want to tell me what was in it. He kept looking at his dad and then I said, I promise you, I'm the CEO of Pelican. And they sort of said, okay, we can show you. And they opened it up. There was a million dollars worth of baseball cards in a pelican case. So we see all sorts of stories and we get stories, and we like to say if a pelican case could talk, it would have a lot of stories to tell.

[David Novak]

Well, you know, you build to protect, and you have this protect. Your brand stands for protection. You equip people for their mission. And, you know, so you obviously have a product that can basically take a beating. As I mentioned earlier, have you personally ever tried to destroy one of your cases?

[J.C. Curley]

Yeah, I mean, we. We. I mean, we do all this. The drop tests and the tit tests, and we're working on some next generation products too. So we do a lot of testing. But I actually use it in my daily lives. In my former lives, when I was at Gibson Guitars, we used it for archives and other, you know, and I grew up in a military family. My father was military. So there were pelican cases around. And as kids, we tried to mess around with them and we knew were indestructible. So you kind of go like, will it break? Or what? We were more interested is not necessarily beating up the pelican case. And even today, yeah, you can beat it. What we're really interested in and what I'm interested in is will it protect what's inside, regardless of the beating it takes on the outside? And the answer so far is yes. We actually worked with Red Bull and the Red Bull Rampage, and we built a case, and they put a Red Bull fridge, dropped it from a helicopter on top of the mountain, and then started the race when the Red Bull fridge opened. And guess what? The Red Bull fridge was intact. So it's a pretty good endorsement, I would say.

[David Novak]

So. And if we put your leadership style through a Pelican torture test, what would survive?

[J.C. Curley]

Every time, I think what would survive? That's A great one. I think what would survive is the energy dynamic that's kinetic. It's so latent. Potential is a battery that needs to get plugged in. If you think about kinetic energy, it's in motion. It's always there's momentum happening. And I think that would survive the kinetic. And the JC kinetic energy would survive.

[David Novak]

I love it. You know, and, you know, you've been a part of growing some major brands, which we're going to talk about a little bit later. When you came into Pelican, you know, what did you, what did you basically inherit? And better question, you know, what was the first hard truth that you really had to confront?

[J.C. Curley]

I think the hard truth, and again, it's hard to not talk about situations. I've inherited. I've inherited a company that was bankrupt, a major iconic brand that had taken its leadership for granted. I've been part of a brand that had to expand or else it was regulated to just a winter sports company in Salma. We'll talk about that. But with Pelican, I think the starting point was, you know, we're a leader in our category. We've never not been the leader. We invented a category and we have potential. And so do you remember when you were a kid, maybe in third or fourth grade, I think we all had the same thing, like good student, you know, could pay a little more attention and has so much potential. And I think the thesis on Pelican is we're a globally recognized brand, we're a leader in what we do, and yet the potential is so much more. And I did a little analysis. You know, you don't have to do too much desktop research to find that people are buying fewer things, but of higher quality, that is spending more money. And they want to value, they want to protect what they value. So we're really at this really interesting intersection where if more people understood that they could have a Pelican in their life, that would protect what they value, regardless of the form factor. We think we've got a lot of potential in front of us.

[David Novak]

You know, my dad had a great saying about potential and it was like, potential means you haven't done it yet, you know, and, you know, as a leader, one of the things you have to do is come in and define your reality and say, okay, this is what we can be. And you're now really taking this brand, which stands for protection, into a lot of different areas. Talk about that.

[J.C. Curley]

Well, I think it's, you know, we often talk as leaders about, hey, what was 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 in the journey of a brand and a business. And I would declare that the first 50 years of Pelican 1.0 were absolutely successful. I mean, we've grown, we're profitable, we have a leading brand. But to unlock this potential, you can't just keep on doing the same things the same way. And I think if. And quite frankly, different investors have different expectations. The prior investors, they were. They were okay with a much slower, what I would call the squeeze play. You squeeze a little growth, you squeeze a little margin, squeeze a little expenses, and you. You get this compounding effect over years on your profitability. I think in today's world, if you truly believe the thesis of potential and accelerated growth, then you have to do things differently. Said Said differently. What got you here won't get you there. 50 years of synonymous leading protection. How do we accelerate that into new user bases? And how do we bring new solutions? And how do we continue to customize and personalize solutions for people that, you know, that they want better protection, but also in a slightly different way than they used to get it? So we unleashed what do I call Pelican 2.0. And it was essentially. And I can actually. This was not scripted, but I can show you the exact piece of paper. I tend to go Canadian PowerPoint on day one. And. And I'm gonna throw it up there. So I talk about these things. I talk about reinforced, re energize and reimagine. And that really is on this built to protect platform. Here we go. And then there it is, right there. And then built to protect. But then you launched what we call the Pelican 2.0 re evolution. So against that backdrop, and we've refined it a little bit, but I really think it's important if you come into a brand, reinforce what's working. A lot of leaders come in and they want to change everything. What's working is a lot at Pelican. Recalibrate and re energize areas that you want to unlock and then reimagine the future of where it can go. And if you look at brands like Yeti or Tumi or Thule, I mean, Yeti is a $2 billion brand synonymous with premium coolers and hydration solutions at 2 billion. And if they can get there with that and they're younger than Pelican, then the potential for us to get to that sort of level is very, very real.

[David Novak]

So you've got this re evolution, which I love. And by the way, I love how you just communicated that so clearly. I mean, how do you think about just communication? That simple? I mean, what process do you go through to boil it down like that for your people? Because, you know, I get it. I know where you're headed.

[J.C. Curley]

I'm not sure I've perfected it, but my team would probably say, like, if you don't show up in a JC session and with a clear message triangle, then he's gonna school you live. And I mean that in a positive way because I fundamentally believe in that. I believe in the power of three. I believe in a message triangle that says, what are the three most important things? And typically, if you get one right, you're doing okay. If you get two of those three things, you're on the right path. If you get all three in motion, you can actually make a meaningful difference. And I think determining what mode the company and the brand is in is super critical. Are you in defensive, offensive? Are you in protection of your business mode, or are you in acceleration mode? And so finding what that mode is and then building that messaging triangle around it, that's very simplified. Yes, it's conceptual, but it's actionable. And then if you take those three, say, for us at Pelican, when we talk about, hey, how do we reinforce what's working? How do we recalibrate in certain areas and reimagine all against. What is it just share of cases? No, it's going after the share of protection. And it's conceptual, but it's also very real for us.

[David Novak]

And re evolution, reimagination. That's inspiring for your people. And as I understand, in this past year, you've introduced more new products than you've done in the previous 50 years. And talk about those products and how you're evolving this idea of protection, because you're going after a share of protection, not just cases. You've reimagined how your whole frame of reference.

[J.C. Curley]

That's right. Yeah. And so if you think about under those three Rs, and it really has David manifest itself, when I go over to Europe, they present in terms of the three Rs. When I talk to the team, they say, AJC, we've really reinforced this, or, hey, we've learned a little bit, we're gonna recalibrate on this new product. So they've come to life now at Pelican. But what's interesting, the question of, like, new product and innovation, and so typically, what would happen in our industry is, is a new form factor, say, a new size drone would come out, and then we'd make a case to fit that drone. And that was kind of the response. And, and now what we're saying is let's get way more proactive with it. So, for instance, if you see an individual at an airport with a pelican case, they typically have something valuable in it that needs to get, you know, as a carry on. Is it a camera? Is it something where they're. They need to get the job done and accomplish the mission? But what we also recognize is that individual also has clothes that they need to check in, and they also have hydration. They have a phone, they have a wallet. So we said, why don't we look at not just transacting a pelican case for a specific use case, why don't we look at a pelican collection? And the vision I have might not materialize this year or next year, but if you want to go on a business trip, there's plenty of luggage solutions. If you want to go on a business mission, take a pelican. And that's the mindset. If you want to go on an outdoor camping adventure, there's lots of products you could take. You want to take your family on an outdoor mission, take a pelican. So we want this mission mindset not just to be for the highest level of mission accomplished individuals, but bring it to more people. And I think what we see is, for instance, in the travel world is people are going to more exciting destinations, more exotic, they're putting more expensive things in their luggage. So why wouldn't we be a natural solution if pelican pivoted into travel? And, and I'm talking about, you know, four wheel spinners, expandable bags, check in backpacks, modular organization. How do we equip individuals to accomplish their mission when they might not even know they're on a mission yet, but when they have pelican, they feel more confident.

[David Novak]

I love that. You know, and I've heard you say that the magic isn't in the big moments, it's in the little moments that create momentum. Give me a small moment that happened at Pelican that most people might have overlooked, but it told you, you know, it told you JC that, hey, we're heading in the right direction, momentum's building.

[J.C. Curley]

Yeah. So I really, and I fundamentally believe in moments to momentum. I think in today's world of, you know, instant gratification, acceleration, bypassing hacking solutions, which are all very real dynamics that we can benefit from. But, but sometimes it's just the little things. It's the series of momentums that lead up to building momentum, either for an individual, for a brand, a company. And so I'll give you an example. And it was a moment. It wasn't a fun moment. It was a very challenging moment about a year ago when the Palisades fires hit here in la. And we are this company that works with first responders. We work with all the different agencies and. And we work with individuals and people who just live their lives. And so these fires hit, and I thought to myself, man, I watched the pictures of people and you saw the same things I did of people leaving with garbage bags, or they had no evacuation plan, or if they had to shelter in place, they didn't know what to do. And the three things that typically happen when disaster strikes is the first thing people think is, well, it'll never happen to me. And then it does. And if it does, the first responders will help me. And if they can't, I'll figure it out. And what we recognized was. And. And through personal experience, I have new neighbors who were displaced. I went up to the Palisades, I talked to the first responders and went to the site where the first responders described what happened to me. And I was like, at that moment, I thought, man, Pelican, we can do more. We can do more to make every homeowner a first responder. And so I came back, literally from a Palisades unfortunate visit, the trip to see the apocalyptic sort of scenes that you've all seen. And I came back to my team and said, we're going to launch Pelican Prepare. It's going to be a platform to prepare people for evacuation or for, you know, a shelter in place. First of all, it's going to be a pelican kit, 1, 2, 4 person kit with all the hydration, battery, first aid, everything you would need to shelter in place or evacuate in a pelican case on wheels. Crush proof, dust proof, waterproof. And the second one that we heard most was that people didn't know what to take with them in a moment of panic. They forgot passports, they forgot wedding rings, they forgot watches, they forgot collectibles. So we created a case called Pelican Valuable where you'd predetermine what goes in it. And in a moment's notice, you say to the family, grab the pelicans. You open it up, you put everything that you need, valuable in it. The other one is ready to roll. And two pelican cases, you can evacuate within 10 minutes. And your pelican prepared in a natural disaster. So that moment, unfortunate moment, turned into a product solution and innovation. And if I asked you, David, are you prepared at home in the event of. You may be, but 95% of people aren't. And then if you say, well, what brand is synonymous with the most important moment in your family's life, which is saving them? And you say, well, there really isn't one. Well, why couldn't it be Pelican in the future?

[David Novak]

That's a little moment. You know that actually, and many to everybody that was impacted, it was a huge moment. How did you come back, come back to your team and make that little moment a big moment for you guys in terms of how you proceeded?

[J.C. Curley]

Yeah. And it started to double click on the story. One of my new neighbors all of a sudden across the street where I live in southern la, and it was a family and they moved in and I said, oh, welcome to the neighborhood. They said, yeah, we lost everything. And I realized at that moment. And so I would chat with them and we talked to them about what it was like and all of that. And I realized that it's one thing to protect a camera or if someone's going hunting or someone's using our equipment, it's another thing to actually play a role in making a family more confident as a result of. Of protecting the family. And if we say protecting all you value, and you. And I would say, well, we value our family and our memories most. So that's what I came back with, was like, we got to help families and we got to protect memories. And we know, we know we have a solution to do it. We also. The other thing we have is all first responders, they would back this because there's never going to be enough of them. So we've worked with the first responder community and say, you know what if we brought this solution out? They said, well, you would help us enable everyone else to be their own first responder. So when I came back to the team, I don't think anyone. The shocker was not the idea. I think the shocker was the pace at which I wanted to go at. And we traditionally operated a relatively, you know, slow pace because there's no such thing as protective case season. It's not like you have to. If you're in the toy business and you Miss December, you missed the moment, you know. So for us, we'd been used to this relatively slow pace of product introduction. I said, In 100 days, we're launching Pelican Prepare. And the team was like, what is it? I said, that's exactly the task at hand. And in 100 days, we set up on our innovation lab here in Torrance, California. We got all the cases, we set it all up, we put red handles on it. We worked with a company called redfora, which is ready for anything, determine what goes inside of it. We got first responders involved, we tested it all out, and we launched it in less than 100 days.

[David Novak]

Now here you are. I also, I've, in my research, you describe yourself as patiently aggressive. You know.

[J.C. Curley]

Yeah.

[David Novak]

Now, first of all, explain what you mean by that. And then how did you, how do you reconcile that with that kind of sense of urgency? When do you know when to put the pedal to the metal?

[J.C. Curley]

Yeah, that's a great segue. So, so I, I fundamentally, it's probably we've. And it's not something that, that I read, you know, years ago and applied it. It's something I learned in some ways, the hard way. And I think if you ask a, an audience of leaders or just even people, and everyone's a leader of some sort and say, who here has made a decision too quickly and regretted it, everyone's hands goes up. You say, okay, who in this room has known they needed to make a decision? You had the information, the insight, and your gut told you to make it, but you delayed it and you waited too long. Everyone's hand goes up. And so what's the difference is understanding this notion of, of this mindset of being aggressively patient or patiently aggressive. If you've set the right conditions for success to be aggressive, then get after it. If you haven't exercising a little patience. And so, for instance, on this one with Pelican Prepare, we had the cases, David, we had the zeitgeist moment of pain in our community, and we had an inevitable solution that the only thing stopping it from getting to market was our energy on it. So the conditions for success were there. And so we did it. If, if I, I'm looking at another situation with where people are saying, hey, could we do more here? I'm saying, yes, we probably could, but let's pace ourselves in terms of our lighting division. So there's so much happening. We do lights and we do remote area lighting. We do a lot of the different light systems and solutions. So one of the things we talked about said, why don't we put lights in our cases? And someone said, well, because, because it's okay. Let's. Let's be a little patient and develop the right solution. So over the last year, we developed what we call now the mod light, which slots into the case, it pulls out, it lights up your case, it comes out, it can go onto a lanyard, it's magnetic. But that wasn't. There wasn't a sense of urgency to get that out. So I let the team pace themselves over a year to be patient, but arrive at the right solution versus Pelican Preparer was be aggressive and get people to a safer place faster.

[David Novak]

So, jc, I don't know you real well. We just. We just met here. But, you know, you are one creative guy. I mean, you got ideas just coming out of your union. It's not coming out. They emanate from you. I just wonder, you know, looking back, did you have some hard lessons on how to manage your creativity? Because sometimes you can be so. I used to say, for me, if somebody left me in the office for a day, oh, my God, I'd come out with so many ideas, and I'd want to execute them before we really had executed what needed to be done first. How do you control your creativity and the idea of pacing and sequencing for outstanding execution.

[J.C. Curley]

I had the fortune of becoming a CEO relatively early on when I was at Salomon. And I remember coming from Europe back to North America to be the seat of Solomon North America. And I was like, I was. You know, it's daunting, but I'm excited. You know, that moment where you first are like. And I remember this individual who I was taking over from, amazing individual, and he wasn't in the job. I wasn't replacing him. He was just the custodian of the role till I got there. And so. And he said to me, he said, jc, just remember as a CEO that your. Your whisper is a shout. So whatever you say and whoever you say it, to understand that they might take that as either an action plan or an expectation. And so I've tended to be very. As energized as I want to be. I tend to try to keep people focused in priority. You know, this notion of keep the main thing the main thing. And to do that, developing an organizing principle, for instance, at Pelican around, hey, folks, what are we reinforcing? Like, our core business? We reinforce. What are we recalibrating and then earn the right to reimagine. If everyone stays and reimagined, we're basically going to be having unicorn and rainbows and all that stuff, chasing it down the path. And we're not that company or that brand. And the other side of it, I think, which is important for leaders too. And we don't know each other, but I love the creative side. I love the brand building, the culture building, and I've got a track record of that. But what other folks may not see is I did a dual major in marketing and finance. When I went back to do executive education, I did strategic financial management and planning. And so really trying to understand the causal professional link between the creative mindset actions and with actionable intent on product and how that flows through to the context of your financial expectations, results and trajectory are critical. And you've seen it go really, really wrong. When the creatives are so creative that it's not in service to the business or the business. The financials demand too much growth out of non creativity. Getting that balance right of creative and commercial I think is critical. And if as a leader you can balance that mindset, then you earn the right to be in the role of a CEO, I think to balance those two.

[Podcast Host]

Hi friends. I hope you're enjoying this conversation so far. As always, stay tuned to the very end of the episode. David and I will be debriefing some of the concepts that he speaks about in this conversation to give you something really practical you can use right away in your life and in your leadership. Stay tuned to the debrief and I will see you in a bit.

[David Novak]

Earlier you talked about the importance of conditions and you say you can't guarantee success, but you can guarantee better conditions for success. What does that mean practically?

[J.C. Curley]

Okay, let's go back to a year ago, David, when everyone comes into a new year and says, oh, that's gonna be a Great New Year, 2025, all of a sudden there's a little change in the administration. We heard things like doge, we heard things like tariffs. We heard all these dynamics unfolded last year and there were a lot of them were uncontrollables. But at the same time, as a leader and as a team, I often would ask, who here can guarantee success in the future? And no one puts their hand up. And I said, but as leaders, we should be able to guarantee we can set better conditions for success. And those are having a clear vision and strategy. It's having the right leaders in place for the mode that you're in. I think it's prioritizing and pacing and setting those conditions for success. And if they happen to come a little sooner, you're ready for it. If it takes a little longer, you have to be patient. But it's not because your state of readiness isn't there, it's because the market dynamics or the conditions aren't there. So setting the conditions for success, I think is critical. And I often use a lot of sports analogies. And if you think about a team, not every team's going to win the super bowl. But typically those that have set the best conditions for success over time, with a game plan, the right team in place, the right leadership on and off the field, a little bit of luck here and there, but it's amazing how luck favors those who are well positioned and have set conditions for success.

[David Novak]

I've heard you also talk about the difference between invested synergy and inspired synergy. Explain.

[J.C. Curley]

Well, actually, it's a little twist on that. So it's one of the things I call inverted synergy. So inverted synergy. And I've seen it happen in places I think I came up with.

[David Novak]

Good point. Sometimes I can't read my own writing.

[J.C. Curley]

Yeah, no, no, no. I like, I like, I'm going to. I might take that invested synergy. That's my third eye. I can go invested, inverted and inspired. But, but, but it happened to me when I was at, when, when I joined Levi's and Levi Strauss Co. In 2012. It was going through a relatively flattish time. It wasn't losing, but it wasn't leading. It taking its leaders. And I got there and I recognized, like, you know, this is Levi's. This is a company that invented the blue jeans synonymous with some of the, you know, moments over time, from gold miners to cowboys to, you know, cool people in Hollywood and rock and roll wearing Levi's. And I get to Levi's in 2012 and I'm like, I don't understand what's happening here to this iconic brand, that it's still a leader in jeans, but it doesn't feel like it's leading. And I, I came up with this concept of it had inverted synergy where it was upside down, where the whole of Levi's was less than the sum of its parts. And so that vision of. And it's a bit of a rally cry to say, guys, we have everything we need. We just have to actually look at each of these dimensions and make it matter more. And so going from this notion of inverted synergy where the whole is less than the sum of its parts, how do you set the conditions for success to get inspired synergy where the whole of Levi's or of any brand is greater than the sum of its parts. And if you think about the brands we know and love that often they Reach that status of inspired synergy where the whole of the brand is greater than the sum of all of its parts.

[David Novak]

Yeah. And you know, you said at the top how Pelican helps people on their critical missions. Okay. When you look at yourself, J.C. as a leader, what's mission critical to you now? I mean, what lever do you have to pull or get better at to take your own performance to the next level? And how do you go about evaluating that if you do?

[J.C. Curley]

One of the first things I like to do is set expectations for all your stakeholders, not just, I think when we're younger in our leadership career, you tend to hone in either on the investors or on your leadership team or on the board or on just your customers. And I think stepping back and recognizing that in today's, you know, modern world of being a CEO, there are multiple stakeholders that have expectations and assessing. And you don't have to take days and days with a strategic off site to step back and say, okay, investors are looking for a return. Customers are looking for solutions and scaled service. The community is looking for support. The team is looking for vision and inspired, actionable plans for them to grow as an individual, to grow with the company. And so one of the first things I've learned is really assess the state of your stakeholder base and understand if you set expectations for each, will it actually meet or exceed theirs. And I think that's an important one is aligning on expectations. And you've seen or you've heard the story of, if you're just a few degrees off with your investors in terms of expectations and you go down the path, you can be miles away a year later. So setting expectations and aligning on expectations, I think are really important. And it does something else, David. It avoids the difficult conversations down the road. Show me a difficult conversation where you have to relieve someone of their duties because it's of performance issues or something else, it's because you didn't have the aligned expectations at the beginning. And so that's one of the first ones is aligning on expectations. I think the second one is also be an active listener. I do have a lot to say. I take up a little oxygen in a meeting room, but that's the energy side. But how do you also convert that to active listening? And in today's world, there's so much noise. How do you put the. I always call it wherever I am. Here it's the Pelican noise cancellation headphones. Let's put those on team and look for the signal of what we should be prioritizing. And oftentimes when we have that group exercise, we arrive at the right conclusion of prioritizing and then looking at the potential.

[David Novak]

How do you step back, J.C. so that you really go through that analysis, so that when you go into a year or whenever that period is that you say, hey, this is how I'm going to shape myself as I go forward.

[J.C. Curley]

So I mean a lot of CEOs, they either have a coach or they get 360 degree reviews and that and I, I've had enough of those in the past. All very, you know, in varying degrees of, of I would call success. But now I don't need to wait for that as a, as an experience. I don't need to wait for the 360 or necessarily for the coach. I proactively pursue that. I'll talk to. I think it's important, you know, if you have a board, if you're only meeting with your board on prescribed calendar time, then you're probably not getting the best use out of that board. As an example, I often have chats and talks and off off calendar board conversations with some of our operating partners or our board members to get feedback or to align or when something isn't quite right. I said we can't agree to disagree on the big things in the room, so let's solve those in advance. And so being proactive in setting up those sort of micro relationship moments where you're constantly aligning, setting expectations and learning, you know, if you're working with private equity, I mean, and a company that's seen, they've seen every, every dynamic of business, so not confronting the reality of your challenge to them, you're wasting everyone's time. You put it together with them, they can say, oh, we've been in this situation, we can help you more. So I would say that, that being proactive and getting feedback and of course you have to again back to that setting conditions for success. I think one of the things my team would say is that JC is super approachable. He doesn't judge, but he expects you to come in with a point of view that you can defend. And so I think being approachable and being open to feedback and different points of view and quite frankly challenging some of the decisions I make makes me a stronger leader. But building that trust and that team around you, it takes a little time. But when you get it, that's where I think the leadership momentum happens. Not just for me, but for the team around me.

[David Novak]

And you know, stepping back and really assessing that Helps you get there. And, you know, speaking of stepping back, I want to take you way back. You know, what's the story from your childhood?

[J.C. Curley]

Okay.

[David Novak]

That really shaped the kind of leader you are today?

[J.C. Curley]

Well, often when I introduce myself, and it's very real for me. I mean, I grew up in a military family. My father was a naval aviator and very successful in the military. 40 years military. And he would describe himself as a peacekeeper. So picture this on one side, military upbringing. My mother is a free spirit from Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. Musician, community leader. Just an unbelievable woman. She's 88 years old, strong. She sent me an update from the weekend that she still playing guitar. She runs the movie theater. She. She. She did, went to the dance hall. So she. She's this unbelievable, energized, you know, yes, my mother, but also just in. In life, she's led through so many different dynamics with my father. We moved every three years, and she would just go right into the situation, learn the language, move the family, set up for success. So I grew up in this military family, but this free spirit dynamic as well. And so that's what you get with me. Not afraid to be afraid, a leader in the military, but at the same time, you know, not afraid of the free spirit. So that's that literally, I. That's my DNA. And so. And growing up, I have an identical twin brother. So that comes with a whole host of dynamics when you've got someone who's literally, we're mirror twins, we're identical. So whether we got into trouble, it was always the twins. And then. But, you know, we. We took different paths and along the way. And so growing up, we were absolutely, I would say, privileged to grow up in a military background where we were always the new kids. We moved to three or four different countries, and there was four of us kids within four years. So we were always the new kids. And I remember the teachers, the principals saying, hey, are you ready for first day of school? Are you guys? Is the Curly family ready? And I remember my parents going, are you ready for these Curly kids?

[David Novak]

I understand your dad taught you all about helicopter vision. Tell us that story.

[J.C. Curley]

Yeah, I mean, he was. And he was. You know, we all like to think our dads were cool and accomplished, but he really was. And he was seconded. He was a Canadian naval aviator seconded by us in the early 60s. Ran the Intrepid on the 60s, the helicopter program, sonar, radar, all of that era, Bay of Pigs, and then also worked with NASA, space pickup, all that. So we grew up in this environment where helicopters were around us and he, he was the cool dad and he was doing cool things and we would watch him speak to people. And I was always in awe of his ability to engage with people as if he was only talking to you, even if there's hundreds of people in the room. So I picked up a lot as a kid. But then he would often talk about, you know, there's this notion of helicopter parenting which is like hovering over your kids. It's not that at all. When I grew up, he would say, hey, the coolest thing about being a helicopter pilot is you can fly up and you can envision, you can see what's happening, you could scout out what's going on. If everything's going to plan, you do your role. If it's not, you can hover, land that helicopter, get out, help support, engage, fix, solve, and then get back up and move. So he said, think about that as a leader. Like, if you have to be on the ground and leading from the front, could you do it? And at the same time, if you get up to 5,10,000ft and survey the landscape, what would it tell you? And so this notion of this helicopter vision, seeing things from the direct sight line on the ground right through to up at 10,000ft, gives a different perspective, a different dynamic, different scenario settings. And he said, just always have that helicopter vision in mind that you can hover up and down into a situation and engage accordingly.

[David Novak]

Love that, love that. And you've worked with some great brands and you're a incredible brand builder. And I'm going to just kind of do a rapid fire here and go through some of the brands that you've worked with and just give me a quick, you know, big leadership insight you got at each one of these. You know, you work, for example, you worked at Keen Footwear, known for outdoor performance shoes. The leadership insight.

[J.C. Curley]

Yeah, leadership insight. There was young company, absolutely positively ferocious founder who, who fundamentally believed in the product he'd created when others didn't believe in it. A toe protected sandal, you know, who needed it. If you wanted a flip flop, you got a flip flop. If you wanted toe production, you got, you know, toe protected shoes. And he fundamentally believed in this. And so it wasn't so much about the product, it was about building a brand around it. And the pivot was, it's not a, it wasn't a toe protected sandal, it was a hybrid shoe. It protected and it breathed. Who wears it? People living a hybrid life. What's that? People who want to create play and care. And we created a brand around hybrid living that connected with a shoe. And so that's the leadership lesson, is don't make it about the feature and benefit of the product. Make it about the vision of who would actually want to buy into what you're either selling or creating. Going after the hybrid life.

[David Novak]

All right, Solomon, you know a global mountain sports brand.

[J.C. Curley]

Yes. And Salomon. Great story. George Solomon, 1947, invented the modern day ski binding. Thirty years later, invented the rear entry boot, then launched the ski. So it took them like 40, 50 years to just skis, boots, bindings. And instead of. And I met George Solomon and he asked me, jc, you know, should we stick with skis and should we do more? And I said, George, where's the. Where's the mountain going to be in 20 years, in 10 years? And when you look at the mountain, it was going to do all these different things in snowboarding and backcountry. What happens when the snow melts? People are hiking. I said, let's go after. Not the share of ski, but the share of mountain. That was a big leadership transition. And today Salomon is equally, if not more successful in footwear as it is in ski. And that was a moment of leadership where we went after the share of mountain.

[David Novak]

Levi's, which arguably the most iconic denim brand in the world.

[J.C. Curley]

Yeah, Levi's. I mean, just I grew up wearing Levi's. My mother put me in Levi's. And even when you're the leader and it doesn't feel like you're leading, what do you do? And I think for Levi's, it was don't take your leadership for granted. And what happened in 2012, in that 2012 era, premium denim, private label. And my daughters didn't even know what Levi's was. They knew what Lululemon was. They didn't know who Levi's was. My son was wearing athletic, My wife was wearing $250 jeans, and I stuck with my Lev. And so I think there it was about not taking your leadership for granted, but rebuilding Fort Levi's to be more premium, to actually be about comfort, casualization and the cool factor. And to do that, we unlocked what we called the center of culture. Where was the center of culture? Moments, sports and music. And how did we find ourselves into that? And the big leadership, not even lesson. The moment was when I was actively involved with the creation of Levi's Stadium.

[David Novak]

Tell us that story.

[J.C. Curley]

Oh, that's. So I moved to San Francisco and I've been a 49ers fan for a long time and then, you know, but that this was before Levi's Stadium. And I remember watching a game and do you know the mascot? Just think about this. Pop quiz. What is the mascot of the 49ers?

[David Novak]

I'm sorry.

[J.C. Curley]

No problem. It's a gold miner. It's Sourdough Sam. He's a gold miner from the gold mining era.

[David Novak]

I've watched football for years. I don't know that I know, but most people don't.

[J.C. Curley]

You're most people can say, oh, I know what that mascot. So it's a gold miner. Well, Levi's was invented in the gold mining era. So he's this bigger than life mascot and he's out there and he's doing his thing to start the game and I pause on his rear end and I say to my kids, I said, he's not wearing Levi's. We got to get him into Levi's. Fast forward. We had dinner. Myself, the CEO of Levi's, Chip Berg, and myself had dinner with, with Jed York and the team, the 49ers, and we met at dinner and I said, hey, I got a bone to pick with you. We gotta get Sourdough Sam and Levi's. And then that was at the start of dinner. By the end of dinner said, well, how about Levi's Stadium? And Chip had had some experience with Gillette in New England, in Boston, and I'd had sports experience with Adidas and Solomon. And fast forward to literally within months, we inked a deal to do Levi's Stadium. And it really was a separator for the brand. And it wasn't about another store or doing some other line or a collaboration. It was a 20 year commitment to cement ourselves in the center of culture, music, sports, San Francisco, entrepreneurial, and of course, all the names and people want to call it the field of jeans and, you know, let's win one for the zipper and all that. But we settled on Levi's Stadium and arguably one of the most significant and impactful investments the brand made. But it, you know what it did, David? It was one thing to have impact and eyeballs and measurable marketing, but it gave the company and I could feel it when we launched it. We brought the players and we brought the coaches and the Niner Noise and the cheers all to Levi's. Like our headquarters on Battery street in San Francisco. One of my favorite moments was the company had no idea what was happening. We did this massive town hall and out came these players and the Niner Noise and We're up on the stage and we announced Levi's Stadium and the. Just the pride that the company had around. We're doing big things. And I remember walking into the boardroom and one of the board members said, jc, can you guarantee this is going to succeed? By the way, numbers were 20 year deal and basically a $220 million deal, like 11 million a year, et cetera. And that's public knowledge. And so she said, can you guarantee this is going to succeed? I said, no, I can't guarantee it's going to be successful. But what I can guarantee is if we don't think like this, then we should reduce our ambitions as a brand and as a company. We have to think big, we have to think iconic. This is Levi's and if this succeeds, it'll introduce us to a new generation, it'll reinforce the generation that's never left us, and it'll put us in the center of culture. Super Bowl 50 was just played there, well, 10 years ago. And then they just had Super Bowl a couple weekends ago. And it was so awesome to see Brandy Carlisle playing a Gibson guitar. Charlie Puth wearing Levi's at Levi's Stadium. All part of a little piece that I've been involved with.

[David Novak]

Yeah, you were also a Gibson. One of the most legendary names in music. The big leadership insight there.

[J.C. Curley]

Biggest leadership insight there. And again, how brands and businesses got to where they got to it was technically bankruptcy. They took on a lot of brands and over time and couldn't quite figure out how to innovate. And so you take on too much debt, you buy too many brands. So it was technically bankrupt. That's not the lesson. I think the lesson there was again, similar to Levi's where we said, okay, let's go after Share of Closet or Share of Hybrid Life or Share of Mountain. I recognized at Gibson it wasn't just about selling more guitars. Gibson has been synonymous with writing, recording, shaping sound for over 100 years and live included. Let's go after the share of sound. And that became so my rally cry, my Canadian PowerPoint rally cry, literally was I walked out on the stage the first day with just SOS on a piece of cardboard. And it truly was. SOS was the distress signal. We were bankrupt. People didn't know if they were coming literally into this thousand people into this venue to say, we're shutting down Gibson or they didn't know who I was. And I held a piece of cardboard and said, the distress signal's gone out. We're coming here with the Investors, myself with every ounce of experience. I'm also a musician and it was very, very passionate. It was a noble cause for me. And I said, we're going to turn SOS into Share of Sound and save our sound and then Share of sound. And we went after that and now we rebuilt Gibson the right way over the last five or six years and it's now synonymous with the Sheriff sound.

[David Novak]

Awesome. Awesome. I tell you, this has been so much fun, J.C. and I want to have some more now with the lightning round of questions that I have. Are you ready for this?

[J.C. Curley]

Okay, I'm ready.

[David Novak]

The three words that best describe you.

[J.C. Curley]

Energy. Approachable. I would say empathetic.

[David Novak]

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?

[J.C. Curley]

You know who it would be? Would be my grandfather. He was an orphan in London. Read a sign on an old electricity pole that said, welcome to the new land. As a 16 year old got on a boat and joined the. What was then the Northwestern Mounted Police and became a commissioner in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. And just seeing. Going from an orphan to that brave step of getting on a ship to doing something that hadn't been done before and then bringing it around to accomplishing what he did was he was a true pioneer. Your biggest pet peeve, when people are late and they take that for granted. It's one thing to be late and apologize for a trial, there's a situation. But just coming in and not acknowledging that you're late and understanding that that's the norm and you've kept other people waiting drives me nuts.

[David Novak]

Who would play you in a movie?

[J.C. Curley]

My twin brother.

[David Novak]

The best part about being a twin,

[J.C. Curley]

the best part is you've gotta. You've always got a, you know, you've always got an alibi. It wasn't me, your honor. I wasn't even there. No, the best part about being a twin is, is. Is you have someone who's literally shared a lot of the moments in your life and when, when something comes at you, there's nothing we haven't seen together.

[David Novak]

What did. What do you and your favorite pelican case have in common?

[J.C. Curley]

I think I've built to protect, to equip for my family mission. And I think the pelican case is built to equip for a physical mission and the two come together.

[David Novak]

Something you do as a family. Speaking of family, in Costa Rica, you can't do anywhere else.

[J.C. Curley]

I'll tell you what we can't do anywhere else is have spontaneous music nights that are multicultural by Definition. And everyone's in the band.

[David Novak]

What's something you've been curious about lately that has absolutely nothing to do with work?

[J.C. Curley]

I'm obsessed with how restaurants work. I really am. I just think that if you think about and I was a couple of months ago, I was at a dinner and I got this meal. I'm like, every meal served is a performance review for the restaurant. Every meal served. I mean, I get a performance review annually or something. I'm sure you as a leader would do performance reviews with your team or you'd get one as a CEO from your board. But every meal is delivered. It's a performance review. And how they keep the pace, how they manage the inventory, how they keep things in motion hot. And how they continually get a five star review. If you see a restaurant with continuous five star reviews, you should learn what they're doing in terms of all of the dynamics to succeed in the business. I'm obsessed with restaurant dynamics.

[David Novak]

The one thing you do just for you.

[J.C. Curley]

I play guitar every day.

[David Novak]

Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession?

[J.C. Curley]

It is my Gibson 1966 J45 guitar.

[David Novak]

If I turned the radio on in your car, what would I hear?

[J.C. Curley]

You would hear right now, oh, here's a shameless plug. You would hear a band called Where's West? Soon to be at festivals near you. Happens to be my son, but I do, I listen to a lot of his music. I think it's awesome and inspiring. And then what's crazy is our family, we've never fought about who gets to run Bluetooth in the car because we all have the same soundtrack. So that's, I think that's a testament to not having to fight over music. But we all love the same music.

[David Novak]

What's something about you?

[J.C. Curley]

Few people would know that I'm a triple citizen. I was born in the U.S. to Canadian parents and then also was naturalized as a citizen in the uk. So, you know, and having three passports wasn't the goal, but I think understanding the cultural dynamics that come with being connected to not just one place, but multiple places. When you grow up and you hear about diversity and inclusion, I lived it. So I don't have to be prescribed it. I actually have lived it.

[David Novak]

We're out of the lightning round. Great job, jc. Just a few more questions here. I'll let you get back to work here. You know, how do you lead at home?

[J.C. Curley]

At home, I have three kids. They're all young adults now. And so, you know, one of the things I try not to Bring work home, which is, you know, I think that's a lesson learned. I was, you know, younger in my day. I was getting up early and staying late. And now I try to get it done not just through me and the team. So leading at home by trying to listen to what's going on in the family, not bringing my baggage home is probably the first thing to whatever mood I was in during the day. I have to sort of do this. And then when I was at Levi's, I would drive over the Golden Gate Bridge and use that as my cathartic moment to be like, okay, what's behind me is behind me and what's in front of me is in front of me. And so I think leading at home a little bit by example, doing my best to support, you know, obviously the family dynamics, but also all the lessons I learned in life through my parents, I try to put that into the kids. And it's amazing if a kid can, if a kid can play a video game, they can learn how to do dishwashers, they can learn how to do laundry. It's like, it's actually a good translation. So I try to make sure the kids are set up for their life beyond just living at home.

[David Novak]

What's your family taught you about leadership?

[J.C. Curley]

You should do a podcast with my wife. In fact, what an exercise that would be if we all just brought our significant others in to run the company for a day. They've heard everything. But I think my wife has taught me. She's awesome. She, we met in college, we moved to London, she worked at Sony Music, I did this and then we decided to have a family. So she took that path and did an amazing job at bringing the kids up. And I traveled and did what I did. And she's taught me that, like, you know, I kept doing what I did. Her life pivoted 180 degrees with going from being at Sony Music to being a mom. And she taught me, like, the 180 degree switch in life is way harder than, than your career chasing ladder that you think you're on until you realize that what we do as CEOs is challenging. And you know, it's got a dynamic way of coming at you, but what moms have to do and what my wife and by the way, we loved every minute of it. I don't maybe most minutes, but she just taught me that like pivoting 180 degrees and doing it well is harder than just climbing the corporate ladder, you know?

[David Novak]

Jc, this has been an incredible conversation and you've been a part of so many big things. You know, looking back at it, you know, was there a failure that really that you had that really taught you as much as the success that you've garnered over the years?

[J.C. Curley]

When it comes to people, all roads come back to people. The problems are just different dynamics disguised by brand or by market condition. But when it comes to people, really. And I think it goes back to that, being aggressively patient. David Where I knew in my mind I needed to make a decision about an individual, and I relied on hope and luck and time and thought it would get better, and it didn't. And then there were times when I might have made a decision too quickly. And I'm like, man, if I would have known and had a little more information, I probably wouldn't have made that decision. But one of the things I did do along that journey of. I found it very difficult to have the tough conversations, like ultimately relieving someone of their role. I mean, it's probably one of the toughest things we have to do as leaders. But if you do it with an element of anticipation, you set the conditions of expectation, you then say, there's gonna be a fork in the road. You have that conversation, you do it in a way that's empathetic, direct and supportive, but yet declarative. I'm proud to say, with that pivot, sometimes learning the hard way, I've had several individuals who, over time, I've had to relieve of their duty, who still I would call friends. I'm a reference for them, and I continue to hold them in high regard for how they handle themselves in a difficult situation. And so I would say the thing I've learned the most is how to set those conditions for people that in the moment that matters most in their life and for the sake of the company, you do it in a way that's appropriate for the situation. You look back and say, despite the difficult decision, we handled it. We all handled it the right way.

[David Novak]

That's a tough one to do. No question about that. But it's great when you can, you know. Last question here. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?

[J.C. Curley]

Don't have a plan B, have two Plan A's. And I learned that from my father, and I really believe it. I think in today's world, when you automatically compromise against a vision or of that you have for yourself or for your team or for your company, and if immediately you go, well, our plan B, by saying plan B, it Means we're not thinking this is going to go to plan. So we'll compromise to a B plan. Why not have two plan A's? And I think, I really believe that. It's, it's. It's hard to say which one's the A and the B, et cetera. But my dad would always say, you know, it's under the heading of keep your options open. He'd say, hey, have two plan A's, guys. What's your two plan A's? And he would challenge us with that. And I think in business, in life, and with your team challenging people to think about the alternatives as not the compromise, but as the alter alternative that could be equally good by having two plan A's.

[David Novak]

Love that, Love that. And jc, this has been a ton of fun. You know, I love what you're doing, I love how you think. And congratulations on all your success and thank you for taking the time.

[J.C. Curley]

Absolutely. I really appreciate it. Thanks to you and the team. All pro setup, Good luck going forward. And again, appreciate the line of questions that got me thinking again. And I'll take this forward as well. Appreciate it.

[Podcast Host]

David. I never knew I would be so interested in Pelican products because I'm not a photographer and I'm not a musician, but yet I see these pelican boxes all the time in airports. But now I feel like I need to go buy a pelican case for every valuable item that I own.

[David Novak]

Well, why don't you?

[Podcast Host]

Maybe I will. What a fascinating leader. JC has had such an interesting career, David, and I'm excited to get your take on some of the concepts that you and J.C. talked about in the episode. As always, we try to give our listeners some real, tangible takeaways from these shows that they can apply right away to their leadership and to their life. And this episode is no different in that it is chock full with insight. So, David, the first thing that I really wanna talk to you about, which is something I found so interesting in the episode, and it's how JC reframes what he sells. It seems like he has this pattern everywhere he goes. When he was at Salomon, he shifted from selling a share of skis to selling a share of the mountains. At Gibson, he talked about how to sell a share of sound, not just sell guitars. And now at Pelican, he's selling shares of protection, not just cases. I'm curious your perspective on how you go about positioning products.

[David Novak]

Well, I think it's really important for you to take your product and put it in its broadest frame of reverence while still being true to what you are. You know, the example I always use on that front was Snickers. You know, Snickers used to be just a chocolate candy bar with peanuts, but they repositioned that brand in a much broader way by positioning it as a snack that satisfies. A snack that brings out that whatever hunger you have, you know, Snickers can do it. And so instead of being an indulgent candy bar, it became a snack that satisfies. It's almost good for you, even though you're eating all that chocolate and caramel and peanuts. It made you feel better. It gave you permission to indulge, and it broadened. Broadened your business. And I think that's what, you know, really makes great brands. And by the way, you know, JC Is a great brand builder. You know, but another good example is Nike. They went from being a shoe company to a human performance company. And, you know, anytime I think you think about your brand, you want to look about it in the broadest sense. You know, Golf Channel doesn't just see itself as a golf television channel. You know, Golf Channel sees itself as owning the golf business, and that's why they launched Golf now. And which helps you get Tee times and Golf pass, which Rory McElroy is really behind that gives you ideas for golf and how you can get better. So all these are great ways to get. Take a brand that you have and give it the broadest possible relevance. And when you do that, you. You usually unlock all kinds of growth.

[Podcast Host]

It's so true, because it really does invite the customer into a much more meaningful and exciting story. Like, if Snickers is just a candy bar that you indulge in, you almost kind of feel guilty for eating a Snickers. But you're so right. I actually reached for a Snickers yesterday. It was the first time in years that I've done that. But I was starving, and I knew I wasn't going to have a meal for a few more hours. And I saw a Snickers bar, and I was like, snickers, because I'm not myself when I'm hungry. And so I grabbed the Snickers and ate it. And of course, it's not actually good for me. We know all these things. But it's proof that when you associate your product with a greater way of being, it really. Snack that satisfies, snack that satisfies. It motivates your customer to take action. And I think JC Is brilliant at that. David, the next concept that I want to debrief with you is JC's idea of his Canadian PowerPoint, a piece of cardboard that he writes something on to present to his team. And I love the simplicity of that in how he communicates internally with his team. And David, from your perspective, what are some other pointers on how we can get better at communicating internally?

[David Novak]

Well, I think, you know, just like a marketer needs to take a brand and make sure that you. You break through the clutter. I think a leader has to break through the clutter with their communication message that they're driving with their team. You know, one way al I did that, I remember I was walking in San Francisco and I saw this store. I saw these four rocks in the window that you could buy, and there were words inscripted on each one of them. And I thought, man, I'm going to take those four rocks and I'm going to create a speech around these things. And the first rock said create. And I talked about the importance of creating vision. The second rock said courage. And on that rock, I talked about the importance when I held it up to the audience, I talked about the fact that you had the courage to be yourself. You had to have the courage to do the right thing. Then this third rock said encourage. And there I talked about the power of recognition and encouraging people to do the things that, you know, will drive your business and recognizing them for it. And then the last rock, believe it or not, was the tiniest rock of all. And on it was inscribed give. And I talked about that being the most important rock of all, because the more you give, the more you receive, the more you give to people, give to others, give to your customers, the more you receive. So I took those four rocks and I turned to a speech that I gave over and over again, you know, where people could basically recite it because I broke through the clutter and gave people things to, you know, key messages that I wanted people to hear, but they could remember it because it was done in a different way. And that's what he does with his cardboard box. And, you know, I think he's right on the money there. Every leader needs to think very hard, not only about what they want to communicate, but how they can do it so that you break through the clutter.

[Podcast Host]

And we're being constantly bombarded with thousands and thousands and thousands of commercial messages every single day. So if it's just another PowerPoint deck that you send via email, it's probably going to look and be processed like every other PowerPoint deck that's sent via email. So I love not only the simplicity of it, but just thinking outside the box in terms of how you actually deliver information. And a cardboard box is a hilarious and effective way.

[David Novak]

Yeah. You know, and by the way, you gotta look for good analogies. Here's another great one, you know, that I just heard about. A really good friend of mine went to the Masters and she had to give a presentation to her sales team. And she talked about Rory McElroy and what she observed in the way, how he warmed up, how he got prepared, how he visualized what he wanted to have happen, how he analyzed the result and went back after a very poor round of hitting the ball and figured out this is how he could improve his iron play, and, you know, how he kept being persistent even in the face of adversity, you know, but she, she, she picked up a lot of these Rory McElroy things that she saw at the Masters and turned it into a presentation. And so she just wasn't up there, you know, talking about a bunch of boring stuff. She, she made it relevant for everybody. And people came up to her afterwards and said, hey, you know, that's really powerful. You know, another great example, I think it's really worked for me. As I always talk about, it's my three by five card where, you know, what are you today? What do you want to be tomorrow? That' very provocative way to get people to think about themselves. And they'll remember a three by five card, you know, they're not going to review a, they're not going to remember a typical performance review or performance assessment, you know, so, you know, think about how you communicate in a way that you, you'll break through the clutter and you'll, you'll be rewarded for it.

[Podcast Host]

David this next topic is on what JC calls helicopter vision. And in the episode, he talks about how his dad was a Navy helicopter vision, and he talked about his dad's experience and how he adapted that to his leadership. So helicopter vision for leaders is where you can fly up to 10,000ft above ground to see the big picture of what's going on, but you can also land on the ground and engage with whatever is happening down there, and then you can float back up when you need to, to maintain your understanding of what's really going on in the big picture. And I know a lot of leaders feel torn between those two. So how do you know which of those altitudes, if you will, that you need to be at?

[David Novak]

Well, I think you have to Be at both. And there are different times when one takes precedent over the other. But sometimes you're struggling, your business is struggling. What you've been doing isn't really working the way how it used to work, and you gotta rethink your business. So you gotta go up. You gotta go up and you gotta see the world. The way out really is not the way how you want it to be. You gotta really see the whole landscape out there, you know, so that you can really figure out what you can do to create a vision and a future back for your company or for your team that will allow you to win. And so I think that's when you go up, and then once you figured that out, you got to go down and make sure you execute the heck out of it. And, you know, but strategy, vision without the execution doesn't work. Everybody knows that. So, you know, that's. That's something that I think you constantly have to do, and you got to have ways to do that. For me, it was always being in touch with the customer, always doing landmark research to try to identify what they were thinking today, you know, what had changed from the previous year. And usually when you lose sight of what's going on there, that's when you got to go up and find new data and see the world in a way that allow you to reposition your brand in a different way or reposition you yourself as a leader in a different way or help your team win. And I think that the big picture in the executional side of things,

[J.C. Curley]

they're

[David Novak]

both very important, and the best leaders find a way to get the magic of the end.

[Podcast Host]

I love the episode. JC says this a couple times. He says, what got you here won't get you there. And so I love that analogy of the helicopter, because if you stay on the ground too long, you run the risk of just doing the same thing with losing sight of the bigger picture. But if you're constantly sort of going between the two, you can continue to evolve and iterate and strengthen every piece of your business so that you continue making strides towards what you want to get done.

[David Novak]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Colin. You know, I think JC is a great marketing person, one of the better ones we've had on the show. And I think, you know, we learned a few things today, you know, that are really, really important. Number one, the importance of reframing what you sell. You know, understand what your product is, what its product functions are. But, you know, make sure you position it in the broadest possible way so that you can, you know, get the most market share in a category. And you know that stickers going from a candy bar to a snack was is a great example of that. You know, and then, you know, you got to break through the clutter with your communication. You know, that Canadian PowerPoint ideas is really great. But, you know, as a leader, you got to know what you want to communicate and then you got to make sure you communicate it in a way that people hear it and remember it and they don't fall asleep and yawn because it looks like and sounds like everything else they've heard. And then last but not least, you know, there's a tremendous characteristic that any great leader has and that's the ability to see the big picture but also execute and get things done. And that's why, you know, taking that helicopter copter ride up and down is very important.

[Podcast Host]

Well, thank you so much for an excellent episode and thank you to our listeners for tuning in to how leaders Lead. We will see you next Thursday.