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How Leaders Lead with David Novak
#292: Kecia Steelman, CEO, Ulta Beauty – Progress over perfection
01:04:39
Listen to this leadership podcast with Kecia Steelman, CEO of Ulta Beauty, and discover how to push forward and make progress, even if you don’t have all the answers.
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- [00:00]
A
Hello, friends, and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David Novak. Today we have Keisha Steelman on the show. And at age 20, Keisha was a single mom living in government housing, making $8 an hour at Target. Today she's the CEO of Ulta Beauty, leading over 1500 stores worldwide and striking partnerships with brands like Chanel and icons like Beyonce and Shakira. Now, that career momentum doesn't happen by accident. And in today's conversation, you'll see that her mindset of progress over perfection is what's helped Keish become the type of leader she is today. Enjoy this conversation with David and Kesha and I'll see you at the debrief.
- [00:44]
B
You know, Kesha, I gotta tell you, I didn't know that we were gonna wear the same color today.
- [00:48]
C
I like it. You're wearing Ulta Beauty colors too. It's great.
- [00:51]
B
A total accident, you know, but you look great and I'm glad to have you on the show. You know, you grow up in a small town in Iowa called Mediapolis, a population of roughly 1500 people. Now you run a 1500 store company. What would 16 year old Kesha say if you had if someone told you that you'd be running 1500 of anything one day?
- [01:16]
C
I don't know that I would have believed it, that's for sure. You know, I was a small town girl with big dreams I think from early on and I wouldn't change a thing. Coming from a small town, small community that was tight knit probably kept me out of a little bit of trouble along the way. But, you know, having humble beginnings early on I think really has been really grounding for me and a foundation of really truly who I am to the core. I'm very thankful for the opportunities I've been given and where I am today. And to have come from a small town like Minneapolis, Iowa, makes me really proud.
- [01:53]
B
Awesome. You know, and, and I gotta ask you, what's one beauty product that you just swear by that you wish more people knew about?
- [02:06]
C
We have an Ulta Beauty lip oil where it's a very. It's clean. So all of our Ulta Beauty products are clean products, which means that they're not chemically derived, so they're safe for all skin types. And one of the things that's really special to me is I have a two year old granddaughter and believe it or not, she's already into makeup and whenever she sees grandma putting her lips stick on, she's like, lip dick. And I can give it to her and Know that she can put something on her lips that's safe for her to be able to use. So it's one of my little go to products that I always carry around my purse. And she knows I'm teaching her at an early age of two that she wants to be a glam girl in the future.
- [02:45]
B
Fantastic. You took over as CEO of Ulta in January of last year. Give us a snapshot of the business today and what makes Ulta unique.
- [02:55]
C
Yeah, well, we operate, as you mentioned, over 1500 stores in the United States. We are now in six countries. When I joined, when I jumped into the role of CEO, we were US based only. We made an acquisition in the uk, we expanded through a partnership in Mexico, and we have a licensed partnership with Alshaya in the Middle East. So it was time to pivot from the first 35 years of being only in the US to taking our brand more globally. We sell everything in our stores from entry level mass cosmetics all the way through luxury. We do everything that's around beauty and wellness in all of our stores. And we have a services component. So we're really the only one that does everything from end to end the way that we do it in the United States and really abroad. So. So it's a special place to be. I talk a lot about that. Everyone can sell products, but it's the DNA of our associates and our company of being excessive and very inclusive that make Ulta Beauty a place that's for everyone, regardless of your age, your gender, your ethnicity. I want to be the place where everybody can come and try to be the best versions of themselves. And I think that's what Ulta BE is about, is making the world feel like a more beautiful place.
- [04:22]
B
Well, you're certainly doing a hell of a job at that. Your Ulta loyalty program has over 46 billion members and accounts for the vast, vast majority of your sales. How do you go about identifying how customers are changing and giving them what they want like this?
- [04:39]
C
Yeah, well, we have tremendous data and insights around our consumer. You mentioned we have 46.7 million loyalty members in our database. 95% of our sales that come through our registers and shopped online are loyalty members. So we have a tremendous amount of information and insights about the people that are shopping in beauty. And we know everything from, like I said, that mass product to luxury, what they're putting in their beauty bag. We have a community also online, a very active community where we'll send out surveys and questions. I would say that we're on the leading edge of understanding trends even more than our brands are. So we oftentimes do what we call get in the kitchen with our brands, where we're telling them there's a white space opportunity, there's this opportunity to bring something new to market. We're hearing about it from our guests, and that's a role that Ulta Beauty has been playing now even more so as we've gotten even bigger. You throw that international component in with us now, and I think that's gonna make us even stronger here in the future. But, you know, the role that we play, it's not just about following trends, it's also about setting trends, which is a very exciting place to be as a retailer. You're not just following, but you're also leading and creating.
- [05:59]
B
What's the biggest trend that you've uncovered that you're most excited about right now?
- [06:03]
C
You know, the one thing that I'm excited about right now is everything's kind of cyclical, it seems like at times. And there for a while was this no makeup makeup look, which actually does take quite a bit of makeup to look like you're fresh faced and flawless. But, you know, heavier makeup usage is coming back. You've got series, TV series like Euphoria, and some of these, you know, new trends that are coming out on the Runway. We just finished the Met yesterday and you saw a lot of really big glam looks, heavier eye makeup. So going back to the late 90s is coming back again, and that's really great for our industry. The other thing is that skin is really important. You know, your. Your skin health and how you feel on the inside reflects how the makeup application really works on the outside. So for me, that's great because it's an add on sale. Like if you're purchasing products to improve your skin quality or you're taking wellness products that improve your overall health, it doesn't mean that you're trading, you're not buying makeup that you're putting on. It just means that you're building your basket. So for me, that's really exciting in this category.
- [07:12]
B
And you've been able to develop some really exciting partnerships. Very successful partnerships with Beyonce, you know, Selena Gomez, they're all choosing Ultra. What's the leadership behavior that wins those partnerships? Because, you know, everybody wants them.
- [07:29]
C
I would say, number one, first and foremost, is that the reach that we have at Ulta Beauty, again, to be able to convert somebody into your brand if they're an entry level consumer or if you're maybe in that mid Range price, bringing a consumer that's more in that luxury end into your brand. Because we cover the entire gamut, I think it makes us a very accessible place for you to launch your brand. Authenticity is really important to me. And, you know, when we bring in a new brand, and especially like a celebrity brand, you mentioned a few, we want to make sure that it's not a brand that the celebrities just put their name on, but that there's really great product behind the brand. And the ones that you've mentioned, I would also call out Issama with Shakira, who created a hair care line. These celebrities are in the kitchen with their, you know, the. As a founder, really working on the formulations, and they're trying it and they're testing it. I don't want to be a company that launches a celebrity brand just because it's got a celebrity on it. But the quality of the product's not good because ultimately we want to serve our guests with having the best in beauty. And that's what our buyers really do a great job of, is making sure that they are putting the best of the assortment on our shelves and online for our guests to be able to purchase. So I think when these founders see how invested we are in real, really understanding the authenticity of the brand, how we can really build their brand in a true, authentic way, and that we want to be true partners with them on the journey, it helps them select us at the end of the day, which makes me really proud and excited to be able to launch and scale with them and grow.
- [09:12]
B
Do you get in with these founders yourself in the in quotes kitchen and come up with ideas together and what's the most fun story you have about one of those experiences?
- [09:22]
C
Well, I would say one of the most fun ones is most recently, I was on a zoom call with Shakira, and we were talking about how do we really continue to bring the brand to life. And I actually had a conversation with her at our annual meeting too. So not only was it a conference call, but then she followed it up and she's like, I told you I was gonna make your annual store managers meeting get the associates excited. And she followed through on that commitment, which was great. She and I were talking on stage about, like, she is using her products, she's trying her products, she's using a competitor product with her own at the same time to just show, you know, the authenticity of the brand. And we got in the kitchen, we were like, we've got to figure out this hero brand. What's the Hero brand, especially when you're launching through a really full market, especially in hair, it's a tough category to break into. So she was listening to us of, like, our feedback and what we're hearing from the customer, segmentation. And, you know, that was pretty cool to actually have Shakira sitting at our kitchen table and we're talking through, like, here's how we can really drive the brand and here's what we can do. And then to see it really start to come to life, you know, is pretty fulfilling.
- [10:33]
B
You know, as I understand it, when you became CEO, you'd been in the company for over a decade and. But you immediately went to work and started rebuilding your executive team and brought in some new people. Tell us the story behind that. And what did you think the company needed that it didn't have?
- [10:51]
C
Yeah, you know, I will say, early on in my career I figured out it's always best to surround yourself with talent that in some ways is even better than you. That's how I've gotten to be where I am today. It's not always the people that I've worked for. It's the people that have worked either for me or with me that made me into the leader that I am today. And having a front row seat to see Ulta for. It was almost ten and a half years before I stepped into the CEO role. You know, what got us to where we were for the first 35 years of our company, I knew wasn't going to be the same skill sets we needed for the next generation of growth. And I had the advantage of kind of having a front row seat to that. And I knew what we needed to and we had great leaders on the team. I don't want to be disparaging to any of the people that were in the roles before, but it was time to pivot into a new style. Different skill sets. The world is changing quicker today than it's ever before, especially in this space. And there's really three things that I look for. I look for functional expertise, people who are the best at their craft, highly collaborative in nature, where they play well with others. Because I've been on teams before where they were great leaders, but they didn't necessarily always play well as a team. And those that put enterprise first. It's not just about your area of responsibility. It's about what's the greater good for the enterprise. And that's the leadership team that I've built. And I feel we are very well positioned for the next phase of growth here at Ulta Beauty. It's fun. These are tough jobs. For those of us that have been in retail, we'll understand you put in a lot of hours and a lot of time, but when you enjoy who you do it with and you know, everyone's aligned and you're in a tough retail environment, man. I've got the right team around me to be able to take this company to the next chapter of growth. And that, to me, is really exciting. And I think that's one of the roles that I play as a CEO because it trickles down. You know, you hire great leaders, they also hire great people, and it filters through the entire organization and it's just fun to watch it play out. I couldn't be more proud of the team I've got around me right now today.
- [13:01]
B
What do you think is more important, the personal ambition or organizational ambition?
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C
I think you got to have a balance of both. Overuse of a personal ambition without having the enterprise first will not be good. I look at sports teams and some teams out there that have had star players, but if you don't, the star player doesn't share the ball, the team's not going to win. I look at that within my own team, too, is I want to have people who have personal drive and personal growth and want more, but not at the sacrifice of the enterprise and the team. They've got to be balanced in both. And, you know, I've always said I can teach anybody any skill. I truly, truly believe that if you're. You're driven, you can learn any skill, but I can't teach you how to be a good team player. You kind of either have that or you don't. So I think you gotta have a balance of both. You gotta have somebody that wants that drive, but not at the expense of the organization first.
- [13:58]
B
Well, you've made a lot of big moves in the company to get to where you're at, obviously. And, you know, one of the things years ago, I know that you were the one that the impetus that, you know, put Ulta into target, you know, what was your thinking at that point in time?
- [14:11]
C
Yeah, I mean, I was, you know, I was one of the players that was under Mary Dillon and Dave and myself were part of that decision to go into target. You know, it was being a disruptor. And I think you've got to be a disruptor in order to continue to look at how do you continue to drive growth and share. And we felt like, let's try this and let's just see what happens. Could we get our brand in front of, you know, the millions of guests that are walking into Target. We've subsequently decided, both Target and we, that, you know, that the relationship has kind of played its way out. Target's really focused on their own beauty part of the business. And I really feel like when I look at what our strategy is and where I want to take our business in the future, I came up with Ulta Beauty Unleash Plan, and I'm going to be moving my resources, really, towards more of what it is that we can do to grow. But, you know, retail is cyclical and retails and cycles. And I think part of a good leader, what they do is you try things, you see them out, and then when it's time to pivot, you make those pivots as you need to. And in August, we'll be ending that partnership with Target. But I'm really glad we did it. We learned a lot along the way. I feel Target did also, and I think we're both going to be better off in the future with working on our new strategic plans independently.
- [15:31]
B
Yeah, you know, Target is obviously a huge partner, but what is it in you as a leader that you had to muster up to make a big call like that? Because I would imagine that was a big call.
- [15:41]
C
I will say that if you ask people about me and my leadership, there's a couple of things that come up, is that I am pretty bold. I'm a big believer in moving forward, in making decisions is a better move than spinning and getting stuck. I think that if you move forward, and let's just say that you do make the wrong call, you can always pivot, but you're at least moving forward in a direction versus overanalyzing, overthinking things and getting yourself stuck. And I think that, to me, those decisions aren't necessarily tough decisions. And, you know, at the same time, I'm pretty well thought out when I make a decision. I've really done my research, my discovery, taken good partners, but then when I'm ready to go, we move. So to me, I don't know that that necessarily was a tough decision to make. It was, let's do it. We knew the marketplace was going to be. There was this partnership that we had a feeling that one of our competitors was going to have out there, and it was like, let's go try this. Let's go do it. And I'm a big believer, and many times you learn from these experiences, and it makes us even stronger on the other end. So I didn't think that it was necessarily a tough decision to make.
- [17:01]
B
So you were the chief operating officer before you got promoted, and you obviously knew all aspects of the business. The. The. The nitty gritty. You know, a lot of CEOs get the stereotype of not being strategic. You know, how have you been able to overcome that? Or do you think it's BS to begin with?
- [17:18]
C
No, I mean, I. I think, you know, if truth be told, I grew up in operations for the majority of my career, but I've always had this intellectual curiosity of pushing the boundaries, and I'm okay with being uncomfortable, and I'm okay with not having 100% of the answer. In fact, I share often with my teams, I'm 80, 20. Like, if we've got 80% of the plan, let's move, let's move, and we can finalize that last 20%. That might be a little different than a lot of traditional operators are, because they like to have everything kind of buttoned up before they go. So for me, I like to move in a positive, forward direction. And I love retail, I love the consumer, and I love our associates. And I think when you have a mindset of keeping the consumer and your associates at the center of all the decisions you're making and you're pushing that boundary of what's not out there and what's next, I think naturally that's pushed me to be a little bit more strategic in my mindset and my thought process.
- [18:23]
B
Tell us a story about when you used that 80:20 mindset and it really paid off for you.
- [18:27]
C
Yeah. A recent one is TikTok. So, you know, we made a decision that we wanted to be on the TikTok shop, not only participate in marketing on TikTok, but we wanted to do live selling on TikTok. And, you know, they're like, we want to do this. And I said, well, we need to do this fast. And I said initially, like, how long do you think it's going to take? And, you know, the traditional ways of working would have taken us probably a year, you know, a year to get a dot. And I'm like, listen, we've got our Ulta Beauty World is coming up, which is our big consumer event following, following our annual meeting. Why would we not want to take advantage of that and do TikTok live? And they're like, well, we've never really thought that we could maybe do that that way. And I'm like, listen, it doesn't have to be perfect, but let's get out there and let's take advantage of this one milestone, that's a meaningful milestone and maybe let's do it in a non traditional way. Well, it was fun. Not only did we hit that timeline, the team was ecstatic. And I said, if you do this, I will go on TikTok live and I'll do live selling myself. So I stuck with my commitment and I was out there like a QVC or HSN person myself, selling my Kesha's favorite bundles, which sold out by the way.
- [19:46]
B
You might have just worked your way into a full time job.
- [19:49]
C
No, I said, hey, listen, whatever it takes as a CEO anymore to drive business in retail, I'm all for it. But you know, just put a challenge out there and tell the team, like figure out the non traditional way to get things done and if it's not perfect, that's okay, we'll learn. But let's move, let's move quickly. And I think that it was a really good lesson for our team that, you know, you don't have to be perfect, you have to have progress. So progress over perfection is really the way to go. And you know, we've used that example already many times internally, which has been great.
- [20:22]
B
It's great to have those, you know, you know, Amazon's not, you know, is a competitor, you know, that's going after every retailer right now. What's the one thing you've done as a leader to make sure that they don't take your customers? I mean, how do you, how do you insulate your business against somebody like them?
- [20:38]
C
Yeah, I'd say that there are a few things. Number one, we have this human aspect and element to this category, specifically where the guest does like to touch and feel and trial. Newness and innovation is really important in beauty and I'm always looking at the newness and innovation and the pipeline and I feel really good about that with our brand partners. That's part of that. I mentioned earlier getting in the kitchen with our big brands and we've got a lot of indie brands that have launched with us. So you know, that's a really important part of our ecosystem. I'd also say our services component are here. Makeup services. You know, you can't get that just from an online only retailer. And then one thing that we've really leaned into in the last year, and I like what I've seen and we're going to continue to lean into it, is this experiential shopping. So eventing is very important to us. We had over 110,000 events in our stores. So think about a brand coming in, bringing in their educators, teaching people how to use new TikTok tricks and tips for makeup usage. I mean, even though I'm a big makeup, I think I'm a makeup guru. I'm always learning new things. And the more that you can create those kind of experiences in store, I think continue to, you know, strengthen that moat for us as a beauty retailer against online only players. The other thing I would say is that, you know, I'm very close to the consumer. We ship from store, from our stores. So speed of delivery, which used to be one of our competitive disadvantages, now I've kind of shrunk that timing. We have same day delivery now through our third party marketplaces. So the places where we were at a competitive disadvantage, we've minimized those and we've continued to lean in those things that make us special and why you would want to come in shop our stores. And then just the last thing is this loyalty program that I talked about earlier is like, you earn your points, you get dollars back for your points. So if you're going to make a to buy an item, people who are in our ecosystem, which again is 95% of our guest base, they understand the value of that loyalty program and they will want to spend their dollars with us versus having it diluted someplace else.
- [22:55]
B
So you're a makeup guru. Okay. You obviously know your category and you're proud of it. How do you stay on top of your game? I mean, how do you keep getting better? So you talked about learning. What do you do to become even a super guru?
- [23:13]
C
Well, what I will say is I spend, as a CEO, I spend a lot of time with the brands. I think it's important to be really connected to the brands. I also go out to stores a lot and I'm talking to consumers myself and to our associates. Our associates on the front line are some of the best piece of feedback I can get as a CEO because they're the ones that are engaging and they represent our brand every day. So I think not staying in my office and just reading literature, but being out there, being out there with the brands. Being out there in the community with our stores, customers and the associates, I think helps me continue to learn and grow myself.
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B
What's the best idea, Keisha, that you picked up from a retail associate, a store associate?
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C
Best idea is that we needed to have like a quick tutorial on what's less than a 10 minute I application. Speed is really important. You know, not everybody has hours to get ready, you know, in the morning. So to, you know, come up with a regimen that we could do like less than 10 minute, I. Here's three steps. So simplification. Simplification. Simplification was something that I'd heard from, that our associates that I actually took to some of our brands to say the more you can simplify and make it easier for an everyday consumer to get a real glamorous look or the look that they want. I think when you can close that gap, that's gonna help us continue to drive the business.
- [24:49]
B
Now this is so much fun. I wanna keep diving into how you're leading this great company of yours, but I wanna take you back for a minute. What's a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today? We talked about your small town roots, but you know, what was it like for you growing up?
- [25:05]
C
You know, I will say I came from very humble beginnings and my parents got divorced when I was in high school and I actually had to go to work pretty much full time in high school to help my mom pay the bills and, you know, to really learn the value of a dollar and appreciate how hard my mom really worked to reinvent herself later on in life. That stuck with me forever. The drive that, that instilled in me to be financially independent myself and to also continue to push myself to learn more day in and day out. I didn't want to stay in a small town, Iowa. Not that there's anything wrong with that. When I go back home, I'm so appreciative of that. But I had big plans for what I wanted to do. Did I ever think I was going to be a CEO one day? No. But I just wanted to continue to learn and grow and challenge and get myself out of my comfort zone. And for that I'll be always thankful. I do think that those are character building moments that form us into who we are today.
- [26:14]
B
So your mom is your biggest inspiration. What do you think she taught you that you just couldn't learn anywhere else?
- [26:22]
C
Resiliency and grit, the two and you know, she subsequently went and started her own business on her own and my younger sister ended up going to work with her. She just retired not that long ago. So she was working into her 70s. And that to me, you know, just seeing her in person just push herself to do more and to provide for her family just meant everything to me.
- [26:49]
A
Hello friends. I hope you're loving this conversation. Be sure to stay tuned to the very end of the episode. As always, David And I are going to debrief some of the concepts that he talks about with this week's guest. So stay tuned to the very end, and I will see you soon.
- [27:03]
B
You know, you had your first child, as I understand it, when you were 20. As a single mother living in government housing, how did that period of life impact your leadership?
- [27:14]
C
Yeah, well, I would say, you know, again, these are the stories that create us and make us who we are today and I think give us the character that we have as leaders. And I would say, you know, just the power of belief in oneself. I often talk about this story, and it's just so clear in my brain of, I was in the projects, and my daughter was in the little walker walking around, and I'm in this little half bathroom looking in the mirror, and I'm like, this is not where I want to be. And I thought to myself, the only person that can get you out of this situation is looking right back at you. So what are you going to do about it? And I just was like, I prayed that night. I just needed somebody to give me an opportunity to be able to learn and grow. And I was going to work as hard as I could and show whatever company was going to give me a chance what I could do. And that's when I went to work for Target, and so thankful for that opportunity.
- [28:12]
B
So you, as I understand it, in that situation, you started out making $8 an hour. What was the biggest lesson that you Learned in your 12 years working there, if you had to? Just pick one?
- [28:25]
C
Yeah, I mentioned this earlier. It was about surrounding yourself with people that were even better than you were. And I didn't have the opportunity to get the college education that many of the people who actually ended up working for me had. And so I, through osmosis, was able to learn from them. I also know what I'm good at and where I needed to learn and grow. And I think sometimes leaders are intimidated by hiring people that are better than themselves at maybe where their weaknesses are. And I just wasn't. I was like, hey, listen, I feel blessed to be in this job and in these roles. I want to hire the very best people that can actually make me better as a leader myself and learn from them. And I think just having that level of humility to even say to people that were on my team, hey, quite frankly, you're better at this than I am, it creates this. It kind of breaks down this barrier, this wall between boss and employee, where it becomes more of a team. And I've carried That with me, really through every position I've been on, even into the CEO role today, it's like, you're not successful on your own. This is. Well, I have a title. It's not just a one person job. You're only as good as those people that you surround yourself with. And when you can create an atmosphere where people can really authentically be themselves and be honest and direct and you can have those candid conversations. Because I'm still very humble and blessed and I'm still learning. There's no finish line. Just because you got the job doesn't mean you know everything.
- [29:57]
B
And you were a store manager, right? Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, how many CEOs really have that background of really knowing how it happens at the front line?
- [30:10]
C
Yeah, well, I mean, I started as an hourly employee to a store manager, to a district manager, a regional, then into merchandising. So I think really understanding and walking in some shoes of others, especially in retail. I mean, I've been at this over 30 years. That gives me a very different perspective and a unique perspective that I think, you know, keeps me very, very grounded. In fact, when I go into stores, I will always make sure I talk to the cashiers. And people are like, that might be viewed as a little odd. Well, the cashier is the last person anybody purchasing something in my store sees. They can have a great shopping experience, but if they have a bad experience with that cashier, it tarnishes the entire experience. So I always go in and talk to the cashier about how much I appreciate them, how important they are, that they represent the brand of our store in our company even more than I do, because they're the ones that the guest is interacting with. And I think having that perspective from growing up in retail maybe gives me a little different viewpoint than maybe others.
- [31:11]
B
And you went on to go to Home Depot. You know, it's great. This background that you have that's leading you into the beauty industry. You know, you go to Home Depot, where I understand Carol Tomei, who I've had on this show was. She was a CFO at the time. She had a huge influence on you. Can you talk about that?
- [31:28]
C
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, I just saw Carol not too long ago and I just shared with her. I often have used her as an example of a female that I greatly, greatly admire. She was tough. And I learned the importance of, if you're going to go in and ask for dollars, you better make sure that you're asking with a really good game plan. Because she was going to follow up on did that investment pay out? And I often think about that today when, you know, we're making choices of investment in Capex or OPEX dollars and Ulta Beauty, it comes back in my mind of like, okay, well, you're going to need to come back and show me what that ROI is, because if you don't have the roi, it's not going to be as easy to get the money the next time. So you better be asking with a really good plan behind it. And for that, I'm always very appreciative. And, you know, when I was at Home Depot, there were not a lot of female leaders that were in the officer ranks at the time. And she just was really someone that was approachable, tough, fair, and was an advocate for other women. And for that, I'm always grateful and very thankful. And, you know, to see her be successful as a CEO at ups, I'm cheering her along. So it's great.
- [32:38]
B
She's done a great job, you know, and you joined Ulta in 2014, and, you know, you were doing a great job, but as I understand it, you were passed over for promotion at one point in time. How'd you handle that?
- [32:51]
C
Yeah, you know, listen, there have been a few times where, you know, we've all been there, where you think you're the one and then you don't get the job. And I think that there, I've said this a few times, I think that there's two ways you can go. You can either be better or you can be better. And I've always chosen the path to be like, okay, maybe it stings right now, but I'm going to take a step back and what is it that I can do to get myself ready for that job that's going to make me even better for it? And that's every single time where I have not gotten the position. It's happened the way that it's supposed to. You know, and energy is a big thing to me. And I talk about this with my team. It's like how you spend your energy, what you spend it on, Spend it on things that are going to propel you in the right direction. And, you know, I see so many people, they don't get something, they get angry, they get upset. They, you know, that's wasted energy to me. It's like, I'm going to spend it on, okay, I'm going to take this opportunity to be really ready. Then when my time comes. And again, I couldn't be more proud of where that's taken me into this role that, you know, as a little girl growing up in rural Iowa, I would never have believed I would be the CEO of the largest specialty beauty retailer. It's a job that most girls, I think, would envy to have. So it's worked out well for me. I've shared that with others many times. It's like things happen when they're supposed to just keep moving forward. And what can you do to take this opportunity to be even better when the time is right for you?
- [34:20]
B
Yeah. And you started out as hourly, you worked your way up in operations, and now here you are, the CEO. And one of the big responsibilities the CEO has is to really develop a great culture and to scale that and to make sure that everybody understands, you know, how you move ahead and how you work together. How are you going about that, Kesha?
- [34:38]
C
I believe in simplification. You know, even our strategy, it's the Ulta Beauty and Leash strategy. We've got three cores to the core parts to the strategy. I want to make sure that we're using language and a clear understanding that everyone from the back room of a store to our boardroom clearly understands what it is that we're trying to do and the role that they play in that. And I think that some simple language sometimes, like, I've been parts of organizations, great organizations, that's like, I don't know what it is that we're trying to do. I'm just, you know, trying to move forward. But I do feel like our teams really understand, and they're inspired and they're motivated and they understand the why. I think that's also really important. And that goes back to, like, when I was working in stores, like, I would be doing things. I'm like, I don't understand why I'm doing this. I'm doing it, but I don't understand why. When we can give the associates the answers to the why, they feel a little bit more invested in it. So I think that's a role that I play as a CEO is clarity of vision and mission. Clear strategy that everyone understands what their role is to execute the strategy and then deliver it. And when you keep doing that and you keep putting the wins up, the momentum does change within the organization. And I've seen that happen this last year.
- [35:57]
B
How do you know if the team is really aligned? How do you know that you're really getting your message implanted?
- [36:04]
C
Yeah, well, I think we do a lot of around culture culture surveys. I do skip level meetings with various levels within the organization. I also think that every once in a while, you've got to phone a friend and be like, hey, I need you to tell me the truth. Sometimes when you get to these levels, people tell you what they think you want to hear. That's not what I want. I want tell me the truth. Because the only way that we can keep moving this company forward and be, you know, getting the teams along is everyone. If everyone's really clearly aligned. And that, to me, is really important. Spending time with associates, listening, being out there, being engaging, and creating an environment where people can tell you that they don't agree. And that's very, very important. To me. I. That's just as important as people that are like, yeah, I'm all team on board, great. If you're not, I value and respect that just as much. But I want to hear why, like, tell me why. And maybe there's something I need to change.
- [37:04]
B
What behavior do you love rewarding the most at ulta?
- [37:09]
C
People who are problem solvers, I love rewarding. I've identified a problem and they come in and they say, this is the problem. And here's what I think some of the solutions could be. I think that's a mindset that I really value and appreciate, not just bringing problems and having a victim mentality or like, this is being done. To me, it's like, no, this is a problem. This is what I think we could do. Or even having multiple versions of different plans that they've thought through it. That means a lot to me.
- [37:41]
B
I love the simplicity of just phone a friend to really get some great feedback. You know, speaking of feedback, what's the toughest feedback you've received as a CEO?
- [37:50]
C
I wouldn't say that it's tough. It's hard for me to. I have a really hard time saying no. And sometimes you can get stretched. Because I want to be everything to everybody and to be told, I think you need to probably start to say no a bit more. And that's hard, personally. Very hard for me, especially when I felt like we had some momentum that we needed to course correct. I felt like I needed to be out there. I needed to be there for my team and to keep up the pace that I was doing. My first year probably was not sustainable, but it was necessary and to learn to have to say no, because I have a fomo. I have this fear of missing out sometimes, but I'm working on it. I would say I'm in recovery of this, saying no, but watch out for fomo.
- [38:42]
B
It'll get you in trouble.
- [38:44]
C
Exactly. Exactly.
- [38:45]
B
You know, well, 91% of your associates are women. What's something you've learned about leading women that most male CEOs get wrong?
- [38:54]
C
I think that we have to be very flexible. And, you know, I'm going to take this from myself personally. When I was coming up through retail, I did feel the pressure of, like, I had to be the first in the office and I had to be the last to leave to show that I was committed to the company because I did have a family and I didn't necessarily always have the support behind the scenes on raising the family. And so for me, I'm very big and I talk very openly. Like, do not miss the soccer games. Don't miss the choir concerts. Don't miss the parent teacher conferences. I trust you that you'll get the job done and you'll maybe do it in your own authentic way. Maybe it's a different in time. Maybe it's working after the kids go to bed. I think I am a lot more adaptable than maybe some other leaders can be. It's because I've been in those shoes before. And I do think that creating an environment where you give that flexibility and you allow that trust there, you get people that want to work even harder for you.
- [39:58]
B
You've talked about identifying women and leaders that have the it factor before they even see it in themselves. Walk me through what that looks like. A specific moment, a story, maybe when you spotted someone and how it played out.
- [40:14]
C
Well, it was interesting. I just happened to have a skip level conversation. And so it's not just women, it's also men. A skip level with one of my male leaders today. He's a regional vice president. And I shared with him, I saw it in you before you saw it in yourself. And he's like, I know you did. And he said, that's what makes me want to work even harder for you, is because you believed in me before I believed in myself. And I think part of it is when you've led large teams and you've seen people and how they react and how they engage with people. I can kind of see when somebody has that special something and I verbalize it. And the reason that I take the time to verbalize it is because maybe somebody has never done that for them in the past. And just even a little like something, like, I see something in you. I see something greater in you than maybe what you see right now. You can do more. You can do more. Push yourself out of your comfort zone. Somebody did that for me early on in my career and it stuck with me that I can make a difference, especially in this role with the thousands of people that I run into. And if I can lay that seed where they believe that they can do even more and push themselves for a little bit more, it could change the trajectory of their career. And that to me is the most rewarding part of my job.
- [41:33]
B
What's something that you're doing at Ulta with AI that other leaders might be able to apply to their own businesses?
- [41:43]
C
Well, I mean right now we're definitely leveraging AI on our loyalty platform. So really understanding how the guest is shopping, how are they engaging in purchase patterns and behavior? And some guests like a gift with purchase, some want a discount. Like how we're really leveraging our marketing dollars and investing them very wisely. We are fortunate to have such a rich first party data loyalty platform. Some of the things that we're doing with AI is even around our content creation and how we're putting content in front of the consumer. You know, it's content is really important. You have to have a lot of content. So how you leverage AI to help you in creating some of the content, but then putting the personal approach to it so it can give you the framework of what you need to do. I think one of the things that everybody's got to be careful of is if it gets too augmented and it's too much AI and it doesn't come across as authentic, you're going to turn people off and you're going to lose that guest. So I'd say that's another place that we're really leaning into. And then all around customer service. The more you can improve your customer service, whether if it's calling on a return, et cetera, how you can speed those interactions up, I think and do it in a way that really works. Leveraging AI for the good, I think that's going to be an unlock for us also in the future.
- [43:09]
B
How are you personally using AI to level up your leadership?
- [43:14]
C
Yeah, you know, I, I was just sharing earlier today like I'm, I'm leveraging AI every single day. It's kind of one of my CEO challenges of like I've got to, I want to be using AI in some way, shape or form. So you know, I was looking at some documents and reading through them and rather than like reading through and then sitting down and then typing my feedback, I used Claude and just talked into my microphone of like what my thoughts were. And while it sounded like it was A random. Just thinking from myself. I asked Claude then to make it concise and provide feedback on the strengths and opportunities that I had shared in my feedback that I had put in my phone. And it came up and I had to make a few tweaks, but it was like, well, this is pretty darn good. This saved me a tremendous amount of time. That would have taken me a lot more time to have to have done it in the traditional way. So time is my most important asset. So the more I can find ways to leverage AI to make my time more efficient, I think that's going to be a huge win for me.
- [44:26]
B
What's something, Kesha, that you've had to unlearn as CEO that you used to
- [44:31]
C
believe that I had to have all the answers? You know, when growing up, especially when you're a functional expert, more like singular functional expert, and you got some more senior leadership positions, there was a lot of reliance on that you would have all the answers. And when you. I think I kind of learned this more as the coo, as your areas broaden, you know, I was in charge of IT supply chain stores strategy. To be an expert in all those is impossible. And to not have the answers, but to know how to get the answer and to give yourself the grace of some time. I had to unlearn that because again, growing up in a pretty male dominant retail industry, I had to be. Well, I felt like the best, and I had to have all the answers and to relearn that and to take that burden off myself. I learned before I stepped into this role, but I'm glad I did because it's impossible to know everything and to have all the answers. And it's almost a danger to feel as a CEO that you have to have all the answers, because that's impossible.
- [45:40]
B
You know, Keisha, this has been so much fun, and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this?
- [45:45]
C
I am.
- [45:46]
B
The three words that best describe you.
- [45:48]
C
Decisive, Bold. Gritty.
- [45:50]
B
If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?
- [45:54]
C
Beyonce.
- [45:55]
B
Your biggest pet peeve? Biggest.
- [45:57]
C
Laziness.
- [45:58]
B
Who would play you in a movie?
- [46:00]
C
I'm just saying I think this person is beautiful, so I'd like her to play me, but she looks better than me. Jennifer Lopez.
- [46:05]
B
A beauty trend you secretly hope never comes back.
- [46:08]
C
Blue eyeliner.
- [46:10]
B
An Ulta product you couldn't live without.
- [46:13]
C
I mentioned earlier that the Ulta Beauty Lip Oil.
- [46:17]
B
Where were you when you found out you'd been named one of Time's Women of the Year.
- [46:21]
C
I was actually. I just landed in Indonesia.
- [46:25]
B
What's something you've been curious about lately that has absolutely nothing to do with work?
- [46:30]
C
I'm really interested in getting into more of the World cup, so. The World Cup? I want to understand a little bit more of the dynamics around the World Cup.
- [46:39]
B
Now, I can tell you're becoming a true international and an international that answered the one thing you do just for you.
- [46:46]
C
This may sound crazy, but I'm adamant about my sleep. Like, I prioritize my sleep.
- [46:53]
B
Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession?
- [46:57]
C
I'd say my dog.
- [47:00]
B
If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?
- [47:04]
C
Oh, I listen to a wide range of music, but I'd say I do really like EDM house music.
- [47:10]
B
What's something about you?
- [47:11]
C
Few people would know that I'm a speed reader.
- [47:15]
B
And what's one of your daily rituals? Something that you'd never miss.
- [47:19]
C
I read the newspapers in the morning, first thing.
- [47:22]
B
All right, we're out of the lightning round. Good job there. Way to go. All right, just a few more questions, and I'll let you go here. You and your husband, Gray, you know, you have a blended family of five kids and a few grandkids. How do you think about leading at home? Kesha?
- [47:38]
C
I really am very present at home. And it's one of the things that I think, being a young mom myself, I was really busy, and I was probably distracted a lot. And now I have three grandchildren who I just absolutely adore. And when I get time with my kids and their spouses, I am very, very present when I'm home. And that I'm really proud of that when they have me, even though it might not be a lot of time, the time that I have is very present.
- [48:06]
B
How do you make that happen?
- [48:08]
C
I treat my personal calendar as important as I do my work calendar. If I have something that I've committed to my family, I would never, ever think about missing a board meeting or an important meeting with a brand. I need to treat my family the same way because they're very important to me, too.
- [48:24]
B
You've said balance is important, but striving for perfect balance will set you up for failure. Talk more about that.
- [48:32]
C
Well, I think that these are demanding jobs, and you have to lean in and do what it takes to get the job done. I have a lot of people that are relying on me to make great business decisions for the company, whether it's the stakeholders or it's the associates. That are counting on having a job here. So, you know, I'm all in on doing what I need to do to help this company be very, very successful. But then I also know when I need to take a break and take a little bit of time to myself and not get overly burned out. So, you know, if you look at trying to have perfect balance, you're going to set yourself up for failure. But I know myself well enough to know when I need to take a break and do a recharge and I have a great team around me now that I can be able to do that. So. But it's just not a perfect balance of 50 50. It just doesn't work that way.
- [49:21]
B
What do you see as your unfinished business both for Ulta and you personally?
- [49:26]
C
Yeah, I think the unfinished business for me is just to continue to widen that moat that separates us from others. I think to continue to be a disruptor in beauty. We were one of the original disruptors when Ulta Beauty came to life, you know, 36 years ago of doing beauty a different way than one has ever done before. I still think there's still the next chapter of what that looks like here for us at Ulta Beauty. What's that next generation look like? I believe even leveraging technology and the tools to continue to improve this human interaction, we should be on the leading edge of that. And this is a great category that we shouldn't be following trends, we should be setting the trends and we are the beauty authority. And the more that we can just continue to lean into that with our brands, I think will continue to set us up for the next chapter of what Ulta Beauty looks like. Not just from a US beauty retailer, but from a global beauty retailer.
- [50:26]
B
How hard has it been for you to get an international mindset now that you start to go around the world?
- [50:31]
C
I would say it's not been overly difficult. I love to travel and I'm a big believer in like I, I like to walk the country and, and be foot on feet on feet on the ground. Nothing replaces. You've got to see it. You've got to understand the retail environment. You've got to immerse yourself into it and understand how that consumer is shopping and be authentic to our brand. Be authentic to the consumer of the country. I've seen too many US based countries, companies that take exactly what they do and put in another country and expect it to be successful just the way it is. I want you to be able to walk into an Ulta Beauty store and know it's an Ulta beauty store with some tweaks. With some tweaks that are about the culture of the area that we're in. And that, to me, has just been really important. And I've traveled a lot. I've traveled literally around the world this last year, but feet on the ground, nothing replicates that. And then also really listening to our partners and not being the big US company that thinks that we know all the answers, but being really open and listening and truly valuing where we are going, I think will continue to set us up for success.
- [51:43]
B
You know, you mentioned earlier, you know, as a female leader, you know, you felt a lot of pressure to know everything. You know, work harder, beat, and be there longer. You know, stepping back now with the wisdom that you've gained as you've become the CEO, what advice would you give to women specifically on how they can move up and what the real key is?
- [52:10]
C
Yeah, I would say that you have to get out of your own way. I think sometimes as women, we put so much pressure on ourself that we need to have everything mastered before we can go to the next level. I would say that 80:20 rule applies for you in leadership, too. When you feel like you're getting too comfortable and the job is getting easier, that's time for you to ask for more or to share that you want to do something different. And don't wait to master the position that you're in before you give yourself permission to go on to what's next. Push yourself to continue to stay out of your comfort zone and share exactly what it is that you're wanting. And I think too often we sit back and we wait for somebody to say, you're doing a great job. I'm going to tap you on the shoulder. You've mastered it. It's time to go to the next job. I don't think you should do that. I think you should share exactly what it is that you want. Don't wait till you master it, and continue to push and advocate for yourself for more. If you don't ask, you won't get.
- [53:07]
B
Okay, last question here. What's one piece of advice you'd want to give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?
- [53:15]
C
That there's no finish line and that you can learn from absolutely everyone. Don't minimize the impact that you have by listening. My dad told me God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. Listen twice as much as you talk and, you know, really look to learn from every interaction that you have. Ask questions and really listen to what those answers are. And I think that that can help you be an even better, stronger leader in the future, because you can learn from everyone, no matter what level they're at.
- [53:48]
B
Well, Keisha, I've learned a lot just listening to you, and I really appreciate you being on this show. And congratulations on the success. And I can tell you that those associates are very lucky to have a leader like you who knows the business so well, is so caring, and knows the importance of staying ahead of competition and being on top of the trends.
- [54:08]
C
Thank you so much, David. It was fun to have this conversation.
- [54:16]
A
David, I'm on cloud nine after listening to the conversation that you just had with Kesha. I've been vying for her to get on our show for a long time, and I am thrilled that it finally happened. And you wouldn't know this, but before we dive into the debrief, I do want to point out to all of my millennial women listening to this podcast, Keisha talks about how late 90s makeup trends are coming back. And just for this interview, David, you wouldn't know what I'm talking about, but I promise you, the women know I did line my waterline with eyeliner, which is part of the 90s makeup trend that's coming back. So shout out Keisha for being super close to the trends and shout out all the girls who want to bring waterline eyeliner back to the party.
- [54:56]
B
By the way, it looks like you have more makeup on than I've ever seen you make have on. And I think that's also coming back if I'm. That's. She mentioned that as well as.
- [55:05]
A
Absolutely.
- [55:05]
B
As a self professed makeup guru. And she really knows her business. Well, she loves her business. She loves, loves all the details of it. And I was very impressed by that.
- [55:18]
A
I was, too. David, I'm excited to get your take on some of the concepts that the two of you just talked about. The first one is this idea of progress over perfection. And it's clear that Kesha is the type of leader who knows a big idea and is ready to run with it before it gets to 100%. And she really runs on this 8020 rule. She tells her team, if you've got 80% of the plan, go ahead and move forward and we'll figure out the rest as we go. And so, David, I'm curious, from your perspective, when you hear that, how do you know when you're crossing the line from being bold and just getting your team to go versus being reckless with an idea that's half baked.
- [55:55]
B
80% means you think you're pretty confident that you're confident that idea. I mean, you're 80% confident it's going to work. And yeah, there's some things you got to work out, but you're confident enough as well that that 20% that needs to get to 100. You'll figure it out only after you get in the get and get customer reactions and, you know, supply chain issues, whatever they might be, you'll figure those out and you're confident enough of yourself and your team that you're going to be able to figure it out. So I've seen organizations get so paralyzed by the perfect leader, you know, oh, they just keep sending you back, sending you back, sending you back, you know, with one more thing, you got to look at one more thing that's got to be buttoned up and, you know, sooner or later you got to, what do they say? Proverbial, get off the pot. Okay. And you gotta act. And I think 8020 is a great, great way to think about it.
- [56:47]
A
It's so interesting too to hear about the success they've had from using that philosophy. I mean, she talks about them going live on the TikTok shop and that was a huge decision for her. But instead of waiting for it to get to 100%, she just got it to 80%. And they figured out the rest along the way, including her going live herself on TikTok and talking about all of her favorite products from the Ulta beauty world.
- [57:09]
B
And she was quite a star on TikTok, you know, so she was indeed. She almost worked herself into a full time job.
- [57:17]
A
I love it, David. The next thing I want to talk about is this concept of getting better, not bitter. In the episode, Keisha talks about, you know, getting passed up for promotions as she was coming up in her career. And instead of getting bitter, she wanted those situations to make her better. And I just love that line, better, not bitter. And I'm sure, David, that you've seen people respond both ways when they get passed up for a promotion. So what in your perspective, what in your opinion separates the ones who get better versus those who get bitter?
- [57:52]
B
I think the first thing they do is they crush it where they're at. They know that they've got to do their job extremely well before they can get the next job. Okay. If they get passed over, they are very reflective, they're self reflective, they have high self awareness and they learn what it was that they missed, missed out on having or demonstrating to get that next job and then they, they go after it. So let's say, you know, people didn't think I have enough financial background to, to, to, to get the next job. They go get the financial background, they do enough to make sure that that's not going to be something that's going to derail them and it's something that can propel them because they will at least check the box. So I think self awareness is really the key, but it's also attitude. Better not bitter is that's an attitudinal thing. Now the other thing is that's really great here, is that she loves her company. She didn't want to go anywhere else. She loved the company, she loved the culture, they were treating her well. She just didn't get the job. So she didn't get bitter. She said, I'm going to get better. And you know, I think she'd still be there if she wasn't the CEO, but she'd still be working on what it would take to become the CEO. But she's been there for almost a decade and she's had tremendous results. So she certainly is well qualified to get it done.
- [59:13]
A
That reminds me of one of the insights that I have taken with me from our episode with Scott Hamilton when he talks about failure being 100% information. And not that not getting a promotion is failure, but if you even frame those situations where you get passed up on a promotion or something like that as 100% information, it does force you to tune your attention inward and really use that as a reflective moment versus
- [59:35]
B
just blaming other people and take that opportunity. Great point, Kulika. Take that opportunity to get the information, to get the feedback that you need to grow forward, you know, So I remember I had something similar like that when I was at PepsiCo. Wayne Calloway, the chairman of PepsiCo, thought I was a really good marketing guy. He told me that I was a really good marketing guy, but he didn't see me as a division president. And I realized that what I had to do with him was to demonstrate that I could really get into the operations, the nitty gritty, the processes that take, you know, the P and L, how to make money. And that's exactly what I did. And then I got promoted to be president, but I used being passed over okay as information. I remember when somebody got a division president job, I had so many people call me and say, how do you feel? What do you think about that? And that's when I knew I was going to become president because at least people were starting to see me that way. But I did need to demonstrate that I could really do operations as well as marketing to become a division president. And I knew it because I got that information. And I'll tell you what, Kesha was very good at that as well.
- [60:40]
A
It comes through clear as day during your conversation that she looks at any sort of setback as 100% information and reflects deeply enough to figure out how to course correct and get to where she wants to be. Which, David, brings me to the final concept that I just really, really loved. It was very moving for me to hear her talk about it. And it's this kind of seminal moment in her life. And it's when, you know, she's 20 years old, she's a single mom, and she's living in government housing, and she talks in the conversation about a moment where she's looking in the mirror, and she kind of just has this come to Jesus moment and realizes that the only person that's going to change her situation is the person that she's looking at in the mirror. And from then on, her life really changed. And I want, David, you to break that down. When you kind of see where Keisha is now and know that that's where she comes from, what do you pinpoint as the real defining characteristic that. That led her to where she is?
- [61:37]
B
She is a strong believer, although she doesn't necessarily espouse it in. In this podcast. But it seems to me she really believes a lot in free will and that she. She has the free will to choose, you know, how she's going to react to something. And she. She decided that she wasn't going to be a victim. You know, the worst thing that I see many times with leaders and people who are in disadvantaged situations is they. They develop a severe case of victimitis. They come up with all the reasons why they can't do this. They're almost. They almost in their own life, they become Eeyores. Okay. And, yeah, this thing, you know, make no mistake, some people do have tougher backgrounds, and it is a lot harder for a lot of people. So I'm not minimizing that. But what you really have to admire, and there are so many stories of so many people who've done it, is they have that mirror moment where they look in the mirror and they take accountability for getting out of the situation that they're in because they know that no one else can do it but them. And that's what she did. And the other thing is she never, ever forgot where she came from. And she learned from her upbringing. I think that's why she has such an empathy for the front line. She started out as an hourly worker, and she remembered what it was like to be at the beginning, you know, and making $8 an hour. She's never forgotten that. And she's the first one to tell you how much she learns from. By going out and talking the front line. And because she, she was the cashier, you know, she was a. She was a store manager. She was, you know, she. She knows the power of being closest to the customer and learning from people who are closest to the customers. But she's just a really good leader. And I just loved her passion for her, for her company, and I loved her passion for her industry. And, you know, I'm going to make sure that, you know, I buy some of that lip gloss and give it to. Give it to some women I know who might really enjoy it.
- [63:40]
A
It's always wonderful when your man has a backup set of lip gloss or chapstick.
- [63:45]
B
I know. I, I'm trying to remember that, and I don't always have it.
- [63:51]
A
Well, David, for our listeners, as we wrap up this debrief, what's the one thing that you really want listeners to take away from this conversation and apply to their life?
- [63:59]
B
Three things in particular that we hit on here. Progress over perfection. Be better, not, not bitter. And, you know, take advantage of those, those mirror moments and turn yourself into something better. Very, very powerful.
- [64:15]
A
I love it. Well, David, thank you so much for another excellent episode of How Leaders Lead. And thank you to Keisha Steelman for joining us on this podcast. And, of course, thank you to our listeners. Stay tuned for another episode of How Leaders Lead, and we will see you next Thursday.