← How Leaders Lead with David Novak
How Leaders Lead with David Novak
3 More Questions (Clark Hunt) with David Novak and Koula Callahan
00:13:31
Topics include: Leadership during change, casting a vision in a team, and leading with humility.
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Transcript33 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
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B
Everybody. And happy first Monday Night Football of the season, David. We made it through another off season and I'm just so glad that football is back.
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A
Me too. I mean, how do we live without it? But, you know, the great thing about the NFL and you know, I did this podcast with Roger Goodell, is they keep football going all year long.
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B
Yeah, they do.
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A
They have developed that brand so well, from whether it's draft day to all the preseason camp and people, you know, running the 40 and going through all the, all the things that they do. They got TV happening and news happening throughout the year and it's exciting to see. And you know, and even, you know, like the Chiefs this year open up against the Chargers in Brazil.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, they're going to Brazil and it's a global sport now. And you know, what the NFL has done is, I think, a case history and brand building that everybody should learn from.
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B
Absolutely. And speaking of brands that people should learn from, talk about the Chiefs. David, today we're debriefing your conversation with chairman and CEO of none other than the Kansas City Chiefs. It's Clark Hunt. And I know that you are a die hard Kansas City Chiefs fan, and this conversation was incredible.
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A
Well, I grew up in Kansas City, Kula. I grew up in Kansas City.
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B
And you also lived in Dodge City.
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A
Well, yeah, that's true. But. But Dodge City doesn't have a football team, but Kansas City does. And you know, I've been to Arrowhead Stadium many times and enjoyed the run that the Chiefs have been on. And I hope they have another great season this year. And I'm sure they will.
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B
I'm sure they will. They will. As long as Patrick Mahomes is playing quarterback. David, they have built dynasty like performance. And the conversation you have with Clark gives listeners a peek into just how he does that, how he sets his team up for dynasty, performance and competition year after year. And I'm excited, David, to get your take on some of the stuff that you talked about with Clark Hunt in today's episode of Three More Questions.
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A
Well, let's do it.
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B
Question number one, David. I'm a huge football fan and even I didn't know just how much turnover there is in the NFL. Clark says that basically every year you're starting your team from scratch. And here's a fun fact. Only six players from the 2020 Super bowl team of the Kansas City Chiefs are still on the roster today. Five years later.
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A
That's right, only six. I remember him telling me that. That blew me away.
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B
Yeah, it's crazy. And David, I'm curious from your experience, how can leaders keep this high performance year after year in the face of constant change and turnover like that?
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A
Well, I think you have to understand what you have to do to, to keep that high level of performance. And that means you gotta have a real keen sense of reality. You have to be able to look at your team and understand what the strengths are, the weaknesses are, and then be absolutely focused on leveraging those strengths and then filling the gaps to make sure that the weaknesses are not there. When you think about what you've gotta do to get the kind of results you're looking for that year. So, you know, for me in business, we always had what we call our people planning review process where we put our strategy up and then we said, do we have the people in place to really execute what needs to get done? And we would identify the fact, well, maybe we need somebody in technology or maybe we need somebody in marketing that can take our consumerism to the next level, you know, but it was a constant understanding of your people reality that, you know, is the key to driving results in any business. If you don't have the people in place, you're never going to get the results that you're looking for. And obviously when it comes down to football teams like Clark Hunt, you, you know, he understands that you gotta have the talent, you know, and if you don't have the talent, you're not going to win. And frankly, what happened to Kansas City last year is that it was pretty clear in that super bowl that the Eagles had more talent. And I guarantee you that Kansas City Chiefs organization is not been sleeping at night. They're going out to try to fill the gaps that's going to get them to the point where they're going to take on Philadelphia again and win.
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B
That's a bold prediction.
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A
But I, or whoever it might be, I believe in the Kansas City Chiefs.
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B
I know you do. That's a bold prediction, David. And I, I love in the episode how Clark places such high emphasis on the culture that they've created at the Chiefs. And when you think about that many new players joining the team every year, you've got to be really clear about what you are inviting them into so that either they decide to lean in to the culture you've created or not.
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A
Yeah. And he has great processes to do that in terms of what he does, how he articulates what the culture is, how he has other players articulate what the culture is. He really is a big believer in one. I Know, as a major dynasty driver for any team that gets consistent performance is that everyone counts. He really believes that. You know, from the people that work in the locker rooms to the people that are the admins in the front office to his vice presidents or whatever, this guy believes that everybody in the organization knows that they need to know that they count. And if everybody does their job well, it's all going to add up to where you're going to have another tremendous performance. And that's what he's really keen on driving.
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B
Question number two. A theme that I'm taking away from your interview with Clark is to prepare for success even before you achieve it. When Clark took over as CEO, he told his team that he wanted to create a dynasty that competed at the highest level year after year. And at the time, most people on his team were just hoping to make the playoffs. They hadn't seen dynasty like performance year after year. I love this mindset of preparing for success even before you achieve it. What can leaders do to get their teams to believe in that vision that might feel bigger than what they think is possible?
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A
Well, I think Freud said this, or somebody who really knows a lot about psychology said this, which is you become what you think you are. And I think it's so important for leaders to let everybody know what they think is possible and let everybody know that they have it within themselves to make it happen. And if you can see it and you can believe it, you know, it can happen. But without that, without that vision and without a belief that you can make that vision come true, it will never happen. And that's a big job of leadership. And, you know, it's not enough just to see it and believe it. Yeah, that's true. That. Then you have to be so maniacal about making sure you put the things in place that allow you to execute to achieve that vision. And that's what I think the best leaders have. They have this incredible ability to not only strategize and have great vision, but they also are so passionate about execution because they know if you don't have execution, your vision will never become a reality.
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B
Communication plays such a key part in that, too, I think. You know, you said you can't only just have the vision. You've got to put the people in place to do it. You also have to communicate it over and over and over again so that people don't forget where you're taking them.
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A
Yeah, absolutely. What? You know, people say that all the time, right? Communicate, communicate, communicate, you know, and that's what you have to do. And you know what? That's why you also need to have something that people want to hear again and again. They want to hear a vision that's compelling, a vision that has a noble cause, a vision that if they execute it, they're going to be a part of something special. When you can communicate that and do it over and over and over again, people want to hear that message because that fires them up to do it over and over again.
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B
Question number three. Clark said that the most important advice he'd give to another leader is to be humble. But here's the tricky part. The leaders who aren't humble often don't realize that they're not humble. So David, for people listening, what's a good gut check to know if you are actually leading with humility?
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A
You know, it's really kind of funny is, is that I always ask in my lightning round of questions the three words that best describe you. And you know, I've always laughed a little bit when a few of my guests have actually said humble. Well, if you're describing yourself as humble, I don't think that makes you very humble. I think, you know, and by the way, you know, I can say that I think I'm humble in the sense that, you know, I've never forgot where I come from and that I grateful for all the things that, that I've had and continue to have and you know, many, many reasons why I could rationalize that I'm humble, okay? But the fact is I know I have an ego, okay? And I got to manage that ego every single day. And you know, so I think the first thing I would say is that when you are in a leadership position, you have people who are going to tell you how great you are all the time. It's just going to happen. So if you believe it, your ego will potentially get way out of control. So what you have to have is an understanding that, you know, people are well meaning, but, but a lot of times they're giving you more, more kudos than you really deserve. And what you want to have are people who can support you and encourage you, but at the same time are truth tellers. You know, they're going to tell you, hey, you know, you may not be looking at it this way or that way. So I think, you know, one of the things you, you really have to do is make sure that you, you really are telling people that you want them to give you this skinny. You want to hear the real skinny. You don't want to just hear all the accolades. You. You want to hear what really needs to be done. You want the truth. And so I think the other thing is, is that you need to let people know that you need them. Just say, hey, God bless it. You know, I can't do this alone. There's. I can't accomplish anything big by myself. I need you. You know, John Wooden told me once when I had the opportunity to interview him late, John Wooden said, you know, once you don't feel needed, you're through. You know, if you're really leading with humility, you let people know that you need them, and. Because that's going to give them purpose, and they're going to know that they're valued. But you have to do all of this with a sincerity and genuineness where people know that you're coming at it from the right place with your heart, and you're open and you're vulnerable, and you know that you just can't win without them.
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B
We talk a lot on this show, David, about how great leaders have that uncanny combination of confidence and humility. And it's this great paradox of life, being able to hold both the things, you know, you're really good at and the things that, you know, that you struggle with and the really great parts about being a leader and the really hard parts about being a leader. So I think that, you know, holding space for both sides of the spectrum at any given moment is, number one, a skill you can learn, and number two, what keeps you grounded and tethered to that humility and reality.
- [11:27]
A
Yeah, you know, the confidence and humility, that combination, that's the balance. Right? You know, you can be so overly confident that your ego gets out of control, and you don't give people a sense that you're really grounded or that you have a real clue what really needs to be done. And then you can be so overly humble where people, you know, you don't inspire confidence. It's like, oh, you know, this guy's always denigrating themselves and, oh, I. I'm not really this or I'm not really that or whatever. You know, I think people want their leader to be something. They want their leaders to be somebody that you can look up to and aspire towards. So, you know, it's that blend that I think we're trying to get at all of us as leaders. It's that the magic of the end, you know, confidence rooted in competence, you know, that inspires others, and then the humility that says, I need you and I can't do it. By myself. It's that balance that I think is what we're really trying to go after.
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B
Gosh, David, for an episode where we talk about the NFL, we just got pretty deep for a second there. I guess it's the power of the.
- [12:36]
A
And that's because you're bringing out the questions, Kula, that provide hopefully a little bit of depth. That's why I like being on this show with you, because, you know, I think we're both growing together and we're trying to get better, and we both know that we need each other to perform.
- [12:51]
B
Absolutely. David, thank you again for another fantastic episode of three more questions. And thank you for listening to another edition of How Leaders Lead. We're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And if you carve out a little time with us each and every week, we'll help you build the confidence you need to lead well.
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A
And coming up next on How Leaders Lead is my interview with Hayden Brown, the CEO of Upwork.