← How Leaders Lead with David Novak
How Leaders Lead with David Novak
3 More Questions (Greg Johnson) with David Novak and Koula Callahan
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- [00:05]
A
Welcome to Hot Leaders Lead. I'm Kula Callahan here with David Novak to bring you another edition of three more questions. David, I always say this, but this is also a really fun one because we're debriefing your conversation with Greg Johnson, who is the owner of the San Francisco Giants, who just so happen to be on a roll right now in the mlb.
- [00:23]
B
Absolutely. They are off to a fantastic start. And he's also the executive chairman and chairman of the board of Franklin Templeton, which is a fantastic company that he's grown along with his family for a number of years. So this is a guy who knows how to build dynasty like performance.
- [00:40]
A
Heck yeah, he does. And I have to give a shout out to my boy Yaz. I went to college with Mike Yastrzymski. He plays for the Giants. He's a legend. So, Yaz, if you're listening, just know you got a couple fans over here at Howe Leaders Lead.
- [00:53]
B
Well, Mike Yustremski, you certainly are in a legendary family for sure because Carl Yastrzemski was my hero and I do remember him playing for Boston and he was amazing.
- [01:04]
A
Well, speaking of dynasties, the Yastremsky family certainly is one. So shout out to Yaz, both big and little. David, Today though, we're going to dive into these questions. Are you ready for it?
- [01:15]
B
Fire away.
- [01:20]
A
Question number one. I love an episode when Greg talks about resisting the urge to override decisions from his people. Instead, when someone brings him a decision, he focuses on asking the right questions to help them then make a better decision because ultimately they're accountable for their part of the business. David, how can leaders empower their people to own decisions while still ensuring that they deliver on what matters most?
- [01:44]
B
Well, I think first and foremost you have to realize as a leader that telling isn't selling, you know, telling people what to do. It's not going to really take you that far and people aren't really going to buy into it. And I think what you really have to remember is the most powerful thing, the most powerful decision you can ever make is when you come up with it on your own. When you can actually see everything around you, see the data, use your creative instincts, et cetera, and then make a decision. That's when you own the decision. If your boss tells you what you need to go do and how you need to do it, you're not going to have near the ownership than you will if you've really done the due diligence itself and come up with a conclusion that you own yourself. So I Think what a leader really needs to do is to feed the beast. You know, really feed the talent that they have and, you know, give them all the knowledge that they have and all the help that they have to really make the right decisions. And the best way you can do it is like Greg says, you know, ask questions that get people to come to their own conclusion. And one of the things I always asked was this question. What perception, habit, belief do you have to change, build or reinforce or grow the business? Or what perception, have a belief do you have to change, build or reinforce to take people with you? If you ask those kinds of questions of your people, they'll figure out what they really need to work on to grow it, and then they'll figure out what they need to work on to take people with them. And then that's a powerful combination that can help you get great results.
- [03:11]
A
David, one of the most powerful things that you've ever taught me is something that Larry Bossidy actually taught you. He says you take the joy of the job away when you take the joy of the decision away. And that's been so powerful for me over my career.
- [03:24]
B
Yeah. And I think if the leader can just remember that, and if the leader's smart and understands their business and has really earned the right to be a leader, if you can just remember that point that Larry made, I guarantee you, you know, you're going to be ahead of a lot of other leaders and you're going to. Your people are going to love working for you if you really operate with that as the basis.
- [03:46]
A
Question number two. Greg talks about finding the right balance between analytics and the human element of managing a team. He even says that sometimes there are so many analytics that you can actually lose sight of that human element completely. How can leaders avoid over indexing on data and analytics and still keep people at the heart of their decision making and leadership?
- [04:09]
B
When you ask me that question, it reminds me of a book that I'm reading, a book by Barry Diller, and he's a media mogul, Expedia. This guy's one of the great iconic leaders of our time. And, you know, he came up in the Hollywood business and the movie business and a creative business, and he talks about how you just can't let data get in the way of making decisions. You know, you can understand it, but what you have to have is that creative instincts and all the really great leaders have a creative instinct. They have that intuition that they follow. And you've got to have people who have the courage that can do that. And I think he is, he's so right. You know, I always look for people who wanted to get grounded in their business. They wanted to, to understand the business, the totality of the business, what was all about, what really makes it tick. But then once you have all those facts and once you have that understanding, then you've got to have the creative instincts to take you into new ground and then the creative courage to really make the decision. And one of the things that Barry talks about in his book is the importance of having creative conflict. And I like to always call that productive conflict. And I think that comes from when you get all the analysis on the table and then you get all the creative ideas that are out there, and then you really beat those ideas to death to come up with the one that really works. And that's when you have what I call a healthy debate, healthy decision. And that's how I think you really get there. So, you know, I think if you are just a creative person, but you have poor judgment, good luck, you're going to take people down the tubes. Okay? But if you're a creative person who has good judgment and it's really founded in an understanding, understanding of what the customer's looking for and what's right at this point in time, man, that's when you find the magic in the bottle, the elixir that everybody really wants to find. And Barry Diller, I tell you, everybody should read that book because he's a very interesting guy. But I love the way how he thinks and in this case, he's very much on the creative side and not the analysis yet. You know, I've interviewed a lot of people on this podcast who really talk about the importance of data and getting all the data and getting it right and then making the best possible decision. So, you know, it's kind of reminds me of that old magic of the. And if you can really have good data and have the creative instincts, woo. It's nirvana. And that's what, that's the ideal. But if I have to pick one person that I want to hire, I want to have the person that has the creativity, the vision, the person that can see something that other people can't see. Because I think that's how you get to the ultimate promised land.
- [06:45]
A
Question number three. Greg talks about the importance of setting the tone at the top, especially as you expand a business into new markets and maybe hire people from different cultures. From your experience, David, at Yum Brands, expanding into new countries, what are the most important ways a leader can set that right tone from the top.
- [07:04]
B
Well, I think there's only one way to set that right tone from the top, and that's to make your culture and what you stand for the number one priority that you have as the leader. I don't care if you're leading a team or you're leading many groups in a company, or you're. You're leading the entire organization, you should be focused on setting the tone from the top. If you're the leader and setting the rules of conduct for how you're going to work together and how you're going to grow together and how you're going to really make the business better. And I think if you set those values and make those clear, make those behaviors clear, that's how you set the right tone. And then you got to, you know, shout them from the mountaintop, you know, anytime you can talk about it, talk about it, recognize people that are doing it. You know, when you see it, if people do great things, tell everybody the reason why they did those things is because of the behaviors that we know are really powerful in this company. And I think that's how a leader casts the right shadow. We always talk about the shadow of leadership. People will do what the leader does. And if the leader says, this is the way how we do business around here, this is what we really stand for. The people on the team, they want to move ahead, they're going to do what the leader does. That's just the way it works.
- [08:10]
A
I love, David, the stories that you tell about introducing the art of recognition into new cultures. In China and India, when you're at Yam Brands, people met that with some criticism. But when you really think about it, humanity is humanity, whether you're in India, Saudi Arabia, the US Or Canada. And people want to be cared about, and they want to be recognized when they do a great job. So I love this idea of just from the very beginning telling your people that it actually is all about the people and the culture that we create. Because it really doesn't matter where you go, that concept is going to be the same because you're dealing with human beings who long to be cared for and recognized wherever you are.
- [08:53]
B
Yeah, and I agree. You know, people are people everywhere. People are, you know, wake up with the same kind of desires in Indonesia as they do in India or they have in Indiana. That's just the way how it is, and that's been proven to me over and over again.
- [09:06]
A
Well, David, we get to see how the giants continue to do this season. I really hope that Greg Johnson gets that World Series win because he wants it so bad. You can tell, as probably does every other MLB owner. But the way that he leads that team and the heart that he has for his people and the team and how he manages it is so real and tangible, especially when you listen to this episode. So I'm, I'm cheering for the Giants this year.
- [09:30]
B
Well, they've got their hands full. And I, I've always personally been a Kansas City Royals fan because I grew up in Kansas City, but I would never, never root against the Giants, especially since I know Greg and he's such a terrific leader.
- [09:46]
A
Well, that does it, David, for our episode of three More questions for today. Thank you so much for tuning in to How Leaders Lead. We're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And if you carve out just a little time with us each and every week, we'll help you build the confidence you need to lead.
- [10:01]
B
Well, coming up next on How Leaders Lead is my conversation with Guy Lureiro, the chairman of Walmart Mexico, also known as walmax. And this guy has such a smile and such a passion about himself and such an intensity that I think is absolutely contagious. And he has a lot of good insights. So be sure to listen to this one.