3 More Questions (Klaus Kleinfeld) with David Novak and Koula Callahan

Summary

How Leaders Lead with David Novak

Episode: 3 More Questions (Klaus Kleinfeld)

Host: David Novak with Koula Callahan
Release Date: September 22, 2025

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Episode Theme & Purpose

In this “Three More Questions” edition, Koula Callahan interviews host David Novak as they debrief his recent conversation with Klaus Kleinfeld, renowned former CEO of Siemens and Alcoa. The focus is on actionable leadership insights inspired by Klaus’s experience—delving into motivation, energy management, and the practical execution of big visions. The discussion serves to translate Klaus’s wisdom into practical strategies for listeners, with stories and frameworks that can help any leader elevate their impact.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The Power of Motivation in Leadership

(00:48 - 04:30)

• Legendary Leadership through Human Capital

  • Klaus Kleinfeld’s leadership at Siemens stood out because of his deep belief in motivating teams not only for performance but from the “soul level.”
  • Koula Callahan: “Klaus is the type of leader who really understands the importance and the value of motivating your team and making motivation a key piece of your culture.” (00:53)

• Measuring and Cultivating Motivation

  • David Novak emphasizes the necessity of going beyond formal culture surveys.
  • David Novak: “The classical way to measure your motivation…[is] culture surveys… But I think what leaders have to do is really know your people, know your audience.” (02:18)
  • Leaders must look for visible signs of connection and engagement—if “nobody's eyes are lit up, you know you're really not connecting.”
  • Emotional engagement comes from leaders sharing the “noble cause” of their work; people want to belong to something great rather than just “making a buck.”

• The Power of Stories

  • Stories reinforce the organization’s noble purpose and make employees feel their work matters.
  • David Novak: “Look for those stories… That’s what [the] employee was saying to Klaus when he said, ‘You gave us your soul back.’” (03:44)
  • Koula Callahan: “An excellent way to get to the heart of those people and what they're feeling is stories.” (04:30)

Notable Quote:

• “You want to have people pumped up, coming to work every day, wanting to do something that's exciting… Human capital and how people feel is what really drives your business.”
  — David Novak (01:08)

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2. Managing Energy, Not Just Time

(04:55 - 07:56)

• Klaus’s Multi-Dimensional View on Energy

  • High performance is sustained by managing four energies: physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.

• David’s Practical Routine for Energy Management

  • Physical Energy: Daily morning workouts are crucial. If you wait, you may never do it.
  • Mental Energy: Prepares for the day by reviewing his schedule and meetings.
  • Emotional Energy: Keeps his mood and mindset positive to make better decisions (“You make your worst decisions when you’re angry and resentful. You make your best decisions when you’re high up in gratitude.”)
  • Spiritual Energy: Begins each morning reflecting on what he’s grateful for, which frames the day’s outlook.

• The ‘Assimilation Points’ Model and Focus

  • David uses an exercise with colored chips to illustrate focus: prioritize tasks that matter most (“blue chips”) rather than wasting energy on low-impact items.
  • “You only have so many assimilation points that you can handle in a day… Are you spending your assimilation points on the right things?” (06:55)

Notable Quote:

• “Focus on the things that really matter most… Are you spending your assimilation points on the right things?”
  — David Novak (06:55)

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3. Turning Vision into Reality: ‘F Squared’ Approach

(08:02 - 09:44)

• Balancing Dreaming with Execution

  • Klaus insists leaders excel both in dreaming big and in reality-checking their dreams.
  • Koula Callahan: “You can't just have dreams. You also have to be an executor.” (08:19)

• David’s ‘F Squared’ Formula: Focus & Follow-up

  • Follow-up: Execution fails when leaders don’t check on progress; real results need systematic, consistent follow-up.
    • “So many people start something, but they never follow up. And… follow up is the biggest thing that really drives execution.” (08:29)
  • Focus: Avoid spreading the team thin with new ideas before completing prior actions. Ensure efforts stay aligned and manageable for the team.
    • “…before you go after that next idea, make sure you focus on what you've already asked people to do.” (09:17)
  • Constantly adding initiatives overwhelms teams and undercuts execution.

Notable Quote:

• “That frustrates people more than anything… when leaders just keep coming up with ideas…not recognizing that they haven't already done the first thing.”
  — David Novak (09:24)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On “Giving Our Soul Back”

  • “He reminded people how much what they do really matters. And when you do that, it's extremely powerful.”
    — David Novak (03:31)

• On Energy Rituals Among Leaders

  • “In almost all of the lightning rounds that you've done…it’s working out in the morning and some sort of meditation or reflection. The best, most successful people are doing these things.”
    — Koula Callahan (07:27)

• The Birth of ‘F Squared’

  • Koula Callahan: “‘F squared.’ I love it. That’s a new Novakian term.” (09:44)
  • David Novak: “I watched F1 this weekend… And so that's a dream and I'm gonna have to execute by following up and make sure it happens.” (09:48)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:48 - Introduction of Klaus Kleinfeld; importance of motivation and “human capital”
• 02:18 - Measuring and driving motivation; the need for knowing people
• 03:44 - The impact of stories and noble cause
• 04:55 - Managing energy vs. managing time
• 05:19–07:56 - Detailed practices for managing physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual energy
• 06:55 - The “assimilation points” analogy for focusing energy
• 08:02 - Dreaming vs. executing; “F squared” (Focus & Follow-up)
• 09:44–10:01 - Inspiration for “F squared”; connecting F1 racing to leadership action

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is upbeat, practical, full of humor, and features the conversational warmth and real-world candor characteristic of David Novak and Koula Callahan. Personal anecdotes, leadership stories, and straightforward language keep the advice relatable and immediately actionable.

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Takeaways for Leaders

• Prioritize inspiring a sense of purpose (“noble cause”) in teams.
• Measure motivation both formally and informally; seek out candid stories.
• Routinely manage all four types of energy—especially with habits of exercise, gratitude, and intentional focus.
• To turn big visions into reality, focus relentlessly and follow up systematically: “F squared.”
• Don’t overwhelm teams with new dreams before finishing what’s started.

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For further insights:
Listen to the full episode, and stay tuned for next week’s conversation with Paul Brown, co-founder and CEO of Inspire Brands.

Transcript

[David Novak]

Foreign.

[Kula]

Everybody. And welcome to another edition of Three More Questions, where we put David Novak in the hot seat and get his takes on what he discussed with the previous week's guest. David, great to see you.

[David Novak]

Great to see you as well, Kula.

[Kula]

Today we're debriefing the conversation that you had with Klaus Kleinfeld, who I am awarding as the man with the most interesting name that. That you've ever interviewed on the podcast. I love saying his name, Klaus Kleinfeld. And I also love, in the lightning round with Klaus, he says that his most profitable business ever was actually dressing up as Santa Claus when he was younger, when he was like a young boy. Klaus as Santa Claus. I thought that was amazing.

[David Novak]

Santa Claus. Get it, everybody.

[Kula]

Well, Klaus is the former CEO of Siemens and Alcoa, and he's the type of leader who really understands the importance and the value of motivating your team and making motivation a key piece of your culture.

[David Novak]

Yeah, I think you want to have people pumped up, coming to work every day, wanting to do something that's exciting. And he really realizes that and understands that human capital is just as important, if not more important than the financial capital. In fact, it's the human capital and how people feel that's what really drives your business and gets you to have the profitability you're looking for in the end.

[Kula]

Anyway, I love it, too, because Klaus is from Germany and Siemens. When he took over as CEO, he spent a lot of time in a lot of countries. And that concept, David, of human capital is universal. And so this episode will apply regardless of what type of business you're in or where you do business. Question number one. Klaus said one of his favorite moments in his leadership at Siemens was when one of his employees said to him, you gave us our soul back. He goes on to emphasize the importance of knowing how to deeply motivate your people at that soul level. David, motivation is one of those intangible things that lots of leaders talk about, but few know how to impact. So I'm curious, how can leaders measure motivation and what can they do to drive it in their organization?

[David Novak]

Well, I think the classical way to measure your motivation and how you're really driving the cultural values that you have in your company is to do culture surveys where you really dive deep into, you know, how people feel you're actually delivering as a company, as a group of people, as a group of leaders, on the principles that you espouse. So that's a formal way to do it. But I think what leaders have to do, you have to really know your people, know your audience. And you have to really understand the importance of building the capability, building that intangible that allows you to really motivate and inspire people. You know, if you're looking out at your audience when you're talking to them and you see a bunch of glazed eyes and nobody's eyes are lit up, you know, you're really not connecting. But the best leaders have what I call, what I think a lot of people call the it factor. They just. They have this it factor that lifts people up, inspires others, and people really want to. Want to follow them, and that's an intangible. It's really hard to get at. But, boy, the best leaders have a real knack for figuring out how to get that done. And I think the way you get that done is that you're. You're constantly looking for stories. You're looking for stories that really drive home what the noble cause of your company is. You know, people, as I've said before, they do not go to work every day wanting to be a part of something mediocre. They want to be a part of something great. So you want to give a noble cause to your work. And. And that's what employee was saying to Klaus when he said, you gave us your soul back. Because he reminded people how much what they do really matters. And when you do that, it's extremely powerful. I mean, we had a lot of passion at Taco Bell, for example, on the notion of just really making food extremely affordable for everybody. And that was the same kind of value that drove Walmart, where they wanted to make everybody be able to buy things at very affordable prices. Walt Disney wanted to make everybody's day and light up everybody's day with a smile. But these are all much bigger things to get focused on than just making a buck. And I think that's how you really motivate people, is you get to that noble cause of why you go to work.

[Kula]

It's so true. David, those formal culture surveys don't always get the real, honest truth about how people are feeling about the work. So I think to your point, it's part of the leader's job to really sniff out what it is that's happening behind the formal surveys and get a sense for how people really feel about the work that they do. And an excellent way to get to the heart of those people and what they're feeling is stories. So I love that you got to.

[David Novak]

Look for those stories. We all have them, and you got.

[Kula]

To look for them Question number two. Klaus said that the key to sustaining high performance is managing energy, not just time. He talks about the fact that there's physical energy, mental energy, emotional energy, and spiritual energy. And great leaders know how to manage each category. David, how do you think about managing your energy?

[David Novak]

Well, I think the physical energy makes a great deal of sense. I believe that's why I worked out every day. You know, I wanted to get myself energized to go to work, and I wanted to get the exercise out of the way, get my metabolism going. And, you know, if you haven't worked out and you want to do it, and if you don't do it in the morning, you're thinking about when are you going to get to do it? And then by the end of the day, you're tired and you don't do it. So I always try to knock that out right at the beginning. The mental energy to me was just getting myself, you know, really ready to go, understanding what was happening in my day, what my calendar looked like through each meeting, trying to figure out what it was I was going to need to do to make that meeting successful. The emotional energy was just making sure that I had my mood in the right place so that I could make the best decisions. You make your worst decisions when you're angry and resentful. You make your best decisions when you're high up in gratitude. And I tied that into my spiritual energy, which is every morning. I try to get up every morning and write down the things I'm really grateful for. And when you do that, it kind of puts everything into focus. And speaking of focus, you know, I think that's one way how you can really keep your energy high is focus on the things that really matter most. You know, we had this training exercise where we had blue chips, white chips, and red chips. And, you know, we said, okay, in the next 30 seconds, we threw all these things out on the table. We said, pick up as many chips as you can, okay? And everybody goes in there and picks up all these chips. But nobody asks what a blue chip was worth, what a red chip was worth, or what a white chip was worth. Of course, the blue chips were worth a lot more. So if you'd have gone in and picked out those blue chips, which there weren't that many of them, versus all the white chips that you could pick up that really didn't really matter for much, you would absolutely, you know, be so much more productive in terms of what you do. You got to realize you only have so many assimilation Points that you can handle in a day. There's only so much stress you can take. So think about that. In terms of a unit of 100, you got 100 assimilation points that you can pour into your day. In terms of things that you can focus on, put your energy on. Hey, are you really. Are you spending your assimilation points on the right things? I always try to ask myself those kinds of things as I went about my day.

[Kula]

David, in almost all of the lightning rounds that you've done with guests, for sure, the past 50 episodes, we've done, I think maybe 95% of the answers to the question, what's one thing you do every day? Is something that you never miss. It's working out in the morning and some sort of meditation or reflection. The best, most successful people are doing these things to manage their different energy categories so that they can use their assimilation points in the right way.

[David Novak]

Yep. Absolutely, Kula. Absolutely. And they do it after they get their cup of coffee. No.

[Kula]

Just kidding. All right, question number three. When Klaus talks about vision, he talks about how he starts in the dream phase, but then runs the reality test against that dream. He says, you can't just be a visionary. You can't just have dreams. You also have to be an executor. What advice do you have for leaders who might be great at dreaming big, but struggle to make those visions practical and real?

[David Novak]

Just off the top, I'd say F squared. F for follow up. Okay. So many people start something, but they never follow up. And, you know, follow up is the biggest thing that really drives execution. You got to make sure that you. You really, really make sure that people are getting done, what needs to be done. And that only happens if you have real systematic process for following up to make sure people are getting things done and then holding them accountable for doing it. That really drives execution. Besides follow up, that other part of the F squared is focused. What happens is that people don't execute well because they're so good at dreaming. They keep dreaming things up, and then they move on to the next thing before they've done the first thing. And so, you know, before you go after that next idea, make sure you focus on what you've already asked people to do. And that frustrates people more than anything is that is when leaders just keep coming up with ideas and keep overwhelming with the things that they need to do, not recognizing that they haven't already done the first thing that they asked them to do. And there's only so much an organization can do. There's only so much a person can do. You have to have focus if you really want to get execution and you can't spread yourself too thin.

[Kula]

F squared. I love it. I'm taking that one. That's a new Novakian term. I haven't heard you say that.

[David Novak]

Well, you know why I came up with that? I watched F1 this weekend. So there you go. Which I loved. Which I thought was a really fun movie and it was kind of nice to have a feel good movie come along.

[Kula]

Especially since you interviewed Zach Brown. You know all about F1 now.

[David Novak]

Yeah, he's in. He's actually in the movie. And that's one of my to do lists is to go to an F1 race. And so that's a dream and I'm going to have to execute by following up and make sure it happens. And I know Zach Brown, so I think I ought to be able to pull this off.

[Kula]

I love it. Well, David, thank you so much for another fantastic edition of three more questions. And thank you for listening to How Leaders Lead. We're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And if you carve out a little time with us each and every week, we'll help you build the confidence you need to lead. Well, yeah.

[David Novak]

And speaking of managing your energy, our mission of making the world a better place by developing better leaders, that's a great example of that focus. And the fact that we're doing this podcast and all the other podcasts we do is a great example of following up to make sure that we do that every week and deliver on that promise. But anyway, coming up next on Hal Leaders Lead is my interview with Paul Brown, co founder and CEO of Inspire Brands, which is the parent company of Arby's, Buffalo Wild Wings, Sonic Jimmy John's, Duncan and Baskin Robinson.