3 More Questions (Sharon Price John) with David Novak and Koula Callahan

Summary

How Leaders Lead with David Novak

Episode: 3 More Questions (Sharon Price John)

Date: July 14, 2025

Host: David Novak
Co-host: Koula Callahan
Focus: Debriefing the leadership insights from David’s full interview with Sharon Price John, CEO of Build-a-Bear

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Episode Overview

In this "Three More Questions" segment, David Novak and Koula Callahan take a deeper look at their recent interview with Sharon Price John. They discuss the remarkable turnaround of Build-a-Bear under her leadership, the power of emotional brand equity, the simplicity and potency of Sharon's SDSSx2 turnaround strategy, and her philosophy on not believing the odds. Listeners are treated to practical leadership lessons that transcend industries and actionable advice for building distinctive brands and motivated teams.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emotional Brand Equity

Timestamp: 01:33 – 04:48

• Definition and Importance:
  Sharon Price John emphasized that Build-a-Bear’s success is rooted in its emotional connection with customers. The magic of the brand goes far beyond a simple teddy bear—it’s about the experiences and memories attached to the product.

  “Brands conjure up an experience. And what you really want to do is understand what that end-to-end experience is for your customers.” – David Novak [01:53]

• Examples from Other Brands:
  David drew from his own experience at Pizza Hut, KFC, and Taco Bell to illustrate how great brands create memorable, emotional moments. The value of a product is often in the feelings and experiences it delivers rather than just its function.

  “You have to understand what brands mean beyond the product. And that means digging into that experience that it provides for the customer, which is an emotion.” – David Novak [02:44]

• Marketing Insight:
  Koula and David note people are willing to pay a premium when a brand makes them feel something.

  “People will pay a premium. They'll pay more for a T shirt that they feel a certain way about…” – Koula Callahan [03:41]

• Memorable Ad Reference:
  David cites an old Volvo ad as an example of emotional advertising that makes people feel smart about their choices.

  “99% of the people who drive Volvos have a college education. The others are just smart.” – David Novak quoting a Volvo ad [04:20]

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2. SDSSx2: The Power of Simplicity in Turnarounds

Timestamp: 04:48 – 06:10

• The Turnaround Formula:
  Sharon’s formula: ‘Stop Doing Stupid Stuff. Start Doing Smart Stuff (SDSS x2)’, which she used to bring Build-a-Bear back to profitability.

  “She said, hey, you really want to get people to stop doing the stupid stuff first and then start doing the smart stuff…get rid of all the baggage, the bad stuff.” – David Novak [05:27]

• Why Sequence Matters:
  David highlights Sharon’s focus on stopping destructive behaviors before adding productive ones. It’s not enough to add best practices if old habits linger.

  “If you keep doing the stupid stuff and start doing the smart stuff, you're still wasting a lot of time.” – David Novak [05:26]

• Leadership Takeaway:
  Creating change means unlearning and clearing space before building anew. Simplified, direct approaches—when deeply executed—are highly effective.

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3. Optimism and Defying the Odds

Timestamp: 06:10 – 08:22

• Sharon’s Attitude on Odds:
  Sharon advises leaders not to be discouraged by negative odds or daunting data, but rather to rely on optimism and conviction.

  “She doesn't really think that you should believe in your odds, even if they're stacked against you.” – Koula Callahan [06:10]

• Data vs. Willpower:
  David reflects that when pursuing big change, leaders will always hear doubt. Positive, can-do optimism is essential for rallying a team, even in the face of long odds.

  “I'd much rather work for an optimistic leader than a pessimistic leader...Leaders have to step up if they really believe it and have conviction around it and say, oh, yes, it can.” – David Novak [06:31]

• Transparency with Teams:
  Good leaders acknowledge challenges without sugarcoating but lead with belief in a new path forward. David stresses the importance of inviting the team to contribute solutions.

  “You say, hey, it's not going to be easy. But guess what? We're going to do it. Because I see a path to how it can happen, and I need you to help me do it, and I need you to show me things that maybe I'm not seeing.” – David Novak [07:29]

• Memorable Analogy:
  David highlights the difference between ‘sunny’ leaders and ‘Eeyores.’

  “Nobody will ever follow an Eeyore. You know, let the Eeyores go work somewhere else…Eeyores will never be great leaders. But people who see the sun shining, the rainbow coming…and the pot at the end of the rainbow, those are the leaders that you want to follow.” – David Novak [07:52]

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4. Build-a-Bear: Innovating Beyond the Obvious

Timestamp: 08:35 – 09:38

• Brand Expansion and Discovery:
  Even David admits he underestimated Build-a-Bear’s range—there’s more than bears, including animal variety and new audience segments (e.g., the "Bear Cave" for adults).

  “I didn't know anything about Build-a-Bear, to be honest with you...she corrected me on that, which I thought was really good.” – David Novak [08:35]

• The American Experience:
  David marvels at the ability to monetize unexpected ideas when they bring unique experiences and joy.

  “It just shows in this country, man, you can make money in all kinds of different ways…But the great thing is people can make money when they provide an experience that's unique…something that brings joy. And that's what Build-a-Bear does.” – David Novak [09:16]

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Notable Quotes

• On Emotional Branding:
  “Brands create emotions, and brands make people feel good about themselves.” — David Novak [04:08]

• On Stopping Stupid Stuff:
  “You really want to get people to stop doing the stupid stuff first and then start doing the smart stuff...” — David Novak [05:27]

• On Leading Against the Odds:
  “Leaders have to step up if they really believe it and they have conviction around it and say, oh, yes, it can.” — David Novak [06:55]

• On Optimism in Leadership:
  “Nobody will ever follow an Eeyore...Eeyores will never be great leaders.” — David Novak [07:52]

• On Brand Surprise:
  “Now I know about it because I went online and I saw that there's KFC bears...” — David Novak [08:56]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Emotional Brand Equity: 01:33 – 04:48
• Simple Turnarounds (SDSSx2): 04:48 – 06:10
• When (Not) to Believe the Odds: 06:10 – 08:22
• The Surprise of Build-a-Bear: 08:35 – 09:38

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Episode Tone & Style

Conversational, energetic, and upbeat—David and Koula’s tone is open, honest, curious, and humorous, especially when sharing their own discoveries and lessons learned.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode distills why Sharon Price John is a standout leader: She makes brand experiences powerful by tapping into emotion, executes turnarounds using simple but disciplined frameworks, and leads with optimism even when the data isn’t in her favor. David and Koula’s discussion offers listeners practical insights on brand-building, change management, and the importance of a leader’s positive mindset.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

And welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead. On this episode of three more questions. David, we are debriefing the conversation you had with Sharon Price. John, who is the CEO of Build a Bear. And I think this is the only company that we've ever talked about whose product requires a hug test before it goes home with the customer.

[A]

Well, this is a great brand. Build a Bear is unbelievable. You can build all kinds of animals. They have everything that they have in this retail store, and then they've taken it digital. And she's been a real visionary. And, you know, the founder had a great idea, and she's helped the founder and the entire organization elevate it and take it to a whole different level. It's a. It's a great conversation.

[B]

It is a great conversation. She's incredible. I mean, the company had reported a $49 million loss right before she took over as CEO, and in her first year as CEO, the company was profitable. So this is a woman who knows how to build real momentum around a.

[A]

Brand, and she knows the secret to it is provide a great customer experience. Build the brand, you know, do things the hard way, not the easy way, and take people with you. And she's an excellent CEO and demonstrated that in the way she talks about how she has had the success she's had.

[B]

I love it. Well, David, I'm excited to get your take on some of the concepts you and Sharon discussed in the episode. So let's get going with today's three questions.

[A]

All right, let's do it. Because it is. Happy Monday.

[B]

Question number one. Sharon talks a lot about the emotional brand equity that Build a Bear has, how it's more than just a teddy bear. Their product becomes intertwined into the heart of their customers. And she says every company needs to have that. David, explain this concept of emotional equity and how leaders can go about defining it for their own brand.

[A]

Brands conjure up an experience, and what you really want to do is understand what that end to end experience is for your customers. When I was the president of Pizza Hut, I mean, Pizza Hut just had all these great memories from the Red Roof. People talked about how they had their first date at the Pizza Hut, or they met their wife at the Pizza Hut, or their kids loved the personal pan pizzas, but they had this experience that transcended just being a pizza. You know, at kfc, people talked about being around the picnics and the families and the family reunion. And it wasn't just a bucket of chicken. It was an experience that people remembered taco Bell. I mean, this is like people talk about, oh, man, when I was in high school and college, I used to go there and pig out on 12 tacos.

[B]

Me.

[A]

They used to be, you know, so the value's amazing. And I couldn't believe how good that was, how I first really got my first taste of anything that was Mexican food, you know, the taco being the lead. But, you know, I think what you have to do is understand what brands mean beyond the product. And that means digging into that experience that it provides for the customer, which is an emotion. And I think, clearly, Build the Bear has done that. I mean, you can walk into the store, you can tailor the bear the way you want it. You can put, you know, your own voice into the bear so it could speak to your kid. You can put your heart into the bear. You know, it just conjures up this great, great experience. And they tapped into it. It's not like, oh, come, let's go, come get a teddy bear. No, no. It's much more than that.

[B]

You can't be in a bad mood when you're getting a teddy bear.

[A]

No. Well, you can't get be in a bad mood when you build your bear.

[B]

Correct. Correct. You know, it's funny. A lot of brands might think about what emotion their product or their company or their service conjures up in their customers. But what we're saying here is that there is real tangible value in assigning that to your brand or to your product. People will pay a premium. They'll pay more for a T shirt that they feel a certain way about, even though another brand that's cheaper might be the same, serve the same function.

[A]

Yeah. And, you know, brands create emotions, and brands make people feel good about themselves. I always love the old Volvo ad that they had. And their positioning line was for people who think, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I remember reading one of the print ads, and it says 99% of the people who drive Volvos have a college education. The others are just smart. And, you know, and I thought that was great because, you know, that creates an emotional experience that you really are a smart buyer if you buy and own a Volvo. And I think really smart leaders, really smart brands, think about life that way.

[B]

Absolutely. Question number two. Sharon, like I mentioned earlier, turned around Build a Bear, and her turnaround strategy is incredibly simple. It's this SDSS times two, and that stands for Stop Doing Stupid Stuff and Then Start Doing Smart Stuff. I love how simple this is, David, But I'm curious from your perspective. I mean, is it really that simple simple to turn around the company?

[A]

Well, I think she's simplified it in the best possible way that works for her. Okay. And I think it makes a lot of sense. The thing that I took out of that statement was that you had to stop doing the stupid stuff first.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Because if you keep doing the stupid stuff and start doing the smart stuff, you're still wasting a lot of time. So she said, hey, you really want to get people to stop doing the stupid stuff first and then start doing the smart stuff because people will keep doing what they've been doing, not because they're bad people. It's just that's what they've been doing and that's what they've been rewarded for, and that's just the way other job has been. So I really thought that was a good insight, you know, let people know we got to get rid of all the baggage, the bad stuff. And when we do that, we're going to have more time to focus on what we should be doing, which is the good stuff. So I like it. I think it's a good, simple way to think about things, and it obviously worked to build a bear.

[B]

Question number three. Sharon said something really interesting in the episode, and it was this. She says she doesn't really think that you should believe in your odds, even if they're stacked against you. David, how do you know when to listen to data versus when to rely on pure willpower when you're trying to get something done? I mean, if the odds are stacked against you, when do you listen to that and when do you just power through?

[A]

Well, she's a real positive person, and her whole thing is, you know, it's fun to climb up a tree, jump off of it, roll down the hill, and yeah, maybe you might get hurt, but I'm going to jump off that tree and it'll be fun along the way and I'll learn something. That's kind of how she thinks about things. And I think that kind of optimism is very good. And that's going to carry you pretty far. I'd much rather work for an optimistic leader than a pessimistic leader. And you have so many times when you're trying to do big things and make big changes. Well, people say, oh, we've never done that before. We can't do that. You know, it's just not going to work, you know, And I think leaders have to step up if they really believe it and they have conviction around it and say, oh, yes, it can. Yeah, I know the odds are against us, but you know what? We're going to do things differently this time. We're not going to do it the old way. We're going to do it a new way, and we're going to win this time. And I think that's how you take people with you. But you got to acknowledge that, hey, what you're trying to do is maybe define the odds. But I think that honesty says to your people, you at least understand that it's not going to be easy. And you say, hey, it's not going to be easy. But guess what? We're going to do it. Because I see a path to how it can happen, and I need you to help me do it, and I need you to show me things that maybe I'm not seeing so that we can get it done. And I think her optimism is really the key thing that I take from that. You know, I always say, nobody will ever follow an Eeyore. You know, let the Eeyores go work somewhere else. Oh, it's going to rain, the sky's falling. You know, world's ending. No, no, no. Eeyores can't run companies. Eeyores will never be great leaders. Okay. But people who see the sun shining, the rainbow coming in the pot of the end of the rainbow, those are the leaders that you want to follow.

[B]

Absolutely, David. Sharon is certainly a leader that sees the positive in every situation and does a great job of taking people with her when the odds aren't in her favor so that they continue to grow year over year. At Build a Bear.

[A]

Yeah. And it's fun to see. It's fun to see. I didn't know anything about build a Bear, to be honest with you. I had never really built a bear. I didn't know you could build. I didn't know you could build more things than. Than bears, that they had different animals. And she. She corrected me on that, which I thought was really good.

[B]

There's also an 18 and over bear cave with adult only.

[A]

But I've learned about it and, you know, I. Now I know about it because I went online and I. And you know, I saw that there's KFC bears and there's, you know, but I thought it was really a great brand and it just shows in this country, man, you can make money in all kinds of different ways.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And people are out there. You never ever thought you needed to build a bear, did you?

[B]

You know, I didn't until build a.

[A]

Bear, but people can make money doing all kinds of things. But the great thing is people can make money when they do provide an experience that's unique and something that you, you would not expect and something that brings joy. And that's what Build a Bear does. And, you know, it's great to see brands like that really make it here in our country and around the world.

[B]

It's so wholesome. I love it. David well, that does it for our edition of three more questions for today. Thank you so much for tuning in to How Leaders Lead. We're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And if you carve out a little time with us each and every week, will help you build the confidence you need to lead well.

[A]

And coming up next on How Leaders Lead is my conversation with Mike Cesario, the founder and CEO of Liquid Death. And let me tell you something. You want to talk about a breakthrough thinker. This guy is a breakthrough thinker and one of the best marketing minds I've ever talked to.