#300: Marty Smith, Reporter, ESPN – Deep listening builds deep trust

Summary

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Podcast Summary: How Leaders Lead with David Novak

Episode #300: Marty Smith, Reporter, ESPN – Deep Listening Builds Deep Trust

Air Date: July 16, 2026
Guest: Marty Smith, Reporter, ESPN
Theme: The power of deep listening, relationships, trust, and human leadership in journalism, sports, and life.

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Episode Overview

In this milestone 300th episode, David Novak hosts acclaimed ESPN reporter Marty Smith for an insightful, heartfelt, and entertaining conversation on leadership, trust, and the craft of deep listening. From career pivots to building relationships with sports legends, Marty shares how openness, preparation, and humility shape great leaders and storytellers. Personal stories—ranging from college football sidelines to emotional encounters with everyday heroes—illustrate why presence, trust, and grace lie at the heart of genuine influence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Passion for Leadership—Formative Years

[02:01]

• Marty credits his passion for leadership to his parents’ work ethic and accountability:
  Marty Smith: “The values that they instilled within me and my sister Stacy, and the self-accountability that we learned from watching my parents work really hard.”
• Coaches played a critical role in shaping his sense of responsibility and teamwork.
• At ESPN, Marty studied legendary coaches as CEOs who embody pillars like communication, self-evaluation, and crisis management.

Crisis Management & Career Pivot

[05:19]

• After ESPN lost NASCAR broadcast rights in 2014, Marty faced career uncertainty but decided to “bet on himself.”
• Received a pivotal email from Lee Fitting (producer, College GameDay):

  “Marty, your passion belongs in college football. Start studying right now.”

• Marty’s openness led to being embedded with the eventual national champions—Ohio State.
• Lesson: Accepting insecurity can bring about great personal and career growth.

  “I saw that email as a treasure map... we’d find riches beyond our wildest dreams. And I ain’t talking about money, I’m talking about life experience.” [07:10]

Building Trust to Land Exclusive Interviews (Lane Kiffin Story)

[09:43]

• Marty shares how he landed the high-stakes Lane Kiffin interview amid coaching rumors:
  • Trust takes “time spent developing a relationship.”
  • It’s about “showing up when you don’t need anything,” being intuitive, and—above all—listening.
• Marty recalls his wild journey driving past law enforcement to catch Kiffin before his departure to LSU, highlighting the power of persistence and relationship-building.

  “Time spent developing a relationship built on trust, that you’re going to be a great steward of truth.” [16:02]

Trust: The Foundation of All Leadership

[16:02]

• Trust is the “center point” of any leader’s credibility.
• Interviewing 20 champion coaches for his book Sideline CEO, every single one pointed to trust as the starting point.

Knowing When to Move On

[17:48]

• Marty discusses Lane Kiffin’s decision to leave Ole Miss for LSU:
  • The opportunity to build a championship-caliber program—and “the why” behind decisions—drives leadership moves.

  “Every individual is a product of context and repetition.”

  • The “why” behind decisions matters as much as the “what.”

Relationship Building vs. “Just Networking”

[24:38]

• Biggest misconception: People assume they know others, but don’t often take the time to know who someone is, not just what they are.

  “Listening is a superpower... true presence is having a closed mouth and open ears.” [25:00]

Listening: The Difference-Maker

[26:27]

• Early in his career, Marty realized he was “prying” not listening—after Dale Earnhardt Jr. confronted him.

  “You need to shut up... there was a lot of things that [Jeff] was getting ready to expound upon and you cut him off and it was rude and you know it. Don’t do that.” [29:10]

• Lesson: The follow-up question, often simply asking “why?”, yields the most profound insight.

Balancing Trust and Accountability

[21:17]

• Reporting uncomfortable truths to friends (e.g., Jimmie Johnson’s golf cart accident) strained relationships but demonstrated the importance of fairness and accuracy.

  “If you’re accurate and you’re fair, those are the two great pillars of journalism... ultimately, they can’t be mad at you forever.” [23:48]

Excellence: Preparedness + Passion

[38:36]

• Insightful quote:

  “Excellence lives at the intersection of preparedness and passion.” [38:36]

• Preparation reduces anxiety and allows full presence in the moment, especially during interviews.

Learning from Leaders: Saban, Tiger, and Beyond

• Nick Saban's emphasis on self-accountability and psychological nuance influenced Marty’s approach to preparation:

  “He gave you what you give... if you show up and it doesn’t have a lot of depth... he’s going to give you surfacy answers.” [35:21]

• Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant, MJ: All demonstrate an “insatiable drive to beat you, not just to win.” [47:16]

  “I just want to beat you... I didn’t say I wanted to win. I said I wanted to beat you.” —Tiger Woods (paraphrased), [47:43]

The Role of Self-Evaluation & Avoiding Complacency

[44:03]

• Marty keeps Coach Saban’s quote close:

  “When you’re climbing a mountain, you look up, you never look back. Complacency is something that everyone who’s had any level of success must challenge themselves to overcome... because the why creates the passion for the what and the passion creates the ability to sustain it.” [45:04]

• Ongoing self-evaluation and feedback are crucial for continued growth (with references to mentors and colleagues at ESPN and stories from “Sideline CEO”).

Delegation: The Key to Sustainable Excellence

[51:35]

• Kirby Smart’s leadership shift: learning to delegate and empower others rather than micromanage.

  “If you are micromanaging, that’s your ego; if you delegate, it’s self-confidence. They are not the same thing.” [52:23]

Humanity vs. AI

[53:34]

• Marty sees both value and risk in AI, especially as someone whose livelihood has been built on creative, intellectual property.

  “Now somebody can go on the computer and they can create it in 10 minutes. That’s hard for me to reconcile.” [54:10]

• Emotional presence, vulnerability, and creativity are still most deeply felt when human-made.

Story of Impact: Olivia Quigley

[64:07 - 71:09]

• Shared the moving story of Special Olympian Olivia Quigley, who won two gold medals while battling stage four cancer and left her medal to Marty.
• The power of listening, kindness, and human connection—“the power of kindness and time”—as the ultimate leadership legacy.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Listening is a superpower... true presence is having a closed mouth and open ears.”
  —Marty Smith, [25:00]

• “Excellence lives at the intersection of preparedness and passion.”
  —Marty Smith, [38:36]

• “If you are micromanaging, that’s your ego; if you delegate, it’s self-confidence.”
  —Marty Smith reflecting on Kirby Smart, [52:23]

• “When you’re climbing a mountain, you look up, you never look back. Complacency is something that everyone who’s had any level of success must challenge themselves to overcome.”
  —Nick Saban, quoted by Marty Smith, [45:04]

• “What did I take away? ... when you're prepared, you can be present.”
  —David Novak, [84:06]

• On Dale Earnhardt Jr.’s advice:

  “He goes, hey, you need to shut up... It was rude and you know it. Don’t do that. You look foolish.” —Dale Earnhardt Jr., as told by Marty Smith, [29:12]

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [02:01]: Marty's leadership foundation: parents, coaches, accountability
• [05:19]: ESPN’s NASCAR loss; career pivot and opportunity
• [09:43]: The Lane Kiffin interview—trust and relationship-building
• [16:02]: Pillar of leadership—trust
• [24:38]: Misconceptions about relationship building; listening as a superpower
• [26:27]: Dale Earnhardt Jr. teaches the cost of not listening
• [38:36]: Preparation, passion, and presence intersect
• [44:03]: Overcoming complacency; lessons from Saban
• [51:35]: Delegation vs. micromanagement (Kirby Smart)
• [53:34]: Humanity and creativity vs. AI
• [64:07]: The story and legacy of Olivia Quigley

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Lightning Round Highlights

• Three words that describe Marty: Passionate, loyal, kind [60:12]
• Biggest pet peeve: Bathrooms without paper towels [60:34]
• Favorite Celine Dion song: “My Heart Will Go On” (and the story behind singing it with Celine) [61:20]
• Mount Rushmore of interviews: Nick Saban, Tiger Woods, Dale Earnhardt Jr., and Olivia Quigley [63:48]
• One thing he does for himself: Golf [63:19]
• Ritual he never misses: Daily prayer and journaling [63:43]

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Closing Leadership Advice

[73:33]

• Know your process and inject a culture felt even in your absence.
• Culture is what happens “when we turn our backs.”
• Learn crisis management—be the lighthouse in the storm.
• Most vital: “When you call a meeting, listen. Try to learn from your people, too.”

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Episode Takeaways

• Trust is the foundation: Relationships built over time, not just when you “need something,” create the most impact.
• Listening is transformative: It’s the gateway to trust, truth, and vulnerability.
• Preparation unlocks presence: Excellence arises when passion is paired with meticulous preparation.
• Leaders evolve: Through self-evaluation, feedback, and avoidance of complacency.
• Humanity distinguishes us: Creativity, kindness, and emotional presence matter more as AI expands.
• Culture is lived, not announced: The truest measure of culture and leadership happens in your absence.

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Fans of leadership, sports, journalism, and humanity will find rich, actionable insights and heartfelt moments in this conversation. Marty Smith’s stories—supported by honesty, humility, and humor—offer a playbook for leading with trust and listening deeply in any arena.

Transcript

[Podcast Host 1]

Hello, friends, and welcome to the 300th episode of How Leaders Lead with David Novak. Today we have one of ESPN's most recognizable faces on the show, it's Marty Smith. And in his years covering college football, golf, and nascar, he's earned the trust of some of the sports world's biggest names. And he does it because he listens well. If you're a leader, you know how important the skill of listening is. It's the foundation for every strong relationship in your world. But in the daily hustle, it can be hard to slow down and. And truly be present in every meeting and in every conversation. Today's episode with Marty will inspire you to listen well, and I know you're gonna love it. Enjoy this conversation, and I will see you at the debrief.

[David Novak]

Marty, we've been trying to do this for a long time. I'm glad we finally get to get it done.

[Marty Smith]

I'm gonna guess, my friend, it's been more than two years in the making and a whole lot of chops busting between you and me, because we are definitely on a lot of airplanes flying around to various obligations and events, and I think we've had this on the books for a long time. I'm so grateful to finally get this, to spend this time with you and your viewership and your listenership, because I've learned so much from your platform. I've learned so much from this show and the incredible leaders that you've had on it. It's a who's who in business, in sports and music and beyond. And so I'm thankful and humbled just to get to spend the time with you, my friend.

[David Novak]

Well, you know, Marty, you're obviously a leader in your field, but one of the real reasons why, one of the major reasons why we wanted to have you on this show is that you're so passionate about leadership. You know, we met at the Kentucky Derby and we started talking about it, and we. That's when I said, hey, I got to get you on the show, you know, why are you so passionate about leadership?

[Marty Smith]

A lot of reasons. I think the first is how formative it was in my own journey. I had great leaders starting in the home with my parents and the. The values that they instilled within me and my sister Stacy, and the self accountability that we learned from watching my parents work really hard. And then when I became an athlete as a child and then all the way into school, my coaches were imperative in my development as a person. And that self accountability that I preach all the time to my own children now and in speaking engagements all over the country all the time. And then you fast forward to my journey at ESPN, David. This is my 21st year at the company. I got a lot of gray hair, my friend. It's running away from me. But I've had such an incredible blessing to be around some of the greatest leaders in the world. Because if you look at these major college coaches, professional coaches, they really are CEOs, and they really do have to learn all of these pillars of leadership and instill all of these pillars of leadership within their various programs in order to exceed at the highest level and succeed at the highest level. Whether that's trust or communication and listening or crisis management or self evaluation, evolution as a person, delegation, all of the things that you have done so well for so long in all of your career journey. So when I really dove into the nuance of leadership, I just became voracious about learning and instilling more and more and more of that into my own daily walk. And so I'm crazy about it.

[David Novak]

I mean, truly, I could tell you were so passionate. I said, hey, man, I got to get this guy on, because you're going to have so many insights in you. But before we get into this, I'm looking at you right now and I'm looking at this background, and I'm seeing the first guy that's ever been on this show doing it in a laundry

[Marty Smith]

room in front of a washing machine. What the hell's going on?

[David Novak]

Yeah, you got a washing machine back there, don't you, Dryer? You know what the hell's going on?

[Marty Smith]

I am in Ocean City, New Jersey. My wife's hometown, Laney's hometown, and we own a beach house here with my brother in law, her brother, and we bought it, I don't know, 10 or 12 years ago. And it's an older home and he owns the top and I own the bottom. And as you and I were desperately trying to figure out how to get me here on this video call so that we could do this interview, the Internet was not agreeing. And so I came upstairs to my brother in law's office, which, as you can see before we came on, his underwear was hanging up there behind us. So at least we've made it something that's as aesthetically acceptable for all of the folks watching. But, yeah, that's why I'm sitting in front of a washer and dryer.

[David Novak]

And you know, that's a classic example of a leader scrambling to make something happen.

[Marty Smith]

When you look back Crisis management.

[David Novak]

Yeah. When you look back on. On your career, you know, when did you have to scramble the most to really make something happen that that was critical to your own success?

[Marty Smith]

I've had so many people believe in me throughout this journey, and when people have given me opportunity, I'm somebody that if you crack a door for me, I'm going to kick it down. That is not without fear, but as close to fearless as I can personally be. But I'll tell you where I had a tremendous moment of insecurity. That with that came great clarity. And that's when we lost NASCAR at ESPN. For the first 15 years of my professional life, I covered auto racing specifically. And when ESPN lost the broadcast rights to NASCAR at the end of the 2014 NASCAR Cup Series season, I didn't know what I was going to do, and I resigned at ESPN. A brand new contract starting on January 1, 2015. So I come home from that final race in November of 2014 without much understanding what might be next. And I was willing to bet on myself, David. I didn't care if it was cornhole tournaments or that chainsaw race they do out in Idaho. I was going to be so damn passionate about it that you have to pay attention to me. Well, I get home from that final race in 2014, and Laney and I had eight, five and two at home. And she'd been a single mom for five months. When you're chasing race cars, brother, you're gone. And so I sat down on my couch and I opened up my phone, and there was an email from a gentleman named Lee, fitting at the time, Lee was the executive producer of College Game Day. And he said, marty, your passion belongs in college football. Start studying right now. I'm going to embed you with one of the four teams that qualify for the inaugural College Football Playoff. And as a guy that grew up going to Virginia Tech games on Saturdays with my dad, it's my favorite sport. I mean, I couldn't believe what I was reading. I knew I was going to do it. It was a difficult conversation with Laney to try to help her understand the gravity of this opportunity, the magnitude of this opportunity. But when you've been a single mom for five months, all you want is a break. But she was kind enough and selfless enough to let me chase this dream. Because I told her, David, I saw that email as a treasure map. I knew if I was willing to follow its direction and dig deep enough within myself, we'd find riches beyond our wildest dreams. And I ain't talking about money, I'm talking about life experience. And God's good. Laney was selfless enough to let me go grind. I was embedded with Ohio State and they went on to win the national championship that year. I look back on that now and I think about the overwhelming, overwhelming insecurity that I had because I'm this sports centric, stock car racing, southern boy who is with the largest brand in college football. And everyone knows when you're a fraud, if you try to dive into the nuance of a team and you misspeak or you misreport, they're going to consider you a fraud. And so I studied until my eyeballs were crossed. And I went in there with an open mind. And Urban Meyer was the head coach and he was. There's a lot of funny stories. We don't need to go down a bunch of rabbit holes. But ultimately they won the national championship there that year, and I was with them for that entire time. And that was now 12 years ago.

[David Novak]

And you, you built incredible relationships and you are embedded in college football now, without a doubt. And you know, one of the wildest stories that I've heard in a long time was you getting the exclusive interview with Lane Kiffin.

[Marty Smith]

You've just left your last meeting with the Ole Miss Rebels and you're getting ready to get on an airplane to Baton Rouge, Louisiana. What is going through your mind right now? Well, first I just watched you do

[David Novak]

something unbelievable and go off road around the fire trucks to get here. So amazing job by you. Tell us that story of how you, you got that interview. Because you know, everybody, every journalist in the world wanted that interview and. But you got it. How'd you pull that off?

[Marty Smith]

To your point, it goes back to relationships. I consider myself, I'm in the truth business. Right. And in order to be in a position that you sit across from people of a claim and you're asking them to share their truth. So it's imperative that you're a great steward of that truth every time. And so I met Lane when he was on Nick Saban's staff at Alabama and he was the offensive coordinator.

[David Novak]

How many years ago was that?

[Marty Smith]

2015ish. Somewhere around in there started to build a relationship. And that is. Relationships come with time. It's not always just showing up when you need something. It's showing up when you don't need anything and taking the time to try to learn the person and learn that person's path and journey and passion, triumphs and failures, not just professionally, but as a Man, and be intuitive about it and have a closed mouth and open ears and ultimately. So Lane first went to Florida Atlantic and then he gets the ole Ms. Job six, seven years ago, and he built a national championship caliber team. So when he was being courted last season, not just by lsu but also by Florida, it was the biggest story in the sport for a while because Lane's a wild card, man. You never know what's really going on up here for him. And I was commissioned by ESPN to go down to the Egg bowl, which is Mississippi State vs Ole Miss, a great hundred year rivalry, and try to get the answers from Lane. Are you going to stay? Are you going to go to lsu? What are we doing here? And speaking of being embedded, I was there throughout the entire Thanksgiving weekend, the whole holiday, and he was struggling to make the decision of whether he should stay or go because he had built a national championship caliber team. And this is a fan base. Look, look, David, here's your numbers. You're a numbers guy. Last season was the first 11 win regular season in 132 years of ole Miss Rebel football. So this is the greatest era in the history of that program that he's built. So why the hell would you leave? And above the on field success, he'd found peace in his soul. Lane was always this wayward sort of wanderer trying to find himself, and it felt like he'd found himself in Oxford, Mississippi. He found sobriety, and with sobriety came incredible emotional mental clarity. And he'd become the best coach that he'd ever been. So why leave? Well, he had conversations with Nick Saban and with Pete Carroll, two tremendous mentors of his, and they played the plus minus game. And ultimately he decided that he was going to go to Baton Rouge, Louisiana to coach the LSU Tigers. And the damn world started to burn. I mean, I went down there for the sole purpose of getting that interview that I got with him when ultimately the decision was announced. This was a Sunday morning, the Sunday after Thanksgiving in 2025. I'm standing in front of their football facility and they'd had a team meeting and players come out and look right at me and say, marty, it's the Pete Golding era. And I went, oh, Lord. Okay, Lane's going. Lane Lanes for sure. Going to lsu. And fast forward a couple hours. David. I'm standing at the entrance of the Oxford, Mississippi airport, the FBO there. And there are a thousand Ole Miss fans there who are only there to tell Lane to go to hell and worse. And I'm all Over. I'm calling him. I'm blowing him up. Dude, where are you? I have to get this interview. I got to find you. I'll come anywhere to get it. And he said, be at the airport at 3:00'.

[Podcast Host 1]

Clock.

[Marty Smith]

Well, I told him I'm standing at the front of the airport right now, so we can't miss you. Well, what I didn't know is there's this clandestine entrance down the highway about a mile and we ultimately get over there. It's a whole story. I was in a massive 16 person people mover van going far too fast. And I took a left at this fire station and there was a blockade there. I mean, all kinds of law enforcement vehicles and fire trucks blocking the path up to the tarmac. And I bombed that van off into that field. And I'm dodging snow plows and bush hogs and God knows what else. And I got crew guys flying all over the van. And I get up to the top of the hill, and Lane was kind enough to wait on me to do that interview. And so there. There is nowhere I go now. I spent the last four days attending a country music festival. Saw our boy Eric Church last night, by the way.

[David Novak]

Oh, awesome.

[Marty Smith]

And everywhere I go, people mention that Lane Kiffin interview. Everywhere I go.

[David Novak]

Well, what is it? What's the leadership lesson in that story that. That most people might miss? I mean, you know, why did he say yes to you? And what is it about you that got that interview?

[Marty Smith]

I don't know that I could answer that properly. You know, Lane. Lane certainly could. But I do know that it goes back to what you're. What we were discussing a moment ago. And that is the immeasurable indelible power of time spent developing a relationship built on trust, that you're going to be a great steward of truth. And that's applicable no matter what business you're in. Doesn't matter the business you're in. That's where everything else comes from. Trust is the center point of any leadership role. And when I wrote Sideline CEO, that was one of the pillars of the book. And I asked every single one of the 20 championship coaches I interviewed for that book, and invariably every one of them said it all starts with trust.

[David Novak]

Yeah, that's so true. It's such an important element in any kind of leadership. But you mentioned something about Lane Kiffin that I thought was very interesting. Here is this guy who went to Mississippi, built the program back up, got it to its incredible height, and he'd found peace within his soul. When, as a leader, should you make that move, particularly when you've got that kind of piece, what trigger should go off, you know, that would say, hey, I need to go to lsu. I mean, what would make you make a move like that?

[Marty Smith]

Speaking for Lane, I think every single individual is a product of context and repetition. And in the context of his decision, he simply felt like the ability to accrue. Now, this is him, not me. All right? The ability to accrue talent and have a greater opportunity to win a national championship at LSU versus Ole Miss was his North Star on this decision. And I can tell you that I've spoken with Coach Saban about this before. Coach Saban will tell you that if he never left LSU, he would probably have 10 national championships. Because at LSU, every young man that grows up in greater New Orleans, and that is the most talent, if it's not the most talent rich area in the country, it's certainly very high up in that number in that list. You walk out the front door at LSU and trip over five stars. And so Lane felt like his greatest opportunity to have a sustainable national championship caliber team and program was in Baton Rouge versus Oxford. And isn't it ironic that, as I said a moment ago, he's built the greatest era in the history of Ole Miss football, but he just felt like he had a better chance at lsu. That was his. That was his why?

[David Novak]

And you, you. You got the interview with him because of the relationship you built with them and the trust that you have. And when was it when that light bulb went off in your head that you said, you know, the way I'm going to distinguish myself in my career is I'm going to do it through trust. I'm going to do it through relationships

[Marty Smith]

for so many years. And still, to a degree, being in the news breaking business is such a fine line to walk, because you do spend all of this time building these folks trust so that they'll give you information in moments when you need that information to do the reporting that you're required to do or tasked with doing. I just made a decision a long time ago that I was going to build those relationships in a genuine fashion because I do care about the people I'm covering, and it's a lot easier. And I'll tell you, that goes against my schooling. Every journalism class that I ever took, they told me, don't get too close to the people you cover. Don't build personal relationships with the people you cover. And for me, I just never took that tact. It was Just never my way to do it. And everybody has their own philosophies and their own ways of doing them. But for me, this way has worked very well for me.

[David Novak]

Well, how do you balance the building the relationships versus having the emotional distance it takes to really. To drive accountability? I mean, can you make a tough statement when you have the relationship with somebody?

[Marty Smith]

You've known me a long time. I mean, I feel. I feel like you've probably seen me make some tough statements. And there will be. There will be moments where people with whom you've built those relationships are uber pissed off at you because you reported something or because you had an informed opinion about something. And I use the word informed opinion because I get paid to report. I don't get paid to opine. But I'm put in positions often where folks want my opinion. Every one of those opinions comes from being informed by the sources that are actually entrenched in the moment. And I take a lot of onus there personally. That's just my way. But I'll tell you a story. When it was very hard. One of my best friends in the world is a guy named Jimmie Johnson. And Jimmy won seven NASCAR championships. He's one of the greatest of all time in that sport. And right after he won his first championship at the highest level of the sport in 2006, he was playing golf with his buddies, acting like a jackass, had a couple too many cocktails, jumped up on top of a golf cart and was surfing on top of the golf cart, fell off, broke his wrist. Well, I found out about it, and again, this is one of my best friends, even today. And I found out about it. He confirmed that he'd broken his wrist. And I'm like, dude, I gotta report this. Now, David, for context, I'd been at ESPN for about 25 minutes at this time, so I'm still learning what that, you know, what those lines are at least at espn. And I'm like, I have to report this, man. He's like, no, you can't. I'm like, I have to. If I don't, somebody else is going to. So I did. I go report it. And he was so pissed off at me that our relationship was fractured for a while. But ultimately, what ends up happening, if you're accurate and you're fair, those are the two great pillars of journalism, is fairness and accuracy. If you're right, ultimately, they can't be mad at you forever. You were right. And he ultimately came all the way back around and called me and said, hey, man, let's go get a beer, let's go get lunch, let's talk through it. And that was what he said. You were right, I was wrong. I shouldn't have reacted that way out of frustration. Because he was worried that him being a human being and having a good time with his buddies during the off season, by the way, would be frowned upon by sponsors, his ownership, etc. And that was a real deep learning experience for him and for me.

[David Novak]

The power of relationships is critical in leadership, no matter what field you're in. What do you think is the biggest misconception people have about relationship building?

[Marty Smith]

The biggest misconception would probably be a lot, and this is probably universal throughout professional life, regardless of the industry. You think you know somebody, but are you taking the time as a leader to really know somebody? Because we're all going through something. People react the way they react, not just based on the stresses of a job, but the stresses of all the inputs in their life. And I think that a major piece of that building a real relationship is of course time, as I said. But also listening is a superpower. There's so much talking today, there's so much talking in this social media world. And if you're someone who can sit with someone and be truly present and true presence is having a closed mouth and open ears and listening to what someone is saying and then following up on what they're saying to try to reach the next layer or the next level of vulnerability and then you're really breaking down who this person is, not what this person is. Those are very different things. And the greatest leaders do that.

[David Novak]

Yeah. And you know, building these relationships, Marty, they take time, you know, and, you know, can you tell us about a relationship you invested years in, you know, before it really produced a meaningful opportunity?

[Marty Smith]

A meaningful opportunity. I try hard to invest in anybody that I have any appreciable time with to that degree. I'm a pretty curious person and I love to learn the who, the how, not just I know the what, I know what you are. I like learning who. And that's been one reason that the interviews that I've done for college game day or know the Masters, whatever it is. That's why I feel like I'm able to get some pretty good insight from these individuals because I'm asking them an open ended question, not a yes or no question, it's an open ended question that allows them to share their truth. And if you're listening, you, you genuinely open up a line of vulnerability with someone else and they're almost invariably going to share something that they don't share, typically in their daily walk. I would say going back to your question, a real breakthrough for me. And this plays right into the listening piece. I'm very close with Dale Earnhardt Jr. Excited to be working with him starting next Sunday. I haven't done NASCAR in a long time, but I'm kind of dipping my toe back in the pool over there. When I first got the opportunities at ESPN to do real, in depth, sit down interviews with athletes, I wanted so desperately, through my own insecurity driven ego, to show the world what I knew. That wasn't my job. My job was to be a conduit to what they know. And I was interviewing Jeff Gordon and Jeff was sharing some aspect of his career. And in the middle of that interview, I kept interrupting him in the effort to kind of steer the interview back where I wanted it to go, not where it was going organically. I wasn't really listening. I was prying. The interview ended and I felt like it went pretty well. And a couple weeks later it aired on one of the pre race shows on espn. And I'm getting all these pats on the back from colleagues and social media. I'm affirming myself through social media and feeling my ego through that affirmation. Well, after that race, when that piece aired, my job after that race was to go interview Dale Earnhardt Jr. And he had gotten in an accident, I think, and the race ends and There are probably 30 reporters out there waiting for Dale to come talk to us. And he got out of his race car and he's kind of looking around at the damage on his car and he turns and he looks, he stares a hole right through the back of my head. And he goes, mayor, I'm kind of looking at me. He goes, come here. So I walk over to him and he turns his back to the assemblage and lays into me. He goes, hey, you need to shut up. You need to shut your mouth. And I was ready to bust him in the jaw. I'm like, what? What are you talking about? He goes, I was watching that interview you did with Jeff and there was a lot of things that he was getting ready to expound upon and you cut him off and it was rude and you know it. Don't do that. You look foolish. And again, I was so mad, but I was only mad because I knew he was right. And that moment changed my entire career. It did. That moment was a flashpoint moment for me because it completely shifted the way that I interview people and the work has gotten exponentially better as a result of being a good listener. I'm forever indebted to him.

[David Novak]

How do you know when the difference between listening versus prying? That's very interesting.

[Marty Smith]

I think that prying is if someone is trying to share something, whether that's a failure at work, whether that's you're trying to scale a business and someone has an idea and you're, you know, you're cutting off that idea, Think how that feels to the individual that's trying to share some sort of insight and you chop it off rather than let them finish their thought, process that thought and follow up on that thought, either with a suggestion. Well, okay, what if we took this route? Or in my case, the follow up question always results in the greatest answer. Every time. All the time, all the time. And often the follow up question is nothing but why? Why did you do that?

[Podcast Host 1]

When?

[Marty Smith]

How did that happen? That simple, invariably produces the best insight and perspective.

[Podcast Host 1]

Hello, everyone. I hope you're loving the 300th episode of how Leaders Lead with David Novak. If you're loving this podcast and you're a loyal How Leaders Lead listener, I'd love it if you would subscribe to our YouTube channel. It's really easy. It just takes one second. Right now, you can take your little mouse and click. Subscribe. That way you won't ever miss out on our great content. Subscribe to the channel and enjoy the rest of the show.

[David Novak]

You know, and building relationships we talked about earlier, it takes time. You gotta, you gotta invest in it. But you have a natural charisma about you. I mean, there's no doubt about it. People know when you're in the room and, you know, they always say the first impression is often the most important impression. You know, when you meet somebody for the first time, what's something that you do that most people might not do?

[Marty Smith]

The very first thing that I do is shake their hand and look them in the eye like my daddy taught me when I was four years old. I also, I guess I don't dive directly into their professional. The what? I don't dive directly into the what. Like if I'm meeting a country music artist for the first time, the easy thing to do is say something about a show or say something about a song. And they hear that every single day, all day, every day, grocery store, gas station, every meet and greet. So if you can find that little nugget or that connection point between you as people, then you're more memorable and there's also an understanding from that person that you've taken that effort and made that effort to reach them on a different level playing and that matters. I mean it really matters. I've been very blessed to, to do that a lot. I mean Saban was a tough one man. Saban was say he doesn't just trust people. He doesn't just sit down across from anybody and offer these unbelievably golden nuggets of wisdom that he just carries around on his person and in his soul every day. I've learned more from that man. He's probably had a greater influence on my life than 99% of the people I've ever met. And it's because he rewrote my understanding of self accountability and demanding best of self every day and not hedging in that demand and that's not easy all the time for anyone.

[David Novak]

What's your before and after? I mean you say he, he helped you get to self Academy. Describe, you know, Marty Smith before the Marty Smith after meeting a Nick Saban

[Marty Smith]

I thought I knew how to prepare. But Coach Saban was one of those people. There's been a few athletes or, or leaders in my career that I've been tasked with gleaning that insight and I thought I knew how to prepare. But Coach Saban was always one of those people that gave you what you give. In other words, if you show up and it's surface level and it doesn't have a lot of depth emotionally or technically or schematically in the football context, he's going to give you surfacy answers. But if you show up to play and you're asking him questions that are nuanced, that do have depth psychologically even, he's a. He's fascinated with psychology and how to reach these young men where they are. He's the greatest to ever do it and he was always able to take the greatest player that ever came from whatever town. They've been told they were the greatest player in the history of the game since they were 12 years old. And he's able to break down all of those individuals into an incredible unit. He's a great, I mean just standing in practice or being in a meeting and watching him do that was a fascinating masterclass education that I received and continue to now that he's a colleague.

[David Novak]

You often talk about preparing extensively and then I love this throwing it away, you know. You know, walk me through that process.

[Marty Smith]

It demands that I'm listening. It goes back to that piece of this because I will if I'm doing a sit down interview with David Novak. I'm going to study you. I'm going to study, I'm going to read, I'm going to watch, I'm going to consume and I'm going to have a free flowing list of questions. Everything that enters my mind, I'm creating a question list. And then I will take that question list and I will pare it down to about 8 or 10, depending on the time window I'm given with the individual, with the subject. And I will study those eight to 10 questions over and over and over and commit them to some semblance of memory, not verbatim, but some semblance of memory. And then I throw the notes away because it goes back to if I'm interviewing you and I ask you a question and you start to share with me the depth of the subject matter and as soon as you start talking, I'm looking down at my knee at that question list, do you think that you're going to feel like I'm listening to you? No. So I will. That way I can ask the question and I can completely be present with the individual.

[David Novak]

So you think the over preparation really helps you be present?

[Marty Smith]

100%. I think excellence lives at the intersection of preparedness and passion. I think that preparation, think about it, people. If we have anxiety about something and all of us in some context have some anxious energy about something, if you prepare to the absolute optimum maximum output of your ability, then if you have anxiety, it's certainly far less than it would be if you feel unprepared. And that took me a long time to, I still haven't mastered it, but I'm getting closer every day. I mean, again, I'm going back to NASCAR starting this weekend. I haven't been full time in that garage since 2014 and I'm hosting a show the next five weeks. And I've spent my entire last week, I mean, just completely immersed in learning and making sure that I'm prepared so that I'm never surprised.

[David Novak]

You know, Marty, I'm, I feel like I'm learning a lot in this, this podcast, this conversation with you about interviewing. You're such a, you know, a good journalist and you know how to build relationships. You know, who do you go to, to learn from now? I mean, you know, is there, are there people in the industry that you go to that, that, that are, that are teaching you a lot these days?

[Marty Smith]

I have a Boss named Mike McQuaid at ESPN who is an absolute savant. He's A brilliant mind. And if I'm preparing for something, I always run my question thoughts through him in terms of the craft of how to prepare or execute a good interview. My former colleague Tom Rinaldi, who's now at Fox, who's just the greatest, most brilliant storyteller. I watched a lot of Tom Rinaldi interviews to watch how he crafted questions, how he followed up on questions. Incredible listener, incredible writer. The way he crafts a feature to make you feel that emotion that you're trying to convey through a story or that insight you're trying to project. So I would say those two are certainly really important. But these days, man, the stories that we're telling are so rich that I'm just trying to do my best to be a good conduit of that story. Because these young men and women playing sports now are so smart. And a lot of them have had strife they've had to overcome. They've had to rewrite what they believed was going to be their path because there is nothing, nothing seems terribly linear. And so, yeah, man, it's an evolution every day. But I am grateful that I do have those voices who I can lean on and go to and say, what do you think about this? What did I do well, give me constructive feedback. Because again, going back to leadership, if you're not willing to self evaluate, then you can't evolve. If you're not willing to look at how you executed a task, what you did well, what you didn't do well, so that you can adjust and evolve, then your ego's in the way. I interviewed Patty Gaso. I'm not sure if you're familiar with, with Coach Gaso. She's won eight national championships with the University of Oklahoma women's softball team and she was in sideline CEO and that's what she said. If you're not willing to self evaluate and evolve, then your ego's in the way because that's, that's everything. The context of what worked last year may not be what's going to work this year. Your failures last year as a leader, you have to be willing to look in the mirror and admit it. Because the window through which the world sees us all can't be hidden in the mirror. You might be able to make your way through a leadership moment, but when you get home and you're brushing your teeth, you probably know whether or not you executed it to the fullest or not.

[David Novak]

Yeah. You know, self awareness is so key. And you know, one of the exercises I always talk about is I call it my three by five exercise where you write down on one side of the card, you know, what am I today? And on the other side is how can I be more effective tomorrow? You know, when you look at where you're at in your career, you know, how are you trying to sharpen your ax now? I mean, what are you working on to make yourself an even better leader?

[Marty Smith]

Complacency is the greatest threat to excellence, to quote Nick Saban. And when you've become entrenched in a, in a job, you become entrenched in a task and you're starting to really grow well into how to execute those tasks, you can coast. Just a fact. A lot of people who are accomplished individuals will get to a place where they're comfortable. And I don't want to be comfortable. I want to be challenged every single day. And that's one reason that the diversity in my career is so wonderful for me is when you're going from college football straight to golf straight to horse racing straight to NASCAR straight. Like there's a lot of insecurity that can come with that because you're only there because they expect that you'll succeed and they expect that you'll be a beneficiary or you'll be beneficial. Excuse me, to the broader product. I just don't want to be in a position where I feel comfortable. And I love this quote. I'm going to read it to you, David, you're going to love this quote. I carry it on my person every single day, hearing my phone as a tangible reminder of how powerful that self accountability is every single day. All right, I've sat down with Nick Saban one time. Can you tell he's had an impact on my life? I sat down with Coach Saban one time and he said this quote. All right? When you're climbing a mountain, you look up, you never look back. Complacency is something that everyone who's had any level of success must challenge themselves to overcome. But it's not just the willingness to do it, it's the why you're willing to do it because the why creates the passion for the what and the passion creates the ability to sustain it.

[David Novak]

That is fantastic.

[Marty Smith]

I mean, it's the greatest quote. I mean, I was like, wait, what? Say that again. It was just, I thought it was incredible. And I mean, he said a million things to me that resonated so deeply. That's certainly one of them. But another one that's much simpler is mediocre. People don't like high Achievers and high achievers don't like mediocre people. And if you think about that, it sounds very simple, but, man, is it profound.

[David Novak]

That is. That is totally profound, and that's amazing. I've always wanted to do a podcast with him. I got to get him on my show someday because he.

[Marty Smith]

Your mind will be blown. It's a masterclass every day.

[David Novak]

It really is. You know. You know, and you've been around such great leaders. I mean, and. Or let's say great athletes that were leaders in their field. And what's the. What's the biggest learning you got by, you know, learning? Being around Tiger woods, for example, I

[Marty Smith]

remember the first time I sat across from him, it was in 2018. And I was. You know that list we were talking about earlier? I'm going through that list, going through that list, going through that list. I want to ask him questions that demand he thinks that it's not just the same thing. And he's a genuinely private guy. He's hard to get to. And so I wanted to maximize the opportunity. I've learned from Tiger that the insatiable drive to compete is so powerful. Tiger, Kobe, and MJ have a gear had in Kobe's instance, a gear that. That their competitive nature was so palpable, it permeated everyone in their midst. And you feel it. David, I'm sure you've been around Tiger. There's an aura, man. And even at tgl, Even at tgl, which is certainly a far cry from major championship golf. But when I'm around him down there at tgl, there's just an air of, we're here to win. And he said to me in that first interview, this stopped time for me, this comment. My question to him was, why were you so dominant for so long? And he said, I just want to beat you. I said, tiger, it can't be that simp. And he cut me off. He goes, marty, I didn't say I wanted to win. I said I wanted to beat you. And I sat back in my chair and went, oh, dang. That's just a different, you know. You know Eric really well, too. He has that same gene. There's certain people who have a competitive nature that is just different, and it demands that you elevate if you're going to even be in their presence, because they won't tolerate mediocrity.

[David Novak]

They constantly reinvent themselves, you know, and, you know, Tiger changed his swing a few times, you know, even when he was at the height in his career to striving for greatness. You know, another Grand Slam winner today is Rory McIlroy. What about him? What have you picked up from him?

[Marty Smith]

Been around him for a long time, built a great relationship with him. And he is someone who across the Tour, if you're just talking about God given talent, Rory's going to be the first name that his peers mention that all the experts mention. He just has a swing from God. But he's continued to develop his game. And beyond that, he's developed, to quote Bobby Jones, the most difficult golf course in the world. The 5 inch space between your ears. Through failure, through embarrassment, through heartbreak, through years and years and years of trying to get that career Grand Slam, Rory kept coming back. And there were moments of overwhelming, overwhelming disappointment. Missing cuts at Augusta, finishing second at Augusta and never could climb that mountain. And then once he did, I mean, it unlocked something in him that he didn't, he didn't know what it would be. But then once he unlocked it, because he was able to slay that dragon, I mean, heaven knows how many of these he's going to win.

[David Novak]

You know, Marty, the five inches between your ears. You know, so many of us as leaders, we self sabotage ourselves. You know, we have these things, you know, you know, how do you get through the demons? How do you get rid of those demons to keep you from achieving greatness as a leader?

[Marty Smith]

I think there's a lot of layers to that. One of them, in my opinion. And I talked to Kirby Smart about this. Delegation is so important. You know this. You have to build a team because excellence so often is a team sport. And Kirby told me that he did not become a national championship head coach, he did not become a national champion until he genuinely learned to delegate. He hired people to do a job and he let them do that job. He told me, I'm hell to work for, hell every day, I'm hell to work for. But until I was finally willing to hire excellence and let them be excellent, I couldn't win. Because a CEO has to delegate. And if you are micromanaging, that's your ego. If you delegate, it's self confidence. They are not the same thing. In fact, they are polar opposite ends of the spectrum. Because if you're self confident, you're willing to allow those people to be great too. And that took time for Kirby. And once he did it, he built arguably the best program in the sport.

[David Novak]

And you know, Marty, you're a very human person. The way you've differentiated yourself is by being incredibly capable of building these relationships where people, people Trust you, which is, is, is, is so, so important, you know, so when you, when you think about that, and I compare that to what's going on in the world with AI, you know, you're Mr. Human and then there's AI. How, how, how is AI? How do you look at AI? How does, how do you think about it in your life?

[Marty Smith]

I've been completely against it. I'm coming around, I'm seeing some of the incredible, just mind blowing things that AI does and will continue to evolve and do as we move along. But as someone who makes his, has made his whole life off of intellectual property, it's daunting. Think about songwriters, think about novelists, think about authors, think about people who have been gifted with a mind that allows for that creative ability to produce something that becomes a living, breathing thing. And now somebody can go on the computer and they can create it in 10 minutes. That's hard for me to reconcile. It really is. And then my ice maker breaks in my refrigerator and my wife goes on chat GPT and the thing tells me exactly how to fix it and I had it fixed in five minutes. So I, I know that, I know that it's going to, it's here. I mean, it's not, it's just, it's here. So embracing it is the right thing to do. But I have been apprehensive just out of loyalty to how I've made a life and how so many of my friends, colleagues have made their lives. It's hard. It's hard. You know what I mean? Like, it's a hard thing to reconcile. As somebody that's made a living off

[David Novak]

intellectual property, I appreciate that perspective and it's a damn good one. And well, you know, I use AI all the time now, you know, and I find that it makes me a lot smarter. And I personally believe that the great companies, the great leaders are going to teach their people how to ask great questions so you can get the most out of AI AI, you know, because I think the more you dig, just like you dig in journalism and you get beneath the surface and you ask deeper and more refined questions, the better the output's going to be. So. But I don't like the fact that, and I'm a creative person myself, I dabble in this, I write songs. I'm actually going to be producing my first album this year, you know. You know, and I'm excited about that. But you know, it's, it bothers me like you that somebody could go on ChatGPT and you know, write A country song.

[Marty Smith]

I read an article, and your production staff will have to fact check me on this, but I think this is accurate. I think it was the November 2025 country music singles chart. I think four of the top 10 songs were AI songs.

[David Novak]

I don't like that.

[Marty Smith]

It made me puke. I almost had to go puke.

[David Novak]

You know, I don't like that either. I think creativity is. Is something we all have, and hopefully,

[Marty Smith]

you know, I don't know that it's something we all.

[David Novak]

We all don't have it. Right. We all want to have. Okay? And so when you find somebody like yourself who has it or an Eric Church who has it and all these great people who have it, you know, all the creative people out there, you know, it's a point of differentiation that I. I like seeing coming from the human being. Okay. And I may be wrong, but that's kind of how I look at. At it.

[Marty Smith]

I do think when it's coming from a human being, at least now, the emotional presence within the product, you can feel whether that's a song, whether that's a. A feature on College game day, whether that's, you know, whatever piece of art that. A piece of art. I mean, that artist has spent his or her entire life learning how to create these beautiful images that they're taking a piece of their soul and they're placing on that canvas, or they're taking a piece of their soul and they're placing in that song that's a vulnerable piece of the human condition that lives forever in that work of art. And if that were lost, I just. I don't like it.

[David Novak]

Yeah. And, you know, let's, you know, great example recently that I just loved, and I'm sure, since Eric Church is a mutual friend of ours, is the commencement speech he gave at North Carolina. It's one of the most brilliant speeches I've ever seen. He talked about the chords on the guitar. And, you know, the. You know, the most important chord was the widest chord because it represented the foundation, and that's what you have to have in life. You have to have that strong foundation. He's worked his way up the seven chords, but it was brilliant. And, you know, it came from the heart, it came from insight, it came from experience. And, you know, that's irreplaceable in my mind.

[Marty Smith]

It's. I mean, if it's not the greatest speech I've ever heard, I agree with you. It's certainly one of them. And there's only one person I know that could have ever written something like that and been that creative and been able to remove all that frustration you were discussing a few moments ago in leadership, how do you get out of your own way? How do you distill yourself back to that foundation level and utilize all the failures, all the triumph, all the lessons that come from both, all of the evolution, the culture that you've built within your life, your family, and your team in order to create something like that? The brilliance has no measure. The brilliance has no definition. It's just a creative masterpiece. And that when he writes that book, it'll be a bestseller instantly now.

[David Novak]

And, you know, to all our listeners, you got to go online and see the commencement speech in North Carolina. It's. It's. It's one of the. One of the best. And. And, you know, Marty, this has been so much fun. I want to have a little bit more fun before we wrap this all up. I always do a lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this?

[Marty Smith]

Yes, sir.

[David Novak]

The three words that best describe you.

[Marty Smith]

Passionate, loyal, and kind.

[David Novak]

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?

[Marty Smith]

I can't be my dog. Right. My dog's got the greatest life in the world. So I'm gonna say I would be Casey Beathard.

[David Novak]

Your biggest pet peeve.

[Marty Smith]

I guess the one that I'll use is I hate bathrooms without paper towels.

[David Novak]

Who would hate him?

[Marty Smith]

I hate them damn hand blowers.

[David Novak]

Who would play you in a movie?

[Marty Smith]

Brad Pitt or McConaughey?

[David Novak]

The interview you'd love to have a second chance at.

[Marty Smith]

I would love to have a second chance to interview Kyle Busch, whom we just lost. He had gotten in some. He had made some mistakes as a. As a driver and granted me an interview at the Brickyard 400, I want to say, in around 2012. And I was so green that I would love to have that one back now on many levels.

[David Novak]

Your favorite song by Celine Dion.

[Marty Smith]

Oh, come on, man. Do you want me to sing it?

[David Novak]

Yeah.

[Marty Smith]

When that happened, a lot of your listeners may not know this story. So my favorite song by Celine Dion is near, far, Wherever. Wherever you are. So we're tgl. I'll tell this real quick. I know this is Lightning Round. Seline was there as a guest, and I was interviewing her, and I asked her the question, which song from your amazing catalog best represents your golf game? And she looked at me and started singing the Titanic song and then asked me to sing with her. I started singing with her. I actually know the words. Yes, David, I've got A lot of practice singing in the shower. And, man, that thing was on every Entertainment Tonight, Good Morning America. It was everywhere.

[David Novak]

Near, far, where.

[Marty Smith]

Come on, wherever you are. I believe that my ball will go on.

[David Novak]

You're not bad.

[Marty Smith]

I'm coming to Vegas with. I'm coming to. I'm going to come to Vegas for the residency.

[David Novak]

There you go.

[Marty Smith]

And I can't sing worth a hoot.

[David Novak]

Well, you just demonstrated that. What's something you've been curious about lately that has nothing to do with work?

[Marty Smith]

I would say, AI, I'm getting more curious about that and how it could streamline pieces of my life. But I'm trying to be a better journaler. I get up every morning, I have a journal, I write my thoughts, I write my insecurities and things I want to be better at doing as a father, as a husband, as a friend, as a professional. And so I think that that would be my answer. Take the time to be present and write your life.

[David Novak]

The one thing you do just for you. Golf. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Eric Church, what's something about you few people would know?

[Marty Smith]

It takes about 20 seconds to do my hair.

[David Novak]

What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss besides doing your journal.

[Marty Smith]

Prayer.

[David Novak]

Your Mount Rushmore of interview subjects.

[Marty Smith]

Saban, Tiger Woods, Dale Jr. Just because we've gotten so deep into the sorrow of losing his dad and having to carry an entire industry on his shoulders. And then the fourth one, if you will indulge me and just let me tell a story.

[David Novak]

Sure.

[Marty Smith]

The fourth one is a young lady named Olivia Quigley. Olivia I met in the summer of 2015. I was commissioned to cover the Special Olympics World Games in Los Angeles, California. And it was the first time the Special Olympics had ever been broadcast on television that way. And we did it at espn. And my job was to embed myself with the United States teams, learn their stories and their journeys to the World Games and share that over the two and a half weeks we would broadcast it on espn. Well, the first day I'm in LA for the Games, I go to the University of California, Riverside, and I'm going to talk to the track team. So I walk into this track stadium and the energy was overwhelming. It was palpable. The joy and the spirit emanating from these athletes who'd been told their whole lives, you can't. You'll never. Don't try. You're not capable. These athletes at the Special Olympics World Games have intellectual disabilities. So as I'm standing there witnessing their practice. I'm talking to the head coach of the team, a lady named Bonnie Kahn. She was from Wisconsin. And as I'm talking to Bonnie, I look over to my left and I see an athlete seated all alone on one of those aluminum benches that you would find on the sideline of a rural high school football stadium. And I'm like, what's going on? Who's that? What's going on over there? She goes, oh, that's Olivia. And my reporter antenna went up. So I'll be right back. I'm gonna go talk to her. So I sit down right beside Olivia. She's bald headed, has no hair, stretching her legs. And I said, hey, what are you doing over here all by yourself? She said, I'm just so tired. I said, what do you mean you're tired? Look at, this is incredible. What do you mean you're tired? She said, one word. Chemotherapy. Olivia had been diagnosed with stage four breast cancer and for five months had undergone an exhaustive radiation and chemotherapy treatment regimen before she got the call that she had qualified for World Games. And so she picked up the phone, she called her oncologist and she said, I'm going to go to World Games and I'm going to show women all over the world who are battling this disease what's possible. Well, I had lost my mother to breast cancer when I was 21. My mom was 47. And so I was completely taken by Olivia. And we had this incredible conversation and she had this way of chasing your eyes with hers to make sure that you were listening to her. Well, as we chatted, I learned that she had autism. She was adopted at 3 years old from China by her parents, Dan and Judy Quigley, in Wisconsin. They did not know when they adopted Olivia that she had autism. Well, for Olivia, autism was a condition, not a definition. So I'm enamored with her. As I'm leaving the track stadium that day, she grabs me by the sleeve and she says, Mr. Marty, can you do me a favor? Can you please just tell everybody how happy I am? I said, you have my word. So you fast forward a few days. We're at the University of Southern California. Olivia gets in the blocks for the hundred meter sprint. Gun goes off. Olivia takes off running. She wins the hundred meter gold medal in the Special Olympics World Games, collapses in exhaustion at the finish line. Three days later, she's the anchor leg of the 4 by 100 team relay team. They too win the gold medal. So at this point, Olivia's become a Global story. She's everywhere. She's the face of these games. We've talked about her a lot. I interviewed her on the opening ceremonies on ABC and the LA Coliseum. A beautiful spirit. Well, she and I maintained a relationship, David, for years. She would text me and she would say, hey, I see you here on my tv. Your tie doesn't match, Your hair looks funny. She was awesome. Well, unfortunately, the cancer began to just continue to spread, went to her spine, ultimately to her brain. She was really struggling. Well, I come home from covering an LSU football game during the fall and I open up my mailbox and inside my mailbox there's one of those yellowish brown manila envelopes with a bubble wrap inside. So I tear open this envelope and inside there are two items. There's a piece of stationary and a black velvet box. The stationary was a letter from Olivia's mother, Judy, informing me that unfortunately the cancer had spread to the point that it took her from us, but that she was overwhelmed with gratitude of how ESPN and myself, how we covered Olivia and treated her like a human being, treated her with dignity, treated her with respect. And because of that, she was so infused with self confidence that when they got home from the World Games, she got a full time job at the Children's Hospital of Wisconsin when doctors had told them she'd never have a job, she got her own apartment. When doctors told them she'd never live alone, she got a dog. She became a brown belt in jiu jitsu because she was so self infused with confidence from her experience at World Games. And at the very bottom of that piece of stationary, Judy wrote, before Olivia passed, we created something of a last will and testament. And within that document, Olivia stated that she wanted her special friend, which is what she called me, to have that black velvet box. You don't guess what was in the black velvet box.

[David Novak]

I know. It's the gold medals.

[Marty Smith]

Her gold medal from the 100 meters in the Special Olympics World Games.

[David Novak]

Wow.

[Marty Smith]

And I have that matted and framed in my office in Charlotte, North Carolina, right now, to this day as a tangible reminder of the power of kindness and time.

[David Novak]

Wow. Well, I'm. I'm ending my lightning round after that story. That's so powerful. That's such a great story.

[Marty Smith]

I know. That was definitely. That wasn't light. That was a whole thunderstorm.

[David Novak]

That was, that was.

[Marty Smith]

That is. I carry her with me and I will for all my days.

[David Novak]

That's great. Well, I just got a few more questions and we'll wrap this up and, you know, thank you for sharing that. That's. That. That's an incredible story and shows the impact of what one person can have by just being kind. Just take the time to listen somebody and. And to build a relationship and. And to stay true. It's a great living testimony to the approach that's made you so successful. You know, you mentioned your wife Lainey up front. You know, when you think about where you're at today, what's been the big role she's played in your partnership, there's

[Marty Smith]

no way I could ever pay it enough gratitude, enough respect. She is my best friend. We've been married 26 years. She is my greatest sounding board. She has an intelligence, both emotionally and intellectually, that allows me to look at things through many different prisms. But her greatest attribute is grace. We meet people who have more or less who've done incredible things, who are striving, but you just don't run across innate grace very often. And her willingness to evolve with me as a man is a gift that I could never begin to repay because the man she married is not the man she's married to now. And her selfless approach to evolving with what I've become and continue to become is incredible beyond words. She's lived on an island a lot because in my business, you're on a lot of airplanes. And she's an incredible human being, and I'm so, so grateful for her.

[David Novak]

That's great. You know, and, you know, last question here. What's one piece of advice you'd want to give to anybody that wants to be a better leader?

[Marty Smith]

Know your process. Know how to take that process to inject a culture within your team, within your company, within your tribe that is felt in every corner of the business or every corner of the unit, even if you're not present. As Doc Rivers told me in the book, culture happens when we turn our backs. If you have to have a really difficult conversation with your team or with an individual in your team, what that person is saying when that meeting is over tells you whether or not your culture is intact. If you give your team a difficult task and they're all bellyaching, then you got to fix your culture. If somebody in that team doesn't go, no, that's not how we operate. Suck it up, we're going to do this. That, I think, is imperative. Also, have some understanding or study about crisis management, because if you're a leader, you're going to have to manage a crisis, and there's no playbook for them. But when you're put in that position, can you be the lighthouse that guides everyone through that crisis? I think about Greg Sankey and the Southeastern Conference through Covid. There's no playbook for that, but he was incredible in the way that he led not just sec, but college athletics through one of the greatest unknowns of our lifetimes. And again, I'll finish up with Listen, it's hard to do when you're the tip of the spear, when you're the person that's pulled in every single direction and have oversight of every single sector or silo of the people you're leading, but it is so important when you call a meeting, listen, when you're in front of the people that you have charged with excellence, try to learn from them, too. And I'm taking all of that that I just told you from all of those incredible leaders that were willing to share their time with me in that book.

[David Novak]

And Marty, I want to thank you very much for sharing your time with me. It's been very inspirational and I appreciate just the stories that you've told, the insights that you've shared, and I know it's going to help everybody that listens to this podcast become an even better leader. So thank you very much. I appreciate you.

[Marty Smith]

I'm so grateful to get to spend this time with you and I've learned so much from you. You through this platform and what you guys are doing. It's. It's just. It's like going to Wharton.

[Podcast Host 1]

David, I'm so glad we finally got Marty on the show, even if he was reporting live from his brother in law's laundry room slash converted office. That was awesome.

[David Novak]

That was nice of him to get rid of the tide and the dirty shorts.

[Podcast Host 1]

Man, that story about Olivia Quigley is going to stick with me for a long time. That was really, really sweet.

[David Novak]

Yeah. You know, the act of kindness that a human being can provide is so incredible. And that is such a great story and it's one of the most emotional stories I've heard in a long time and, you know, just shows what the power of a human being has within their capacity.

[Podcast Host 1]

I love the way that Marty pulls these stories out from all of the great people that he gets to sit down with. And I want to recap some of the things that just stood out to me from this episode. David, I love it when Marty said that excellence lives at the intersection of preparedness and passion. Obviously that's something that he takes with him into his work, but how does that land for you?

[David Novak]

Yeah, well, I think that they're kind of. They're totally linked in my mind, you know, because you're usually passionate about something that you love, and because you're passionate about something you love, you want to learn more about it. And because of that, you do, and that makes you prepared. And so when you're passionate and prepared, I think you can perform at the very highest, highest level. And, you know, I think that's what he was really getting at there, and I love it.

[Podcast Host 1]

Obviously, I have to talk about how much Coach Saban has impacted him, because though I've never interviewed nor been a colleague of Coach Saban's, he has also impacted me in my life as a Alabama fan. But I love when you asked him, you know, what's something that you've learned from the greatest leaders? And he said that basically he thought that he prepared well until he met Coach Saban. And it actually reminded me of an interview we did with Jim Nance as well, who talks a lot about the importance of preparation. Say a little bit more about how important preparation is for leaders in the different scenarios that they find themselves in. How do you personally prepare?

[David Novak]

I think I always say that the best leaders have confidence, but that confidence is rooted in competence. The competence comes from really learning your trade. You know, I mean, Coach Saban did not become a good football coach overnight. I mean, he learned his trade, and he was passionate about it, and it drove him to keep climbing that mountain as Marty was talking, never looking down, never being complacent, having a healthy dissatisfaction with the status quo. So you continually get better and better. And, you know, I think that's how in my life, I tried to. To be prepared. I tried to learn every single day that I could. I tried to get better every single day that I could. And I never really was satisfied. You know, I always had, you know, this. This. This quench to get better every single day. And I think that that. That leads you into a mindset of being prepared to. To perform. And you can't perform well if you're not prepared.

[Podcast Host 1]

I love all of the stories that Marty shared in this episode. And it's clear that he approaches his craft maybe differently than many other journalists he talks about. You know, when he was in school, they said, never develop personal relationships with the folks that you report on. And he said that he just tossed that out the window. And that's really, you know, what has set him apart in his career is that he focuses so much on spending the time to develop their relationship. And I love how he encapsulates the Way that he views that, he says there's a difference between what the person is and who the person is. And the way that he approaches getting to know people in relationships is that he focuses on the who, not the what. Say more about that concept.

[David Novak]

Yeah, well, I think what he does is he digs into the individual and he asks questions that are outside of how someone might define themselves. Rather than being a regional vice president of a company, you learn that that person is really engaged in building relationships and enabling others. You know, that's a much bigger thing than just the title that you might have. And so I think, you know, it's a classic Sam Walton phrase where, you know, no one will care about you unless you show that you care about them. And you learn by learning about somebody else outside of what they do. In terms of their job description, I think you literally show people that you care about them and that you're interested in them and that you really want to get to know them on a much deeper level.

[Podcast Host 1]

We talked about this in the episode with Bobby Long, how important relationships are. And sometimes the concept of building relationships and networking can kind of not sit well with some people just because it feels cheap and like you're trying to get something from the other person. But it's really clear the way, you know, that Marty approaches building relationship. Taking the time and building that trust is really what allows him to approach his work differently and has been, you know, the reason that he is as successful as he is in his job.

[David Novak]

You know, Kula, one of the things that I think is very important was that he felt that he could build these relationships and still hold people accountable. You know, in the classic business world, you know, a lot of times leaders think they have to have an emotional distance from the people that they work with so that they can hold them accountable. I don't think that's true. I think you have to have courage. You know, what you have to have is the courage to hold people accountable. You have to have the courage to be vulnerable enough to get to know people on a human level. And then you got to have the courage to hold people accountable, whether you happen to have a great relationship with them on a personal level or not. But I always would much rather work with people I enjoy being around and that I had a relationship with versus people that I didn't really care one way or the other. And that's the best of all worlds. I mean, if you could do business with people that you're friends with, man, that's nirvana. And I did business With a lot of friends and still do business with a lot of friends, but I still hold them accountable, and hopefully it comes right back at me. They hold me accountable, too. Let's not forget that, you know, accountability works both ways.

[Podcast Host 1]

As we wrap this episode, David, I'm curious after that conversation with Marty, what's. What's the main thing that's standing out for you that you're going to take with you?

[David Novak]

Well, I have to tell you, I'm still kind of blown away by the Olivia Quigley story because, you know, this special needs person who has cancer wins two gold medals in the Special Olympics. You know, I mean, that shows me something that I've always really believed in all human beings is that you never really know what you're capable of. You never know. I mean, and, you know, I related that story because I've happened to have cancer twice, and I kind of had the same attitude that I wasn't going to let this beat me. Now, obviously, when. When cancer takes over your body, your body, you know, there's not. Your attitude isn't going to change. You know, it just isn't going to change it. It's just going to happen. But, boy, while you're alive, give it everything you got, because you never know what you're capable of and look what you can achieve. And she, she definitely showed that. But, you know, I think, what did I take away beyond that? I think there's nothing like having that, that, that marriage of passion and preparedness. I think they. They need to be linked and you got to be passionate about what you do so that you really do become totally prepared. It's so important for you to show up prepared, you know, and be ready. Because I loved how Marty talked about it, when you're prepared, you can be present. And for me, it was really good insight about, hey, when you're interviewing somebody, don't be looking down at the paper or looking at the next question, you know, while somebody's giving you the answer. I think I fall prey to that. I'm going to do a better job of getting better and better prepared in everything that I do. I thought that was a great point, and hopefully I'm at least semi prepared, but I think I could take my preparation level up a notch. And then I think if you really want to get to know people, know who they are, not what they are, you know, and really ask questions that get you to get some true insights on what that person is all about. And there's nothing like working with people that you have a relationship with and holding them accountable is still a possibility. It still is something that you got to do. And, and they're not mutually exclusive. You can build relationships and hold people accountable. And frankly, that might be a great example of one plus one equals three. When you can have that great relationship and then hold people accountable. One plus one indeed equals three. So it's a fun episode.

[Podcast Host 1]

Such a fun episode. I'm certainly going to take a lot of these insights and apply them to my life. And I'm excited for Marty to get back in the gear room, as he said. In the gear room.

[David Novak]

Well, I will say this. He doesn't look like Brad Pitt or Matthew McConaughey and he's nor does he

[Podcast Host 1]

sound like Celine Dion.

[David Novak]

Yeah. And he's not that good a singer, but he's a pretty good journalist, I would say.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, David, thanks so much for a great episode of How Leaders Leads. Of How Leaders Lead. And thank you, Marty Smith, for taking the time to be on the show. And thank you, of course, our listeners, for tuning in. We will see you next week.