Broadway Lighting Designer: How the Job Works, What They Make, and How to Break In

Summary

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Summary: Broadway Lighting Designer: How the Job Works, What They Make, and How to Break In

Podcast: How Much Can I Make? — Real Jobs. Real People. Real Money.
Host: Mirav Ozeri
Guest: Kevin Adams (Four-time Tony Award-winning Lighting Designer)
Date: November 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode offers a deep dive into the world of Broadway lighting design with Kevin Adams, celebrated for his innovative lighting on Broadway and beyond. Mirav Ozeri unpacks how Kevin transitioned into lighting, what the day-to-day looks like, the unique structure of earnings (including royalties), industry changes, and the realities of creative collaboration in theater. The episode shines a light—pun intended—on both the artistry and business behind this high-profile but often underappreciated career.

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Kevin Adams’ Journey to Lighting Design

• Accidental Path to Lighting
  • Kevin originally aimed to be a performer, then shifted to set design due to a teacher’s suggestion after a failed audition. He earned a BFA in set design (00:52).
  • Had zero initial interest in lighting—his focus was set and production design. He worked in Hollywood on commercials and production design for film.
  • Only after exposure to artists using light as medium did he experiment, lighting his own sets. This quickly led to others seeking him out as a lighting designer, even though he felt unqualified at first (02:41–04:26):
    • “I just started lighting little shows and each show got bigger. So I was learning about theatrical lighting at the same time.” — Kevin Adams [04:21]

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The Art and Process of Lighting Design

• Live Shows vs. Film

  • Kevin has done both, but prefers live theater for the unique challenges and absence of film reviews (05:03).
  • Digital cameras have made lighting for film more accessible since the camera now captures what the eye sees.

• The Invisible Hand

  • Great lighting is often unnoticed:
    • “It's only when the lighting is best. I think I've been mentioned in reviews like me, maybe 10 times... They don't know how to talk about it. They don't recognize it. They don't see it.” — Kevin Adams [05:39]

• Accepting Projects

  • Kevin chooses shows whose music or story resonates with him:
    • “If I don't like the music or if I don't get the music, I would say no.” — Kevin Adams [06:12]

• Automation and Team Workflow

  • Lighting is programmed into a complex console by a specialist, and once the show opens, designers move on. Stage managers run cues with simple commands (“cue one, go”) [06:44–07:19].
  • Many hands are involved; the designer rarely handles equipment directly due to labor divisions/unions [16:45–19:43].

• Special Effects and Innovation

  • Lighting designers often handle dramatic effects, like simulating storms with dozens of industrial fans for realism (“Swept Away”) [08:42–09:26].

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Creative Collaboration and Personalities

• Working with Performers
  • Good lighting supports every performer, especially for aging or high-profile women. Kevin shares experiences with stars like Patti LuPone, Audra McDonald, and Faye Dunaway, emphasizing both professionalism and quirks, but no true “divas” [09:40–11:22].
    • “Those are really, really hard working, smart people...they’re funny and weird and neurotic and, you know, everything that show folks are.” — Kevin Adams [11:01]

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The Business: Pay, Royalties, and Income Potential

• Union Minimums and Typical Pay

  • Lighting designers belong to a union that sets minimums, which vary:
    • Broadway play/musical: $12,000 to $18,000 per show as a starting point (12:06–12:23).
  • “I don't make minimum.” — Kevin Adams [12:04]

• Royalties (the Real Windfall)

  • Designers of successful shows earn weekly royalties for every running production (including tours and international stagings):
    • “If you design a Broadway show, you get a weekly royalty. If the show runs, every week that it runs, you get paid... It gets better. ...it tours around the US and the world... And you get paid for all of those.” — Kevin Adams [00:04, 14:07]
    • Typical royalty: $500–$1,000+ per week per production, plus periodic shares of box office profit (13:23).
    • Example: Long-running shows can be extremely lucrative, especially if staged worldwide.
      • “That’s where you can make some money. ...I have two tours out now...selling really well...make a lot of money.” — Kevin Adams [14:18–14:28]

• Vegas, Opera, and Non-Broadway Work

  • Vegas shows may pay a lump sum ($50k–$80k), with or without royalties [15:22–15:47].

• Estimated Workload

  • Designing a Broadway show can include a year of part-time prep work, with intense stretches of tech rehearsals (10am–10pm days) [15:47–16:39].
  • Multiple shows can be juggled at different stages.

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The Technical Side: Shops, Unions, and Ever-Evolving Technology

• Theater is a Blank Slate

  • Broadway theaters start as empty shells; every light, cable, and tool is ordered, installed, and eventually removed [17:22–18:48].
    • “There’s nothing in a theater.” — Kevin Adams [17:24]

• Ordering and Installing Equipment

  • Designers and their associates coordinate complex “shop orders” down to each cable [18:10–18:48].

• Technological Change

  • The biggest shift: transition from traditional bulbs and fluorescents to LEDs. Early LEDs only lit backgrounds; now, technology allows high-quality light for people and detailed color changes [21:09–23:09].
    • “The cool thing about LED is...there's a huge amount of lighting instruments we can choose from, but they're LED, and the colors have gotten quite nice. You can light humans now. It is changing so quickly.” — Kevin Adams [22:53]

• Staying Up to Date

  • Younger associates often keep seasoned designers current on the latest equipment [23:09–23:32].

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Awards, Recognition, and Career Impact

• Awards Experience

  • Kevin shares the anxiety and torture of waiting between Tony nominations and the awards show, the pressure of writing speeches, and the surprising difference between winning and “relaxed” losing [23:32–25:14].
  • Winning major awards (especially for groundbreaking work like “Spring Awakening”) elevates a designer’s career and earning potential:
    • “Spring Awakening, like, really moved me to a different category of designer, and that included more money.” — Kevin Adams [25:55]

• Most Memorable Show

  • “Hedwig and the Angry Inch” stands out as a labor of love, transforming from struggling Off-Off Broadway to a Tony-winning Broadway hit over decades.
    • “We couldn't give the tickets away... And then I did it on Broadway in 2014... and it was sold out every night.” — Kevin Adams [26:38–27:44]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “If you design a Broadway show, you get a weekly royalty. And if it does really well, that's where you make some money. But then, hold on, it gets better.” — Kevin Adams [00:04]
• “When the lighting is best... they don't even mention the lighting. ...They don't know how to talk about it. They don't recognize it. They don't see it.” — Kevin Adams [05:39]
• “There's a person I talk to, and they program the lighting into that console. And then come opening night, that person's moved on to another job. I've moved on. My assistants moved on, my associates moved on. And then there's a group of people in the theater who maintain the show. And there's one guy who presses you. Just press go.” — Kevin Adams [06:46]
• “People die and that shows a long time ago, but. Yeah, I mean... people make so much more now because of current contracts, but, yeah, those people made a lot of money.” — Kevin Adams [14:46]

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Key Takeaways

• Lighting design is a unique blend of art, technology, and collaboration—often unrecognized except by insiders.
• Income can be substantial, especially with royalties from hit shows multiplying weekly—sometimes globally.
• Entry-level designers can expect minimums ($12k–$18k per show), but the real money comes from royalties on smash hits and participation in blockbuster productions.
• The work is cyclical, collaborative, and technical, requiring ongoing education as technology evolves.
• Awards matter, both financially and for reputation, but consistent creativity and relationship-building matter most.
• Those hoping to break in should be prepared for a journeyman’s path, networking, and constant learning—but, as Kevin notes, sometimes it’s about saying yes to what inspires you and being ready for the unexpected call.

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Transcript

[Kevin Adams]

If you design a Broadway show, you get a weekly royalty. And if the show does really well, that's where you make some money. But then, hold on, it gets better.

[Podcast Host]

And it gets better indeed. Hi and welcome back to How Much Can I Make? This week we're stepping into the spotlight, literally with one of the masters behind the magic of lighting. Our guest is a four time Tony Award winner, Kevin Adams. He is a lighting designer whose work has illuminated Broadway, Las Vegas Opera and many other productions. So let's find out from Kevin. What does it take to become an award winning lighting designer? So, Kevin, first of all, thank you so much for willing to do that.

[Kevin Adams]

Nice to be here today.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you. Let's start by telling us how did you get into lighting design?

[Kevin Adams]

I really wanted to be a performer. Like lots of young performers, I would do little puppet shows. In high school, I was in plays and musicals. After a really bad audition for the Diary of Anne Frank, I had a high school teacher who very gently guided me into set design. He suggested I might want to be the set designer for the Diary of Anne Frank. I remember thinking like, what's that? And he explained it and then I just like, I just took to that so quickly. And then I went to the University of Texas in Austin and, and got a BFA in set design. Never studied lighting, had no interest in lighting, didn't notice the lighting. I was just like really ambitious and dedicated to set design. And then I went to California Institute of the Arts and I went there to study more set design. But they also taught production design for film. MTV premiered in late 1981 and in 84 it was still around the clock, you know, music shorts, which was like thrilling at the time. And I thought like, oh, this is something I want to be a part of. So I studied production design for film, didn't study lighting, had zero interest in lighting, really. Two year program at an art school and it cost so little at the time. And moved into Hollywood. I worked in film a lot. I was a dresser, props dresser, set dresser, which I really loved. Built scenery. I was an art director. I was a production designer. I worked on lots of like high end commercials like Bose Speakers and Apple and lots of beer like Budweiser and Budweiser light and. And then. Because there's still lighting to come, right?

[Podcast Host]

Because you said you were totally not interested in lighting.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I saw the work of fine artists that use light in their work at various museums. I saw that work a lot, new work and old work. And I, I saw that I could design a space around these things that I found in hardware. Stor bulbs and fluorescent tubes that could make light and turn on and off very quickly and make a new space. And I started lighting my own little sets and immediately the phone started ringing with these really well known. You know, in the late 80s and early 90s, there was a huge performance art scene in this country. Well, Rachel Rosenthal, this really interesting lady called me. She had been performing, she was an older lady who shaved her head. And I started working with her, lighting her shows. And eventually we had five different shows that we would do. And John Fleck was one of the NEA4 and he was my first LA boyfriend. I started lighting his work and doing little sets for him. And then like well known directors would call me, but all these people would say the same thing. They'd say, hey, I saw that show you did. That's how I see my work. Do you want to come light my work? And I'd say like, I am not a lighting designer at all. Like I did, I did that little show or two and I'm a trained set designer, I know how to make shows, but I don't know anything about lighting. And they all said, you know what, that's okay, come try this. And if it works, that's great. And if it doesn't, it's no big deal. Which was like really hard to say no to, you know, because these people were like making really interesting work and they were all really well known. So I just started lighting little shows and each show got bigger. So I was learning about theatrical lighting at the same time.

[Podcast Host]

Do you prefer working on live shows or film?

[Kevin Adams]

Once I became a lighting designer, I lit a music video when I lived in la and that was shot on film, this Janet Jackson music video. But that was for film. And I did not understand how film captured light at all. I had, I had a lot of help from the DP and the director. Now that film is digital, our cameras are digital. And the cameras mostly see what the eye sees. I've lit some things in the last few years. Like I lit part of that Mildred Pierce on hbo.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah. There's a whole concert thing in the middle of it that I spent a lot of time on. It's minutes of the film, but I spent two months on it. That was digital. And so what you see with your eyes kind of what the camera sees. And you can have a monitor that's very similar. What's exactly what the camera is going to see that's much easier to light and balance and that I could understand. I like that no reviewer is going to come to it and review it. And I like that we don't go through that process that we go through in New York City with theater, which is.

[Podcast Host]

But I assume when the lighting is right, the reviewers will not even notice anything.

[Kevin Adams]

It's only when the lighting is best. I think I've been mentioned in reviews like me, maybe 10 times. I mean, shows that I've won Tony's for. Like, they don't even mention the lighting. It's just like. No, they just don't talk about. They don't. People know how to talk about it. They don't recognize it. They don't see it.

[Podcast Host]

They don't see it. I know.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So let's say a director or a producer comes to you, a Broadway show after 4 Tonys. I'm sure a lot of them come to you. So they come to you with a play. First of all, do you have to live the play that you work on?

[Kevin Adams]

Do I have to like it?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Kevin Adams]

You know, when you light a show, a musical, you have to hear those songs a lot. Like, over and over and over and over and over. If I don't like the music or if I don't get the music, I would say no.

[Podcast Host]

Once you design the lighting, do you have to be there for every show or.

[Kevin Adams]

No, they. You're pretty much off the case. Like, once a show opens, you're done. Because they can't afford to have programmers and they have to pay everyone to work more.

[Podcast Host]

So do you.

[Kevin Adams]

The plan is not to pay anyone.

[Podcast Host]

Do you automate the lighting?

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah. Yes. So there's a programmer, which. That is a great field to get into. There's a huge console, we call it, which is a computer that gets more complicated every year. And there's a person I talk to, and they program the lighting into that console. And then come opening night, that person's moved on to another job. I've moved on. My assistants moved on, My associates moved on. And then there's a group of people in the theater who maintain the show. And there's one guy who presses you. Just press go. The stage manager calls a cue. Like cue one, go. Cue two, go. Q3, go. So it's like that the producer would.

[Podcast Host]

Come to you and offer you the job, or director, all kinds of people.

[Kevin Adams]

It's usually a director will call me and say, hey, I'm doing this thing. And I'll be like, I'll find out who else is working on it and send me the Script. So I'll read it and listen to it. Sometimes it's an unfinished script. Sometimes if it's an opera and it's new, you get nothing other than like a topic because it doesn't exist yet. For an opera, for musical, sometimes there's a recording of like a workshop.

[Podcast Host]

So you get the recording. What do you do? You start drawing what you want to do.

[Kevin Adams]

I just listen to it. I just sit and listen to it.

[Podcast Host]

You get the atmosphere. I mean, what inspires you?

[Kevin Adams]

Usually just like, what is the story? What, what's the music like? What kind of music is it? I do a lot of shows with electric guitars. I do a lot of like rock pop shows. I mean, everyone does now. But I had done. I have done a lot of like rock theater shows.

[Podcast Host]

Do you do special effects in those? Like special effects with light?

[Kevin Adams]

Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah, Just smoke. Lots of smoke effects. Lightning effects, fire effects. Like flame in a barrel and like what else? Lightning, you know, rain, things like that. For Swept Away that I just did on Broadway.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Kevin Adams]

I hung 30 industrial sized carpet dryer fans around the theater.

[Podcast Host]

Why?

[Kevin Adams]

There was a huge storm in the show and so we had wind blowing through the entire theater. It was really neat.

[Podcast Host]

That's part of your job, I would think. That's part of the set designer.

[Kevin Adams]

No, that's an effect. It says a special effect that I knew how to do. We had rain in the show too, but that I didn't know how to do. And we had, I think scenery kind of took care of that.

[Podcast Host]

So when you did 30 fans, that must have been very noisy.

[Kevin Adams]

No, it was. But it's a really loud storm and the storm covered it up. But yeah, when you turned it on, it sounded like you were in a huge H vac system. I mean, it was quite a loud rumble.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Kevin Adams]

You could hear it when the storm ran. It was really amazing. But you'd feel it and it stop. It would stop and start and stop and start. And the whole theater felt it. It was really neat.

[Podcast Host]

Wow, that's an experience for an audience. I'm sure that's pretty cool.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah. Wind.

[Podcast Host]

Did you ever work with a diva, either in opera or film or theater, that complained about the lighting? She doesn't want wrinkles to show or something.

[Kevin Adams]

I mean, you. We are, we are obligated to especially take care of the women and make sure they look good. And especially the older women, they want to look good. But you also, like. I go up and talk to them often and tell them how good they look and. And you're looking great. And they want to know that you're taking care of them. Understandably. And those. Those women who are like, solid show women, like Patti LuPone and Autumn McDonald, they're like, not divas at all. They're amazing. They want to look good, and if they didn't, they would tell you. But you take care of them and they're amazing women. I worked with Faye Donaway not long ago, and that was. That was an absolute trip. Why? Well, she's by far the most complicated person I've ever worked with, but also was, like, fascinating, you know.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, really?

[Kevin Adams]

Everything I was hoping it was would be. She was amazing.

[Podcast Host]

Who was the greatest to work with from all the women?

[Kevin Adams]

Oh, Patty's amazing. I did a lot of things with Patti LuPone and Audra McDonald. Those are. They're all just like show folk. Those are all just like, Patty's like a Jersey mom. I mean, those are all just like show folk. You know, they're great. They show up early to work every day and they work hard. And when all the kids, like, leave on breaks or lunch, they're, like, still working and they'll stay after and work. And those are really, really hard working, smart people. And I love their. You know, and they're show folk. They're funny and weird and neurotic and, you know, everything that show folks are.

[Podcast Host]

And from the guys. Who was the most difficult to work with?

[Kevin Adams]

Difficult.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, pleasure.

[Kevin Adams]

I can't. There were some, like, super lazy tenors who were just, like, coasting through the show. They're just handsome guys who kind of coast.

[Podcast Host]

We talked before that. You don't know really about pay because after four tonies and eight nominations. Right, that's correct. This is crazy, Kevin. It's crazy. So you're on a total different echelon, but if somebody starts.

[Kevin Adams]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Can you give us an idea? What. What can they make? Yes.

[Kevin Adams]

I have no idea. You know, I'm in a union. We have minimums for designers and shows. I don't make minimum.

[Podcast Host]

Do you know what the minimum is? Any idea?

[Kevin Adams]

Well, it's plays and musicals are different. A Broadway musical, there's phases. There's like a musical with one set and there's a musical with two sets and there's multi. There's all these different categories. I think it's like 12 or 16 or 17 or 18,000.

[Podcast Host]

For a show, For a week.

[Kevin Adams]

For a show? For a show, not for a week. Then you get paid. If you design a Broadway show, you get a weekly royalty. If a show Does. Well, what do you mean?

[Podcast Host]

Weekly royalty. Wait, I never heard about that.

[Kevin Adams]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how we make money. If a show runs like the Lion King or Book of Mormon or so many other shows that aren't my shows. If the show runs every week that it runs, you get paid. And then you get paid a minimum, which in the last few years is like 500 or 750 or 1000 a week. And then on top of that, there's cycles of royalties. So every four weeks, they count up the box office, they deduct the cost of running the show, then they divide what's left up. Everyone has a percentage based on their contract. The writers, the director, the choreographer, the designers, the actors. It's the creative side what they call.

[Podcast Host]

But wait, I need to understand this because I never heard about it before.

[Kevin Adams]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

So let's say you work on the Lion King. You design the lighting.

[Kevin Adams]

Let's say that. Okay. Yes.

[Podcast Host]

And you designed everything. Everything is now basically half automated. Maybe you have somebody that pushed the. You still get the royalties.

[Kevin Adams]

You still. Still get the royalties. But then. Hold on, it gets better. So then your production of the Lion King is running in New York and then it's running in LA and many other places. Correct. It tours around the US in the world. One or two tours. It's running in Dubai and South Africa and Shanghai. Right.

[Podcast Host]

It's all over the world.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah. Yeah. And you get paid for all of those?

[Podcast Host]

Oh, wow.

[Kevin Adams]

Indeed. That's a great job. Indeed. Not many. There aren't many designers on Broadway and there certainly aren't many people that have shows that run like that.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Kevin Adams]

But, yes, that's where you can make some money. Like, I have two tours out now that. From shows I did on Broadway that are selling really, really, really well.

[Podcast Host]

And you make royalties.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah, make a lot of money.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

That's a sweet thing.

[Kevin Adams]

Correct.

[Podcast Host]

So whoever worked on the Phantom of the Opera made. Didn't have to work again.

[Kevin Adams]

She died. But. Correct. She was found out in her tub, but yes. Really?

[Podcast Host]

Oh, my God, I feel guilty for laughing.

[Kevin Adams]

No, no, no, no, no. The set designer. I mean, you know, people die and that shows a long time ago, but. Yeah, I mean. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they made. They. That was a show from the 80s, so they, like. People make so much more now because of current contracts, but, yeah, those people made a lot of money. They were making. That was an 80s contract, so they were making. Not near what people make now.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, but they made it for 30 some years. Yeah.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah. Oh, totally. And that show ran everywhere and toured everywhere.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Kevin Adams]

Every day, every week, you get a check from all those.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Kevin Adams]

Indeed. That's great.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, which.

[Kevin Adams]

If you do a show in Vegas, most shows in Vegas that you design, they don't have royalties. They just pay you one big lump. Some. Some shows will give royalties, weekly royalties, but a lot of shows will just pay you, like, a chunk of money. And then you open the show and you're done. I mean, a fee could be 50,000 or 60 or 80 or, you know, something like that.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

It doesn't take that long to design a show, right? To design lighting for a show, I.

[Kevin Adams]

Spend about a year in pre production on the show. I mean, that's not every day. But if we start a show out of town, I start usually a year before that. We start in meetings, lots of meetings. Then the set is designed, then we do the plot. So, you know, that's like four hours here, four hours there. Four hours, you know, throughout a year.

[Podcast Host]

That's a lot of work.

[Kevin Adams]

Correct. And you're on the job. You're doing other shows also. Then rehearsals, like, four or five weeks. I myself, this. Most people don't do this, but I go to, like, three weeks of that rehearsal. Then you're in the theater for tech. So, like, in tech, come in at 10, work 10 to 12, and we start rehearsal on stage at 1. And then we'll go to, like, a shorter day, is like 1 to 9, but sometimes we'll go to 1 to 10 or 1 to 10:30. So I'm there like maybe 8 in the morning till 10:30 at night.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Kevin Adams]

But I have a lot of work to do, and I, you know, I have a lot to do.

[Podcast Host]

So do you actually hang the lights too, or you have people.

[Kevin Adams]

No, I wouldn't. I've never touched. I wouldn't know how to do that. No. There are people who do that for a living.

[Podcast Host]

So you just give orders. Put this light there, put that.

[Kevin Adams]

We draw it all out, and then my associate draws it all out. There's a production electrician. The show hires a production electrician. He's like the head electrician. He takes the drawings. He figures it all out. Like, where everything's gonna run. He oversees the hanging, the installation of the plot. Because when you do a Broadway show, you're renting a completely empty theater. There's nothing in a theater.

[Podcast Host]

No lights, no rig, nothing.

[Kevin Adams]

There's no lights. There's no WI fi, There's no air conditioners. There's no. There's a whole wardrobe department. It needs washers and dryers and steamers and hangers and shelves. And there is nothing.

[Podcast Host]

They bring everything for a production.

[Kevin Adams]

Correct. It is an empty box. I mean, you might have like an AC unit in a window here and there for a dressing room, and there might be some chairs in a dressing room. And that's it. There's. It is an empty building. So we. Each department gets all this stuff and installs it all. And that's part of like the load in and the. So you're installing like a complete business in a theater.

[Podcast Host]

So part of your job is to order all the different lights that you're gonna need for the show.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah, yeah. So my associate makes a shop order with the production electrician because every. This all comes out of a shop that they bid on. And then there's a weekly rental cost.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Kevin Adams]

And every single cable, screw, piece of gel, gel holder, everything you would ever need is in that shop order. I don't understand what most of it means because it's like monitors and monitors and all kinds of cable and I mean, it's just like pipe and ladders and genie lifts. And you get an empty box of a building that you have to put a show up in.

[Podcast Host]

That's so crazy. I thought that they give it to you with the lights and you just change them around.

[Kevin Adams]

No, no, no, no. Because those lights, where every show is different, every set's different. So you need lights in different places. But also now lighting is like, if you went into a theater, you would want to update all that stuff, you know? Now, like, moving lights are changing so quickly. So you. We get whatever's on the shelves that's probably newer and install it all. And the lights aren't going to hang at the same place every time. Yeah, but anyway, to answer your question, I don't hang the lights. There are then electricians, right, that are hired by the show and maybe whoever owns the theater. I haven't quite figured this out. And they hang the lights and I go in and watch occasionally and point. I'm not allowed to touch anything.

[Podcast Host]

Oh. Because it's a different union. Of course it is.

[Kevin Adams]

But also they take pride in me. Not.

[Podcast Host]

I can see that.

[Kevin Adams]

But like on a film, it's definitely like, don't touch that. Like, it's. That's definitely union divided labor of who touches what. So. Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Do you find that it helped you that you worked at your earlier life before you got into lighting? You work in sets, you worked in that. Do you feel that that helped you in your profession at the moment?

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah, totally, because I. A lot of what I. There's two kinds of lighting to me. There's the kinds of lighting where the lights are visible, there's no masking, and the overhead lights are visible and the side lights are visible. Or I have things more inside the space that are visible. Those things are really informed by my work as a set designer, how they occupy the space and how they frame the space and all this stuff. Second kind of lighting is the lights are not seen because they're all behind masking and borders. And that's more just like traditional theater lighting.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Kevin Adams]

Like, I think most of the things I did at the Metropolitan Opera, the lighting was hidden. Half the things I do in Broadway, I did a lot of shows where the lighting was visible, like American Idiot and Spring Awakening. But about half the shows I do now, the lighting is not visible.

[Podcast Host]

We mentioned before, before we started to record how technology changed over the years. Can you give us a little taste of what it's like now compared to what it was?

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah. On the planet Earth?

[Podcast Host]

No, you're not. Yet.

[Kevin Adams]

We have just gone through. In the last, like, 16, 17, 18 years, we've gone through this transition of this energy efficiency transition every day to LED in your homes, the deli, at the big box store, theater.

[Podcast Host]

In the theater.

[Kevin Adams]

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. That happened all in just 14 or 15 or 16 years.

[Podcast Host]

But can you have, like, a direction light with an led?

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was quite crude. I think the first LEDs were used on Broadway, like, in the early 2000s, mostly just to light backgrounds.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Kevin Adams]

Because they were.

[Podcast Host]

I can see that.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah. Like Spring Awakening, I had these huge walls and they were lit with led. Next to normal, I had a background that was lit with led. And then eventually the color improved and the direction, the thing you're talking about. And you could light humans with LED. Like for SpongeBob the Musical, I didn't have much gel at all. And it was the people, the backgrounds and the scenery and the people were lit with led. Often there's no heat build up. You would get on a set that's tight and that heat just builds up. Right. Especially, like, behind. And now it doesn't. And it's great. And you don't change color as much because color is not burning or it's led. It's like making the color. I did three musicals on Broadway that used a huge amount of fluorescent light. Spring Awakening, Next to Normal and Passing Strange, each used a tremendous amount of fluorescent tubes and fluorescent light. Bulbs. And none of that stuff exists anymore. The cool thing about LED is there's. It comes in all these different shapes and gadgets and doodads and sizes. So there's a huge amount of lighting instruments we can choose from, but they're led, and the colors have gotten quite nice. You can light humans now. It is changing so quickly. The lighting industry.

[Podcast Host]

How do you keep up with the changes? How do you know?

[Kevin Adams]

Now I have young associates who know.

[Podcast Host]

About it all the time.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah. And they go see, they work on lots of different things, and they know what the shop has and they know. They're like, oh, you might really like this. Or there's this new light that's come out with no fan. It's really quiet, and you might like it. And they know.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, I have to ask you about all the Tonys that you want. Yes, first of all, I want to know about the first one. When you got the phone call, what did you feel?

[Kevin Adams]

You get nominated, so you get a call in the morning. Usually my agent calls me and says, hello, how are you this morning? And I'll say, oh, what's going on? I'm just lying here in bed. Is something happening? We have this old game we play then. It used to be four weeks between your time you're nominated and the Tony Awards. Now it's five weeks. So that's torture. And then the awards are in June. It's hot. And you have to get dressed up. That part's a pain. Like, what are you gonna wear? It's hot. It's a long, long, long, long, long, long day and night. But the heart, the biggest thing is preparing a speech. Like, oh, my God, I have to get up in front of the entire world at Radio City Music hall and say something. So I, like, practice and practice and practice and practice and practice. That. That's the scariest thing. Then once you get through that, it's a different night.

[Podcast Host]

So you were nominated eight times and won four times.

[Kevin Adams]

Correct.

[Podcast Host]

So the four times that you lost, were you highly disappointed?

[Kevin Adams]

No, the first time, I didn't win. I was nominated twice that year, and I knew that. Which shows were there, Hair and Next to Normal. And I had won the year before. I'd won two years before. So, you know, I didn't have any complaints. And to be nominated twice was amazing.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Kevin Adams]

But it's really hard to win. And also, I knew that Billy Elliot would win. Someone had told me, like, if you know you're not gonna win when you go, it's a much funner night. And, boy, is that true.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, really?

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah, because you're. You can wear relaxed shoes. You can just enjoy the night. Night. And that four or five weeks of torture between the time you're nominated. In the night, there's less torture.

[Podcast Host]

How come you knew you're not gonna win?

[Kevin Adams]

Like, I could tell you months ago what's gonna win this year.

[Podcast Host]

You said Sunset Boulevard. You think will win this year?

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah, probably. I knew that, like, the day they opened, they were probably gonna win it.

[Podcast Host]

I interviewed the makeup person for that and the wig maker.

[Kevin Adams]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, that would probably win. The lighting for lighting this year, the winning nights, I just. It's a long night and I end up just, like, on the sofa sleeping. Like, just like. It's so tense. It's a lot to go through.

[Podcast Host]

And you make a lot more money after you win, right? I mean, your career just takes off.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah, in theory. I mean, Spring Awakening, like, really moved me to a different category of designer, and that included more money. But partly that was because that show really. I was like 40 something. And that show really showed off my idea ideas I had been working on for years, really clearly. So I had really good ideas that were presented in a really good show that were really on the radar. And so it was not only that I got a Tony, but it was like that I did some excellent work that really shined, that all that together kind of made, like, a career life change.

[Podcast Host]

Is there one show or performance that you worked on that except Excited you the most, that you're proud of the most?

[Kevin Adams]

I worked on Hedwig and the Angry Inch many, many years, which was a fantastic show. Yeah, yeah. We started. I worked in the first Off Off Broadway production in 90.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, wow.

[Kevin Adams]

I think we did that at the West Beth, which is not even there anymore. We opened at the Jane street Theater on February 14, 1998, and ran for two and a half years. I designed Hedwig in several cities. We couldn't give the tickets away. No one wanted to come see a rock and roll drag queen. No one knew what that was or no one cared what that was. And then I. Then I did it on Broadway in 2014.

[Podcast Host]

And that's when you got the Tony.

[Kevin Adams]

I did. I did. But I always loved working on that show because I just love the songs. By the time we got to 2014, people knew the show.

[Podcast Host]

Right?

[Kevin Adams]

People knew the songs. Like I said, in the 90s, we couldn't give those tickets away because the movie came out and all this stuff, and people were just. It was sold out every night, and they brought this amazing energy in, and they couldn't wait to be in this room with Hedwig. And it was so thrilling. You know, they were just. They were so open to it and excited by it and. Yeah, that's neat.

[Podcast Host]

Excellent.

[Kevin Adams]

That part's great.

[Podcast Host]

All right. And on that note, thank you.

[Kevin Adams]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

So much for doing it. It's so interesting.

[Kevin Adams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

The royalty thing, really? Wow. I didn't know about it. Now I wish I was a lightning.

[Kevin Adams]

I know. That's how we make a lot of money.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, that's a wrap for today. If you have a comment or question or would like us to cover a certain job, please let us know. Visit our [e-mail] we would love to hear from you. And on your way out, don't forget to subscribe. And subscribe share this episode with anyone who is curious about their next job. See you next time.