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Restaurant Owner Job: Career Change Story of Nicole Crawley
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- [00:04]
A
It is a lot of behind the scenes work. It is long hours. It is one of the most detail oriented business I have ever looked at. It's just so management intensive.
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B
Hi, welcome back to How Much Can I Make? I'm your host, Mehra Vozeri. Ever dream of completely flipping your career? Our guest today, Nicole Crowley, actually did just that. After 20 years in corporate banking, she pivoted completely and is now the co owner of 3 Yum Yum Noodle bars in the Hudson Valley. So what does it take to jump into the restaurant world? Let's find out From Nicole, thank you so much for doing it and sharing your time and knowledge.
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A
My pleasure. I'm flattered.
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B
Great. So let's dive right in. You had a huge pivot from corporate banking to co owning restaurants. What did you do in corporate banking and what was the journey like that you ended up as a co owner of restaurants?
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A
I was a corporate banker. I was what's called an originator, which is that I originated new deals for the institutions that I worked for, the banks that I worked for, and I did both debt and equity financings and I specialized in the media, telecom and entertainment.
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B
Basically going buying companies.
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A
Some of it was acquisition work, but a lot of it was also construction work at the time that I entered the banking industry. The early stages of cable companies still building out cable networks, cable television networks still building out a lot of coverage across the country. And cell phones were really just beginning to come onto the marketplace. So all of those cell phone networks were brand new and were still being constructed. So we did a lot of that type of project finance. I also financed TV and radio station acquisitions, outdoor advertising, newspaper publishing.
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B
So from that you became a co owner of restaurants. How did this come about?
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A
I spent 20 years in the corporate banking industry and I lived through the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy. It was a very traumatic experience. A lot of bad things were happening in the finance world and I wanted to get out. I didn't want to be a part of that. I wanted to make a change. And I had had a kind of fantasy for many years about going to the Culinary Institute, you know, and I'd always kind of wondered if I could do it at that professional level. And when the Lehman Brothers thing happened, I was just like, you know, maybe this is a really insane time. The world seems to be falling apart. So you know, what the hell, I'm just gonna apply to the CIA and see if they accept me. And they did. And I matriculated in January of 2010 and spent two years there. I Got my associate's degree.
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B
So what was it like all of a sudden being a student again?
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A
It was shocking. Not so much because of the learning curve, but just because you go to a place like CAA and they don't really. Not only do they have no understanding of what I had done previously, you know, they have a mindset, I would say, at least at that time, that, you know, everybody is a, you know, a late teens and early 20s student who needs to be whipped into shape. A lot of my chefs instructors were former Marines, for example, you know, who had a sort of boot camp mentality about the whole thing. And it really was like joining the Army. It was very regimented, had a set course of instruction, and it really didn't deviate for anybody. You know, it wasn't like you had elected or you could take this and that. You did the program, and it was either baking and pastry or it was savory cooking. And whichever one you chose, you did. Everybody did the same thing.
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B
And. But what was your dream? Was your dream to become a chef?
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A
My plan ultimately was to own restaurants because by that point, you know, I was already old enough to be my classmate's parent. I wasn't going to be cooking in a restaurant kitchen, you know, 12 hours a day at that stage of life. Right. But I wanted to be able to combine my business expertise, my financial expertise, and my culinary interests and a business. So that was kind of the goal. And, you know, when I graduated In September of 2011, it wasn't clear, you know, I had to look around. Right. It wasn't like you just walked out and said, oh, well, hey, I'm going to start a restaurant. You know, it had to be the right opportunity. And I got introduced to my business partner a couple years later. Originally, I was brought in by her business partner, her then business partner, to be the chief financial officer of the company. Ultimately, we took out the business partners, the other two partners, and Eric and I had a meeting of the minds, and we felt we would be better suited.
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B
You and her became partners on the one restaurant that she had?
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A
Well, no, there were two restaurants at that time. There was Yum Yum Woodstock and Yum Yum Kingston. So we had the two restaurants already, and we're 50, 50 owners in the business. Then we opened another Yum Yum together in Red Hook across the river.
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B
And how did you determine that she would be the right person for you to invest in?
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A
Our various expertises are very compatible. Like, she's been cooking in professional kitchens since she was 15. Years old when she was still in school. And she's had a number of restaurants, she's worked in other people's restaurants. She's owned another restaurant of her own. She's had a huge amount of experience and understands how to operate a kitchen, you know, how to purchase things, how to manage a staff, how to hire all of those operating things. And I had the financial expertise and so I understood, you know, about financing the business, I understood about accounting, I understood about regulatory side of things, all of that. So our areas of competence work very well together. We kind of COVID all the bases.
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B
Are you involved in the day to day operation of the restaurant at all? The menu, the food?
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A
I'm not cooking in the restaurant at all. There was a point where we had a food truck that we operated in the summers and she and I would work that together. But mostly my stuff is behind the scenes. It's all the financial and tax filings and all of that kind of thing. Regulatory stuff. Permanent renewals.
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B
When you decided to invest, were you looking more into the financial health of the business or into the value of, for the community, the kind of food and all of that?
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A
Both of it. I mean I just, by the time I became an owner in the business, a co owner, I could see the potential for the business. You know, it works very, very well. It was something that you could scale up. So from a business perspective, it was very attractive. You know, from a growth perspective, you know, the economics of it just made sense. We run a very lean ship. The menu works very well. There's a lot of optional in a, you know, having three restaurants that are the same concept, that works very well. It would be much harder if we had three restaurants that were three different concepts. For example, so purchasing be different, the staffing would be different, everything would be different.
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B
I always hear that it's the worst business to get into.
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A
Well, you know, it's a funny thing because I think people sometimes have very glamorous and unrealistic ideas about what owning a restaurant is going to be like. I think they think it's going to be, you know, this wonderful sort of nightlife kind of thing where you go and you know, everyone's looks beautiful and your friends come and see you and you're hanging out and you know, being like an impresario. And you know, the reality is not that, you know, it is a lot of behind the scenes work. It is long hours. It is one of the most detail oriented business I have ever looked at. And I say that from a banker perspective. It's just so management intensive. So many things can go wrong. You know, you can have staff who doesn't show up or who quits on you unexpectedly, or you could have theft or you could have, you know, just costs that spiral out of control or, you know, so many things, you know, equipment always breaks down. Trash removal can be problematic.
- [07:47]
B
How much food safety.
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A
Food safety is another thing. You have to be all over that. Absolutely all over that. And, you know, we've been fortunate in that we have a very good relationship with the health departments in the two counties we operate in, Ulster and Dutchess. But, you know, you have to be on it all the time and you have to train new staff, all of them, in the proper ways of handling and storing food and preparing food, because otherwise you could end up with huge problem.
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B
So as far as your work, do you go throughout the week to all three restaurants, check them out. How often do you do that?
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A
Well, I'm there at least once a week at every single restaurant and usually several times more than that because I'm there to, you know, pick up cash deposits, pick up invoices, because I take care of all of that stuff as well. You're always looking around to make sure that people are doing what they're supposed to be doing, that the place is clean. All the things that you would expect, really. You know, it has to be a place that is attractive for people to come into and feel like they're going to have a wonderful experience with a good quality meal.
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B
Do you also sell liquor in the restaurants?
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A
Yes, we have full liquor licenses in all three restaurants.
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B
Oh, that's the money maker in the restaurant, right?
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A
Well, actually, you'd be surprised. You know, we are to a certain extent really a family restaurant. You know, we have a kids menu. It's just not the place you're going to go if you're looking to tie one on, you know, you're going to go to a different kind of bar. You know, Yum Yum is a family place more than anything else, I would say.
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B
Did it give you the appetite to open an another one and another one? Is it like many making money by the numbers?
- [09:19]
A
Well, I will tell you, I mean, our initial plan had been to continue to open restaurants. And what has happened over the last decade is that, you know, the immigration policies in this country have become so draconian that it is very difficult to find qualified kitchen staff. And what we find is a lot of Americans don't want to do that work. You know, if we were to open another place, I would be reluctant to buy or rent a space, only to discover and, you know, and then equip it with the kitchen and, you know, all the decor and everything, only to find that we couldn't staff that kitchen. And you're never going to know that until a month or so before you open the restaurant, because you don't hire staff months in advance. You hire it shortly before the opening.
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B
So, you know the argument we always hear, oh, Americans will work for the right price. Is that correct? I mean, or is it impossible to find somebody that want to do the kind of work?
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A
The work is very physically demanding, and that's true for both front and back of the house, but especially for back of the house. You know, you're talking about close quarters, lifting a lot of heavy stuff. You're standing on your feet all day, food preparation, sharp knives, flames. It's very demanding on the body. And I think there are a lot of people who just don't want to do that physical kind of work. You know, it's hot. There's a lot of pressure when we're very busy. You know, for all those reasons, I think it's not everybody's cup of tea, right? And I think there are a lot of people who just wouldn't want to do that work at any price.
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B
So if somebody wants to start a restaurant, a small restaurant, let's say, in this environment, what would you. What is advice would you give them?
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A
I would say, first of all, restaurants really have to be your passion, because it is going to be all consuming. It is going to be your life. That's the first thing. And then the second thing I would say is get a partner or partners who have complementary skills to what you know how to do. Because, you know, a lot of people go into this, you know, they've been chefs at other people's restaurants, and that's a great skill to have. You know, you understand the operating side of how a kitchen runs. But you may not be a person who knows anything about finance or tax or. Or accounting or, you know, any of the million other things that you need to be aware of in order to run a successful business. And if you don't have those skills, you need to find somebody who does, because you are going to need it. You're going to need it in house. And you are also going to need, you know, to have a good accounting firm, you're going to need a good lawyer. All the things to make things run smoothly. Or running a restaurant as a business is different than, oh, I know how.
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B
To Cook, by the way, do you own the buildings your restaurants are in, or is it all rental?
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A
We own our flagship in Woodstock. Yes, we bought that building five years ago.
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B
Oh, very good.
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A
Yeah. And I would just make that point about, you know, when you asked about people getting into the restaurant business, I would say that when you are in the restaurant business, you should also be in the real estate business, because the value of your franchise is based on whether you can be in the place that you're in. Right. To a large extent. You know, if you're dependent on a lease and your landlord doesn't renew your lease, you don't have a business. Right. It goes away, and then all you've got is equipment. But if you own your properties and you can continue to operate on an ongoing basis and you control your destiny in that way, you have a very valuable business.
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B
Now that you look back, is there anything you would have done differently before you got in?
- [12:39]
A
You know, I'm not. I'm not sure that there is, actually. You know, it really. It sort of worked out in an almost magical kind of way that Erica and I found each other as business partners because the fit is so good. I couldn't ask for a better business partner. And, you know, we have been through a lot of things in the last 10 years. We've opened a restaurant together. We've been through Covid, which was a whole exercise in itself. We've had a number of challenges along the way that any one of which could have tanked the business.
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B
What was the biggest challenge?
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A
The biggest challenge was probably taking out her business partners, followed by Covid.
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B
I would say, oh, yeah. So what is the big reward?
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A
Well, the big reward is that it is extremely satisfying to feel like you are running a business successfully. I never get tired of running into people or being introduced to people who say, oh, you own Yum Yum. We love Yum Yum. We go all the time. It's just so gratifying. It's hard to explain how gratifying that is. And they'll tell you what their favorite meal is or, you know, whatever. All of that is really, really satisfying. You have a feeling of controlling your own destiny more when you own your own business. Right. You know, the buck stops there. If you screw up, it's on you. If you figure something out that works really well, that's on you too. Right? You know, when I think of the many, many hours I spent in the corporate world going to meetings where in hindsight, you're just going, oh, my God, like, what a Waste of time. Like, you know, corporate initiative or some administrative thing. And we just don't have that. You know, when we have meetings, it's because we really need to have a meeting.
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B
You do. Delicious food. I love the pad Thai, but. And the salad that you have there with a quinoa, I think it is. But my favorite is by far the buns. Those are addictive.
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A
They are addictive.
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B
They're totally addictive.
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A
I'm with you. I think that's probably my favorite thing too. Followed by I have to put in a plug for our burger. Nobody normally thinks of that as Asian cuisine, obviously, but I would put our burger up against anybody's burger. We serve it with spicy mayo and kimchi and it is so juicy and delicious. It is just.
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B
Oh, I'm drooling already.
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A
It's really good.
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B
You mentioned successful business. How do you measure success in your life today? Is it the business making money? Is it the community, your own fulfillment? How do you measure success?
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A
You know, it's really a little bit of all of that. Financial success is sort of, you know, the first obvious metric, right? Have a successful business if you're losing money, right? Like, that is not a sustainable situation. And, you know, we've been fortunate, I think, in that, you know, we run a tight ship. That's something I know how to do, right. I spent years as a banker looking at people's business plans and are they making the money they should be making. So I know how to do that. Constantly looking at ways to tweak, refine, you know, lower costs, improve revenues, you know, whatever the thing is to keep that going. But, you know, the other thing is that it takes a village to do this, right? It's not just, just me and Erica. It's. We have a staff of 50 people, probably.
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B
Wow.
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A
And yeah, and that's a pretty lean staff.
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B
If somebody want to open a small restaurant, I don't know how many sitters, like 20 sits, 20 people, 30 people, something like that. What kind of investment they need. But mostly I'm interested to know and how much money can they actually make in a restaurant like this? Let's say everything works perfectly. They got the staff, they got a good cook and good reviews. How much money can a 20 seat restaurant.
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A
Yeah, 20 seats is a little tough, I have to say. I personally, I would not do a 20 seat restaurant.
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B
What would you do?
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A
But we should probably back up there and say, you know, it depends what your concept is, right? Because the world sort of divides down into, you know, you had very fine Dining, you have the level below that that is excellent, but not completely haute cuisine. Then you have, you know, family restaurants, you have takeout places. You know, there's a whole lot range of thing that you could do, right? And the margins for that business, the cash flow margins are different depending on what it is you do, you know, for. To take an extreme example, if you have a real fine dining restaurant, your margins on that are going to be quite slim for the most part because you're using expensive ingredients, you need a lot of staff, you probably need a very fancy decor, beautiful glassware, all the things. And that does not come cheap. When you look at a place like ours, which is kind of mid range, you know, we're not fast food food, it's a contemporary restaurant. You know, in that range, you know, you can probably run margins in the, you know, 20 to 25%, which is reasonable. I mean, we run with a very lean operation and you know, there are ways to maximize that so that, that works for you. You know, we have a lot of ingredients, for example, that, you know, get used in multiple dishes, you know, so that you have a very efficient use of fewer ingredients. Right. The sort of how much can you make? Question. I know we didn't really finish that. I mean, it really depends. You know, obviously, because we have three that makes a difference, right? Our combined net income is going to be higher than any one place and controlling your costs and whatnot. But I mean, if you're able to run 20, 25% margin on your business, you can make a very comfortable living.
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B
Well, if you'll own seven restaurants, you will make even more money.
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A
And of course, of course, it depends how many partners you have too, right? Like how much is the pie being divided?
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B
What is the biggest challenge in keeping the Yum Yum brand going and maintaining it?
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A
You know, it's an interesting question because, you know, we sort of got to a place, you know, we used to worry about like, you know, a lot of advertising and doing a lot of that kind of thing. I think because we're so established now, I mean, the original Yum Yum opened 15 years ago. We just celebrated our 15th anniversary. And I think because we're in smaller towns, villages, you know, people know who we are, right? I mean, consistency is the absolute cornerstone of any restaurant. It doesn't matter what the concept is. If you can consistently deliver dishes that are the same every time, the quality is high, a pleasant serving staff, it's a pleasant experience, the are consistent, all those things, the level of service is high. And you feel delighted every time. That's what it takes. And, you know, no amount of advertising is going to make up for things if, you know, people get a pad tie and it's different every time they get.
- [19:06]
B
You got to keep consistency what they're.
- [19:07]
A
Expecting to get right or the buns aren't right or whatever it is, something's burnt or, you know, whatever. Keeping that level of consistency is the single most important thing that any restaurant owner can do to be get repeat business. And we rely on repeat business. Right. I mean, we don't have expense account clients. People are choosing to spend their own money with us, so. And they're not going to do that if they don't like the food and don't have a nice time when they come to visit us.
- [19:34]
B
Right, right. Where do you see the business going in the next five years?
- [19:37]
A
If the immigration policies in this country were to change, we would be open to opening other locations. It would be attractive to us, but we have to be confident that we could staff them. So, you know, do I see us changing, you know, adding a different format in there or doing some new thing? Probably not.
- [19:55]
B
Do you love your life as a restaurant co owner?
- [19:57]
A
I do. I actually do. And I feel like I've managed to get a balance in there, but it's hard. It's hard. And it's probably harder for my business partner because she has two children, one of whom is still young and at home. And, you know, that's a lot to deal with when you're also trying to run three restaurants and you're also cooking in those restaurants.
- [20:17]
B
Okay, well, thank you so much.
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A
Thank you.
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B
Good luck and I'll come for a pad thay or let me know. I will. Okay. Bye. Bye.
- [20:28]
A
Take care.
- [20:29]
B
Bye. Bye. That's a wrap for today. Thanks for listening. If Nicole's stories inspired you or made you hungry, who knows? Don't forget to follow us for more real stories, real people and real jobs. See you next week.