Simran Jeet Singh (3:42)

Growing up in the 80s and 90s in South Texas, I was an easy target with my turban and beard and brown skin. And yet the US Was the only home my brothers and I ever really knew. And so I held onto this hope that one day I'd no longer feel the weight of being both hyper visible and invisible. But in 2012, after a white supremacist walked into a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, and opened fire on the worshiping Sikh congregation, I felt that hope begin to splinter. And in the wake of the massacre, it was so painful watching reporters stumble through their descriptions of who Sikhs were and what was happening. In this fog of misinformation, much of the media missed a powerful message from Sikh communities. Nirpo Nirvir. No fear, no hate. Instead of calling for blood or retribution in the aftermath of this violence, Sikh communities in Wisconsin offered up deeply provocative questions that guide me to this day. Where is the room for love in times of suffering? What would it mean for us to see the light, the shared divinity, Vaiguru that connects us all? How might we learn not to be so quick to draw that line of no return?

Chris Duffy (5:03)

Those are some very big and very important questions and we're going to do our best to think about them together with Simran in just a moment after this break. Foreign it's 2025 and if your B2B marketing strategy for the new year doesn't include improving your ad targeting, you know what I'm about to say, right? Your ads can get lost in the noise. LinkedIn ads can help by ensuring your message makes it to the right audience, and that is so key if you are running a business or you are trying to find the best people for the openings in your company. With LinkedIn ads, you can precisely reach professionals who are more likely to find your ad relevant. Stand out with LinkedIn ads and start converting your B2B audience into high quality leads. Today you will have direct access to and build relationships with decision makers. A billion members, 130 million decision makers. I know as a small business owner I have to be on LinkedIn because that's where everyone's at. And if you are trying to propel your B2B business in 2025, what better place to be than LinkedIn? 79% of B2B content marketers said LinkedIn produces the best results for paid media, go where the best is. Start converting your B2B audience into high quality leads today. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com TedAudio to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com TedAudio and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be To Be hey there Ryan Reynolds here. It's a new year and you know what that means.

Simran Jeet Singh (6:51)

No, not the diet resolutions.

Chris Duffy (6:53)

A way for us all to try.

Simran Jeet Singh (6:54)

And do a little bit better than.

Chris Duffy (6:55)

We did last year. And my resolution, unlike Big Wireless, is to not be a raging and raise the price of wireless on you every chance I get. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 per month new customers on first three month plan only taxes and fees extra Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited cementmobile.com for details over the past 75 years, more than 10,000 chemicals have entered our food supply, but the EU allows just 300 additives. At Thrive Market, we prioritize quality, banning over 1,000 ingredients found in conventional grocery stores. Our Healthy Swap Scanner helps you find better versions of your pantry essentials without the junk dyes or fillers and everything is delivered right to your doorstep. So shop at a grocery store that actually cares about your health. @thrivemarket.com getstarted for 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift. Today we're talking with Simranjit Singh about his work as a professor of history, his research on religion, and the lessons that he shares from the Sikh faith.

Simran Jeet Singh (8:01)

Hi, I'm Simranjit Singh. I'm a writer and a professor, and I wrote a book called the Light We How Sikh Wisdom Can Transform youm Life.

Chris Duffy (8:09)

I loved your book. I thought it was really well written and interesting and so helpful and useful. So let me just start with this, which is why should everyone learn the wisdom of Sikh wisdom, and what is it that it can do that people can put into their lives?

Simran Jeet Singh (8:28)

It's a funny question. I mean, it's a funny question I have to answer in part because I don't see myself as somebody who's a missionizer or proselytizer. And I don't. I didn't even know. I'm a professor of religion and I practice religion. I don't really care if people follow my religion or another one or anyone. Right. It's like, that's not the point. But I think what really kind of started to stand out to me when I was writing this book and actually really like, part of the impetus for this book was seeing how much people were struggling with how hard life can be and recognizing that because of this tradition that I grew up in, I had access to some answers that it seemed like other people didn't. You know, we live in a culture where we don't always have ways of thinking about or even talking about some of life's toughest questions. And some of these questions are like, everyday problems, like, you know, how do we live with people who are different from us? Or how do we deal with people's assumptions about us? Or even, even, like, how do we think about our own self worth without falling into the trap of, you know, self centeredness or egotism? And so, like, these kinds of things, which I found really serving me, especially in my 30s, as we were looking at, you know, a global pandemic and looking at political polarization. And everyone was so angry and frustrated and hurt, and I was, too. But it seemed like there were some teachings that really helped me through those moments. And I really felt a desire to help other people find some solace during some times of real darkness.

Chris Duffy (10:05)

That really resonates with me, I think. I don't really care about what you believe to other people. I'm not trying to convince people to believe something, especially if they don't want to. But I have thought about how, for all the really good reasons why people have moved away from organized religion, for all the, like, abuses and prejudice and all of that, I get why people have pushed away, but it does seem like there hasn't really been something that has filled the void of making meaning of hard things and purpose in life and finding community and traditions and things to fall back on. And not that those can't happen outside of religion, but I just feel like, at least in my world, the people who I interact with, if they don't have a religious tradition, I think it's often hard to find what is the secular version of those.

Simran Jeet Singh (10:53)

I think that's right. Even for those of us who think about religion and try to practice it, even there, it can feel really meaningless sometimes, right? Like, you can fall into a certain kind of rhythm where you're just kind of doing the thing and fall in love with the idea of religion and religious practice without really thinking about how to apply the teachings in your life. That's in some ways, like, I'm really turned off by that approach because we see how hurtful it can be if we think about, you know, fundamentalist readings of religion. You know, that's some of the ugliest forms of humanity. So on the one hand, I get why people turn away from religion. I also don't push anyone towards religion itself. But what I found is that there's versions of this in every kind of ideology. There are ways that you can learn to engage with these teachings that can really enrich your life and can help you navigate the complexity. And I think that, to me, is like, what's so powerful? Like, in our country now? We so often are taught to look at things through a lens of black and white, right? And that's like, is it good or bad? Do we like it or do we not like it? Is it Democrat Republic? I mean, over and over again, it's these dichotomies. And to me, what religion unlocks is, how do you live in the gray, recognizing that life is gray. And it's not always easy to know what the answers are. And sometimes, you know, you take these principles of, you know, compassion or service, and you apply those, and that helps you figure out, well, okay, this is how I want to deal with this situation where there is no easy answer.

Chris Duffy (12:34)

I want to read something from your book, from the Light We Give. There's this moment where you are talking about how growing up, your family in South Texas, in San Antonio, was one of the only Sikh families in the area. And that Your mom would come to your school to give presentations on Punjabi and Sikh culture, and so I'm just going to read this here. She would lead us in singing while playing the harmonium and tabla, share samples of home cooked Punjabi food, and even show how we wrap our hair in our turbans. As we got older, we began leading these sessions with her and eventually on our own. I felt a tinge of ambivalence with each presentation, and I feel the same even now as I deliver them for my own kids. When families like mine come in to offer cultural awareness programs, it's a reminder that children would not learn about people like us unless we made the effort to open ourselves up. Presentations like these are a reflection of how much immigrants do to assuage xenophobia. My parents came to seek refuge in the US and in a bid to ensure their children's safety, they go out of their way to share their culture as if to say, please don't fear or harm us. We're really very nice. That I thought was a really powerful passage. And the reason I read it is the idea that you feel ambivalence when you think about your parents having to do that and yet that you still do that for your own kids. And then to ask you about when you do work, like writing a book that is about Sikh wisdom and Sikh culture and when even on a show like this, in this very episode. Right. I'm just curious to hear, like, what that ambivalence is for you and why you still think it's important, how you feel about it, because I think that's a complicated thing.

Simran Jeet Singh (14:15)

I haven't thought about that passage in some time. And actually this morning, literally my wife and I were coordinating with our daughter's teachers, set up these presentations. So it's so interesting to hear that today. As a parent now, I understand, like, all of these are just excuses to go hang out with your kids in their school to snoop on the teachers and see if you like them and which kids sit with you and all that stuff. Right. I realize now that's really the undercurrent, but that feeling of ambivalence is still there. And the awareness that if we didn't do it, no one would is also still there. And. And so what do you do in a culture where you recognize that no one knows who you are and no one will know and that ignorance can lead to all kinds of violence. I mean, literal physical violence that, that I've experienced and people in my family have felt and knowing that, you know we would be safer if people knew who we were. And on the other hand, recognizing that it's not really fair that our world is structured and our country is structured in such a way that certain people have to explain themselves in order to find safety. And, you know, I think for a lot of people, that unfairness of it outweighs the need for safety. And I'm hearing more and more people being like, I don't have to justify my existence here, and why should I, like, just deal with it and learn to see my humanity and get over your own xenophobia or your bias or whatever it is. And I get that. And it feels like it's born out of a frustration that's very familiar to me. I have found it. It's almost a way of asserting my own agency. I live in this country where so often I'm put in a position where I have to react to people's racism and to have the opportunity to say, actually, I'm going to be proactive about it. Like, I'm not going to fall into the reactionary mode, which depends on your moods, or whatever happens to me on the street. It's more like, you know, I'm going to. I'm going to have some control over it. And I realize that the control is very minimal. And, you know, is talking to my daughter's third grade class about a Punjabi festival going to resolve bias and racism in this country? Like, of course not. But it is. It does make me feel like I'm making a difference within a community that I care about and also creating safety for my kids in a context where, you know, being different in this country can be really hard. And I grew up with that, too. And so those are the kinds of things that I'm grappling with.

Chris Duffy (16:55)

I. I think reading your book, one thing that I was struck by is I didn't think that I knew a lot about what it meant to be a Sikh, but I thought I knew a little. And then I realized, because you write it in your book, that I was quite literally even saying the word wrong. Right? Like, I was like, oh, Sikh and Sikhism. And you talk about how both of those are kind of not actually the correct way and come from a colonial understanding of the language. So I think there's this basic part where it was a little bit humbling for me, but I wanted to be humbled in that way. And all this is to lead to. Noor, who is one of the producers on this show, said in the prep for this episode, she said that you know, I'm sick, and I actually really never meet anyone who knows anything about the religion. And this is her words. I'm genuinely curious why no one has ever googled it, right? Because, like, they. We literally could just google these answers. And yet here you are having to, like, do interviews and write a book for people to find this information out.

Simran Jeet Singh (17:50)

I've heard over and over from people in the Sikh community who were like, what the hell, right? We're the world's fifth largest religion. You know, there are millions of us all around the world. We've had prominent global positions in government and, you know, sports and business and so on. And so, like, what is. And we're so visible, right? Like, in our community, many of the people wear turbines and have beards. And so what is all of this about? And I have a hypothesis here, we are not a tradition that goes out and tries to convert people or even to advertise ourselves and say, here is who we are. And part of that comes from this core belief which I find really compelling and beautiful, which is you don't have to be of a certain tribe or a certain worldview or believe in a certain thing in order to achieve the goal of life. And that's a very different approach to religion than we get from a lot of traditions, right? Like, essentially, the teaching in Sikhism is the goal in life is to achieve love, to live a life of love. And you can do that from wherever you are, and you don't have to follow our philosophy in order to live a life of love. And, you know, we celebrate people as enlightened beings who come from different traditions, even within our own scripture. And I think what that opens up for me is, you know, in this sort of Western colonial understanding of religion, which is, like, it's a competition. Like, mine has to be better than yours for mine to be legit. Like, it's kind of how we think about everything, right? Politics, sports. Like, my wife is a big Bills fan, and we're on Monday Night Football the other night, and like, these, all these fans were getting in fights with each other, not because they hated the other team, but because they love their own team and the nature of their love required them to be better than others. You know, it's just like, do we need to find our own self worth on the basis of denigrating other people? Like, we see that in politics, and it's so gross. And so part of what we see in the Sikh tradition that I find beautiful and other traditions have versions of this too, is this openness to love as the thing that binds us together as people also then means that we don't have this political history of colonizing or converting, and then nobody ends up knowing about us because we're not out there telling them our story. And just the last piece of it is, to me, as part of this hypothesis is what we believe is you live a life of service and the world is bigger than you. So, anyway, this is all sort of my working theory for why people don't know about who Sikhs are. And I think there's something really that I'm really attracted to by that worldview. And also the flip side of that coin is, like, there's real danger that comes with not being known, especially in a country and in a world where being unknown or being rendered invisible can be really dangerous.

Chris Duffy (20:54)

So I imagine many people who are listening to this, whether they are themselves sick or are from another community where maybe they are visibly not part of the majority, wherever they live, are managing something similar. So I'm curious what advice you have for people who are managing that and how you did it when you were younger and how you've managed that now as an adult, whether it's changed or you've learned anything about how to manage those that work.

Simran Jeet Singh (21:23)

Yeah, honest answer from me is that there is no right answer. And, you know, if somebody comes in being genuinely curious, as you were describing, or if somebody comes in hateful and angry, like, that alone determines a very different kind of response. But then there's also other questions, as everyone listening will know. Like, it depends on context, right? Like, are you in a place where it's safe? Are you. Do you have time? Like, if I'm out with my family, I might react very differently than if I'm on my own. And if I'm out for a run and I don't want to stop my run, like, all these factors are there. And I think, you know, what I've learned is appreciate the context and also give yourself grace. Last night, my neighbor was talking about how her other neighbor was accusing her of not liking her because she's Turkish. And my neighbor was so offended, and she was pretty upset. And we were talking about it, and I was like, you know, she was like, how do you deal with this stuff when people make assumptions about you? And I was like, you know, the best thing that I've learned is, like, to remember that oftentimes their assumptions have less to do with you and more to do with them. It's so easy to take these kinds of criticisms or assumptions personally. Because they do affect us, right? Like, I'm talking about two neighbors who have to live next to each other. Like, how does it not feel personal? But try and take your ego out of it and say, like, okay, this isn't actually about me. It's about this other person. And if the conditions are right and I'm feeling up for it, then I'll be like, okay, let me. Let me help this other person. And it brings it back to service as opposed to obligation. And those two things are very different. And right now, like, in our society, we're often thinking about microaggressions and having to explain who we are and the burden of responsibility and who that should be on. And I get all of that conversation, and I'm in agreement with a lot of it in terms of where we're landing. What I would offer is if you can think in some cases about these moments as being opportunities to connect with people and to serve them, that's a very different kind of experience. One that does not feel heavy and obligatory, but one that actually feels liberating in some ways. And so that that mindset has really helped me in those kinds of moments.

Chris Duffy (23:39)

We'll be right back in just a moment. Over the past 75 years, more than 10,000 chemicals have entered our food supply, but the EU allows just 300 additives. At Thrive Market, we prioritize quality, banning over 1,000 ingredients found in conventional grocery stores. Our Healthy Swap scanner helps you find better versions of your pantry essentials without the junk dyes or fillers. And everything is delivered right to your doorstep. So shop at a grocery store that actually cares about your health. @thrivemarket.com getstarted for 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift.

Simran Jeet Singh (24:24)

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.

Chris Duffy (24:38)

Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be to be Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out procrastination, Putting it off, Kicking the can down the road in plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done Out Carpet in the bathroom. Like why in knowing what to do when to do it and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download thumbtack today and we are back. Today we're talking with Simranjit Singh, author of the Light We How Sick Wisdom Can Transform youm Life. You have a lot of very funny examples in the book of someone saying something ignorant to you or to someone in your family, and then coming up with just a perfectly scripted one liner and saying it back to them. What role can humor or laughter play in changing the tone and the tenor of your experience with these types of things?

Simran Jeet Singh (25:49)

Humor, I mean, as you're describing, it was a tool that we learned early to really negotiate tense situations. And a lot of it for my brothers and me was like, here is how to deal with pain. Like, sometimes with really ugly situations, like, if somebody says something hateful to you or denies you service, it sucks. And especially when you're a kid, and to be able to joke about it changes the tenor of that experience. And so humor was a really valuable tool. And I would say over time, what I've realized is humor also unlocks. It unlocks people's armor, right? It disarms them and opens them up to, like. I mean, especially from somebody who's visibly religious. Like, when people see my turban and my beard, they're like, oh, that guy's hardcore, right? Like, that guy must be serious. And for me to make a joke or like a pop culture reference, they're like, oh, he's like, it's unexpected. And then, like, whatever the punchline is, they're like, oh, this guy's a person.

Chris Duffy (26:57)

Well, one example of this that you give in the book that I laughed out loud at is when someone says to you, go back to where you came from. Kind of like the classic racist trope. And you lean really heavily into your Texas accent, which I don't want to force you to do unless you want to. But I thought that was so funny, the way you respond when someone says, go back to where you came from.

Simran Jeet Singh (27:17)

Yeah, y'all want me to go back to Texas? It's like, yeah, that was like, our accent my brothers and me would throw around all the time. And what I think humor does sometimes in that example, too, the easy answer is like, hey, that's messed up. Why would you say that? But, like, how is somebody going to respond when they say that? They're going to be like. They're going to double down and be like, yeah, but you shouldn't be here. I mean, how many times has that happened to me? I'm in dozens. But it's a very different reaction when you can show someone how absurd their comment is. And so, like, the text asset hits hard and I'm like, I'm from San Antonio. You want me to. Why do you want me to go back to San Antonio? And they're like, oh, I didn't realize that's what I was saying. And of course, like, for some people, that's not what they really mean, and they're going to still go hard. But for some people, it's like a moment to, like, that punchline requires a moment of reflection. And that moment of reflection can reveal something about their own internal dissonance and racism. And so, yeah, humor, I found, is, in a lot of cases, a much more effective tool. Not just as a survival tactic for me and self entertainment and all that stuff, but also an effective way of communicating back to people.

Chris Duffy (28:31)

There's a moment in the book where you're at a water park with your family and someone comes up to your brother and sees his turban and says, are you a genie? And he says, yeah, and I'm going to make your racist ass disappear. And moments like that one, just like, great. Love that great line. But I just want to say I really feel like there's a cinematic nature to your work and the way you write. And I'm like, there is definitely like a TV show or a movie or some sort of adaptation of this to be made that would be really hilarious and relatable and great. I just really believe that as someone who works in TV and has written.

Simran Jeet Singh (29:04)

Stuff that's like a dream of mine. And, like, it's so easy to say that to anyone, right? Like, you could say something with that tone of language to anyone, but, like, part of why that story worked is because he was on a basketball court in a park where we were playing pickup. And so, like, it was effective because my brother was speaking the language of the people in that context. It's like a mic drop moment. And all the guys are like, oh. And they, like, surround my brother and they're like, he got you. And then, like, it, like, totally broke the ice, right? And, like, it's cinematic in that it's this, like, triumphant moment where people come together and it doesn't always work out that way. Right.

Chris Duffy (29:42)

One of the reasons why the idea of, like, the pop culture or entertainment representation of your work is in my head is because I was also thinking as I was reading this that there's a lot of talk in culture about the importance of representation and I think that many people, certainly me included, are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that that's important. But this is actually why representation is so important, is because people have misrepresented identity and that is affecting your day to day life, right? Like the idea that a turban, a visible thing that you wear every day, that is associated with terrorism, it's not like random people just made that up. Like, that comes from what they are consuming in media. And that media is not at all accurate to like, ideologies or even religions, right? Like the religious affiliation of what the turban means. So it feels like there's a lot of misguided, prejudiced media that has kind of seeped in. And that is, that then leads to regular people having to do this work in their life because it hasn't been undone in the pop culture version that many people are seeing.

Simran Jeet Singh (30:51)

Totally. That's so true. And I would say, like, the most intuitive version of dealing with that from a misrepresentation standpoint is to be like, hey, everyone, a turbine is not actually a signal of terrorism. Right? That's typically what we do. And like, I could do that. And in some ways, like, I end up having to do that. You know, a lot of times I'm like, you know, hey, can you come do this interview on CNN and talk about, you know, this hate crime when somebody was attacked because somebody thought they were a terrorist and can you explain why you're not a terrorist? And like, I do that for the reasons we were describing before. Like, there's safety in it, there's value to that for my community. And also it's so frustrating to be stuck in that cycle where like, the only thing that I can talk about and the only time people ever want to talk to me or are interested in me is like, through this victim narrative, right? And so what does it, what does it do? Like, even if I'm saying, hey, I'm not a terrorist, like, it's still so dehumanizing to be in a world where the only times people care about me is when that happens. And so part of what I'm really interested in doing, and I appreciate your note on, like, the importance of representation, the depth of representation is like, how do we get out of that constant cycle and say, like, oh, this is a real person who, by the way, like, you wouldn't expect it by looking at him, but he likes sports or he has a family. I mean, one of the funniest things that I observed when I had my. My two daughters were born was like, I would be pushing the stroller down the streets of New York City where, like, nobody makes eye contact with you. Right? Like, it's New York, but, like, it's home. It's where we've lived for a long time now. And, like, people would, like, smile at me and wave at me. And, like, I was like, what is going on? And I was like, oh, they see me as, like, a human being because I have a baby. Like, I'm a father. And so, like, what does it take to actually undo, as you're saying? Like, how do you undo some of that? Like, I don't think it's just by denying the misrepresentation. It's actually, like, bringing out the full human lives of people, especially those that we have certain stereotypes about.

Chris Duffy (33:01)

Let's talk about a couple of the specific Sikh beliefs and philosophies that you highlight in your work. One of them is you talk about Charthi Kala.

Simran Jeet Singh (33:10)

Yeah, Charthikala. Yeah, Charthi Kala.

Chris Duffy (33:14)

Can you tell us a bit about that and how that plays out in your life and in your experience of the world?

Simran Jeet Singh (33:20)

The term chardikula refers to eternal optimism. And it comes at the end of a prayer that we offer, usually collectively. And, you know, with my kids, we do this every morning before they go to school. The request is, please ensure eternal optimism, high spirits, and the upliftment of all humanity. Sarbad Dapala. And those two things go in hand. And I found this to be such a powerful practice. A simple story that I can sort of share with you is after 9 11, when, you know, there was racist backlash in this country and my family was locked up at home, we didn't leave the house for a few days, and it felt really dark, and we felt really pessimistic. I mean, in the way that we did again with the pandemic and all sorts of fires that are going on in our world right now, it's so easy feel hopeless. And my dad, as I was walking down one day, he was like, aren't we so lucky? And I'm like, what are you talking about? The world feels pretty crappy right now. He's like, but your neighbors have been coming by and delivering groceries and bringing meals for us, and your teammates and your teachers have been checking in to see if you're okay. We're so lucky. What I learned then, and it's sort of tied at Chardikala, is that there always is goodness around us. Like, there's always positivity around us, even when things feel hopeless and we just have to open up our eyes to it. And if we can do that, the goodness of the people around us and the light and the world around us can really inspire us in ways that feel almost impossible, like in moments right now. So it's this sort of daily reminder of eternal optimism. Like, it's not a sugar coating or a silver lining. It's like, hey, develop this practice of seeing the good around you. That's what it's meant for me.

Chris Duffy (35:07)

You also talk in the book about a practice that you do of just walking the streets of New York and just looking for each small act of kindness that people do. Which that really struck me because this is something I really struggle with.

Simran Jeet Singh (35:19)

Yeah, no, totally. And I mean, I'll be honest and say, like, I find myself turning off the news too and like turning off my phone and being like, I don't want to open my social media today because what shitstorm is going to be on? Like, I don't know. But like, it's also true that like, we're living in an environment where we're bombarded with negativity, right? With news and social media and so on. And so what does it look like for us to have a practice that does the opposite? And part of my thinking around this practice that you're describing is that the bombardment comes from a macro level, right? And it's almost abstract. It's like it's not really in our daily life, but we know about it and it's happening in the world around us. And actually like, this is new for the human brain to be absorbing all of this overwhelming information. And so I started to just look locally and within community and seeing like, hey, what outcome would there be if I just watched people? Like, are people good or bad? I don't know. And so if you just watch them, I've had this consistent experience whenever I've done this that like, people are really good to each other. And I mean, even in New York where the assumption is like, people suck and they don't take care of each other, like they really do. And like that really surprised me when I started to notice in a really good way where I started to feel more trust and hope in the people around me, which it sounds almost cliche, but like, trust is. It's this feeling you have in one another where you can have hope, right? Because you know that people will be there for you in hard times and you know that people mean well and even if you disagree with them, you they're still kind hearted, right? Like all these things that we don't necessarily feel right now we can sort of inculcate again with this practice.

Chris Duffy (37:10)

It also makes me think about another big part of the Sikh religion, which is service, or seva.

Simran Jeet Singh (37:16)

Siva is, you know, one of the. I find one of the most attractive parts of Sikh philosophy. The tradition is. And the learning of the tradition is that you start doing seva as a child, right? So, like, even when you're at the place of worship, ecradvara, like you are passing out napkins, the way we describe it is this term, van chakna, which means you give and then you partake. And that's supposed to be something that's every aspect of your life. And it's not that you have to abstain from partaking or deny yourself the enjoyment in life, but, like, you also have to think about other people before you think about yourself. And so seva is. It's a practice that you can engage to remind yourself that the world is bigger than you and your ego is misguiding you. And so by serving others, you are reinforcing this idea and diminishing your ego through practice. And that is ultimately what leads to a more loving way of life.

Chris Duffy (38:14)

Do the intentions matter? Right. Is it okay if we are helping people not because we're truly selfless, but because we're supposed to or because it makes us feel like a good person to do? What do you think about that?

Simran Jeet Singh (38:26)

Yeah, it is like a classic paradox. And I think part of the basis of that paradox relies on a Western understanding of service, which is, one is to reduce people's suffering because people need it, and the other one is because I have privilege. And if I have privilege, then I have a responsibility. And I think both of those are true. At least they ring true for me. But it takes the outlook. There is very much based on an understanding of service as being only for the other person. Right? Like, that is, I'm serving you because it's going to transform you and it's going to transform society. If we are to understand service as a spiritual practice and recognizing that it can have a transformative experience or transformative impact on you as a person, right. It can change you from the inside, which I think we already know in our hearts, by the way, because we've all experienced it in some way, like when we serve people, we know what it does to us in our hearts. Like that feeling of, you know, giving someone to something who needs it, right? It might be a meal or it might be a jacket, right? Like, it changes us. And so if we can see service as something that is also meant to help us as we're helping others, something that transforms us as we're transforming society, then I think absolutely the intention really matters because it's not really going to bring you satisfaction or joy internally if you're not experiencing that transformation.

Chris Duffy (39:59)

The idea of service changing us as well and also being that we all need purpose in our lives, that's like a fundamental need for us is to have an effect on the world and others positively.

Simran Jeet Singh (40:12)

Yeah. If you look at some of the research on the loneliness epidemic, mental health crisis, a lot of this is tied to a lack of purpose and a feeling that people have. What's the point of trying if I can't fix all the world's problems? And it feels so burdensome? And so part of what I'm starting to understand is if our ultimate happiness relies on a perfect world, then we might as well give up, right? Like the world is never going to be perfect, but if we understand with some humility, right, like we can do what we can from where we are and that in doing so we can reduce people's suffering and we can also reduce our own suffering through service, like that is a beautiful outcome and it's not perfection, but like, what is this expectation that perfection is even achievable? I don't know where that comes from. So I really find liberation in letting go of this idea of perfection as a goal or even a pursuit and instead saying, I'm going to use this tool as a way to bring myself happiness through internal transformation.

Chris Duffy (41:22)

Simran, it has been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for being on the show and thank you for the work that you do.

Simran Jeet Singh (41:28)

Same. Thanks Chris. This was awesome.

Chris Duffy (41:33)

That is it for this episode of how to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Simranjit Singh. His book is called the Light We Give and his podcast is the Wisdom and Practice Podcast. I am your host, Chris Duffy and you can find more from me, including my weekly newsletter and information about my live shows@chrisduffycomedy.com how to be a Better Human is put together by a team who would never make an offensive comment at a water park. On the TED side we've got Daniela Belarazzo, Banban Cheng, Chloe Shasha Brooks, Lainey Lott, Antonio Ley and Joseph De Bruyne. This episode was fact checked by Julia Dickerson and Matthias Salas. On the PRX side we we've got a group of folks who, while I acknowledge that perfection is impossible in this lifetime. They also do come pretty darn close. Morgan Flannery Norgill, Maggie Goreville, Patrick Grant, and Jocelyn Gonzalez. And of course we wouldn't exist as a show without you, our listeners. So thank you for listening to how to Be a Better Human. You can listen on Amazon Music or just ask Alexa Play how to Be a Better Human on Amazon Music. Wherever you are listening, please share this episode with a friend or a family member who you think would enjoy it. We so so so appreciate that it gets us out to new people and we will be back next week with even more how to Be a Better Human. Thanks again for listening and take care. Renew your health and wellness purpose this new year with the Reset on Alo Moves, a curated weekly program of Pilates, strength and step goals to kickstart your fitness journey.

Simran Jeet Singh (43:04)

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Chris Duffy (43:06)

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Simran Jeet Singh (43:31)

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Chris Duffy (43:37)

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Simran Jeet Singh (43:39)

Sheer thrill of it.

Chris Duffy (43:41)

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Simran Jeet Singh (44:02)

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