How Texas became America’s biggest producer of wind energy (from Speed & Scale)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: How Texas Became America’s Biggest Producer of Wind Energy

Podcast: How to Be a Better Human (from Speed & Scale)
Hosts: Anjali Grover & Ryan Panchatsram (with guest Pat Wood)
Original Air Date: October 16, 2025
Relevant Timestamps Below

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the unexpected rise of Texas as America's leader in wind energy. Hosts Anjali Grover and Ryan Panchatsram explore how a state known for oil and gas became a pioneer in renewable power by making pragmatic, data-driven policy choices. With insights from Pat Wood—former head of the Texas Public Utility Commission—they uncover the bipartisan, business-driven steps that led Texas to become “deep red turned a shade of green.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The 2021 Texas Power Crisis and Perceptions of Renewable Energy

• Setting the Stage (03:17-06:56)
  • The 2021 Texas winter storm caused mass blackouts.
  • Despite the grid being powered mostly by natural gas, politicians singled out wind energy as the culprit when some turbines froze.
  • Natural gas plants' equipment failed in the cold, not wind, but renewables became a political scapegoat.
  • Despite political backlash, anti-renewable bills largely failed because wind energy had become big business in Texas.

Memorable Quote:
"Natural gas let us down."
— Anjali Grover (04:35)

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2. Why and How Texas Became #1 in U.S. Wind Energy

• Texas Turns “Green” (06:56-07:56)

  • Texas produces the most wind energy in the U.S., supplying about 25% of its electricity grid.

• Pat Wood’s Journey From Oil Roots to Wind Advocate (07:56-10:58)

  • Pat Wood grew up in oil country and assumed oil was inevitable in Texas.
  • Appointed by then-Governor George W. Bush, Wood was initially skeptical of renewables.
  • Bush famously told him:

    “Hey, Wood. Yes, sir. We like wind … now go get smart on it.”
    — George W. Bush via Pat Wood (10:36)

• Citizen Engagement Through Deliberative Polling (11:11-13:49)

  • Texas law required utilities to consult customers, leading to "deliberative polling."
  • Representative sample of Texans across ages and ideologies discussed energy issues deeply.
  • Takeaway: Texans overwhelmingly supported energy efficiency and renewables after learning the facts.
  • Notable story of “Smokin’ Jim” — an older man whose directness captured native support:

    “Pat, we gotta clean up the goddamn air. It needs to be cleaned up and we need to get more of this renewable energy.”
    — Pat Wood recalling a citizen (13:24)

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3. Transforming Policy into Action

• Passing the Landmark Energy Bill (15:00-16:27)

  • With polling results supporting renewables, Pat Wood and Governor Bush included energy efficiency and renewables into Senate Bill 7 in 1999.
  • The “Renewable Portfolio Standard” set a goal: add 2,000 megawatts of renewables in 10 years—passed before California or New York had similar statutes.

• Governor Bush’s Motivations (16:33-17:32)

  • Bush grew up in windy Midland and recognized Texas’s unique wind resources.
  • Political pragmatism: compromise between a Republican Senate and a Democratic House enabled middle-ground achievements in multiple policy fields—including energy.

• Leveling the Playing Field (17:32-18:41)

  • For Pat Wood, supporting renewables wasn’t about being “virtuous”—it was fairness and letting a new industry compete.

    “I cared about it because … a new technology that was being kind of elbowed to the side by the big gas, big coal, and nuke in the traditional utilities. … We invite them to the party... And boy, did they ever win.”
    — Pat Wood (17:38-18:41)

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4. Scaling Up: Infrastructure & Transmission

• Making Wind Energy Work (18:41-21:39)

  • Wind saw exponential growth after 2001, favored due to vast land, minimal regulatory hurdles, and Texas’s “If you build it, they will come” approach.

  • Texas invested $7 billion in new transmission lines (“Field of Dreams” project) to connect remote windy regions to urban centers.

  • The investment (about $300 per Texan) paid off many times over—lower energy bills, business incentives, and better air.

    “The return by having lower cost renewable electricity on our grid would pay for the $7 billion investment five times over in 10 years. So that’s like putting down a nickel to get a quarter.”
    — Pat Wood (22:06)

• Planning, Not Politics (21:49-23:09)

  • Key to success: forward-thinking planning and bipartisan acceptance.

  • Renewables were framed as a business and consumer benefit—not a partisan stance.

    “It was very non ideological… At the beginning, it was better for the wallet. And oh by the way, it happened to be better for the air.”
    — Pat Wood (22:06-23:00)

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5. Lessons & Legacy

• Not Activism, Just Fairness (23:12-26:14)

  • Pat Wood, despite overseeing the largest clean energy deployment, doesn’t identify as a “climate activist.”

  • His drive came from a background of seeking fairness, influenced by his experience witnessing desegregation and learning social justice at home and church.

    “I think all the things that I tried to do as a regulator that are having, I think, beneficial impact today derived from the fact that I was hell bent to implement the statute that required non discrimination. And that's what got us where we are today.”
    — Pat Wood (25:35-26:14)

• Bipartisan and Pragmatic Success (26:14-28:31)

  • The Texas wind story surprises even climate experts: a Republican state, a Republican governor—beat California to clean energy policy.

  • Clean energy's mainstream acceptance grew because it made economic sense and became rooted before partisanship heightened.

    “Clean energy is both a smart business decision and a smart climate decision.”
    — Anjali Grover (28:26)

• Lasting Impact & Replicability (28:31-28:55)

  • Texas’s approach is simple:
    1. Add renewables
    2. Build transmission infrastructure
    3. Find the best locations and connect them—other states can copy this.
  • 32 states now have similar standards; Texas was a template.

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6. Limits & The Road Ahead

• Not the Whole Climate Solution (27:45-28:26)

  • Texas increased wind, slashing grid emissions by over a quarter, even as its population rose.

  • Oil and gas production and industrial CO2 are still growing—more work is needed on transportation and other sectors.

    “At the end of the day, this is a story about opportunity... clean energy was too profitable to go away.”
    — Ryan Panchatsram (27:45-28:26)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Pat Wood on energy’s roots and Texas pride:
  "Renewable energy's here. It's Texan. It's flowing from God's breath and his shining off his face that's coming to us for free. Aren't we smart enough to take something free and do something good with it?"
  (14:04)

• Ryan’s realization:
  "This totally shatters every stereotype or preconception of where clean energy gets deployed the best."
  (26:31)

• Anjali’s perspective:
  "It proves, I think, that clean energy is both a smart business decision and a smart climate decision."
  (28:26)

• Pat Wood on historical fairness:
  "We benefit so much more by having a lot of different voices at the table and a lot of different technologies and players around the table. That's what makes us strong."
  (25:00)

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Key Timestamps for Reference

• 03:17 – Power crisis and politics around renewables
• 07:36 – Texas becomes #1 in wind energy
• 08:42 – Pat Wood’s personal story with energy
• 10:36 – Governor Bush’s “We like wind” moment
• 13:24 – “Smokin’ Jim” and Texans' support for renewables
• 16:02 – Senate Bill 7 and the Renewable Portfolio Standard
• 18:50 – Wind and solar boom explained
• 20:17 – Field of Dreams transmission project
• 22:06 – The economics of Texas renewables
• 25:35 – Pat’s ethos: fairness and non-discrimination
• 27:15 – Texas’s grid emissions fall by a quarter
• 28:31 – Other states following Texas’s example

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Tone & Style Recap

Throughout, the episode maintains an upbeat, surprising, and pragmatic tone—punctuated by Texan humor and plain-speak, particularly from Pat Wood. The hosts balance awe at Texas’s achievements with critical questions about longer-term climate goals and equity.

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For Listeners

This episode is revelatory for anyone interested in climate solutions, politics, or Texas history. It offers a detailed, hopeful, and practical look at how big climate wins are possible—and how sometimes, the most unlikely places can lead the way.

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Transcript

[Madupa Akinola]

This episode is sponsored by Visit Philadelphia. Philadelphia isn't just the birthplace of democracy, it's where big ideas still take center stage. TED and Visit Philadelphia are teaming up on a special series exploring what democracy looks like today through live events, personal stories, and conversations that reflect the power of community. Want to hear more and maybe be part of what's next? Visit visitphilly.comted to learn more. That's visitphilly.com Ted hi, I'm Madupa Akinola.

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[Madupa Akinola]

Hi listeners, we want to share something special today. It's an episode from ted's newest podcast, Speed and Scale. Something we always think about on our show is how to be a better human when the planet is facing an existential climate crisis. This show, Speed and Scale is not your average climate podcast. Anjali Grover and Ryan Panchathram are sharing the stories of climate solutions that are actually working right now to address the climate crisis. They go beyond the hey you individual consumer, have you heard of recycling beat? We always hear and instead talk about the big ideas that scale up to change how our entire world works. We think this podcast can leave you feeling kind of hopeful. So we hope you enjoy this episode. And if you do enjoy it, subscribe to Speed and Scale wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Hey, Anjali.

[Anjali Grover]

Hi, Ryn.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Do you remember when Texas had that really bad storm a few years ago?

[Anjali Grover]

I think so. Remind me what happened.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

You know, it was 2021, and I remember, I remember it so vividly because I was calling friends who lived in Houston and they'd lost power. And what was crazy, Ang, is they weren't alone. Millions of other people had lost power.

[Pat Wood]

I guess Texas is having blackouts because of how cold it is, which right now I think it's 7 degrees.

[Financial Times Sponsor Voice / Sherrell Dorsey]

I just woke up to a cold house because we have no power.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

It's Monday morning and things like in.

[Financial Times Sponsor Voice / Sherrell Dorsey]

The twenties and then tomorrow supposed to be worse.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

When the power went out, people were really angry and they wanted to find out why it happened and especially who was at fault. And it's important to know that Texas is powered mostly by natural gas. And of course it's got solar and wind and nuclear. But natural gas is the bullet, bulk of it. But Texas Republicans, including Governor Abbott, saw this as an opportunity to single out renewables as the cause for these blackouts. Some wind turbines went offline and suddenly wind energy became the bad guy. When in fact, the natural gas plants which provided most of Texas's electricity weren't built to withstand the cold and their equipment froze. So when they got hit, the grid got hit big time.

[Anjali Grover]

So natural gas let us down.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

That's right. But Republicans jumped on this opportunity to introduce a bunch of anti renewable bills. But guess what? Almost none of them passed.

[Anjali Grover]

Okay, how come?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Well, because wind is big business in Texas. About a quarter is powered by wind. Anjali, Texas has the largest amount of wind energy in the United States.

[Anjali Grover]

Wow, 25% of their grid is powered by wind. How did that happen?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Well, Ange, just wait. You're going to love this story. Hi, everyone, I'm Ryan Panchatsram.

[Anjali Grover]

And I'm Anjuli Grover. Welcome to Speed and Scale, a podcast from Ted. This is the show where we focus on the best strategies to tackle climate change. We know the headlines are scary. We know climate change can feel overwhelming. This is the show that cuts through the fear to face things head on.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

We'll dig into the obstacles we're up against. We'll celebrate the wins, and we'll talk to people in unexpected places, all while focusing on the things that we can speed up and scale up.

[Anjali Grover]

Speaking of which, in 2021, we helped write the book Speed and Scale. It lays out an action plan for solving our climate crisis. We spoke to a bunch of people, including climate experts and industry leaders. We wanted people to hear what we were hearing, that there's still opportunities out there to draw down emissions.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

And for a quick explainer, when we say emissions, we're talking about greenhouse gases that trap heat in our atmosphere. Gases like carbon, methane, and nitrous oxide. They come from a variety of sources, like driving your car or growing the food you eat. And they're often grouped together under one umbrella term, carbon emissions.

[Anjali Grover]

Yeah, and these carbon emissions are so massive, they are measured in gigatons. One gigaton is about 2.2 trillion pounds.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

A gigaton is a lot.

[Anjali Grover]

So if we're serious about making a dent in this problem, the gigatons are what we're after. In this show, we've mapped out where the gigatons of pollution are coming from. And we're bringing you the most impactful solutions to tackle climate change at scale. We're starting with electricity because it's the single largest source of emissions worldwide. Then we're going to tackle deforestation, transportation, carbon removal, and so much more.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Today, we're bringing you a story about the U.S. power grid, because the power grid alone generates a quarter of the United States carbon emissions. And we're going to go to a place that I never. Texas, the state that epitomizes oil and gas, is. Is now the biggest producer of wind in the U.S. let me repeat that. The biggest producer of wind in the United States is Texas. So how did a deep red Texas turn. Well, you could say a shade of green.

[Anjali Grover]

Okay, Ryan, what's the deal with Texas? Did it really turn green?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Well, Ang, I needed to find that out myself. So I called around and I got introduced to Pat Wood. This is the guy in charge of Texas's Public Utility Commission, or PUC for short. This is the agency that regulates utilities. And, Ange, this guy was really cool.

[Anjali Grover]

Like cool for a regulator or cool cool?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Like cool cool? And I wanted to talk to him because back in the 90s, he was the guy who helped write the policy that actually required Texas to build renewable energy. But I also wanted to talk to him because he started out not wanting to do anything with renewable energy. The guy grew up close to the town where oil was discovered. And then his boss was former Republican President George W. Bush. Huh. So I kind of walked into this interview not knowing what to expect. How does this guy become responsible for bringing wind to Texas? And Anjali? It turns out Pat has had a long relationship with energy, something that started out when he was just a kid.

[Pat Wood]

My grandfather was the head of the Gulf Oil Refinery there in Port Arthur for my whole life. I was Tom Hogan's grandson, and my grandmother Hogan. We'd drive through the plants. This was before the Clean Air act went into place. And she'd go, that's good old bread and butter. And I just. I never understood that till I was old enough to understand bread. Butter meant money. But it was like, that doesn't smell like red, and it sure as hell didn't smell like butter. Smells like kind of noxious sulfur. But, you know, just growing up there, I. I assumed every town had their own refinery. I mean, just. It's one of those things I would just never understand. When my friend Jeff would come over from San Mateo, and I always would ask him, well, where's y'?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

All?

[Pat Wood]

What's y' all's refinery? What? You know, what brand are y'? All? It's like, are y' all Gulf or Texaco or Mobile or what? You know, just like, we don't have a refinery. We're in California, Mike. Oh, well, that's weird.

[Anjali Grover]

That is so Texan.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

It's so endearing, his relationship with energy.

[Anjali Grover]

Yeah.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

I think it makes sense, like, why Texans are so connected to it.

[Anjali Grover]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But what's the turning point? When does Pat go from daydreaming about refineries to scaling up wind?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Yeah. So when Pat was in his 30s, he was nominated by the governor, George Bush, to be the head of the Texas Public Utility Commission. In other words, he's the guy in charge of Texas electricity, and that's where he first heard about wind.

[Pat Wood]

Well, in those days, I would be down in Governor Bush's office every, say, three weeks or so to ask him advice about something. And one day, I was in his office talking about something else, and I walked out the door. And back in those days, you wore ties, and I had, of course, suspenders because it was the 90s, and I was a Republican yuppie. And so it was just kind of the thing. But I remember walking out that door like it was yesterday. And Bush goes, hey, Wood. Yes, sir. We like wind. And I looked at him, I was like, what? He goes, you heard me. Now go get smart on it. So I was just, like, honestly depressed because I was like, wind. I mean, that's like Birkenstock and Volvo driving people in California. What do I have to do with that?

[Anjali Grover]

So what, what did Pat have to do with that?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Well, so Pat is now on this quest to make wind energy an important player on the Texas grid. And it turns out Texas had a law that guided Pat in the right direction.

[Pat Wood]

This 95 law said that the utilities have to consult their customers about energy issues.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

And to do this consultation, utilities have this tool called deliberative polling.

[Pat Wood]

And what it does is let's educate people about the issues and ask them their opinion after they're informed of all the pros and cons. So what it was was a three day weekend, like Friday, Saturday, Sunday, 260 some odd customers were there learning about the issues. Beautiful cross section of Texas and age and diversity and ideology. I participated in as a panelist for big groups, small groups. In some of these rooms there was a one way glass that I could look through so I could. It was fascinating, I mean just to see Texas at its best and rawest talking through all these issues. That was like the real world.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Anjali, this is so cool. Deliberative polling is this technique where you get to bring a group of people together and have them debate and learn and then ultimately ask them how they feel about an issue.

[Anjali Grover]

Yeah, it feels strangely democratic. It feels like it's the way it's supposed to all work.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Honestly, I don't think it happens as often as it should.

[Pat Wood]

The funny thing that came out of this, Ryan, was that of all the things that were polled, two things really stood out and rose to the top. One was energy efficiency. Customers really got and understand the need for conservation. And then the second thing, which was of course the total shock to me was renewable energy. Customers in Texas, uniformly in every section of the state, said they loved renewable energy.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

That's amazing. Do you have any stories or examples of, of maybe one of the customers?

[Pat Wood]

I distinctly remember walking outside of the deliberative pole one day and an older man, I remember his name was Jim, I don't remember his last name, was out there having a cigarette and he, I said what are you thinking about things, Jim? And he got that finger and he put it on my chest with that smoke blowing in my eyes right under his hand. He said, Pat, we gotta clean up the goddamn air. It needs to be cleaned up and we need to get more of this renewable energy. And I thought, man, that couldn't be any better said than from Smokin Jim in Beaumont, Texas. It was just one of those moments you'll never forget.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

We need some more goddamn renewable energy. Ryan, Love That I really needed to know. How did Jib get so convinced that renewable energy was important? What made him embrace it?

[Pat Wood]

It's something that hit Jim and me, being from southeast Texas, pretty clearly that, you know, energy's absolutely central to our way of life. And I would look at what resonated with people is the renewable energy's here. It's Texan. It's flowing from God's breath and his shining off his face that's coming to us for free. Aren't we smart enough to take something free and do something good with it? And I really do think that that kind of resonates with people on all parts of the political spectrum, is it's about the technology and the joy of embracing something that is new and is positive, and it's free. And, gosh, why can't we figure that out? And so we did.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

And what did you do with the.

[Pat Wood]

Results at the end of this? I reported the data to the governor.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

What'd he say?

[Pat Wood]

He said, well, what do you think he said? He put those glasses on and looked over it closely and got to the bottom and looked over those glasses because there's those little half glasses. So he kind of looked up. You've probably seen him do this as president. And he said, woody told ya. And he just laughed. Laugh. He does. And I said, well, gosh. He goes, well, this needs to be in our bill. I said, well, what? He goes, they want conservation. They want renewable energy. That needs to be in our bill. So that's when I went out to figure out, what did we do about both?

[Anjali Grover]

So what did Pat do about both? What happened?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Well, it was a lot simpler than I thought. Pat took all this information, and he put it into an energy bill, and it made utilities use a certain amount of renewables.

[Pat Wood]

Senate Bill 7, signed by Governor George W. Bush in 1999, set up the Renewable Portfolio Standard program, which said the state wants to add 2,000 megawatts of renewable energy over the next 10 years.

[Anjali Grover]

So just like that, they pass a bill. No political drama.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

I guess there's always political drama, but Texas got this done before New York, before even California.

[Anjali Grover]

That's insane. I'm still confused, though, as to why Bush signed this into law.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

I know. So I asked him this exact question for George Bush, the governor, what were his motivations? Because in a lot of ways, this took, I imagine, some political capital to do. And so, from his point of view, share what his motivations were.

[Pat Wood]

Governor Bush grew up in Midland, Texas, and Midland is really a very windy spot. I Go there now and again, and it is hair blowing back kind of place. You get off the airplane and there's just a lot of wind. And so he knew that that was a really vibrant resource and that that could actually be captured into electricity. So he knew that just kind of intrinsically, as a West Texan, you know, Bush's instincts obviously were driven by the politics of Texas, which are he's a Republican governor, but he's got kind of a split Senate and a Democratic House. So a lot of stuff got done toward the middle on education, on prisons, on tax reform, and on energy issues.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

What was the moment when that bill passed to see that mandate pass in Texas? What did that mean to you?

[Pat Wood]

You know, it's funny, it wasn't a passion of mine. Renewable energy was not virtuous or all these other things that were, I think, have been attributed to it. I cared about it because I've got this penchant to care about people getting discriminated against. And this was a new industry and a new technology that was being kind of elbowed to the side by the big gas, big coal, and nuke in the traditional utilities. And it's just like, don't. I mean, that's just not who we are. We don't pick on new people. We invite them to the party. So let's level that playing field so these guys can compete. Honestly, Ryan, it wasn't this victory of clean versus traditional. It just was that a new technology got a chance to win or lose based on its merits, and boy, did they ever win.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

So the renewable energy standard got things started. But how did the renewables win, as you say? When did the wind and solar revolution really take off?

[Pat Wood]

The real boom started in about 2001 and 2. And wind was just trucking full speed ahead in its lane because it saw this wide open opportunity in Texas. Lot of land, easy to interconnect, no need to get a regulatory permit, great wind resource. And boom, it just took off. Solar was probably a decade later. And then batteries, which I'm doing now for my day job, is probably decade behind that. And so each of those have started off expensive and then gotten cheaper, dramatically cheaper over kind of short period of time, and gotten to the point where wind and solar now are the two cheapest ways to produce electricity. And I mean, that happened in what, 25 years, Ryan? That's pretty phenomenal.

[Madupa Akinola]

This is.

[Anjali Grover]

This is amazing. One thing I'm missing about all of this is when you generate power, you still have to find a way to transmit it. So how do they do that?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

I definitely asked them about that and Texas had a solution, a brilliant one. So wind is ramping up, solar is ramping up. But how does the state deal with transmission? Does it pass more policies? I mean, you have to get all of this energy from the rural, windy, sunny areas to where people live.

[Pat Wood]

The transmission expansion is a very important piece. I'm glad you identified that because if we don't expand the transmission, we don't get there. So in 2005, the state legislator who I was friends with, David Swinford, called me up and said, hey Pat, I've got this idea. We're building a lot of kind of great wind facilities in, in kind of B minus places on the grid when we've got all this A plus wind that's just sitting there trapped. And so we're going to, we're going to figure out where those A plus areas are and build the infrastructure to get there. So basically the short story on that is if you build it, they will come. We called it Field of dreams. From 2007 to 2000 2013, the transmission project was built $7 billion to connect about 18,000 megawatts of new resources. So the entire west Texas grid effectively got beefed up.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

This is so critical. Basically what Pat was saying is that they went and found the windiest places and said, we're going to first build power lines there. And by doing that, it is incentivize companies to build right next to them. And just like he said, if you build it, they will come.

[Anjali Grover]

I'm sure I sound like a broken record, Ryan, but I can't believe how logical this is. They were thinking ahead. It's shockingly rare.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

It was incredible planning. It was so logical. But it was also expensive. You know, this cost Texans about $300 each.

[Madupa Akinola]

So.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

So I was shocked that there was enough political capital for this plan to pass. So I asked him politically, how on earth did this get passed?

[Pat Wood]

Rick Perry was governor and understood the importance of developing our own resources here. The return by having lower cost renewable electricity on our grid would pay for the $7 billion investment five times over in 10 years. So that's like putting down a nickel to get a quarter. It was very non ideological. It certainly went wrapped in what is kind of now today become this. Renewables are left and you know, polluting fossil fuels are right. It was better for Texas customers who were paying their bills. And oh by the way, it happened to be better for the air. And oh, by the way, it happened to be better for technology. Too. But at the beginning, it was better for the wallet.

[Anjali Grover]

So that's a twist. I was thinking it was just going to be some huge money suck, but it actually is an investment that makes a ton of sense. It has real returns.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Totally. So much of this financially was the way to go.

[Madupa Akinola]

Okay.

[Anjali Grover]

But to be fair, this must have also taken some hand holding, like wind and solar couldn't have just started up on their own. There must have been some upfront costs.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

And that's why I thought Pat might have had another motive. Do you think of yourself as a climate activist being responsible for the largest deployment of clean energy?

[Pat Wood]

I absolutely do not think of myself as a climate activist. I mean, that's just not. I would not. That would. You could name 20 things titles. I wouldn't get that in my top 20.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

Pat, what are you.

[Pat Wood]

Oh, gosh. I mean, I don't. You asked me stuff I've never been asked in my entire life. Wow. Let me just think about that question, Ryan, because I'm going to get it right. What am I? I'm a kid who grew up where a lot of injustice happened. Yeah. I grew up in a town where we. 1970, we desegregated the public schools and my parents were very involved in the desegregation movement from the, from the supportive side. And you know, some of the people in our town moved to all white cities nearby or places where their kids wouldn't have to go to school with minority kids. And, you know, I was taught in my church and by my parents that that's not what Jesus would do. So we stayed in Port Arthur. And, you know, I grew up in a very diverse environment and I love that. And I think that's formed who I am and it's formed my opinions about, you know, we benefit so much more by having a lot of different voices at the table and a lot of different technologies and players around the table. That's what makes us strong. So that's kind of who I am. You know, I guess I'm a social justice warrior of my own type. I laugh at that term thinking of like AOC and those kind of people, but, you know, at the end of the day, I think all the things that I tried to do as a regulator that are having, I think, beneficial impact today derived from the fact that I was hell bent to implement the statute that required non discrimination. And that's what got us where we are today. So I think if you had to say, say, what am I today? I'm just a lawyer who tried to do what the law told me to do on being non discriminatory. And so again, the virtue of this whole story is that the renewable energy happens to be the cheapest energy. And so thank you, God for that win win you gave us because we're going to take it to the mat and go all the way. And you know, I think we have here and I think the rest of the country can do the same.

[Anjali Grover]

Ryan, to be honest, I really didn't think that you were going to tell me anything. I didn't know, but I just, I'm reeling. I can't believe this happened in the 90s. I can't believe it happened in Texas. I, I can't believe it happened under a Republican governor that would go on to become a Republican president.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

I know this like totally shatters every stereotype or preconception of where clean energy gets deployed the best. Seriously, I totally would have expected this to happen in California, someplace else. This really turns my world upside down.

[Anjali Grover]

The other thing that I really can't believe, and Ryan, we work in climate day in, day out. How on earth have we not heard this story?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

That's a great question. Why didn't we hear about this? And I think it's because this has become such a partisan issue. That's the loudest voice in the room. And to be quite honest, you just have to go look at the data and the data itself is what cuts through.

[Anjali Grover]

So I'm still wondering because, Ryan, you started looking out for a story that brought down emissions from the grid. So did Texas succeed in doing this?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

It absolutely did. Their deployment cut emissions from the grid by over a quarter. Wow.

[Anjali Grover]

I'm speechless.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

And you gotta remember, Ange, Texas was growing that entire time.

[Anjali Grover]

This, to me, feels like the most unexpected part of the whole story. So Texas scales up wind and it reduces fossil fuels needed for the grid. This is just so incredible. But Ryan, something's not checking out. Texas is an oil and gas state. So what about all that oil and gas? That's not going away, is it?

[Ryan Panchatsram]

That's right. Texas has got a ton of oil and gas and unfortunately they're drilling more and building more petrochemical plants. So when you look at Texas's overall CO2 levels, not just from the grid, those have been going up. And so Texas has a lot of work to do on electrifying its transportation and cleaning up its industry. But I do think at the end of the day, this is a story about opportunity. You know, I was struck by just Pat's hunger and mentality. Right. You build it, they will come. And somewhere along the way we're still Renewables became a polarizing political topic, but at that point they were too profitable to go away.

[Anjali Grover]

It proves, I think, that clean energy is both a smart business decision and a smart climate decision.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

I think Texas did so many things right and their playbook was simple. Add renewables to the grid and then make sure you connect them. Find the windiest places, find the sunniest places. These are things other states can easily copy. And I did a little research and I found that 32 states have standards like what Texas put into place.

[Anjali Grover]

So just 18 more to go Speed and Scale is a podcast from ted. It's hosted by me, Anjali Grover and Ryan Panchatseram. The episode was produced by Sarah Cragg from Pushkin Industries, production support from Tali Emlyn. This show is edited by Van vanchang and our fact checkers are Julia Dickerson, Kate Williams and Jen Nam. The show is sound, designed and mixed by Hansel Shih. Our executive producers are Daniela Ballarezzo and Constanza Gallardo. Special thanks to Jonathan Mallow and Roxanne hi La.

[Madupa Akinola]

This episode is sponsored by Visit Philadelphia. Philadelphia isn't just the birthplace of democracy, it's where big ideas still take center stage. TED and Visit Philadelphia are teaming up on a special series exploring what democracy looks like today through live events, personal stories and conversations that reflect the power of community. Want to hear more and maybe be part of what's next? Visit visitphilly.comted to learn more. That's visitphilly.com Ted.

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[Pat Wood]

Morning Zoe. Got donuts.

[Anjali Grover]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Pat Wood]

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[Anjali Grover]

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[Pat Wood]

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[Financial Times Sponsor Voice / Sherrell Dorsey]

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[Anjali Grover]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Pat Wood]

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[Anjali Grover]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Ryan Panchatsram]

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