wavePod

How to build your kid's confidence — by leaving them alone (w/ Lenore Skenazy) - How to Be a Better Human | Wave AI Podcast Notes

Back to How to Be a Better Human

How to build your kid's confidence — by leaving them alone (w/ Lenore Skenazy)

How to Be a Better Human

Mon Sep 29 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How to build your kid's confidence — by leaving them alone"

Podcast: How to Be a Better Human
Host: Chris Duffy (TED)
Guest: Lenore Skenazy (Founder, Free Range Kids; President, Let Grow)
Date: September 29, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores how modern parenting’s focus on safety and over-supervision can inhibit a child’s independence, resilience, and confidence. Guest Lenore Skenazy advocates for a return to “free-range” parenting—trusting children with more independence and fewer adult interventions. The conversation covers cultural shifts, the roots of parental anxiety, trust, and practical ways to foster independence in children.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Modern Parenting Has Become Overprotective

Culture of Fear: Parents are bombarded with messages—from media and other parents—that the world is dangerous and that children need constant supervision ([01:22], [05:47]).
- Quote:
“Call it the adult takeover of childhood because ... we are spending way more time with our kids than our parents spent with us, usually helping them do things that they could do on their own.” — Lenore Skenazy [01:48]
Shift from Past Generations: Contrast between previous eras where kids roamed freely and today’s “every moment must be tracked” mindset ([06:06]).
- Quote:
“What happened to being able to live with not seeing and knowing everything your kid is doing every second? That's a huge cultural shift and it's a burden on parents.” — Lenore Skenazy [06:43]

2. The Psychological Impact—On Parents and Children

Anxiety and the Fear of ‘Messing Up’: Both kids and parents feel immense pressure to “get it right,” leading to anxiety and risk aversion ([07:30], [19:54]).
- Quote:
“One of the things is that they are so afraid of messing up that they're sort of retreating.” — Lenore Skenazy [19:54]
Mistrust and Overload: Tracking data (e.g., eating logs, daycare updates) falsely promises comfort, but increases anxiety ([23:23]–[24:52]).

3. Learning Happens Through Experience & Mistakes

Competence Needs Opportunity: Children develop skills, confidence, and agency by facing minor risks and making mistakes independently ([10:33], [14:51], [31:36]).
- Quote:
“There is nothing more exhilarating than being competent ... Why would we take that away from our kids?” — Lenore Skenazy [28:28]
Helicoptering Undermines Growth: Adult intervention limits children’s chances to learn self-sufficiency.

4. Data & Experiments in Independence

Let Grow Experience: Assignments where kids try something new on their own can rapidly build confidence—for both child and parent ([10:33]).
- Example: A child with severe anxiety transforms after daily independent tasks, eventually starting middle school confidently ([12:08]–[14:34]).
Museum Study: Parents told that “struggling is learning” intervened half as much when their kids dressed themselves, showing the power of reframing challenges as opportunities ([30:44], [31:36]).

5. Counteracting Cultural Forces

Social Media & Market Forces: Parenting advice online stokes fear, often for profit ([19:16]–[21:09]).
- Quote:
“The easiest dollar to get from any human being is a dollar of a parent that you've scared that somehow your kid is going to be hurt. Or fall behind.” — Lenore Skenazy [20:47]
Societal Examples: Japanese show “Old Enough” is cited as a cultural contrast—small children do errands alone, reinforcing the point that independence is possible and celebrated elsewhere ([34:01]–[35:00]).

6. Practical Strategies for All Ages

Toddlers: Involve them in household tasks, accept (and expect) mess and inefficiency as part of the learning process ([27:05]).
- Reference to Hunt, Gather, Parent about children’s innate drive to contribute.
Older Kids: Encourage errands and unsupervised tasks; if nervous, team up with a friend or sibling.
Reluctant Parents: Start small. Assign simple independent tasks and gradually increase complexity and autonomy ([29:12]).
Free Play: Essential for development—enriches social skills, creativity, and mental health ([31:37], [33:01]).
- Quote:
“It is the most nutrient dense thing that kids could do for their minds and their bodies and their future selves and their social lives and their joy. Right.” — Lenore Skenazy [32:23]

7. Building Social Trust Beyond Parenting

Small Experiments: For both kids and adults, simple acts like complimenting strangers or letting children complete errands help challenge the “worst first” mindset and build trust ([41:51]).
Testing Reality vs. Fears: Direct experiences—rather than hypotheticals—help reshape beliefs about danger and capability ([41:09]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the importance of stepping back:

“I hope the [TED talk] title they give it is ‘spend less time with your kids’. Because when you do, they will start learning stuff on their own ... That’s how they get to this competence.” — Lenore Skenazy [15:01]
On progress as a society:

“It would be a sort of trust revolution. Like you would start trusting yourself ... your neighbors ... your school ... It would just be sort of breathing easier.” — Lenore Skenazy [21:23]
On learning through failure and imperfection:

“Nobody's perfect. And the idea that there is some straight path and otherwise you're deviating ... it's so wild.” — Lenore Skenazy [20:16]
On cultural differences (with “Old Enough”):

“And it's not because they fail in the way we're scared of. … Actually, I want orange juice instead. So then he goes and buys orange juice instead of the groceries. But that is indicative, right?” — Chris Duffy [34:47]

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:01–04:26 - Introduction & Lenore’s background
04:44 - What is free range parenting?
06:06 - Cultural shifts: From ‘out of sight’ to hyper-tracking
08:21 - Fear culture and the “worst first” mentality
10:33 - Let Grow’s experiments and parental confidence
12:08–14:34 - Therapy and studies on anxiety, competence through independence
19:16–21:09 - Social media, guilt, and the anxieties of modern parenting
23:23–24:52 - Letting go of tracking & learning to trust
26:55–29:22 - Practical steps for different ages
30:44–31:36 - Museum study: Framing struggle as learning
33:01–33:49 - The importance of play and boredom
34:01–35:00 - Japanese TV show and cultural contrast
39:44 - Parental worry is permanent—accept it
41:09–42:58 - Applying trust-building to adults, “reality tests”
43:23–44:20 - Parental shame and societal scrutiny

Conclusion & Final Takeaways

Independence builds confidence in both children and parents, but requires a deliberate push against cultural anxiety and over-supervision.
Trust—not surveillance or perfection—is critical to both parenting and broader social happiness.
Small steps, reframed failures, and practical independence are accessible to all families, not just the “bravest” or most experienced.
“The only way to not jump in is to not be there to jump in.” ([35:00])

For more resources:

Lenore Skenazy’s book: Free Range Kids
Websites: freerangekids.com, letgrow.org

Listen for a refreshing perspective—one that is less about perfect parenting, and more about trusting your children and the world.

Loading summary...

Transcript

A (0:01)

You're listening to how to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy. Let me tell you a quick story about cars. Growing up, my family did not own a car. We took public transportation. So cars always felt foreign and strange and a little bit dangerous to me in my life. Now I do have a car, but I know almost nothing about maintenance. And so when I took my car into Roz, my mechanic, who has also now become my friend, I asked him to help me change the car air filter. And rather than just charge me for the job, Raz had me sit down and watch him do it. And I saw how extremely simple this is. You literally just open one compartment, slide the old filter out, and slide the new filter in. It couldn't be simpler. So then the next time I needed to change the air filter, I did it myself. And I felt so proud. Genuinely. It made my day that I could now change a car air filter all on my own. And that experience is what today's guest, Lenore Skenazy wants all kids to have. Not literally changing the air filter on my old Toyota Camry, but the experience of being given independence and allowed to do things that maybe seem a little bit dangerous or outside of their comfort zone. Lenore argues that modern parenting has become so focused on safety that we are depriving kids of the chance to learn themselves and causing a whole host of other issues. Here's a clip from Lenore's TED Talk.

B (1:22)

We have to realize that we've been sort of brainwashed into believing that anytime our kids aren't with us, they're in terrible danger of being kidnapped by a guy in a white van looking for his puppy. Or also tragic not getting into Harvard, and as a result, terrible. I don't even like to think about it. But the upshot is that we are spending way more time with our kids than our parents spent with us, usually helping them do things that they could do on their own. And call it the adult takeover of childhood because it's so vast that the. What is it? University of Michigan did a study two years ago, and they found that parents want to give their kids independence. They recognize its importance. But the majority of parents of kids age 9 to 11, which is tweens, right? Kind of old, will not let them play at the park with a friend, will not let them walk to a friend's house. And if they're at the store shopping together, only 50% will let their kid go to another aisle. Okay, that's a real statistic. That's University of Michigan so sending your kid from a can of peas is like sending them to namm. Okay, it's just crazy. We gotta get braver than that. We gotta get brave enough to send our kids to the canned food aisle or to the park before their voice changes. So how.

A (2:58)

We'Re gonna be right back with a lot more from Lenoir in just a moment.

B (3:12)

Only Boost Mobile Boost Mobile will give.

B (8:31)

Yeah. So let's talk about the belief and then we'll talk about how to maybe counter the belief. There's a belief a lot of people share that the best way to prepare your child for the world is to tell them, you know, it's a mean world out there, you better be prepared, don't be a sucker. People are out to get you. You know, don't let them take advantage of you. Always be on your guard. And there was this really cool long study and you guys are at. Ted, you'll go look it up, Right. That found that these are called priors, I think, like, what is your prior belief in the world? And parents who tell their kids that think that they're doing them a favor because they're making sure that they won't be patsies, they won't be doormats. Right. They won't be taken advantage of. But there was a giant long term study done of kids who were told that versus kids who were told, you know, most people are pretty nice and yeah, keep your eyes open, but don't be distrustful. You Know you can depend on the world. And the kids who were told, don't be a patsy ended up having like worse relationships, worse jobs, less money, worse health, like physical health and mental health. And so the ironic thing is that, you know, we've been told that it's good to prepare your kid by telling them the worst case scenario. But in fact, that doesn't help them. What I found over the years is that you don't. There's no way to tell anybody. Oh my God. The odds are so small that anything bad will happen to your kid because they always go to the worst case scenario. I call it worst first thinking. You go to the worst case scenario and proceed as if it's likely to happen. So the only thing I've seen that counters that deep fear is being sort of pushed to let your kid do something even before you're ready. Cause you might never be ready. And you say, you know, like, so the Let Grow homework assignment, it's called the Let Grow experience, is when kids get the assignment, go home and do something new on your own with your parents permission, without your parent. So then your kid goes to the store and they come home beaming, you know, cause they got the milk or they got the stick of butter. What is it? The stick of butter and a loaf of bread and a carton of milk like on Sesame Street. Or they totally screwed up and they forgot to get the change and they lost their mitten and it's still okay. Cause even if they screwed up, it was okay.

B (12:08)

We had a psychologist named Camilo Ortiz do a pilot study of independence as actual therapy for kids with a diagnosis of anxiety. And normally he does cognitive behavioral therapy, but he recruited four kids, he recruited four families where the kids had like, not just like, oh, I'm scared, but like, you know, heart palpitations or they couldn't go to school. I mean, sort of off the charts worse than just everyday anxiety. And the way he treated them was the first week he just had the two parents come and he talked to them and he found out like the main reason that they were there. And in one case it was a 9 year old, a 10 year old who was afraid to go upstairs and downstairs in his own home. And in another case it was a girl who was afraid to sleep in her own bed. Nine years old. And then he had the parents come with the kid. And normally in cognitive behavioral therapy it'd be, well, kid, you know, I hear you're afraid to go upstairs in your own house. How about tonight you go up for five minutes and come down and see how that felt. And then tomorrow, next week we'll do 10 minutes. He didn't talk about that fear at all. He didn't mention the deficit or the. And instead he said, you're 10, you know, I've been talking to your parents about how you're probably ready to do more than they let you do. What are some things that you want to do that you haven't done on your own? And in fact, that 10 year old wanted to walk home from school, he wanted to take the Long island railroad, and he wanted to do some other things. And his job was to do one new thing either every day or every other day for Four weeks. And he did these things, and it really changed him to the point where that was, like, over the summer. And then came the new school year, and it was. He was about to go into middle school, which is a new school. And of course, because this is what I say, it's our culture that's sort of driving us crazy. The school sends home, a new school year is looming. And of course your child will be completely flummoxed and confused and probably intimidated because they have to find a locker and they're going to meet new people and there's shiny, slippery floors, whatever it is, you might want to come with them just to ease the transition. And he told his parents, no, I got this. And he went to school by himself that first day. And he came home and he said, I was, like, the only one there without my parents. So to me, it says so many things. It says that a little confidence goes a long way. Knowing that your parents trust you goes a long way. And then you have a culture undermining you every step of the way. Pretending that going to a new school is so hard that no child should ever have to do it without, you know, parental guidance, which is not true. We can all go to a new school and make our way.

B (21:23)

In the end, I think it would be a sort of trust revolution. Like you would start trusting yourself. Evolution has created a way for kids to get ahead. Even if you weren't speaking 3 million words to them at dinner tonight, you would trust your neighbors because your kid would be walking to school and you'd realize that they were fine. And in fact, you know, two doors down, the lady gave them a ball or whatever. So it would be trusting the school that you don't have to see pictures from them every day. You don't have to get a report from them every hour, how the kid is doing, and be trusting the camp. You don't have to see if your kid is smiling at the cookout. It would just be sort of breathing easier. And the big lie, or one of the big lies of our culture is that the more information you have, the more easier you can breathe. Right? Oh, you know, you'll be tracking your child. Finally, you'll have peace of mind. No, my mom had peace of mind because she trusted me to walk to school and trusted the neighbors not to kill me and eat me. Right? And information is sort of the opposite of trust. So this is an unformed idea, but Adam and Eve are in the Garden of Eden, and a snake comes along and says, look, you can track your kids, right? Right. It's like, oh, that'll give me pe. Yes, you'll have knowledge. You'll know. Maybe this happens with your kid, too. As a toddler, the daycare center sends a report at the end of the day that tells you when they peed and whether it was number one, number two, or number one, and how much they ate. And all this superfluous, completely unnecessary information, unless your kid was really ill and you were getting information from the NICU on, like, this worked for them, or finally, they could eat something. But if. But treating everything as if it's so close to death that you better have every bit of information on, are they surviving? Are they thriving? Is a really radically crazy way to look at childhood and your kid, and it drives you crazy. The same way if your kid was really ill. And so to be able to step back from that is the only way you can breathe easier. The only option for us to feel confident and hopeful as parents is. Is trust or faith or whatever you want to call it, other than constant information and constant intervention. And we're being told the opposite.